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The Discovery Operations Pack!

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  • villainvilevillainvile Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    That Combat Tardigrade should be a once-per-character unlock as well, not a once-per-account.

    Account-wide unlock!!!
    No thank you. This has the worst value I've seen and I will not be buying it.

    Dunno.
  • nommo#5819 nommo Member Posts: 904 Arc User
    I did view yesterday a Priority One live stream on Twitch that Al 'Gecko' made an appearance that when P1 asked about this Disc pack whirlwind that Al did state, "more to come," as he definitely seemed confined in what he could say & pleaded ignorance to the marketing towards it. To me that offered a glimmer of hope, maybe not enough for me to purchase it as it is, but still maybe something more & better.

    Again, Cryptic should emphasize a Ten Forward Weekly to help discuss this pack for all the possible pros & cons & answer players' questions about it before the selling of it.

    I see that community moderator, BMR, stating that the raiders do get flanking on another thread but just saying it & not linking a confirmation so at least it seems the raiders do get a grade of flanking as they should receive.
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 7,710 Arc User
    where2r1 wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    where2r1 wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »

    Since the free ships are perfectly good enough to use while leveling up, there is 2 reasons to buy low tier ships. You either get it for the visual unlocks or the console it comes with...something scaling ships don't add. So yeah no, it's not really adding value.

    You are getting every tier of low level, Zen ship for the cost of one T-6. You no longer have to deal with playing with "good enough" as you level up.

    Those lower tier zen ships are also just good enough. The amount of extra omph you get from free to zen ship isn't worth any real world money. Now the cosmetic unlocks and a couple of the consoles (valdore console I'm looking at you) are worth the real world money...or grinding out the zen. But really, tossing in a small boost for a new toon at the low levels without getting more useful consoles or skin option is pretty much meh value honestly.

    Well, maybe "Meh!" for you. But for me, it will probably be a noticeable difference.

    If they ever fix this mission journal and quit all these XP weekends (and I quit getting distracted by events)....I can take my Level 12 Delta Recruit through the hoops with the low level Zen ships I unlocked over the years for my Prime character's Admiralty.

    Anyhoo, I think the thought here is more like: recoop the moola/ship is worthy of the T-6 price.....for not being able to sell/not having to buy T-1 through T-5 level ship.

    So, I don't think players will see what they really want to see: to be able to play their favorite ships from lower levels at T-6. Until this boondoggle with Scaling Ships blows over.

    I'm not saying that being able to use the same ship for your entire career has no merit. I am saying that it doesn't really have a mechanical value. If you like it and that floats your boat...by all means. I mean for you, if that is something you really want...it has whatever value you wanna add to it. Mechanically...is what I speak of. Mechanically...no new console at each tier or new costume unlocks means it doesn't add value over using the freebie ship for the like 5 hours before you get your next freebie ship. I am not against scaling ships. I actually quite like it in point of fact. I won't pay extra for it tho. And if you look at scaling ships released so far, the price for the ship having a scaling option hasn't made them cost anymore. But who know, cryptic has been on a roll for pissing off their playerbase.
  • kellmg96#5851 kellmg96 Member Posts: 514 Arc User
    it comes out tomorrow
    8400 with discount
    7350 with discount and starter pack discount
    sE8rUC0.jpg
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  • nommo#5819 nommo Member Posts: 904 Arc User
    So the raiders have the regular flanking but not the improved flanking.

    All the skins that were presented during the Ten Forward Weekly live stream looked really good. It just sucks to be you if you don't own the Lobi Walker T6 ship so the special skin cannot be used at top levels.

    Cryptic plans to make the combat pet account wide so buy now & cross your fingers?

    The fleet versions of the ships scale as well? I was surprised by that & am impressed if true.

    The ships' consoles are Universal but there are no ship consoles' set bonuses.

    During the stream the ships didn't have Disc cloak but they will.

    & there's probably a Zen buy bonus tomorrow as well to coincide with buying the pack on sale.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 8,212 Arc User
    edited February 14
    .

    Cryptic plans to make the combat pet account wide so buy now & cross your fingers?

    Was this on the live stream, I watched most of it but never heard this statement and the pack still states it's once per account?
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11084823-the-discovery-operations-pack!


    Yeah, Kael said on the live stream that they will eventually make the combat pet an account unlock.

    Still, I wouldn't go buying anything until it's actually done. A verbal intent on a live stream isn't enough when you're talking the type of outrageous price this pack costs. Buy at your own risk, but if you want the combat pet for your account you should wait until it's actually implemented. If that takes until the sale is over, then fine.. skip it.

    Just remember the Starter Pack Bait and Switch scam.. you're not working with a company that's afraid to skirt the line when it comes to their customers. Keep that in mind before you type in a credit card number.
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  • rsciwrsciw Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    .

    Cryptic plans to make the combat pet account wide so buy now & cross your fingers?

    Was this on the live stream, I watched most of it but never heard this statement and the pack still states it's once per account?
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11084823-the-discovery-operations-pack!


    Yeah, Kael said on the live stream that they will eventually make the combat pet an account unlock.

    Still, I wouldn't go buying anything until it's actually done. A verbal intent on a live stream isn't enough when you're talking the type of outrageous price this pack costs. Buy at your own risk, but if you want the combat pet for your account you should wait until it's actually implemented. If that takes until the sale is over, then fine.. skip it.

    Just remember the Starter Pack Bait and Switch scam.. you're not working with a company that's afraid to skirt the line when it comes to their customers. Keep that in mind before you type in a credit card number.

    Oh absolutely agree, I wouldn't buy it until this is not only confirmed in writing but until others who have bought it have also confirmed it, trust is not a word I would link strongly with this company, now that may be due to miscommunication, inept marketing, or downright intentionally trying to get as much as possible for as little as possible then sweeten it until they (us) start paying.

    The weird thing is, when you think about it, all their time and investment is already done, if nobody buys anything they don't have a physical product to sell, no asset as such, and as it's just digital files the game automatically makes as many as it needs for zero cost, so lowering a price is nothing to do with what they are selling, it is all to do with a perception of value.

    New items (and copy of items, e.g. any sold to players) of any kind add additional bandwidth, storage, database use, and that isn't really zero cost.
  • rsciwrsciw Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    rsciw wrote: »
    .

    Cryptic plans to make the combat pet account wide so buy now & cross your fingers?

    Was this on the live stream, I watched most of it but never heard this statement and the pack still states it's once per account?
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11084823-the-discovery-operations-pack!


    Yeah, Kael said on the live stream that they will eventually make the combat pet an account unlock.

    Still, I wouldn't go buying anything until it's actually done. A verbal intent on a live stream isn't enough when you're talking the type of outrageous price this pack costs. Buy at your own risk, but if you want the combat pet for your account you should wait until it's actually implemented. If that takes until the sale is over, then fine.. skip it.

    Just remember the Starter Pack Bait and Switch scam.. you're not working with a company that's afraid to skirt the line when it comes to their customers. Keep that in mind before you type in a credit card number.

    Oh absolutely agree, I wouldn't buy it until this is not only confirmed in writing but until others who have bought it have also confirmed it, trust is not a word I would link strongly with this company, now that may be due to miscommunication, inept marketing, or downright intentionally trying to get as much as possible for as little as possible then sweeten it until they (us) start paying.

    The weird thing is, when you think about it, all their time and investment is already done, if nobody buys anything they don't have a physical product to sell, no asset as such, and as it's just digital files the game automatically makes as many as it needs for zero cost, so lowering a price is nothing to do with what they are selling, it is all to do with a perception of value.

    New items (and copy of items, e.g. any sold to players) of any kind add additional bandwidth, storage, database use, and that isn't really zero cost.

    Seriously? Do you know how much space the flicking of a digital switch takes in a program? Zero space. Do you know the bandwidth required to send the coordinate data points for a client side generated object? It's a few bytes. The cost is either nothing or as close to nothing as makes no odds.

    The predominant cost is the design and development of the artwork and any systems that are employed in making the onscreen item perform as required, this is a great deal of cost, and the way they get it back is by selling the packs. The point I made, which you failed to grasp, is that making the tardigrade, for example, account bound rather than character bound is only a cost if the studio could reasonably expect players to buy the tardigrade for all of their Player Characters, in which case they would lose money. On the other hand, how many players would not buy it at all if it is not account bound, and from the feedback in this thread that seems to be most.

    Yes, seriously. I am not talking about the client side program sending a few coordinate bytes. Items you hold in one way or another are kept on their DBs in a DC, not your local client side. DB queries of course incur bandwidth, storage for it, backup systems, with the bandwidth on top from DB to slaves to separate backups, hopefully a DR, etc.
    All items may be small, and I doubt they will have large costs every time something small gets added (nowhere did I say the price of the pack is fair or not, that is not my point, I am not defending the pack price), yet each and every item adds to it, equally each copy adds an entry in one form or another. (IIRC that is also why the drydock was introduced, to cut down on DB costs of having too many fully equipped & customized ships in your shipyard, yet still have those available without having to dismiss those).

    The predominant cost is indeed the design and development (and I'm not arguing against that either), however after that falls the ongoing cost, and that is not zero, it may be small, maybe not, but it's not zero.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 10,046 Arc User
    edited February 14
    Yep, they could use that extra space in the database for new Party Favors and other important stuff like that instead. ;)
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  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,415 Arc User
    Could argue that there is time and money involved in the design process.

    But then you see the tactical buckethead and know that a 5 year old with a roll of foil could make a better fitting helmet, assuming it wasn't made solely for a mr merrick.
  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 5,933 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    I'm not saying that being able to use the same ship for your entire career has no merit. I am saying that it doesn't really have a mechanical value. If you like it and that floats your boat...by all means. I mean for you, if that is something you really want...it has whatever value you wanna add to it. Mechanically...is what I speak of. Mechanically...no new console at each tier or new costume unlocks means it doesn't add value over using the freebie ship for the like 5 hours before you get your next freebie ship. I am not against scaling ships. I actually quite like it in point of fact. I won't pay extra for it tho. And if you look at scaling ships released so far, the price for the ship having a scaling option hasn't made them cost anymore. But who know, cryptic has been on a roll for pissing off their playerbase.

    It is not as if I don't have questions about pricing this pack.

    It is less work to do just one scaling ship, isn't it??? Cryptic will not have to expend as much on art (if the art is not very different on each tier of a scaling ship). Or hooking up and balancing each console for the new Zen ships at each tier. Or making and hooking up those Admiralty cards at each tier.

    But they are selling these ships to a different audience. Discovery fans. As well as ones who were not considering buying Zen ships while leveling up....who will think they are a value because they won't have to buy one for each tier and they get use of a T-6 ship at the end.

    It remains to be seen if that will sell. And it most likely will because....are there other Zen ships for Discovery fans coming out? Hmmmm.....

    If players bother to continue playing past "I got done with the Episodes"...they will realize "more scaling ships and less lower tier ships" have other implications in the game.
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  • sukhothaisukhothai Member Posts: 207 Arc User
    I'm not buying this! Not until the Tardigrade is Account Wide.
  • nommo#5819 nommo Member Posts: 904 Arc User
    Well during the live stream I think they did a fair job at answering questions that I saw being asked multiple times, but not good nor did they seem to focus on this pack's concerns much. It seemed more of the same of their pick & choose but with more coverage this time so at least that is better.

    I'm still not buying this pack. I don't like how Cryptic tried marketing this at all & it feels dirty & leaves a bad taste. It is like Cryptic's marketing are cross-overs from EA & Bethesda. Remember, if us players/customers hadn't voiced as we did there would've been no account wide & no starter pack discount changes at all & don't believe otherwise.

    I still think this pack will sell well. Enough people will feel vindicated now with the changes that should've been part of the pack initially anyways to buy it. If the combat pet change to account wide isn't implemented before this initial sale pricing ceases then I think it indicates Cryptic really doesn't care about their player base but the open wallets.

    There's good quality items in this pack for sure but far less content than previous packs. & if there is a buy zen bonus to coincide with this Disc pack sale as I suspect probably even more will buy it. Nothing more was added, all Cryptic had to do was with-hold what had been precedent in other packs & act like they listened & offer what should've already been. It was a good ploy & it will work on most.
  • anubis0sarvouranubis0sarvour Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    Has Kael or anyone else responded on this thread? And IF so which page(s)?
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  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 6,628 Community Moderator
    About what exactly?
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  • anubis0sarvouranubis0sarvour Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    About what exactly?

    Community's general displeasure/negative reactions to the pack? Changes being made?
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  • alcyoneserenealcyoneserene Member Posts: 1,885 Arc User
    edited February 14
    Flanking, and the type of raider flanking, should be listed in the stats for the M'Chla as it does for other ships. Also why does the M'Chla have 13 Boff seats while the T6 B'rel and D4x have only 12?

    In the KDF shipyard it also lists one of the LtC Uni seats as Uni/Command which is quite a typo and perhaps should be given Uni/Command now that it is live on sale.
    screenshot-2019-02-14-12-36-59.jpg
    Post edited by alcyoneserene on
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  • nommo#5819 nommo Member Posts: 904 Arc User
    Flanking, and the type of raider flanking, should be listed in the stats for the M'Chla as it does for other ships. Also why does the M'Chla have 13 Boff seats while the T6 B'rel and D4x have only 12?

    Based upon what was stated during the most recent Ten Forward Weekly live stream the raiders, both, have the regular raider flanking, sadly not the improved flanking that a couple of other older raiders have. I hadn't looked closely enough at the BOFF seating, but BoP/raiders sometimes are universals. Overall, I usually think the newest shiny has the best stuff if just merely for a selling more stand point so maybe that is why more BOFF seating but with this pack from the get go who knows.
  • storulesstorules Member Posts: 2,762 Arc User
    it comes out tomorrow
    8400 with discount
    7350 with discount and starter pack discount


    Anyone care to confirm?
    Pack costs 8400 ZEN ? and 7350 ZEN if you already have an starter pack?​​
    tumblr_ncbngkt24X1ry46hlo1_400.gif
  • lnbladelnblade Member Posts: 261 Arc User
    Flanking, and the type of raider flanking, should be listed in the stats for the M'Chla as it does for other ships. Also why does the M'Chla have 13 Boff seats while the T6 B'rel and D4x have only 12?
    Becausethe M'Chala (and Shran) both have dedicated Commander Tactical seats, whereas the B'rel/Kor and D4x have all universal seats. Fewer BOff stations is how they balance out the ability to do pretty much anything you want with all those universal statons.
  • disqord#9557 disqord Member Posts: 531 Arc User
    I hope that despite all the "concessions" they've made, people will still see this pack as absolutely not worth the price. This includes the idea that it being on sale makes it more valuable, as if a sale is the actual asking price and not a tactic to show a good side.

    Pack still isn't worth it in my opinion, and won't be until they either add more ships or drop the price. Character vs account unlocks isn't magically changing how I feel about this, and I hope that sales are still low just so this doesn't happen again.
  • alcyoneserenealcyoneserene Member Posts: 1,885 Arc User
    lnblade wrote: »
    Flanking, and the type of raider flanking, should be listed in the stats for the M'Chla as it does for other ships. Also why does the M'Chla have 13 Boff seats while the T6 B'rel and D4x have only 12?
    Becausethe M'Chala (and Shran) both have dedicated Commander Tactical seats, whereas the B'rel/Kor and D4x have all universal seats. Fewer BOff stations is how they balance out the ability to do pretty much anything you want with all those universal statons.

    That explains it, thanks.
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  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 6,628 Community Moderator
    @anubis0sarvour The changes made were that the BOFFs were made account-wide unlocks. The combat Tardigrade will be made account-wide unlock later. The discount for having already bought the previous Starter Pack was announced as well.

    @storules Yes, those prices were confirmed during the livestream.
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  • nommo#5819 nommo Member Posts: 904 Arc User
    storules wrote: »
    it comes out tomorrow
    8400 with discount
    7350 with discount and starter pack discount


    Anyone care to confirm?
    Pack costs 8400 ZEN ? and 7350 ZEN if you already have an starter pack?​​

    I'm sure you are already aware now & in-game but the 7350 is the current sale price if you own the Disc starter pack.




    I hope that despite all the "concessions" they've made, people will still see this pack as absolutely not worth the price. This includes the idea that it being on sale makes it more valuable, as if a sale is the actual asking price and not a tactic to show a good side.

    Pack still isn't worth it in my opinion, and won't be until they either add more ships or drop the price. Character vs account unlocks isn't magically changing how I feel about this, and I hope that sales are still low just so this doesn't happen again.

    I think you're being nice describing that as "concessions". I think this was a planned marketing ploy all along. However, doing so I'm sure there will be enough to buy it now so we as players, customers, should expect similar tactics down the road for STO more of this towards the player base & more gambling in more aspects of STO.

  • pwecangetlostpwecangetlost Member Posts: 511 Arc User
    Unfortunately we're still left with a quandary. Until the tardigrade account wide is actually implemented why take the gamble on them sticking to their word? If this isn't done while the sale is on and the pack is actually at a reasonable price for its value, why get it at all?
This discussion has been closed.