Head Canon/Retcon

marty123

How do we know that some of the extras (Starfleet officers) seen in the background of TOS isn’t a Betazoid or another species that looks identical or almost identical to Humans?

I like to think that there were at least a couple, if not on the Enterprise than on K-7 or another Federation starship we see.

brian334

In the TOS era crews appear to have been largely of a single species, with the occasional 'alien' officer aboard. This is implied in The Immunity Syndrome when Spock receives an impression of the death of the USS Intrepid, a ship crewed entirely by Vulcans.

Although we never saw a Tellarite or Andorian crewed Starfleet vessel, one presumes they were out there. One also presumes Starfleet Service Academies and Technical Schools on at least the four Founders of the Federation homeworlds. This is entirely speculative, of course, because there is no on-screen evidence of it.

Races with large populations willing to serve in Starfleet would naturally be given starships to crew, and their inclusion of aliens might be a way to be inclusive of their minor allies, or might be a matter of cross-training.

In my fanfic of the Four Years War I have a Tellarite Survey Cruiser stuck behind Klingon lines with a human crewman, who was on a six-month cultural exchange assignment. With one nacelle shot off, they are restricted to sneaking around behind the lines, and are used as a spy ship by Starfleet Command as they follow the advancing Klingon front into Federation Space.

artan42

TOS and early TNG are chock full of aliens that are humans with silly costumes. They didn't really start with silly forehead and nose ridging until later TNG. There's every change some of the crew aren't human or half-human. Though, even Discovery, as the most diverse crew we've yet seen on TV, is still majority human or human looking species.​​

rattler2

Well... we have a lot of variables to consider, such as when Betazed joined the Federation. As far as we know... Trill weren't that common even in Starfleet until the late 2360s/early 2370s. Dr. Crusher wasn't even aware of the fact that Trill are symbiotic when that ambassador was aboard Enterprise until he revealed that detail.

So... it is hard to determine if and when Betazoids started joining Starfleet. We can infer that Deanna, while only being half-Betazoid, wasn't the first Betazoid to join up. But... we don't know for sure long Betazoids have been serving.

artan42

rattler2 wrote: »

Dr. Crusher wasn't even aware of the fact that Trill are symbiotic when that ambassador was aboard Enterprise until he revealed that detail.

I think we can ignore anything revealed about Trill in that episode considering they are incompatible with the Trill of DS9. Especially as Dax knew McCoy personally.​​

rattler2

They retconed the forehead ridges and switched to the spots (which really was a good change. Trill look much better with spots). They didn't retcon symbiotic memories.

Honestly... unless Discovery establishes that that information was known as far back as the 23rd Century... we can only use what was already established in TNG, which says that Trill Symbiotes weren't common knowledge for a long time. Only after that event aboard Enterprise did it start to become common knowledge.

artan42

rattler2 wrote: »

They retconed the forehead ridges and switched to the spots (which really was a good change. Trill look much better with spots). They didn't retcon symbiotic memories.

The Trill in TNG are parasitic and overwhelm the host. That's not how they work in DS9.

rattler2 wrote: »

Honestly... unless Discovery establishes that that information was known as far back as the 23rd Century... we can only use what was already established in TNG, which says that Trill Symbiotes weren't common knowledge for a long time. Only after that event aboard Enterprise did it start to become common knowledge.

DSC doesn't need to. DS9 already did. Dax knew McCoy. That's a medical officer from TOS knowing of Trills in the TOS era. Besides, maybe Crusher's just to lazy to use the database in the same way McCoy didn't know anything about Spock's biology despite Vulcans being in Starfleet since the ENT era.​​

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mirrorchaos

brian334 wrote: »

In the TOS era crews appear to have been largely of a single species, with the occasional 'alien' officer aboard. This is implied in The Immunity Syndrome when Spock receives an impression of the death of the USS Intrepid, a ship crewed entirely by Vulcans.

Although we never saw a Tellarite or Andorian crewed Starfleet vessel, one presumes they were out there. One also presumes Starfleet Service Academies and Technical Schools on at least the four Founders of the Federation homeworlds. This is entirely speculative, of course, because there is no on-screen evidence of it.

Races with large populations willing to serve in Starfleet would naturally be given starships to crew, and their inclusion of aliens might be a way to be inclusive of their minor allies, or might be a matter of cross-training.

In my fanfic of the Four Years War I have a Tellarite Survey Cruiser stuck behind Klingon lines with a human crewman, who was on a six-month cultural exchange assignment. With one nacelle shot off, they are restricted to sneaking around behind the lines, and are used as a spy ship by Starfleet Command as they follow the advancing Klingon front into Federation Space.

Discovery is within the TOS era, and you got Saru, Voq/Ash Tyler and Airiam for examples. There are aliens serving during the era, but when you look over the entire run from Enterprise to Voyager, the vast majority of the crew are Humans with some aliens every once in a while. most numerous of the aliens are Vulcans: T'Pol, Tuvok, Sonak (transport accident KIA), Spock, Soval, Sarek and so on.

artan42 wrote: »

TOS and early TNG are chock full of aliens that are humans with silly costumes. They didn't really start with silly forehead and nose ridging until later TNG. There's every change some of the crew aren't human or half-human. Though, even Discovery, as the most diverse crew we've yet seen on TV, is still majority human or human looking species.​​

Quick process of elimination with knowledge on hand:
Proper head ridges started coming in around ST:SFS, so 1984 a few years before TNG was conceived and it took the people making those ridges 6-7 years before they got them right (around season 2-season 3 of TNG). the first attempt of course was ST:TMP in 1979 but those were fairly primative attempts.

brian334

McCoy visited Enterprise D, and got Data to pilot his shuttle back to Earth, so there is every likelihood that Dax knew an older McCoy, rather than met him in the TOS era.

Beta Zed have been in Starfleet at least since Picard was at the Academy, during the tenure of a Beta Zed Superintendant.

From Memory Alpha:

Picard's superintendent
A male Betazoid who was a full telepath held the office of superintendent during Picard's time at the Academy. According to Picard, he didn't have to ask cadets what they'd done when meeting them at his office. Riker took Picard's 2368 recollection of this to mean that he himself had been called into the superintendent's office, a story he wished to hear more of. (TNG: "The First Duty")

rattler2

artan42 wrote: »

DSC doesn't need to. DS9 already did. Dax knew McCoy. That's a medical officer from TOS knowing of Trills in the TOS era. Besides, maybe Crusher's just to lazy to use the database in the same way McCoy didn't know anything about Spock's biology despite Vulcans being in Starfleet since the ENT era.​​

Dax knowing McCoy doesn't mean McCoy knew Dax to that degree. Trill could have just played off the Symbiote name being a family name like how humans have a given and family name. So from a human perspective... Someone who is Joined with the Dax Symbiote might just be confused for someone who just has the last name Dax.

Hell... it wasn't common knowledge that the large majority of the Trill population was actually compatible with Symbiotes for Joining, a secret held REAL tight by the Symbiosis Comittee until some idiot stole the Dax Symbiote from Jadzia, which almost killed her. So how hard is it to believe that the actual existance of the Symbiotes had been a secret until revealed aboard Enterprise? We've seen cases of species keeping big secrets. The Federation is not all knowing.

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jonsills

Yeah, when Dax knew McCoy, it apparently wasn't in a doctor-patient relationship - not the way Jadzia was dreamily reminiscing about his "surgeon's hands"...

starkaos

Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... time travel.

As far as Discovery and Trills go, Section 31 is not very open about the information it has collected over the years. After all, Section 31 has far more advanced technology than the Federation since it doesn't have to worry about the Prime Directive and playing nice with races with advanced technology. We know that Klingons likely new about Trills and Section 31 and Empress Georgiou knew about Trills, but there is currently no evidence that 23rd Century Starfleet knew about Trills.

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starkaos

azrael605 wrote: »

> starkaos said:
> Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... time travel.
>
> As far as Discovery and Trills go, Section 31 is not very open about the information it has collected over the years. After all, Section 31 has far more advanced technology than the Federation since it doesn't have to worry about the Prime Directive and playing nice with races with advanced technology. We know that Klingons likely new about Trills and Section 31 and Empress Georgiou knew about Trills, but there is currently no evidence that 23rd Century Starfleet knew about Trills.

There were multiple Trill seen, it wasn't just a disguise used by Leland.

Never said that there weren't multiple Trill in Discovery. Just that any Trill we have seen is on Qo'noS. Klingons are not going to mention to the Federation what alien races they know about. Unless a Starfleet Officer had a conversation with a Trill and did their duty in informing the Federation about an alien race they just encountered or some friend of the Federation informed the Federation that Trills look like humans with spots, then any Trill they encounter would be from an unknown alien species. Besides it is incredibly stupid for Starfleet Officers in enemy territory to halt their mission to ask a bunch of strangers what race they came from.

starswordc

somtaawkhar wrote: »

Ronald D Moore and others have stated that Trek crews are mostly human for budget reasons and that, in reality, Starfleet is more balanced between species in terms of numbers.

I stopped buying that excuse after DS9 found a way to put rubber foreheads on every other background character but still didn't put them on most of the Starfleet extras.

artan42

mirrorchaos wrote: »

Quick process of elimination with knowledge on hand:
Proper head ridges started coming in around ST:SFS, so 1984 a few years before TNG was conceived and it took the people making those ridges 6-7 years before they got them right (around season 2-season 3 of TNG). the first attempt of course was ST:TMP in 1979 but those were fairly primative attempts.

I'm not referring to Klingons. I'm referring to one episode aliens. Code of Honour or Angel One types.

rattler2 wrote: »

Dax knowing McCoy doesn't mean McCoy knew Dax to that degree. Trill could have just played off the Symbiote name being a family name like how humans have a given and family name. So from a human perspective... Someone who is Joined with the Dax Symbiote might just be confused for someone who just has the last name Dax.

Hell... it wasn't common knowledge that the large majority of the Trill population was actually compatible with Symbiotes for Joining, a secret held REAL tight by the Symbiosis Comittee until some idiot stole the Dax Symbiote from Jadzia, which almost killed her. So how hard is it to believe that the actual existance of the Symbiotes had been a secret until revealed aboard Enterprise? We've seen cases of species keeping big secrets. The Federation is not all knowing.

I'm not saying he had intimate medical knowledge of Trills (some other intimate knowledge maybe) but he certainly would know more than Crusher appears to in TNG.

Besides, I'm sure he was close enough to get a good feel of the symbiote pouch and I'm no doctor but I think I'd have a few questions for an alien I was playing doctors with.

It's not difficult, early TNG outright stated the Klingons were part of the Federation, a few episodes later it was retconed and early TNG implies the Federation knew nothing about the Trill and DS9 later retconned the entire Trill/Federation relationship as well as Trill biology in general. Hell, the implication is in DS9 that Trill may be part of the Federation.

starkaos wrote: »

Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... time travel.

As far as Discovery and Trills go, Section 31 is not very open about the information it has collected over the years. After all, Section 31 has far more advanced technology than the Federation since it doesn't have to worry about the Prime Directive and playing nice with races with advanced technology. We know that Klingons likely new about Trills and Section 31 and Empress Georgiou knew about Trills, but there is currently no evidence that 23rd Century Starfleet knew about Trills.

Section 31 is Starfleet. The 23rd Century Section 31 is the 23rd Century Starfleet.

In case you mean S31 wouldn't have shared knowledge of Trills with other branches of Starfleet... What? There's no reason whatsoever for that. A high up guy in S31 was disguised as a Trill and it'd probably be a silly idea to disguise as something you knew nothing about incase you were asked questions.​​

rattler2

artan42 wrote: »

I'm not saying he had intimate medical knowledge of Trills (some other intimate knowledge maybe) but he certainly would know more than Crusher appears to in TNG.

Besides, I'm sure he was close enough to get a good feel of the symbiote pouch and I'm no doctor but I think I'd have a few questions for an alien I was playing doctors with.

It's not difficult, early TNG outright stated the Klingons were part of the Federation, a few episodes later it was retconed and early TNG implies the Federation knew nothing about the Trill and DS9 later retconned the entire Trill/Federation relationship as well as Trill biology in general. Hell, the implication is in DS9 that Trill may be part of the Federation.

I didn't doubt that the Trill were part of the Federation as far back as TNG. After all that Ambassador was acting on behalf of the Federation. We just hadn't seen a Trill in Starfleet until DS9 on screen.

Also... I don't remember there really being any actual physical sign of a pouch except during medical situations... and I think a medical tool was involved.

Granted it has been a while since I've seen DS9.

markhawkman

The "pouch" was an internal structure. It was not actually visible when closed. IIRC when Crusher transplanted a symbiote she had to cut open the abdominal cavity to open the "pouch".

As for Leland, the context of his disguise suggests that it was chosen more for ease of use than anything else. All he needs is the spots, no fancy surgery like changing the shape of his ears. AND he is now a race that the Klingons won't immediately shoot for visiting Qo'noS. That doesn't require him to know anything about Trill internal anatomy.

artan42

rattler2 wrote: »

Also... I don't remember there really being any actual physical sign of a pouch except during medical situations... and I think a medical tool was involved.

markhawkman wrote: »

The "pouch" was an internal structure. It was not actually visible when closed. IIRC when Crusher transplanted a symbiote she had to cut open the abdominal cavity to open the "pouch".

Yes, it's internal, but it still has an obvious presence. The symbiote is very close to the surface of the skin so is going to be obvious to anybody who's as close to the Trill as is implied here.

rattler2 wrote: »

As for Leland, the context of his disguise suggests that it was chosen more for ease of use than anything else. All he needs is the spots, no fancy surgery like changing the shape of his ears. AND he is now a race that the Klingons won't immediately shoot for visiting Qo'noS. That doesn't require him to know anything about Trill internal anatomy.

I wasn't saying he was an expert on Trill biology, only that the Trill are clearly known to Starfleet and that Leland is unlikely to pick a race he knows as little about as Crusher is implied to as he's an intelligence operative.​​

starkaos

artan42 wrote: »

starkaos wrote: »

Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... time travel.

As far as Discovery and Trills go, Section 31 is not very open about the information it has collected over the years. After all, Section 31 has far more advanced technology than the Federation since it doesn't have to worry about the Prime Directive and playing nice with races with advanced technology. We know that Klingons likely new about Trills and Section 31 and Empress Georgiou knew about Trills, but there is currently no evidence that 23rd Century Starfleet knew about Trills.

Section 31 is Starfleet. The 23rd Century Section 31 is the 23rd Century Starfleet.

In case you mean S31 wouldn't have shared knowledge of Trills with other branches of Starfleet... What? There's no reason whatsoever for that. A high up guy in S31 was disguised as a Trill and it'd probably be a silly idea to disguise as something you knew nothing about incase you were asked questions.​​

Section 31 is not Starfleet. It might have unofficial ties with certain Starfleet Officers, but they operate under their own rule which seems to be protect the Federation at any cost. Which is contradicted by being completely absent during the Klingon-Federation War except for one scene when Burnham boards the Discovery in prison garb. Starfleet is the public face of the Federation military while Section 31 does the disgusting things needed to be done to keep the Federation safe. Assassinating a Klingon with weird technology and replicating a couple of heads is not something Starfleet is willing to do or capable of doing. So we know that Section 31 is willing to do whatever it takes and has technology beyond what Starfleet has in the 2250s.

So Section 31 might know everything that there can be known about Trills including the Symbiotes, but have no need to release information about what they know about various alien races to the Federation. Unless Section 31 feels like Starfleet needs to know, then they are completely silent. It is far more reasonable to disguise as a Trill in Klingon space if Trills are relatively common in Klingon space rather than as a Human or another Federation member race or ally.

artan42

starkaos wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

starkaos wrote: »

Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... time travel.

As far as Discovery and Trills go, Section 31 is not very open about the information it has collected over the years. After all, Section 31 has far more advanced technology than the Federation since it doesn't have to worry about the Prime Directive and playing nice with races with advanced technology. We know that Klingons likely new about Trills and Section 31 and Empress Georgiou knew about Trills, but there is currently no evidence that 23rd Century Starfleet knew about Trills.

Section 31 is Starfleet. The 23rd Century Section 31 is the 23rd Century Starfleet.

In case you mean S31 wouldn't have shared knowledge of Trills with other branches of Starfleet... What? There's no reason whatsoever for that. A high up guy in S31 was disguised as a Trill and it'd probably be a silly idea to disguise as something you knew nothing about incase you were asked questions.

Section 31 is not Starfleet. It might have unofficial ties with certain Starfleet Officers, but they operate under their own rule which seems to be protect the Federation at any cost. Which is contradicted by being completely absent during the Klingon-Federation War except for one scene when Burnham boards the Discovery in prison garb. Starfleet is the public face of the Federation military while Section 31 does the disgusting things needed to be done to keep the Federation safe. Assassinating a Klingon with weird technology and replicating a couple of heads is not something Starfleet is willing to do or capable of doing. So we know that Section 31 is willing to do whatever it takes and has technology beyond what Starfleet has in the 2250s.

So Section 31 might know everything that there can be known about Trills including the Symbiotes, but have no need to release information about what they know about various alien races to the Federation. Unless Section 31 feels like Starfleet needs to know, then they are completely silent. It is far more reasonable to disguise as a Trill in Klingon space if Trills are relatively common in Klingon space rather than as a Human or another Federation member race or ally.

I don't know what Section 31 is in your headcanon but in the shows canon it's part of Starfleet. I remember now why I blocked your posts and can't even remember unhiding them.

Maybe in future use a different font colour or something when just posting fanfiction and it makes it more obvious to other people so they can ignore it.​​

markhawkman

artan42 wrote: »

rattler2 wrote: »

As for Leland, the context of his disguise suggests that it was chosen more for ease of use than anything else. All he needs is the spots, no fancy surgery like changing the shape of his ears. AND he is now a race that the Klingons won't immediately shoot for visiting Qo'noS. That doesn't require him to know anything about Trill internal anatomy.

I wasn't saying he was an expert on Trill biology, only that the Trill are clearly known to Starfleet and that Leland is unlikely to pick a race he knows as little about as Crusher is implied to as he's an intelligence operative.​​

Given that the majority of Trill AREN'T Joined, No he really doesn't need to know anything about being Joined. Why? because his cover story ISN'T him playing a Joined Trill. Also if the Feds don't know about Joined Trill the Klingons wouldn't either.

markhawkman

artan42 wrote: »

rattler2 wrote: »

Also... I don't remember there really being any actual physical sign of a pouch except during medical situations... and I think a medical tool was involved.

markhawkman wrote: »

The "pouch" was an internal structure. It was not actually visible when closed. IIRC when Crusher transplanted a symbiote she had to cut open the abdominal cavity to open the "pouch".

Yes, it's internal, but it still has an obvious presence. The symbiote is very close to the surface of the skin so is going to be obvious to anybody who's as close to the Trill as is implied here.

Can you point to the location of the Symbiote?

didn't think so.

brian334

markhawkman wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

rattler2 wrote: »

Also... I don't remember there really being any actual physical sign of a pouch except during medical situations... and I think a medical tool was involved.

markhawkman wrote: »

The "pouch" was an internal structure. It was not actually visible when closed. IIRC when Crusher transplanted a symbiote she had to cut open the abdominal cavity to open the "pouch".

Yes, it's internal, but it still has an obvious presence. The symbiote is very close to the surface of the skin so is going to be obvious to anybody who's as close to the Trill as is implied here.

Can you point to the location of the Symbiote?

didn't think so.

It's just behind Quark. Black swimsuit, you can't miss it.

Even if Dr. McCoy knew a Joined Trill in the Biblical fashion, how would he know that bump wasn't just a Trill gizzard or something?

ryan218

I feel like we may also be inferring a lot from what was a throwaway line by Dax. Jadzia was not unknown for letting her more...ravenous...thoughts run around. At the time she knew McCoy the symbiont's host was a little more modest as I recall.

Anyway, aside from that we know the Federation had relations with the Trill around the 2390s because Curzon is stated as having helped negotiate the Khitomer Accords (and since Jadzia remembers it in DS9, it must have been after he was joined).*

*Worth noting that he was also supposed to have mentored Sisko, so it could have been a later signing of the accords, since we know the Accords came to be a treaty of alliance some time in the 24th Century.

rattler2

artan42 wrote: »

I don't know what Section 31 is in your headcanon but in the shows canon it's part of Starfleet. I remember now why I blocked your posts and can't even remember unhiding them. ​​

I always got the sense that Section 31 was NOT a part of Starfleet, but had members who were Starfleet.
I mean... for the most part Section 31 has been portrayed as a clandestine group that lives in the shadows. Its existances was not common knowledge, and their survival demands secrecy. Not only that, they draw their name from a clause in the original Starfleet Charter.

brian334 wrote: »

It's just behind Quark. Black swimsuit, you can't miss it.

That's not a symbiote. That's a Trill. If we didn't know for a FACT that was Jadzia Dax... could be ANY Trill, Joined or Unjoined.

starkaos

artan42 wrote: »

starkaos wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

starkaos wrote: »

Uh, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that... time travel.

As far as Discovery and Trills go, Section 31 is not very open about the information it has collected over the years. After all, Section 31 has far more advanced technology than the Federation since it doesn't have to worry about the Prime Directive and playing nice with races with advanced technology. We know that Klingons likely new about Trills and Section 31 and Empress Georgiou knew about Trills, but there is currently no evidence that 23rd Century Starfleet knew about Trills.

Section 31 is Starfleet. The 23rd Century Section 31 is the 23rd Century Starfleet.

In case you mean S31 wouldn't have shared knowledge of Trills with other branches of Starfleet... What? There's no reason whatsoever for that. A high up guy in S31 was disguised as a Trill and it'd probably be a silly idea to disguise as something you knew nothing about incase you were asked questions.

Section 31 is not Starfleet. It might have unofficial ties with certain Starfleet Officers, but they operate under their own rule which seems to be protect the Federation at any cost. Which is contradicted by being completely absent during the Klingon-Federation War except for one scene when Burnham boards the Discovery in prison garb. Starfleet is the public face of the Federation military while Section 31 does the disgusting things needed to be done to keep the Federation safe. Assassinating a Klingon with weird technology and replicating a couple of heads is not something Starfleet is willing to do or capable of doing. So we know that Section 31 is willing to do whatever it takes and has technology beyond what Starfleet has in the 2250s.

So Section 31 might know everything that there can be known about Trills including the Symbiotes, but have no need to release information about what they know about various alien races to the Federation. Unless Section 31 feels like Starfleet needs to know, then they are completely silent. It is far more reasonable to disguise as a Trill in Klingon space if Trills are relatively common in Klingon space rather than as a Human or another Federation member race or ally.

I don't know what Section 31 is in your headcanon but in the shows canon it's part of Starfleet. I remember now why I blocked your posts and can't even remember unhiding them.

Maybe in future use a different font colour or something when just posting fanfiction and it makes it more obvious to other people so they can ignore it.​​

So anything you disagree with is fanfiction? I don't rely on headcanon only on what is shown in the series. Anything that someone says in an interview is not canon.

So which branch of Starfleet does Section 31 belong to and which Starfleet Admiral do they take orders from if Section 31 is part of Starfleet? Everything in Star Trek points to Section 31 being a completely autonomous organization that answers to no one. As I said before, the part of the Starfleet Charter that they claim to authorize their existence is a "few lines that make allowances for bending the rules during times of extraordinary threat." Which captain in Star Trek hasn't bent the rules during times of extraordinary threat at some point in their career? As far as we know, Article 14, Section 31 doesn't state anything about a autonomous organization that operates without any oversight dedicated to protect the Federation at any cost. DS9 only mentions that Section 31 is in the Starfleet Charter while Enterprise paraphrases what Article 14, Section 31 is in the Charter.

Section 31 is a part of the Federation. Certain members of Starfleet and the Federation might be part of Section 31 or Section 31 sympathizers, but there is no evidence of Section 31 being part of Starfleet. A debate could be made that the USS Discovery has Section 31 members on board due to that one guard with a Section 31 badge when Burnham first boarded the Discovery in her prison garb and Lorca was involved with Section 31, but that is just speculation.

jonsills

Comparison: In WWII, the British government operated the Bureau of Ungentlemanly Warfare (probably not its official designation, but its agents, including Roald Dahl and Christopher Lee, called it that later). It operated in the shadows, doing things the British government could not officially approve of. It was not a part of the Royal Armed Forces, but operated in the same theatres at times.

Similarly, S31 canonically is a background black ops group, not officially acknowledged nor a branch of Starfleet as such. (In my stories, Starfleet Intelligence has an adversarial relationship with S31, disapproving of their actions and their unit's existence.) It should be remembered that, as I have noted before, all the information we have on S31 comes from unreliable narrators. Presumably the upcoming show centering on former Emperor Georgiou will fill this out a bit - they certainly have a lot of room to work in.

(The technology demonstrated is certainly interesting. Can they possibly be working with one or another of those temporal agencies?)

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