Manny Coto's team was planning to draw from Diane Duane's work with the Romulans in the latter seasons of ENT, but the series was cancelled before that. The continuation novels went ahead and did things like giving the show's Admiral Valdore a Rihannsu-style full name.
Me, I just wanted a DS9 sequel series exploring the ramifications of the Dominion War and Section 31's shenanigans.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
> @azrael605 said: > Reading through a synopsis of the story I see massive interference by the Federation in the internal civil war. Something every Trek captain would refuse to condone. Among many other issues. I love Duane's work on Trek novels for the most part, but this story just doesn't hold up.
It's TOS, Azrael. The Prime Directive isn't applied to peer nation-states in that time period (Gene Coon authorial intent, explicit per DSC). Kirk broke the PD on sound moral and practical grounds more than a dozen times, grounds that are just as applicable to The Empty Chair: the story has the antagonist Romulans try to blow up Sol at the climax for Prophets' sake.
They don't start doing that Prime Directive-as-dogma thing until TNG.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Imagine if the captain of the USS Enterprise CVN 65 decided to get involved in the in an internal Civil War in say Thailand now it doesn't matter what his moral grounds are it doesn't matter what anything else is that's a violation of international law there are equivalent statutes in place within the Star Trek universe that are every bit as binding on Kirk
While the Memory Beta synopsis is not too bad, like any synopsis it does not get into the details and subtleties. The situation is actually nothing like the one you propose, unless Thailand was holding hostages and gearing up for war with the US and using mock trials of those hostages to justify it.
In fact, most of the action was done by Romulan expatriate mercenaries (Ael and her crew) along with other Romulan factions, the Enterprise was just supporting them as part of an agreement to rescue the Federation citizens being held by the Empire, and that only after the Romulan Imperial government had launched (or attempted to launch) several major attacks on, and committed atrocities against, the Federation in the last few years, any one of which would have been grounds for war anyway. The Federation simply chose to limit their response instead of declaring open war.
Now, alter those assumptions slightly. CVN 65 has (or rather had) radio and satellite comms that let them consult with the Seventh Fleet in realtime, much like NCC-1701-D could in TNG.
However, in TOS cross-galaxy instantaneous communications didn't exist. The situation would be more analogous to the captain of HMS Enterprize receiving word that several of His Majesty's subjects are being held by the Siamese government and subjected to show trials in an effort to justify an attack on the British Empire. He can't exactly wait until a clipper can carry a message to the Crown and back again; if action is to be taken, it must be taken now, not sometime next week.
Now, alter those assumptions slightly. CVN 65 has (or rather had) radio and satellite comms that let them consult with the Seventh Fleet in realtime, much like NCC-1701-D could in TNG.
However, in TOS cross-galaxy instantaneous communications didn't exist. The situation would be more analogous to the captain of HMS Enterprize receiving word that several of His Majesty's subjects are being held by the Siamese government and subjected to show trials in an effort to justify an attack on the British Empire. He can't exactly wait until a clipper can carry a message to the Crown and back again; if action is to be taken, it must be taken now, not sometime next week.
Which is not the case in The Empty Chair, although Azrael isn't right either. Captain Kirk's mission orders in this case came directly from the President of the Federation and it's completely a national self-defense matter.
I haven't read the synopsis that Mem Beta has, but here's my version of the events in question (having read all four/five books):
My Enemy, My Ally: The Romulan government has been kidnapping Vulcans from the Federation for research into Vulcan psychic powers (which were lost from genetic manipulation the Rihannsu did to themselves after arriving in the Eisn system), using a star-manipulating technology called Sunseed to generate ion storms to mask their movements. Ael t'Rllaillieu considers this immoral and protests the actions within channels; the plotters respond by promoting her off her warbird Bloodwing and into a squadron command position where she is expected to die in the first wave of a planned invasion of Federation space. She instead defects to the Federation with Bloodwing and contacts Kirk (whom she's previously fought to a draw in skirmishes), and they work together to stop the project and the kidnappings--including rescuing the second all-Vulcan-crewed USS Intrepid, which had been captured by the Romulans.
The Romulan Way: Starfleet Intelligence tricks the Romulans into taking McCoy prisoner so he can make contact with Terise Haleakala-LoBrutto, a Starfleet anthropologist in deep cover on ch'Rihan as a senior household servant, Arrhae ir'Mnaeha t'Khellian, who hasn't made contact recently. They use Ael to exfiltrate McCoy during his show trial before the Senate, and she steals the Sword of S'task from its place in the Empty Chair (placed by S'task in memory of his teacher Surak), declaring that the Romulan government has forgotten the meaning of these symbols in pursuit of its own power and therefore is no longer worthy of them. "Arrhae"'s cover is reinforced by her actions during the escape: she's ennobled in her own right, becoming a junior senator and taking the name Arrhae i'Khellian t'Lhweirr.
Swordhunt (second half split for publication as Honor Blade, re-merged in omnibus edition): The neutral Lalairu mediate peace talks between the Federation and the Romulan government, which is running scared after the theft of the Sword of S'task and is clamping down on dissent internally, which naturally is starting to lead to uprisings in the outworlds. The Romulan bad guys use the talks to infiltrate a stealth ship carrying a Sunseed-derived nova bomb into Federation space, attempt to assassinate an inconvenient senator (he's saved by Arrhae, who gets him to the Enterprise), then attack Bloodwing (also present at the talks), which breaks the Lalairus' rules and gets all the warbirds present blown to flinders. Bloodwing and Enterprise realize the stealth ship was present but can't track it, and now know war is imminent.
The Empty Chair: Kirk aids the rebellion, spearheaded by the Romulan Ship-Clans previously banished from Romulus and Remus for political resistance, while working on a way to make Sunseed useless. At one point, he calls in a favor to Starfleet Command and gets a fleet of Connies sent to tip the balance at the critical Battle of Augo; the rest of the war it's all the rebels. The stealth ship from Swordhunt turns up in the Sol system and attempts to blow up the star; Kirk and Ael use technobabble to entangle Sol with the Romulan sun Eisn; Sol vomits up the nova bomb and it and the stealth ship are shot to pieces by Starfleet. Ael is acclaimed Empress and orders the Senate re-seated. Roll credits.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Yes.
I'd also like to see a Star Trek Destiny based, and an STO based series.
I don't think I'd like to see one based on STO, but definitely one that validates STO. Like, I'd definitely like an animated series that alternates among the three main flagship captains from the game (Shon, Jarok, and Koren.) It would acknowledge certain events from STO, such as the Iconian War, or even the destruction of the USS Belfast, without rehashing specific game content. And it would be recognised by CBS as canon.
I wouldn't actually rely on "Turnabout Intruder" - Janice is almost the textbook definition of the Unreliable Narrator. She says she was excluded from command school because Starfleet doesn't let women be captains - but her actions reveal a psychological profile that makes Harleen Quinzel look good, which seems to me a far more likely reason.
Her actual words were, IIRC, something to the effect of "Your world of Starfleet captains doesn't admit women." This has been interpreted, obviously, as TOS-era female officers being literally excluded from captaincy. And that's the most logical OOC explanation considering 1960s broadcast BS. But it's also been reinterpreted as Dr Lester's (crazy-*ss) evaluation of her LTR prospects with Kirk. They were in a physical and emotional relationship that ended badly because of his career progression. Successful Starfleet captains are almost exclusively bachelors, including the women, like Janeway. And that's what I prefer to believe of this supposedly Utopian future.
From Memory Alpha:
Lester's remark to Kirk, that his world of Starfleet captains did not admit women to their ranks, implies the Starfleet culture of the 2260s was more sexist than its 20th, 21st, 22nd or 24th century counterparts. An interpretation offered by the Star Trek Chronology (2nd ed., p. 78) suggests Lester's comment referred to Kirk's inability to maintain a relationship, due to his responsibilities as a starship captain. It also states that Gene Roddenberry, on the other hand, admitted in his later years that the line was simply sexist.
Also, yes, Janice was Hoopy McHoola. Hers is the definition of unreliable testimony.
I'd like to see a series set sometime in the chronology of Star Trek that doesn't directly involve Starfleet or any other rival military or military-esque institution. Something like, yes, Gary Seven's sixties spy-fi antics or the nineties Eugenics War(s) in the "past" or a totally civilian story in the "present" of the 24th or 25th century.
I'd genuinely love to see a serial blow-by-blow of Col Sean Christopher's mission to Saturn: Part Star Trek/Part Apollo 13/Part the Martian.
So if a tiawaneese "freedom fighter" group approached the captain of CVN 65 and told him the government was holding US citizens hostage that captain would be justified to enact military action in support of the so called freedom fighters? Nope sorry but that is still illegal.
1: it's Taiwan, so the analogy is fundamentally flawed. But for sake of argument we'll assume their government is belligerent to the US.
2: CVN 65 might in fact get involved. The way it'd go down is the commander of the vessel reports the situation and asks for instructions. If the admiralty decides a speedy solution is warranted, they might indeed tell the commander of CVN 65 to handle it.
I wonder how effective these series would be. CBS could be under the impression that if it doesn't involve Starfleet, then it won't be a successful Star Trek series. CBS could license certain parts of Star Trek's history to various film developers so the vast majority of benefits and risks would be from the film developers not CBS.
However, a lot of these stories doesn't require a Star Trek connection. A Gary Seven series could involve another human that is raised on an alien planet to protect Earth from destruction by its own stupidity and alien threats. The Eugenics War series could involve another group of genetically modified conquerors that war with the nations of Earth. The concepts for these shows are broad enough that they don't require Star Trek.
I wonder how effective these series would be. CBS could be under the impression that if it doesn't involve Starfleet, then it won't be a successful Star Trek series. CBS could license certain parts of Star Trek's history to various film developers so the vast majority of benefits and risks would be from the film developers not CBS.
However, a lot of these stories doesn't require a Star Trek connection. A Gary Seven series could involve another human that is raised on an alien planet to protect Earth from destruction by its own stupidity and alien threats. The Eugenics War series could involve another group of genetically modified conquerors that war with the nations of Earth. The concepts for these shows are broad enough that they don't require Star Trek.
All you really need to do is frame the scenario in terms of how it relates to the Federation.
I wonder how effective these series would be. CBS could be under the impression that if it doesn't involve Starfleet, then it won't be a successful Star Trek series. CBS could license certain parts of Star Trek's history to various film developers so the vast majority of benefits and risks would be from the film developers not CBS.
However, a lot of these stories doesn't require a Star Trek connection. A Gary Seven series could involve another human that is raised on an alien planet to protect Earth from destruction by its own stupidity and alien threats. The Eugenics War series could involve another group of genetically modified conquerors that war with the nations of Earth. The concepts for these shows are broad enough that they don't require Star Trek.
From what CBS has said about the Picard series they do consider Star Trek to be more than just Starfleet since Picard does not return to it. I am hoping that if it works out we will start to see more than just the "one ship saves the universe" rut they have been stuck in for a while.
And yes, stories are flexible, they can be transplanted between settings and even genres without too much trouble as episodes like "Balance of Terror" (which is a WWII naval script re-homed in Star Trek) show. Star Trek itself was a "tall ship" story similar to the Hornblower series transplanted into space.
Apparently Roddenberry did exactly that 'take Trek and turn it into something else' thing himself with "Genesis II" (Earth recovering from WWIII with things that were part of the original Trek concept but did not all make it into the series itself) and "The Questor Tapes" (essentially a "Gary Seven" retread) which were both failed series pilots used as TV movies.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I would have loved to see Dorn's 'Captain Worf' show be picked up
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
> @shadowfang240 said: > oh, i see they removed hack from the naughty word list...about damn time - it didn't belong there to begin with > > also - eugenics wars/WW3 show
> @sthe91 said: > lordgyor wrote: » > > A Seven of Nine spin off, but with her hack in full cat suit gear. > > > > > How about no? Instead her rocking her Starfleet uniform.
Seven isn't IN Starfleet so why would she have a Starfleet uniform? A Borg Cooperative Uniform maybe.
The Catsuit is negiotable I guess, but I prefer it, if only to tweek the noses of those neovictorian prudes who would be offended by it.
Comments
Star Trek: Surak.
Star Trek: Sarek.
https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Ael_t'Rllaillieu
> lordgyor wrote: »
>
> What would bloodwing be about?
>
>
>
>
> https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Ael_t'Rllaillieu
Interesting
Just proves that some novels should be made into TV series, but others should be thrown in the dumpster fire.
Me, I just wanted a DS9 sequel series exploring the ramifications of the Dominion War and Section 31's shenanigans.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
> Reading through a synopsis of the story I see massive interference by the Federation in the internal civil war. Something every Trek captain would refuse to condone. Among many other issues. I love Duane's work on Trek novels for the most part, but this story just doesn't hold up.
It's TOS, Azrael. The Prime Directive isn't applied to peer nation-states in that time period (Gene Coon authorial intent, explicit per DSC). Kirk broke the PD on sound moral and practical grounds more than a dozen times, grounds that are just as applicable to The Empty Chair: the story has the antagonist Romulans try to blow up Sol at the climax for Prophets' sake.
They don't start doing that Prime Directive-as-dogma thing until TNG.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
While the Memory Beta synopsis is not too bad, like any synopsis it does not get into the details and subtleties. The situation is actually nothing like the one you propose, unless Thailand was holding hostages and gearing up for war with the US and using mock trials of those hostages to justify it.
In fact, most of the action was done by Romulan expatriate mercenaries (Ael and her crew) along with other Romulan factions, the Enterprise was just supporting them as part of an agreement to rescue the Federation citizens being held by the Empire, and that only after the Romulan Imperial government had launched (or attempted to launch) several major attacks on, and committed atrocities against, the Federation in the last few years, any one of which would have been grounds for war anyway. The Federation simply chose to limit their response instead of declaring open war.
However, in TOS cross-galaxy instantaneous communications didn't exist. The situation would be more analogous to the captain of HMS Enterprize receiving word that several of His Majesty's subjects are being held by the Siamese government and subjected to show trials in an effort to justify an attack on the British Empire. He can't exactly wait until a clipper can carry a message to the Crown and back again; if action is to be taken, it must be taken now, not sometime next week.
Which is not the case in The Empty Chair, although Azrael isn't right either. Captain Kirk's mission orders in this case came directly from the President of the Federation and it's completely a national self-defense matter.
I haven't read the synopsis that Mem Beta has, but here's my version of the events in question (having read all four/five books):
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I don't think I'd like to see one based on STO, but definitely one that validates STO. Like, I'd definitely like an animated series that alternates among the three main flagship captains from the game (Shon, Jarok, and Koren.) It would acknowledge certain events from STO, such as the Iconian War, or even the destruction of the USS Belfast, without rehashing specific game content. And it would be recognised by CBS as canon.
Long live the Empire!
Her actual words were, IIRC, something to the effect of "Your world of Starfleet captains doesn't admit women." This has been interpreted, obviously, as TOS-era female officers being literally excluded from captaincy. And that's the most logical OOC explanation considering 1960s broadcast BS. But it's also been reinterpreted as Dr Lester's (crazy-*ss) evaluation of her LTR prospects with Kirk. They were in a physical and emotional relationship that ended badly because of his career progression. Successful Starfleet captains are almost exclusively bachelors, including the women, like Janeway. And that's what I prefer to believe of this supposedly Utopian future.
From Memory Alpha:
Lester's remark to Kirk, that his world of Starfleet captains did not admit women to their ranks, implies the Starfleet culture of the 2260s was more sexist than its 20th, 21st, 22nd or 24th century counterparts. An interpretation offered by the Star Trek Chronology (2nd ed., p. 78) suggests Lester's comment referred to Kirk's inability to maintain a relationship, due to his responsibilities as a starship captain. It also states that Gene Roddenberry, on the other hand, admitted in his later years that the line was simply sexist.
Also, yes, Janice was Hoopy McHoola. Hers is the definition of unreliable testimony.
I'd genuinely love to see a serial blow-by-blow of Col Sean Christopher's mission to Saturn: Part Star Trek/Part Apollo 13/Part the Martian.
2: CVN 65 might in fact get involved. The way it'd go down is the commander of the vessel reports the situation and asks for instructions. If the admiralty decides a speedy solution is warranted, they might indeed tell the commander of CVN 65 to handle it.
My character Tsin'xing
However, a lot of these stories doesn't require a Star Trek connection. A Gary Seven series could involve another human that is raised on an alien planet to protect Earth from destruction by its own stupidity and alien threats. The Eugenics War series could involve another group of genetically modified conquerors that war with the nations of Earth. The concepts for these shows are broad enough that they don't require Star Trek.
My character Tsin'xing
From what CBS has said about the Picard series they do consider Star Trek to be more than just Starfleet since Picard does not return to it. I am hoping that if it works out we will start to see more than just the "one ship saves the universe" rut they have been stuck in for a while.
And yes, stories are flexible, they can be transplanted between settings and even genres without too much trouble as episodes like "Balance of Terror" (which is a WWII naval script re-homed in Star Trek) show. Star Trek itself was a "tall ship" story similar to the Hornblower series transplanted into space.
Apparently Roddenberry did exactly that 'take Trek and turn it into something else' thing himself with "Genesis II" (Earth recovering from WWIII with things that were part of the original Trek concept but did not all make it into the series itself) and "The Questor Tapes" (essentially a "Gary Seven" retread) which were both failed series pilots used as TV movies.
also - eugenics wars/WW3 show
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
How about no? Instead her rocking her Starfleet uniform.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
> oh, i see they removed hack from the naughty word list...about damn time - it didn't belong there to begin with
>
> also - eugenics wars/WW3 show
Yeah a WW3 show could be cool.
> lordgyor wrote: »
>
> A Seven of Nine spin off, but with her hack in full cat suit gear.
>
>
>
>
> How about no? Instead her rocking her Starfleet uniform.
Seven isn't IN Starfleet so why would she have a Starfleet uniform? A Borg Cooperative Uniform maybe.
The Catsuit is negiotable I guess, but I prefer it, if only to tweek the noses of those neovictorian prudes who would be offended by it.