yeah, they really should...SC has already proven that there are plenty of morons out there willing to drop up to 5K on some ships from a random, no-name IP - imagine what similar morons will pay for ships from a well-known one?
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
The writing is on the wall, regardless of peoples' individual stances on the subject, Cryptic should really start looking into a replacement for the current system. Maybe they should try going the Star Citizen route and replace crate ships with $200 ships.
It could work, but only if those $200 ships were one-time purchases that could be sold on the exchange like with lockbox and lobi ships.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
> @silverlobes#2676 said: > usskentucky wrote: » > > Ha! You couldn’t even describe the lockbox system without using the phrase “take the gamble.” > > > > Because I don't know of any other suitable expression in the English Language to use! If there is a better one, please tell me. Criticizing the semantics of a fragment my statement, doesn't mean you've disproved my statement, it just shows you up as a pedant without a valid argument > If getting liquored up causes people to drop more cash gambling, then what does being 51% of the way to a lobi item do to a lockbox opener? > > > > Absolute Strawman, not to mention you're pulling a percentage out of your aft-shuttlebay! I'm not sure what's funnier: That you think you've made a valid point, or that you think it's actually worthy of acknowledgement for rebuttal > > I understand that you don't understand that Lock Boxes are not gambling, even though the dictionary definition can be applied to them. Yes, an element of chance is involved. But there is no gambling/wagering involved, because there is no Risk of Loss involved. There is always Something Recieved. The player literally cannot lose. Get it? They may not win the Grand Prize, but they definitely Do Not Lose anything. At the very least, they are converting 125 EC into 3 Lobi Crystals. That's not a 'gamble', that's a lossless currency conversion. Get it?? Seriously, you have no argument
Why don’t you go look up the words gambling, pedant, strawman, and valid? You don’t seem to understand what they mean. You also do yourself a disservice resorting to ad hominem attacks when unable to prove your point. But it’s hard to prove a point when you are bound to a presumption which conveniently allows you to sidestep the moral question of lockboxes and the harm they do to certain segments of the STO community, namely children, the mentally ill, and gambling addicts.
Some ideas I've had, and a refinement of my previously mentioned ideas:
I'd suggest a revamp of the currencies, making Latinum a Premium currency which can only be purchased direct from Cryptic with cash, and with a Latinum Store of goodies which are character bind on Purchase. By all means keep the current dil to zen exchange so that some stuff is grindable, but by having stuff (say stuff like the Lobi ships) which is literally a cash-only purchase, it would prevent any kind of flipping on the exchange, meaning that players can't grind it and would have to buy it outright, and by being character bind on purchase, it would mean that SpaceRich can't buy it and flip it on the exchange for EC, thus the items would always maintain their desirability/exclusivity as Prestige Cash Items.
Lock Boxes are to be re-branded as Lobi Boxes, with set Lobi Crystals every time, to be tiered at normal, rare, and very rare.
Normal requires a Master Key to open, and contains 3 Lobi Crystals, and a random selection of items, equalling 3 uncommon, 2 rare, and one very rare item.
Rare requires a Medium Master Key to open, and will contain 6 Lobi Crystals, and a random selection of items, equalling 3 rare, 2 very rare and one ultra rare item.
Very rare requires a Large Master Key to open, and will contain 9 Lobi Crystals, and a random selection of items equalling 3 very rare, two ultra rare, and one epic item.
Lobi Boxes will not contain ships. Lobi Boxes will contain themed items such as weapons, traits, boosts etc, and will be a from a pre-determined (and advertized on Cryptic's homepage) list, and all items can be exchange flippable as is currently the case.
Other assorted purchases should be available such as cross-faction boffs. Either as exchange officers, who will wear the host faction's uniforms, or, as per the current situation with Romulan Embassy boffs, who are limited to Romulan visuals. These will include all F2P playable and boff-selectable races.
Universal boffs, who can be trained with ground skills for any discipline (wouldn't work in space, as the ship wouldn't necessarily accept their combined skills, but on the ground... Rock 'n' Roll...)
Cross faction uniforms unlocks, for example, a Federation-aligned Romulan, will be able to wear a Starfleet uniform.
Worf's sash to be purchasable (cash only) at any time.
House T'Kuvma ridges as a selectable option for Klingons (but only Klingons, not aliengen 'klingons')
Universal Space-Frames at Tiers 1-6, in escort, cruiser and science capabilities, which will allow the player to use ship components from any of their faction's ships (automatic scaling of part sizes) For example: Sovereign saucer with Miranda rollbar and struts with Rhode Island nacelles. Hull strength would be determined by the Tier of the frame, not the native strength of the 'highest Tier component', ergo, the example ship, if at T1, would only have the hull strength of a Miranda, not a Sovereign. Space Frames would be a cash only purchase.
In addition to existing price packs, Zen to be buyable singly. I think the current price packs are good, but they're also too out of line with a ship's zen cost, meaning multiples of a pack must be purchased, which then leaves players with a Zen surplus. Allowing someone to buy Zen singles to 'make up the difference', would allow people to buy exactly what they need for each purchase. Frequent small cumulative sales, tend to add up to more than occasional large spends.
(Having seen a huge number of default boff away teams on Nimbus and Kobalistan, I know some of these customization options wouldn't appeal to some, but I think they would still have appeal for others... )
Post edited by silverlobes#2676 on
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
> @silverlobes#2676 said:
> usskentucky wrote: »
>
> Ha! You couldn’t even describe the lockbox system without using the phrase “take the gamble.”
>
>
>
> Because I don't know of any other suitable expression in the English Language to use! If there is a better one, please tell me. Criticizing the semantics of a fragment my statement, doesn't mean you've disproved my statement, it just shows you up as a pedant without a valid argument
> If getting liquored up causes people to drop more cash gambling, then what does being 51% of the way to a lobi item do to a lockbox opener?
>
>
>
> Absolute Strawman, not to mention you're pulling a percentage out of your aft-shuttlebay! I'm not sure what's funnier: That you think you've made a valid point, or that you think it's actually worthy of acknowledgement for rebuttal
>
> I understand that you don't understand that Lock Boxes are not gambling, even though the dictionary definition can be applied to them. Yes, an element of chance is involved. But there is no gambling/wagering involved, because there is no Risk of Loss involved. There is always Something Recieved. The player literally cannot lose. Get it? They may not win the Grand Prize, but they definitely Do Not Lose anything. At the very least, they are converting 125 EC into 3 Lobi Crystals. That's not a 'gamble', that's a lossless currency conversion. Get it?? Seriously, you have no argument
Why don’t you go look up the words gambling, pedant, strawman, and valid? You don’t seem to understand what they mean. You also do yourself a disservice resorting to ad hominem attacks when unable to prove your point. But it’s hard to prove a point when you are bound to a presumption which conveniently allows you to sidestep the moral question of lockboxes and the harm they do to certain segments of the STO community, namely children, the mentally ill, and gambling addicts.
One large and ignorable ad hom which does not address or refute any of the points I made...
Now go eat some turkey, it's Thanksgiving...
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
You didn’t make any “points.” This conversation isn’t an academic essay. I don’t see anyone in here citing sources or arguing with subject matter expert credentials. Nor do I recognize anyone with the actual power to change things in the game or how it is run. No, everyone in this forum and others are merely fans talking out of their gluteus maximi, arguing from a point of shared experience. You are making proposals and disagreeing or agreeing with others. But you are not, in any way, shape, or form, offering the level of sophistication in your posts needed to shape STO’s reality. If you’ve got it all figured out, and I think you are onto something with taking ships out of lockboxes and making lobi the premium prize, then you need to elevate yourself to a position of actual power. Because now, as things stand, you possess neither the experience needed to judge the merits or my posts, nor the authority needed to dismiss any ideas I choose to present to my fellow fans. Overplaying your hand has made you appear, with your cute little emojis and your (failed) attempts to harness logical fallacies like a giddy college freshman, haughty and unqualified. It’s not that you don’t have good ideas. It’s that everyone has good ideas from time to time. It doesn’t make you special, so you should save the air of superiority for another day, preferably one during which you can celebrate your first real life accomplishment.
You didn’t make any “points.” This conversation isn’t an academic essay. I don’t see anyone in here citing sources or arguing with subject matter expert credentials. Nor do I recognize anyone with the actual power to change things in the game or how it is run. No, everyone in this forum and others are merely fans talking out of their gluteus maximi, arguing from a point of shared experience. You are making proposals and disagreeing or agreeing with others. But you are not, in any way, shape, or form, offering the level of sophistication in your posts needed to shape STO’s reality. If you’ve got it all figured out, and I think you are onto something with taking ships out of lockboxes and making lobi the premium prize, then you need to elevate yourself to a position of actual power. Because now, as things stand, you possess neither the experience needed to judge the merits or my posts, nor the authority needed to dismiss any ideas I choose to present to my fellow fans. Overplaying your hand has made you appear, with your cute little emojis and your (failed) attempts to harness logical fallacies like a giddy college freshman, haughty and unqualified. It’s not that you don’t have good ideas. It’s that everyone has good ideas from time to time. It doesn’t make you special, so you should save the air of superiority for another day, preferably one during which you can celebrate your first real life accomplishment.
And yet another ad hom which completely fails to address any of the specific points I made, either in agreement or rebuttal, but focusses solely on attempting to belittle me and undermine my input to the conversation. It is you, Sir, who comes across as the freshman, spouting nothing but propagandized buzzwords and mouthing faux-concern for the well-being of those you claim to be 'vulnerable', and challenging menot my ideas.
Care to make it three ad homs in a row, and prove that you actually have nothing to contribute to the discussion?
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"Vast majority of gamers" is a bit of a stretch, friend.
EA's failure was that their targeted demographic seemed to be largely unaware or not too familiar with things like time-gated grinds, nor the pay-to-avoid-grind model. Had they been more knowledgeable, they might have responded differently, perhaps with a bit less shock, confusion, and anger. Shock, confusion, and anger, after all, are sadly common responses by the more entitled members of the "gamer sub-culture" when confronted by their own ignorance.
How about vasy majority of the game's playerbase? That is console gamers who paid for the game...not some PC player doing a F2P game. Lockboxes in F2P PvE games is tolerable. In F2P PvP games it's fine if the items are cosemetics or have no mechanical advantage. However BF2 failed on ALL counts. It's NOT a F2P game. It's a PvP game. And those items in lockboxes give MASSIVE mechanical boosts in those PvP matches. Yeah getting a couple heros you want ain't that bad to unlock. But fully leveling them up? That is another story. This was a pure out and out old school P2W model in a PvP game. And when fans complained that this was a stupid model...because it is...the company instead of listening went on the attack on their customers. EA basically did EVERYTHING wrong in this case. Like royally wrong. And the worst part is that other games may end up suffering...and of the politicans think just a little bit, this could be worse...WAY worse and local game shops can be closed down (because seriously, no Magic = no game shops).
They actually don't give "MASSIVE mechanical boosts in PVP"@coldnapalm, trust me I own SWBF2.
You get things like a "2 sec cooldown reduction on a starcard" or other mundane boosts like that; (ex: your themal detonator will be off cooldown in 16 sec instead of 18sec).
Granted I guess its a "little pay2win." But the Reddit crowd have really blown this whole system way out of proportion.
Like I said in an earlier post... One of the major complaints was heroes being locked, and their cost to unlock them. That unlock cost has been reduced by 75%. And I was able to buy 3 heroes after an hour or 2 of multiplayer.
Darth Vader being the first hero I unlocked.
If you're not a complete noob at FPS games you're still on a relatively level playing field even with the big crystal buyers.
There have been a couple of youtube vids posted already of people destroying other fully upgraded players with no loadouts other then their stock blasters.
The Outrage got way out of control imho as a long time gamer. But I don't really blame people at the same time, because EA has F'd up so much in the past, and people have become very resentful towards them.
And tbh it's one of the prettiest Star Wars games I've ever seen in my life, Sound design is incredible as well. It's really is a shame some people will miss out on it due to misinformation and out of control Reddit Outrage Culture.
I'm sorry...but did you just say that a more than 10% cooldown reduction in a PvP game was not that big of an advantage?!? And had the gaul to claim that if you didn't think that was a pretty big advantage that it is because you are noob?!?
(look at STO for a prime example of why).
And I don't care if the game is the prettiest thing EVER. I'm not going to give EA money for behaving badly and being told no by Disney before they did the rightish thing. I'm voting with the only thing a corporation cares about...money. And no, it's not JUST this game...I am voting no over what they did by not getting any more of their games. You can look at the pretty shiney lights if you want...I don't appreciate a vast array of things I enjoy getting threatened because EA decided to get super greedy.
So, you're saying a 2 sec CDR on a nade is a MASSIVE (in Caps-for dramatic effect) mech advantage and is game breaking P2W ? LOL Cause holy TRIBBLE man, there's stuff a million times worse going on here in STO. What are you some kind of hypocrite ?
And you've clearly misunderstood/misread/misinterpreted my statement. Slow down while reading mate.
My point about "noobs" was, a miniscule advantage like an 11.1% percent cooldown on a nade (16 sec instead of 18sec) is not an overwhelming P2W advantage, and anyone who isn't completely "inept/noob" should have no problems surmounting the miniscule advantage.
If you're bad, no starcard is gonna help you here. You even said it yourself.
Point is you can't put skill in a lootcrate/lockbox. And the gains you make for starcards aren't noticeable. But people like you make it seem like theyre crazy out of control.
So your statement of "MASSIVE (in caps-for dramatic effect lol) mechanical advantages" is a completely BS statement from someone who has never even set foot in the game and smacks of the uniformed circle-jerking going on over at reddit and other social media platforms.
But please continue to spread false information.
Whatever though, if you want to believe a meager 11.1% (2secs) cooldown on a nade (as a general example of the p2w) is game breaking P2W, then your definition of MASSIVE is clearly F'd up. What do you call the P2W going on over here in STO in terms of PVP. YUGE ? LMAO, MASSIVELY MASSIVE ??? ASTRONOMICAL ???? LMAO
Talk about being one hell of a hypocrite.
And I'm also gonna call complete BS on your "super P2W advantages" that Heroes get. Its utterly false. I own the actual game and that is far from the case. At least know what you're talking about before making claims. You've never even played it, stop talking like you know it inside and out lol. Or go back to Reddit and perform oral on the other circle-jerkers. Sharpen your pitchfork, call in the neckbeards... You'll be in the fine company of others of your ilk.
No need to watch cause it will just shatter your disillusions; but I'll leave this here for others who are more objective.
STAR WARS Battlefront II - 11 Kill streak with NO Star Cards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjrTvkvpVo
I'll also make a note that it's not actually P2W anyway, everybody will unlock these starcards in time just by playing the game... And no the progression is not as bad as the circle-jerks would have you believe.
I was swimming in starcards after a couple hours playing.
You can also craft any card you want with crafting materials. So, yeah. Controversy blown way out of proportion...because it's SW, and EA.
Popular social punching bags.
If people cared about Trek as much as SW, STO would be the one in the crosshairs right now.
I said it years back and I'm still saying it today... Lock boxes are gambling, and Cryptic studio's is just as bad as EA is about how players are manipulated into buying keys for them..
When someone wins the rare uber ship from one, it gets announced in game right in the middle of your screen (unless your in combat) STO version of flashing lights at a casino when someone win big at slots.. Cryptic took their lead from activision handling of loot boxes in china when Activision did NOT want to reveal the loot table odds (required by PRC law) but that's because Activision was constantly changing the drop rates.. (which Cryptic also does). Selling loot box keys is by far Cryptic studio's biggest cash earner and drop rates are manipulated to drive key sales. It's a predatory business practice of a type that licenced CASINO'S are not permitted to do anywhere on this planet, But a gameing studio. and publisher can get away with it... for now.
I managed to wade through a few pages on this thread and I gotta say most of you need gambling addiction counselling. The amount of justifications I saw in posts to spend a little more money was just beyond words..
I'll make this clear.. I haven't played STO now in a few years. Partially it because I don't have a comp that'll run it any more... A couple years back there was some changes in the game graphics code and it just wont stay stable.. runs a few moments and crashes. I dont' have the spare cash to spend on a computer that'll run it without rolling over and blowing a CPU. And frankly, I'm glad. Cryptic studio's has monitized Star Trek so heavily that I can't stand to play it any more. I don't feel like I playing a star ship captain, I feel like I'm in a casino.
Just because it's "Star Trek" does not make it some sort of holy of holies.. and more the "Star Wars" is. Over the next year as the effects of EA blockheaded greed shakes out and governments across the planet get to regulating the online gaming industry things are going to change. The sort of predatory practices centered around loot crates are going to change.. Studio's will get to keep them but they'll be some long over due disclosure laws, and monitoring to ensure honestly.
The reason you buy loot box keys in STO is to maybe get some cool ship. There really is no other primary reason to buy keys. Anything else is a justification for ones addiction. Cryptic studio's is not honest and forthcoming about it's business practices and how they actively manipulate the customer to get them to spend even more money. There no excuse for it. It's unacceptable. But you as a person, whom ever you are need to do some critical self examination. YOUR the one spending the money on lock box keys. If you cannot control your spending, you need to stop playing STO.
Eventually Star Trek online will shut down. Maybe it'll be replaced with a STO-II, maybe not. Just be aware of how much money you've spent on this game. That money is GONE.. you will have nothing but the memories of what virtual goods you bought and that you got to enjoy for how ever long the game lasts.
Lock Boxes are gambling. And as for the line of no "real World Value" yea, right,, tell it to the ship sellers on E-Bay. As long as the Ship isn't opened, it can be exchanged, sold, traded etc. And why sell it for EC in game when you can sell it for cash outside of the game? Apparently they do have a real world value because people will pay cash for them.
Get the clue folks. And stop acting like a bunh of crack addicts. It's seriously lacking in dignity.
Bet their pretty ticked at EA too because IIRC the retailers have already paid EA for the games, so EA has all their money and their stuck with inventory that nobody wants.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
I said it years back and I'm still saying it today... Lock boxes are gambling, and Cryptic studio's is just as bad as EA is about how players are manipulated into buying keys for them..
When someone wins the rare uber ship from one, it gets announced in game right in the middle of your screen (unless your in combat) STO version of flashing lights at a casino when someone win big at slots.. Cryptic took their lead from activision handling of loot boxes in china when Activision did NOT want to reveal the loot table odds (required by PRC law) but that's because Activision was constantly changing the drop rates.. (which Cryptic also does). Selling loot box keys is by far Cryptic studio's biggest cash earner and drop rates are manipulated to drive key sales. It's a predatory business practice of a type that licenced CASINO'S are not permitted to do anywhere on this planet, But a gameing studio. and publisher can get away with it... for now.
I managed to wade through a few pages on this thread and I gotta say most of you need gambling addiction counselling. The amount of justifications I saw in posts to spend a little more money was just beyond words..
I'll make this clear.. I haven't played STO now in a few years. Partially it because I don't have a comp that'll run it any more... A couple years back there was some changes in the game graphics code and it just wont stay stable.. runs a few moments and crashes. I dont' have the spare cash to spend on a computer that'll run it without rolling over and blowing a CPU. And frankly, I'm glad. Cryptic studio's has monitized Star Trek so heavily that I can't stand to play it any more. I don't feel like I playing a star ship captain, I feel like I'm in a casino.
Just because it's "Star Trek" does not make it some sort of holy of holies.. and more the "Star Wars" is. Over the next year as the effects of EA blockheaded greed shakes out and governments across the planet get to regulating the online gaming industry things are going to change. The sort of predatory practices centered around loot crates are going to change.. Studio's will get to keep them but they'll be some long over due disclosure laws, and monitoring to ensure honestly.
The reason you buy loot box keys in STO is to maybe get some cool ship. There really is no other primary reason to buy keys. Anything else is a justification for ones addiction. Cryptic studio's is not honest and forthcoming about it's business practices and how they actively manipulate the customer to get them to spend even more money. There no excuse for it. It's unacceptable. But you as a person, whom ever you are need to do some critical self examination. YOUR the one spending the money on lock box keys. If you cannot control your spending, you need to stop playing STO.
Eventually Star Trek online will shut down. Maybe it'll be replaced with a STO-II, maybe not. Just be aware of how much money you've spent on this game. That money is GONE.. you will have nothing but the memories of what virtual goods you bought and that you got to enjoy for how ever long the game lasts.
Lock Boxes are gambling. And as for the line of no "real World Value" yea, right,, tell it to the ship sellers on E-Bay. As long as the Ship isn't opened, it can be exchanged, sold, traded etc. And why sell it for EC in game when you can sell it for cash outside of the game? Apparently they do have a real world value because people will pay cash for them.
Get the clue folks. And stop acting like a bunh of crack addicts. It's seriously lacking in dignity.
Kui sends
Not really defending lockboxes here but PWE runs the lock boxes. Not Cryptic. They have no say in the matter.
I said it years back and I'm still saying it today... Lock boxes are gambling, and Cryptic studio's is just as bad as EA is about how players are manipulated into buying keys for them..
When someone wins the rare uber ship from one, it gets announced in game right in the middle of your screen (unless your in combat) STO version of flashing lights at a casino when someone win big at slots.. Cryptic took their lead from activision handling of loot boxes in china when Activision did NOT want to reveal the loot table odds (required by PRC law) but that's because Activision was constantly changing the drop rates.. (which Cryptic also does). Selling loot box keys is by far Cryptic studio's biggest cash earner and drop rates are manipulated to drive key sales. It's a predatory business practice of a type that licenced CASINO'S are not permitted to do anywhere on this planet, But a gameing studio. and publisher can get away with it... for now.
I managed to wade through a few pages on this thread and I gotta say most of you need gambling addiction counselling. The amount of justifications I saw in posts to spend a little more money was just beyond words..
I'll make this clear.. I haven't played STO now in a few years. Partially it because I don't have a comp that'll run it any more... A couple years back there was some changes in the game graphics code and it just wont stay stable.. runs a few moments and crashes. I dont' have the spare cash to spend on a computer that'll run it without rolling over and blowing a CPU. And frankly, I'm glad. Cryptic studio's has monitized Star Trek so heavily that I can't stand to play it any more. I don't feel like I playing a star ship captain, I feel like I'm in a casino.
Just because it's "Star Trek" does not make it some sort of holy of holies.. and more the "Star Wars" is. Over the next year as the effects of EA blockheaded greed shakes out and governments across the planet get to regulating the online gaming industry things are going to change. The sort of predatory practices centered around loot crates are going to change.. Studio's will get to keep them but they'll be some long over due disclosure laws, and monitoring to ensure honestly.
The reason you buy loot box keys in STO is to maybe get some cool ship. There really is no other primary reason to buy keys. Anything else is a justification for ones addiction. Cryptic studio's is not honest and forthcoming about it's business practices and how they actively manipulate the customer to get them to spend even more money. There no excuse for it. It's unacceptable. But you as a person, whom ever you are need to do some critical self examination. YOUR the one spending the money on lock box keys. If you cannot control your spending, you need to stop playing STO.
Eventually Star Trek online will shut down. Maybe it'll be replaced with a STO-II, maybe not. Just be aware of how much money you've spent on this game. That money is GONE.. you will have nothing but the memories of what virtual goods you bought and that you got to enjoy for how ever long the game lasts.
Lock Boxes are gambling. And as for the line of no "real World Value" yea, right,, tell it to the ship sellers on E-Bay. As long as the Ship isn't opened, it can be exchanged, sold, traded etc. And why sell it for EC in game when you can sell it for cash outside of the game? Apparently they do have a real world value because people will pay cash for them.
Get the clue folks. And stop acting like a bunh of crack addicts. It's seriously lacking in dignity.
Kui sends
Not really defending lockboxes here but PWE runs the lock boxes. Not Cryptic. They have no say in the matter.
And unfortunately, they keep the lights on at Cryptic.
Belgium's gaming commission gave out a statement a few days back. According to them, loot boxes are a mixture of money and addiction and a game of chance. Koen Geens, Belgium's Minister of Justice stated, that "mixing gambling and gaming, especially at a young age, is dangerous for the mental health of the child". Geens wants loot boxes banned not only in Belgium, but in Europe and abroad.
I thought it was the duty of the parent or parents to be concerned about the mental health of the child not the government.
So basically your saying that alcohol and tobacco products should be legalized for children. I mean it's the duty of the parent's to keep them safe from that, right?
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
I thought it was the duty of the parent or parents to be concerned about the mental health of the child not the government.
So basically your saying that alcohol and tobacco products should be legalized for children. I mean it's the duty of the parent's to keep them safe from that, right?
So basically your saying that alcohol and tobacco products should be legalized for children. I mean it's the duty of the parent's to keep them safe from that, right?
The issue is predatory marketing designed to take advantage of specific psychological profiles and minors. This goes back to mobile apps with their pay-to-play timegates. Many, many companies say "we need to do this to keep our doors open. We MUST prey on those most vulnerable in order to keep operating" which is kinda... awful. Seriously, this concept is terrible.
Star Trek Online is really bad. Every time someone gets a "super prize", it's announced to the whole server. The lockbox interface has been updated to "feel good to spend keys". The "super prize" gets announced twice in the STO news; once in the Lockbox Blog and a separate "Super Prize" Blog. It is prominent in the launcher window while you are loading up the game.
It's all coldly calculated to prey on people with a specific psychological profile. There are numerous studies on this, and plenty of books in print. Activision is even patenting specific concepts that it plans to put in future games. Currently, none of this is against most laws. I'm glad governments and consumer protection groups are finally starting to look into these awful practices.
As far as STO goes, if the product cannot support itself without preying the most vulnerable, then it is a garbage product and should suffer the fate of being a garbage product.
The most that will happen is slapping an 18+ sticker on the game.
More like 8+...
Redvenge's assessment is off in one very specific way: loot boxes are bought by people with the money to pay for them. Sure there are peeps who are willing to spend 1k a year on stuff like that.... they're also the sort of people who think a thousand dollars is a minor expense. They're called whales because they have the means to afford it. Calling it "predatory marketing" is a false flag. Your so-called victims aren't the people who actually spend the most.
So basically your saying that alcohol and tobacco products should be legalized for children. I mean it's the duty of the parent's to keep them safe from that, right?
The issue is predatory marketing designed to take advantage of specific psychological profiles and minors. This goes back to mobile apps with their pay-to-play timegates. Many, many companies say "we need to do this to keep our doors open. We MUST prey on those most vulnerable in order to keep operating" which is kinda... awful. Seriously, this concept is terrible.
Star Trek Online is really bad. Every time someone gets a "super prize", it's announced to the whole server. The lockbox interface has been updated to "feel good to spend keys". The "super prize" gets announced twice in the STO news; once in the Lockbox Blog and a separate "Super Prize" Blog. It is prominent in the launcher window while you are loading up the game.
It's all coldly calculated to prey on people with a specific psychological profile. There are numerous studies on this, and plenty of books in print. Activision is even patenting specific concepts that it plans to put in future games. Currently, none of this is against most laws. I'm glad governments and consumer protection groups are finally starting to look into these awful practices.
As far as STO goes, if the product cannot support itself without preying the most vulnerable, then it is a garbage product and should suffer the fate of being a garbage product.
Victimhood is a disgusting mindset which doesn't empower, but takes away power.
If someone is so psychologically vulnerable that they can't resist such things, then it's debatable as to if they should even have unsupervized access to such things.
Does Cryptic push the promotion of the Lock Boxes?
Yes.
Why?
Because they're what help pay for this game to keep running!
If someone is vulnerable to such addictive practices, the onus is on them to avoid those things, not for the rest of the world to be deprived of them, due to their lack of self-control or personal accountability.
Just because some guy is an alcoholic, that's no reason for the town to stop selling alcohol to anyone at all, or to try and guilt them (which is exactly what you're trying to do) into feeling bad about wanting to be able to have the option to have a drink, should they want to do so. That some kid might swipe a bottle from their parent's liquor cabinet, is no reason to prevent people having alcohol in their own homes, it's a reason for the parents to raise their kid to know better.
Personal Accountability.
This is a Star Trek MMO, not an online creche...
I doubt any of the hardcore grinders want to start paying a monthly cash subscription, for what they've been getting free for years, so that means that the company which provides us with this game, needs a sustainable revenue stream. It has nothing whatsoever about if something is 'a garbage product' or not, it's a case of devs don't work for free, so Cryptic needs to make money.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
If someone is so psychologically vulnerable that they can't resist such things, then it's debatable as to if they should even have unsupervized access to such things.
You're perfectly right. That's why in most countries the gambling industry is subject to strict regulation and supervision by authorities. You and your familiy can have yourself put on a black list to prevent you from spending all your money in a casino yet again. If everybody had the mindset and capability to combat (or avoid) addiction, there would be no alcoholism, no obesity, no drug abuse.
There's no such safety system in the gaming industry though. Addiction is not monitored but encouraged. Even minors can spend all their money on loot boxes and nothing keeps them from doing it repeatedly.
It is debateable whether loot boxes should be banned or age restricted. But they certainly need to be regulated in some form or fashion, like everything else that can cause addictions.
If someone is so psychologically vulnerable that they can't resist such things, then it's debatable as to if they should even have unsupervized access to such things.
You're perfectly right. That's why in most countries the gambling industry is subject to strict regulation and supervision by authorities. You and your familiy can have yourself put on a black list to prevent you from spending all your money in a casino yet again. If everybody had the mindset and capability to combat (or avoid) addiction, there would be no alcoholism, no obesity, no drug abuse.
There's no such safety system in the gaming industry though. Addiction is not monitored but encouraged. Even minors can spend all their money on loot boxes and nothing keeps them from doing it repeatedly.
It is debateable whether loot boxes should be banned or age restricted. But they certainly need to be regulated in some form or fashion, like everything else that can cause addictions.
For sure, 'regulation', yes, 'prohibition', no. However, as I said several days ago, the issue, is how to create and instate regulations, and the most reasonable safeguards which could be instated, will very likely kill this game.
Having an age-restricted, subscription-only game, is no problem in itself. The issue, aside from the lack of a 100% fool-proof online age verification system, is how it can be applied to this game, as I don't believe people are going to want to pay a subscription, for a game which has been F2P for years, and where anything which could generate cash-revenue, is totally grindable...
Removing Lock Boxes and Keys, for example, would be the easiest step, but Cryptic would need to replace that revenue stream. Dabo would need to become unplayable, because that absolutely is a 100% gamble.
I've already proposed additional ways in which Lock Boxes can be re-branded, and cash-revenue could be generated, but I've mentally resigned myself that this game will very likely close, as a result of this
*SuckItEditMonster
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Comments
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
It could work, but only if those $200 ships were one-time purchases that could be sold on the exchange like with lockbox and lobi ships.
> usskentucky wrote: »
>
> Ha! You couldn’t even describe the lockbox system without using the phrase “take the gamble.”
>
>
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> Because I don't know of any other suitable expression in the English Language to use! If there is a better one, please tell me. Criticizing the semantics of a fragment my statement, doesn't mean you've disproved my statement, it just shows you up as a pedant without a valid argument
> If getting liquored up causes people to drop more cash gambling, then what does being 51% of the way to a lobi item do to a lockbox opener?
>
>
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> Absolute Strawman, not to mention you're pulling a percentage out of your aft-shuttlebay!
>
> I understand that you don't understand that Lock Boxes are not gambling, even though the dictionary definition can be applied to them. Yes, an element of chance is involved. But there is no gambling/wagering involved, because there is no Risk of Loss involved. There is always Something Recieved. The player literally cannot lose. Get it? They may not win the Grand Prize, but they definitely Do Not Lose anything. At the very least, they are converting 125 EC into 3 Lobi Crystals. That's not a 'gamble', that's a lossless currency conversion. Get it?? Seriously, you have no argument
Why don’t you go look up the words gambling, pedant, strawman, and valid? You don’t seem to understand what they mean. You also do yourself a disservice resorting to ad hominem attacks when unable to prove your point. But it’s hard to prove a point when you are bound to a presumption which conveniently allows you to sidestep the moral question of lockboxes and the harm they do to certain segments of the STO community, namely children, the mentally ill, and gambling addicts.
I'd suggest a revamp of the currencies, making Latinum a Premium currency which can only be purchased direct from Cryptic with cash, and with a Latinum Store of goodies which are character bind on Purchase. By all means keep the current dil to zen exchange so that some stuff is grindable, but by having stuff (say stuff like the Lobi ships) which is literally a cash-only purchase, it would prevent any kind of flipping on the exchange, meaning that players can't grind it and would have to buy it outright, and by being character bind on purchase, it would mean that SpaceRich can't buy it and flip it on the exchange for EC, thus the items would always maintain their desirability/exclusivity as Prestige Cash Items.
Lock Boxes are to be re-branded as Lobi Boxes, with set Lobi Crystals every time, to be tiered at normal, rare, and very rare.
Normal requires a Master Key to open, and contains 3 Lobi Crystals, and a random selection of items, equalling 3 uncommon, 2 rare, and one very rare item.
Rare requires a Medium Master Key to open, and will contain 6 Lobi Crystals, and a random selection of items, equalling 3 rare, 2 very rare and one ultra rare item.
Very rare requires a Large Master Key to open, and will contain 9 Lobi Crystals, and a random selection of items equalling 3 very rare, two ultra rare, and one epic item.
Lobi Boxes will not contain ships. Lobi Boxes will contain themed items such as weapons, traits, boosts etc, and will be a from a pre-determined (and advertized on Cryptic's homepage) list, and all items can be exchange flippable as is currently the case.
Other assorted purchases should be available such as cross-faction boffs. Either as exchange officers, who will wear the host faction's uniforms, or, as per the current situation with Romulan Embassy boffs, who are limited to Romulan visuals. These will include all F2P playable and boff-selectable races.
Universal boffs, who can be trained with ground skills for any discipline (wouldn't work in space, as the ship wouldn't necessarily accept their combined skills, but on the ground... Rock 'n' Roll...)
Cross faction uniforms unlocks, for example, a Federation-aligned Romulan, will be able to wear a Starfleet uniform.
Worf's sash to be purchasable (cash only) at any time.
House T'Kuvma ridges as a selectable option for Klingons (but only Klingons, not aliengen 'klingons')
Universal Space-Frames at Tiers 1-6, in escort, cruiser and science capabilities, which will allow the player to use ship components from any of their faction's ships (automatic scaling of part sizes) For example: Sovereign saucer with Miranda rollbar and struts with Rhode Island nacelles. Hull strength would be determined by the Tier of the frame, not the native strength of the 'highest Tier component', ergo, the example ship, if at T1, would only have the hull strength of a Miranda, not a Sovereign. Space Frames would be a cash only purchase.
In addition to existing price packs, Zen to be buyable singly. I think the current price packs are good, but they're also too out of line with a ship's zen cost, meaning multiples of a pack must be purchased, which then leaves players with a Zen surplus. Allowing someone to buy Zen singles to 'make up the difference', would allow people to buy exactly what they need for each purchase. Frequent small cumulative sales, tend to add up to more than occasional large spends.
(Having seen a huge number of default boff away teams on Nimbus and Kobalistan, I know some of these customization options wouldn't appeal to some, but I think they would still have appeal for others...
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Now go eat some turkey, it's Thanksgiving...
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
You didn’t make any “points.” This conversation isn’t an academic essay. I don’t see anyone in here citing sources or arguing with subject matter expert credentials. Nor do I recognize anyone with the actual power to change things in the game or how it is run. No, everyone in this forum and others are merely fans talking out of their gluteus maximi, arguing from a point of shared experience. You are making proposals and disagreeing or agreeing with others. But you are not, in any way, shape, or form, offering the level of sophistication in your posts needed to shape STO’s reality. If you’ve got it all figured out, and I think you are onto something with taking ships out of lockboxes and making lobi the premium prize, then you need to elevate yourself to a position of actual power. Because now, as things stand, you possess neither the experience needed to judge the merits or my posts, nor the authority needed to dismiss any ideas I choose to present to my fellow fans. Overplaying your hand has made you appear, with your cute little emojis and your (failed) attempts to harness logical fallacies like a giddy college freshman, haughty and unqualified. It’s not that you don’t have good ideas. It’s that everyone has good ideas from time to time. It doesn’t make you special, so you should save the air of superiority for another day, preferably one during which you can celebrate your first real life accomplishment.
Care to make it three ad homs in a row, and prove that you actually have nothing to contribute to the discussion?
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
So, you're saying a 2 sec CDR on a nade is a MASSIVE (in Caps-for dramatic effect) mech advantage and is game breaking P2W ? LOL Cause holy TRIBBLE man, there's stuff a million times worse going on here in STO. What are you some kind of hypocrite ?
And you've clearly misunderstood/misread/misinterpreted my statement. Slow down while reading mate.
My point about "noobs" was, a miniscule advantage like an 11.1% percent cooldown on a nade (16 sec instead of 18sec) is not an overwhelming P2W advantage, and anyone who isn't completely "inept/noob" should have no problems surmounting the miniscule advantage.
If you're bad, no starcard is gonna help you here. You even said it yourself.
Point is you can't put skill in a lootcrate/lockbox. And the gains you make for starcards aren't noticeable. But people like you make it seem like theyre crazy out of control.
So your statement of "MASSIVE (in caps-for dramatic effect lol) mechanical advantages" is a completely BS statement from someone who has never even set foot in the game and smacks of the uniformed circle-jerking going on over at reddit and other social media platforms.
But please continue to spread false information.
Whatever though, if you want to believe a meager 11.1% (2secs) cooldown on a nade (as a general example of the p2w) is game breaking P2W, then your definition of MASSIVE is clearly F'd up. What do you call the P2W going on over here in STO in terms of PVP. YUGE ? LMAO, MASSIVELY MASSIVE ??? ASTRONOMICAL ???? LMAO
Talk about being one hell of a hypocrite.
And I'm also gonna call complete BS on your "super P2W advantages" that Heroes get. Its utterly false. I own the actual game and that is far from the case. At least know what you're talking about before making claims. You've never even played it, stop talking like you know it inside and out lol. Or go back to Reddit and perform oral on the other circle-jerkers. Sharpen your pitchfork, call in the neckbeards... You'll be in the fine company of others of your ilk.
No need to watch cause it will just shatter your disillusions; but I'll leave this here for others who are more objective.
STAR WARS Battlefront II - 11 Kill streak with NO Star Cards.
I was swimming in starcards after a couple hours playing.
You can also craft any card you want with crafting materials. So, yeah. Controversy blown way out of proportion...because it's SW, and EA.
Popular social punching bags.
If people cared about Trek as much as SW, STO would be the one in the crosshairs right now.
When someone wins the rare uber ship from one, it gets announced in game right in the middle of your screen (unless your in combat) STO version of flashing lights at a casino when someone win big at slots.. Cryptic took their lead from activision handling of loot boxes in china when Activision did NOT want to reveal the loot table odds (required by PRC law) but that's because Activision was constantly changing the drop rates.. (which Cryptic also does). Selling loot box keys is by far Cryptic studio's biggest cash earner and drop rates are manipulated to drive key sales. It's a predatory business practice of a type that licenced CASINO'S are not permitted to do anywhere on this planet, But a gameing studio. and publisher can get away with it... for now.
I managed to wade through a few pages on this thread and I gotta say most of you need gambling addiction counselling. The amount of justifications I saw in posts to spend a little more money was just beyond words..
I'll make this clear.. I haven't played STO now in a few years. Partially it because I don't have a comp that'll run it any more... A couple years back there was some changes in the game graphics code and it just wont stay stable.. runs a few moments and crashes. I dont' have the spare cash to spend on a computer that'll run it without rolling over and blowing a CPU. And frankly, I'm glad. Cryptic studio's has monitized Star Trek so heavily that I can't stand to play it any more. I don't feel like I playing a star ship captain, I feel like I'm in a casino.
Just because it's "Star Trek" does not make it some sort of holy of holies.. and more the "Star Wars" is. Over the next year as the effects of EA blockheaded greed shakes out and governments across the planet get to regulating the online gaming industry things are going to change. The sort of predatory practices centered around loot crates are going to change.. Studio's will get to keep them but they'll be some long over due disclosure laws, and monitoring to ensure honestly.
The reason you buy loot box keys in STO is to maybe get some cool ship. There really is no other primary reason to buy keys. Anything else is a justification for ones addiction. Cryptic studio's is not honest and forthcoming about it's business practices and how they actively manipulate the customer to get them to spend even more money. There no excuse for it. It's unacceptable. But you as a person, whom ever you are need to do some critical self examination. YOUR the one spending the money on lock box keys. If you cannot control your spending, you need to stop playing STO.
Eventually Star Trek online will shut down. Maybe it'll be replaced with a STO-II, maybe not. Just be aware of how much money you've spent on this game. That money is GONE.. you will have nothing but the memories of what virtual goods you bought and that you got to enjoy for how ever long the game lasts.
Lock Boxes are gambling. And as for the line of no "real World Value" yea, right,, tell it to the ship sellers on E-Bay. As long as the Ship isn't opened, it can be exchanged, sold, traded etc. And why sell it for EC in game when you can sell it for cash outside of the game? Apparently they do have a real world value because people will pay cash for them.
Get the clue folks. And stop acting like a bunh of crack addicts. It's seriously lacking in dignity.
Kui sends
http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/24/gamers-refuse-to-buy-eas-battlefront-ii-on-black-friday-out-of-protest-7105946/
Bet their pretty ticked at EA too because IIRC the retailers have already paid EA for the games, so EA has all their money and their stuck with inventory that nobody wants.
Not really defending lockboxes here but PWE runs the lock boxes. Not Cryptic. They have no say in the matter.
original join date 2010
Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!
And unfortunately, they keep the lights on at Cryptic.
My character Tsin'xing
This could be the start of something...
So basically your saying that alcohol and tobacco products should be legalized for children. I mean it's the duty of the parent's to keep them safe from that, right?
That is not what he is saying.
Star Trek Online is really bad. Every time someone gets a "super prize", it's announced to the whole server. The lockbox interface has been updated to "feel good to spend keys". The "super prize" gets announced twice in the STO news; once in the Lockbox Blog and a separate "Super Prize" Blog. It is prominent in the launcher window while you are loading up the game.
It's all coldly calculated to prey on people with a specific psychological profile. There are numerous studies on this, and plenty of books in print. Activision is even patenting specific concepts that it plans to put in future games. Currently, none of this is against most laws. I'm glad governments and consumer protection groups are finally starting to look into these awful practices.
As far as STO goes, if the product cannot support itself without preying the most vulnerable, then it is a garbage product and should suffer the fate of being a garbage product.
Redvenge's assessment is off in one very specific way: loot boxes are bought by people with the money to pay for them. Sure there are peeps who are willing to spend 1k a year on stuff like that.... they're also the sort of people who think a thousand dollars is a minor expense. They're called whales because they have the means to afford it. Calling it "predatory marketing" is a false flag. Your so-called victims aren't the people who actually spend the most.
My character Tsin'xing
If someone is so psychologically vulnerable that they can't resist such things, then it's debatable as to if they should even have unsupervized access to such things.
Does Cryptic push the promotion of the Lock Boxes?
Yes.
Why?
Because they're what help pay for this game to keep running!
If someone is vulnerable to such addictive practices, the onus is on them to avoid those things, not for the rest of the world to be deprived of them, due to their lack of self-control or personal accountability.
Just because some guy is an alcoholic, that's no reason for the town to stop selling alcohol to anyone at all, or to try and guilt them (which is exactly what you're trying to do) into feeling bad about wanting to be able to have the option to have a drink, should they want to do so. That some kid might swipe a bottle from their parent's liquor cabinet, is no reason to prevent people having alcohol in their own homes, it's a reason for the parents to raise their kid to know better.
Personal Accountability.
This is a Star Trek MMO, not an online creche...
I doubt any of the hardcore grinders want to start paying a monthly cash subscription, for what they've been getting free for years, so that means that the company which provides us with this game, needs a sustainable revenue stream. It has nothing whatsoever about if something is 'a garbage product' or not, it's a case of devs don't work for free, so Cryptic needs to make money.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
You're perfectly right. That's why in most countries the gambling industry is subject to strict regulation and supervision by authorities. You and your familiy can have yourself put on a black list to prevent you from spending all your money in a casino yet again. If everybody had the mindset and capability to combat (or avoid) addiction, there would be no alcoholism, no obesity, no drug abuse.
There's no such safety system in the gaming industry though. Addiction is not monitored but encouraged. Even minors can spend all their money on loot boxes and nothing keeps them from doing it repeatedly.
It is debateable whether loot boxes should be banned or age restricted. But they certainly need to be regulated in some form or fashion, like everything else that can cause addictions.
Having an age-restricted, subscription-only game, is no problem in itself. The issue, aside from the lack of a 100% fool-proof online age verification system, is how it can be applied to this game, as I don't believe people are going to want to pay a subscription, for a game which has been F2P for years, and where anything which could generate cash-revenue, is totally grindable...
Removing Lock Boxes and Keys, for example, would be the easiest step, but Cryptic would need to replace that revenue stream. Dabo would need to become unplayable, because that absolutely is a 100% gamble.
I've already proposed additional ways in which Lock Boxes can be re-branded, and cash-revenue could be generated, but I've mentally resigned myself that this game will very likely close, as a result of this
*SuckItEditMonster
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth