Yeah this TFO has always and I mean always was a hard one to get teams to do because we all are mostly here for star trek and there really isn't any try hard aspect to it where everyone knows the ins and outs of the game mechanics although I do. The thing that would put it up for removal or rework is that this was setup for team work but a lot of people still do not understand how it works. You knock the borg off the platforms, press f all at the same time, and then move to the next one. Through medication and time I've just learned to live with it but this is one of the only TFO's for ground that cannot be carried by one person just because of the aspect of the consoles. I am pretty much sure that it'll get reworked where it might get a simpler version of them putting a capture area for each one so they just have to stand there. At the very minimum make it where its simply easy to convey to other players who may not understand half of what is going on. Also one thing I would suggest they do to change it make it a bit more lively than just rescuing a person about to be assimilated is make it where they do not beam out. Make it to where when you save one they follow you around but they present a method that they can use to help rescue the next person. Instead of those invisible triggers that todays players have no idea are there that trigger the assimilation. Plus simple mechanics like the default X for ground is a 33% damage increase from aiming and easy for me to see when players are not using mechanics that they should be using. Although is why I don't have a problem with how kit modules can be super OP because you need them for the hard carry.
Oh, so that's the solution then? Since it's set up for team work, that's enough of a reason to remove it or revamp it?
Seriously? The problem is not that it requires team work - thank god at least SOMETHING in this game still does! - it's that people are simply too lazy to want to LEARN how to do stuff that's not "pew pew pew... done".
But please, by all means... let them revamp it making it so that you need only one people to do EVERYTHING.
Let's make even this last bit of really engaging content just as mind-dumbing as the rest.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
You are not asking for video proof of a successful IGA run here, are you?
No, I mean pics of you WALKING across the gaps.
I was literally walking from cube to cube to get across.. you don't even have to hit the jump button because the cubes are so close together.
The platforms in the boss room have different heights. Jumping is only required if you need to gain height. You can safely cross the rest when in running mode without falling into the acid.
Back at the day when I was new at that map I remember how impressed I was when I saw others doing that part in IGA. Then I tried, I fell and tried again. I dare to say I fell more often into the acid than anybody else around here in sum. A couple of IGAs later I could do it without falling in the acid though. Sea can do it too, so can you. Just give it a try, it’s not at all hard once you get used to it. And even if you fall it should not pose a problem, that's what a team is for. You only loose for not trying, thats what makes the borg maps different from the rest in STO.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
You are not asking for video proof of a successful IGA run here, are you?
No, I mean pics of you WALKING across the gaps.
I was literally walking from cube to cube to get across.. you don't even have to hit the jump button because the cubes are so close together.
msg me ingame, we play iga and i'll show you the parts you could just walk down without jumping. basically its from a higher => lower ground at some locations (not all tho).
the answer will be most likely:
"it does not meet our standards for queues"
Jesse Heinig talked about that while watching Kael get the TRIBBLE kicked out of him by Borg. All you're gonna get is a repeat, possibly differently worded.
and we all know, the new way of doing queues is to literaly afk it all the time, so warp in, launch pets, tap out of the game and come back to get the reward ^^
Name one queue where that ACTUALLY works.
starbase 1 as example.
the new kobayashi maru event map works well too with not doing much at all
for operation riposte you just need to kill the last group (at least for advanced)
phavo ground (you just need to activate the first crystals and kill the last group, at least for advanced)
phavo space + draanur gauntlet (you just need to kill the first group, up to advanced level)
days of doom (you need to kill the first 2 groups than wait for the auto win, works on normal not sure about advanced, never tried)
mycelial network (you need to talk to the tardigrade and do the first jump than wait till the end to kill the boss+use consoles)
battle at binary stars (you dont need to do anything, all is timegated)
This would imply I do nothing in ISA but sit around and never attack anything, which is complete hogwash.
Oh you were doing something I get that, you were just not doing as much as you could have!
ISA is a map where your actions (DPS and whatever) matter every second of a match. If you percept what you experience as easy you could have done more, especially compared to the others in your team.
All extreme ISA runs I did were extremely hard for me! The under-geared one where my terri-bad team and I had trouble to get it done within the timer, the mixed team in which we barely managed the optional directive and the super great run with the DPS league admin team helping me to get 657k DPS in 39 seconds there.
All those ISA were hard, in all those runs my hands were almost shaking and after all those runs I took some pride in what I did.
All those ISA runs I found easy on the other hand, I was the one not doing enough or at least not doing as good as I could have.
It's not the map thats easy, it's you taking it easy.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
1:27:20 - We are not necessary going to promote material that is not up to our standard. (Regarding old mission wrappers you could still access retired missions from, no mention of Infected: Manus)
1:27:50 - Should Fix respawn positio of Infected: Manus if you die
1:28:20 - 1:29:00 - Jesse Groans about borg ground TFOs, still very long, still very old content somewhat clunky. Not well explained.
1:42:50 - General low key comment about last boss area. If you die and res yourself a shield blocks you unless the entire team dies.
1:43:11 - Pulled some missions from Random TFO system because they were exceeding "annoying" (kael's statement). Jesse states (Khitomer and Cure ground were also pulled from random system for a period)
1:43:55 - Some borg ground queues if you dont have a team "Johnny on the spot" could take up to 45 mins. Jesse prefers Streamlined TFO friendly way (Borg ground TFOs if redesigned would be changed to this)
1:50:13 - Kael goes to Jesse with a handsake "It SUCKS, FIX IT!" (They do laugh afterwards)
No timestamp for the next section as i am a bit tired watching the video.
Jesse makes a statement he doesnt like jumping puzzles. Specifically he would prefer if he had to have them, he would design it as if you can do the puzzle ALL GOOD. If you cant it doesnt stop you from doing the missions and you can still continue on (I facepalmed at this comment).
I think i got everything relevant. Might have missed something (hopefully not)
Just looking at this, it could seem to an outsider that anything that makes a challenge might not be viewed in a good light currently by the Cryptic devs (anything below elite level maybe). This does not make me feel comfortable at all.
Me neither and that’s the “we all get along just fine because we go to Star Trek conventions wearing costumes and all” way to put it. From a strict gaming perspective it feels like a total declaration of bankruptcy.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Just looking at this, it could seem to an outsider that anything that makes a challenge might not be viewed in a good light currently by the Cryptic devs (anything below elite level maybe). This does not make me feel comfortable at all.
Agreed. When was it said that a game should only be "oh, you can't do it? cool no problem... just wait out the timer and you'll be good to go anyway!"
If that's the whole point, then remove anything that's not normal from the random, reinstate the queued people counter for advanced and elites and be DONE with it.
That's why there are multiple difficulties: to allow everyone to have fun (without stress) while also getting rewarded for what they can actually do. It's not a bad thing if you never go above normal, just as it's not a bad thing if you never go below advanced.
Elite queues being removed (and never reintroduced again), advanced stuff getting removed from the random pool of queues, auto-win content being constantly added is doing nothing but punishing those players that, for whatever reason, actually enjoy a challenge.
At some point, enough must be enough.
And yeah, maybe the game is actually going great, number-wise. But what about quality? Quality is not just "ohhh, shiny!", nor it can be solely defined as "bug-free and running well".
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
The game is made for the players, the players aren't made for the game.
You can say a million times that the maps aren't hard, that everyone should be able to do it if they just applied themselves a bit. But they don't. You're not going to change all the players.
But you can change the map. Or you can ensure that only players that do all that find the map, and the rest can ignore it easily.
Cryptic is obviously doing the right thing here, at least for the short term. I hope they'll revamp the missions at some point.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Someone was complaining about dps channels having elitism but I think this thread is giving far more evidence towards a group of other people having elitism.
Apparently we are not allowed to criticize the precious Manus stf, it's clearly flawless and a form of perfection according to this guy, why in fact we need to put it in a museum.
Sarcasm aside listen. I understand what you want from this game. You want teamwork and challenges like you might find in other mmos, hell maybe you even want raid, but that's just not going to happen. Manus is a dead relic from a forgotten past. All the Borg stfs on ground are. Adaptation, poor design, wide open maps with repetitive objectives and nothing filling them why it's a surprise it took the dev's this long to be more open about them. They need a serious revamp.
The jumping puzzle isn't difficult, and yeah some parts you can just walk over. I pretty much never fall into the acid. But that's not the point. The point is, these maps are either as old as the game itself or almost as old. They have stayed pretty much the same other than being converted from their story focused raid form to these short dungeon like missions. But again they are antiques.
Ohhh, yeah. We're all elitists TRIBBLE just because we expect people to want to KNOW how to play a game that they supposedly like!
Adaptation can be easily overcome by at least 3 different weapons in the game, with one of them being easily crafted.
Poor design... well, define "poor design".
Wide open maps. Uhm.. what?
Repetitive Objectives. Is that something that's not easily found in ANY other queue? Hell, in any of the episodes? How's that's one of the "bad things" about this particular set of queues is beside me.
Nothing filling them... uhm, again. What?
You're right, though. Anything more challengin that spamming more than one button is not gonna happen.
The answer as to the "why" can be found in your own post.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
]If there's a harder jumping puzzle in the game show it to me. I have never seen anything even close to as hard as this one.
The Mission 'Dust to Dust' has a harder jumping puzzle by far.
You mean the one where you can just run into the pit repeatedly to trigger respawn points and not shoot a single target or jump even once? Oh also the Dust to Dust thing doesn't reset or have a timer for completion.
Actually Dust to Dust doesn't have a jumping puzzle. The platforms are timed but you don't have to jump if you shoot things in the right order, and they might be too wide to jump across too. There is, however a timer for the accolades in that mission.
I played through it a week ago for the first time in probably 5 years, and managed to get a ton of the accolades speeding through that section. I totally forgot there were any accolades for it.
So I'd say Infected is harder than Dust to Dust because you're being shot at much of the time and jumping is always awkward when you do it because you have to have a sense of how far you can actually jump and the timing of it including potential lag. I mean I've played plenty of games where I'm sure I timed the jump right but no I just run off the edge, so I do at least sympathize with the jumping difficulties. However it is also entirely possible to rez people in the acid and have them get to a ramp, and always has been, so as long as not everyone can't jump its not a huge deal.
It's pretty clear to see now that arguing IGA with you is pointless because you don't understand the subject matter. You just don't know this map and are arguing with me out of pure desire to hold to your indefensible points and it's starting to show. Anyone that's run IGA more then two or three times knows exactly what I am talking about, I am not going to try and take pictures of a character walking in a TFO.
If you consider IGA to be difficult content, then that's fine.. I respect that. Not all players are good at the exact same things, maybe one person has a hard time with Jumping, another has a hard time with timing, others with something else.. what's hard for one person might not be for another and vice versa. I can tell you haven't run IGA very much, maybe you're just using Kael's video as the measuring stick, I don't know.. but the map isn't as hard as you have been led to believe.
All in all, it's been pulled from Randoms and Cryptic is unlikely to reverse it so the point is moot. I do however, encourage you to attempt to run the map with a group so you can see for yourself that the map isn't very difficult at all. Once you have run it a few times, you'll see that it's all just a big blow up over nothing. The map is dated yes, it needs a facelift and it's far from a perfect mission, but the problems with IGA are not it's difficulty.
Give it a shot sometime with even an average or better group and you'll see what we mean. You'll have no trouble getting through it and you will likely agree it's not a difficult map.
The game is made for the players, the players aren't made for the game.
You can say a million times that the maps aren't hard, that everyone should be able to do it if they just applied themselves a bit. But they don't. You're not going to change all the players.
But you can change the map. Or you can ensure that only players that do all that find the map, and the rest can ignore it easily.
Cryptic is obviously doing the right thing here, at least for the short term. I hope they'll revamp the missions at some point.
Completely wrong. A game gets the players it serves. When content you actually had to play yourself like the ground STFs was the standard, everyone could play them. People whining IGE was too hard and refusing to accept advice would've been told to go play Normal then.
As Cryptic turns the game further into an Easy Mode sandbox that plays itself (often literally), players who would want to play a real game get bored and go away. Leaving mostly people looking to just run around collecting free stuff, because that's all the content being offfered.
And this is obviously more of the same. GTFO challenge and accomplishment, welcome frolicking like toddlers for a few minutes before Mom says "everyone wins" and hands out cookies no matter what anybody was doing.
Just looking at this, it could seem to an outsider that anything that makes a challenge might not be viewed in a good light currently by the Cryptic devs (anything below elite level maybe). This does not make me feel comfortable at all.
Agreed. When was it said that a game should only be "oh, you can't do it? cool no problem... just wait out the timer and you'll be good to go anyway!"
In 2015 when they removed the fail conditions.
If that's the whole point, then remove anything that's not normal from the random, reinstate the queued people counter for advanced and elites and be DONE with it.
The thing is, there is a separate Normal random queue already. But Cryptic was not willing to tell players who had trouble in Advanced to play Normal in 2015 with the fail condition debacle and they still aren't.
That's why there are multiple difficulties: to allow everyone to have fun (without stress) while also getting rewarded for what they can actually do. It's not a bad thing if you never go above normal, just as it's not a bad thing if you never go below advanced.
I agree. Unfortunately Cryptic doesn't. They've decided that everyone should play Advanced, and everyone should win it every time.
Elite queues being removed (and never reintroduced again), advanced stuff getting removed from the random pool of queues, auto-win content being constantly added is doing nothing but punishing those players that, for whatever reason, actually enjoy a challenge.
Pretty much. I mean, I don't mind picking up freebie rewards in itself, but without some challenge to use them against they seem worthless. The only reason to even bother to pick anything up is limited-time stuff that goes away after the event, and even then only for pure completionism.
At some point, enough must be enough.
I'm sure when everything wins itself 100% automatically without players lifting a finger, people will stop complaining it's too hard.
They'll whine the wait for the autowin is too long, instead.
You know what? You're absolutely right.
And I don't know whether to cry or to laugh
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Jesse makes a statement he doesnt like jumping puzzles. Specifically he would prefer if he had to have them, he would design it as if you can do the puzzle ALL GOOD. If you cant it doesnt stop you from doing the missions and you can still continue on (I facepalmed at this comment).
I think i got everything relevant. Might have missed something (hopefully not)
Just looking at this, it could seem to an outsider that anything that makes a challenge might not be viewed in a good light currently by the Cryptic devs (anything below elite level maybe). This does not make me feel comfortable at all.
To be more specific, Jesse said that the game engine wasn't designed with jumping puzzles in mind(he specifically compared it to Assassin's Creed), and that he feels that jumping puzzles don't work well in STO.
Also very few parts of the game actually require jumping at all(possibly because of that thing I mentioned previously), so for the most part it's not a skill players need to play the game. Expecting people to be good at jumping isn't a safe assumption when most missions don't ask players to do that and the few that do have very little jumping.
Jesse makes a statement he doesnt like jumping puzzles. Specifically he would prefer if he had to have them, he would design it as if you can do the puzzle ALL GOOD. If you cant it doesnt stop you from doing the missions and you can still continue on (I facepalmed at this comment).
I think i got everything relevant. Might have missed something (hopefully not)
Just looking at this, it could seem to an outsider that anything that makes a challenge might not be viewed in a good light currently by the Cryptic devs (anything below elite level maybe). This does not make me feel comfortable at all.
To be more specific, Jesse said that the game engine wasn't designed with jumping puzzles in mind(he specifically compared it to Assassin's Creed), and that he feels that jumping puzzles don't work well in STO.
Also very few parts of the game actually require jumping at all(possibly because of that thing I mentioned previously), so for the most part it's not a skill players need to play the game. Expecting people to be good at jumping isn't a safe assumption when most missions don't ask players to do that and the few that do have very little jumping.
and in normal you dont have to jump because you have energy field bridges active
so its just for advanced. and that there is a higher requirement to do for an advanced difficulty level is just ok
oh and you asked for one mission you could afk, i mentioned a few more than one. any statement on that "issue"?
Well, I'm sorry to say but comparing STO to Assassin's Creed is one of the most hilarious things I've ever heard in my life.
And that's a poor excuse. You have people that can do it and those that can't. It's not a matter of "game engine". It's a matter of who can and can't, because if it wasn't designed for jumping "puzzles" (what puzzles is there in Infected I'm still waiting to know, btw) then EVERYONE would fail.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
I'll see your Operation Repost, and raise you a Starbase 1 defense. You can AFK that on elite even, while successfully watching the staff of the starbase putter away to safety, and have it be successful. Or Mirror Invasion(you just wait out the timer until the final dreadnought pops up, then hit spacebar and grease the ship). The Peril over Pahvo/Lukari satellite defense can be AFK'd after the first group. Hell, there's channels bloated with players that are designed to host AFK runs. And Pahvo Dysentery(the one with the crystals and the MU knuckleheads at the end).
There's a base of what rewards you get. The optionals tack onto that. But a successful run gives you the base amount. TFOs like these play themselves pretty much, because the optionals offer a pittance boost in reward, and you just have to wait out the clock. The endless waves don't offer much, since loot drops are wonky, there's no massive ship mastery gain.
Except this entire post is wrong for multiple reasons
On all difficulties of Starbase 1, you have to destroy all of the Klingon ships for the next wave to appear.
Even on advanced, the Klingons ships will easily destroy the fleeing from SB1 long before they reach the warp out zone.
On Mirror Invasion, if you don't do anything but kill the Dred you get only the participation reward of 10 marks. Not to 70+ you can get if you actually do anything.
If you AFK Pervil of Pahvo you will, again, only get like 10 marks since all the shield generators will lose all their HP, and you will kill zero dreds, which are the source of all the marks in that TFO.
On Pahvo Dissension, again, if you fail to purify any of the crystals, defeat the captains, or prevent the roots from being corrupted, you, again, only get the 10 mark participation bonus.
Its actually kind of funny. In your attempt to disprove my point, you actually proved it entirely. If you do nothing but AFK in TFOs you get basically no rewards since all but like 10 marks of a TFO reward are tied to actually playing the TFO in question.
Your point didn't prove anything. You want to know why? Because in SB-1, the Klingork ships treat yours as higher priority. Just like in Mirror Invasion, they've got a tracking "aggro" range of around 25km. Go into cloak, and they'll drift around aimlessly, attempting to snoop you out, but unable to. Run out to a range of 25km or so, and they'll more or less do the same thing. Leaving the putter ships alone. And guess what? If you don't kill that wave, there won't be any waves to instantly respawn behind it. All of this is while eating up the clock. You don't have to destroy all the waves. If you wait long enough, they'll go away. Since you live in an ivory tower bubble, you haven't branched out to the player enclaves that come up w/ strategies such as this. While you live in denial, I can collect full rewards from SB-1 Elite AFK premade runs if I chose to run that drek of a TFO.
Here's a reason why the TFOs play themselves. That you aren't able to grasp. The clock continues to march, instead of the TFO failing and ending at the first failed optional. Enemy ship respawns are tied to you clearing out the previous wave. If you don't do that, you can just jerk the enemy wave around, or go sneaky and have them mosey about while checking facebook, or posting on twatter how you think the "jumping puzzle" in Infected Manus is too hard, or watching "How to STO" videos on youtube.
You actually get more marks by NOT going tryhard in higher difficulties of Mirror Invasion. Why? because the more portals you close, the more you fiddle around with the satellite pylons, the quicker that enemy portals spawn, the quicker that they burp out ship groups, the stronger the enemies become(with vector ships, escort carriers, point defense escorts, command cruisers, Galaxy/Odyssey class ships making an appearance to replace the frigates and lowly science vessels). If someone has a light and crunchy ship, or isn't geared to the gills, or isn't putting out huge amounts of DPS/CC, they'll fall behind. The TFO pretty much plays itself, ever since it had the timegate with everspawning portals change. No matter how many you close. The previous iteration actually gave you a breather if you reached a portal closure threshold in enough time. Leave the initial portals alone, and it's a spawn of gnats, that end up taking MUCH longer to chew through the shielding and hull of Waffle Station.
For Dranuur Gauntlet/Peril over Pahvo, even the ending dialogue tells you that you're successful when you wait out the clock. There's no "Mission Failed" dialogue at the end. Unlike in a TFO like BOTSE if you don't do the objectives. Or if you don't destroy the ships inside the timer with the red alerts.
A participation reward isn't given for failure. It's given for showing up. And in the SB-1 difficulties, you can get full rewards just for showing up. Because Cryptic pretty much removed failure conditions from the game.
You admitted in the past that you don't ever come across AFKers, certainly never AFK premades. You haven't experienced how much greener the grass is on the other side of the wall, because you haven't peeked through the holes in the wall.
Here's another one that doesn't have a fail and boot condition to it, that you can AFK in entirety. Azure Nebula Rescue.
Because Cryptic pretty much removed failure conditions from the game.
It really cannot be said more clearly.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
if you fail/not win a queue you just get 10 marks for participation.
Which is exactly what you get in Operation Riposte if you don't complete any of the objectives.
if you fail you will just get 10 marks. no rnd box, no daily bonus. if you're doing exactly nothing, you get the daily bonus and rnd box, not sure abot the marks havent done it for a long time
Uhm, since when "getting as much marks as possible by completing the optional" equals "NOT failing the queue"?
If I decide to AFK SB1 in advanced/elite, I'd still get the marks (and the daily bonus if applicable), plus the canister AND the r&d box. By all instance and purpose, I would complete the queue. I simply wouldn't get as much marks out of it as possible.
Again, I fail to see how not completing optionals means the queue has failed...
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
STO does not have nor has ever had any "jumping puzzles." It has a few places (such as IGA) where players must jump over gaps, none of which are anything remotely puzzle-like. Just simple jumps over gaps.
Comments
Seriously? The problem is not that it requires team work - thank god at least SOMETHING in this game still does! - it's that people are simply too lazy to want to LEARN how to do stuff that's not "pew pew pew... done".
But please, by all means... let them revamp it making it so that you need only one people to do EVERYTHING.
Let's make even this last bit of really engaging content just as mind-dumbing as the rest.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
The platforms in the boss room have different heights. Jumping is only required if you need to gain height. You can safely cross the rest when in running mode without falling into the acid.
Back at the day when I was new at that map I remember how impressed I was when I saw others doing that part in IGA. Then I tried, I fell and tried again. I dare to say I fell more often into the acid than anybody else around here in sum. A couple of IGAs later I could do it without falling in the acid though. Sea can do it too, so can you. Just give it a try, it’s not at all hard once you get used to it. And even if you fall it should not pose a problem, that's what a team is for. You only loose for not trying, thats what makes the borg maps different from the rest in STO.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
msg me ingame, we play iga and i'll show you the parts you could just walk down without jumping. basically its from a higher => lower ground at some locations (not all tho).
ingame: @Felisean
starbase 1 as example.
the new kobayashi maru event map works well too with not doing much at all
for operation riposte you just need to kill the last group (at least for advanced)
phavo ground (you just need to activate the first crystals and kill the last group, at least for advanced)
phavo space + draanur gauntlet (you just need to kill the first group, up to advanced level)
days of doom (you need to kill the first 2 groups than wait for the auto win, works on normal not sure about advanced, never tried)
mycelial network (you need to talk to the tardigrade and do the first jump than wait till the end to kill the boss+use consoles)
battle at binary stars (you dont need to do anything, all is timegated)
is that enough?
ingame: @Felisean
Oh you were doing something I get that, you were just not doing as much as you could have!
ISA is a map where your actions (DPS and whatever) matter every second of a match. If you percept what you experience as easy you could have done more, especially compared to the others in your team.
All extreme ISA runs I did were extremely hard for me! The under-geared one where my terri-bad team and I had trouble to get it done within the timer, the mixed team in which we barely managed the optional directive and the super great run with the DPS league admin team helping me to get 657k DPS in 39 seconds there.
All those ISA were hard, in all those runs my hands were almost shaking and after all those runs I took some pride in what I did.
All those ISA runs I found easy on the other hand, I was the one not doing enough or at least not doing as good as I could have.
It's not the map thats easy, it's you taking it easy.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
You might be interested @felisean if you havent seen it already or werent there
Timestamp (Source - https://www.twitch.tv/videos/492462937)
1:27:20 - We are not necessary going to promote material that is not up to our standard. (Regarding old mission wrappers you could still access retired missions from, no mention of Infected: Manus)
1:27:50 - Should Fix respawn positio of Infected: Manus if you die
1:28:20 - 1:29:00 - Jesse Groans about borg ground TFOs, still very long, still very old content somewhat clunky. Not well explained.
1:42:50 - General low key comment about last boss area. If you die and res yourself a shield blocks you unless the entire team dies.
1:43:11 - Pulled some missions from Random TFO system because they were exceeding "annoying" (kael's statement). Jesse states (Khitomer and Cure ground were also pulled from random system for a period)
1:43:55 - Some borg ground queues if you dont have a team "Johnny on the spot" could take up to 45 mins. Jesse prefers Streamlined TFO friendly way (Borg ground TFOs if redesigned would be changed to this)
1:50:13 - Kael goes to Jesse with a handsake "It SUCKS, FIX IT!" (They do laugh afterwards)
No timestamp for the next section as i am a bit tired watching the video.
Jesse makes a statement he doesnt like jumping puzzles. Specifically he would prefer if he had to have them, he would design it as if you can do the puzzle ALL GOOD. If you cant it doesnt stop you from doing the missions and you can still continue on (I facepalmed at this comment).
I think i got everything relevant. Might have missed something (hopefully not)
Just looking at this, it could seem to an outsider that anything that makes a challenge might not be viewed in a good light currently by the Cryptic devs (anything below elite level maybe). This does not make me feel comfortable at all.
Me neither and that’s the “we all get along just fine because we go to Star Trek conventions wearing costumes and all” way to put it. From a strict gaming perspective it feels like a total declaration of bankruptcy.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Agreed. When was it said that a game should only be "oh, you can't do it? cool no problem... just wait out the timer and you'll be good to go anyway!"
If that's the whole point, then remove anything that's not normal from the random, reinstate the queued people counter for advanced and elites and be DONE with it.
That's why there are multiple difficulties: to allow everyone to have fun (without stress) while also getting rewarded for what they can actually do. It's not a bad thing if you never go above normal, just as it's not a bad thing if you never go below advanced.
Elite queues being removed (and never reintroduced again), advanced stuff getting removed from the random pool of queues, auto-win content being constantly added is doing nothing but punishing those players that, for whatever reason, actually enjoy a challenge.
At some point, enough must be enough.
And yeah, maybe the game is actually going great, number-wise. But what about quality? Quality is not just "ohhh, shiny!", nor it can be solely defined as "bug-free and running well".
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
You can say a million times that the maps aren't hard, that everyone should be able to do it if they just applied themselves a bit. But they don't. You're not going to change all the players.
But you can change the map. Or you can ensure that only players that do all that find the map, and the rest can ignore it easily.
Cryptic is obviously doing the right thing here, at least for the short term. I hope they'll revamp the missions at some point.
Apparently we are not allowed to criticize the precious Manus stf, it's clearly flawless and a form of perfection according to this guy, why in fact we need to put it in a museum.
Sarcasm aside listen. I understand what you want from this game. You want teamwork and challenges like you might find in other mmos, hell maybe you even want raid, but that's just not going to happen. Manus is a dead relic from a forgotten past. All the Borg stfs on ground are. Adaptation, poor design, wide open maps with repetitive objectives and nothing filling them why it's a surprise it took the dev's this long to be more open about them. They need a serious revamp.
The jumping puzzle isn't difficult, and yeah some parts you can just walk over. I pretty much never fall into the acid. But that's not the point. The point is, these maps are either as old as the game itself or almost as old. They have stayed pretty much the same other than being converted from their story focused raid form to these short dungeon like missions. But again they are antiques.
You're right, though. Anything more challengin that spamming more than one button is not gonna happen.
The answer as to the "why" can be found in your own post.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Actually Dust to Dust doesn't have a jumping puzzle. The platforms are timed but you don't have to jump if you shoot things in the right order, and they might be too wide to jump across too. There is, however a timer for the accolades in that mission.
I played through it a week ago for the first time in probably 5 years, and managed to get a ton of the accolades speeding through that section. I totally forgot there were any accolades for it.
So I'd say Infected is harder than Dust to Dust because you're being shot at much of the time and jumping is always awkward when you do it because you have to have a sense of how far you can actually jump and the timing of it including potential lag. I mean I've played plenty of games where I'm sure I timed the jump right but no I just run off the edge, so I do at least sympathize with the jumping difficulties. However it is also entirely possible to rez people in the acid and have them get to a ramp, and always has been, so as long as not everyone can't jump its not a huge deal.
It's pretty clear to see now that arguing IGA with you is pointless because you don't understand the subject matter. You just don't know this map and are arguing with me out of pure desire to hold to your indefensible points and it's starting to show. Anyone that's run IGA more then two or three times knows exactly what I am talking about, I am not going to try and take pictures of a character walking in a TFO.
If you consider IGA to be difficult content, then that's fine.. I respect that. Not all players are good at the exact same things, maybe one person has a hard time with Jumping, another has a hard time with timing, others with something else.. what's hard for one person might not be for another and vice versa. I can tell you haven't run IGA very much, maybe you're just using Kael's video as the measuring stick, I don't know.. but the map isn't as hard as you have been led to believe.
All in all, it's been pulled from Randoms and Cryptic is unlikely to reverse it so the point is moot. I do however, encourage you to attempt to run the map with a group so you can see for yourself that the map isn't very difficult at all. Once you have run it a few times, you'll see that it's all just a big blow up over nothing. The map is dated yes, it needs a facelift and it's far from a perfect mission, but the problems with IGA are not it's difficulty.
Give it a shot sometime with even an average or better group and you'll see what we mean. You'll have no trouble getting through it and you will likely agree it's not a difficult map.
As Cryptic turns the game further into an Easy Mode sandbox that plays itself (often literally), players who would want to play a real game get bored and go away. Leaving mostly people looking to just run around collecting free stuff, because that's all the content being offfered.
And this is obviously more of the same. GTFO challenge and accomplishment, welcome frolicking like toddlers for a few minutes before Mom says "everyone wins" and hands out cookies no matter what anybody was doing.
<yawn>
The thing is, there is a separate Normal random queue already. But Cryptic was not willing to tell players who had trouble in Advanced to play Normal in 2015 with the fail condition debacle and they still aren't.
I agree. Unfortunately Cryptic doesn't. They've decided that everyone should play Advanced, and everyone should win it every time.
Pretty much. I mean, I don't mind picking up freebie rewards in itself, but without some challenge to use them against they seem worthless. The only reason to even bother to pick anything up is limited-time stuff that goes away after the event, and even then only for pure completionism.
I'm sure when everything wins itself 100% automatically without players lifting a finger, people will stop complaining it's too hard.
They'll whine the wait for the autowin is too long, instead.
no, because they might not know that its an auto win and they stil get killed and stuff like that
ingame: @Felisean
And I don't know whether to cry or to laugh
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Also very few parts of the game actually require jumping at all(possibly because of that thing I mentioned previously), so for the most part it's not a skill players need to play the game. Expecting people to be good at jumping isn't a safe assumption when most missions don't ask players to do that and the few that do have very little jumping.
My character Tsin'xing
and in normal you dont have to jump because you have energy field bridges active
so its just for advanced. and that there is a higher requirement to do for an advanced difficulty level is just ok
oh and you asked for one mission you could afk, i mentioned a few more than one. any statement on that "issue"?
ingame: @Felisean
And that's a poor excuse. You have people that can do it and those that can't. It's not a matter of "game engine". It's a matter of who can and can't, because if it wasn't designed for jumping "puzzles" (what puzzles is there in Infected I'm still waiting to know, btw) then EVERYONE would fail.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Your point didn't prove anything. You want to know why? Because in SB-1, the Klingork ships treat yours as higher priority. Just like in Mirror Invasion, they've got a tracking "aggro" range of around 25km. Go into cloak, and they'll drift around aimlessly, attempting to snoop you out, but unable to. Run out to a range of 25km or so, and they'll more or less do the same thing. Leaving the putter ships alone. And guess what? If you don't kill that wave, there won't be any waves to instantly respawn behind it. All of this is while eating up the clock. You don't have to destroy all the waves. If you wait long enough, they'll go away. Since you live in an ivory tower bubble, you haven't branched out to the player enclaves that come up w/ strategies such as this. While you live in denial, I can collect full rewards from SB-1 Elite AFK premade runs if I chose to run that drek of a TFO.
Here's a reason why the TFOs play themselves. That you aren't able to grasp. The clock continues to march, instead of the TFO failing and ending at the first failed optional. Enemy ship respawns are tied to you clearing out the previous wave. If you don't do that, you can just jerk the enemy wave around, or go sneaky and have them mosey about while checking facebook, or posting on twatter how you think the "jumping puzzle" in Infected Manus is too hard, or watching "How to STO" videos on youtube.
You actually get more marks by NOT going tryhard in higher difficulties of Mirror Invasion. Why? because the more portals you close, the more you fiddle around with the satellite pylons, the quicker that enemy portals spawn, the quicker that they burp out ship groups, the stronger the enemies become(with vector ships, escort carriers, point defense escorts, command cruisers, Galaxy/Odyssey class ships making an appearance to replace the frigates and lowly science vessels). If someone has a light and crunchy ship, or isn't geared to the gills, or isn't putting out huge amounts of DPS/CC, they'll fall behind. The TFO pretty much plays itself, ever since it had the timegate with everspawning portals change. No matter how many you close. The previous iteration actually gave you a breather if you reached a portal closure threshold in enough time. Leave the initial portals alone, and it's a spawn of gnats, that end up taking MUCH longer to chew through the shielding and hull of Waffle Station.
For Dranuur Gauntlet/Peril over Pahvo, even the ending dialogue tells you that you're successful when you wait out the clock. There's no "Mission Failed" dialogue at the end. Unlike in a TFO like BOTSE if you don't do the objectives. Or if you don't destroy the ships inside the timer with the red alerts.
A participation reward isn't given for failure. It's given for showing up. And in the SB-1 difficulties, you can get full rewards just for showing up. Because Cryptic pretty much removed failure conditions from the game.
You admitted in the past that you don't ever come across AFKers, certainly never AFK premades. You haven't experienced how much greener the grass is on the other side of the wall, because you haven't peeked through the holes in the wall.
Here's another one that doesn't have a fail and boot condition to it, that you can AFK in entirety. Azure Nebula Rescue.
In all seriousness:
It really cannot be said more clearly.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
if you fail you will just get 10 marks. no rnd box, no daily bonus. if you're doing exactly nothing, you get the daily bonus and rnd box, not sure abot the marks havent done it for a long time
ingame: @Felisean
If I decide to AFK SB1 in advanced/elite, I'd still get the marks (and the daily bonus if applicable), plus the canister AND the r&d box. By all instance and purpose, I would complete the queue. I simply wouldn't get as much marks out of it as possible.
Again, I fail to see how not completing optionals means the queue has failed...
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
ingame: @Felisean
Vortex need 10 missed probes to fail is fine. That means people actually screwed up the mission.
My character Tsin'xing