While I got used to the concept of "hard" fail criteria on Elite maps I recall they had a devastating impact on the overall public PvE situation with Delta Rising when they were introduced for Advanced.
“Soft” fail criteria (as in elapsing mission timers for example) for teams that don’t do a thing on Advanced maps are something I doubt anybody will have an issue with except those who expect AFK scenarios.
Turning current time gates into such soft-fails would down-class this AFK mentality to Normal difficulty without hindering Advanced teams at the attempt to play in public here.
-> Elite: Hard fails for missing out anything important.
-> Advanced: Soft fails in form of overall mission timer with anything important being optional.
-> Normal: Time-gated autowin without any fails but the chance to do better via overall mission timer being optional.
That would be a compromise for anybody if rewards would ever start to reflect that.
What's "soft" about time limits as opposed to other conditions? A fail is a fail is a fail.
The thing is, "anything important being optional" IS auto-win. It's what we have now. With nothing the players are actually required do, the timer is a guaranteed victory coundown.
The problematic fail conditions were the ones that had no logical reason to be fail conditions, like ISA's "don't let them heal the transformers." The transformers being healed does not prevent the mission objective ("destroy the gateway") from being completed, just means the team needs to damage them again. While it's plausible for the team to score optional brownie points for avoiding that bit of inefficiency, there's no logical reason to abort the mission over it.
But if the mission objective is to defend X, then X being killed does prevent the mission objective from being completed and therefore the mission should obviously fail.
Hehe, I remember having a similar reaction when my boss introduced the concept of “soft”-deadlines at work so I’m with you.
My idea here was motivated to end the AFK concept for a map by simply forcing a team to interact or it won’t conclude. In your ISA example we do have a very long 15 minutes or so overall mission timer. If you don’t remove the critters in this timeframe you wasted your time and unlike so many other maps you don’t get an auto reward. The result is nobody will invite you to ISA afk runs right?
Hard fail criteria would be the nanite spheres healing the generator before it is destroyed. In my experience such rather brief windows do not sit well with teams consisting of random players and are therefore better left for elite difficulty settings.
So in short my proposed concept of soft fails does not pose a problem for anybody but those who either want to start AFK parties or for teams that are so bad that they clearly should not have started an advanced match anyway.
So, your definition of "softness" is about the length of time a particular condition is in-play? OK.
That's fine for ISA (and the healing objective is complete nonsense anyway), but most missions are not about simply removing a fixed number of critters from the map. Most of them in fact have infinitely respawning critters that are simply impossible to remove.
What I'm questioning here is how do you propose keeping "anything important" optional and at the same time require players to do...something...in missions where simply shooting the enemies doesn't actually do anything? We already have an invisible damage counter to make sure everyone shoots something, for all the good it does.
Then on the other hand we have missions where it simply makes no sense for the primary objective of the mission to be entirely optional. Like all the missions where you have to defend something, but nothing happens if they die.
At any rate, I've been around long enough to have seen some truly stupid statements about how to play missions. I think the dumbest ever was someone saying that the Borg enemies actually use the color you wear to determine aggro priority.
I heard something once that Scimitars prioritized Sovereigns.
7. Hugging the Scimitar in KSA forcing it to cloak immediately after decloaking.
There used to be a "5 kilometer rule", where you stayed OUT 5 km from Donatra to prevent her from cloaking at all. Cryptic changed that so she cloaks regardless of your distance. So it is pretty much no longer an issue. She will cloak no matter where you are. On top of her or almost out of weapons range. Some days she's more cloak happy than others. But she is still vulnerable to a Megawell.
If i remember right, I think one of the devs (not sure if it is still true) said the closer you get to Dontara the more "likely" or increased chances she will cloak. So while she still cloaks regardless of distance, but the closer you are, the more likely she will.
i can basically confirm that - every time i get dumped into a khitomer, someone always ends up riding donatra's TRIBBLE and she cloaks like she's on crack...and even if no one seems to be close to her aside from pets, she does it anyway, so i think they're included in that - which, if true, makes carriers a massive DETRIMENT instead of help in that mission
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Most of them in fact have infinitely respawning critters that are simply impossible to remove.
What I'm questioning here is how do you propose keeping "anything important" optional and at the same time require players to do...something...in missions where simply shooting the enemies doesn't actually do anything?
I would do so in advanced by attaching optionals to timers without removing the necessity to tend to the respective tasks.
To elaborate better let’s do a virtual play of Counterpoint according to my proposed changes earlier in this thread together, shall we?
The mission gets an overall timer of 20 minutes posing an easy to fulfill (soft) fail criteria for both advanced and elite.
- We start by killing the initial spawn. If we don’t do so the next phase won’t trigger.
- 5 rifts would open then which we need to be closed or the next phase won’t trigger. In advanced we get a 5 minute time-window for that to meet an optional granting more marks while not fulfilling this in elite in those 5 minutes leads to a (hard) fail terminating the mission.
- After the last rift is closed we need to transport 15 troops (10 would do as well for me) or the next phase won’t trigger. In advanced we get a 10 minutes time-window for that to meet an optional granting more marks while not fulfilling this in elite in those 10 minutes leads to a (hard) fail terminating the mission. The optional to keep mirror DS9 below 50% health can easily be transformed from an average percentage of the time-gate we have now to a direct value within the parameters of the timeframe I suggest for this phase. On both difficulties I’d suggest this to be an optional and not a fail.
- When the last troops are transported the boss fights starts and need to be dealt with or the map does not complete.
With such a concept this mission could never serve as an AFK platform as all (important) task need to be fulfilled. The encouragement would be there for advanced via additional marks right along with a lerning process for elite. In both advanced and elite I would not attach the final boss-fight to any optional/fail timer to not hinder low DPS groups to play PvE while maintan the incentive for high DPS groups to simply play it faster.
For me as veteran player the map would now pose a price I’d pay and not an RTFO turn off as I could solo it in advanced without being annoyed by a bad team while still being happy with a good team speeding things up.
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pete, you could transport 15 teams on your own (thats the elite condition). ryan did that long ago already, solo counterpoint elite ^^
for advanced i would say like 25-30 teams transported, for elite like 70 or so
but i would add soft your soft fail to normal, and a hard and even harder for advanced/elite. and remove all the stupid "auto-win" conditions.. thats just stupid
pete, you could transport 15 teams on your own (thats the elite condition). ryan did that long ago already, solo counterpoint elite ^^
Yea, that’s why I used that figure. Being able to solo this condition myself in advanced and elite would stop me (or anybody else good enough) from being annoyed by underperforming team-mates posing an obstacle to select and play that map in the first place.
for advanced i would say like 25-30 teams transported, for elite like 70 or so
but i would add soft your soft fail to normal, and a hard and even harder for advanced/elite. and remove all the stupid "auto-win" conditions.. thats just stupid
While I fully agree with the stop to AFK/auto conclusion philosophy and the maintaining of soft fails I am sick and tired of any time gated content demanding me to do X for Y minutes. It is the very borderline which hinders me to tend to maps (outside endeavors maybe but we have reroll-tokens here) in the first place while otherwise I would play it every day bringing life to private channels and public PvE in this game alike.
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Most of them in fact have infinitely respawning critters that are simply impossible to remove.
What I'm questioning here is how do you propose keeping "anything important" optional and at the same time require players to do...something...in missions where simply shooting the enemies doesn't actually do anything?
I would do so in advanced by attaching optionals to timers without removing the necessity to tend to the respective tasks.
To elaborate better let’s do a virtual play of Counterpoint according to my proposed changes earlier in this thread together, shall we?
The mission gets an overall timer of 20 minutes posing an easy to fulfill (soft) fail criteria for both advanced and elite.
- We start by killing the initial spawn. If we don’t do so the next phase won’t trigger.
- 5 rifts would open then which we need to be closed or the next phase won’t trigger. In advanced we get a 5 minute time-window for that to meet an optional granting more marks while not fulfilling this in elite in those 5 minutes leads to a (hard) fail terminating the mission.
- After the last rift is closed we need to transport 15 troops (10 would do as well for me) or the next phase won’t trigger. In advanced we get a 10 minutes time-window for that to meet an optional granting more marks while not fulfilling this in elite in those 10 minutes leads to a (hard) fail terminating the mission. The optional to keep mirror DS9 below 50% health can easily be transformed from an average percentage of the time-gate we have now to a direct value within the parameters of the timeframe I suggest for this phase. On both difficulties I’d suggest this to be an optional and not a fail.
- When the last troops are transported the boss fights starts and need to be dealt with or the map does not complete.
With such a concept this mission could never serve as an AFK platform as all (important) task need to be fulfilled. The encouragement would be there for advanced via additional marks right along with a lerning process for elite. In both advanced and elite I would not attach the final boss-fight to any optional/fail timer to not hinder low DPS groups to play PvE while maintan the incentive for high DPS groups to simply play it faster.
For me as veteran player the map would now pose a price I’d pay and not an RTFO turn off as I could solo it in advanced without being annoyed by a bad team while still being happy with a good team speeding things up.
Then just to clear any misunderstandings, why did you say:
-> Advanced: Soft fails in form of overall mission timer with anything important being optional.
If all the important tasks actually are required? Just a mistake?
Anyway, that mission flow seems rather logical, but if the troop transport phase didn't have a fixed time-gate, it would need to be made subject to damage interrupts or it would be no contest. And I would put in an additional fail condition for letting DS9 get killed.
Then there are pure defense survival missions like Dranuur/Pahvo Gauntlet that just plain need a fail for the defended objective dying, because it's the only thing players are supposed to do.
Most of them in fact have infinitely respawning critters that are simply impossible to remove.
What I'm questioning here is how do you propose keeping "anything important" optional and at the same time require players to do...something...in missions where simply shooting the enemies doesn't actually do anything?
I would do so in advanced by attaching optionals to timers without removing the necessity to tend to the respective tasks.
To elaborate better let’s do a virtual play of Counterpoint according to my proposed changes earlier in this thread together, shall we?
The mission gets an overall timer of 20 minutes posing an easy to fulfill (soft) fail criteria for both advanced and elite.
- We start by killing the initial spawn. If we don’t do so the next phase won’t trigger.
- 5 rifts would open then which we need to be closed or the next phase won’t trigger. In advanced we get a 5 minute time-window for that to meet an optional granting more marks while not fulfilling this in elite in those 5 minutes leads to a (hard) fail terminating the mission.
- After the last rift is closed we need to transport 15 troops (10 would do as well for me) or the next phase won’t trigger. In advanced we get a 10 minutes time-window for that to meet an optional granting more marks while not fulfilling this in elite in those 10 minutes leads to a (hard) fail terminating the mission. The optional to keep mirror DS9 below 50% health can easily be transformed from an average percentage of the time-gate we have now to a direct value within the parameters of the timeframe I suggest for this phase. On both difficulties I’d suggest this to be an optional and not a fail.
- When the last troops are transported the boss fights starts and need to be dealt with or the map does not complete.
With such a concept this mission could never serve as an AFK platform as all (important) task need to be fulfilled. The encouragement would be there for advanced via additional marks right along with a lerning process for elite. In both advanced and elite I would not attach the final boss-fight to any optional/fail timer to not hinder low DPS groups to play PvE while maintan the incentive for high DPS groups to simply play it faster.
For me as veteran player the map would now pose a price I’d pay and not an RTFO turn off as I could solo it in advanced without being annoyed by a bad team while still being happy with a good team speeding things up.
Then just to clear any misunderstandings, why did you say:
-> Advanced: Soft fails in form of overall mission timer with anything important being optional.
If all the important tasks actually are required? Just a mistake?
Yep, I should have written “with anything important being attached to optional timers in advanced and fail timers in elite”. Thanks for pointing this out.
No idea how to handle Dranuur. Probably making the survival of at least 1 station mandatory in all difficulties. The one and only time I succeeded on that map on elite was with a very good team, pre-arranged builds and off-game communication.
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So, Gravity Kills. I have several characters, a main toon who has pretty decent gear/traits and a bunch of alts that are in the process of being improved. On my newest alt (he's level 56) I slotted the new Risa Corvette, and purchased a bunch of uncommon, level-specific gear for that ship. I'm not EC-rich and purchased what I could. I went to do a random *normal* TFO, and sure enough - Gravity Kills.
I know how to work this TFO and have done it many times. My alt's ship and character are just not equipped to do this, even on normal. Any attempt to scoot/fight my way in and snag Hawking particles is pretty much disaster as the Tzenkethi spam instantly shreds shields and hull. We completed this normal TFO but my ability to contribute to completing this was really limited. It'll get better but it's going to be a slog to get there.
So, Gravity Kills. I have several characters, a main toon who has pretty decent gear/traits and a bunch of alts that are in the process of being improved. On my newest alt (he's level 56) I slotted the new Risa Corvette, and purchased a bunch of uncommon, level-specific gear for that ship. I'm not EC-rich and purchased what I could. I went to do a random *normal* TFO, and sure enough - Gravity Kills.
I know how to work this TFO and have done it many times. My alt's ship and character are just not equipped to do this, even on normal. Any attempt to scoot/fight my way in and snag Hawking particles is pretty much disaster as the Tzenkethi spam instantly shreds shields and hull. We completed this normal TFO but my ability to contribute to completing this was really limited. It'll get better but it's going to be a slog to get there.
Then don't even try to go through them. It's possible to fly around the tzenkethi on full impulse, wide enough to not get fired on at all, while other players distract them.
When you fight the Tzenkethi dreadnaught, try tractoring it wit the three tractor beams console ability or the Fek'leri chains of fire and drag it into the black hole, that has worked for me three times already.
If you can't solo a queue, don't sign up and there is no issue. I have soloed gravity kills advanced and well ISA solo is done for S&G all the time. Even in normal, I can see gravity kill being an issue for somebody new to the game, but being able to solo an ISN run should kind of be a given before you hit random queue button. If you manually picked ISN and GKN...seriously...WTF?!?
some of us have lives outside STO and being a DPS troll is not a priority
If you can't solo a queue, don't sign up and there is no issue. I have soloed gravity kills advanced and well ISA solo is done for S&G all the time. Even in normal, I can see gravity kill being an issue for somebody new to the game, but being able to solo an ISN run should kind of be a given before you hit random queue button. If you manually picked ISN and GKN...seriously...WTF?!?
The bigger problem I've observed is that MANY players try to ride coattails of other players. They are insufficiently geared or lack knowledge of basic strategies in various queues. They simply want the ADV rewards, but can't contribute in any meaningful manner. In many queues, that's fine. But some require a modicum of strategy and coordination to complete with optionals.
Thank you very much for pointing that out.
As a DPSer I’m reluctant to do so because the stigma of being a mean elitist always precedes me.
I think that exactly this is the very reason why cryptic cut every dog leash on power creep and engaged it at warp speed. If you go for it things like underperforming team mates completely loose relevance on the maps where your build matters.
these are the examples of players that really turn off playing any sort of TFO. I don't do max DPS my builds are not optimal. I don't break my tail to get everything optimized.. I HAVE a job I don't want STO to be a second one. but there will always be whiney little boys like these two out there to toss thier insults. since i cannot control them I am forced to not play half the game content to avoid them.
Age old discussion, stuff is too hard. No stupid L2P, stuff is too easy. Easy fix for this problem just make the rewards the same no matter the difficulty, bam fixed. Now folks that want difficult stuff to do can in do so in peace. Folks that just want to enjoy the game casually are not forced into the difficult content to get what they need for various things. I know I know, if you make the rewards the same no one will play the more difficult content, harder should mean more rewards. Well if you are really wanting difficult stuff to do because you enjoy it, the rewards should not matter. You are getting rewards playing at the difficulty you enjoy. Also, this would keep folks that don't enjoy the difficult content out of your hair.
Cirran
P.S. In the end it is more about epeen and exclusivity than playing at the level you enjoy.
If you can't solo a queue, don't sign up and there is no issue. I have soloed gravity kills advanced and well ISA solo is done for S&G all the time. Even in normal, I can see gravity kill being an issue for somebody new to the game, but being able to solo an ISN run should kind of be a given before you hit random queue button. If you manually picked ISN and GKN...seriously...WTF?!?
some of us have lives outside STO and being a DPS troll is not a priority
Coldnapalm may be part of the DPS community, but his comment is not far off. As someone who exclusively PUGs i always count on 2-3 inexperienced players in a team, While it may be a hyperbole to say one has to be able to solo a TFO or stay out, it is recommended that you know your stuff and can carry 2-3 teammates in random teams.
This is not hubris, but merely recognizing the situation.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
If you can't solo a queue, don't sign up and there is no issue. I have soloed gravity kills advanced and well ISA solo is done for S&G all the time. Even in normal, I can see gravity kill being an issue for somebody new to the game, but being able to solo an ISN run should kind of be a given before you hit random queue button. If you manually picked ISN and GKN...seriously...WTF?!?
some of us have lives outside STO and being a DPS troll is not a priority
So let me get this straight..
Queuing for content where you know you can finish the job alone if the need arises.. that's being a 'troll,' but queuing for content you can't complete and hoping others carry you to a free reward.. that's acceptable?
I don't know where the idea comes from that you need to spend your entire life playing this game in order to be able to handle it's content, it's like saying it takes many lifetimes to learn how to open a jar of pickles.
Dude.. the game isn't that hard. Ok, maybe you don't have to get to where you can solo content, but yes.. you should count on at least a couple players in your PUG group that can't carry their weight. He queues for content where he knows he can make up the difference.. isn't that better then just leaving? And you call him a troll for that?
STO isn't "too hard" but I do understand why there are so many people that are bad at the game. They are just Star Trek fans plain and simple and they have zero experience with MMOs or RPGs and their mechanics. They need things explained to them by more experienced players and need to have their entire way of playing the game completely reeducated by players that do know how to play the game. The reason is that the game itself is incapable of showing them how to improve as they level up and they're suddenly faced with actual levels of difficulty.
Back in the day I was a brick in queues and my contribution was probably next to nothing. Like most players, I was simply a Star Trek fan who had never in my life played an MMO. I sat aimlessly firing all my mixed up weapons at a borg probe while repeatedly dying. I did this while activating all my boff powers, which by the way were not synchronized with my mish mash of trash gear. I also didn't know WHEN to activate my captain powers and why that was so important. This is the typical new endgame player experience. Someone who doesn't know how or why their captain powers and boff powers exist and when and why to select them and synchronize them all. They just need a helping hand.
Then add to all of this, ship console selections like tactical consoles and universal/science/engineering consoles. Plus your other gear like warp core/shields/impulse/deflector not even to mention traits/ship traits/rep traits/specializations. AND EDIT HERE: I even forgot to mention THE SKILLTREE. All of this is REALLY complex to someone that's new and it's no surprise that some players don't comprehend all of it.
It's never a surprise that people come out and say that TFO's are too difficult because many of them come from a completely different gaming background. Now, of course it's not true that TFO's are "too difficult." It's also not true that those new players are just dumb. They just lack the previous game experience to know that they need to find synchronized combinations of gear, traits and tactics to perform better. And since the game itself doesn't teach them how to do this, it's up to us as players to teach each them. That's how I stopped being a liability and after being helped out, I've tried to do my part to help others out in our armada when they ask for help.
That last part is important there. Since many new players are just Star Trek fans and not seasoned MMO players, some of them will just give up and move on from the game. It's inevitable. The ones that stay though will ask for help and we need to be ready and willing to help when the time comes.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
If you can't solo a queue, don't sign up and there is no issue. I have soloed gravity kills advanced and well ISA solo is done for S&G all the time. Even in normal, I can see gravity kill being an issue for somebody new to the game, but being able to solo an ISN run should kind of be a given before you hit random queue button. If you manually picked ISN and GKN...seriously...WTF?!?
some of us have lives outside STO and being a DPS troll is not a priority
DPS neither says something about your social behavior in a videogame nor does it give a estimation about the average time you spend online. The former is defined by your character, the latter by the number of toons you wish to maintain at what level of progression.
In my experience it only takes 10-15 minutes per day per toon on an average even if you wish to set yourself the highest goals for PvE. With the endeavors one should add another 10-15 minutes for the account. Granted, this means that you play STO regularly but every event, every reputation and every other slider shows, that this is how this game is expected to be played.
So I would not worry much about the “lives” of DPSer. If they apply the same min/max and performance attitude they have towards their virtual starships elsewhere, they should be alright. In any case a lot whole better than those who feel the need to point fingers in a video game because they are jealous or have other failures.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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The game has plenty of content that can be soloed by anyone, up to and including content that will win itself 100% by itself no matter what the players do or don't do. Even on "Advanced."
At any rate, I've been around long enough to have seen some truly stupid statements about how to play missions. I think the dumbest ever was someone saying that the Borg enemies actually use the color you wear to determine aggro priority.
I heard something once that Scimitars prioritized Sovereigns.
7. Hugging the Scimitar in KSA forcing it to cloak immediately after decloaking.
There used to be a "5 kilometer rule", where you stayed OUT 5 km from Donatra to prevent her from cloaking at all. Cryptic changed that so she cloaks regardless of your distance. So it is pretty much no longer an issue. She will cloak no matter where you are. On top of her or almost out of weapons range. Some days she's more cloak happy than others. But she is still vulnerable to a Megawell.
it seems to be like 75/50/25 or so for cloaking. but usualy it doesnt cloak more than that when the one with the aggro isnt below 5 km. if the person with the aggro is less than 5 km away she tends to cloak more often usualy. but i might test that again at some point ^^
I'm not sure, but raising the number of Teams delivered to the realm of 50 or so does not make things more 'Elite', just annoyingly longer.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The game has plenty of content that can be soloed by anyone, up to and including content that will win itself 100% by itself no matter what the players do or don't do. Even on "Advanced."
yea the good old autowin.. there are actually some queues doing that on elite too...
thats defnitly sad
it seems to be like 75/50/25 or so for cloaking. but usualy it doesnt cloak more than that when the one with the aggro isnt below 5 km. if the person with the aggro is less than 5 km away she tends to cloak more often usualy. but i might test that again at some point ^^
Might be worth looking into as well. In my experience though I will say that it doesn't seem to matter much anymore. Only way to really know for sure would be to go in with a premade so that you can control all variables.
> @coldnapalm said: > vetteguy904 wrote: » > > coldnapalm wrote: » > > If you can't solo a queue, don't sign up and there is no issue. I have soloed gravity kills advanced and well ISA solo is done for S&G all the time. Even in normal, I can see gravity kill being an issue for somebody new to the game, but being able to solo an ISN run should kind of be a given before you hit random queue button. If you manually picked ISN and GKN...seriously...WTF?!? > > > > > some of us have lives outside STO and being a DPS troll is not a priority > > > > > So...enough to get common mark XII gear with vendor boff abilities (okay so cannons ships will have to buy CSV 3 from auction house for 25k EC) is just too much work and beyond your capability. Which you should be able to do after you just do the story missions to get you to level 50. Because that should be MORE than enough for you to solo ISN...or even ISA is you are good enough. Much less getting VR gears from story rewards. You really don't need all that much. I sure as hell don't use all the expensive stuff that the DPS people seem to like to use. I get stuff because I think it looks cool and make builds that work around those things. All on playing less than an hour a day. Seriously, if you don't have time to play this game for the tiny fraction of time I spend...maybe you should get your life in order so you have more free time before picking up a game. I mean even when I was active, it was an hour a day or so. Now it's like maybe 2-3 hours a week.
> @coldnapalm said: > vetteguy904 wrote: » > > coldnapalm wrote: » > > If you can't solo a queue, don't sign up and there is no issue. I have soloed gravity kills advanced and well ISA solo is done for S&G all the time. Even in normal, I can see gravity kill being an issue for somebody new to the game, but being able to solo an ISN run should kind of be a given before you hit random queue button. If you manually picked ISN and GKN...seriously...WTF?!? > > > > > some of us have lives outside STO and being a DPS troll is not a priority > > > > > So...enough to get common mark XII gear with vendor boff abilities (okay so cannons ships will have to buy CSV 3 from auction house for 25k EC) is just too much work and beyond your capability. Which you should be able to do after you just do the story missions to get you to level 50. Because that should be MORE than enough for you to solo ISN...or even ISA is you are good enough. Much less getting VR gears from story rewards. You really don't need all that much. I sure as hell don't use all the expensive stuff that the DPS people seem to like to use. I get stuff because I think it looks cool and make builds that work around those things. All on playing less than an hour a day. Seriously, if you don't have time to play this game for the tiny fraction of time I spend...maybe you should get your life in order so you have more free time before picking up a game. I mean even when I was active, it was an hour a day or so. Now it's like maybe 2-3 hours a week.
Id honestly pay to outfit anyone with 12 purple gear. It's all cheap enough these days. Not like the 30mil for one 12 tactical console when I first started playing.
I'm trying to figure out if the repsonses to Vetteguy are just trolling or actually defending the original statement that is If you cannot solo a TFO don't run it...
the hubris of most of you is appalling. you all have the exact attitude, "You suck at playing so stay out of MY GAME". Pray that most will continue to ignore you, without US, YOUR game will close down.
Comments
That's fine for ISA (and the healing objective is complete nonsense anyway), but most missions are not about simply removing a fixed number of critters from the map. Most of them in fact have infinitely respawning critters that are simply impossible to remove.
What I'm questioning here is how do you propose keeping "anything important" optional and at the same time require players to do...something...in missions where simply shooting the enemies doesn't actually do anything? We already have an invisible damage counter to make sure everyone shoots something, for all the good it does.
Then on the other hand we have missions where it simply makes no sense for the primary objective of the mission to be entirely optional. Like all the missions where you have to defend something, but nothing happens if they die.
If i remember right, I think one of the devs (not sure if it is still true) said the closer you get to Dontara the more "likely" or increased chances she will cloak. So while she still cloaks regardless of distance, but the closer you are, the more likely she will.
Wish i had saved that thread so i could link it
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I would do so in advanced by attaching optionals to timers without removing the necessity to tend to the respective tasks.
To elaborate better let’s do a virtual play of Counterpoint according to my proposed changes earlier in this thread together, shall we?
The mission gets an overall timer of 20 minutes posing an easy to fulfill (soft) fail criteria for both advanced and elite.
- We start by killing the initial spawn. If we don’t do so the next phase won’t trigger.
- 5 rifts would open then which we need to be closed or the next phase won’t trigger. In advanced we get a 5 minute time-window for that to meet an optional granting more marks while not fulfilling this in elite in those 5 minutes leads to a (hard) fail terminating the mission.
- After the last rift is closed we need to transport 15 troops (10 would do as well for me) or the next phase won’t trigger. In advanced we get a 10 minutes time-window for that to meet an optional granting more marks while not fulfilling this in elite in those 10 minutes leads to a (hard) fail terminating the mission. The optional to keep mirror DS9 below 50% health can easily be transformed from an average percentage of the time-gate we have now to a direct value within the parameters of the timeframe I suggest for this phase. On both difficulties I’d suggest this to be an optional and not a fail.
- When the last troops are transported the boss fights starts and need to be dealt with or the map does not complete.
With such a concept this mission could never serve as an AFK platform as all (important) task need to be fulfilled. The encouragement would be there for advanced via additional marks right along with a lerning process for elite. In both advanced and elite I would not attach the final boss-fight to any optional/fail timer to not hinder low DPS groups to play PvE while maintan the incentive for high DPS groups to simply play it faster.
For me as veteran player the map would now pose a price I’d pay and not an RTFO turn off as I could solo it in advanced without being annoyed by a bad team while still being happy with a good team speeding things up.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
for advanced i would say like 25-30 teams transported, for elite like 70 or so
but i would add soft your soft fail to normal, and a hard and even harder for advanced/elite. and remove all the stupid "auto-win" conditions.. thats just stupid
ingame: @Felisean
While I fully agree with the stop to AFK/auto conclusion philosophy and the maintaining of soft fails I am sick and tired of any time gated content demanding me to do X for Y minutes. It is the very borderline which hinders me to tend to maps (outside endeavors maybe but we have reroll-tokens here) in the first place while otherwise I would play it every day bringing life to private channels and public PvE in this game alike.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Anyway, that mission flow seems rather logical, but if the troop transport phase didn't have a fixed time-gate, it would need to be made subject to damage interrupts or it would be no contest. And I would put in an additional fail condition for letting DS9 get killed.
Then there are pure defense survival missions like Dranuur/Pahvo Gauntlet that just plain need a fail for the defended objective dying, because it's the only thing players are supposed to do.
Yep, I should have written “with anything important being attached to optional timers in advanced and fail timers in elite”. Thanks for pointing this out.
No idea how to handle Dranuur. Probably making the survival of at least 1 station mandatory in all difficulties. The one and only time I succeeded on that map on elite was with a very good team, pre-arranged builds and off-game communication.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I know how to work this TFO and have done it many times. My alt's ship and character are just not equipped to do this, even on normal. Any attempt to scoot/fight my way in and snag Hawking particles is pretty much disaster as the Tzenkethi spam instantly shreds shields and hull. We completed this normal TFO but my ability to contribute to completing this was really limited. It'll get better but it's going to be a slog to get there.
some of us have lives outside STO and being a DPS troll is not a priority
these are the examples of players that really turn off playing any sort of TFO. I don't do max DPS my builds are not optimal. I don't break my tail to get everything optimized.. I HAVE a job I don't want STO to be a second one. but there will always be whiney little boys like these two out there to toss thier insults. since i cannot control them I am forced to not play half the game content to avoid them.
Cirran
P.S. In the end it is more about epeen and exclusivity than playing at the level you enjoy.
@vetteguy904
Coldnapalm may be part of the DPS community, but his comment is not far off. As someone who exclusively PUGs i always count on 2-3 inexperienced players in a team, While it may be a hyperbole to say one has to be able to solo a TFO or stay out, it is recommended that you know your stuff and can carry 2-3 teammates in random teams.
This is not hubris, but merely recognizing the situation.
So let me get this straight..
Queuing for content where you know you can finish the job alone if the need arises.. that's being a 'troll,' but queuing for content you can't complete and hoping others carry you to a free reward.. that's acceptable?
I don't know where the idea comes from that you need to spend your entire life playing this game in order to be able to handle it's content, it's like saying it takes many lifetimes to learn how to open a jar of pickles.
Dude.. the game isn't that hard. Ok, maybe you don't have to get to where you can solo content, but yes.. you should count on at least a couple players in your PUG group that can't carry their weight. He queues for content where he knows he can make up the difference.. isn't that better then just leaving? And you call him a troll for that?
Back in the day I was a brick in queues and my contribution was probably next to nothing. Like most players, I was simply a Star Trek fan who had never in my life played an MMO. I sat aimlessly firing all my mixed up weapons at a borg probe while repeatedly dying. I did this while activating all my boff powers, which by the way were not synchronized with my mish mash of trash gear. I also didn't know WHEN to activate my captain powers and why that was so important. This is the typical new endgame player experience. Someone who doesn't know how or why their captain powers and boff powers exist and when and why to select them and synchronize them all. They just need a helping hand.
Then add to all of this, ship console selections like tactical consoles and universal/science/engineering consoles. Plus your other gear like warp core/shields/impulse/deflector not even to mention traits/ship traits/rep traits/specializations. AND EDIT HERE: I even forgot to mention THE SKILLTREE. All of this is REALLY complex to someone that's new and it's no surprise that some players don't comprehend all of it.
It's never a surprise that people come out and say that TFO's are too difficult because many of them come from a completely different gaming background. Now, of course it's not true that TFO's are "too difficult." It's also not true that those new players are just dumb. They just lack the previous game experience to know that they need to find synchronized combinations of gear, traits and tactics to perform better. And since the game itself doesn't teach them how to do this, it's up to us as players to teach each them. That's how I stopped being a liability and after being helped out, I've tried to do my part to help others out in our armada when they ask for help.
That last part is important there. Since many new players are just Star Trek fans and not seasoned MMO players, some of them will just give up and move on from the game. It's inevitable. The ones that stay though will ask for help and we need to be ready and willing to help when the time comes.
DPS neither says something about your social behavior in a videogame nor does it give a estimation about the average time you spend online. The former is defined by your character, the latter by the number of toons you wish to maintain at what level of progression.
In my experience it only takes 10-15 minutes per day per toon on an average even if you wish to set yourself the highest goals for PvE. With the endeavors one should add another 10-15 minutes for the account. Granted, this means that you play STO regularly but every event, every reputation and every other slider shows, that this is how this game is expected to be played.
So I would not worry much about the “lives” of DPSer. If they apply the same min/max and performance attitude they have towards their virtual starships elsewhere, they should be alright. In any case a lot whole better than those who feel the need to point fingers in a video game because they are jealous or have other failures.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
it seems to be like 75/50/25 or so for cloaking. but usualy it doesnt cloak more than that when the one with the aggro isnt below 5 km. if the person with the aggro is less than 5 km away she tends to cloak more often usualy. but i might test that again at some point ^^
ingame: @Felisean
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
yea the good old autowin.. there are actually some queues doing that on elite too...
thats defnitly sad
ingame: @Felisean
Might be worth looking into as well. In my experience though I will say that it doesn't seem to matter much anymore. Only way to really know for sure would be to go in with a premade so that you can control all variables.
> vetteguy904 wrote: »
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> coldnapalm wrote: »
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> If you can't solo a queue, don't sign up and there is no issue. I have soloed gravity kills advanced and well ISA solo is done for S&G all the time. Even in normal, I can see gravity kill being an issue for somebody new to the game, but being able to solo an ISN run should kind of be a given before you hit random queue button. If you manually picked ISN and GKN...seriously...WTF?!?
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> some of us have lives outside STO and being a DPS troll is not a priority
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> So...enough to get common mark XII gear with vendor boff abilities (okay so cannons ships will have to buy CSV 3 from auction house for 25k EC) is just too much work and beyond your capability. Which you should be able to do after you just do the story missions to get you to level 50. Because that should be MORE than enough for you to solo ISN...or even ISA is you are good enough. Much less getting VR gears from story rewards. You really don't need all that much. I sure as hell don't use all the expensive stuff that the DPS people seem to like to use. I get stuff because I think it looks cool and make builds that work around those things. All on playing less than an hour a day. Seriously, if you don't have time to play this game for the tiny fraction of time I spend...maybe you should get your life in order so you have more free time before picking up a game. I mean even when I was active, it was an hour a day or so. Now it's like maybe 2-3 hours a week.
> @coldnapalm said:
> vetteguy904 wrote: »
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> coldnapalm wrote: »
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> If you can't solo a queue, don't sign up and there is no issue. I have soloed gravity kills advanced and well ISA solo is done for S&G all the time. Even in normal, I can see gravity kill being an issue for somebody new to the game, but being able to solo an ISN run should kind of be a given before you hit random queue button. If you manually picked ISN and GKN...seriously...WTF?!?
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> some of us have lives outside STO and being a DPS troll is not a priority
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> So...enough to get common mark XII gear with vendor boff abilities (okay so cannons ships will have to buy CSV 3 from auction house for 25k EC) is just too much work and beyond your capability. Which you should be able to do after you just do the story missions to get you to level 50. Because that should be MORE than enough for you to solo ISN...or even ISA is you are good enough. Much less getting VR gears from story rewards. You really don't need all that much. I sure as hell don't use all the expensive stuff that the DPS people seem to like to use. I get stuff because I think it looks cool and make builds that work around those things. All on playing less than an hour a day. Seriously, if you don't have time to play this game for the tiny fraction of time I spend...maybe you should get your life in order so you have more free time before picking up a game. I mean even when I was active, it was an hour a day or so. Now it's like maybe 2-3 hours a week.
Id honestly pay to outfit anyone with 12 purple gear. It's all cheap enough these days. Not like the 30mil for one 12 tactical console when I first started playing.
the hubris of most of you is appalling. you all have the exact attitude, "You suck at playing so stay out of MY GAME". Pray that most will continue to ignore you, without US, YOUR game will close down.