'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I'm trying to figure out if the repsonses to Vetteguy are just trolling or actually defending the original statement that is If you cannot solo a TFO don't run it...
In my case, neither.
I fully understand the motivations to explain one’s own failures but doing so by insinuating that only those without real live obligations can become good at this game is highly misleading. There is also no basis for equating DPSing with trollish behavior.
Both he and DPSer know that; unfortunately those in the learning process or completely new to this game could get a wrong picture here, hence my reply.
the hubris of most of you is appalling. you all have the exact attitude, "You suck at playing so stay out of MY GAME". Pray that most will continue to ignore you, without US, YOUR game will close down.
I hope I did not contribute to that misconception because preventing such attitudes was the #1 reason to become good at PvE myself. In general, the better you get the less you start to expect from your team-mates in public PvE.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
the hubris of most of you is appalling. you all have the exact attitude, "You suck at playing so stay out of MY GAME". Pray that most will continue to ignore you, without US, YOUR game will close down.
That is the exact opposite of what most of us are saying. Try reading the comments again, but this time filter out your own bias and personal insecurities.
There is no us, you or them.. we're all in the same boat.
I'm trying to figure out if the repsonses to Vetteguy are just trolling or actually defending the original statement that is If you cannot solo a TFO don't run it...
the hubris of most of you is appalling. you all have the exact attitude, "You suck at playing so stay out of MY GAME". Pray that most will continue to ignore you, without US, YOUR game will close down.
Actually, I have no problem carrying even 4 other players. I can finish the map on my own for the most part...what other people do when I can do that becomes irrelevant. The reason I say what I say is because the people who complain are people who have ships/captains and/or skills that require them to leech and than they complain the game's too hard when they fail to leech instead of getting better.
Right. Poor players getting teamed with good ones isn't a problem (in a game as easy as STO anyway). As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather see the mission pop with 4 leeches than wait in queue for good players who's help I won't need anyway.
The problem is that if many players have a habit of joining queues they can't play, odds are they'll get teamed with each other and the whining starts when there's nobody there to carry them.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,579Community Moderator
And I am not sure why people think I am DPSer. I do more of a what's your budget/theme/whatever restriction and I can help you make a workable ship for that price/restrictions more than chasing DPS. I make my ships generally on themes. Or because something looks cool. I just do it in a manner where I have a workable ship is all. I don't even chase DPS as a side quest. I just happen to know a lot of the mechanics.
I think it was your "if you can't solo it don't do it" line that everyone's jumping on. Its instantly showing an attitude that feels combative towards people who can't solo a TFO. And your defense of that line contributes to the percieved attitude, and makes others defensive.
Let's try and move on from it, please. Or has this thread already served its purpose?
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Speaking only for myself, I cannot stand it when people respond with "some of us have real lives" to any and all advice given. We all have real lives, and no matter what those lives may entail the odds of any given player being someone who spends every waking moment playing STO is vanishingly small. If those players instead responded with "how much time invested in the game does that take" or something similar instead of just dismissing the advice out of hand on a most likely incorrect assumption then maybe those players who know how to do it quick easy and cheap would likewise be a touch more diplomatic in response.
Making an assumption that someone must be doing X to achieve C is just not smart. Maybe that player does A to achieve C, maybe a player does T G & U to achieve C.
In the above examples C is "be ready for Advanced or Elite TFOs". One can achieve this in many ways, "playing constantly" isn't actually one of them though as the goal is so easy to achieve that such a player would be finished with it in 3 days at most using total time it took me to take 1 character from "hopeless new toon with garbage build because the character was going to be deleted but changed mind" to "capable of running any Advanced TFO and being an asset to the team", and allowing 6 to 8 hours of sleep a day because absolutely nobody can play constantly.
I'm in agreement. And I am by NO means on your level - but that isn't my point.
I have limited game time, as work full-time and have family commitments; my online time is pretty much limited to a 20 -30 minute stint at lunchtime (as return home for lunch) and then evenings at around 20:30 until however long I last without falling asleep at the PC.
However, thanks to some excellent advice and guidance offerred here (and also from some friends in-game) put into practice I can at least say that I've gone from being a player who formerly managed at best 25k DPS with my Eng character to one who can scrape 80k from the same character; hardly overwhelming performance but certainly means I can handle just about any Advanced content. And I very much doubt that I 'carry' any teams, but I can at least confidentally say that I'm not a burden to any team I'm in.
And my point is I have friends who spend a LOT more time in-game than I do, but do significantly less DPS than me. And as my friends here will attest, I am no DPSer - in fact, @peterconnorfirst was correct in his assessment of me, in a recent post, that I view it as more of a 'side-quest' than anything else.
'The weapon proc from Advanced Beam Arrays now grants a scaling buff to Advanced Beam Critical Severity, instead of Bonus Damage.'
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
i'm not a dpser, my main can do 65k and without special stuff. she uses crafted disuptor beams, spire consoles, rep consoles + some stuff buy in the exchange.
what i want to say, is you don't need to follow the dps race for being efficient in tfo's.
in the current state of the game, you don't need to be mega/extra/uber powerful. 3 players can do easily the job, even on ground, but without the optionals.
The game was more difficult when i started to play, and we played with MK XII stuff, not even purple because the prices in the exchange were ridiculous, 30 mil ec for a tac console. The ground stfs were difficult also, I spent a long long long time, in the old borg stfs to grind all the maco armors.
the main is problem is that a lot of players don't read the instructions. And don't try to learn how to figh the different foes.
I played in gravity kill, with 4 science captains who spent their time to use gravity well on the tzen. I tried to explain to them how to fight the tzen, and i earnt only insults "TRIBBLE...., i do what i want" for example. I tried to communicate again and again, but finally I left, ; the tfo was unplayable.
A lot of players spent too much time in the borg tfos, and don't know how to play the others.
it is funny in std1, suddendly players discover that the bops try to flank them. they are destroyed and rage quit.
True difficulty in TFO's halfwits that can't read the very objective stated under the mini-map. Assault on Terok Nor as an example. Last stage depower Leeta using the plates. you can't miss um, yet you have idiots pulling her all around the map. I don't know if they are idiots or trolling ?
That's why you take the leaver penalty in TFO's and leave them to it
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
True difficulty in TFO's halfwits that can't read the very objective stated under the mini-map. Assault on Terok Nor as an example. Last stage depower Leeta using the plates. you can't miss um, yet you have idiots pulling her all around the map. I don't know if they are idiots or trolling ?
That's why you take the leaver penalty in TFO's and leave them to it
This is what annoys me most: players who don't try to play the objectives. This is one thing where many "non DPS" players could shine - they still activate stuff or close portals just as fast and can contribute a lot. People fighting with decoy mobs for the entirety of the TFO though ... sometimes you even get complaints that you suck because optionals were failed, when three of the players didn't do a single thing for them, yet they're the ones complaining.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
True difficulty in TFO's halfwits that can't read the very objective stated under the mini-map. Assault on Terok Nor as an example. Last stage depower Leeta using the plates. you can't miss um, yet you have idiots pulling her all around the map. I don't know if they are idiots or trolling ?
That's why you take the leaver penalty in TFO's and leave them to it
This is what annoys me most: players who don't try to play the objectives. This is one thing where many "non DPS" players could shine - they still activate stuff or close portals just as fast and can contribute a lot. People fighting with decoy mobs for the entirety of the TFO though ... sometimes you even get complaints that you suck because optionals were failed, when three of the players didn't do a single thing for them, yet they're the ones complaining.
True another classic is Grethor 1st stage instead of attacking the 2 task forces around the starbase and shipyard they go for the asteroid field or in the 2nd stage ignore closing radiation portals and fight the endless mobs closing their portals
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
Speaking only for myself, I cannot stand it when people respond with "some of us have real lives" to any and all advice given. We all have real lives, and no matter what those lives may entail the odds of any given player being someone who spends every waking moment playing STO is vanishingly small. If those players instead responded with "how much time invested in the game does that take" or something similar instead of just dismissing the advice out of hand on a most likely incorrect assumption then maybe those players who know how to do it quick easy and cheap would likewise be a touch more diplomatic in response.
Making an assumption that someone must be doing X to achieve C is just not smart. Maybe that player does A to achieve C, maybe a player does T G & U to achieve C.
In the above examples C is "be ready for Advanced or Elite TFOs". One can achieve this in many ways, "playing constantly" isn't actually one of them though as the goal is so easy to achieve that such a player would be finished with it in 3 days at most using total time it took me to take 1 character from "hopeless new toon with garbage build because the character was going to be deleted but changed mind" to "capable of running any Advanced TFO and being an asset to the team", and allowing 6 to 8 hours of sleep a day because absolutely nobody can play constantly.
I'm in agreement. And I am by NO means on your level - but that isn't my point.
I have limited game time, as work full-time and have family commitments; my online time is pretty much limited to a 20 -30 minute stint at lunchtime (as return home for lunch) and then evenings at around 20:30 until however long I last without falling asleep at the PC.
However, thanks to some excellent advice and guidance offerred here (and also from some friends in-game) put into practice I can at least say that I've gone from being a player who formerly managed at best 25k DPS with my Eng character to one who can scrape 80k from the same character; hardly overwhelming performance but certainly means I can handle just about any Advanced content. And I very much doubt that I 'carry' any teams, but I can at least confidentally say that I'm not a burden to any team I'm in.
And my point is I have friends who spend a LOT more time in-game than I do, but do significantly less DPS than me. And as my friends here will attest, I am no DPSer - in fact, @peterconnorfirst was correct in his assessment of me, in a recent post, that I view it as more of a 'side-quest' than anything else.
'The weapon proc from Advanced Beam Arrays now grants a scaling buff to Advanced Beam Critical Severity, instead of Bonus Damage.'
there goes your 80K
Wrong.
T'Anda@reyan01: 85,586
Seems a few tweeks to the build may have offset the beam nerf
Welcome to playing the game like one of the filthy DPSers. Change happens...you adjust. Oh the horrors .
The dark side is strong with him! Going forward the jealousy and resentment of others will only fuel @reyan01 to grow even stronger.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
if you have 1 target, bo > faw, if you have 2+ targets faw > bo
Thats a good guideline but I wonder what happens if you shoot into a grav well and have the AoE BO traits? Although further testing is needed. There is also the beam that hits extra targets with BO which should beat out FAW on two+ targets. Use Kemocite Overload, Preferential Targeting, Directed Energy Flux with Superweapon traits and you can get some crazy BO results. Not tested but Overwhelming_Force and Energy Web traits might now be amazing.
EDIT: Energy Web is no good due to the long cooldown. Crescent Wave Discharge might be worth a look.
EDIT2: Overwhelming_Force ruled out its only on first shot.
if you have 1 target, bo > faw, if you have 2+ targets faw > bo
This.
It now might be optimal to keep both powers similar to how people currently do with Cannon Scatter Volley and Rapid Fire. It's been a common tactic for a while to use Rapid Fire on big single targets and Scatter Volley on Mobs. The buff to BO now adds that versatility to Beam Builds, which is great.
What I would really like to see them do is remove the silly firing cycle slow down from Surgical Strikes so that it would actually be usable. I would love to build a ship like the Eclipse with a SS/BO Single Target Build. Make SS share cooldown with FAW, but work like O.S.S. in conjunction with Overload.. that would be a really fun single target option.
And I am not sure why people think I am DPSer. I do more of a what's your budget/theme/whatever restriction and I can help you make a workable ship for that price/restrictions more than chasing DPS. I make my ships generally on themes. Or because something looks cool. I just do it in a manner where I have a workable ship is all. I don't even chase DPS as a side quest. I just happen to know a lot of the mechanics.
I think it was your "if you can't solo it don't do it" line that everyone's jumping on. Its instantly showing an attitude that feels combative towards people who can't solo a TFO. And your defense of that line contributes to the percieved attitude, and makes others defensive.
Thank YOU! someone else gets it. the sad thing is the few times I queued for a tfo (even easy ones) I get t comments very similar to it.
Comments
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I fully understand the motivations to explain one’s own failures but doing so by insinuating that only those without real live obligations can become good at this game is highly misleading. There is also no basis for equating DPSing with trollish behavior.
Both he and DPSer know that; unfortunately those in the learning process or completely new to this game could get a wrong picture here, hence my reply.
I hope I did not contribute to that misconception because preventing such attitudes was the #1 reason to become good at PvE myself. In general, the better you get the less you start to expect from your team-mates in public PvE.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
That is the exact opposite of what most of us are saying. Try reading the comments again, but this time filter out your own bias and personal insecurities.
There is no us, you or them.. we're all in the same boat.
The problem is that if many players have a habit of joining queues they can't play, odds are they'll get teamed with each other and the whining starts when there's nobody there to carry them.
I think it was your "if you can't solo it don't do it" line that everyone's jumping on. Its instantly showing an attitude that feels combative towards people who can't solo a TFO. And your defense of that line contributes to the percieved attitude, and makes others defensive.
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'The weapon proc from Advanced Beam Arrays now grants a scaling buff to Advanced Beam Critical Severity, instead of Bonus Damage.'
there goes your 80K
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
what i want to say, is you don't need to follow the dps race for being efficient in tfo's.
in the current state of the game, you don't need to be mega/extra/uber powerful. 3 players can do easily the job, even on ground, but without the optionals.
The game was more difficult when i started to play, and we played with MK XII stuff, not even purple because the prices in the exchange were ridiculous, 30 mil ec for a tac console. The ground stfs were difficult also, I spent a long long long time, in the old borg stfs to grind all the maco armors.
the main is problem is that a lot of players don't read the instructions. And don't try to learn how to figh the different foes.
I played in gravity kill, with 4 science captains who spent their time to use gravity well on the tzen. I tried to explain to them how to fight the tzen, and i earnt only insults "TRIBBLE...., i do what i want" for example. I tried to communicate again and again, but finally I left, ; the tfo was unplayable.
A lot of players spent too much time in the borg tfos, and don't know how to play the others.
it is funny in std1, suddendly players discover that the bops try to flank them. they are destroyed and rage quit.
That's why you take the leaver penalty in TFO's and leave them to it
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
lol.. I was about to post this almost word for word.
Nicely done reyan.
This is what annoys me most: players who don't try to play the objectives. This is one thing where many "non DPS" players could shine - they still activate stuff or close portals just as fast and can contribute a lot. People fighting with decoy mobs for the entirety of the TFO though ... sometimes you even get complaints that you suck because optionals were failed, when three of the players didn't do a single thing for them, yet they're the ones complaining.
True another classic is Grethor 1st stage instead of attacking the 2 task forces around the starbase and shipyard they go for the asteroid field or in the 2nd stage ignore closing radiation portals and fight the endless mobs closing their portals
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
The dark side is strong with him! Going forward the jealousy and resentment of others will only fuel @reyan01 to grow even stronger.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
ingame: @Felisean
EDIT: Energy Web is no good due to the long cooldown. Crescent Wave Discharge might be worth a look.
EDIT2: Overwhelming_Force ruled out its only on first shot.
This.
It now might be optimal to keep both powers similar to how people currently do with Cannon Scatter Volley and Rapid Fire. It's been a common tactic for a while to use Rapid Fire on big single targets and Scatter Volley on Mobs. The buff to BO now adds that versatility to Beam Builds, which is great.
What I would really like to see them do is remove the silly firing cycle slow down from Surgical Strikes so that it would actually be usable. I would love to build a ship like the Eclipse with a SS/BO Single Target Build. Make SS share cooldown with FAW, but work like O.S.S. in conjunction with Overload.. that would be a really fun single target option.
Thank YOU! someone else gets it. the sad thing is the few times I queued for a tfo (even easy ones) I get t comments very similar to it.