The constant stream of posts from people insisting that there is no news announcements, despite the actual facts being opposite of that, says that many STO players do not in fact know where to find the news. On top of that, the fact that Neverwinter has had this same landing screen for years now says that it is useful to some & its not going anywhere.
You're putting the cart behind the horse. Instead of introducing a new landing screen, and having the launcher continually talk about this or that Zen sale that has long since ended, how's about they just FIX the launcher news!?
Now there's a concept PWE doesn't seem to grasp! Remember how many missions were removed from the game a while back? If they could remove the launcher, they probably would have a long time ago, like when they gave up on attempting to fix it.
PSA: if you opt to play a mission through the landing page (which auto-updates to the next recent mission you've yet to complete) you transwarp immediately with no cost.
Esc->click->done
That’s rather less convenient and much slower than the normal method
It literally takes me 2 seconds.
The normal none landing page method takes me around half a second, less mouse tracking and less clicks. As for the landing page is has not get any less frustrating over time.
Esc-> Play now -> Accept (instant transwarp, no cost)
That's two seconds, two clicks (compared to five) and involves considerably less mouse travel (both clicks in the LP method are centered). You can short cut the "normal method" by enabling mission auto-hail (ie. another pop-up). However, this only brings it in rough line with the landing page . There's no esc-key but there's much more mouse travel to compensate). It will roughly take two seconds. Note then you said "half a second." Simple response: do better in future to hold to a factual debate.
Further drawbacks of the normal method (with auto-hail) include the ec cost (it's a thing, however marginal), the annoyance of a pop-up with every mission completed, and separation of contact briefing from playthrough if you don't start the next episode right away. Opting for the landing page over auto-hail offers more control over when you get that briefing.
Now of course you don't need to use the slightly more optimal, and cheaper, method for queuing first time playthroughs. However, note that other people might and that can have an effect over their level of frustration RE. the landing page. The benefits above outweigh for me, personally, the minor issue of a few extra graphics. Don't worry, that doesn't mean that those people (ie. me) aren't supportive of changes you'd like to see. It simply means that motivating factors have changed. I'd like to see improvements made for their objective mechanical benefit, I'm not looking for Cryptic to cure my frustration in this respect.
So when I say "the landing page is less frustrating, personally" don't take that as a challenge which you have to rush to a contradiction to (and resort to bad estimates to keep step.) It's where I am. You do you.
guys, check t he date. the post is unpinned, they're not interested anymore.
That just means the only option is for people to keep leaving lots of feedback to keep it on page 1. Not spam mindlessly though.
I think enough has been said regardless for Cryptic to get a sense of where the forum community is on the landing page. It is, after all, a simple UI prompt and we covered the major points of feedback quite early in this discussion.
Bumping this thread won't offer new data that could inform and potentially change their decision making. It'll simply restate a point that can be reached through very simple deduction, ie. that some people are very unhappy with the page given that it hasn't been removed or made optional.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
The normal method is to press the little transwarp symbol on the mission window on the right hand side of the screen. It’s nearly always more convenient, faster, less clicks, while being free when you are already in the area which you normally are as the missions lead on from each other. Plus it takes around half a second to transwarp to where I want to be.
This method is also more reliable as it’s always the next mission in the chain. Unlike the landing screen which gives you the wrong mission more often than not. For example for me right now the splash screen wants me to replay a mission I finished yesterday not the next mission I need to do.
“Opting for the landing page over auto-hail offers more control over when you get that briefing.”
The splash screen is not giving me more control, it’s useless compared to the alternative. The facts you are making up about it auto-updates to the next recent mission are just not true. The landing page doesn’t show the next episode like you say. It shows the feature episodes which is a major difference as once played its irreverent information with a useless transwarp to the wrong area of where I need to be.
“I think enough has been said regardless for Cryptic to get a sense of where the forum community is on the landing page. It is, after all, a simple UI prompt and we covered the major points of feedback quite early in this discussion.
Bumping this thread won't offer new data that could inform and potentially change their decision making. It'll simply restate a point that can be reached through very simple deduction, ie. that some people are very unhappy with the page given that it hasn't been removed or made optional.”
Yet again you are incorrect. Weight of information even when it’s the same feedback already said by other people is in of itself useful feedback. A large group of people restating a simple point reached though simple deduction has very different meaning from a small group doing it.
This is why I am so against you trying to police this thread and you jumping on everyone saying the same thing. What you have been doing throughout this thread is bad and unhelpful for useful feedback.
The normal method is to press the little transwarp symbol on the mission window on the right hand side of the screen.
That's selective reasoning, ie. a logical fallacy that undermines the quality of your argument. You can do better. The transwarp symbol is available after you've queued the mission. Take the full process into account to make a valid comparison. Landing page is either faster or comparable to other methods (depending on auto-hail) for queuing the latest episodes (though those carry additional costs and drawbacks) as quantified (by step number) in my previous post.
You said something that was not accurate. Deal with it and move on.
The splash screen is not giving me more control,
I didn't say it was giving you more control. I'm benefiting from this aspect of the page and providing feedback accordingly. I get quick queuing of the latest episodes without being bombarded by mission auto-hails (ie. pop ups) with every completion or paying an EC cost (which does add up over time.)
This is why I am so against you trying to police this thread and you jumping on everyone saying the same thing. What you have been doing throughout this thread is bad and unhelpful for useful feedback.
You jumped on me here. Check the posts. I said something positive about the landing page (though again: don't mistake that for a full endorsement. I stand by my previous criticisms and suggestions, though I didn't think that was necessary to spell out so directly) in a reply to other people that sought to provide some added perspective to help avoid the thread becoming wholly self-assured. Ie. I was discussing things. And you thought that was sufficient to launch into another contradiction run (for personal reasons, as you stated) irrespective of (to be completely frank) most of what I've been saying (you don't seem to be trying to process much before replying. PS. I haven't ever seen the landing page queue up the wrong episode from the ViL set.)
Never mind that by me posting recent developments, challenging current feedback to step up to evolving circumstance (so it can be better), and thereby bringing this thread back to the top of the first page. You don't want this kind of critical feedback spoiling what you want this thread to be doing (well apart from level, productive conversation), as you've explained in your last two posts. (Oi...)
Remember: we've both been advocating for constructive changes to the landing page on similar lines. I'm simply becoming less frustrated with the landing page under VIL (for specifically cited reasons) and therefore see potential problems with using frustration as the argumentative keystone for landing page changes (as if the situation now is entirely the same as when the landing page first hit.) It may become much less persuasive a force over time as the population grow used to the landing page, circumstances change (ie. big content drops and events happen), and smaller iterative changes are made to provide more short cuts and updates (without the more substantial changes we've both been advocating for.) Other approaches are needed to make sure landing page feedback remains relevant.
(Though we'll see whether or not you recognize the complimentary interests there. I don't think so but you may surprise me.)
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Hey folks, we'll be making some changes to the landing page in an upcoming update - it was intended to only appear once per account, not once per character.
More than a month later, we're seeing the landing page appear on every character. In fact, I see it at least twice per character: once on the window that says "WELCOME BACK <character name>" and again on the main menu when I press Esc to switch characters or to log out. That's a lower bound. The landing page shows up every time you bring up the main menu for any reason — whether it's to rearrange the HUD, change the game's options, change characters, log out, or exit the game. If you switch to the same character more than once, then you see the landing page every time you press Esc to log out of that character. And if you restart the game client, the "WELCOME BACK" spam starts all over again.
Players who are below level 10 will not see this page upon log in.
This is not true. I see the landing page even on characters who are below level 10. My guess is that the determining factor is whether or not the character has finished the tutorial, where "finished the tutorial" means different things for Feds, Romulans, and Klingons. I see the landing page on my level 3 Ferengi, but not on my level 6 Reman. The last thing my Ferengi did was talk to Quinn after arriving on ESD; the last thing my Reman did was talk to D'Tan after arriving at the flotilla.
Are we still circling around this one? Kael was referring to the pop-up, it's the only aspect of the landing page that has a set per character or per account frequency. See above. The ESC-bound landing page is a variable for which your own input determines the frequency. And mind you, this was the consensus opinion up until the landing page was updated. Then, this complaint emerged that Kael was supposedly referring to the ESC menu as well. I do have to question whether that's objective feedback or a sliding scale of discontent. Now that the page is less annoying (it only pops up once per account), another angle is needed to continue justifying the same level of frustration (in hopes the major point: remove it, isn't undermined by the change in situation.) Enter: selective re-interpretation of an old post and refusal to accept qualifications when offered (V'ger style.)
I thought I was reasonably clear, but I'll repeat myself in different words in case you've misunderstood. On Thursday night and Friday morning, every time I ran the game client, I saw the "Welcome Back" window on every character I logged on to (except for low-level Romulan-faction toons). Since other people reported the same thing, it definitely wasn't just me. There was no selective reinterpretation; it was clearly bugged. If you didn't see it, maybe you logged on after they changed something. I'm no longer seeing the "Welcome Back" window on every character, and I'm pretty sure I've done nothing on my end to change that. I'm starting to think it's a server-side switch that has to be flipped manually after every maintenance. If so, that's clearly error-prone, and they should fix it.
The landing page on the main menu is a separate issue. Yes, the number of times one brings up the main menu is variable. But if I log on to N characters per day, then I see it at least N times (N-1 times for each character swap and once more when I log out of the last character). There's no reason to show the user the landing page that many times per day. Moreover, it doesn't really belong on the main menu. When someone is trying to switch characters, log out, exit the game, rearrange the HUD, or change the game's options, chances are they aren't looking to buy keys. Nor are they looking to play a mission. They have a specific task they are trying to accomplish, and a huge landing page that is unrelated to that task is an unwelcome distraction.
I'm not really sure why you think feedback should be objective. With the exception of bug reports (see above), feedback is by its very nature about opinions and therefore subjective. I've opposed the landing page being on the main menu from the beginning, and so have other people. Others don't mind. There is no consensus. There's no sliding scale and no circling back. Those of us who oppose the landing page being on the main menu have never agreed with it in the first place. There is no consensus, nor does there need to be one. People should be free to disagree and post their different opinions.
I'm not. Are you only playing one character? Silly to ask but it pays to be specific. Are you on the same map each time? What faction/species? If we can reproduce the conditions that cause this, a bug fix is more likely to happen in the near future.
I saw it on every character except for low-level Romulans and Remans. The maps were Starfleet Academy, Klingon Academy, and Earth Spacedock. As far as I can tell, the bug wasn't faction-specific. I saw it on my level 60 Romulan character, but not on the low-level ones, probably because of differences in character progression.
Refer to my posts throughout this thread. I'm not going to relitigate my own complaints about the landing page and what that says about my overall opinion about its design (relative to alternatives) because you want to have a different discussion from the one that's taking place.
I don't understand. You're not going file another lawsuit regarding your complaints about the landing page???
You don't want this kind of critical feedback spoiling what you want this thread to be doing (well apart from level, productive conversation), as you've explained in your last two posts. (Oi...)
As for wanting to have a different discussion and trying to make this thread what you want it to be, I might accuse you of the same thing. From what I've observed, you've been trying to manufacture a "consensus" and steer this thread in your preferred direction this entire time. Well, some of us refuse to be steered. Look, I think it's fine if you disagree with me, and I think it's fine if other people disagree with me. But I don't appreciate your attempts to make it seem as if your view is the consensus view. Let everyone have their say. We don't all have to agree.
The landing page on the main menu is a separate issue. Yes, the number of times one brings up the main menu is variable. But if I log on to N characters per day, then I see it at least N times (N-1 times for each character swap and once more when I log out of the last character). There's no reason to show the user the landing page that many times per day. Moreover, it doesn't really belong on the main menu. When someone is trying to switch characters, log out, exit the game, rearrange the HUD, or change the game's options, chances are they aren't looking to buy keys. Nor are they looking to play a mission. They have a specific task they are trying to accomplish, and a huge landing page that is unrelated to that task is an unwelcome distraction.
QFT. The above paragraph should be branded in mirror writing on the forehead of the Marketing droid who thought the ESC menu integrated version up, so he would be forced to see it every time he looks in a mirror...just like we have to see the blasted thing every time we try to use the ESC menu.
[
The landing page on the main menu is a separate issue. Yes, the number of times one brings up the main menu is variable. But if I log on to N characters per day, then I see it at least N times (N-1 times for each character swap and once more when I log out of the last character). There's no reason to show the user the landing page that many times per day. Moreover, it doesn't really belong on the main menu. When someone is trying to switch characters, log out, exit the game, rearrange the HUD, or change the game's options, chances are they aren't looking to buy keys. Nor are they looking to play a mission. They have a specific task they are trying to accomplish, and a huge landing page that is unrelated to that task is an unwelcome distraction.
See. previous suggestion: incorporate the landing page with the main mission journal (the latter performed similar functions and is a more intuitive home for content exploration, though could use an update.) I've been an advocate for this.
I'm not really sure why you think feedback should be objective. With the exception of bug reports (see above), feedback is by its very nature about opinions and therefore subjective. I've opposed the landing page being on the main menu from the beginning, and so have other people. Others don't mind. There is no consensus. There's no sliding scale and no circling back. Those of us who oppose the landing page being on the main menu have never agreed with it in the first place. There is no consensus, nor does there need to be one. People should be free to disagree and post their different opinions.
So have I. See. thread. People are free to disagree. See my explicit statements to that effect around this discussion and others on the forums. What more do I need to say to get that point across? Objective feedback is a process where you not only use your personal but some factual frame of reference that can place a subjective viewpoint in a wider context. It will never truly be objective but what we have in the English language is simply a reference to a less subjective approach to thinking.
I see this as important in feedback because an entirely subjective approach can miss major constraints and other interests. Therefore, it can refine what's asked to accommodate what's possible and what people besides oneself are concerned, and in so doing resulting in more actionable suggestions. This is not a bad thing and built into the fundamental compromise of attempting objectivity from a subjective viewpoint is the qualification "in my view, this is how things are." I've engaged in discussions attempting to refine that, incorporated other viewpoints as they are justifiable, and rejected others when I find them lacking. I'll maintain disagreement, but as a reiteration of the "in my view, this is how things are. You have not done enough to change that" which I respect that in others as well (at the end of the day, I'm only making a point with every limitation inherent to that scenario.)
I don't make that qualification with every post, though you'd probably agree that would get somewhat tedious for all concerned.
I saw it on every character except for low-level Romulans and Remans. The maps were Starfleet Academy, Klingon Academy, and Earth Spacedock. As far as I can tell, the bug wasn't faction-specific. I saw it on my level 60 Romulan character, but not on the low-level ones, probably because of differences in character progression.
I saw it once on Starfleet academy with a FED character, no other maps yet that I've been logging in on though I'll check by ESD and the Klingon academy to see if I can repro those.
As for wanting to have a different discussion and trying to make this thread what you want it to be, I might accuse you of the same thing. From what I've observed, you've been trying to manufacture a "consensus" and steer this thread in your preferred direction this entire time. Well, some of us refuse to be steered. Look, I think it's fine if you disagree with me, and I think it's fine if other people disagree with me. But I don't appreciate your attempts to make it seem as if your view is the consensus view. Let everyone have their say. We don't all have to agree.
Steering to the effect of "keep it passably level so me and others can have some kind of a functional dialog," yeah that's a real problem. Ie. sort through the facts as best we can, look at how people feel about this, and then say "okay, what's the best argument we can make to Cryptic?" as a synthesis that stands next to whatever others may be working on for themselves (with or without disagreement, it doesn't matter.) This is not about a consensus among the forum (once again, disagreement is not an issue) but just doing due diligence in constructing an argument outside of an individual setting.
If you have an issue with that, I personally don't care. I'll further note that this damn well is a tangent from the landing page. I've done more than any poster should to justify why they do what they do and if you (or Pottsey) still have an issue with me then I'll give you the same advice that Starsword gave me and that's "report for a TOU violation or move on." I dove back in here with specific points RE. the landing page and it's good that we've been able to touch on the pop-up frequency (I wasn't aware that was still an issue under some circumstances and I'll try to contribute to the troubleshooting effort.) That wasn't all though, but the rest is of course "take it or leave it, it's just something said by me."
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
“That's selective reasoning, ie. a logical fallacy that undermines the quality of your argument. You can do better. The transwarp symbol is available after you've queued the mission. Take the full process into account to make a valid comparison. Landing page is either faster or comparable to other methods (depending on auto-hail) for queuing the latest episodes (though those carry additional costs and drawbacks) as quantified (by step number) in my previous post.
You said something that was not accurate. Deal with it and move on.”
As before you are need to apply that to your shelf. What you said was a logical fallacy that undermines the quality of your argument. You are using selective reasoning to ignore your mistakes and trying to deflect away that you said something that is not accurate. Why don’t you stop undermining you own argument and correct your faulty assumptions on how things work?
When you are running a chain of missions as soon as it’s finished the next mission pops up without going into the journal. It is then the active mission and so appears with the transwarp short cut key right away on the right of the screen. You never have to mess around with the J -> Episode Tab -> Hail -> Accept -> and so on steps. Its single click, accept. That’s all there is to it. Far faster and easier then the landing page.
You also completely ignored that I pointed out what you said about the landing page is incorrect. The landing page does not update to the next mission in the chain and so cannot be used in the way you describe. Which invalidates your point and shows it’s you who has the faulty logic not me. The only thing the landing page does it show the feature episodes and once played that’s irrelevant information. Outside of the feature episode you cannot use the landing page to work through a chain of missions or as a replacement for the transwarp to the chain of missions. Even with the feature episode as soon as you finish one the next one automatically pops up and the mini tranwarp symbol automatically shows in on the right of the screen by default (unless you moved the area it appears). Which is faster and easier then the landing page and has no cost most of the time.
When you are running a chain of missions as soon as it’s finished the next mission pops up without going into the journal. It is then the active mission and so appears with the transwarp short cut key right away on the right of the screen. You never have to mess around with the J -> Episode Tab -> Hail -> Accept -> and so on steps. Its single click, accept. That’s all there is to it. Far faster and easier then the landing page.
You also completely ignored that I pointed out what you said about the landing page is incorrect. The landing page does not update to the next mission in the chain and so cannot be used in the way you describe. Which invalidates your point and shows it’s you who has the faulty logic not me. The only thing the landing page does it show the feature episodes and once played that’s irrelevant information. Outside of the feature episode you cannot use the landing page to work through a chain of mission or as a replacement for the transwarp to the chain of missions.
Note the word: auto-hail. This is the term used to describe pop-up briefings for your next mission on completion of the previous as designated by the option to disable. I addressed this quite openly in my first reply to your "half-second" estimate and accounted for it. You have completely ignored this line (ongoing for two posts) to maintain a very selective form of disagreement. I won't entertain this argument further, I recommend you simply go back and thoroughly read what I posted if you have an interest in related discussion (it's not worth our time otherwise.)
If not, no worries; but here's the line for further replies.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
When you are running a chain of missions as soon as it’s finished the next mission pops up without going into the journal. It is then the active mission and so appears with the transwarp short cut key right away on the right of the screen. You never have to mess around with the J -> Episode Tab -> Hail -> Accept -> and so on steps. Its single click, accept. That’s all there is to it. Far faster and easier then the landing page.
You also completely ignored that I pointed out what you said about the landing page is incorrect. The landing page does not update to the next mission in the chain and so cannot be used in the way you describe. Which invalidates your point and shows it’s you who has the faulty logic not me. The only thing the landing page does it show the feature episodes and once played that’s irrelevant information. Outside of the feature episode you cannot use the landing page to work through a chain of mission or as a replacement for the transwarp to the chain of missions.
Note the word: auto-hail. This is the term used to describe pop-up briefings for your next mission on completion of the previous as designated by the option to disable. I addressed this quite openly in my first reply to your "half-second" estimate. You have completely ignored this line (ongoing for two posts) to maintain a very selective form of disagreement. I won't entertain your attempted contradiction here further, I recommend you simply go back and thoroughly read what I posted if you have an interest in related discussion.
If not, no worries, but here's the line if you want to expect further replies.
Your steps and to quote “the J -> Episode Tab -> Hail ->” anyway talk about selective reasoning to ignore your mistakes. So you are going deflect away over something minor to skip over your very large mistake about the landing page instead of acknowledging it! Clearly you are not interested in a logical beneficial discussion. You really need to take a step back and looks at your own posts. All this policing and criticism you level at everyone else applies much stronger to you then the people you are aiming at.
The landing page does not work how you describe and cannot be used to work though the games chain of missions via transwarp.
Your steps and to quote “the J -> Episode Tab -> Hail ->” anyway talk about selective reasoning to ignore your mistakes. So you are going deflect away over something minor to skip over your very large mistake about the landing page instead of acknowledging it! Clearly you are not interested in a logical beneficial discussion. You really need to take a step back and looks at your own posts. All this policing and criticism you level at everyone else applies much stronger to you then the people you are aiming at.
Read full post, final warning.
You can short cut the "normal method" by enabling mission auto-hail (ie. another pop-up). However, this only brings it in rough line with the landing page . There's no esc-key but there's much more mouse travel to compensate). It will roughly take two seconds.
Landing page is either faster or comparable to other methods (depending on auto-hail) for queuing the latest episodes (though those carry additional costs and drawbacks) as quantified (by step number) in my previous post.
The landing page does not work how you describe and cannot be used to work though the games chain of missions via transwarp.
And this is simply incorrect. I use the landing page as described and I've been careful to elaborate on how. You can attempt to repro yourself and document any inconsistencies you come across. We could have a discussion on that to reconcile the differences in what we've found. Or, you could simply try to contradict me again with overly vague statements that hinge on a conflict of personalities.
I'll throw that with "not reading."
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Oh my, what a long and heated thread this has become.
Personally, despite some valiant (and some less valiant) attempts at 'white-knighting' the new landing page, let's face it, it's basically just a glorified advertising/promo screen, whose sole usefulness lies in its ability to be closed.
Your steps and to quote “the J -> Episode Tab -> Hail ->” anyway talk about selective reasoning to ignore your mistakes. So you are going deflect away over something minor to skip over your very large mistake about the landing page instead of acknowledging it! Clearly you are not interested in a logical beneficial discussion. You really need to take a step back and looks at your own posts. All this policing and criticism you level at everyone else applies much stronger to you then the people you are aiming at.
Read full post, final warning.
You can short cut the "normal method" by enabling mission auto-hail (ie. another pop-up). However, this only brings it in rough line with the landing page . There's no esc-key but there's much more mouse travel to compensate). It will roughly take two seconds.
Landing page is either faster or comparable to other methods (depending on auto-hail) for queuing the latest episodes (though those carry additional costs and drawbacks) as quantified (by step number) in my previous post.
The landing page does not work how you describe and cannot be used to work though the games chain of missions via transwarp.
And this is simply incorrect. I use the landing page as described and I've been careful to elaborate on how. You can attempt to repro yourself and document any inconsistencies you come across. We could have a discussion on that to reconcile the differences in what we've found. Or, you could simply try to contradict me again with overly vague statements that hinge on a conflict of personalities.
I'll throw that with "not reading."
Why do you always try and deflect away from discussion instead of having a logical debate or admitting mistakes? My statements are not vague they are more than detailed enough which is the landing page does not track missions outside the feature episodes so outside the feature episodes you cannot use the landing page to transwarp though a chain of missions in the way you describe as an alternative to the other methods. So not only are you wrong but as you would say your logical fallacy undermines the quality of your argument.
Once the feature episodes are done the landing page information and transwarp is irrelevant. Plus, when the next mission is active the shortcut transwarp symbol is faster and easier than the landing page and free when working though missions in order right after each other. You can use the symbol with as little as 1 mouse click to reach your target area which for someone like me with bad joints is far better than messing around with the landing screen which has more key press's, more mouse tracking and doesn’t even transwarp me to the correct next mission.
Personally, despite some valiant (and some less valiant) attempts at 'white-knighting' the new landing page, let's face it, it's basically just a glorified advertising/promo screen, whose sole usefulness lies in its ability to be closed.
Hit the nail on the head there. I'm getting very tired of seeing it. I have 29 characters to manage on my acc so i have to see it 30 times minimum a day when i log in and reset admiralty/r&d/doffing/unfinished reps and refine my dilithium.
But as mentioned before PWE don't give a flying feck about whether
A. It annoys their customers or
B. If it is a working piece of software
They got it programmed into the game so job done as far as they concerned. Sweep it under the carpet with all the other known and unfixed bugs in the game
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
Oh my, what a long and heated thread this has become.
Personally, despite some valiant (and some less valiant) attempts at 'white-knighting' the new landing page, let's face it, it's basically just a glorified advertising/promo screen, whose sole usefulness lies in its ability to be closed.
Completely.
This sort of this should, if they insist on having it, be on the start page. Then we all see it when we open up STO but don't have it pop up constantly each time we log in/out of a toon.
A heck of a lot of other MMOs and online games have "adverts" like this thing on the start page before you pick your character, or load into the game proper. Why not do that here, not like the login page is particularly exciting or well used anyway.
Having it pop up every single time you swap toons and "log in" is just annoying and cheap and screams crappy pop up website ad.
Personally, despite some valiant (and some less valiant) attempts at 'white-knighting' the new landing page, let's face it, it's basically just a glorified advertising/promo screen, whose sole usefulness lies in its ability to be closed.
Yeah, that's not accurate (as a total statement without further personal qualifications. I know what they are and can read intent accordingly but because you put this a certain way we are going to have a discussion here. )
Transwarp from landing page for new missions is 1. a landing page function (whether or not you chose to use it, it's a thing that exist) and 2. has benefits over the conventional method for queuing next missions (no auto-hail pop-ups, no EC cost). The landing page is also annoying for many as the mechanical convenience in one circumstance doesn't make the initial pop-up, menu displacement, and irrelevant graphics any less unwanted for those who would rather not deal with it. The LP short cut is simply something to note because if there are substantial updates (which I'm hopeful for) then that's something some would want preserved (with a PSA that people can take advantage of it now if they wish.) It's not a reason to keep the landing page as is.
Oi, some days...
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
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Personally, despite some valiant (and some less valiant) attempts at 'white-knighting' the new landing page, let's face it, it's basically just a glorified advertising/promo screen, whose sole usefulness lies in its ability to be closed.
Yeah, that's not accurate (as a total statement without further personal qualifications. I know what they are and can read intent accordingly but because you put this a certain way we are going to have a discussion here.)
Transwarp from landing page for new missions is 1. a landing page function (whether or not you chose to use it, it's a thing that exist) and 2. has benefits over the conventional method for queuing next missions (no auto-hail pop-ups, no EC cost). The landing page is also annoying for many as the mechanical convenience in one circumstance doesn't make the initial pop-up, menu displacement, and irrelevant graphics any less unwanted for those who would rather not deal with it. The LP short cut is simply something to note because if there are substantial updates (which I'm hopeful for) then that's something some would want preserved (with a PSA that people can take advantage of it now if they wish.) It's not a reason to keep the landing page as is.
Oi, some days...
Not only is that not accurate its selective reasoning. Try harder.
You know I did what you asked and went back to thoroughly read what you posted throughout this thread and notice a common theme. A large amount of times you have made mistakes, some major mistakes at that. But you do not acknowledge those mistakes instead you either ignore them and pretend they didn’t happen or try and deflect away from them with the silly little comments you like to make which are so transparent.
Looking back its clear you are one of those people who cannot have productive conversations with logical debates and you either cannot or struggle to admit mistakes. There is little point trying to have a dissuasion with you being like that. I have my suspicion on why you are posting like you are.
I expect this will fall on deaf ears but you really need to take a step back and look at your own posts. You keep doing what you accuse other people off.
guys, check t he date. the post is unpinned, they're not interested anymore.
Pssst, they never were.
Not in haters endlessly me tooing each others' demands for it to be removed, no. Nor the pointless complaints over the buttons in the ESC menu being moved slightly to the left.
OTOH they did listen to the useful feedback, such as adding the Mirror event to it.
OTOH they did listen to the useful feedback, such as adding the Mirror event to it.
I'm curious if updating what mission appears based on personal completion was a part of the original landing page. Probably but we only had the one new episode.
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Personally, despite some valiant (and some less valiant) attempts at 'white-knighting' the new landing page, let's face it, it's basically just a glorified advertising/promo screen, whose sole usefulness lies in its ability to be closed.
Hit the nail on the head there. I'm getting very tired of seeing it. I have 29 characters to manage on my acc so i have to see it 30 times minimum a day when i log in and reset admiralty/r&d/doffing/unfinished reps and refine my dilithium.
But as mentioned before PWE don't give a flying feck about whether
A. It annoys their customers or
B. If it is a working piece of software
They got it programmed into the game so job done as far as they concerned. Sweep it under the carpet with all the other known and unfixed bugs in the game
Thinking back to Sunday I was left with a similar experience although across two alts not as many as you. Like you I was doing admiralty/R&D/doffs and working on the vanguard reps so I must have seen the splash at least 30 times in one day. Not only did the splash feel very redundant it added a negative feel to the days STO session. Along with its other problems.
Anyway off to the mobile forum feedback page. I keep missing posts with the mobile test forums.
guys, check t he date. the post is unpinned, they're not interested anymore.
Pssst, they never were.
Not in haters endlessly me tooing each others' demands for it to be removed, no.
Um, why not?! So, you're saying they'll only take the landing page feedback when we applaud it?! Or when we like stuff added to it? And that people wanting it removed, en masse, or even hating it, is not the feedback they were looking for?!
Comments
Yes, please!
Now there's a concept PWE doesn't seem to grasp! Remember how many missions were removed from the game a while back? If they could remove the launcher, they probably would have a long time ago, like when they gave up on attempting to fix it.
Pssst, they never were.
Oh? Here's the "normal method."
J -> Episode Tab -> Hail -> Accept -> Transwarp (-35,000ec) -> OK
Here's the landing page method.
Esc-> Play now -> Accept (instant transwarp, no cost)
That's two seconds, two clicks (compared to five) and involves considerably less mouse travel (both clicks in the LP method are centered). You can short cut the "normal method" by enabling mission auto-hail (ie. another pop-up). However, this only brings it in rough line with the landing page . There's no esc-key but there's much more mouse travel to compensate). It will roughly take two seconds. Note then you said "half a second." Simple response: do better in future to hold to a factual debate.
Further drawbacks of the normal method (with auto-hail) include the ec cost (it's a thing, however marginal), the annoyance of a pop-up with every mission completed, and separation of contact briefing from playthrough if you don't start the next episode right away. Opting for the landing page over auto-hail offers more control over when you get that briefing.
Now of course you don't need to use the slightly more optimal, and cheaper, method for queuing first time playthroughs. However, note that other people might and that can have an effect over their level of frustration RE. the landing page. The benefits above outweigh for me, personally, the minor issue of a few extra graphics. Don't worry, that doesn't mean that those people (ie. me) aren't supportive of changes you'd like to see. It simply means that motivating factors have changed. I'd like to see improvements made for their objective mechanical benefit, I'm not looking for Cryptic to cure my frustration in this respect.
So when I say "the landing page is less frustrating, personally" don't take that as a challenge which you have to rush to a contradiction to (and resort to bad estimates to keep step.) It's where I am. You do you.
I think enough has been said regardless for Cryptic to get a sense of where the forum community is on the landing page. It is, after all, a simple UI prompt and we covered the major points of feedback quite early in this discussion.
Bumping this thread won't offer new data that could inform and potentially change their decision making. It'll simply restate a point that can be reached through very simple deduction, ie. that some people are very unhappy with the page given that it hasn't been removed or made optional.
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This method is also more reliable as it’s always the next mission in the chain. Unlike the landing screen which gives you the wrong mission more often than not. For example for me right now the splash screen wants me to replay a mission I finished yesterday not the next mission I need to do.
The splash screen is not giving me more control, it’s useless compared to the alternative. The facts you are making up about it auto-updates to the next recent mission are just not true. The landing page doesn’t show the next episode like you say. It shows the feature episodes which is a major difference as once played its irreverent information with a useless transwarp to the wrong area of where I need to be.
Typical and just what I expect from you. As I said before take really need to take your own advice.
Yet again you are incorrect. Weight of information even when it’s the same feedback already said by other people is in of itself useful feedback. A large group of people restating a simple point reached though simple deduction has very different meaning from a small group doing it.
This is why I am so against you trying to police this thread and you jumping on everyone saying the same thing. What you have been doing throughout this thread is bad and unhelpful for useful feedback.
That's selective reasoning, ie. a logical fallacy that undermines the quality of your argument. You can do better. The transwarp symbol is available after you've queued the mission. Take the full process into account to make a valid comparison. Landing page is either faster or comparable to other methods (depending on auto-hail) for queuing the latest episodes (though those carry additional costs and drawbacks) as quantified (by step number) in my previous post.
You said something that was not accurate. Deal with it and move on.
I didn't say it was giving you more control. I'm benefiting from this aspect of the page and providing feedback accordingly. I get quick queuing of the latest episodes without being bombarded by mission auto-hails (ie. pop ups) with every completion or paying an EC cost (which does add up over time.)
You jumped on me here. Check the posts. I said something positive about the landing page (though again: don't mistake that for a full endorsement. I stand by my previous criticisms and suggestions, though I didn't think that was necessary to spell out so directly) in a reply to other people that sought to provide some added perspective to help avoid the thread becoming wholly self-assured. Ie. I was discussing things. And you thought that was sufficient to launch into another contradiction run (for personal reasons, as you stated) irrespective of (to be completely frank) most of what I've been saying (you don't seem to be trying to process much before replying. PS. I haven't ever seen the landing page queue up the wrong episode from the ViL set.)
Never mind that by me posting recent developments, challenging current feedback to step up to evolving circumstance (so it can be better), and thereby bringing this thread back to the top of the first page. You don't want this kind of critical feedback spoiling what you want this thread to be doing (well apart from level, productive conversation), as you've explained in your last two posts. (Oi...)
Remember: we've both been advocating for constructive changes to the landing page on similar lines. I'm simply becoming less frustrated with the landing page under VIL (for specifically cited reasons) and therefore see potential problems with using frustration as the argumentative keystone for landing page changes (as if the situation now is entirely the same as when the landing page first hit.) It may become much less persuasive a force over time as the population grow used to the landing page, circumstances change (ie. big content drops and events happen), and smaller iterative changes are made to provide more short cuts and updates (without the more substantial changes we've both been advocating for.) Other approaches are needed to make sure landing page feedback remains relevant.
(Though we'll see whether or not you recognize the complimentary interests there. I don't think so but you may surprise me.)
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I thought I was reasonably clear, but I'll repeat myself in different words in case you've misunderstood. On Thursday night and Friday morning, every time I ran the game client, I saw the "Welcome Back" window on every character I logged on to (except for low-level Romulan-faction toons). Since other people reported the same thing, it definitely wasn't just me. There was no selective reinterpretation; it was clearly bugged. If you didn't see it, maybe you logged on after they changed something. I'm no longer seeing the "Welcome Back" window on every character, and I'm pretty sure I've done nothing on my end to change that. I'm starting to think it's a server-side switch that has to be flipped manually after every maintenance. If so, that's clearly error-prone, and they should fix it.
The landing page on the main menu is a separate issue. Yes, the number of times one brings up the main menu is variable. But if I log on to N characters per day, then I see it at least N times (N-1 times for each character swap and once more when I log out of the last character). There's no reason to show the user the landing page that many times per day. Moreover, it doesn't really belong on the main menu. When someone is trying to switch characters, log out, exit the game, rearrange the HUD, or change the game's options, chances are they aren't looking to buy keys. Nor are they looking to play a mission. They have a specific task they are trying to accomplish, and a huge landing page that is unrelated to that task is an unwelcome distraction.
I'm not really sure why you think feedback should be objective. With the exception of bug reports (see above), feedback is by its very nature about opinions and therefore subjective. I've opposed the landing page being on the main menu from the beginning, and so have other people. Others don't mind. There is no consensus. There's no sliding scale and no circling back. Those of us who oppose the landing page being on the main menu have never agreed with it in the first place. There is no consensus, nor does there need to be one. People should be free to disagree and post their different opinions.
I saw it on every character except for low-level Romulans and Remans. The maps were Starfleet Academy, Klingon Academy, and Earth Spacedock. As far as I can tell, the bug wasn't faction-specific. I saw it on my level 60 Romulan character, but not on the low-level ones, probably because of differences in character progression.
I don't understand. You're not going file another lawsuit regarding your complaints about the landing page???
As for wanting to have a different discussion and trying to make this thread what you want it to be, I might accuse you of the same thing. From what I've observed, you've been trying to manufacture a "consensus" and steer this thread in your preferred direction this entire time. Well, some of us refuse to be steered. Look, I think it's fine if you disagree with me, and I think it's fine if other people disagree with me. But I don't appreciate your attempts to make it seem as if your view is the consensus view. Let everyone have their say. We don't all have to agree.
QFT. The above paragraph should be branded in mirror writing on the forehead of the Marketing droid who thought the ESC menu integrated version up, so he would be forced to see it every time he looks in a mirror...just like we have to see the blasted thing every time we try to use the ESC menu.
See. previous suggestion: incorporate the landing page with the main mission journal (the latter performed similar functions and is a more intuitive home for content exploration, though could use an update.) I've been an advocate for this.
So have I. See. thread. People are free to disagree. See my explicit statements to that effect around this discussion and others on the forums. What more do I need to say to get that point across? Objective feedback is a process where you not only use your personal but some factual frame of reference that can place a subjective viewpoint in a wider context. It will never truly be objective but what we have in the English language is simply a reference to a less subjective approach to thinking.
I see this as important in feedback because an entirely subjective approach can miss major constraints and other interests. Therefore, it can refine what's asked to accommodate what's possible and what people besides oneself are concerned, and in so doing resulting in more actionable suggestions. This is not a bad thing and built into the fundamental compromise of attempting objectivity from a subjective viewpoint is the qualification "in my view, this is how things are." I've engaged in discussions attempting to refine that, incorporated other viewpoints as they are justifiable, and rejected others when I find them lacking. I'll maintain disagreement, but as a reiteration of the "in my view, this is how things are. You have not done enough to change that" which I respect that in others as well (at the end of the day, I'm only making a point with every limitation inherent to that scenario.)
I don't make that qualification with every post, though you'd probably agree that would get somewhat tedious for all concerned.
I saw it once on Starfleet academy with a FED character, no other maps yet that I've been logging in on though I'll check by ESD and the Klingon academy to see if I can repro those.
Steering to the effect of "keep it passably level so me and others can have some kind of a functional dialog," yeah that's a real problem. Ie. sort through the facts as best we can, look at how people feel about this, and then say "okay, what's the best argument we can make to Cryptic?" as a synthesis that stands next to whatever others may be working on for themselves (with or without disagreement, it doesn't matter.) This is not about a consensus among the forum (once again, disagreement is not an issue) but just doing due diligence in constructing an argument outside of an individual setting.
If you have an issue with that, I personally don't care. I'll further note that this damn well is a tangent from the landing page. I've done more than any poster should to justify why they do what they do and if you (or Pottsey) still have an issue with me then I'll give you the same advice that Starsword gave me and that's "report for a TOU violation or move on." I dove back in here with specific points RE. the landing page and it's good that we've been able to touch on the pop-up frequency (I wasn't aware that was still an issue under some circumstances and I'll try to contribute to the troubleshooting effort.) That wasn't all though, but the rest is of course "take it or leave it, it's just something said by me."
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When you are running a chain of missions as soon as it’s finished the next mission pops up without going into the journal. It is then the active mission and so appears with the transwarp short cut key right away on the right of the screen. You never have to mess around with the J -> Episode Tab -> Hail -> Accept -> and so on steps. Its single click, accept. That’s all there is to it. Far faster and easier then the landing page.
You also completely ignored that I pointed out what you said about the landing page is incorrect. The landing page does not update to the next mission in the chain and so cannot be used in the way you describe. Which invalidates your point and shows it’s you who has the faulty logic not me. The only thing the landing page does it show the feature episodes and once played that’s irrelevant information. Outside of the feature episode you cannot use the landing page to work through a chain of missions or as a replacement for the transwarp to the chain of missions. Even with the feature episode as soon as you finish one the next one automatically pops up and the mini tranwarp symbol automatically shows in on the right of the screen by default (unless you moved the area it appears). Which is faster and easier then the landing page and has no cost most of the time.
Note the word: auto-hail. This is the term used to describe pop-up briefings for your next mission on completion of the previous as designated by the option to disable. I addressed this quite openly in my first reply to your "half-second" estimate and accounted for it. You have completely ignored this line (ongoing for two posts) to maintain a very selective form of disagreement. I won't entertain this argument further, I recommend you simply go back and thoroughly read what I posted if you have an interest in related discussion (it's not worth our time otherwise.)
If not, no worries; but here's the line for further replies.
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The landing page does not work how you describe and cannot be used to work though the games chain of missions via transwarp.
Read full post, final warning.
And this is simply incorrect. I use the landing page as described and I've been careful to elaborate on how. You can attempt to repro yourself and document any inconsistencies you come across. We could have a discussion on that to reconcile the differences in what we've found. Or, you could simply try to contradict me again with overly vague statements that hinge on a conflict of personalities.
I'll throw that with "not reading."
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Personally, despite some valiant (and some less valiant) attempts at 'white-knighting' the new landing page, let's face it, it's basically just a glorified advertising/promo screen, whose sole usefulness lies in its ability to be closed.
Once the feature episodes are done the landing page information and transwarp is irrelevant. Plus, when the next mission is active the shortcut transwarp symbol is faster and easier than the landing page and free when working though missions in order right after each other. You can use the symbol with as little as 1 mouse click to reach your target area which for someone like me with bad joints is far better than messing around with the landing screen which has more key press's, more mouse tracking and doesn’t even transwarp me to the correct next mission.
Hit the nail on the head there. I'm getting very tired of seeing it. I have 29 characters to manage on my acc so i have to see it 30 times minimum a day when i log in and reset admiralty/r&d/doffing/unfinished reps and refine my dilithium.
But as mentioned before PWE don't give a flying feck about whether
A. It annoys their customers or
B. If it is a working piece of software
They got it programmed into the game so job done as far as they concerned. Sweep it under the carpet with all the other known and unfixed bugs in the game
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
Completely.
This sort of this should, if they insist on having it, be on the start page. Then we all see it when we open up STO but don't have it pop up constantly each time we log in/out of a toon.
A heck of a lot of other MMOs and online games have "adverts" like this thing on the start page before you pick your character, or load into the game proper. Why not do that here, not like the login page is particularly exciting or well used anyway.
Having it pop up every single time you swap toons and "log in" is just annoying and cheap and screams crappy pop up website ad.
Yeah, that's not accurate (as a total statement without further personal qualifications. I know what they are and can read intent accordingly but because you put this a certain way we are going to have a discussion here.
Transwarp from landing page for new missions is 1. a landing page function (whether or not you chose to use it, it's a thing that exist) and 2. has benefits over the conventional method for queuing next missions (no auto-hail pop-ups, no EC cost). The landing page is also annoying for many as the mechanical convenience in one circumstance doesn't make the initial pop-up, menu displacement, and irrelevant graphics any less unwanted for those who would rather not deal with it. The LP short cut is simply something to note because if there are substantial updates (which I'm hopeful for) then that's something some would want preserved (with a PSA that people can take advantage of it now if they wish.) It's not a reason to keep the landing page as is.
Oi, some days...
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You know I did what you asked and went back to thoroughly read what you posted throughout this thread and notice a common theme. A large amount of times you have made mistakes, some major mistakes at that. But you do not acknowledge those mistakes instead you either ignore them and pretend they didn’t happen or try and deflect away from them with the silly little comments you like to make which are so transparent.
Looking back its clear you are one of those people who cannot have productive conversations with logical debates and you either cannot or struggle to admit mistakes. There is little point trying to have a dissuasion with you being like that. I have my suspicion on why you are posting like you are.
I expect this will fall on deaf ears but you really need to take a step back and look at your own posts. You keep doing what you accuse other people off.
OTOH they did listen to the useful feedback, such as adding the Mirror event to it.
I'm curious if updating what mission appears based on personal completion was a part of the original landing page. Probably but we only had the one new episode.
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Anyway off to the mobile forum feedback page. I keep missing posts with the mobile test forums.
Um, why not?! So, you're saying they'll only take the landing page feedback when we applaud it?! Or when we like stuff added to it? And that people wanting it removed, en masse, or even hating it, is not the feedback they were looking for?!
Pssst, that's not how feedback works.