I’ll admit to difference of opinion with a few people here but I’ll never go and call them “filthy dps’ers” or discredit an entire section of the community based on where they choose to hang out. I’ll only get defensive when someone starts making assumptions that the part of the community I call home is worse than everywhere else (backing that up with offensive quotes from their friends as if to push the idea).
We have differed on a few opinions, but that's fine. I just want to clarify that I have enjoyed the respectful exchange of ideas and opinions and also have no problem with anyone that feels differently.
In the end, that's what sites like this are for, respectful exchange of ideas. I actually think there is a lot of good discussion in this thread and am pleased that it's been allowed to progress.
I like a good exchange too, but I must say I feel somewhat disheartened seeing everyone qualified as 'scrubs' ("not counting like perhaps 5-10 ppl"). That shows a disdain for, well, literally almost everybody here. And frankly, it makes me somewhat uncomfortable. As for myself, I'll stick to what LaughingTrendy said: "Your fun isn't wrong!"
Fly safe!
I've never said that anyone's fun is wrong. And you know it. But I'm frankly tired of constantly being TRIBBLE on when all I'm trying to do is to help others. I mean, there are tons of players here who proudly wave "playing since Beta or playing since F2P" flag, yet post absolute nonsense and still complain how they don't succeed in game. I've tried to offer my help to everyone and were at the beginning (in my opinion) incredibly polite, but when the only answer you get is essentially "f--- you too", then one can't stay simply polite all the time. Have all of my posts in this thread been incredibly nice and am I proud of them? No, but in the same time I don't really regret them either, because c'mon, maybe it's time to either try not to suck or stop complaining?
This is feeling shared by pretty much every friend I have in game, hence the disdain towards people who frequent forums. It's just from personal experience, people in general in here tend to act in a much more rude and incoherent manner than, say in Reddit or in game channels.
I want a nice casual game I can relax in without needing to chase the latest meta, and without needing to seek out specialist circles to play within all the time."
I'd love to go in to runs on high end content with a well set up team following a trinity approach (your video shows it works) but where is a person to find that these days?
Which is it? Do you want a completely casual gameplay experience or you want to play elites with high-end team? You can't have both.
The forum is absolutely filled with examples like this.
The only one acting rude here is you I’m afraid. You might not agree with us and might find our opinions at odds with your own feeling towards the game or how people play, but nobody else here is insulting players/forum users or whatever else. Nobody else here is posting up quotes telling us all that we’re looked upon as scum and then acting as if that’s somethibg to be proud of. If you do dislike us lot here then do t post here any more. If you find your advice ignored then don’t post it anymore. If someone tells you to naff off or whatever then just ignore them and walk away from the conversation.
The only reason people are getting defensive here is because you keep throwing around generalist accusations and insults against people using this very forum we are speaking on. A lot of people have been here for years, respect each other and play together too. They don’t deserve to be insulted simply because you disagree with a few opinions.
Actually, TRIBBLE it, I'll up the stakes. You guys and girls complain that you'll have hard time finding people to play with, and how the queues are empty, and I know majority of you won't accept me in your queue. There are more than 5 ppl who are saying that. Get together, organize a HSE, make a video (I'll even accept the good old "filming with smartphone" technique if your PC is not good enough to run both STO and OBS/any other video capture soft at the same time) and provide the parse. Why I'm asking the video too is that the parse regularly displays deaths falsely, and it's not very hard to modify it.
If you manage to complete the mission without any deaths, I'll mail you each a master key. I'm serious.
I’ll admit to difference of opinion with a few people here but I’ll never go and call them “filthy dps’ers” or discredit an entire section of the community based on where they choose to hang out. I’ll only get defensive when someone starts making assumptions that the part of the community I call home is worse than everywhere else (backing that up with offensive quotes from their friends as if to push the idea).
We have differed on a few opinions, but that's fine. I just want to clarify that I have enjoyed the respectful exchange of ideas and opinions and also have no problem with anyone that feels differently.
In the end, that's what sites like this are for, respectful exchange of ideas. I actually think there is a lot of good discussion in this thread and am pleased that it's been allowed to progress.
I like a good exchange too, but I must say I feel somewhat disheartened seeing everyone qualified as 'scrubs' ("not counting like perhaps 5-10 ppl"). That shows a disdain for, well, literally almost everybody here. And frankly, it makes me somewhat uncomfortable. As for myself, I'll stick to what LaughingTrendy said: "Your fun isn't wrong!"
Fly safe!
I've never said that anyone's fun is wrong. And you know it. But I'm frankly tired of constantly being **** on when all I'm trying to do is to help others. I mean, there are tons of players here who proudly wave "playing since Beta or playing since F2P" flag, yet post absolute nonsense and still complain how they don't succeed in game. I've tried to offer my help to everyone and were at the beginning (in my opinion) incredibly polite, but when the only answer you get is essentially "f--- you too", then one can't stay simply polite all the time.
I'm never 'constantly being **** on' for my advice, because, LOL, I have none to dispense. So, I do appreciate your position. And I can readily see how frustrating that could be. Still, seeing us all called 'scrubs', I have to admit, I didn't like that at all.
This is feeling shared by pretty much every friend I have in game, hence the disdain towards people who frequent forums.
I usually enjoy my forum time here. Otherwise I wouldn't be here. And I honestly don't share your 'disdain towards people who frequent forums.' I even cringe when I quote you saying it. When for you there are 'perhaps 5-10 ppl' that you don't consider scrubs, for me, there are only like 2-3 ppl here that I seem to clash with, occasionally; and I usually try and stay out of their hair.
But, like I said, I understand where you're coming from. In Dutch, we have a saying that goes (transliterated): "High trees catch a lot of wind."
The only one acting rude here is you I’m afraid. You might not agree with us and might find our opinions at odds with your own feeling towards the game or how people play, but nobody else here is insulting players/forum users or whatever else.
Nobody else here is posting up quotes telling us all that we’re looked upon as scum and then acting as if that’s somethibg to be proud of.
If you do dislike us lot here then do t post here any more. If you find your advice ignored then don’t post it anymore. If someone tells you to naff off or whatever then just ignore them and walk away from the conversation.
The only reason people are getting defensive here is because you keep throwing around generalist accusations and insults against people using this very forum we are speaking on. A lot of people have been here for years, respect each other and play together too. They don’t deserve to be insulted simply because you disagree with a few opinions.
Oh yeah, classic Sul and your victim mentality again. Except pretty much everything you post is pure BS. I'm rude? Sure, I guess I am. Nobody else is rude? Yeah, well...
If you all have been here for years in such a friendly community and I'm simply rattling it, then you should clearly have enough friends to play the stuff you want to with. For some reason, this does not seem to be the case. Again, my offer stands. Go and show me how well you're doing in the game and how you have enough ppl to play with together with. With all the ppl around you in here who all feel exactly like you do, it shouldn't be too hard? Just don't get Cath to carry you.
I’ll admit to difference of opinion with a few people here but I’ll never go and call them “filthy dps’ers” or discredit an entire section of the community based on where they choose to hang out. I’ll only get defensive when someone starts making assumptions that the part of the community I call home is worse than everywhere else (backing that up with offensive quotes from their friends as if to push the idea).
We have differed on a few opinions, but that's fine. I just want to clarify that I have enjoyed the respectful exchange of ideas and opinions and also have no problem with anyone that feels differently.
In the end, that's what sites like this are for, respectful exchange of ideas. I actually think there is a lot of good discussion in this thread and am pleased that it's been allowed to progress.
I like a good exchange too, but I must say I feel somewhat disheartened seeing everyone qualified as 'scrubs' ("not counting like perhaps 5-10 ppl"). That shows a disdain for, well, literally almost everybody here. And frankly, it makes me somewhat uncomfortable. As for myself, I'll stick to what LaughingTrendy said: "Your fun isn't wrong!"
Fly safe!
I've never said that anyone's fun is wrong. And you know it. But I'm frankly tired of constantly being **** on when all I'm trying to do is to help others. I mean, there are tons of players here who proudly wave "playing since Beta or playing since F2P" flag, yet post absolute nonsense and still complain how they don't succeed in game. I've tried to offer my help to everyone and were at the beginning (in my opinion) incredibly polite, but when the only answer you get is essentially "f--- you too", then one can't stay simply polite all the time.
I'm never 'constantly being **** on' for my advice, because, LOL, I have none to dispense. So, I do appreciate your position. And I can readily see how frustrating that could be. Still, seeing us all called 'scrubs', I have to admit, I didn't like that at all.
This is feeling shared by pretty much every friend I have in game, hence the disdain towards people who frequent forums.
I usually enjoy my forum time here. Otherwise I wouldn't be here. And I honestly don't share your 'disdain towards people who frequent forums.' I even cringe when I quote you saying it. When for you there are 'perhaps 5-10 ppl' that you don't consider scrubs, for me, there are only like 2-3 ppl here that I seem to clash with, occasionally; and I usually try and stay out of their hair.
But, like I said, I understand where you're coming from. In Dutch, we have a saying that goes (transliterated): "High trees catch a lot of wind."
Sure, you see the game differently as I do, and that's fine. But seriously, do you disagree with the assessment I quoted back on page 8. Here it is again:
You complain about there being too much dps and how that ruins your fun in maps, about how stuff should be nerfed more. You want challenging content and then when it does come along you complain that you can't do that content cause it's too hard, cause you refuse to use builds that would actually work for that content. You also complain about how the queues are all dead anyway but you won't do queues like this cause it's too hard and you don't do well enough in pug groups. It's a bit like repeatedly punching yourself in the face and wondering why your face hurts.
This is what I see in literally every thread that's even slightly relevant to that discussion... Whether it is this thread, the recent thread about why are PvE queues empty, in the threads about how Korfez is too hard, in the thread where I wrote that S13 was a horrible mistake etc. You all keep implying how there are nice and lovely people in this forum and how I'm the only big mean person who wants to ruin everyone's fun. Well, if the only way you'll be nice and lovely is constantly repeating absolute false information, then I just feel an obligation to point that hey, actually things are completely different.
@tunebreaker now you’re just being silly. How is is grouping together and videoing something going to help the situation? We dont need to prove anything to anyone. You’re the one here insulting everyone and being unreasonable now.
I respect your abilities in game but I’m not insulting you. I’m not ****ing on you or whatever you feel is being done. Don’t come in here insulting the people on the forums and expect to just be ignored. You started out wanting to help people, which is admirable. Now your resorting to silly insults and throwing your toys out of the pram when people don’t agree with you or you dislike the opinions of others here. All very childish if you ask me. The discussion here was quite calm and mature unto you started losing your temper.
@tunebreaker now you’re just being silly. How is is grouping together and videoing something going to help the situation? We dont need to prove anything to anyone.
You’re the one here insulting everyone and being unreasonable now.
You are complaining that you don't have anyone to play with. You also are complaining that you wish to play queues and unleash your amazing teamplay abilities. You are also complaining that the rewards of the queues are not good enough. There are plenty of people here, or in the "why are PvE queues dead" thread who said the same thing.
That would give you all new friends/teammates, give you opportunity to start a queue, and give you sufficient reward (or what, aren't 2 Master Keys good enough?).
Which is it? Do you want a completely casual gameplay experience or you want to play elites with high-end team? You can't have both.
The forum is absolutely filled with examples like this.
Why can't you have both? I do it just fine. I play this game casually. Like an hour a day or less. I putz around with my build here and there. And I can play elite content just fine.
You're also not complaining that content is too hard or that people are excluding you.
You are living proof that you can indeed have both. I consider myself causal as well, I really do. I play on average of 1-2 hours a day.. Friday and Saturday I play more then that, but most days I am just on for Admiralty, refine my dilithium, blow up the Crystaline Entity, swap characters.. repeat 7 times and then go eat dinner. Sundays I don't log on at all. Not a religious thing or anything.. I just like a take a 'no video game day' to stay connected to other things. I am pretty casual overall.
I won't get into the argument between Tune and Steve, I am just not going to pour gas on that fire. I will say though that I have seen Tunebreaker called an Elitist and while tempers may have flared a bit here and there, I can assure you it's just not true. I am not an Elite player.. sure, I offer advice because I have learned things over the years. I also work behind a PC and have all the time in the world to go look things up. I monitor a Mainframe and when nothing is going critical, my time is my own so I often pass on what I learn in my research. I rate myself as 'good,' I am not an elite player, but I can play on a team and be an asset. That is totally fine with me, that's what I like being, and I play with Tune all the time. I have made mistakes, I have blown up, I have gotten a little lost in queues, I have asked for directions.. and never once has he done anything except be totally cool to me. This dude is NOT an elitist, it's just that after a while you hear the same things over and over and it just starts to get to you, tempers start to flare and maybe you go a little out of character.
Steve and Tune.. you guys aren't going to agree. Maybe it's best in the interest of preserving discussion and preventing a thread lock that we just call a truce on this one? You guys are too far apart on this to agree, but I honestly believe you both have the best of intentions.
Don't worry, if someone gets all full of themselves and needs to be shot down in flames.. we have coldnapalm for that.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Sure, you see the game differently as I do, and that's fine. But seriously, do you disagree with the assessment I quoted back on page 8. Here it is again:
"You complain about there being too much dps and how that ruins your fun in maps, about how stuff should be nerfed more. You want challenging content and then when it does come along you complain that you can't do that content cause it's too hard, cause you refuse to use builds that would actually work for that content. You also complain about how the queues are all dead anyway but you won't do queues like this cause it's too hard and you don't do well enough in pug groups. It's a bit like repeatedly punching yourself in the face and wondering why your face hurts."
The other day, I posted this reply to peterconnorfirst:
"I feel your last observation is quite astute: ppl are often clamoring for harder content, but when it actually arrives, they hate it. As Oscar Wilde said, "There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it." I think that's because, ofentimes, ppl screaming for harder content is just their way of boasting, really ('Oh, look how good I am! This game is too easy for me, yawn.') Not in your case, of course, mind you. But you are right to say Cryptic learned their lesson here. Remember Korfez?! When they actually made it a *lot* harder, ppl were complaining all over the place.
And I think it's a good thing that Elite queues are only truly accessible to Elite players, like yourself. Othwise, there's no point in calling them 'Elite' queues. The rest of us, I picture myself among the peasants in The Holy Grail, going "Oo, there's some lovely filth over here!" LOL."
Unlike you, though, I don't necessarily see it as people who 'refuse to use builds that would actually work for that content.' Taking myself, for example, as lordsteve1 indicated as well, not everyone is simply capable of doing what you do. Me? I'm too uncoordinated. My brain still has trouble watching the red ring around the Entity grow, and still time my key activations accurately (heck, even without the Entity, I tend to get too disoriented when there's too much going on). I have accepted this about myself, no biggie.
And, as you know, a build only plays a minimal role. If I copy your build, I would still fail miserably in it. If only things were so simple! Good thing for me, I don't seek to do Elite queues. Sometimes I'm curious, though, and think to do a HSE or something, but then decide I don't want to bring down a good team. But, naturally, I don't complain about HSE being too difficult, either.
At times, I get the feeling, though, that you're getting angry because you know best (and technically you actually do), and ppl won't listen to you. Like that guy you linked to about 'scrubs.' It makes for a cute read, but it's also incredibly narrow-minded, and really predicated on "Your fun is wrong!" In his view, the only way to do a game 'properly', is to try and win the game. Everything else is subservient to that, and everyone else not doing it his way is a 'scrub.' I wonder if it ever occurred to him, though, that maybe 'winning' the game isn't all there is?! Like I occasionally play GTA V. Others tried and master their driving skills. Me? Soon as I knew how, LOL, I installed a mod to prevent (visible) car damage. I'm no doubt a 'scrub' in his book, refusing to learn how it's done. But, for myself, I figured, "Hey, I'm just here to drive around in fancy wheels, and look pretty."
Sure, you see the game differently as I do, and that's fine. But seriously, do you disagree with the assessment I quoted back on page 8. Here it is again:
"You complain about there being too much dps and how that ruins your fun in maps, about how stuff should be nerfed more. You want challenging content and then when it does come along you complain that you can't do that content cause it's too hard, cause you refuse to use builds that would actually work for that content. You also complain about how the queues are all dead anyway but you won't do queues like this cause it's too hard and you don't do well enough in pug groups. It's a bit like repeatedly punching yourself in the face and wondering why your face hurts."
The other day, I posted this reply to peterconnorfirst:
"I feel your last observation is quite astute: ppl are often clamoring for harder content, but when it actually arrives, they hate it. As Oscar Wilde said, "There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it." I think that's because, ofentimes, ppl screaming for harder content is just their way of boasting, really ('Oh, look how good I am! This game is too easy for me, yawn.') Not in your case, of course, mind you. But you are right to say Cryptic learned their lesson here. Remember Korfez?! When they actually made it a *lot* harder, ppl were complaining all over the place.
And I think it's a good thing that Elite queues are only truly accessible to Elite players, like yourself. Othwise, there's no point in calling them 'Elite' queues. The rest of us, I picture myself among the peasants in The Holy Grail, going "Oo, there's some lovely filth over here!" LOL."
Unlike you, though, I don't necessarily see it as people who 'refuse to use builds that would actually work for that content.' Taking myself, for example, as lordsteve1 indicated as well, not everyone is simply capable of doing what you do. Me? I'm too uncoordinated. My brain still has trouble watching the red ring around the Entity grow, and still time my key activations accurately (heck, even without the Entity, I tend to get too disoriented when there's too much going on). I have accepted this about myself, no biggie.
And, as you know, a build only plays a minimal role. If I copy your build, I would still fail miserably in it. If only things were so simple! Good thing for me, I don't seek to do Elite queues. Sometimes I'm curious, though, and think to do a HSE or something, but then decide I don't want to bring down a good team. But, naturally, I don't complain about HSE being too difficult, either.
At times, I get the feeling, though, that you're getting angry because you know best (and technically you actually do), and ppl won't listen to you. Like that guy you linked to about 'scrubs.' It makes for a cute read, but it's also incredibly narrow-minded, and really predicated on "Your fun is wrong!" In his view, the only way to do a game 'properly', is to try and win the game. Everything else is subservient to that, and everyone else not doing it his way is a 'scrub.' I wonder if it ever occurred to him, though, that maybe 'winning' the game isn't all there is?! Like I occasionally play GTA V. Others tried and master their driving skills. Me? Soon as I knew how, LOL, I installed a mod to prevent (visible) car damage. I'm no doubt a 'scrub' in his book, refusing to learn how it's done. But, for myself, I figured, "Hey, I'm just here to drive around in fancy wheels, and look pretty."
Let me first tell you again that in no way I consider you to be a forumite (you're in that 5-10 players) and I agree with you at least 90% of the time.
But really, you are capable of pretty much every content in the game. I know you, and even if I didn't, your parses speak for you. Yet you are in here, talking about how you are not capable of doing things (that you seemingly want to!), and then at the next post tell us how you don't have any friends to run said content with. I just don't feel it's a good attitude. And I can't really do anything other than to first point it out, then yell at you and hope that maybe those ppl will notice how they should change their own mindset. So that's what I'm doing. Do I want the forum to be a good place and I wouldn't have to call everyone insultingly forumites? Absolutely, that's why I'm posting here. But the improvement just isn't there.
Fyi, it was Pete who linked the scrub text, not me. We might be from same fleet, but we aren't the same person.
This run of HSE was done today in our secondary ships, not our main ships, mainly because this week we are holding an event to play in only Alpha Quadrant ships, only one player was using their main ship, a Vesta. That said most of the ships have some epic gear and some have DPRM and other nice consoles, but as you can see we had plenty of time left showing that it would be quite easily possible to have finished this event with lower specified ships. My Caitian escort has no reputation gear, it's running all colony Mk XIV gear with only the deflector at epic as I do intend to keep that, the rest will be replace by set gear, reason is this is a new toon and not all reps are finished yet.
The key factor here is working together as a team, focus fire and voice comms make this possible far more easily than typing. Also the tactics, group the spheres together at the start, it's the spheres that are the real menace with their overpowered tachyon beams ripping off your shields, and you need a few ships able to run threat.
We will run this again in our main ships and post the video once done, probably next week. Note, a poor bit of piloting by me got an aceton in the face otherwise it would have been a death free run.
I've not added music to this so you can listen to our comm chatter through the mission.
Awesome. That's exactly what I wanted to see. No pointless apologies as to why something can't be done, you took the initiative and just did it. No rep gear either! (Although probably some folks in here would call fleet gear, or ships you're flying with, or the fact that you have any friends to fly with cheating too, cause petty reasons).
In any case, thank you for demonstrating again very nicely that the mission is accessible to practically anyone as long as they put at least some time and effort into the game (it's MMO after all, you can't progress in a matter of a day). And you'll surely manage to complete it without any deaths too, this Aceton pulse thingy there was just an incredibly bad luck thing - just like in this almost clean run I had with an extremely good team, Duncan still got nuked once. It's a thing that just happens every now and then, and even though you've never complained about how you have no one to play with or why rewards suck, I feel nevertheless all 5 of you in there fully earned your keys.
The key factor here is working together as a team, focus fire and voice comms make this possible far more easily than typing. Also the tactics, group the spheres together at the start, it's the spheres that are the real menace with their overpowered tachyon beams ripping off your shields, and you need a few ships able to run threat.
My compliments to you and your team, well done!
I just highlighted the most important part here as it is basically the main obstacle to be overcome on that map.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Fyi, it was Pete who linked the scrub text, not me. We might be from same fleet, but we aren't the same person.
Oh.
I am very sorry @meimeitoo if my linked article with the scrub definition offended you in some way. I hope you realize I did not link it with you in mind. I read it from time to time myself and try to sort out even how much of me there is in it and in what parts it could be that I hinder myself in game when competing with others.
Also the Streetfighter analogy is hardly fitting in STO as the concept of “play to win” or “winner” does not apply. We play a tournament free mmorpg, you know. Most of what the game comes up with is nothing more than an auto-win condition for experienced teams so many players feel the need to set the difficulty straight for themselves. Let it be through DPS records, undermanned teams or low level gear and ships. For them, doing well there is a replacment for "winning".
Without a "real" win condition the very only thing one can do is have fun in what he is doing. Whatever that is. If you manage that, especially with your friends, you have “won” and it’s not even relevant if somebody calls you or me a scrub.
If you don’t however it gets tricky as it would need to be carefully evaluated if the game hinders you or if it is just yourself. But seriously. I have read most if not all your comments in this section of the forums, enjoyed them a great deal and I never had the impression that you are a person who does not manage to have fun in game.
Nevertheless what @tunebreaker was trying to explain sadly stand. This place is hard to tolerate at times for performance players on a lot of levels. That’s why so few are in here. Some of them may be elitists, I don’t know. But I bet the vast majority just gets the creeps when they read comments like “Scimitard” “Cookie cutter Build” or “Nannie Run”. They simply could not fathom why anybody would bubble up himself in a world full of self-imposed limitations up to a point where he cannot have fun anymore or “win” the game in with what he is doing.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Fyi, it was Pete who linked the scrub text, not me. We might be from same fleet, but we aren't the same person.
Oh.
I am very sorry @meimeitoo if my linked article with the scrub definition offended you in some way. I hope you realize I did not link it with you in mind. I read it from time to time myself and try to sort out even how much of me there is in it and in what parts it could be that I hinder myself in game when competing with others.
Once again, you are showing your truly gentleman colors. And I really do greatly appreciate your kind words, and the way you mananged to explain the whole 'scrub' thing in a way that actually makes a great deal of sense now.
If you don’t however it gets tricky as it would need to be carefully evaluated if the game hinders you or if it is just yourself. But seriously. I have read most if not all your comments in this section of the forums, enjoyed them a great deal and I never had the impression that you are a person who does not manage to have fun in game.
Awww. That is as kind of you as it is true. I *do* have fun. Nevertheless, you guys inspired me! And I now feel there's a whole lot more fun to be had, actually trying to 'win' the game. I cannot fathom the amount of satisfaction and sense of accomplishment you and tunebreaker experienced when you pulled of your little magic! And even though mattjohnsonva is not exactly a slouch in the DPS department either, his vid shows me that magic is not even required, maybe: just a few ppl concentrating firepower with some minimal organization. When I try it, it will no doubt appear to be a lot harder, *g*, but you guys are showing me that it may actually be doable!
Nevertheless what @tunebreaker was trying to explain sadly stand. This place is hard to tolerate at times for performance players on a lot of levels. That’s why so few are in here. Some of them may be elitists, I don’t know. But I bet the vast majority just gets the creeps when they read comments like “Scimitard” “Cookie cutter Build” or “Nannie Run”. They simply could not fathom why anybody would bubble up himself in a world full of self-imposed limitations up to a point where he cannot have fun anymore or “win” the game in with what he is doing.
And this, I must admit, is a very good example of what that 'scrub' guy was talking about: not limiting oneself mentally! And I just realized that comments like “Scimitard” “Cookie cutter Build” or “Nannie Run” are -- if I understand the man correctly -- precisely what the true scrub would label being 'cheap' (aka, using any good and effective tactics to 'win' the game). And I can see how one could get tired of those remarks real fast.
Nanny runs are nothing more than masturbatory. They don't really represent effective or even realistic gameplay. They're runs where the goal is simply to inflate one person's numbers regardless of the effect it has on anyone else's, or the efficient completion of the mission.
For those not interested in DPS records the term is hardly concerning at all, although analogizing it with masturbation it as mature as to apply it to those who want to become good at space Barbie or space Ferengie. I mean what happens when you are the richy rich of STO with all the EC caps reached and banks filled with lock box ships? You ejaculate?
For those interested in DPS records however it is the perfect description of how the view from inside the bubble must look like. Form the outside support runs work best however for what they were designed to do: set DPS records; at least they are for those not rejecting like75% of what team play offers.
But hey, I’m not here to judge. Go ahead, become a DPSer and go play one ISA after the other with randomns wondering how many nannie elements were present there by coincident ending you up were you are. Turning a 5 man teamed PvE map into a competitive action were every Gold DPSer already heavily cannibalizes the potential of his team mates is surely the most effective way to set DPS records.
Its not as if driving with a pulled hand break wouldn't always be the fastest way to get where you want to get either.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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And this, I must admit, is a very good example of what that 'scrub' guy was talking about: not limiting oneself mentally!
The scrub is a specific breed of player obsessed with playing the game as they imagine it to be, rather than the way it actually is. Unlike the newbie, who simply doesn't understand the game, the scrub is actively hostile to learning.
And I just realized that comments like “Scimitard” “Cookie cutter Build” or “Nannie Run” are -- if I understand the man correctly -- precisely what the true scrub would label being 'cheap' (aka, using any good and effective tactics to 'win' the game).
The "Scimitard" is actually a term coined by veterans, describing the kind of player who bought this thing expecting it would make them godlike, and then is subsequently seen exploding into a green cloud of shame in the next Red Alert.
There's several different directions of complaint regarding the "cookie cutter". ONE such group definitely consists of the scrubs, who are outright hostile to the application of knowledge, even if it's unoriginal knowledge. Another group is the people who complain about others blindly copying a build with no real understanding of how it works or how to use it. Finally, there are those complaining that a game simply lacks any room for differentiation at all, which may in turn also be a scrublike complaint of wishing the game were something that it is not, but could also be a genuine complaint about one-dimensional gameplay.
Nanny runs are nothing more than masturbatory. They don't really represent effective or even realistic gameplay. They're runs where the goal is simply to inflate one person's numbers regardless of the effect it has on anyone else's, or the efficient completion of the mission.
Plenty several things that you said are just not true.
"Scimitard" coined by "veterans". "Veterans" who? Those who have "played since beta" while actually spending more time whining on forums than trying to better themselves in game? I have never heard the term used in such a way you're describing at the moment. However, I have heard it plenty of times used to describe veterans, who use Scimitars and do "too much" DPS for the person's liking.
"Cookie cutter" - yeah, fair enough. No arguments there
"Nanny runs" *can* be a representation of horribly inflated numbers. There are plenty of players in the game who get a team of friends together just to set a record to them that actually doesn't represent them at all. Now, in itself it's just a number, and I shouldn't care too much, but many of those also tend to be very elitist players who start to use those numbers (that don't really represent their actual gameplay) to trashtalk those, who know game far better than they do, but might be lower on DPS ladder (cause they don't use said cheap tactics).
Which is also why I've been careful to start elite mission runs even in high DPS channels, just because I know there are several people there who got in by teetering on the edge of channel rules and thus are actually not competent enough to be in my elite runs. But if one happens to point it out, the offender obviously gets offended and points to their "awesome" (nannied, but it's there on the table) DPS score.
But... there are plenty of people who cry "nanny run" or "you were just carried" to any form of teamplay. You use a tank or healer in team? Nanny. You dare to have some sort of voice coordination. Yeah, no, get your nanny run out of here. You're using team-benefitting items on your ship. Holy... how can you even think of such a bad behaviour. You healed someone else during the fight cause it was obvious they were low on HP. Stop contributing to the adverse nanny culture!
This is also why you see me joking about "getting carried" so often.
Comments
I've never said that anyone's fun is wrong. And you know it. But I'm frankly tired of constantly being TRIBBLE on when all I'm trying to do is to help others. I mean, there are tons of players here who proudly wave "playing since Beta or playing since F2P" flag, yet post absolute nonsense and still complain how they don't succeed in game. I've tried to offer my help to everyone and were at the beginning (in my opinion) incredibly polite, but when the only answer you get is essentially "f--- you too", then one can't stay simply polite all the time. Have all of my posts in this thread been incredibly nice and am I proud of them? No, but in the same time I don't really regret them either, because c'mon, maybe it's time to either try not to suck or stop complaining?
This is feeling shared by pretty much every friend I have in game, hence the disdain towards people who frequent forums. It's just from personal experience, people in general in here tend to act in a much more rude and incoherent manner than, say in Reddit or in game channels.
I mean, let's take a look at this, on this page: On page 6: Which is it? Do you want a completely casual gameplay experience or you want to play elites with high-end team? You can't have both.
The forum is absolutely filled with examples like this.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
Nobody else here is posting up quotes telling us all that we’re looked upon as scum and then acting as if that’s somethibg to be proud of.
If you do dislike us lot here then do t post here any more. If you find your advice ignored then don’t post it anymore. If someone tells you to naff off or whatever then just ignore them and walk away from the conversation.
The only reason people are getting defensive here is because you keep throwing around generalist accusations and insults against people using this very forum we are speaking on. A lot of people have been here for years, respect each other and play together too. They don’t deserve to be insulted simply because you disagree with a few opinions.
If you manage to complete the mission without any deaths, I'll mail you each a master key. I'm serious.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
I'm never 'constantly being **** on' for my advice, because, LOL, I have none to dispense.
I usually enjoy my forum time here. Otherwise I wouldn't be here. And I honestly don't share your 'disdain towards people who frequent forums.' I even cringe when I quote you saying it.
But, like I said, I understand where you're coming from. In Dutch, we have a saying that goes (transliterated): "High trees catch a lot of wind."
Oh yeah, classic Sul and your victim mentality again. Except pretty much everything you post is pure BS. I'm rude? Sure, I guess I am. Nobody else is rude? Yeah, well...
If you all have been here for years in such a friendly community and I'm simply rattling it, then you should clearly have enough friends to play the stuff you want to with. For some reason, this does not seem to be the case. Again, my offer stands. Go and show me how well you're doing in the game and how you have enough ppl to play with together with. With all the ppl around you in here who all feel exactly like you do, it shouldn't be too hard? Just don't get Cath to carry you.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Sweet! I add one too
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Sure, you see the game differently as I do, and that's fine. But seriously, do you disagree with the assessment I quoted back on page 8. Here it is again:
This is what I see in literally every thread that's even slightly relevant to that discussion... Whether it is this thread, the recent thread about why are PvE queues empty, in the threads about how Korfez is too hard, in the thread where I wrote that S13 was a horrible mistake etc. You all keep implying how there are nice and lovely people in this forum and how I'm the only big mean person who wants to ruin everyone's fun. Well, if the only way you'll be nice and lovely is constantly repeating absolute false information, then I just feel an obligation to point that hey, actually things are completely different.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
You’re the one here insulting everyone and being unreasonable now.
I respect your abilities in game but I’m not insulting you. I’m not ****ing on you or whatever you feel is being done.
Don’t come in here insulting the people on the forums and expect to just be ignored. You started out wanting to help people, which is admirable. Now your resorting to silly insults and throwing your toys out of the pram when people don’t agree with you or you dislike the opinions of others here.
All very childish if you ask me. The discussion here was quite calm and mature unto you started losing your temper.
You are complaining that you don't have anyone to play with. You also are complaining that you wish to play queues and unleash your amazing teamplay abilities. You are also complaining that the rewards of the queues are not good enough. There are plenty of people here, or in the "why are PvE queues dead" thread who said the same thing.
That would give you all new friends/teammates, give you opportunity to start a queue, and give you sufficient reward (or what, aren't 2 Master Keys good enough?).
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
You're also not complaining that content is too hard or that people are excluding you.
You are living proof that you can indeed have both. I consider myself causal as well, I really do. I play on average of 1-2 hours a day.. Friday and Saturday I play more then that, but most days I am just on for Admiralty, refine my dilithium, blow up the Crystaline Entity, swap characters.. repeat 7 times and then go eat dinner. Sundays I don't log on at all. Not a religious thing or anything.. I just like a take a 'no video game day' to stay connected to other things. I am pretty casual overall.
I won't get into the argument between Tune and Steve, I am just not going to pour gas on that fire. I will say though that I have seen Tunebreaker called an Elitist and while tempers may have flared a bit here and there, I can assure you it's just not true. I am not an Elite player.. sure, I offer advice because I have learned things over the years. I also work behind a PC and have all the time in the world to go look things up. I monitor a Mainframe and when nothing is going critical, my time is my own so I often pass on what I learn in my research. I rate myself as 'good,' I am not an elite player, but I can play on a team and be an asset. That is totally fine with me, that's what I like being, and I play with Tune all the time. I have made mistakes, I have blown up, I have gotten a little lost in queues, I have asked for directions.. and never once has he done anything except be totally cool to me. This dude is NOT an elitist, it's just that after a while you hear the same things over and over and it just starts to get to you, tempers start to flare and maybe you go a little out of character.
Steve and Tune.. you guys aren't going to agree. Maybe it's best in the interest of preserving discussion and preventing a thread lock that we just call a truce on this one? You guys are too far apart on this to agree, but I honestly believe you both have the best of intentions.
Don't worry, if someone gets all full of themselves and needs to be shot down in flames.. we have coldnapalm for that.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I have actually grown to enjoy it.
The other day, I posted this reply to peterconnorfirst:
"I feel your last observation is quite astute: ppl are often clamoring for harder content, but when it actually arrives, they hate it. As Oscar Wilde said, "There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it."
And I think it's a good thing that Elite queues are only truly accessible to Elite players, like yourself. Othwise, there's no point in calling them 'Elite' queues. The rest of us, I picture myself among the peasants in The Holy Grail, going "Oo, there's some lovely filth over here!" LOL."
Unlike you, though, I don't necessarily see it as people who 'refuse to use builds that would actually work for that content.' Taking myself, for example, as lordsteve1 indicated as well, not everyone is simply capable of doing what you do. Me? I'm too uncoordinated. My brain still has trouble watching the red ring around the Entity grow, and still time my key activations accurately (heck, even without the Entity, I tend to get too disoriented when there's too much going on). I have accepted this about myself, no biggie.
And, as you know, a build only plays a minimal role. If I copy your build, I would still fail miserably in it. If only things were so simple! Good thing for me, I don't seek to do Elite queues. Sometimes I'm curious, though, and think to do a HSE or something, but then decide I don't want to bring down a good team. But, naturally, I don't complain about HSE being too difficult, either.
At times, I get the feeling, though, that you're getting angry because you know best (and technically you actually do), and ppl won't listen to you. Like that guy you linked to about 'scrubs.' It makes for a cute read, but it's also incredibly narrow-minded, and really predicated on "Your fun is wrong!" In his view, the only way to do a game 'properly', is to try and win the game. Everything else is subservient to that, and everyone else not doing it his way is a 'scrub.' I wonder if it ever occurred to him, though, that maybe 'winning' the game isn't all there is?! Like I occasionally play GTA V. Others tried and master their driving skills. Me? Soon as I knew how, LOL, I installed a mod to prevent (visible) car damage. I'm no doubt a 'scrub' in his book, refusing to learn how it's done. But, for myself, I figured, "Hey, I'm just here to drive around in fancy wheels, and look pretty."
Let me first tell you again that in no way I consider you to be a forumite (you're in that 5-10 players) and I agree with you at least 90% of the time.
But really, you are capable of pretty much every content in the game. I know you, and even if I didn't, your parses speak for you. Yet you are in here, talking about how you are not capable of doing things (that you seemingly want to!), and then at the next post tell us how you don't have any friends to run said content with. I just don't feel it's a good attitude. And I can't really do anything other than to first point it out, then yell at you and hope that maybe those ppl will notice how they should change their own mindset. So that's what I'm doing. Do I want the forum to be a good place and I wouldn't have to call everyone insultingly forumites? Absolutely, that's why I'm posting here. But the improvement just isn't there.
Fyi, it was Pete who linked the scrub text, not me. We might be from same fleet, but we aren't the same person.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
Awesome. That's exactly what I wanted to see. No pointless apologies as to why something can't be done, you took the initiative and just did it. No rep gear either! (Although probably some folks in here would call fleet gear, or ships you're flying with, or the fact that you have any friends to fly with cheating too, cause petty reasons).
In any case, thank you for demonstrating again very nicely that the mission is accessible to practically anyone as long as they put at least some time and effort into the game (it's MMO after all, you can't progress in a matter of a day). And you'll surely manage to complete it without any deaths too, this Aceton pulse thingy there was just an incredibly bad luck thing - just like in this almost clean run I had with an extremely good team, Duncan still got nuked once. It's a thing that just happens every now and then, and even though you've never complained about how you have no one to play with or why rewards suck, I feel nevertheless all 5 of you in there fully earned your keys.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
My compliments to you and your team, well done!
I just highlighted the most important part here as it is basically the main obstacle to be overcome on that map.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Oh.
I am very sorry @meimeitoo if my linked article with the scrub definition offended you in some way. I hope you realize I did not link it with you in mind. I read it from time to time myself and try to sort out even how much of me there is in it and in what parts it could be that I hinder myself in game when competing with others.
Also the Streetfighter analogy is hardly fitting in STO as the concept of “play to win” or “winner” does not apply. We play a tournament free mmorpg, you know. Most of what the game comes up with is nothing more than an auto-win condition for experienced teams so many players feel the need to set the difficulty straight for themselves. Let it be through DPS records, undermanned teams or low level gear and ships. For them, doing well there is a replacment for "winning".
Without a "real" win condition the very only thing one can do is have fun in what he is doing. Whatever that is. If you manage that, especially with your friends, you have “won” and it’s not even relevant if somebody calls you or me a scrub.
If you don’t however it gets tricky as it would need to be carefully evaluated if the game hinders you or if it is just yourself. But seriously. I have read most if not all your comments in this section of the forums, enjoyed them a great deal and I never had the impression that you are a person who does not manage to have fun in game.
Nevertheless what @tunebreaker was trying to explain sadly stand. This place is hard to tolerate at times for performance players on a lot of levels. That’s why so few are in here. Some of them may be elitists, I don’t know. But I bet the vast majority just gets the creeps when they read comments like “Scimitard” “Cookie cutter Build” or “Nannie Run”. They simply could not fathom why anybody would bubble up himself in a world full of self-imposed limitations up to a point where he cannot have fun anymore or “win” the game in with what he is doing.
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Once again, you are showing your truly gentleman colors.
Awww. That is as kind of you as it is true.
And this, I must admit, is a very good example of what that 'scrub' guy was talking about: not limiting oneself mentally! And I just realized that comments like “Scimitard” “Cookie cutter Build” or “Nannie Run” are -- if I understand the man correctly -- precisely what the true scrub would label being 'cheap' (aka, using any good and effective tactics to 'win' the game). And I can see how one could get tired of those remarks real fast.
In short, thank you for your post!
For those not interested in DPS records the term is hardly concerning at all, although analogizing it with masturbation it as mature as to apply it to those who want to become good at space Barbie or space Ferengie. I mean what happens when you are the richy rich of STO with all the EC caps reached and banks filled with lock box ships? You ejaculate?
For those interested in DPS records however it is the perfect description of how the view from inside the bubble must look like. Form the outside support runs work best however for what they were designed to do: set DPS records; at least they are for those not rejecting like75% of what team play offers.
But hey, I’m not here to judge. Go ahead, become a DPSer and go play one ISA after the other with randomns wondering how many nannie elements were present there by coincident ending you up were you are. Turning a 5 man teamed PvE map into a competitive action were every Gold DPSer already heavily cannibalizes the potential of his team mates is surely the most effective way to set DPS records.
Its not as if driving with a pulled hand break wouldn't always be the fastest way to get where you want to get either.
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Plenty several things that you said are just not true.
"Scimitard" coined by "veterans". "Veterans" who? Those who have "played since beta" while actually spending more time whining on forums than trying to better themselves in game? I have never heard the term used in such a way you're describing at the moment. However, I have heard it plenty of times used to describe veterans, who use Scimitars and do "too much" DPS for the person's liking.
"Cookie cutter" - yeah, fair enough. No arguments there
"Nanny runs" *can* be a representation of horribly inflated numbers. There are plenty of players in the game who get a team of friends together just to set a record to them that actually doesn't represent them at all. Now, in itself it's just a number, and I shouldn't care too much, but many of those also tend to be very elitist players who start to use those numbers (that don't really represent their actual gameplay) to trashtalk those, who know game far better than they do, but might be lower on DPS ladder (cause they don't use said cheap tactics).
Which is also why I've been careful to start elite mission runs even in high DPS channels, just because I know there are several people there who got in by teetering on the edge of channel rules and thus are actually not competent enough to be in my elite runs. But if one happens to point it out, the offender obviously gets offended and points to their "awesome" (nannied, but it's there on the table) DPS score.
But... there are plenty of people who cry "nanny run" or "you were just carried" to any form of teamplay. You use a tank or healer in team? Nanny. You dare to have some sort of voice coordination. Yeah, no, get your nanny run out of here. You're using team-benefitting items on your ship. Holy... how can you even think of such a bad behaviour. You healed someone else during the fight cause it was obvious they were low on HP. Stop contributing to the adverse nanny culture!
This is also why you see me joking about "getting carried" so often.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.