I hope the game has an explanation for the horrible redentions of Klingons as portrayed in the CBS show. Please leave the Klingons in the proper canon of the Trek Universe.
You mean the Klingons that look basically the same as they did in TNG/DS9/VOY except for the fact they are bald?
I hope the game has an explanation for the horrible redentions of Klingons as portrayed in the CBS show. Please leave the Klingons in the proper canon of the Trek Universe.
You mean the Klingons that look basically the same as they did in TNG/DS9/VOY except for the fact they are bald?
I hope the game has an explanation for the horrible redentions of Klingons as portrayed in the CBS show. Please leave the Klingons in the proper canon of the Trek Universe.
You mean the Klingons that look basically the same as they did in TNG/DS9/VOY except for the fact they are bald?
And Purple, and have elongated heads.
and no facial expressions.
The result of excessive cosmetics, I'm sure. I have read though that fans are going to be 'blown away' by S2's Klingons. I do wonder whether they've redesigned them (slightly). Unless what I read was referring to story content.
Never had any intent to "insult" the devs. I am sure they already worked out what they will do however have they asked the players, the people who will be sent the new content in the Fall, that is the question. Yes we will play it because this is a game of constantly changing gear/consoles/loadouts that if something is in AOD that makes your ship better, you naturally are going to do it. If they make it like a Delta/Gamma/AOY-Temporal type then anyone would be silly to ignore the account wide rewards from leveling up a possible AOD toon.
I will admit I personally did not like how the AOY toons came into the mainstream part of the game. Too short and quick and fitting in with people who could be their grandkids. I am sure there are those who also would have liked to see the TOS universe expanded upon in the game/season. They now are just a forgotten memory, the content for that story arc, yes it shows up on the list of episodes to complete. Personally I have problems with having Star Trek series that go back in time since the current video/audio/graphics/etc. are different. The ST Enterprise is an example where they were behind the TOS but I think you even admit the ship look more thought out than the NCC1701 of TOS. However we could get in an arguement of that so I have stated why I have said what I did.
Yes I know streaming is the wave of the future. However I am willing to bet Star Trek Discovery has lower viewership than some of the other series, if I am wrong, then I am. Despite the comment of Star Trek has always cost us, yes it is called Cable/Sat TV. However on top of those cost, you then pay for another channel from CBS to view it. I am sure there are others who are watching it from less than legal methods. Obviously it has fans or it wouldn't have got renewed (now enough like the other series, once again that is something I can't confirm or deny but feel pretty certain on).
If the current Star Trek Discovery was on normal TV and streaming, would there have been more negative views of it because of the Klingon look and other decisions that were made for the show and to please all viewers. So will their ships somehow be T6 quality just as we had the Temporal Pack of ships, etc?
Obviously a series with Picard in it would be a natural draw for the subscription based CBS, I am sure it will be one of their flagships products that they hope to convince more viewers to subscribe.
I don't think Gene would be upset with viewers not liking a series. We really have left the view of Gene, after all he envisioned a changed universe where there was no poverty, no wars, no racism, etc (I don't remember the direct quote) however DS9 and Voyager both became more combative in their later seasons that did help the series, even Enterprise. Since Gene sadly passed away and his wife before either of them could have seen all of STNG, DS9, Voyager and so on, we can only speculate as to how these would have been viewed. However he did try to present a hopeful future.
Using your own words, "You don't want it. Fine. But this game isn't just for you. What about the other people that play it? You don't speak for them all (and more than I do)." I know I don't speak for the player base however neither of us do. In addition we both know that is the purpose of this forum topic to discuss it, both good and bad, from a new player, one from beta, one from day 1 release of the game. However if we don't sing the praises it seems we are not wanted to express our views and that of others who maybe just don't care to get into a war of words over the game, as there is so much many want to get done with the toons they have, that they will accept whatever is served them, as it is pointless to make an issue. I wish there was a way to poll the players with more detail and actually find out what we all feel.
Finding excuses to hate, I feel that was a harsh attack on me. I am not "hating" in the way you worded it. Dislike, yes. Not approving, yes. I also did a word check and there is not one mention of "hate" - disapproval, dislike, concerned, etc. yes. So if one doesn't like content proposals it is excuses?
So when someone doesn't like something they are finding excuses to dislike it, instead of listing reasons they have problems with it?
I am so glad some of you guys weren't around in 1979 when TMP hit the screens. The new look everything - the zero explanation for why the Klingons had changed... Dunno how you would have survived having to wait TWENTY-SIX YEARS for an explanation to that mystery. Mind you, you would have probably written letters to Gene and told him off and demanded he put things back to how you liked them; Klingons without ridges and no speaking a new language you had never ever heard them speak before *sigh*
Where was all this outrage when TNG changed how the Romulans looked, a change that was carried over into Enterprise? Where was it when DS9 changed how the Trills looked? Where was it when the Borg were retconned in First Contact?
Trek fans have become so hypocritical, hyper-critical and toxic over the last few years or so. I mean look at what's happened here - a game developer has announced a new expansion that will tie in with the current series being aired, and the thread has been highjacked by the moan brigade who have nothing to say about the expansion, but just want to moan about why they hate a show.
It's sad.
Really sad.
Time and again you've been told that AOD will take NOTHING away from you or your experience of STO, that it wont stop you playing Trek the way you want to play it. If you don't like Discovery, that's fine, but this is not the thread or place to be having this discussion.
People ask how long have I been playing STO - well the answer is simple: I have been here since the beginning. I just haven't always had a lot to say.
I am so glad some of you guys weren't around in 1979 when TMP hit the screens. The new look everything - the zero explanation for why the Klingons had changed... Dunno how you would have survived having to wait TWENTY-SIX YEARS for an explanation to that mystery. Mind you, you would have probably written letters to Gene and told him off and demanded he put things back to how you liked them; Klingons without ridges and no speaking a new language you had never ever heard them speak before *sigh*
Where was all this outrage when TNG changed how the Romulans looked, a change that was carried over into Enterprise? Where was it when DS9 changed how the Trills looked? Where was it when the Borg were retconned in First Contact?
Trek fans have become so hypocritical, hyper-critical and toxic over the last few years or so. I mean look at what's happened here - a game developer has announced a new expansion that will tie in with the current series being aired, and the thread has been highjacked by the moan brigade who have nothing to say about the expansion, but just want to moan about why they hate a show.
It's sad.
Really sad.
Time and again you've been told that AOD will take NOTHING away from you or your experience of STO, that it wont stop you playing Trek the way you want to play it. If you don't like Discovery, that's fine, but this is not the thread or place to be having this discussion.
I don't think this is specific to Trek fans, I think it's society in general. With social media now openly available to everyone, many feel the need to share their opinions to the public, and many others jump on the proverbial band wagon and before you know it, chaos ensures.
You can bet there were a few people displeased with the new Klingons, but they'd have gotten over it, but then they went on social media and saw someone who hated them and read a mini rage which then made them feel worse about their opinion further sending them into their own silly rage.
What a lot of people (as far as we go here) can't accept is, quite simply, change. I need only remind of the JJ Enterprise complaints, and then the TRIBBLE Enterprise complaints. There's just no pleasing some people. Times change. Adapt.
There's an old saying that 'Opinions are like as*holes , everyone has one but they think each others stink.'
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I don't think Gene would be upset with viewers not liking a series. We really have left the view of Gene, after all he envisioned a changed universe where there was no poverty, no wars, no racism, etc (I don't remember the direct quote) however DS9 and Voyager both became more combative in their later seasons that did help the series, even Enterprise. Since Gene sadly passed away and his wife before either of them could have seen all of STNG, DS9, Voyager and so on, we can only speculate as to how these would have been viewed. However he did try to present a hopeful future.
Using your own words, "You don't want it. Fine. But this game isn't just for you. What about the other people that play it? You don't speak for them all (and more than I do)." I know I don't speak for the player base however neither of us do. In addition we both know that is the purpose of this forum topic to discuss it, both good and bad, from a new player, one from beta, one from day 1 release of the game. However if we don't sing the praises it seems we are not wanted to express our views and that of others who maybe just don't care to get into a war of words over the game, as there is so much many want to get done with the toons they have, that they will accept whatever is served them, as it is pointless to make an issue. I wish there was a way to poll the players with more detail and actually find out what we all feel.
Finding excuses to hate, I feel that was a harsh attack on me. I am not "hating" in the way you worded it. Dislike, yes. Not approving, yes. I also did a word check and there is not one mention of "hate" - disapproval, dislike, concerned, etc. yes. So if one doesn't like content proposals it is excuses?
So when someone doesn't like something they are finding excuses to dislike it, instead of listing reasons they have problems with it?
Majel Barrett-Roddenberry lived to see the end of Enterprise (even voiced a computer in the show) and even lent her voice to the first of the JJ films. In fact, Majel is the only actor to have been involved with every single incarnation of Trek, with the exception of Discovery. Eugene Roddenberry (Gene and Majel's son) has been involved heavily with the whole process - including Discovery. Discovery is the first Trek not to have Majel's involvement - but it still has family involvement via Eugene. Roddenberry Productions help produce the show. So the Roddenberry's are still involved, Eugene has even stated his dad would love Discovery.
As to what Majel thought... plenty of interviews out in the world with her thoughts on TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT and JJ stuff. She loved them all - she was a part of them all (she died in 2008, btw). She said that Gene would have loved JJ's film.
What you asked for, in your original post, was for the devs to postpone AOD and just focus on expanding the content already in the game. You had a paragraph about how your military experience shaped your view on this content, because it would confuse the issue of who the enemy in the game was. You expressed concerns that the devs hadn't taken the time to look at how adding AOD would impact the game and it's content and all the consequences of it, how Discovery wasn't mainstream enough to be included because it can only be watched on a streaming service, and is it right to put it in the game when people haven't seen it.
It's a critical post, and implies a lot about what you think of the people working at Cryptic. As the Devs have repeatedly said in the live-streams: nothing is added to STO that hasn't been asked for by a majority of the people playing. Take a moment to let that sink in.
You can bet there were a few people displeased with the new Klingons, but they'd have gotten over it, but then they went on social media and saw someone who hated them and read a mini rage which then made them feel worse about their opinion further sending them into their own silly rage.
What a lot of people (as far as we go here) can't accept is, quite simply, change. I need only remind of the JJ Enterprise complaints, and then the TRIBBLE Enterprise complaints. There's just no pleasing some people. Times change. Adapt.
Is it rage to point out when people are being stupid about something? Not really. I find most of the comments on here amusing. As many people have said: I've heard these arguments many times before. In fact, each and every time a new Trek series airs. I find it funny that so many focus on visual details, but have nothing to say about the fact they haven't been consistent in the past. It's excuse to pour hate on something because it doesn't fit the narrow view of what they feel Trek should be.
I'm sure the same people will have a lot to say when the Picard series starts. Nerd rage is just... funny at times. It is after all, just a fictional show. Their are much bigger problems in the world, lol.
People ask how long have I been playing STO - well the answer is simple: I have been here since the beginning. I just haven't always had a lot to say.
You can bet there were a few people displeased with the new Klingons, but they'd have gotten over it, but then they went on social media and saw someone who hated them and read a mini rage which then made them feel worse about their opinion further sending them into their own silly rage.
What a lot of people (as far as we go here) can't accept is, quite simply, change. I need only remind of the JJ Enterprise complaints, and then the TRIBBLE Enterprise complaints. There's just no pleasing some people. Times change. Adapt.
Is it rage to point out when people are being stupid about something? Not really. I find most of the comments on here amusing. As many people have said: I've heard these arguments many times before. In fact, each and every time a new Trek series airs. I find it funny that so many focus on visual details, but have nothing to say about the fact they haven't been consistent in the past. It's excuse to pour hate on something because it doesn't fit the narrow view of what they feel Trek should be.
I'm sure the same people will have a lot to say when the Picard series starts. Nerd rage is just... funny at times. It is after all, just a fictional show. Their are much bigger problems in the world, lol.
I hope the game has an explanation for the horrible redentions of Klingons as portrayed in the CBS show. Please leave the Klingons in the proper canon of the Trek Universe.
You mean the Klingons that look basically the same as they did in TNG/DS9/VOY except for the fact they are bald?
You must have opted to view Discovery minus your eyeglasses? Bold choice that, and I really wish that I had considered doing so myself to ease the pain.
It is an amusing stretch to compare the Klingmonsters from Discovery to the noble warrior race from the various previous spinoff series. The resulting public relations flap which divided the Star Trek fanbase is also behind the recent reports available that suggest another look for the Klingons will be forthcoming in Season 2.
[quote="captainwells;c-13411923"][quote="somtaawkhar;c-13411505"][quote="loganmercury;c-13411498"]I hope the game has an explanation for the horrible redentions of Klingons as portrayed in the CBS show. Please leave the Klingons in the proper canon of the Trek Universe. [/quote] You mean the Klingons that look basically the same as they did in TNG/DS9/VOY except for the fact they are bald? [/quote]
You must have opted to view Discovery minus your eyeglasses? Bold choice that, and I really wish that I had considered doing so myself to ease the pain.
It is an amusing stretch to compare the Klingmonsters from Discovery to the noble warrior race from the various previous spinoff series. The resulting public relations flap which divided the Star Trek fanbase is also behind the recent reports available that suggest another look for the Klingons will be forthcoming in Season 2. [/quote]
Me thinks you wouldn't have survived well in 1979 after the TMP Klingons hit the screens.
Actually TOS Klingons weren't so much into honour, but were a devious violent backstabbing race. TNG changed all that, shifted the deviousness onto the Romulans - who oddly enough in TOS were shown to be the honourable warriors, and placing high value on honour.
People ask how long have I been playing STO - well the answer is simple: I have been here since the beginning. I just haven't always had a lot to say.
I hope the game has an explanation for the horrible redentions of Klingons as portrayed in the CBS show. Please leave the Klingons in the proper canon of the Trek Universe.
You mean the Klingons that look basically the same as they did in TNG/DS9/VOY except for the fact they are bald?
You must have opted to view Discovery minus your eyeglasses? Bold choice that, and I really wish that I had considered doing so myself to ease the pain.
It is an amusing stretch to compare the Klingmonsters from Discovery to the noble warrior race from the various previous spinoff series. The resulting public relations flap which divided the Star Trek fanbase is also behind the recent reports available that suggest another look for the Klingons will be forthcoming in Season 2.
While SOME Klingons liked to pretend to be noble, they're the exception... And that's just DS9. In TOS and TAS they were more underhanded than Romulans. In TNG their characterization was all over the place.
Worf is so far from a normal Klingon that most of them treat him like a "Klingon in DNA only".
In Star Trek: The Role Playing Game (FASA, 1982) the smooth-headed Klingons seen in the original series were called "fusions", in particular "human fusions", with "Romulan fusions" also existing. They were a deliberate blending of Klingon genes with those of other races in an effort to gain an understanding of, and thus advantage over, the other races. Human fusions were chosen for service on the Federation border due to the high number of humans present in the Federation. Fusions of both types were considered inferior to pure strain "Imperial Klingons" and were segregated
Many Trekkies (myself included) accepted this explanation with little griping or complaint. In fact, many of us were more irritated with the ST:E explanation moreso than the old FASA RPG one.
Wow, really? You accepted that they were hybrids over [failed] genetic experimentation, which incidentally is very similar. Why?
In Star Trek: The Role Playing Game (FASA, 1982) the smooth-headed Klingons seen in the original series were called "fusions", in particular "human fusions", with "Romulan fusions" also existing. They were a deliberate blending of Klingon genes with those of other races in an effort to gain an understanding of, and thus advantage over, the other races. Human fusions were chosen for service on the Federation border due to the high number of humans present in the Federation. Fusions of both types were considered inferior to pure strain "Imperial Klingons" and were segregated
Many Trekkies (myself included) accepted this explanation with little griping or complaint. In fact, many of us were more irritated with the ST:E explanation moreso than the old FASA RPG one.
Wow, really? You accepted that they were hybrids over [failed] genetic experimentation, which incidentally is very similar. Why?
Accepted? No, less IRRITATED. Big difference.
In other words, the fusion excuse was okay, but not great and the failed genetic experiment was even worse.
The "servitor race" idea that was floated around after ST:TMP was a neat concept. I wish they would have made that one official.
Surely failed genetic experimentation is more plausible than actual genetic experimentation and unnatural hybrid species? I thought ENT did a fair job at explaining the Klingon appearance.
Then we've got Discovery Klingons, which I just figure are a more modern take. As much as they're disliked, there comes a time when what's deemed canon needs to be more flexible. The ships and tech of Discovery seem more advanced than it should be simply because this is a more modern show and we're capable of a lot more. Too many people get too frustrated on insignificant inconsistencies for the sake of just being awkward - they're ultimately ruining the experience for themselves.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I was there and the explanation came in the form of FASA the Role Playing Game in 1982. That answer was the "Klingon Fusion". The idea was that the Klingons were genetically fusing with Terrans and Romulans to understand both the Romulan Star Empire and the Federation.
From Wikipedia:
In Star Trek: The Role Playing Game (FASA, 1982) the smooth-headed Klingons seen in the original series were called "fusions", in particular "human fusions", with "Romulan fusions" also existing. They were a deliberate blending of Klingon genes with those of other races in an effort to gain an understanding of, and thus advantage over, the other races. Human fusions were chosen for service on the Federation border due to the high number of humans present in the Federation. Fusions of both types were considered inferior to pure strain "Imperial Klingons" and were segregated
Many Trekkies (myself included) accepted this explanation with little griping or complaint. In fact, many of us were more irritated with the ST:E explanation moreso than the old FASA RPG one.
Ah, FASA. Because of course what they state is canon...
People ask how long have I been playing STO - well the answer is simple: I have been here since the beginning. I just haven't always had a lot to say.
What I really wish you would do instead is expand on the content that is already there. I don't know why the conflict with the Hurq and the addition of the Dominion lasted about 8 missions/quest. I would prefer you take a new season and develop stories so it last a year in real time. It feels like I am reading Cliff Notes (those yellow books that one could use to find our all they needed to know about a book assigned to read). Here is Hurq. Here is Odo and Jem's. They fight, secret revealed, save founders, end of story.
I think this is an artificial complaint. Victory is Life followed the same pattern as other major content. How long did we spend fighting the Iconians? One season. Vaadwuar? One expansion. Some species may have more protracted arcs (Undine, Tzenkethi, Na'Kuhl) but to hold that as an unbreakable rule that brooks no exception (such that Cryptic is wrong for moving onto AoD) is ignoring (per convenience) those arcs which were able to present an enemy faction and resolve the major conflict in one outing.
Could more have been said? Invariably yes, any given story can be padded out. But I think Victory is life both neatly presented and resolved their conflict. Adding more simply to have more (and conveniently push back the next subject) I don't think would have been improvement.
The other problem with Discovery as a basis is that not everyone is watching it nor paying to watch it.
That's true with every Star Trek series. You may imagine that only die-hard trek fans with an encyclopedic grasp of all factions and events play STO but that's simply projection. I myself haven't seen every episode of TOS and I'm not a fan of the aesthetic, plot, and tone of the average TOS episode. There are brilliant exceptions but imagine what I was looking at with Agents of Yesterday, an expansion themed to the literal sensibilities of a part of the franchise that I wasn't strongly attached to (I would have much preferred later TMP, Voyage Home->Generations) and in some areas, core to sci-fi writing, actively disliked (it was a good show then but I think you need to have that context firmly in mind to appreciate a lot of what's offered. It's a part of its time.)
That said, I didn't launch into a campaign to prevent AoY from happening. I appreciated the fact that other people exist, that this part of the franchise can mean a lot to people (ditto Discovery) and hold deep cultural significance (see. reviving Star Trek again), and something that's nice for them (and mind you: Discovery fans are real people with valid appreciations) doesn't represent a zero-sum game coming at my expense (simply because I don't share their same reaction set. See. the classical Greek concept of stasis for how utterly broken the "DSC can't be in STO" mindset is.) I made AoY my own and I was able to appreciate those stories, characters, and episodes without invoking the problems I have with a very 60's TV production, despite how heavily it was being referenced.
It was what it was. It was not the end of the world and the same can all be said for anyone looking at AoD now and letting their fear and distaste (however that's being derived) for a TV show overwhelm their ability to interact with a much more deeply integrated video game. Remember the mission Brushfire? Were you able to appreciate that without (necessarily) liking ST. Insurrection? Is every Romulan flying a Scimitar proclaiming a positive opinion for Nemesis? What about the Vengeance? Does it's ubiquity in Sol system mean that Into Darkness is the most cherished work of the franchise? Final Frontier brought us Nimbus III. Did that connection force folks to rage-quit LoR? No, because simply referencing a creative work isn't the same as replicating that production's impact on its original audience. It's a reference and whether the secondary production succeeds or fails at connecting with its audience is up to that production (ie. AoD.)
STO isn't going to stop being STO, the devs have been very clear about this. Simply take upcoming content for what it means in the context of the game, just as you do for all original content and references to episodes that either you didn't see or don't remember clearly enough to pin-point (potential examples: Elachi, Tzenkethi, Vaadwuar, and Hur'Q.) You don't need to subscribe to CBS all access, become a fan of Discovery, buy the T-Shirt, tweet the hashtag, or change what you do and what you like in any single way to continue having a good time with the game.
It's just stuff, make of it what you will.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Perhaps my use of the term "noble" was ill considered by some here, but then as an adjective that word means "belonging to a hereditary class with high social or political status; aristocratic."
Talks of backstabbing depictions and or "fusions" explanations does not, nor should not detract from how the Klingons have predominantly been portrayed throughout Star Trek since that 1979 date the one twit mentioned above.
What follows is a more thorough analysis of the tardigrades controversy, pulling directly from the dev's blog and teasers, so jump passed the spoiler tags for the main point here.
Just to throw a little water on the Tardigrades thing (the Lt. notwithstanding): the single trailer which showcased the Tardigrade in Tardigrades was released in July 2017. No art regarding the Tardigrades role in game had been shown prior (just abstract FX.) Discovery aired the following September. The game also hasn't been released, so youtube teasers and associated blog posts represent the only public source of information on this work. As it stands, the timing doesn't seem (to me at least) realistic for CBS lifting their tardigrades (a pop science mainstay thanks to notable NASA experiments and Cosmos 2.0) from this game.
And having reviewed the Tardigrades dev blog myself, the commonalities are overstated to the point of being disingenuous. The game has a lot of other characters which have no parallels with Discovery [either visually or thematically] and the two that do have some similarities (Culver's "doppelganger" is a conventional white guy with light brown beard in game, it's a shadowed still from an off-hand piece of animation posted after Cruz was cast that's being shown in reference to Discovery. I think that needs some explanation on the part of those doing the comparisons) follow much more closely in their characters and roles with James T. Kirk (sci-fi lead) and Uhura (communications officer) than Stamets and Burnham. It should also be noted that when Discovery was in development, Tardigrades was posting re-imaginings of Egyptian architecture, naked cave diving, and NSFW character interactions (this was not DSC in tone or style and there's dialog from earlier stills which absolutely requires a caution for those investigating the topic.) Most of the game's content bears no similarity to Discovery (more so: Stargate SG-1, including the ship interiors [which are very similar to the Daedalus.])
And Tardigrade's Tardigrades are a direct lift from Dune combining Guild Navigator with Sandworm with a color pallet of spice saturated eyes (and warp effects from the Scifi channel miniseries.) The game's creator copies Dune's (1984 movie) intro sequence for what is at least a trailer, but appears to be the intro to the game itself. And I can say that because he dubs his intro with VO taken from Dune 1984. And the plot of Tardigrades appears to be a reimagining of the discovery of Arrakis, substituting "Dune" with Earth circa 20,000 BC (complete with the formation of titular deserts in the game's main locations, likely with some connection to the competing team's work with Tardigrades/Sandworm-Navigators.)
In short, this is generic sci-fi in characters and visuals and an amalgamation in plot detail. It's also a labor of love but what the dev is bringing to the table isn't what appeared in Discovery. The main issue seems (to me) simply the invocation of a pop-science figurehead. And as such, convergent evolution (operating under the pop-sci zeitgeist) seems to me (by far) the most likely scenario.
This has no relation to Star Trek Online, as any presumption of a successful lawsuit and changes to the IP need to first be a lot more up front with details regarding the complete game (I'm honestly disappointed in the coverage and comparison vids.) As it is, I think a well intentioned indie dev is being led on by internet commentary which ultimately doesn't have to take responsibility for a serious legal matter (controversy being compelling drama). If it goes further then it's up to the courts (and we'll certainly hear about any developments) but in reviewing the material in full, I don't think there's a likely prospect of this ever having a material impact on STO. These are very, very, very different things in granular detail and broad generalizations.
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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Comments
and no facial expressions.
I will admit I personally did not like how the AOY toons came into the mainstream part of the game. Too short and quick and fitting in with people who could be their grandkids. I am sure there are those who also would have liked to see the TOS universe expanded upon in the game/season. They now are just a forgotten memory, the content for that story arc, yes it shows up on the list of episodes to complete. Personally I have problems with having Star Trek series that go back in time since the current video/audio/graphics/etc. are different. The ST Enterprise is an example where they were behind the TOS but I think you even admit the ship look more thought out than the NCC1701 of TOS. However we could get in an arguement of that so I have stated why I have said what I did.
Yes I know streaming is the wave of the future. However I am willing to bet Star Trek Discovery has lower viewership than some of the other series, if I am wrong, then I am. Despite the comment of Star Trek has always cost us, yes it is called Cable/Sat TV. However on top of those cost, you then pay for another channel from CBS to view it. I am sure there are others who are watching it from less than legal methods. Obviously it has fans or it wouldn't have got renewed (now enough like the other series, once again that is something I can't confirm or deny but feel pretty certain on).
If the current Star Trek Discovery was on normal TV and streaming, would there have been more negative views of it because of the Klingon look and other decisions that were made for the show and to please all viewers. So will their ships somehow be T6 quality just as we had the Temporal Pack of ships, etc?
Obviously a series with Picard in it would be a natural draw for the subscription based CBS, I am sure it will be one of their flagships products that they hope to convince more viewers to subscribe.
I don't think Gene would be upset with viewers not liking a series. We really have left the view of Gene, after all he envisioned a changed universe where there was no poverty, no wars, no racism, etc (I don't remember the direct quote) however DS9 and Voyager both became more combative in their later seasons that did help the series, even Enterprise. Since Gene sadly passed away and his wife before either of them could have seen all of STNG, DS9, Voyager and so on, we can only speculate as to how these would have been viewed. However he did try to present a hopeful future.
Using your own words, "You don't want it. Fine. But this game isn't just for you. What about the other people that play it? You don't speak for them all (and more than I do)." I know I don't speak for the player base however neither of us do. In addition we both know that is the purpose of this forum topic to discuss it, both good and bad, from a new player, one from beta, one from day 1 release of the game. However if we don't sing the praises it seems we are not wanted to express our views and that of others who maybe just don't care to get into a war of words over the game, as there is so much many want to get done with the toons they have, that they will accept whatever is served them, as it is pointless to make an issue. I wish there was a way to poll the players with more detail and actually find out what we all feel.
Finding excuses to hate, I feel that was a harsh attack on me. I am not "hating" in the way you worded it. Dislike, yes. Not approving, yes. I also did a word check and there is not one mention of "hate" - disapproval, dislike, concerned, etc. yes. So if one doesn't like content proposals it is excuses?
So when someone doesn't like something they are finding excuses to dislike it, instead of listing reasons they have problems with it?
Where was all this outrage when TNG changed how the Romulans looked, a change that was carried over into Enterprise? Where was it when DS9 changed how the Trills looked? Where was it when the Borg were retconned in First Contact?
Trek fans have become so hypocritical, hyper-critical and toxic over the last few years or so. I mean look at what's happened here - a game developer has announced a new expansion that will tie in with the current series being aired, and the thread has been highjacked by the moan brigade who have nothing to say about the expansion, but just want to moan about why they hate a show.
It's sad.
Really sad.
Time and again you've been told that AOD will take NOTHING away from you or your experience of STO, that it wont stop you playing Trek the way you want to play it. If you don't like Discovery, that's fine, but this is not the thread or place to be having this discussion.
You can bet there were a few people displeased with the new Klingons, but they'd have gotten over it, but then they went on social media and saw someone who hated them and read a mini rage which then made them feel worse about their opinion further sending them into their own silly rage.
What a lot of people (as far as we go here) can't accept is, quite simply, change. I need only remind of the JJ Enterprise complaints, and then the TRIBBLE Enterprise complaints. There's just no pleasing some people. Times change. Adapt.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
What's a "redention?"
Majel Barrett-Roddenberry lived to see the end of Enterprise (even voiced a computer in the show) and even lent her voice to the first of the JJ films. In fact, Majel is the only actor to have been involved with every single incarnation of Trek, with the exception of Discovery. Eugene Roddenberry (Gene and Majel's son) has been involved heavily with the whole process - including Discovery. Discovery is the first Trek not to have Majel's involvement - but it still has family involvement via Eugene. Roddenberry Productions help produce the show. So the Roddenberry's are still involved, Eugene has even stated his dad would love Discovery.
As to what Majel thought... plenty of interviews out in the world with her thoughts on TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT and JJ stuff. She loved them all - she was a part of them all (she died in 2008, btw). She said that Gene would have loved JJ's film.
What you asked for, in your original post, was for the devs to postpone AOD and just focus on expanding the content already in the game. You had a paragraph about how your military experience shaped your view on this content, because it would confuse the issue of who the enemy in the game was. You expressed concerns that the devs hadn't taken the time to look at how adding AOD would impact the game and it's content and all the consequences of it, how Discovery wasn't mainstream enough to be included because it can only be watched on a streaming service, and is it right to put it in the game when people haven't seen it.
It's a critical post, and implies a lot about what you think of the people working at Cryptic. As the Devs have repeatedly said in the live-streams: nothing is added to STO that hasn't been asked for by a majority of the people playing. Take a moment to let that sink in.
Is it rage to point out when people are being stupid about something? Not really. I find most of the comments on here amusing. As many people have said: I've heard these arguments many times before. In fact, each and every time a new Trek series airs. I find it funny that so many focus on visual details, but have nothing to say about the fact they haven't been consistent in the past. It's excuse to pour hate on something because it doesn't fit the narrow view of what they feel Trek should be.
I'm sure the same people will have a lot to say when the Picard series starts. Nerd rage is just... funny at times. It is after all, just a fictional show. Their are much bigger problems in the world, lol.
I canny disagree.
You must have opted to view Discovery minus your eyeglasses? Bold choice that, and I really wish that I had considered doing so myself to ease the pain.
It is an amusing stretch to compare the Klingmonsters from Discovery to the noble warrior race from the various previous spinoff series. The resulting public relations flap which divided the Star Trek fanbase is also behind the recent reports available that suggest another look for the Klingons will be forthcoming in Season 2.
You mean the Klingons that look basically the same as they did in TNG/DS9/VOY except for the fact they are bald?
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You must have opted to view Discovery minus your eyeglasses? Bold choice that, and I really wish that I had considered doing so myself to ease the pain.
It is an amusing stretch to compare the Klingmonsters from Discovery to the noble warrior race from the various previous spinoff series. The resulting public relations flap which divided the Star Trek fanbase is also behind the recent reports available that suggest another look for the Klingons will be forthcoming in Season 2.
[/quote]
Me thinks you wouldn't have survived well in 1979 after the TMP Klingons hit the screens.
Actually TOS Klingons weren't so much into honour, but were a devious violent backstabbing race. TNG changed all that, shifted the deviousness onto the Romulans - who oddly enough in TOS were shown to be the honourable warriors, and placing high value on honour.
Worf is so far from a normal Klingon that most of them treat him like a "Klingon in DNA only".
My character Tsin'xing
Then we've got Discovery Klingons, which I just figure are a more modern take. As much as they're disliked, there comes a time when what's deemed canon needs to be more flexible. The ships and tech of Discovery seem more advanced than it should be simply because this is a more modern show and we're capable of a lot more. Too many people get too frustrated on insignificant inconsistencies for the sake of just being awkward - they're ultimately ruining the experience for themselves.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Ah, FASA. Because of course what they state is canon...
I think this is an artificial complaint. Victory is Life followed the same pattern as other major content. How long did we spend fighting the Iconians? One season. Vaadwuar? One expansion. Some species may have more protracted arcs (Undine, Tzenkethi, Na'Kuhl) but to hold that as an unbreakable rule that brooks no exception (such that Cryptic is wrong for moving onto AoD) is ignoring (per convenience) those arcs which were able to present an enemy faction and resolve the major conflict in one outing.
Could more have been said? Invariably yes, any given story can be padded out. But I think Victory is life both neatly presented and resolved their conflict. Adding more simply to have more (and conveniently push back the next subject) I don't think would have been improvement.
That's true with every Star Trek series. You may imagine that only die-hard trek fans with an encyclopedic grasp of all factions and events play STO but that's simply projection. I myself haven't seen every episode of TOS and I'm not a fan of the aesthetic, plot, and tone of the average TOS episode. There are brilliant exceptions but imagine what I was looking at with Agents of Yesterday, an expansion themed to the literal sensibilities of a part of the franchise that I wasn't strongly attached to (I would have much preferred later TMP, Voyage Home->Generations) and in some areas, core to sci-fi writing, actively disliked (it was a good show then but I think you need to have that context firmly in mind to appreciate a lot of what's offered. It's a part of its time.)
That said, I didn't launch into a campaign to prevent AoY from happening. I appreciated the fact that other people exist, that this part of the franchise can mean a lot to people (ditto Discovery) and hold deep cultural significance (see. reviving Star Trek again), and something that's nice for them (and mind you: Discovery fans are real people with valid appreciations) doesn't represent a zero-sum game coming at my expense (simply because I don't share their same reaction set. See. the classical Greek concept of stasis for how utterly broken the "DSC can't be in STO" mindset is.) I made AoY my own and I was able to appreciate those stories, characters, and episodes without invoking the problems I have with a very 60's TV production, despite how heavily it was being referenced.
It was what it was. It was not the end of the world and the same can all be said for anyone looking at AoD now and letting their fear and distaste (however that's being derived) for a TV show overwhelm their ability to interact with a much more deeply integrated video game. Remember the mission Brushfire? Were you able to appreciate that without (necessarily) liking ST. Insurrection? Is every Romulan flying a Scimitar proclaiming a positive opinion for Nemesis? What about the Vengeance? Does it's ubiquity in Sol system mean that Into Darkness is the most cherished work of the franchise? Final Frontier brought us Nimbus III. Did that connection force folks to rage-quit LoR? No, because simply referencing a creative work isn't the same as replicating that production's impact on its original audience. It's a reference and whether the secondary production succeeds or fails at connecting with its audience is up to that production (ie. AoD.)
STO isn't going to stop being STO, the devs have been very clear about this. Simply take upcoming content for what it means in the context of the game, just as you do for all original content and references to episodes that either you didn't see or don't remember clearly enough to pin-point (potential examples: Elachi, Tzenkethi, Vaadwuar, and Hur'Q.) You don't need to subscribe to CBS all access, become a fan of Discovery, buy the T-Shirt, tweet the hashtag, or change what you do and what you like in any single way to continue having a good time with the game.
It's just stuff, make of it what you will.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Talks of backstabbing depictions and or "fusions" explanations does not, nor should not detract from how the Klingons have predominantly been portrayed throughout Star Trek since that 1979 date the one twit mentioned above.
Qapla'
This up coming season might not be a good idea given CBS Discovery is going to be sued for plagiarism.
cbs replied now
And having reviewed the Tardigrades dev blog myself, the commonalities are overstated to the point of being disingenuous. The game has a lot of other characters which have no parallels with Discovery [either visually or thematically] and the two that do have some similarities (Culver's "doppelganger" is a conventional white guy with light brown beard in game, it's a shadowed still from an off-hand piece of animation posted after Cruz was cast that's being shown in reference to Discovery. I think that needs some explanation on the part of those doing the comparisons) follow much more closely in their characters and roles with James T. Kirk (sci-fi lead) and Uhura (communications officer) than Stamets and Burnham. It should also be noted that when Discovery was in development, Tardigrades was posting re-imaginings of Egyptian architecture, naked cave diving, and NSFW character interactions (this was not DSC in tone or style and there's dialog from earlier stills which absolutely requires a caution for those investigating the topic.) Most of the game's content bears no similarity to Discovery (more so: Stargate SG-1, including the ship interiors [which are very similar to the Daedalus.])
And Tardigrade's Tardigrades are a direct lift from Dune combining Guild Navigator with Sandworm with a color pallet of spice saturated eyes (and warp effects from the Scifi channel miniseries.) The game's creator copies Dune's (1984 movie) intro sequence for what is at least a trailer, but appears to be the intro to the game itself. And I can say that because he dubs his intro with VO taken from Dune 1984. And the plot of Tardigrades appears to be a reimagining of the discovery of Arrakis, substituting "Dune" with Earth circa 20,000 BC (complete with the formation of titular deserts in the game's main locations, likely with some connection to the competing team's work with Tardigrades/Sandworm-Navigators.)
In short, this is generic sci-fi in characters and visuals and an amalgamation in plot detail. It's also a labor of love but what the dev is bringing to the table isn't what appeared in Discovery. The main issue seems (to me) simply the invocation of a pop-science figurehead. And as such, convergent evolution (operating under the pop-sci zeitgeist) seems to me (by far) the most likely scenario.
This has no relation to Star Trek Online, as any presumption of a successful lawsuit and changes to the IP need to first be a lot more up front with details regarding the complete game (I'm honestly disappointed in the coverage and comparison vids.) As it is, I think a well intentioned indie dev is being led on by internet commentary which ultimately doesn't have to take responsibility for a serious legal matter (controversy being compelling drama). If it goes further then it's up to the courts (and we'll certainly hear about any developments) but in reviewing the material in full, I don't think there's a likely prospect of this ever having a material impact on STO. These are very, very, very different things in granular detail and broad generalizations.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!