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/facepalm An all too easy to forget section of the forums is rediscovered... again. Thanks boss.
But is there a place for more general (non-TFO specific) advice there? For example a place in which one could put a post titled something like "So you've made level 50 - some tips for being ready for TFO's"? A place where the advice given is applicable to all TFO's... some good practices, what to carry, in addition to useful tips given repeatedly in the Academy that aren't really build specific but could be considered more broad general advice for newer players?
Speaking of stickied Forum Threads, since it had been closed for ages, the stickiness of the Kemocite Thread has outlived its usefulness.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
/facepalm An all too easy to forget section of the forums is rediscovered... again. Thanks boss.
But is there a place for more general (non-TFO specific) advice there? For example a place in which one could put a post titled something like "So you've made level 50 - some tips for being ready for TFO's"? A place where the advice given is applicable to all TFO's... some good practices, what to carry, in addition to useful tips given repeatedly in the Academy that aren't really build specific but could be considered more broad general advice for newer players?
So, you're looking for a TFO advice thread, but generic and not specific?
Speaking of stickied Forum Threads, since it had been closed for ages, the stickiness of the Kemocite Thread has outlived its usefulness.
What do you mean? I didn't think the Kemocite thread was stickied anymore.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
I hope they'll replace the injury system with something else, instead of just removing it. It should be made more significant somehow, but a penalty for dying (other than waiting a few seconds) should definitely be part of the game.
As for Borg ground content: that's still one of the best parts of the game. In my opinion.
I disagree with a penalty for dying. This is not EVE, this is STO. Just as I disagree with people who want you to have to repair your equipment after using it for awhile.
When I say 'penalty' I'm not thinking about something EVE-like.
I'm more thinking of something like having to go to ESD or another station and repairing injuries on Boffs, perhaps a small deduction in rewards for the mission or even something like having to report to Quinn.
Something that is slightly annoying to do and would therefore shift the balance a bit from players mainly caring about DPS and much less about survival. There don't need to be large costs involved like in EVE, but death should have some consequences.
As for Borg ground content: that's still one of the best parts of the game. In my opinion.
Of course it is!!!
The only thing one can argue is the graphics which dont look as good compared to newer maps but what kind of a biggie is hat supposed to be in this game from 2010? How easy could it be fixed?
The issue of players (or even devs/comunity manager or whatever) seems to be the tasks of those maps which require rudimentary aspects of team play in order to work. The game- and team-play quality limbo of newer releases went on and on over the years and reached its new low with the patrols we got this season. God they are so simple, so boring, so bad. They are so unworthy to be part of a videogame, any game. Next we get ground ones, lol. I wonder how trivial they are supposed to be?
Players have been navigated in STO season by season to smooth sailing in a bathtub and the moment they realize there is open water left somewhere they completely panic out and cry for those maps to be closed down.
"Dated" is just an fill in word here for "I cannot cope with it because I'm bad at online games (and certainly should not program them)".
Every gamer can see that and would laugh out loud if it would not be so sad.
Indeed.
The fact that you cannot do it alone is what makes these maps great. I have enjoyed carrying teams through IGE/A and HGE more than most other content.
The best thing is when players at first don't understand and then afterwards they do. There are few things I can appreciate more than people showing a willingness to learn and these maps are, among other things, great for teaching players the basics of ground combat in the game.
I would welcome a hints list myself for TFOs and such. It's the elitists who play them most of the time who would know how best to do them.
I get a lot of my hints on gameplay from the helpful players here, whether they be 'elitists' or not.
I'd use "elite" rather "elitist" since "elitist" brings to mind (for me) a jerk with too much ego to actually assist anyone because they're too conserned at maintaining their "elite status" at the cost of others and that was the defination implied in those posts as well. Admitbly the people who are allergic to any kind of hints seem to be a minority they're a vocal one and sometimes it's just because they got personal vendetta against the high end DPSers.
Pretty much all high end players I've interacted with in game have been nothing but helpful and have more faith in my skills then I've had (granted that's not that hard but still it has been so).
In regards to hints what I had in mind would a list of things you should know before entering, like the goal and major mechanics of the TFO, but it should also be optional so you can not read the hints should you choose so but at same time there's no excuse to say "but I wasn't told this". Though obviously this should be in-game (maybe accessble thru the PvE browser) since a lot of people don't read the forums.
Against my better judgment I watched the last 30 mins or so of the stream as IGA was on. I have not seen such a bad gaming performance by anybody in STO in I don’t know how long.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind players in the learning process who don’t know it all yet but knowing we have a community manager who is in some way involved in communication between players and Devs or even in the decision making process of this title at such a skill level is scary beyond words. He should have at least a slight idea what to do or bring a tiny bit of a talent, especially when making a stream out of it. Considering he isn’t even paying attention it’s even audacious in light of the other team mates whose time is being wasted.
The issue of players (or even devs/mods or whatever) seems to be the tasks of those maps which require rudimentary aspects of team play in order to work. The game- and team-play quality limbo of newer releases went on and on over the years and reached its new low with the patrols we got this season. God they are so simple, so boring, so bad. They are so unworthy to be part of a videogame, any game. Next we get ground ones, lol. I wonder how easy they are supposed to be?
No one minds teamwork so long as its good teamwork. Pahvo Dissension, or Operation Riposte, are examples of good teamwork in a TFO. The Borg ground TFOs are visually ugly, tediously long in terms of map length, and the "teamwork" in them is pretty basic, and uninteresting. Not to mention really dumb mechanics like the boss room force fields. There is nothing good about them from a design standpoint.
Assault on Terok Nor is a better ground TFO then the Borg TFOs.
Actually no. The situation is that the old maps don’t play by themselves and provide more fun the better a team gets at playing them. They only suck in bad teams which perceive the content as bad then. Your stream here is a great example. One of the best maps in game sucks like the worst map in game. This is not thanks to the Dev who designed it, its sole thanks to the player who messes it up and who leaves it in the end: Our community manager.
“Once again, Captain Leaver”.
Oh my god.
Yeah, pretty much. The idea that if you can't immediately win <insert content here>, it's the content's fault is at the heart of the issue.
I can totally understand not immediately knowing how to play something and not having time to play all day at work. And it actually did suck that two teammates went AFK halfway through the mission, but none of that was the mission's fault. The only thing that was the mission's fault was the apparently bugged respawn points. The mission is not bad just because you might need to learn something to win.
IGA is a great mission that rewards those willing and able to actually play it. And would serve as inspiration for others to learn, if not for the fact the rest of the game shovels out the same rewards for free auto-win. Unfortunately I do fear they're gonna "improve" it with yet another boring "who cares what you did, you win" -timer now. If any challenge at all is supposedly "outdated?"
Actually no. The situation is that the old maps don’t play by themselves
Yeah man, the new maps totally play themselves... which is why if you sit around and do nothing during Operation Riposte, or the Mycelial Crisis, you fail every objective! No TFO plays itself, you can win in the time allotted, or auto-fail an objective after a certain point, and move onto the next one, but neither of those is "the map playing itself". If the map played itself you would automatically win, and get full rewards, for doing nothing, which doesn't happen anywhere.
You do automatically win and get full rewards for doing nothing (except to shoot something a bit to satisfy the AFK quota). That you don't get some optional bit of extra on top is not failure. Failure is where you get booted out with "Mission Failed" and no reward at all. No non-elite content in the game is even possible to actually fail anymore.
IGA is a great mission that rewards those willing and able to actually play it. And would serve as inspiration for others to learn, if not for the fact the rest of the game shovels out the same rewards for free auto-win.
When a pre-made team of 5 people who know how to play the mission fail there's a problem. Having a jumping puzzle where you can't respawn if you mess up is BRUTAL. As-is it's more like elite level content... when it doesn't have the mission script bug out and reset the room for no reason.
IGA is a great mission that rewards those willing and able to actually play it. And would serve as inspiration for others to learn, if not for the fact the rest of the game shovels out the same rewards for free auto-win.
When a pre-made team of 5 people who know how to play the mission fail there's a problem. Having a jumping puzzle where you can't respawn if you mess up is BRUTAL. As-is it's more like elite level content... when it doesn't have the mission script bug out and reset the room for no reason.
That's a self-contradiction. Knowing how to jump is part of the mission. A team that knows how to play it doesn't fail.
Back when there was a reason to play the ground STFs (pre-S7) I played them a lot and sure there'd occasionally be someone who just plain couldn't jump, but they would say so when setting up premades so we could make sure to have at least 3 jumpers in the group. In a pug anything goes, but either the non-jumpers were very rare or they had the good sense to seek premades because I barely ever saw it fail from team's lack of jumping ability. Failed it a good bunch of times because of teams too weak to beat the boss, though. It was much harder back then.
And nobody came to the forums to complain how "BRUTAL" it was, either. Complain about pugs making stupid mistakes, sure, but it was never the mission's fault.
IGA is a great mission that rewards those willing and able to actually play it. And would serve as inspiration for others to learn, if not for the fact the rest of the game shovels out the same rewards for free auto-win.
When a pre-made team of 5 people who know how to play the mission fail there's a problem. Having a jumping puzzle where you can't respawn if you mess up is BRUTAL. As-is it's more like elite level content... when it doesn't have the mission script bug out and reset the room for no reason.
I remeber you complaint about it in forums already making me think something is broke in IGA. It's not. In order to check I took 2 friends (so a team of 3) and we playd it privately without any issues.
As fun fact it took us less than 8 minutes to get to the bossfight and another minute to deal with it. So all in all that "dated" content is as long as one of the new Forrest Gump patrols in a incomplete team that knows what to do. Thats probaly the reason why I translate "the old maps take too long" into "im bad at STO or are at least a terribly unlucky guy as I always end up in a bad team there".
Of course the game sucks then. Its not the content that sucks. Its the player.
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Against my better judgment I watched the last 30 mins or so of the stream as IGA was on. I have not seen such a bad gaming performance by anybody in STO in I don’t know how long.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mind players in the learning process who don’t know it all yet but knowing we have a community manager who is in some way involved in communication between players and Devs or even in the decision making process of this title at such a skill level is scary beyond words. He should have at least a slight idea what to do or bring a tiny bit of a talent, especially when making a stream out of it. Considering he isn’t even paying attention it’s even audacious in light of the other team mates whose time is being wasted.
The issue of players (or even devs/mods or whatever) seems to be the tasks of those maps which require rudimentary aspects of team play in order to work. The game- and team-play quality limbo of newer releases went on and on over the years and reached its new low with the patrols we got this season. God they are so simple, so boring, so bad. They are so unworthy to be part of a videogame, any game. Next we get ground ones, lol. I wonder how easy they are supposed to be?
No one minds teamwork so long as its good teamwork. Pahvo Dissension, or Operation Riposte, are examples of good teamwork in a TFO. The Borg ground TFOs are visually ugly, tediously long in terms of map length, and the "teamwork" in them is pretty basic, and uninteresting. Not to mention really dumb mechanics like the boss room force fields. There is nothing good about them from a design standpoint.
Assault on Terok Nor is a better ground TFO then the Borg TFOs.
Actually no. The situation is that the old maps don’t play by themselves and provide more fun the better a team gets at playing them. They only suck in bad teams which perceive the content as bad then. Your stream here is a great example. One of the best maps in game sucks like the worst map in game. This is not thanks to the Dev who designed it, its sole thanks to the player who messes it up and who leaves it in the end: Our community manager.
“Once again, Captain Leaver”.
Oh my god.
Well, in all fairness, Kael/Mike being the Community Manager, its his JOB. I know part of the job seems like he should know the game, but since there's so many aspects to the game, its not fair to assume that he knows everything.
You also have to remember that he doesn't play the game full time. He interacts with the devs so that he knows what needs to be going up for the day (if anything), he likely sits in on meetings for the next updates so he has knowledge of what's coming down he pike and works with the devs to figure out how they will arrange the blog scheduling. He also interacts with us as often as he can. When he does play the game, he is usually showing stuff off like a new ship (kitted out by Jette), playing new content or going into stuff that he thinks we may find interesting.
You also have to remember that he also has a life outside of the game. He has a wife and a baby to take care of, so playing the game full time isn't in his top priorities.
We should count ourselves lucky that he's been doing the livestreams. Under LaughingTrendy, we were lucky if we even got a livestream (I think they had only a few with her, one of which was Chase Masterson). Kael does the livestreams in order to give us a chance to interact with him for and one of the devs for a couple of hours a day while they go and show off something.
I respect that u try to defned what we saw here. I do that too, give random players the benefit of the doubt. Its fair, its normal and I realy dont mind new and inexperienced players. God, nobody needs to set DPS records for me.
Still.... have you seen the stream mate?
He had even trouble to comprehend the injury system. It took me like 10 minutes in 2012 to comprehend. 5 to understand it thanks to STO wiki and another 5 to put it into practise in game. Done.
Neither my babychild, wife, job or last week's cold was in any jeopardy while I did that. This is not a matter of time or skill, its a matter of lazyness and politness towards other players and yea, old maps are not forgiving there.
Only the new ones are as they are designed with Forrest Gump in mind right from the start.
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teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,604Community Moderator
Give him a break! Just because he works for STO Devs doesn't mean he's an expert on STO and every mechanic in the game. Not only that, but aren't there also a bunch of people out there who practically collect injuries? While it has been a long time since I've seen someone start a STF with a long string of injuries, I have seen it in the past. Either they don't know how to fix them, they are "role-playing" that they haven't been able to return to base, or they are just being flat out trolls who don't care.
Frankly what this probably showed is that in some capacity the game doesn't tell you anything about injuries, or that the injury system is pretty much outdated and needs work. And by your own words you had to go to the STO Wiki to figure out the injury system yourself! An OUTSIDE source.
Ship injuries are a bit easier to figure out what they impact, whereas character injuries are more vague. All you really know is the color of the debuff shows how bad it is and what type of component/regenerator you need.
For me Injuries are really a non issue as you can just use a component/regenerator right out of your bank, and I usually keep a full stack of each in there. But other people either don't know or don't care. In AnbassadorKael's case he may not have known.
/facepalm An all too easy to forget section of the forums is rediscovered... again. Thanks boss.
But is there a place for more general (non-TFO specific) advice there? For example a place in which one could put a post titled something like "So you've made level 50 - some tips for being ready for TFO's"? A place where the advice given is applicable to all TFO's... some good practices, what to carry, in addition to useful tips given repeatedly in the Academy that aren't really build specific but could be considered more broad general advice for newer players?
So, you're looking for a TFO advice thread, but generic and not specific?
Yes. Generic (general advice) I think would come before TFO specific advice as well as it's preparing you to carry out the specifics (if this makes sense to you).
Sadly I'm not entirely sure if yet another forum sub-folder is going to solve anything for players running advanced queues:
Not carrying nor equipping large hypos
Not carrying both minor and major regenerators (ground) and components (space) and healing injuries as received
Not following the advice of in-game tutorials
Not using the aim function while playing ground (also mentioned in a tutorial)
Not arranging their captain and kit abilities (ground) or captain and boff abilities (space) for easy use, and then actually using them
Not arranging their inventories so as to have a few key items available for quick switch outs
Not availing themselves of online resources that have been around for literally years after encountering an obstacle or for self improvement
Ignoring important yet simple advice in team chat (or more so as of late not even using team chat at all)
Like any MMO, a certain base level of preparedness combined with some self study, practice, and the will for self improvement and to engage in actual teamwork is necessary prior to entering advanced or better content.
To do otherwise is just setting yourself and others up for frustration.
Happily, there are many other things to do in-game that allow players to get the practice they need.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Not using the aim function while playing ground (also mentioned in a tutorial)
this is not even REMOTELY necessary - i have completed hundreds of grounds, some of them elite, without ever touching this
Nitpicking.
I put it in that list for a reason. To make a point. Yet another basic game play aspect overlooked because it's easier to just complain instead (with reference to the livestream synopsis from reddit).
It might be of lesser importance for yourself as you're better geared and actually using all your ground captain and kit abilities whenever necessary or as they come off cool down. This doesn't appear to be the case for some.
But still... in combination with Mental_Acuity you're also getting bonus damage on top of your extra ranged damage. For players playing in RPG mode, aim mode (used as a toggle with aim 'zoom mode' set to off in settings) you're not only doing more damage, but are able to modulate your movement speed while in auto move forward mode as well. Triple bonus.
Seems we're well on the way to a back to basics thread only we're in the wrong forum section.
Edit: Quadruple bonus. See headshot in Commando spec. +5% CrtH as well while aiming.
Give him a break! Just because he works for STO Devs doesn't mean he's an expert on STO and every mechanic in the game. Not only that, but aren't there also a bunch of people out there who practically collect injuries? While it has been a long time since I've seen someone start a STF with a long string of injuries, I have seen it in the past. Either they don't know how to fix them, they are "role-playing" that they haven't been able to return to base, or they are just being flat out trolls who don't care.
Frankly what this probably showed is that in some capacity the game doesn't tell you anything about injuries, or that the injury system is pretty much outdated and needs work. And by your own words you had to go to the STO Wiki to figure out the injury system yourself! An OUTSIDE source.
Ship injuries are a bit easier to figure out what they impact, whereas character injuries are more vague. All you really know is the color of the debuff shows how bad it is and what type of component/regenerator you need.
For me Injuries are really a non issue as you can just use a component/regenerator right out of your bank, and I usually keep a full stack of each in there. But other people either don't know or don't care. In AnbassadorKael's case he may not have known.
Nope. Not giving him a break. If he's going to put himself out there in a fashion(such as a showcase/gaming stream), he should expect criticism. Not a "diplomatic immunity" status. Nobody's saying that he should be a high end genius expert on STO. But when it comes to playing the game, one should have enough brainpower to do more than try to figure out how friction works, if going above journalist difficulty. A community manager should have a decent amount of knowledge regarding the product, beyond focusing on the light show and how pretty something is. What this showed, is a lack of rudimentary knowledge even, when it came to gaming. Like a player who got handed a powerleveled character or just windsprinted through levels while hitting spacebar/skip through the dialogue/tutorial/warnings on first-time playthrough, and thinks that they're hot sh*t that can handle anything beyond normal difficulty level right out the gate. Put your shiny alabaster platemail with ivory and pearl inlays away.
He showcased how terrible he is at the game. Almost bailed on his team halfway through, went AFK during at least one firefight. Blamed the game for his lack of skills or inability to pay attention past the point of his sword. Leeroy Jenkins'd his way through the TFO and got pasted for it. Evac'd on his team, wasting their time. He was a terrible teammate. Wants to dumb down the TFO and STO itself even more. Make everything easy for the sake of convenience. For the lowest common denominator. Nothing in the TFO he played was bad or broken, except for what occupied the space between desk and computer chair(he even ran into the "acid pool" immediately after getting revived and making it to the ramp). The TFO didn't bug out or glitch, or crash to desktop. It didn't give him a chronic rash of SNRpes either. Kael would be considered the first and the third in the case of the part I bolded and italicized. Especially after tapping out at the end part while not communicating w/ his team unless it was a premade with voice comms. Certainly not the second.
Keep some form of an injury system, especially for the higher difficulties. Higher rewards with higher risks. Don't want injuries or busted ships? Journalist difficulty is there for that. Unless things changed over the years, you DO get told that higher difficulties give injuries. There were/are NPCs that you talked to regarding that, as well as how to deal with injuries. There was one on old DS9, and there most likely still is one at First City next to the arena.
I'm no elitist or someone who goes out of my way to chase the DPS carrot while running the hamster wheel, but I did ask questions and paid attention with regards to those I communicated with in game as I progressed, whether NPC or player. I test, learn and push myself even with limited time. Because I'd rather be an asset to a team, than a buddy f***er or a dragging anchor.
I'm sure that Kael is a nice guy for the most part, but it would be better to have someone else showcase gameplay until he has enough time and experience playing/learning the game better to take the reins.
You know, there are an in-game tutorials regarding injuries (ground and space). In fact, there are several NPCs throughout ESD that give you information on various aspects of the game: “Changing Clothes” (Intro to the Tailor), “Medical Attention” (Intro to Personal Injuries), “Skills Trainer” (Intro to the Skills System), “Unlocking the Box” (Intro to Lockboxes), “Out of Commission” (Intro to Ship Injuries), and “A Difficult Decision” (Intro to Difficulty Settings) are all tutorial missions on ESD. Most people don't bother with visiting them, though. They used to be given by Quinn during "Welcome to Earth Spacedock", but now you have to go to R'raak to get them, so they're easily overlooked.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Actually, Kelpiens could make sense - if they were restricted to modern-day Starfleet. In DSC they were still off-limits, and by TOS I doubt very much they were members of the Federation yet (same reason you can't play a TOS Trill, even though we know the Trill were in contact with the Federation back then). No reason why a Kelpien couldn't be an Academy graduate in 2409, though, as long as he/she was old enough to have shed the threat ganglia.
And some of the responses in here are precisely why I stay away from TFOs - this attitude that if I don't know before the mission even starts precisely what I need to do and when I need to do it, that means I must be a bad player and don't deserve to be there. (Especially what was mentioned about having to jump things in one TFO - this game isn't generally a platformer, and if I have to start jumping like one it's going to take me a few tries to figure it out. And if failing a jump means I die and can't try again, there's no way for me to figure it out.)
And no, I'm not just talking about that one thing - it's an attitude that comes up every time TFOs are discussed (and back when STFs were a thing, those too). If you haven't already mastered the mission, some seem to think, you have no business queuing up even for Normal difficulty, much less Advanced (although those same people often suggest that Advanced is "so simple" that there shouldn't eve be a Normal).
IGA is a great mission that rewards those willing and able to actually play it. And would serve as inspiration for others to learn, if not for the fact the rest of the game shovels out the same rewards for free auto-win.
When a pre-made team of 5 people who know how to play the mission fail there's a problem. Having a jumping puzzle where you can't respawn if you mess up is BRUTAL. As-is it's more like elite level content... when it doesn't have the mission script bug out and reset the room for no reason.
I remeber you complaint about it in forums already making me think something is broke in IGA. It's not. In order to check I took 2 friends (so a team of 3) and we playd it privately without any issues.
As fun fact it took us less than 8 minutes to get to the bossfight and another minute to deal with it.
8 minutes to kill everything prior to the boss room? I'm pretty sure you curbstomped an Advanced queue with an Elite level team. There is no question as to whether the mission CAN be done, I'VE done it. The question is if it's too hard to be an advanced queue. Let's break down the entire mission bit by bit.
The part up until the mini-boss is a boring slog. It's not that it's HARD, just that you have to mow down CAPTAIN level Borg like cannon fodder. Also the objective for saving starbase personnel is... weird. You kill the Borg interacting with them before a timer runs down, then have to interact with them to beam them out.... while an entire roomful of Borg tries to shoot you to death. Then repeat.. repeatedly. The invisible triggers for the assimilation timers are something players can't see and aren't even in the room itself. The old standard approach is lure tactics, because it's not guaranteed to work any other way. Good luck doing that with PUGs. But this is optional, so not really important.
Next is the easy part. The miniboss. Get in, shoot the minions, then shoot the mini-boss, then shoot any adds that spawned. It's a lockout fight, but not really a challenge at all.
Then there's another hallway with more cannon fodder. I don't remember if this part has captains or not, but I'm sure it has at least multiple commanders.
Now the part that makes people quit. How many effects are there that Borg NPCs can use to stop you from jumping/running? I'm pretty sure assimilation nanites do and I know that EG field does. I'm not 100% sure which specific Borg have them though. The best way to do the console puzzle is to have two guys on the center platform shooting Borg. At any rate, making one jump without either mis-timing it or whatever is easy, but having three team members make a series of.. let's see... I count an even 20 jumps each. That's 60 repetitions and if any one of them fails for any reason(player error, Borg attack, lag) then that attempt at solving the console puzzle fails. Honestly this would be made far easier simply by not having it be a lockout. A big part of the problem is that you can't respawn.
And believe it or not I once saw the mission bug out and not reset the room properly when the team got wiped by Becky.
Now the part that makes people quit. How many effects are there that Borg NPCs can use to stop you from jumping/running? I'm pretty sure assimilation nanites do and I know that EG field does. I'm not 100% sure which specific Borg have them though. The best way to do the console puzzle is to have two guys on the center platform shooting Borg. At any rate, making one jump without either mis-timing it or whatever is easy, but having three team members make a series of.. let's see... I count an even 20 jumps each. That's 60 repetitions and if any one of them fails for any reason(player error, Borg attack, lag) then that attempt at solving the console puzzle fails. Honestly this would be made far easier simply by not having it be a lockout. A big part of the problem is that you can't respawn.
I am confused as to why people see this part of the map as such a challenge.
It's not even a 'jump puzzle,' there are cubes that line up so you can practically run across them without jumping. A quick tap of the jump button all but guarantees you will make it.. there is a large area to leap from and a large area to land on. Honestly, the only way this part is difficult is if you do what Kael did and jump from the Ramp. Even that's not bad if you jump from the top.. the reason he made it look so difficult is because for some reason, he jumped from the bottom part of the ramp to try and get up to the cubes. I am baffled why anyone would do this once.. he did it like 3 times and didn't seem to get that you can't jump that way.
I usually don't PUG this mission because for some reason people don't understand the 'puzzle' which still.. isn't even a real puzzle. I would say that Kael made this mission look much harder then it is (which he did) but the truth is, he was a typical PUG and for some reason, many people have these issues with this map.
Personally, I would prefer that some type of explanation be added in instead of having the map drastically altered. Being though as to how Kael failed so horribly and all but demanded it be 'fixed' I am expecting that it will soon be changed to be a quick and brainless auto win map.
I don't understand why his reaction was 'fix the map' as opposed to 'I need to learn how to play this map.'
Comments
I get a lot of my hints on gameplay from the helpful players here, whether they be 'elitists' or not.
By all means, please, contribute.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1246352/tips-and-tricks-for-task-force-operations
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/facepalm An all too easy to forget section of the forums is rediscovered... again. Thanks boss.
But is there a place for more general (non-TFO specific) advice there? For example a place in which one could put a post titled something like "So you've made level 50 - some tips for being ready for TFO's"? A place where the advice given is applicable to all TFO's... some good practices, what to carry, in addition to useful tips given repeatedly in the Academy that aren't really build specific but could be considered more broad general advice for newer players?
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
So, you're looking for a TFO advice thread, but generic and not specific?
What do you mean? I didn't think the Kemocite thread was stickied anymore.
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That's good to know, I wasn't aware that they already turned it down actually.
When I say 'penalty' I'm not thinking about something EVE-like.
I'm more thinking of something like having to go to ESD or another station and repairing injuries on Boffs, perhaps a small deduction in rewards for the mission or even something like having to report to Quinn.
Something that is slightly annoying to do and would therefore shift the balance a bit from players mainly caring about DPS and much less about survival. There don't need to be large costs involved like in EVE, but death should have some consequences.
Add it only to advanced or elite if needed.
Indeed.
The fact that you cannot do it alone is what makes these maps great. I have enjoyed carrying teams through IGE/A and HGE more than most other content.
The best thing is when players at first don't understand and then afterwards they do. There are few things I can appreciate more than people showing a willingness to learn and these maps are, among other things, great for teaching players the basics of ground combat in the game.
Pretty much all high end players I've interacted with in game have been nothing but helpful and have more faith in my skills then I've had (granted that's not that hard but still it has been so).
In regards to hints what I had in mind would a list of things you should know before entering, like the goal and major mechanics of the TFO, but it should also be optional so you can not read the hints should you choose so but at same time there's no excuse to say "but I wasn't told this". Though obviously this should be in-game (maybe accessble thru the PvE browser) since a lot of people don't read the forums.
I can totally understand not immediately knowing how to play something and not having time to play all day at work. And it actually did suck that two teammates went AFK halfway through the mission, but none of that was the mission's fault. The only thing that was the mission's fault was the apparently bugged respawn points. The mission is not bad just because you might need to learn something to win.
IGA is a great mission that rewards those willing and able to actually play it. And would serve as inspiration for others to learn, if not for the fact the rest of the game shovels out the same rewards for free auto-win. Unfortunately I do fear they're gonna "improve" it with yet another boring "who cares what you did, you win" -timer now. If any challenge at all is supposedly "outdated?"
You do automatically win and get full rewards for doing nothing (except to shoot something a bit to satisfy the AFK quota). That you don't get some optional bit of extra on top is not failure. Failure is where you get booted out with "Mission Failed" and no reward at all. No non-elite content in the game is even possible to actually fail anymore.
My character Tsin'xing
Back when there was a reason to play the ground STFs (pre-S7) I played them a lot and sure there'd occasionally be someone who just plain couldn't jump, but they would say so when setting up premades so we could make sure to have at least 3 jumpers in the group. In a pug anything goes, but either the non-jumpers were very rare or they had the good sense to seek premades because I barely ever saw it fail from team's lack of jumping ability. Failed it a good bunch of times because of teams too weak to beat the boss, though. It was much harder back then.
And nobody came to the forums to complain how "BRUTAL" it was, either. Complain about pugs making stupid mistakes, sure, but it was never the mission's fault.
I remeber you complaint about it in forums already making me think something is broke in IGA. It's not. In order to check I took 2 friends (so a team of 3) and we playd it privately without any issues.
As fun fact it took us less than 8 minutes to get to the bossfight and another minute to deal with it. So all in all that "dated" content is as long as one of the new Forrest Gump patrols in a incomplete team that knows what to do. Thats probaly the reason why I translate "the old maps take too long" into "im bad at STO or are at least a terribly unlucky guy as I always end up in a bad team there".
Of course the game sucks then. Its not the content that sucks. Its the player.
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I respect that u try to defned what we saw here. I do that too, give random players the benefit of the doubt. Its fair, its normal and I realy dont mind new and inexperienced players. God, nobody needs to set DPS records for me.
Still.... have you seen the stream mate?
He had even trouble to comprehend the injury system. It took me like 10 minutes in 2012 to comprehend. 5 to understand it thanks to STO wiki and another 5 to put it into practise in game. Done.
Neither my babychild, wife, job or last week's cold was in any jeopardy while I did that. This is not a matter of time or skill, its a matter of lazyness and politness towards other players and yea, old maps are not forgiving there.
Only the new ones are as they are designed with Forrest Gump in mind right from the start.
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Frankly what this probably showed is that in some capacity the game doesn't tell you anything about injuries, or that the injury system is pretty much outdated and needs work. And by your own words you had to go to the STO Wiki to figure out the injury system yourself! An OUTSIDE source.
Ship injuries are a bit easier to figure out what they impact, whereas character injuries are more vague. All you really know is the color of the debuff shows how bad it is and what type of component/regenerator you need.
For me Injuries are really a non issue as you can just use a component/regenerator right out of your bank, and I usually keep a full stack of each in there. But other people either don't know or don't care. In AnbassadorKael's case he may not have known.
Sadly I'm not entirely sure if yet another forum sub-folder is going to solve anything for players running advanced queues:
Like any MMO, a certain base level of preparedness combined with some self study, practice, and the will for self improvement and to engage in actual teamwork is necessary prior to entering advanced or better content.
To do otherwise is just setting yourself and others up for frustration.
Happily, there are many other things to do in-game that allow players to get the practice they need.
this is not even REMOTELY necessary - i have completed hundreds of grounds, some of them elite, without ever touching this
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I put it in that list for a reason. To make a point. Yet another basic game play aspect overlooked because it's easier to just complain instead (with reference to the livestream synopsis from reddit).
It might be of lesser importance for yourself as you're better geared and actually using all your ground captain and kit abilities whenever necessary or as they come off cool down. This doesn't appear to be the case for some.
But still... in combination with Mental_Acuity you're also getting bonus damage on top of your extra ranged damage. For players playing in RPG mode, aim mode (used as a toggle with aim 'zoom mode' set to off in settings) you're not only doing more damage, but are able to modulate your movement speed while in auto move forward mode as well. Triple bonus.
Seems we're well on the way to a back to basics thread only we're in the wrong forum section.
Edit: Quadruple bonus. See headshot in Commando spec. +5% CrtH as well while aiming.
Nope. Not giving him a break. If he's going to put himself out there in a fashion(such as a showcase/gaming stream), he should expect criticism. Not a "diplomatic immunity" status. Nobody's saying that he should be a high end genius expert on STO. But when it comes to playing the game, one should have enough brainpower to do more than try to figure out how friction works, if going above journalist difficulty. A community manager should have a decent amount of knowledge regarding the product, beyond focusing on the light show and how pretty something is. What this showed, is a lack of rudimentary knowledge even, when it came to gaming. Like a player who got handed a powerleveled character or just windsprinted through levels while hitting spacebar/skip through the dialogue/tutorial/warnings on first-time playthrough, and thinks that they're hot sh*t that can handle anything beyond normal difficulty level right out the gate. Put your shiny alabaster platemail with ivory and pearl inlays away.
He showcased how terrible he is at the game. Almost bailed on his team halfway through, went AFK during at least one firefight. Blamed the game for his lack of skills or inability to pay attention past the point of his sword. Leeroy Jenkins'd his way through the TFO and got pasted for it. Evac'd on his team, wasting their time. He was a terrible teammate. Wants to dumb down the TFO and STO itself even more. Make everything easy for the sake of convenience. For the lowest common denominator. Nothing in the TFO he played was bad or broken, except for what occupied the space between desk and computer chair(he even ran into the "acid pool" immediately after getting revived and making it to the ramp). The TFO didn't bug out or glitch, or crash to desktop. It didn't give him a chronic rash of SNRpes either. Kael would be considered the first and the third in the case of the part I bolded and italicized. Especially after tapping out at the end part while not communicating w/ his team unless it was a premade with voice comms. Certainly not the second.
Keep some form of an injury system, especially for the higher difficulties. Higher rewards with higher risks. Don't want injuries or busted ships? Journalist difficulty is there for that. Unless things changed over the years, you DO get told that higher difficulties give injuries. There were/are NPCs that you talked to regarding that, as well as how to deal with injuries. There was one on old DS9, and there most likely still is one at First City next to the arena.
I'm no elitist or someone who goes out of my way to chase the DPS carrot while running the hamster wheel, but I did ask questions and paid attention with regards to those I communicated with in game as I progressed, whether NPC or player. I test, learn and push myself even with limited time. Because I'd rather be an asset to a team, than a buddy f***er or a dragging anchor.
I'm sure that Kael is a nice guy for the most part, but it would be better to have someone else showcase gameplay until he has enough time and experience playing/learning the game better to take the reins.
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Actually, Kelpiens could make sense - if they were restricted to modern-day Starfleet. In DSC they were still off-limits, and by TOS I doubt very much they were members of the Federation yet (same reason you can't play a TOS Trill, even though we know the Trill were in contact with the Federation back then). No reason why a Kelpien couldn't be an Academy graduate in 2409, though, as long as he/she was old enough to have shed the threat ganglia.
And some of the responses in here are precisely why I stay away from TFOs - this attitude that if I don't know before the mission even starts precisely what I need to do and when I need to do it, that means I must be a bad player and don't deserve to be there. (Especially what was mentioned about having to jump things in one TFO - this game isn't generally a platformer, and if I have to start jumping like one it's going to take me a few tries to figure it out. And if failing a jump means I die and can't try again, there's no way for me to figure it out.)
And no, I'm not just talking about that one thing - it's an attitude that comes up every time TFOs are discussed (and back when STFs were a thing, those too). If you haven't already mastered the mission, some seem to think, you have no business queuing up even for Normal difficulty, much less Advanced (although those same people often suggest that Advanced is "so simple" that there shouldn't eve be a Normal).
The part up until the mini-boss is a boring slog. It's not that it's HARD, just that you have to mow down CAPTAIN level Borg like cannon fodder. Also the objective for saving starbase personnel is... weird. You kill the Borg interacting with them before a timer runs down, then have to interact with them to beam them out.... while an entire roomful of Borg tries to shoot you to death. Then repeat.. repeatedly. The invisible triggers for the assimilation timers are something players can't see and aren't even in the room itself. The old standard approach is lure tactics, because it's not guaranteed to work any other way. Good luck doing that with PUGs. But this is optional, so not really important.
Next is the easy part. The miniboss. Get in, shoot the minions, then shoot the mini-boss, then shoot any adds that spawned. It's a lockout fight, but not really a challenge at all.
Then there's another hallway with more cannon fodder. I don't remember if this part has captains or not, but I'm sure it has at least multiple commanders.
Now the part that makes people quit. How many effects are there that Borg NPCs can use to stop you from jumping/running? I'm pretty sure assimilation nanites do and I know that EG field does. I'm not 100% sure which specific Borg have them though. The best way to do the console puzzle is to have two guys on the center platform shooting Borg. At any rate, making one jump without either mis-timing it or whatever is easy, but having three team members make a series of.. let's see... I count an even 20 jumps each. That's 60 repetitions and if any one of them fails for any reason(player error, Borg attack, lag) then that attempt at solving the console puzzle fails. Honestly this would be made far easier simply by not having it be a lockout. A big part of the problem is that you can't respawn.
And believe it or not I once saw the mission bug out and not reset the room properly when the team got wiped by Becky.
My character Tsin'xing
I am confused as to why people see this part of the map as such a challenge.
It's not even a 'jump puzzle,' there are cubes that line up so you can practically run across them without jumping. A quick tap of the jump button all but guarantees you will make it.. there is a large area to leap from and a large area to land on. Honestly, the only way this part is difficult is if you do what Kael did and jump from the Ramp. Even that's not bad if you jump from the top.. the reason he made it look so difficult is because for some reason, he jumped from the bottom part of the ramp to try and get up to the cubes. I am baffled why anyone would do this once.. he did it like 3 times and didn't seem to get that you can't jump that way.
I usually don't PUG this mission because for some reason people don't understand the 'puzzle' which still.. isn't even a real puzzle. I would say that Kael made this mission look much harder then it is (which he did) but the truth is, he was a typical PUG and for some reason, many people have these issues with this map.
Personally, I would prefer that some type of explanation be added in instead of having the map drastically altered. Being though as to how Kael failed so horribly and all but demanded it be 'fixed' I am expecting that it will soon be changed to be a quick and brainless auto win map.
I don't understand why his reaction was 'fix the map' as opposed to 'I need to learn how to play this map.'