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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

Hive Onslaught Needs a Nerf?

lapprenticellapprenticel Member Posts: 254 Arc User
edited September 2023 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
Run it a couple of times and it's just not doable. First match someone quit partway through and I gave up after we failed the mission to defeat the guards. As a result I got a 30 minute leaver penalty. Second time through someone quit partway through, we'd failed the same mission, and we were on track to time out on the Queen despite not having finished off her guards. I know my ship isn't super high tier - mostly MK XII Very Rare gear, but that's not the real problem. As I write this one of the remaining players - I'm trying to avoid the leaver penalty since the match is lost but a couple of others are unwilling or too ignorant to quit, has multiple warp core, targeting systems, bridge station and hull breach failures. Needless to say he can't do squat because he's died so often. I myself started with an undamaged vessel yet have died so often that I have a hull breach, shield system and EPS conduit malfunctions and seem to come apart whenever the Borg notice me.

Okay 30 minutes in and the other chap has either gone AFK, or is refusing to quit. I don't want an AFK penalty - it's my last toon and I'm just trying to finish the Endeavor then I'm done with STO ... Yes!!! He quit. Joy to the world! And I avoided the penalty so I can queue again for one last attempt :s (Kudos also to Lena for taking the hit and quitting first)

Okay third run on basic worked. Not sure if it was the change in difficulty or a superior group. Still died several times - I have a penchant for flying too close to exploding cubes, and got caught twice by the command ship lances, but otherwise everything went relatively smoothly.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
«134567…10

Comments

  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    Hive space is a map where immense bandwidth of power which is available to the players of a team becomes really obvious. If you go in with a strong team the map plays smooth, in a weak one things can get rough.

    What I suggest is that you try to find out your in game standing at the DPS front and then join some respective channels to find teammates of equal standing. That would help you to select a fitting difficulty setting.

    The channel DPS Bronze for example should get you a team easily cutting through normal, while DPS Silver does the same for Advanced. Gold on the other hand should be totally suffice for Elite.

    https://www.sto-league.com/channels/

    An alternative is also The Science Channel in game. I often run into very talented player for Hive there.

    And no, please dont nerf that map. :)
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    lapprenticel wrote: »
    Run it a couple of times and it's just not doable. First match someone quit partway through and I gave up after we failed the mission to defeat the guards. As a result I got a 30 minute leaver penalty. Second time through someone quit partway through, we'd failed the same mission, and we were on track to time out on the Queen despite not having finished off her guards. I know my ship isn't super high tier - mostly MK XII Very Rare gear, but that's not the real problem. As I write this one of the remaining players - I'm trying to avoid the leaver penalty since the match is lost but a couple of others are unwilling or too ignorant to quit, has multiple warp core, targeting systems, bridge station and hull breach failures. Needless to say he can't do squat because he's died so often. I myself started with an undamaged vessel yet have died so often that I have a hull breach, shield system and EPS conduit malfunctions and seem to come apart whenever the Borg notice me.

    Okay 30 minutes in and the other chap has either gone AFK, or is refusing to quit. I don't want an AFK penalty - it's my last toon and I'm just trying to finish the Endeavor then I'm done with STO ... Yes!!! He quit. Joy to the world! And I avoided the penalty so I can queue again for one last attempt :s (Kudos also to Lena for taking the hit and quitting first)

    Okay third run on basic worked. Not sure if it was the change in difficulty or a superior group. Still died several times - I have a penchant for flying too close to exploding cubes, and got caught twice by the command ship lances, but otherwise everything went relatively smoothly.

    So you had a hard time.. so nerfs for all of us?

    Sorry, but no. It's fine just the way it is.. it's not pug friendly, but that's fine. Connor's advice is solid, go that route and you'll be just fine.

    The queue is fine the way it is.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    No. Just no. Don't try to take away that small joy of having a taste of challenge this game has.

    On Elite difficulty, it is known to be one of the most challenging queues in the game. There are other queues (Storming the Spire, Herald Sphere, Battle of Korfez) that offer arguably even higher difficulty, but are timegated and thus not nearly as popular as Hive. Thus, it is not recommended to play it without a full premade team of competent players. And even taking all that into account, the mission on elite has still been beaten just with 2 players in team.

    However, reading your description, you didn't even play it on elite (elite autofails after 10 minutes if you fail to destroy every ship in first wave), which tells me you have some serious build flaws. So please, instead of trying to make the game even more boring for people in search for challenge, try to improve yourself. Ask questions in this very forum, or even better, lurk in r/stobuilds.
    ypKK3uF.png

    U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
    R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build

    My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    > @peterconnorfirst said:
    > Hive space is a map where immense bandwidth of power which is available to the players of a team becomes really obvious. If you go in with a strong team the map plays smooth, in a weak one things can get rough.
    >
    > What I suggest is that you try to find out your in game standing at the DPS front and then join some respective channels to find teammates of equal standing. That would help you to select a fitting difficulty setting.
    >
    > The channel DPS Bronze for example should get you a team easily cutting through normal, while DPS Silver does the same for Advanced. Gold on the other hand should be totally suffice for Elite.
    >
    > https://www.sto-league.com/channels/
    >
    > An alternative is also The Science Channel in game. I often run into very talented player for Hive there.
    >
    > And no, please dont nerf that map. :)

    This is good advice. Hive is a nightmare with a bad pug team, but it's fine with a decent team from the dps channels.
    Tza0PEl.png
  • nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,564 Arc User
    Hive space doesn't have a normal or advanced mode if I remember right? I know there are some maps that have no normal or advanced modes and other maps that have no elites. I wouldn't mind seeing the elite only maps get normal and advanced versions for people to work up in to elite as well as maps that have only normal or advanced get elite difficulties.
    Green people don't have to be.... little.
  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    nimbull wrote: »
    Hive space doesn't have a normal or advanced mode if I remember right? I know there are some maps that have no normal or advanced modes and other maps that have no elites. I wouldn't mind seeing the elite only maps get normal and advanced versions for people to work up in to elite as well as maps that have only normal or advanced get elite difficulties.

    Hive has always had all 3 difficulty versions. Korfez is the only elite-only mission in game.
    ypKK3uF.png

    U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
    R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build

    My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,468 Arc User
    lapprenticel wrote: »
    Run it a couple of times and it's just not doable. First match someone quit partway through and I gave up after we failed the mission to defeat the guards. As a result I got a 30 minute leaver penalty. Second time through someone quit partway through, we'd failed the same mission, and we were on track to time out on the Queen despite not having finished off her guards. I know my ship isn't super high tier - mostly MK XII Very Rare gear, but that's not the real problem. As I write this one of the remaining players - I'm trying to avoid the leaver penalty since the match is lost but a couple of others are unwilling or too ignorant to quit, has multiple warp core, targeting systems, bridge station and hull breach failures. Needless to say he can't do squat because he's died so often. I myself started with an undamaged vessel yet have died so often that I have a hull breach, shield system and EPS conduit malfunctions and seem to come apart whenever the Borg notice me.

    Okay 30 minutes in and the other chap has either gone AFK, or is refusing to quit. I don't want an AFK penalty - it's my last toon and I'm just trying to finish the Endeavor then I'm done with STO ... Yes!!! He quit. Joy to the world! And I avoided the penalty so I can queue again for one last attempt :s (Kudos also to Lena for taking the hit and quitting first)

    Okay third run on basic worked. Not sure if it was the change in difficulty or a superior group. Still died several times - I have a penchant for flying too close to exploding cubes, and got caught twice by the command ship lances, but otherwise everything went relatively smoothly.

    Does not need a nerf. It's an easy queue, even on Elite. Once you have got rid of the guards, go sit by the Queen till the Cap ships are destroyed.

    Why are you STILL using MK XII equipment!? Hive Adv is very doable with MK XII, but there is NO excuse to not upgrade your weapons.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    people were playing for the endeavor and had no idea about the mission. it's fine as it is.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    Echoing the crowd here, Hive requires more coordination and team skill than others of the old queues, by design. And if you were getting injuries you were clearly playing it on at least Advanced.

    You don't necessarily need to upgrade your gear—we did it on Advanced during the endeavor with me at least having almost all VR XII (I have a Fleet UR warp core because those still trump most item set cores). That's not for not wanting Epic XV, I just haven't gotten the hang of crafting yet. But I was also flying a Fleet T6 Avenger and have decent knowledge of how to build a ship and arrange an attack cycle macro. I died twice and we got both optionals.

    So. What you can do is post your build here: https://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/

    And then we'll tear it apart and put it back together and give you some piloting tips for it.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    go in with a ship with frigate pets... it's doable with mk 12s. but for advanced you need high dps to melt things down.
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,485 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    So...let me get this straight. You have mostly VR mk XII...and not a well made one at that by your own words and you joined an ADVANCED+ queue and die repeatedly because other morons did the same to leech and you think the map needs to be nerfed?!? Because on normal, you would literally have to die almost a thousand times to get the list of injuries you mentioned. Like it is impossible to have died that much unless you are playing for HOURS. So you joined advanced+ to leech...failed to leeched and think it needs to be nerfed...yeah how about no. Play in normal next time where you should be.

    And yes, my last hive advanced run was miserable because I had 4 other players who had no buisness being in an advanced queue. Lucky for me...and them...I could solo the map. Not with all the optionals mind you...but still, yeah...that was painful. Even blew up a few times to invis torp bug too...which did not help.

    Even Hive Advanced can easily be accomplished with rare Mk XI if you know what you're doing. Skill >>>> Gear.
    It's only when the player skill level is iffy and synergy is missing in a build that upgraded equipment can make a difference.

    The problem with Hive this weekend was the endeavor and many newbies flocking in to get it without having the basics down.
    Anyway, as @starswordc said, post your build here in skillplanner and the crew here can provide some pointers.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    There's only one Hive Onslaught which would need a nerf, if any, and that's Elite, because it might be too difficult for all players.... but that's the very nature of an Elite queue. So, let's leave it 'as is.'
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,485 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    There's only one Hive Onslaught which would need a nerf, if any, and that's Elite, because it might be too difficult for all players.... but that's the very nature of an Elite queue. So, let's leave it 'as is.'

    With the power creep i doubt that Hive Onslaught Elite will continue to be challenging. Since i only PUG i have yet to play that STF.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    Flaming/trolling removed.

    ConcreteVagueCobra-size_restricted.gif

    Knock it off. — StarSword-C
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,916 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    I just love when people can't do some queue in this game, so they come here and beg the devs to nerf it so they can play it.

    I never go into advanced/elite ones except for CCA if I need radiogenic particles.

    I very much doubt that Hive needs to be nerfed, the OP just needs a better build, as they admitted that their build is not optimal. Either that or do Advanced, which has no fail, or Normal, which should be a cakewalk

    Flaming/trolling removed.

    ConcreteVagueCobra-size_restricted.gif

    Knock it off. — StarSword-C
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    [Mod Hat] Easy there, no need to flame inexperienced players. [/Mod Hat]

    We vets forget sometimes that the game doesn't really provide any in-play tutoring on builds, and it's not a skill that comes naturally to every gamer.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    starswordc wrote: »
    [Mod Hat] Easy there, no need to flame inexperienced players. [/Mod Hat]

    We vets forget sometimes that the game doesn't really provide any in-play tutoring on builds, and it's not a skill that comes naturally to every gamer.
    True. I might have come off as bit too sarcastic. I would nonetheless advise inexperienced players to start on the lowest difficulty setting, rather than the highest.
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,916 Arc User
    Apologies too. The advice warpangel just gave is very sound. Play the lowest difficulty until you learn how things work. Ask for help, not nerfs.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,579 Community Moderator
    I'm an experienced player, and my most recent Advanced Run... felt like it was on elite+ during the fight with the Unimatrix ships. A couple of us were actually oneshot by a SINGLE plasma Torpedo. Not a spread. Not the Plasma Bolt. Just... Plasma Torpedo. We even team wiped a couple times, and I got lanced coming back in and was clearly within range of the Queen's ship, which is supposed to be a safe zone from the lances. Phase 1 and the fight with the Queen's ship went as smoothly as expected, but for some reason the difficulty ramped up with the Unimatrix ships.

    And this was with a team that had one Megawell, my semi Megawell Crossfield, a decently geared NX refit, and a couple other ships, one of which was actually doing enough DPS to pull aggro away from the Megawell.

    Was starting to wonder if the old string of code saying "every time the Devs fix something, the Borg break" was activated again. I'd prefer the super EPtE Spheres over oneshot torpedos.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    Yang Xiao Long wrote:
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    Even Elite doesn't take as much as people think. I just did a run a few days ago with Connor and Tunebreaker, we had one guy in our group that did like 10k and we still blasted through with little problem. People think you need 5 guys going 80k+ each and it's not the case.

    HSE is one of the few times in this game where I still have to make an effort not to get blown up. I would hate to see that go away.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,579 Community Moderator
    Well... something broke.
    I do admit though that the lance was charging when I was dashing in, so I don't know if it was supposed to actually fire if I was close to the Queen after charging or it was supposed to just cut off kinda like I got out of the firing arc.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    Yang Xiao Long wrote:
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    seaofsorrows wrote: »
    Even Elite doesn't take as much as people think. I just did a run a few days ago with Connor and Tunebreaker, we had one guy in our group that did like 10k and we still blasted through with little problem. People think you need 5 guys going 80k+ each and it's not the case.

    HSE is one of the few times in this game where I still have to make an effort not to get blown up. I would hate to see that go away.

    Well yea I guess the absolute minimum DPS requirements to beat the timer of stage 1 in HSE are 150k so 30k per player. The League guys did such lower DPS stunts some time ago going in with T2 ships and stuff or rather lack of it.

    https://youtu.be/TRAve-hsHPY

    Ryan even soloed it back at the day. Such approaches really precision flight as player’s need to be aware of their own build’s capabilities as well as the respective situation. Pull a tiny bit too much aggro and one is done, be too careful and one is done as well.

    https://youtu.be/3X8q7O7rklY

    If it’s up to me to assemble a team I think the comfort zone here is roughly twice as much so 300k as a team. Therefore I’m pretty confident that you, tunebreaker and I could three-man that map without much pain and it would not really matter who we take as 4th and 5th. Stuff gets especially funny when all of sudden game mechanics like tanking, crowd controlling and healing begin to surface reminding us that actually we do have a thing as trinity in STO. :)
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    I think Peter's 150k is about right (when me and Cath 2-manned it, our DPS was ~80k each after finishing first wave, and we had 2 and half minutes remaining on the clock), however with a large caveat - you have either an exceptional tank or healer in your team (with only 150k DPS for entire team, preferrably both).

    In order to just DPS your way through, 100k, perhaps even more per teammate is needed. Even with 300k, you'd need someone who can soak up aggro for extended period of time.
    Therefore I’m pretty confident that you, tunebreaker and I could three-man that map without much pain.
    Ha, with you tanking, I'm also confident we could pull it off. :)
    ypKK3uF.png

    U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
    R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build

    My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
  • asuran14asuran14 Member Posts: 2,335 Arc User
    Yeah does not really need nerf, just sto needs better methods of getting players new to the ques to learn the mechanics. The idea of having different difficulties allowing players to learn the mechanics as they progress thru them on paper is good, but if you do not make it that players actually progress up the difficulties flat-lines the entire approach. If they found some method of getting players to want to do the different difficulties, and instead of trying to play/leech in higher difficulties they really should not be in it might help players to get a better idea of what they can/should do in them.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    peterconnorfirst wrote: »
    Therefore I’m pretty confident that you, tunebreaker and I could three-man that map without much pain and it would not really matter who we take as 4th and 5th.

    tunebreaker wrote: »
    Ha, with you tanking, I'm also confident we could pull it off. :)

    I have to agree with tune, with you super tanking, I like our odds. :smile:
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    (Discussion of moderation removed. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    sheldonlcooper wrote: »
    people were playing for the endeavor and had no idea about the mission. it's fine as it is.

    This.

    This scenario seems to be happening rather a lot since the Endeavour system launched. Players want the Endeavour reward and thus play content that they would otherwise ignore.


    You realize, of course, that this is *precisely* why they created Endeavors, right? So ppl will do content that they would otherwise ignore. A rather p*ss-poor way to get ppl to engage in certain content (as opposed to, say, making ppl want to play stuff because it's, I dunno, interesting and fun to do, maybe?!); but there it is.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
This discussion has been closed.