Trouble with Korfez is that for most people they have no hope of ever getting near completing it, or even starting it tbh. Unless you run in circles of players who are capable of that 100K dmg output and are familiar with the mission then you're squat out of luck.
And the lack of normal or advanced difficulty means most of us will never experience the mission. So there's no way to practice for an elite run, should you even be able to get one going.
Agreed.
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I must remember to try and convince a few of my more boastful friends to queue for it. Its a useful reminder that 100k in ISA doesn't necessarily translate to other content, partcularly not Korfez.
I got a chance to run FEZ two or three times with @tunebreaker, players of The Science Channel and members of our fleet and we managed to do it. I agree with the map being tough and I even would lie when I say that I understand how we got through all the objectives (benthans & asteroidfield) but it was doable and that with builds that would score around 100k in average ISA pugs.
Sadly the reward is poor. If it would hand out 350+ marks of choice I could see peeps give it a try more often.
Unlikely. To merely match the reward/time ratio of average pug CCA, a 15-minute mission would need to reward over 10k dil ore and 1k marks per run. And that's just accounting for time, not difficulty.
I doubt any realistic amount of same old, same old is ever going to make any of the long queues monetarily attractive. Not even the autowin ones, much less a challenge like Korfez.
Agreed as well, at least for the most part. I think that 90% of the players that would line up for fez in exclusively light of better rewards could not handle it anyway, so even the prospect of 10k Dil would hardly be an incentive in the long run. The means to carry others are highly limited as well there so basically every player has do his part.
At the upper end of players however things might be a bit different. Take ISA. Pug it and it pops in a flash, 1-2 good players can ensure a 2 minute run and make the lucrative reward possible in the first place. That would not work with Fez.
A premade however is an entirely different beast. It takes like 5 minutes to assemble a group, 1 minute to invite, 2 more till all feel ready, another 1 till the map loads and 2 more minutes wait for pets and give a go. Then you play ISA for 45 seconds after witch you analyze the match in CLR for another 3 minutes. Fez would still be harder to do but the overall timeframe it takes to do so for a group of players should not be that completely out of proportion. WFP and combat logs are completely irrelevant here as a start.
If the map appeals at the urge for a challenge, and would the rewards at least not be such a hit in the face I could definitely see more players go for it.
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The thing with a lot of maps in the game is that because there are so many to choose from you could just play something like Korfez once a week and just enjoy the content for what it is without worrying about the reward. That's the way i look at things now; i don't need and dilithium, marks or macguffins so i play queues for the pleasure of flying my favourite ship in combat. The rewards for most mean little to me, it's the taking part and the mission itself that is the draw.
Things like CCA, ISA etc and the like are always going to be seen purely as farming missions, but for those interested in more than simply rewards there is a lot to choose from. The problem is nobody wants to play them because a lot of people are still hung up on rewards or payment for their time being the only factor in what they do in STO.
I’m probable too naive but cryptic mentioned in the latest podcast that they tend to pve maps again in autumn. As first step it has been said, that player can line up for a random queue. By doing so additional rewards are earned. The term multiple choice marks fell as well. I could live with that and see it go well.
While I doubt that anybody close to me in game still plays ISA for rewards anymore enhancing them on other maps would surely be a good thing anyway. And by much. Especially elite space maps fall drastically behind compared to their advanced version in comparison.
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I’m probable too naive but cryptic mentioned in the latest podcast that they tend to pve maps again in autumn. As first step it has been said, that player can line up for a random queue. By doing so additional rewards are earned. The term multiple choice marks fell as well. I could live with that and see it go well.
While I doubt that anybody close to me in game still plays ISA for rewards anymore enhancing them on other maps would surely be a good thing anyway. And by much. Especially elite space maps fall drastically behind compared to their advanced version in comparison.
To add on top of that - optionals, especially in elites (yes, i know, advanced optionals become mandatory in elite, but elites tend to have additional optional on top of that) need to pay out more too. The most anecdotal example comes from Storming the Spire Elite, which is already probably the hardest queue in the whole game to complete. Getting optional is extremely tough there.
And when we finally managed to get the optional one day with TSC, we were rewarded with 1 (yes, one) extra mark.
However, I don't believe extra marks for optionals is a good idea after all. As mentioned so many times by so many different ppl, those who do elites most probably don't need any marks. But a unique (even if only cosmetic) item from each elite queue, when completed with all optionals intact, would be very tempting.
And for subsequent playthroughs (with the optional again completed, naturally), they could give Romulan admirality-like upgrades (no dil cost, but has chance to improve item rarity). Maybe even a different item with similar usefulness for each queue. I bet that would be much more appreciated than just a bit more marks and maybe dil ore.
If you want to tempt people with rewards increases they have to be something they can't get elsewhere for less work.
So even if you increased the marks rewards I could still go play Borg & Tholian RA's + ISA & CCA in less time than a single elite or some advanced maps takes. I could probably easily get 400+ marks (that's half my daily dil refine) within 15 mins, just with pug groups using those 4 maps.
So the rewards in marks for one 15 min elite map would need to be almost 400 marks to be roughly equal. That's not even including the dilithium the map rewards itself, nor any elite marks like neural processors.
I guess what i'm saying is that simply increasing the existing rewards is not the solution, there's always an easier way to get more of the same thing.
What's needed is something that you can get ONLY in those maps. The old elite borg maps used to give out up to 11 BNP's, that was their unique reward, and tbh i played them daily in a cycle to get as many as possibly. Sure it was random but it got me playing elite content at the time.
And prior to the reps they would give out VR rep gear as rewards, again it got people playing the maps.
So really all you need to a reward that it unique to that map, and can be acquired multiple times to encourage repeat runs.
Add back in VR (or UR/Epic) loot drops to entice people to collect gear.
Add in loot unique to said map/faction.
single use devices or cosmetic drops . Maybe cosmetic shield visuals like those in lockboxes. Or nice devices like those ones in the DSC lockbox.
Lobi crystals as a random reward chance.
Lots of possibilities to get people playing more queues and trying new stuff rather than just farming ISA 'till their fingers drop off.
The thing with a lot of maps in the game is that because there are so many to choose from you could just play something like Korfez once a week and just enjoy the content for what it is without worrying about the reward. That's the way i look at things now; i don't need and dilithium, marks or macguffins so i play queues for the pleasure of flying my favourite ship in combat. The rewards for most mean little to me, it's the taking part and the mission itself that is the draw.
That's presumably the only reason anyone ever runs it at all.
Things like CCA, ISA etc and the like are always going to be seen purely as farming missions, but for those interested in more than simply rewards there is a lot to choose from. The problem is nobody wants to play them because a lot of people are still hung up on rewards or payment for their time being the only factor in what they do in STO.
Many people don't find repeating the same content "for what it is" as enjoyable. I've played all the content in the game at least once, out of pure curiosity. But the second time it's "been there, done that" and I have to ask what's in it for me.
I’m probable too naive but cryptic mentioned in the latest podcast that they tend to pve maps again in autumn. As first step it has been said, that player can line up for a random queue. By doing so additional rewards are earned. The term multiple choice marks fell as well. I could live with that and see it go well.
While I doubt that anybody close to me in game still plays ISA for rewards anymore enhancing them on other maps would surely be a good thing anyway. And by much. Especially elite space maps fall drastically behind compared to their advanced version in comparison.
To add on top of that - optionals, especially in elites (yes, i know, advanced optionals become mandatory in elite, but elites tend to have additional optional on top of that) need to pay out more too. The most anecdotal example comes from Storming the Spire Elite, which is already probably the hardest queue in the whole game to complete. Getting optional is extremely tough there.
And when we finally managed to get the optional one day with TSC, we were rewarded with 1 (yes, one) extra mark.
However, I don't believe extra marks for optionals is a good idea after all. As mentioned so many times by so many different ppl, those who do elites most probably don't need any marks. But a unique (even if only cosmetic) item from each elite queue, when completed with all optionals intact, would be very tempting.
And for subsequent playthroughs (with the optional again completed, naturally), they could give Romulan admirality-like upgrades (no dil cost, but has chance to improve item rarity). Maybe even a different item with similar usefulness for each queue. I bet that would be much more appreciated than just a bit more marks and maybe dil ore.
Oh yea, you are so right with that. Forgot about it. Especially additional marks for optional objectives should be massively buffed. The way they are now too few pay them attention and one can’t put any blame. Think MIA is one of the worst examples as one can get through without any optional at all and still get a much better payout than on MIN.
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Many people don't find repeating the same content "for what it is" as enjoyable. I've played all the content in the game at least once, out of pure curiosity. But the second time it's "been there, done that" and I have to ask what's in it for me.
Think much of it is attitude. For me playing PvE is more like a soccer match (or any other team sport). The playfield is the same (map), the ball is the same (critters), the rules are the same (abilities) but the team I play with is always different making the experience always refreshing again.
Nevertheless you are right with correlation of repetitive content and rewards attached to it. Think the one and only drive most if not all mmopg players share is the urge to progress ones characters.
That seems to be put on top of everything by all, so economic aspects have to be considered.
With my goal to keep a dozen toons at or near high end I simply cannot afford to play PvE “just for fun” all the time. Let it be ISA, FEZ or a foundry. If I don’t progress with what I’m doing the “fun” I experience is heavily cut back.
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Many people don't find repeating the same content "for what it is" as enjoyable. I've played all the content in the game at least once, out of pure curiosity. But the second time it's "been there, done that" and I have to ask what's in it for me.
Think much of it is attitude. For me playing PvE is more like a soccer match (or any other team sport). The playfield is the same (map), the ball is the same (critters), the rules are the same (abilities) but the team I play with is always different making the experience always refreshing again.
But team sports are PvP, meaning the opponents are not the same.
Well yea that’s why mentioned attitude and analogized the ball with the critters and not with any form of opposition.
In STO we have to make do with what we got. If cryptic would change the PvP game a bit where we could take away resources of opposing teams, a “5k Dil saker” or something, things might be different. Heh, but still broken in light of so many OP and broken Items so a total lack of rules.
Na, PvE is all one got for active toon progression and if a map is fun to play I never had the feeling I would run it twice. And I probably made thousands of ISAs and hundreds of HSEs the past 6 years.
Yesterday was particularly interesting in HSE. Got another chance to run a few more with 3 players I greatly admire and from which I learned a lot. Really glad that after years of practice I can play alongside them! Business as usual? Rather the opposite as the 5th in team was sadly far below expectations. He could not fulfill his assigned tasks and his builds capacity where hardly enough to be there in the first place. The results were catastrophic and we had game dynamic of the extreme where a single weak element puts all efforts of teamplay to dust. Never had that.
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Gotta say, this thread inspired me. Who knew trinity tactics could be both fun and effective? And who knew one would be able to complete HSE with just 3 players - all that without any deaths? And more importantly, who knew the game has such a wonderful map where teamplay matters to it's fullest extent?
Gotta say, this thread inspired me. Who knew trinity tactics could be both fun and effective? And who knew one would be able to complete HSE with just 3 players - all that without any deaths? And more importantly, who knew the game has such a wonderful map where teamplay matters to it's fullest extent?
Impressive stuff.
Most of us can only dream of that sort of fight lol.
What's that blue swirly effect you get round the npcs every so often? Looks like lots of different light blue curvy lines moving around. Can be seen well at 5.29mins.
Impressive stuff.
Most of us can only dream of that sort of fight lol.
What's that blue swirly effect you get round the npcs every so often? Looks like lots of different light blue curvy lines moving around. Can be seen well at 5.29mins.
Thanks guys! Wasn't too easy to get the run as clean as this one was.
And that swirly effect is my Constriction Anchor.
I was really amazed by this run. 9 minute sustained Diamond DPS from our TAC, mega crowd control & heals from a sci and an ENG tank getting preferably attacked by the critters despite much lower DPS and higher ranger from targets.
Far out! The core mechanics one would associate with trinity seem to be more present in STO than most players give them credit for.
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an ENG tank getting preferably attacked by the critters despite much lower DPS and higher ranger from targets.
So would this particular part indicate that a high quality tank is now about more than simply using pure DPS to aggro the enemy? Looks to me like there's a lot more going on that what people traditionally assume to be the role of a tank.
an ENG tank getting preferably attacked by the critters despite much lower DPS and higher ranger from targets.
So would this particular part indicate that a high quality tank is now about more than simply using pure DPS to aggro the enemy? Looks to me like there's a lot more going on that what people traditionally assume to be the role of a tank.
Fun part is there seem not to be that much to it when one likes to convert an energy based DPS boat to a tank.
On K’ris I think I only use:
- Cruiser Command: Attract Fire
- Threatening Stance turned on (with the respective selection in horizontal skill tree to emphasize it a bit)
- One + threat console from embassy
- A weak, almost EPG free, gravity well 1 as it often seems to fish attack out of mobs I would not get with beams alone.
That’s basically it. We would also have a doff available generating agro when using AP Delta but I had no room for this on the selected build. I use it on others though.
I was a bit embarrassed about my low DPS and noticed afterwards that I even forgot to turn on auto fire on the recorded run. Was due to a test from a previous fight. Nevertheless it worked in favor of what tune liked to demonstrate and ended me up quite surprised.
I have heard we have much more knowledgeable tanks in the community where tune and zooey come from.
Like with most other stuff I get my knowledge feed from Felisean and Hellspawny for the most part and they evaluate regularly what stuff can be used to stay alive best. So the defenses I had with me were also much less extreme than most would think. Reverse Shield Polarity, Protomatter Console, Dynamic Power Distributer, Honored Dead, a single Voth beam and Give your All trait which goes crazy on aux2bat builds. All in all things we advise in build recomendations in DPS league so nthing special.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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an ENG tank getting preferably attacked by the critters despite much lower DPS and higher ranger from targets.
So would this particular part indicate that a high quality tank is now about more than simply using pure DPS to aggro the enemy? Looks to me like there's a lot more going on that what people traditionally assume to be the role of a tank.
Think this fits here very well. https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/comments/5qm7zh/tanking_guide_season_12_from_the_ground_up/
Some of this stuff is old and doesn't apply anymore, but in most part it's still true. In short, DPS has never been the only form for a tank to generate aggro, it's just rather an important part of it (and Pete did 68k which is very good score, especially considering how we were mostly attacking single targets only). You see, threat is generated by DPS+heals+proximity and that is later amplified via various resources like Embassy consoles, Attract Fire and Threatening Stance (all of which Pete used). But you still need to have something generated before you can amplify it. And naturally, it's preferable when enemies die faster.
Also worth noting that I'm running a single -TH console and both me and Zooey have Threat Control picked in skilltree.
Also, when you look at the DPS chart at the end of the video, you can see that myself and especially Zooey do much more spikes, while Pete keeps a rather solid constant pressure on enemies. And just observe what happens to me at, for example, 0:30 and at 3:10 with Zooey.
And Pete, I'm pretty sure that for majority of time, you were the closest to the enemies.
Depressing? Why is that?
Sure, Youtube butchered the video quality after upload as usual, but it's not like you had actual source material available to make any comparisons.
Depressing? Why is that?
Sure, Youtube butchered the video quality after upload as usual, but it's not like you had actual source material available to make any comparisons.
Dunno about meimeitoo, but IMO it's depressing because it shows exactly how much more the game would be capable of, if only it would encourage and reward that kind of gameplay.
Depressing? Why is that?
Sure, Youtube butchered the video quality after upload as usual, but it's not like you had actual source material available to make any comparisons.
Dunno about meimeitoo, but IMO it's depressing because it shows exactly how much more the game would be capable of, if only it would encourage and reward that kind of gameplay.
I agree, completely. As for HSE I roughly estemate that the map would need to be twice as hard to grand a rewarding game experience for a full team of players the same caliber as in the video.
Unfortunatly I do not know how much room this would leave for everybody else in game.
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I don’t get many opportunities to play Korfez. Wish I did.
As for the Borg, they are too easy to kill. There’s nowhere near the “threat” factor that you see in the TV series. The Red Alert is a complete joke. Even in the other queues in Advanced, I’ve seen the first cube destroyed in literally a couple of seconds. Can’t really say anything about Elite because I never get queued for it. I guess what I’m trying to say is when things get too easy, the fun dimenishes for me. If there’s no challenge, then I’m just wasting time. If anything, I think the Borg need to get stronger and there needs to be less of them in the queue.
Depressing? Why is that?
Sure, Youtube butchered the video quality after upload as usual, but it's not like you had actual source material available to make any comparisons.
Dunno about meimeitoo, but IMO it's depressing because it shows exactly how much more the game would be capable of, if only it would encourage and reward that kind of gameplay.
I agree, completely. As for HSE I roughly estemate that the map would need to be twice as hard to grand a rewarding game experience for a full team of players the same caliber as in the video.
Unfortunatly I do not know how much room this would leave for everybody else in game.
Everybody doesn't need be able to run the same map. That's what difficulty levels are (supposed to be) for.
Depressing? Why is that?
Sure, Youtube butchered the video quality after upload as usual, but it's not like you had actual source material available to make any comparisons.
Dunno about meimeitoo, but IMO it's depressing because it shows exactly how much more the game would be capable of, if only it would encourage and reward that kind of gameplay.
I agree, completely. As for HSE I roughly estemate that the map would need to be twice as hard to grand a rewarding game experience for a full team of players the same caliber as in the video.
Unfortunatly I do not know how much room this would leave for everybody else in game.
Everybody doesn't need be able to run the same map. That's what difficulty levels are (supposed to be) for.
I agree again!
As things are now in Hive, to do advanced is easier than an ISA split and in normal setting I can almost oneshot (voley at least) most of the critters. To give a linear difficulty curve better scaled to the progression curve of the playerbase 6 - 7 game difficulty settings should be enough to give every team a fair chance in Hive. Now if we just would not have those problems to even fill three...
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Just out of interest what is it specifically about HSE that people here feel makes it truly elite? In my experience it simple HP bloat that's the hardest part.
I can generally survive against most enemies but with things like HSE the HP's are so high that i simply run out of time i guess i'd say. I can't do enough damage in a short enough time for the enemy not to kill me first through attrition. And often objective timers run out on less able groups rather than the actual fight beating them.
Enemy damage in STO is generally not all that heavy apart from the odd exception, and often it's simply a mass of ships swarming you that brings you down, or simply continual fire that you can no longer heal or tank.
A real elite enemy should be unpredictable, it should catch you off guard with random choices and ability usage. It should not just be harder by virtue of having a shed load of HP's to batter down.
I'm sure others have their own opinions but this is just my feeling.
Maybe depressing in terms of 'how could these super DPS levels be possible in this game'?
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'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Just out of interest what is it specifically about HSE that people here feel makes it truly elite? In my experience it simple HP bloat that's the hardest part.
I can generally survive against most enemies but with things like HSE the HP's are so high that i simply run out of time i guess i'd say. I can't do enough damage in a short enough time for the enemy not to kill me first through attrition. And often objective timers run out on less able groups rather than the actual fight beating them.
Enemy damage in STO is generally not all that heavy apart from the odd exception, and often it's simply a mass of ships swarming you that brings you down, or simply continual fire that you can no longer heal or tank.
A real elite enemy should be unpredictable, it should catch you off guard with random choices and ability usage. It should not just be harder by virtue of having a shed load of HP's to batter down.
I'm sure others have their own opinions but this is just my feeling.
Thing with HSE is that it requires a really good amount of both survivability and DPS. In fact, the damage done in HSE enemies is probably the highest (apart from possibly CPE, but tanking and surviving for extended periods of time in there is not needed at all). You can see from the video that we didn't go full in, cause we knew if we'd do that, we'd be swarmed by the enemies and would blow up sooner or later. Instead, we killed the spheres quickly and then took cubes one or 2 at the time. For majority of teams you simply need either a tank or a healer, and on top of that also solid DPS from everyone involved, to be able to successfully complete the first phase within 10 minutes.
Sure, you have the option to fully DPS through it, but in that case you'd really need *a ton* of DPS, something possible for only very few in the game. And speaking of queue itself, it's actually a small portion of players who are actually being able to complete it.
It's not the hardest of the elites, but it's popular, because it's not timegated and team can work together in all stages (pretty much any other elite has some form of team separation going on).
However, I agree with you that there's not much of unpredictability going on in there.
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Agreed.
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Agreed as well, at least for the most part. I think that 90% of the players that would line up for fez in exclusively light of better rewards could not handle it anyway, so even the prospect of 10k Dil would hardly be an incentive in the long run. The means to carry others are highly limited as well there so basically every player has do his part.
At the upper end of players however things might be a bit different. Take ISA. Pug it and it pops in a flash, 1-2 good players can ensure a 2 minute run and make the lucrative reward possible in the first place. That would not work with Fez.
A premade however is an entirely different beast. It takes like 5 minutes to assemble a group, 1 minute to invite, 2 more till all feel ready, another 1 till the map loads and 2 more minutes wait for pets and give a go. Then you play ISA for 45 seconds after witch you analyze the match in CLR for another 3 minutes. Fez would still be harder to do but the overall timeframe it takes to do so for a group of players should not be that completely out of proportion. WFP and combat logs are completely irrelevant here as a start.
If the map appeals at the urge for a challenge, and would the rewards at least not be such a hit in the face I could definitely see more players go for it.
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Things like CCA, ISA etc and the like are always going to be seen purely as farming missions, but for those interested in more than simply rewards there is a lot to choose from. The problem is nobody wants to play them because a lot of people are still hung up on rewards or payment for their time being the only factor in what they do in STO.
While I doubt that anybody close to me in game still plays ISA for rewards anymore enhancing them on other maps would surely be a good thing anyway. And by much. Especially elite space maps fall drastically behind compared to their advanced version in comparison.
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To add on top of that - optionals, especially in elites (yes, i know, advanced optionals become mandatory in elite, but elites tend to have additional optional on top of that) need to pay out more too. The most anecdotal example comes from Storming the Spire Elite, which is already probably the hardest queue in the whole game to complete. Getting optional is extremely tough there.
And when we finally managed to get the optional one day with TSC, we were rewarded with 1 (yes, one) extra mark.
However, I don't believe extra marks for optionals is a good idea after all. As mentioned so many times by so many different ppl, those who do elites most probably don't need any marks. But a unique (even if only cosmetic) item from each elite queue, when completed with all optionals intact, would be very tempting.
And for subsequent playthroughs (with the optional again completed, naturally), they could give Romulan admirality-like upgrades (no dil cost, but has chance to improve item rarity). Maybe even a different item with similar usefulness for each queue. I bet that would be much more appreciated than just a bit more marks and maybe dil ore.
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So even if you increased the marks rewards I could still go play Borg & Tholian RA's + ISA & CCA in less time than a single elite or some advanced maps takes. I could probably easily get 400+ marks (that's half my daily dil refine) within 15 mins, just with pug groups using those 4 maps.
So the rewards in marks for one 15 min elite map would need to be almost 400 marks to be roughly equal. That's not even including the dilithium the map rewards itself, nor any elite marks like neural processors.
I guess what i'm saying is that simply increasing the existing rewards is not the solution, there's always an easier way to get more of the same thing.
What's needed is something that you can get ONLY in those maps. The old elite borg maps used to give out up to 11 BNP's, that was their unique reward, and tbh i played them daily in a cycle to get as many as possibly. Sure it was random but it got me playing elite content at the time.
And prior to the reps they would give out VR rep gear as rewards, again it got people playing the maps.
So really all you need to a reward that it unique to that map, and can be acquired multiple times to encourage repeat runs.
Lots of possibilities to get people playing more queues and trying new stuff rather than just farming ISA 'till their fingers drop off.
Many people don't find repeating the same content "for what it is" as enjoyable. I've played all the content in the game at least once, out of pure curiosity. But the second time it's "been there, done that" and I have to ask what's in it for me.
Oh yea, you are so right with that. Forgot about it. Especially additional marks for optional objectives should be massively buffed. The way they are now too few pay them attention and one can’t put any blame. Think MIA is one of the worst examples as one can get through without any optional at all and still get a much better payout than on MIN.
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Think much of it is attitude. For me playing PvE is more like a soccer match (or any other team sport). The playfield is the same (map), the ball is the same (critters), the rules are the same (abilities) but the team I play with is always different making the experience always refreshing again.
Nevertheless you are right with correlation of repetitive content and rewards attached to it. Think the one and only drive most if not all mmopg players share is the urge to progress ones characters.
That seems to be put on top of everything by all, so economic aspects have to be considered.
With my goal to keep a dozen toons at or near high end I simply cannot afford to play PvE “just for fun” all the time. Let it be ISA, FEZ or a foundry. If I don’t progress with what I’m doing the “fun” I experience is heavily cut back.
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Well yea that’s why mentioned attitude and analogized the ball with the critters and not with any form of opposition.
In STO we have to make do with what we got. If cryptic would change the PvP game a bit where we could take away resources of opposing teams, a “5k Dil saker” or something, things might be different. Heh, but still broken in light of so many OP and broken Items so a total lack of rules.
Na, PvE is all one got for active toon progression and if a map is fun to play I never had the feeling I would run it twice. And I probably made thousands of ISAs and hundreds of HSEs the past 6 years.
Yesterday was particularly interesting in HSE. Got another chance to run a few more with 3 players I greatly admire and from which I learned a lot. Really glad that after years of practice I can play alongside them! Business as usual? Rather the opposite as the 5th in team was sadly far below expectations. He could not fulfill his assigned tasks and his builds capacity where hardly enough to be there in the first place. The results were catastrophic and we had game dynamic of the extreme where a single weak element puts all efforts of teamplay to dust. Never had that.
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U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
Very nicely done!
Most of us can only dream of that sort of fight lol.
What's that blue swirly effect you get round the npcs every so often? Looks like lots of different light blue curvy lines moving around. Can be seen well at 5.29mins.
Thanks guys!
And that swirly effect is my Constriction Anchor.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
Thanks for making and sharing such stuff!
I was really amazed by this run. 9 minute sustained Diamond DPS from our TAC, mega crowd control & heals from a sci and an ENG tank getting preferably attacked by the critters despite much lower DPS and higher ranger from targets.
Far out! The core mechanics one would associate with trinity seem to be more present in STO than most players give them credit for.
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So would this particular part indicate that a high quality tank is now about more than simply using pure DPS to aggro the enemy? Looks to me like there's a lot more going on that what people traditionally assume to be the role of a tank.
Fun part is there seem not to be that much to it when one likes to convert an energy based DPS boat to a tank.
On K’ris I think I only use:
- Cruiser Command: Attract Fire
- Threatening Stance turned on (with the respective selection in horizontal skill tree to emphasize it a bit)
- One + threat console from embassy
- A weak, almost EPG free, gravity well 1 as it often seems to fish attack out of mobs I would not get with beams alone.
That’s basically it. We would also have a doff available generating agro when using AP Delta but I had no room for this on the selected build. I use it on others though.
I was a bit embarrassed about my low DPS and noticed afterwards that I even forgot to turn on auto fire on the recorded run. Was due to a test from a previous fight. Nevertheless it worked in favor of what tune liked to demonstrate and ended me up quite surprised.
I have heard we have much more knowledgeable tanks in the community where tune and zooey come from.
Like with most other stuff I get my knowledge feed from Felisean and Hellspawny for the most part and they evaluate regularly what stuff can be used to stay alive best. So the defenses I had with me were also much less extreme than most would think. Reverse Shield Polarity, Protomatter Console, Dynamic Power Distributer, Honored Dead, a single Voth beam and Give your All trait which goes crazy on aux2bat builds. All in all things we advise in build recomendations in DPS league so nthing special.
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Think this fits here very well. https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/comments/5qm7zh/tanking_guide_season_12_from_the_ground_up/
Some of this stuff is old and doesn't apply anymore, but in most part it's still true. In short, DPS has never been the only form for a tank to generate aggro, it's just rather an important part of it (and Pete did 68k which is very good score, especially considering how we were mostly attacking single targets only). You see, threat is generated by DPS+heals+proximity and that is later amplified via various resources like Embassy consoles, Attract Fire and Threatening Stance (all of which Pete used). But you still need to have something generated before you can amplify it. And naturally, it's preferable when enemies die faster.
Also worth noting that I'm running a single -TH console and both me and Zooey have Threat Control picked in skilltree.
Also, when you look at the DPS chart at the end of the video, you can see that myself and especially Zooey do much more spikes, while Pete keeps a rather solid constant pressure on enemies. And just observe what happens to me at, for example, 0:30 and at 3:10 with Zooey.
And Pete, I'm pretty sure that for majority of time, you were the closest to the enemies.
Oh, you're right. I think this is the first video where you see my Buteo Regalis in it's current iteration.
Thanks!
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
Depressing? Why is that?
Sure, Youtube butchered the video quality after upload as usual, but it's not like you had actual source material available to make any comparisons.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
I agree, completely. As for HSE I roughly estemate that the map would need to be twice as hard to grand a rewarding game experience for a full team of players the same caliber as in the video.
Unfortunatly I do not know how much room this would leave for everybody else in game.
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As for the Borg, they are too easy to kill. There’s nowhere near the “threat” factor that you see in the TV series. The Red Alert is a complete joke. Even in the other queues in Advanced, I’ve seen the first cube destroyed in literally a couple of seconds. Can’t really say anything about Elite because I never get queued for it. I guess what I’m trying to say is when things get too easy, the fun dimenishes for me. If there’s no challenge, then I’m just wasting time. If anything, I think the Borg need to get stronger and there needs to be less of them in the queue.
I agree again!
As things are now in Hive, to do advanced is easier than an ISA split and in normal setting I can almost oneshot (voley at least) most of the critters. To give a linear difficulty curve better scaled to the progression curve of the playerbase 6 - 7 game difficulty settings should be enough to give every team a fair chance in Hive. Now if we just would not have those problems to even fill three...
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I can generally survive against most enemies but with things like HSE the HP's are so high that i simply run out of time i guess i'd say. I can't do enough damage in a short enough time for the enemy not to kill me first through attrition. And often objective timers run out on less able groups rather than the actual fight beating them.
Enemy damage in STO is generally not all that heavy apart from the odd exception, and often it's simply a mass of ships swarming you that brings you down, or simply continual fire that you can no longer heal or tank.
A real elite enemy should be unpredictable, it should catch you off guard with random choices and ability usage. It should not just be harder by virtue of having a shed load of HP's to batter down.
I'm sure others have their own opinions but this is just my feeling.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Thing with HSE is that it requires a really good amount of both survivability and DPS. In fact, the damage done in HSE enemies is probably the highest (apart from possibly CPE, but tanking and surviving for extended periods of time in there is not needed at all). You can see from the video that we didn't go full in, cause we knew if we'd do that, we'd be swarmed by the enemies and would blow up sooner or later. Instead, we killed the spheres quickly and then took cubes one or 2 at the time. For majority of teams you simply need either a tank or a healer, and on top of that also solid DPS from everyone involved, to be able to successfully complete the first phase within 10 minutes.
Sure, you have the option to fully DPS through it, but in that case you'd really need *a ton* of DPS, something possible for only very few in the game. And speaking of queue itself, it's actually a small portion of players who are actually being able to complete it.
It's not the hardest of the elites, but it's popular, because it's not timegated and team can work together in all stages (pretty much any other elite has some form of team separation going on).
However, I agree with you that there's not much of unpredictability going on in there.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.