As far as GPL goes, that is another example of Cryptic mismanagement. If you remember when the Ferengi Admiralty Campaign was first introduced the GPL related Assignments had GPL rewards in the 10s to 100s of thousands. They were supposed to add new things in the GPL Store but never did and they decided to drastically reduce the GPL rewards by 100s of percentage instead.
GPL is like the "PVP" in this game, or the "competitive wargames TFOs." Abandonware. Would be better if Cryptic did something to make GPL worth something, rather than trying to find an "inflation problem" with EC.
GPL is practically equal to EC, with just a mindless, time-gated clickfest needed to switch it over. While GPL does indeed also need some use (mainly to cover the fact Admiralty gives it out while getting dil from the ferengi campaign), expecting players to spend millions of EC into Dabo at 300 a pop is just plain ridiculous.
For the record, it would take 33 hours of clicking (once per 36 seconds) to put a million EC into Dabo.
As far as GPL goes, that is another example of Cryptic mismanagement. If you remember when the Ferengi Admiralty Campaign was first introduced the GPL related Assignments had GPL rewards in the 10s to 100s of thousands. They were supposed to add new things in the GPL Store but never did and they decided to drastically reduce the GPL rewards by 100s of percentage instead.
GPL is like the "PVP" in this game, or the "competitive wargames TFOs." Abandonware. Would be better if Cryptic did something to make GPL worth something, rather than trying to find an "inflation problem" with EC.
GPL is practically equal to EC, with just a mindless, time-gated clickfest needed to switch it over. While GPL does indeed also need some use (mainly to cover the fact Admiralty gives it out while getting dil from the ferengi campaign), expecting players to spend millions of EC into Dabo at 300 a pop is just plain ridiculous.
Its not like it would take a lot of coding to change min bet from 10 ec to 10k and max from 100 ec to 100k. Leave admiralty missions as they are and drop a new tier of account bound GPL store goodies with nice high price tags. A price tag that would mean you could afford them after a year of Ferengi admiralty, or after dropping 10-100 million worth of EC on the wheel. There is nothing stopping Cryptic from offering fancy skins for zen store ships, Phoenix like upgrades... or even an account bound GPL purchased T6 ship.
As long as the rewards are account bound there will be no reason for anyone to bot dabo or anything. I would expect that would eat up a good bit of EC. It would have had more effect if they had done it earlier as I can't think of anything much to keep people converting long term other then a stream of new items. Consumables with value would be best... but frankly all the boosters are dirt cheap outside of XP (and they won't want to kill zen store sales) and upgrades are not nearly as valuable anymore now that many long time players have fully upgraded multiple toons. Still a "Ferengi upgrade ticket" that gave say superior tech item XP with no dill cost might still be a great sink if they got the GPL costs right.
As far as GPL goes, that is another example of Cryptic mismanagement. If you remember when the Ferengi Admiralty Campaign was first introduced the GPL related Assignments had GPL rewards in the 10s to 100s of thousands. They were supposed to add new things in the GPL Store but never did and they decided to drastically reduce the GPL rewards by 100s of percentage instead.
GPL is like the "PVP" in this game, or the "competitive wargames TFOs." Abandonware. Would be better if Cryptic did something to make GPL worth something, rather than trying to find an "inflation problem" with EC.
GPL is practically equal to EC, with just a mindless, time-gated clickfest needed to switch it over. While GPL does indeed also need some use (mainly to cover the fact Admiralty gives it out while getting dil from the ferengi campaign), expecting players to spend millions of EC into Dabo at 300 a pop is just plain ridiculous.
Its not like it would take a lot of coding to change min bet from 10 ec to 10k and max from 100 ec to 100k.
What's the point of making people click on a stupid button every 36 seconds at all?
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
As far as GPL goes, that is another example of Cryptic mismanagement. If you remember when the Ferengi Admiralty Campaign was first introduced the GPL related Assignments had GPL rewards in the 10s to 100s of thousands. They were supposed to add new things in the GPL Store but never did and they decided to drastically reduce the GPL rewards by 100s of percentage instead.
GPL is like the "PVP" in this game, or the "competitive wargames TFOs." Abandonware. Would be better if Cryptic did something to make GPL worth something, rather than trying to find an "inflation problem" with EC.
GPL is practically equal to EC, with just a mindless, time-gated clickfest needed to switch it over. While GPL does indeed also need some use (mainly to cover the fact Admiralty gives it out while getting dil from the ferengi campaign), expecting players to spend millions of EC into Dabo at 300 a pop is just plain ridiculous.
Its not like it would take a lot of coding to change min bet from 10 ec to 10k and max from 100 ec to 100k.
What's the point of making people click on a stupid button every 36 seconds at all?
Click Click Click Click Click.
Click Spin Click Spin Click Spin.
People love it.... Really they do. Its why facebook games have more users then any PC game. lol
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,674Community Moderator
Um... nix... you forget about a certain DOff that awards GPL for kills, and Ferengi Admiralty that gives out a lot of GPL. I got enough GPL to build the Great Pyramids of Giza several times over! There has been talk of revamping the GPL store, but so far its all backburner due to higher priority stuff.
They will not allow ECs to be turned into Zen like that because Zen is obtained with real money. It is a source of income that keeps the game alive. Now there technically is a way to do it but it only moves ECs around, buying Contraband off the Exchange, doing the DOff assignment for turning in Contraband, refine dilithium, trade for Zen.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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I agree with rattler, I very much doubt they ever let us convert ECs to zen when it's bought with real money for the most part.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,674Community Moderator
Obviously not. The problem is there is nothing desirable. Hell... I'd shell out my GPL for those outfits in the Dilithium Store. I wouldn't care if they were still character unlocks only.
And honestly I don't see any kind of limit on the amount of GPL you can earn. The only limiting factor is how much is earned at a time.
ECs were supposed to be the basic currency, like gold in Neverwinter and WoW.
As for "needing to stop thinking they won't allow"... you also have to consider what needs to be done to keep the lights on. STO needs income in order to stay active. Turning one of their sources of income that allows them to not only run the game, but make new content, into something you can buy for ECs is not a viable solution. It just removes one source of income for the Developers. And considering STO isn't some big budget game like WoW or even Final Fantasy 14... I'd rather not remove sources of income for our Dev team, who has actually done good work considering the size of the team.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
"THEY" are looking for solutions to a problem and absolutely NOTHING is off the table.
This is demonstrably false. Borticus has established 4 criteria for any possible solution to the "problem." It must be: Meaningful, Desirable, Repeatable, and Accessible. Anything that does not meet all 4 is most definitely off the table.
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"THEY" are looking for solutions to a problem and absolutely NOTHING is off the table.
This is demonstrably false. Borticus has established 4 criteria for any possible solution to the "problem." It must be: Meaningful, Desirable, Repeatable, and Accessible. Anything that does not meet all 4 is most definitely off the table.
Yeah, this thread lost site of that goal a long time ago.
I need to remember things like this when I criticize Cryptic for not 'listening to the community.'
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I'm not sure where your comment about it being "rather unrealistic" comes from, you'll have to explain that further as it doesn't make sense to me in the context of the subject matter.
IRL stuff like buying a house or car always comes with assorted fees and paperwork that must be completed before you can resell it. You need to register the title which is a small fee. Cars typically have transportation costs. Also, while it doesn't always happen, people who flip houses and cars often make an effort to improve them to increase the resale value.
Even stock market trading has listing fees. (to pay the people who actually man the stock market)
STO's exchange however is 100% free.
That's great, my character doesn't live on Earth, let alone pre-Federation Earth. All my played characters presently are KDF or Romulan/KDF. The Klingon Empire doesn't have all these stupid fees, not even on the Federation Citizens I sell to KDF forced labor brigades and Orion slave traders.
You mean in STO or in the TV show? In the TV show Orions don't do anything for free. They're the greediest people this side of Ferenginar. Klingons aren't altruistic either. But... If you're dealing directly with an Orion slave trader there is no middle man to take a cut. However, if you called a Nausicaan merc to setup the deal, the Nausicaan merc would probably want a cut.
I think he did mention that suggestions should try to satisfy at least three of the four requirements.
His original Tweet stated, "What ideas do you have that might meet all 3 of those?" That was a typo as he had listed 4, but the implication is that he wants ideas that meet all requirements.
"THEY" are looking for solutions to a problem and absolutely NOTHING is off the table.
This is demonstrably false. Borticus has established 4 criteria for any possible solution to the "problem." It must be: Meaningful, Desirable, Repeatable, and Accessible. Anything that does not meet all 4 is most definitely off the table.
Incorrect. This was a brainstorming session; nothing is off the table and determining whether or not it "might" fit the criteria listed is something JR would need to evaluate himself. We can't substitute our opinion for his.
I'm not going to debate semantics with you.
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Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Obviously not. The problem is there is nothing desirable. Hell... I'd shell out my GPL for those outfits in the Dilithium Store. I wouldn't care if they were still character unlocks only.
And honestly I don't see any kind of limit on the amount of GPL you can earn. The only limiting factor is how much is earned at a time.
ECs were supposed to be the basic currency, like gold in Neverwinter and WoW.
As for "needing to stop thinking they won't allow"... you also have to consider what needs to be done to keep the lights on. STO needs income in order to stay active. Turning one of their sources of income that allows them to not only run the game, but make new content, into something you can buy for ECs is not a viable solution. It just removes one source of income for the Developers. And considering STO isn't some big budget game like WoW or even Final Fantasy 14... I'd rather not remove sources of income for our Dev team, who has actually done good work considering the size of the team.
Right? Why do that, when they've done that themselves in the past by killing off the monthly subscription plans? Or when they stuffed Fleet Ship Modules into T6 reputation rewards, as an example?
Cryptic's the team that's willingly shut themselves off from viable income generation options.
Borticus' plea gets no sympathy from me. EC has plenty of things it can be dropped into. He would be better off looking to GPL.
Right? Why do that, when they've done that themselves in the past by killing off the monthly subscription plans? Or when they stuffed Fleet Ship Modules into T6 reputation rewards, as an example?
You only get 1 FSM per rep at T6. So unless you have a certain ship you want to fleet, you gotta grind out 4 or 5 reps to T6. Would be faster to just buy the FSMs outright unless you're already at T6 across the board. I can't speculate on the monthly sub as I am not Cryptic, however it is possible that across all three of their games they felt comfortable enough to just go Lifer or F2P. And with them coming out with a 4th game...
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
funnily enough...satisfying ALL of those requirements the way the game is set up is impossible
Yet they did it when they introduced Phoenix Boxes to cull Dilithium Inflation.
It's a difficult objective, but far from impossible.
EC is a base currency, dil is a premium time gated currency. They are different beasts. You will not get all 4 with a base currency. At best you get 3 of the 4. If they do something like the pheonix box for example, you can get repeatable, desirable, but meaningful or accessable has to picked. If they make it accessable, then it won't be meaningful. If it is meaningful, it won't be accessable. That is because there is a VERY big gap in people with EC. There are people who have problems getting even a couple million EC while some of us can make billions easily enough. So for somebody like me, having a box that costs 10 million EC each won't even remotely dent what I can do while others will find that completely inaccessable. A tax or posting fee on the exchange will get repeatable, accessable and meaningful...but the forum would burn. Especially the posting fee. This would also target the biggest problem of EC inflation...which is the big movers of EC...like myself when I cared. Really, there is noway to get all 4. At best they can do is to have an EC version of the pheonix box at something low like 500k and kinda stem the flow of EC in the game.
I see what you're saying and I agree.
To me though, I continue to be of the same mindset now that I was at the start of this thread.. just leave it alone. Dillithium and Zen are the real currencies for STO and either one of them can generate EC whenever it's needed. I understand why some support the exchange tax, but I still think it will do nothing but have the same effect that the old exchange cap had, it will push people into the trade channels to avoid the tax.
Overall, the best and most logical course of action is to just leave things alone. The inflation is a myth, the only real 'problem' is that some people don't know how to generate EC. It seems silly to try and put a system in place to try and fix that when most users can fix it themselves with 10 minutes of research.
funnily enough...satisfying ALL of those requirements the way the game is set up is impossible
Yet they did it when they introduced Phoenix Boxes to cull Dilithium Inflation.
It's a difficult objective, but far from impossible.
It didn't really cull dilithium inflation atleast not from those rich with dil. It only made dil drain from the poor, those rich with dil don't open that many boxes because most rich with dil are also space rich and have no need for items from the box.
funnily enough...satisfying ALL of those requirements the way the game is set up is impossible
Yet they did it when they introduced Phoenix Boxes to cull Dilithium Inflation.
It's a difficult objective, but far from impossible.
It didn't really cull dilithium inflation atleast not from those rich with dil. It only made dil drain from the poor, those rich with dil don't open that many boxes because most rich with dil are also space rich and have no need for items from the box.
The massive reduction in the Dilithium Exchange rate suggests otherwise. The effects of the Phoenix box on the exchange rate is absolutely indisputable.
funnily enough...satisfying ALL of those requirements the way the game is set up is impossible
Yet they did it when they introduced Phoenix Boxes to cull Dilithium Inflation.
It's a difficult objective, but far from impossible.
EC is a base currency, dil is a premium time gated currency. They are different beasts. You will not get all 4 with a base currency. At best you get 3 of the 4. If they do something like the pheonix box for example, you can get repeatable, desirable, but meaningful or accessable has to picked. If they make it accessable, then it won't be meaningful. If it is meaningful, it won't be accessable. That is because there is a VERY big gap in people with EC. There are people who have problems getting even a couple million EC while some of us can make billions easily enough. So for somebody like me, having a box that costs 10 million EC each won't even remotely dent what I can do while others will find that completely inaccessable. A tax or posting fee on the exchange will get repeatable, accessable and meaningful...but the forum would burn. Especially the posting fee. This would also target the biggest problem of EC inflation...which is the big movers of EC...like myself when I cared. Really, there is noway to get all 4. At best they can do is to have an EC version of the pheonix box at something low like 500k and kinda stem the flow of EC in the game.
I see what you're saying and I agree.
To me though, I continue to be of the same mindset now that I was at the start of this thread.. just leave it alone. Dillithium and Zen are the real currencies for STO and either one of them can generate EC whenever it's needed. I understand why some support the exchange tax, but I still think it will do nothing but have the same effect that the old exchange cap had, it will push people into the trade channels to avoid the tax.
Overall, the best and most logical course of action is to just leave things alone. The inflation is a myth, the only real 'problem' is that some people don't know how to generate EC. It seems silly to try and put a system in place to try and fix that when most users can fix it themselves with 10 minutes of research.
That's pretty much how I feel. There doesn't appear to be any Inflation what so ever so its not possible to find a solution to the inflation problem when there is no inflation.
We have had inflation in the distant past so keep monitoring it. But right now leave everything alone as any changes could just make the situation worse. Adding in more EC sinks to fix deflation when there is no deflation just runs the risk of just making it even harder for the people struggling with EC to buy items off the market.
Comments
For the record, it would take 33 hours of clicking (once per 36 seconds) to put a million EC into Dabo.
Its not like it would take a lot of coding to change min bet from 10 ec to 10k and max from 100 ec to 100k. Leave admiralty missions as they are and drop a new tier of account bound GPL store goodies with nice high price tags. A price tag that would mean you could afford them after a year of Ferengi admiralty, or after dropping 10-100 million worth of EC on the wheel. There is nothing stopping Cryptic from offering fancy skins for zen store ships, Phoenix like upgrades... or even an account bound GPL purchased T6 ship.
As long as the rewards are account bound there will be no reason for anyone to bot dabo or anything. I would expect that would eat up a good bit of EC. It would have had more effect if they had done it earlier as I can't think of anything much to keep people converting long term other then a stream of new items. Consumables with value would be best... but frankly all the boosters are dirt cheap outside of XP (and they won't want to kill zen store sales) and upgrades are not nearly as valuable anymore now that many long time players have fully upgraded multiple toons. Still a "Ferengi upgrade ticket" that gave say superior tech item XP with no dill cost might still be a great sink if they got the GPL costs right.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Click Click Click Click Click.
Click Spin Click Spin Click Spin.
People love it.... Really they do. Its why facebook games have more users then any PC game. lol
They will not allow ECs to be turned into Zen like that because Zen is obtained with real money. It is a source of income that keeps the game alive. Now there technically is a way to do it but it only moves ECs around, buying Contraband off the Exchange, doing the DOff assignment for turning in Contraband, refine dilithium, trade for Zen.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
And honestly I don't see any kind of limit on the amount of GPL you can earn. The only limiting factor is how much is earned at a time.
ECs were supposed to be the basic currency, like gold in Neverwinter and WoW.
As for "needing to stop thinking they won't allow"... you also have to consider what needs to be done to keep the lights on. STO needs income in order to stay active. Turning one of their sources of income that allows them to not only run the game, but make new content, into something you can buy for ECs is not a viable solution. It just removes one source of income for the Developers. And considering STO isn't some big budget game like WoW or even Final Fantasy 14... I'd rather not remove sources of income for our Dev team, who has actually done good work considering the size of the team.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
This is demonstrably false. Borticus has established 4 criteria for any possible solution to the "problem." It must be: Meaningful, Desirable, Repeatable, and Accessible. Anything that does not meet all 4 is most definitely off the table.
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Yeah, this thread lost site of that goal a long time ago.
I need to remember things like this when I criticize Cryptic for not 'listening to the community.'
if he expects to actually do anything, he's going to have to settle for 3 out of 4
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
My character Tsin'xing
His original Tweet stated, "What ideas do you have that might meet all 3 of those?" That was a typo as he had listed 4, but the implication is that he wants ideas that meet all requirements.
I'm not going to debate semantics with you.
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Right? Why do that, when they've done that themselves in the past by killing off the monthly subscription plans? Or when they stuffed Fleet Ship Modules into T6 reputation rewards, as an example?
Cryptic's the team that's willingly shut themselves off from viable income generation options.
Borticus' plea gets no sympathy from me. EC has plenty of things it can be dropped into. He would be better off looking to GPL.
Yet they did it when they introduced Phoenix Boxes to cull Dilithium Inflation.
It's a difficult objective, but far from impossible.
You only get 1 FSM per rep at T6. So unless you have a certain ship you want to fleet, you gotta grind out 4 or 5 reps to T6. Would be faster to just buy the FSMs outright unless you're already at T6 across the board. I can't speculate on the monthly sub as I am not Cryptic, however it is possible that across all three of their games they felt comfortable enough to just go Lifer or F2P. And with them coming out with a 4th game...
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
I see what you're saying and I agree.
To me though, I continue to be of the same mindset now that I was at the start of this thread.. just leave it alone. Dillithium and Zen are the real currencies for STO and either one of them can generate EC whenever it's needed. I understand why some support the exchange tax, but I still think it will do nothing but have the same effect that the old exchange cap had, it will push people into the trade channels to avoid the tax.
Overall, the best and most logical course of action is to just leave things alone. The inflation is a myth, the only real 'problem' is that some people don't know how to generate EC. It seems silly to try and put a system in place to try and fix that when most users can fix it themselves with 10 minutes of research.
It didn't really cull dilithium inflation atleast not from those rich with dil. It only made dil drain from the poor, those rich with dil don't open that many boxes because most rich with dil are also space rich and have no need for items from the box.
The massive reduction in the Dilithium Exchange rate suggests otherwise. The effects of the Phoenix box on the exchange rate is absolutely indisputable.
We have had inflation in the distant past so keep monitoring it. But right now leave everything alone as any changes could just make the situation worse. Adding in more EC sinks to fix deflation when there is no deflation just runs the risk of just making it even harder for the people struggling with EC to buy items off the market.