^ Same here. I seriously doubt loot boxes will be removed from games. Worst that will happen is game developers will be forced to change the ESRB rating and/or post odds on obtaining top rewards when opening a box when advertising new loot boxes.
If the product is available to minors, then you can expect it get banned. Numerous online petitions for several States have sprung up by concerned groups across a broad spectrum of interests. There seems to be a real push to remove loot crates in video games right now.
I doubt anything will come of it. Were this to happen to video game companies, the law would need to apply to everything from Cracker Jacks to baseball cards to Pokemon cards to breakfast cereal boxes, all of which are marketed to minors.
Except when you buy a card bundle, you do get cards no matter what. Some (or a lot) you may not want and others more or less "precious", but you get them. So, it's different from lootboxes where you can get everything from an emote to the only weapon you'll ever need in the game.
I doubt anything will come of it. Were this to happen to video game companies, the law would need to apply to everything from Cracker Jacks to baseball cards to Pokemon cards to breakfast cereal boxes, all of which are marketed to minors.
Except when you buy a card bundle, you do get cards no matter what. Some (or a lot) you may not want and others more or less "precious", but you get them. So, it's different from lootboxes where you can get everything from an emote to the only weapon you'll ever need in the game.
And with Lock Boxes, you get Lobi Crystals no matter what, which can be saved for some pretty nice stuff...
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Reyan I think PWE has enough lawyers to get it looked at.
As I said in Ten Forward, new legislation is being introduced. Several interests are leading petitions to change the laws and remove "loot crates" from games that are accessible to minors. And the lawmakers are listening...
I doubt anything will come of it. Were this to happen to video game companies, the law would need to apply to everything from Cracker Jacks to baseball cards to Pokemon cards to breakfast cereal boxes, all of which are marketed to minors.
Except when you buy a card bundle, you do get cards no matter what. Some (or a lot) you may not want and others more or less "precious", but you get them. So, it's different from lootboxes where you can get everything from an emote to the only weapon you'll ever need in the game.
In all games with RNG item summons I know including STO, you do get items no matter what. Some (or a lot) you may not want, but you get them. Your difference is just semantics.
And no, nothing will come out of it. It's just a cheap political soundbyte.
Not that getting the "rating" changed would affect anything either, since this is not the kind of game that's sold in stores.
I doubt anything will come of it. Were this to happen to video game companies, the law would need to apply to everything from Cracker Jacks to baseball cards to Pokemon cards to breakfast cereal boxes, all of which are marketed to minors.
Except when you buy a card bundle, you do get cards no matter what. Some (or a lot) you may not want and others more or less "precious", but you get them. So, it's different from lootboxes where you can get everything from an emote to the only weapon you'll ever need in the game.
And with Lock Boxes, you get Lobi Crystals no matter what, which can be saved for some pretty nice stuff...
Yeah true..
There's always the Lobi argument to be made.
And I suppose these lockboxes would be a lot more predatory if the ships in them were bound to character on pickup.
I suppose that's their one saving grace, that the grand prizes aren't locked to "gambling", as you can acquire them by other means.
How would people feel about them if the ships were bound on pick up ? I'm sure a lot more people would make a noise about them.
I doubt anything will come of it. Were this to happen to video game companies, the law would need to apply to everything from Cracker Jacks to baseball cards to Pokemon cards to breakfast cereal boxes, all of which are marketed to minors.
Except when you buy a card bundle, you do get cards no matter what. Some (or a lot) you may not want and others more or less "precious", but you get them. So, it's different from lootboxes where you can get everything from an emote to the only weapon you'll ever need in the game.
And with Lock Boxes, you get Lobi Crystals no matter what, which can be saved for some pretty nice stuff...
Yeah true..
There's always the Lobi argument to be made.
And I suppose these lockboxes would be a lot more predatory if the ships in them were bound to character on pickup.
I suppose that's their one saving grace, that the grand prizes aren't locked to "gambling", as you can acquire them by other means.
How would people feel about them if the ships were bound on pick up ? I'm sure a lot more people would make a noise about them.
All joking aside though, they're not predatory; They're completely ignorable...
I guess the ship-flippers would get upset that they can no longer use such things as a way of making SpaceWealth, but that's not predation. It's not as if a player has to open said boxes to progress with the game (unlike the Romulan Reputation System) The only people who are going to 'fell victim' to these boxes, are people who, in all honesty, shouldn't be unsupervised on a computer anyway... This is just another example of namby-pamby statism potentially ruining something for everyone, just because a few can't handle it responsibly... I just hope Cryptic are able to work some solutions, so the franchise doesn't lose a game which has run longer than any of the TV series' which spawned it :-\
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I doubt anything will come of it. Were this to happen to video game companies, the law would need to apply to everything from Cracker Jacks to baseball cards to Pokemon cards to breakfast cereal boxes, all of which are marketed to minors.
This was kind of my thinking. Rep Lee said they're "designed to lure kids into spending money”. But they are a business. That could be said about every for profit company that has ever existed, affecting both kids and adults. If they are not intending to lure people into spending money, why are they even in business?
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
frankly I hope all gamble loot boxes get nixed. it's all digital goods, made of 1s and 0s. the ultra rare ship is no different than the mining claim, they both have the same "value". they need to make it so all items are bind to character on acquire, now you can choose from the entire loot list and choose what you want. That way if I want an item from the box, I buy a key for each character who wants that item.
they can make various tiers of boxes, higher the tier the more keys you need... also folks can put the higher tier boxes up for sale.
I doubt anything will come of it. Were this to happen to video game companies, the law would need to apply to everything from Cracker Jacks to baseball cards to Pokemon cards to breakfast cereal boxes, all of which are marketed to minors.
Except when you buy a card bundle, you do get cards no matter what. Some (or a lot) you may not want and others more or less "precious", but you get them. So, it's different from lootboxes where you can get everything from an emote to the only weapon you'll ever need in the game.
And with Lock Boxes, you get Lobi Crystals no matter what, which can be saved for some pretty nice stuff...
Yeah true..
There's always the Lobi argument to be made.
And I suppose these lockboxes would be a lot more predatory if the ships in them were bound to character on pickup.
I suppose that's their one saving grace, that the grand prizes aren't locked to "gambling", as you can acquire them by other means.
How would people feel about them if the ships were bound on pick up ? I'm sure a lot more people would make a noise about them.
All joking aside though, they're not predatory; They're completely ignorable...
I guess the ship-flippers would get upset that they can no longer use such things as a way of making SpaceWealth, but that's not predation. It's not as if a player has to open said boxes to progress with the game (unlike the Romulan Reputation System) The only people who are going to 'fell victim' to these boxes, are people who, in all honesty, shouldn't be unsupervised on a computer anyway... This is just another example of namby-pamby statism potentially ruining something for everyone, just because a few can't handle it responsibly... I just hope Cryptic are able to work some solutions, so the franchise doesn't lose a game which has run longer than any of the TV series' which spawned it :-\
Exactly!
Lockboxes contain nothing that is key to progression.
Lockboxes contain nothing that is key to DPS or player capability.
Lockboxes contain nothing that is vital to anything in-game.
Lockboxes are NOT legally classed as gambling. They are legally classed as 'Guaranteed Prize Raffles'.
You do not have to buy Lockboxes, and you are not forced to buy them.
Well, Disney didn't completely stop EA regarding the lootboxes and the horrible progression in Battlefront. They just had the micro-transactions put on hold until The Last Jedi is released and brings the bulk of the money, because they don't want the bad publicity of BFII to taint the movie's hype.
You can be sure that once the initial backlash dies out, they'll put the stuff back slightly improved and by the time countries finally settled with something regarding the lootboxes, BFII will be considered obsolete by EA.
It's actually a really beautiful SW game I must say. Kind of a shame some might miss out on it because of negative metacritic reviews by a wretched hive of circle-jerking pitchfork totting bandwagon haters.
A real shame.
Progression isn't as bad as the "Reddit Outrage Mob" would like you to believe.
I played a few hours of multiplayer with a friend the other night and had earned enough credits to buy 3 of the locked heroes.
Played through the campaign (which I enjoyed quite a lot), with the credits I earned there I can buy another 2 or 3 locked heroes.
So I really don't see where people are getting the poor progression argument from. (Actually I do know-Social media circle-Jerks hyping up the issue to fit their narrative).
It's no where near as grim as some of these people are claiming. Anyone who's actually played the game knows that for themselves.
The SW/EA social media controversy is only going to help ticket sales for The Last Jedi. Everyone is looking squarely at SW right now, good or bad, you can't buy advertisement that is this far reaching. And with TLJ just around the corner, this is an unexpected boon to their advertisement campaign.
If the movie is not complete garbage, you'll have a lot of the fence sitters jump into game with Christmas discounts on the horizon. Plus you have to consider that this game has already sold millions of copies in preorders alone. Add to that, it's the only "new" SW game in town for the forseeable future... It only looks good for both the movie and game going forward.
EA has said they won't re introduce the lootcrates until they've been adjusted with the communities concerns in mind. Now, normally I wouldn't trust much of anything that EA says, but with Disney breathing down their neck (and threatening to pull the SW license from EA), there is no way in hell they'll come back without major changes that will be palatable for the majority of the community.
Of course, not everyone will agree on the new lootcrate system (no matter what they do), and you can't please everyone, especially zealot level social media circle-jerks (who haven't even played the game for themselves), but the majority of gamers will swallow them so long as they're not nearly as predatory.
Some of the rumors so far indicate that they're going to go the cosmetic route, and rework the boxes and star card progression.
BUT it's wait and see, and you may be right about them slipping them back in with little change, we'll have to watch this as it unfolds.. But honestly, that would be the stupidest thing EA could do, and another controversy like they had last week about lootcrates will surely lose them the Big Fat Star Wars licence.
In STO's case, they have plenty of time to plan for future legislation.
But my guess is PWE will simply pull the plug on STO if lockboxes/lootcrates are deemed illegal.
Either that or they'll have to rework their pay structure and put everything in the lobi store/C-Store. Or some other similar solution.
As of right now, STO is on life support as far as new content and development is concerned. Their development team is tiny, and nowhere near the size of something like BF2's team.
And if it's too much effort/money to rework the sales structure, prepare for STO 's sunset. PWE won't invest into a game that's already near it's expiration date in terms of player population, and activity.
DOOOOOOOM!
How do you know STO is on life support??
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
I doubt anything will come of it. Were this to happen to video game companies, the law would need to apply to everything from Cracker Jacks to baseball cards to Pokemon cards to breakfast cereal boxes, all of which are marketed to minors.
Except when you buy a card bundle, you do get cards no matter what. Some (or a lot) you may not want and others more or less "precious", but you get them. So, it's different from lootboxes where you can get everything from an emote to the only weapon you'll ever need in the game.
Eh, past the first few, opening card packs for CCGs is very much like opening lockboxes in STO..... ignore the stack of Commons, briefly glance at the Uncommons as you flip immediately to the pack's Rare... and sigh in disappointment while reaching for the next pack. Especially if that rare is not only no good for your deck, but also such total garbage you won't even be able to trade/sell it for anything.
[As of right now, STO is on life support as far as new content and development is concerned
Which is why they are working on another expansion right now, and are teasing it in trailers in such as way they have only previously done with Legacy of Romulus?
This is expansion 4, and they have said they have ideas for all the way out to expansion 5. Life support my ****
Precisely. If the game was on life-support, where'd they get the money for LeVar Burton!?
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
This whole thing is stupid. Where's the outrage to ban real-life loot boxes? Nowhere. This is a fake controversy fueled by politicians trying to get money.
If the product is available to minors, then you can expect it get banned. Numerous online petitions for several States have sprung up by concerned groups across a broad spectrum of interests. There seems to be a real push to remove loot crates in video games right now.
Why would they ban them if they raise the ESRB rating to T or M? If you as a parent/guardian are allowing your minor child to play a video game intended for mature adults, that's your own stupidity and failure as a parent, not the game company.
If governments want to ban loot boxes, then they'll need to ban any number of toys/products available to and expressely targeted toward minors. These range from everything from Cracker Jacks and breakfast cereals to collectible trading cards and blind box toys to name a small few.
Loot boxes are 100% totally ignorable in STO. You don't need anything from them in order to progress in the game. If you are stupid enough to blow thousands of dollars on loot boxes with the sole intent of trying to win a top tier, ultra rare prize, that's your own stupidity.
Because there's currently, no reliable way of ensuring that the person signing up to play the game, truly is a legal adult. (and even if someone is an adult, there's no way to ensure that they're not a gambling addict, or in any other way mentally challenged) They (as in The Man) can't truly police an issue like this, and what they can't control, they will try and ban instead.
Like I said the other day, the only partially-plausible method to do so, would be via credit card subscription (which still wouldn't adress the 'gambling addicts' 'problem'). But as I also mentioned, with the amount of people who boast about how they can grind everything and still be SpaceRich, they're not going to want to pay an ongoing subscription... The game went F2P, I can't see a return to subscriptions bringing in enough money to keep the lights on... :-\
Even re-branding Lock Boxes on paper, into Lobi Boxes (with additional themed-goodies) won't appease these numpties, who will still try and make the case that someone will go broke spending the cash on opening them (to which, if I was Cryptic's CEO, I would take these lobyists to court for damage to future earnings, and demand that they produce witnesses reduced to poverty, by opening the Evil Box, to actually prove their case...)
Sadly, I can't see trading cards being used as a valid defence, but rather, would simply be roping in another collecting medium which would get dragged down with us :-\ I'll never forget one time as a child, I went round another kid's house after school to do the sticker books. Their dad had bought the entire box of cards from the newsagent, and it was just a case of opening the packets until we got what we wanted. Sure, my book got completed, but it also ruined it for me, because it had absolutely none of 'the fun of trading' which made collecting stickers fun. It's like when people say they want an "I Win" button: Completely misses the point of the activity. So yeah, I stopped collecting stickers, but I wouldn't want to take it away from anyone else by dragging it into this mess... (although I agree, card/sticker packs are indeed like Lock Boxes: Everything inside has Some Value, even if it's just as 'swaps' or exchange fodder)
If Cryptic may be unable to continue relying on Lock Boxes as their 'float money', they're going to have to start adding a lot more things to the Z-Store, and at reasonable prices (prices that many people will willingly pay, rather than grind for, so as to get a decent cumulation of sales) Stuff like Cross-Faction characters, Cross-Faction uniform unlocks, etc... Flexibility and customization is this game's strongest feature, IMO, they'll need to play to that strength even more if Lock Boxes have to come off the table...
#PassMeTheThreeSeashells
*SuckItEditMonster
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I'd bet real money governments won't ban loot boxes. There is too much money being made off of them. More likely they'll charge gaming companies (and thereby consumers) a tax for allowing them to exist.
I wouldn't want to take that bet, as I've seen how lobbyists like to get laws changed to suit their agenda... :-\
Yes, they could charge the gaming companies, but that then means the companies will have to charge their players... And, as I mentioned, I don't think people would be willing to subscribe to STO, if it was to go back to it's P2P beginning... Look at the recent screeching about Colony provisions and the rebalance (and further back, Delta Rising and Legacy of Romulus): The devs can't keep free players, thanks to their shenanigans. Paying subscribers definitely wouldn't be prepared to put up with those antics...
Don't get me wrong, I love this game... I love coming online and playing with my Space Barbies, but I'm not sure I'd be willing to pay an ongoing subscription to do so (especially when I've seen instances of where coding errors break consoles (MVAM Debacle) and render a character in permanent retirement (overloaded overflow bag which cannot be emptied, and there's a lot one can't do in the game, when the system says it's unable to do something due to too many items in the overflow bag...) And while I do see a lot of expensively geared characters around the social zones, I also see A Lot of Stock Character away teams running round Gorn Canyon and Kobalistan: If people can't even be bothered to customize their starting boffs, what hope is there of selling them Z-Store Customizations, or hoping they'd be willing to pay a subscription. That makes me fear that subscriptions and pure sales, might not necessarily be enough for this community, and thus not enough to keep the lights on :-\
Sheeeit... Goddamn suits... >_<
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Comments
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
And no, nothing will come out of it. It's just a cheap political soundbyte.
Not that getting the "rating" changed would affect anything either, since this is not the kind of game that's sold in stores.
Yeah true..
There's always the Lobi argument to be made.
And I suppose these lockboxes would be a lot more predatory if the ships in them were bound to character on pickup.
I suppose that's their one saving grace, that the grand prizes aren't locked to "gambling", as you can acquire them by other means.
How would people feel about them if the ships were bound on pick up ? I'm sure a lot more people would make a noise about them.
All joking aside though, they're not predatory; They're completely ignorable...
I guess the ship-flippers would get upset that they can no longer use such things as a way of making SpaceWealth, but that's not predation. It's not as if a player has to open said boxes to progress with the game (unlike the Romulan Reputation System) The only people who are going to 'fell victim' to these boxes, are people who, in all honesty, shouldn't be unsupervised on a computer anyway... This is just another example of namby-pamby statism potentially ruining something for everyone, just because a few can't handle it responsibly...
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
This was kind of my thinking. Rep Lee said they're "designed to lure kids into spending money”. But they are a business. That could be said about every for profit company that has ever existed, affecting both kids and adults. If they are not intending to lure people into spending money, why are they even in business?
Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
frankly I hope all gamble loot boxes get nixed. it's all digital goods, made of 1s and 0s. the ultra rare ship is no different than the mining claim, they both have the same "value". they need to make it so all items are bind to character on acquire, now you can choose from the entire loot list and choose what you want. That way if I want an item from the box, I buy a key for each character who wants that item.
they can make various tiers of boxes, higher the tier the more keys you need... also folks can put the higher tier boxes up for sale.
Exactly!
Lockboxes contain nothing that is key to progression.
Lockboxes contain nothing that is key to DPS or player capability.
Lockboxes contain nothing that is vital to anything in-game.
Lockboxes are NOT legally classed as gambling. They are legally classed as 'Guaranteed Prize Raffles'.
You do not have to buy Lockboxes, and you are not forced to buy them.
DOOOOOOOM!
How do you know STO is on life support??
Eh, past the first few, opening card packs for CCGs is very much like opening lockboxes in STO..... ignore the stack of Commons, briefly glance at the Uncommons as you flip immediately to the pack's Rare... and sigh in disappointment while reaching for the next pack. Especially if that rare is not only no good for your deck, but also such total garbage you won't even be able to trade/sell it for anything.
Precisely. If the game was on life-support, where'd they get the money for LeVar Burton!?
My character Tsin'xing
Like I said the other day, the only partially-plausible method to do so, would be via credit card subscription (which still wouldn't adress the 'gambling addicts' 'problem'). But as I also mentioned, with the amount of people who boast about how they can grind everything and still be SpaceRich, they're not going to want to pay an ongoing subscription... The game went F2P, I can't see a return to subscriptions bringing in enough money to keep the lights on... :-\
Even re-branding Lock Boxes on paper, into Lobi Boxes (with additional themed-goodies) won't appease these numpties, who will still try and make the case that someone will go broke spending the cash on opening them (to which, if I was Cryptic's CEO, I would take these lobyists to court for damage to future earnings, and demand that they produce witnesses reduced to poverty, by opening the Evil Box, to actually prove their case...)
Sadly, I can't see trading cards being used as a valid defence, but rather, would simply be roping in another collecting medium which would get dragged down with us :-\ I'll never forget one time as a child, I went round another kid's house after school to do the sticker books. Their dad had bought the entire box of cards from the newsagent, and it was just a case of opening the packets until we got what we wanted. Sure, my book got completed, but it also ruined it for me, because it had absolutely none of 'the fun of trading' which made collecting stickers fun. It's like when people say they want an "I Win" button: Completely misses the point of the activity. So yeah, I stopped collecting stickers, but I wouldn't want to take it away from anyone else by dragging it into this mess... (although I agree, card/sticker packs are indeed like Lock Boxes: Everything inside has Some Value, even if it's just as 'swaps' or exchange fodder)
The only feasible way to begin guaranteeing someone online is who they say they are, is with 1984-esque ideas like this one... :-\
If Cryptic may be unable to continue relying on Lock Boxes as their 'float money', they're going to have to start adding a lot more things to the Z-Store, and at reasonable prices (prices that many people will willingly pay, rather than grind for, so as to get a decent cumulation of sales) Stuff like Cross-Faction characters, Cross-Faction uniform unlocks, etc... Flexibility and customization is this game's strongest feature, IMO, they'll need to play to that strength even more if Lock Boxes have to come off the table...
#PassMeTheThreeSeashells
*SuckItEditMonster
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Yes, they could charge the gaming companies, but that then means the companies will have to charge their players... And, as I mentioned, I don't think people would be willing to subscribe to STO, if it was to go back to it's P2P beginning... Look at the recent screeching about Colony provisions and the rebalance (and further back, Delta Rising and Legacy of Romulus): The devs can't keep free players, thanks to their shenanigans. Paying subscribers definitely wouldn't be prepared to put up with those antics...
Don't get me wrong, I love this game... I love coming online and playing with my Space Barbies, but I'm not sure I'd be willing to pay an ongoing subscription to do so (especially when I've seen instances of where coding errors break consoles (MVAM Debacle) and render a character in permanent retirement (overloaded overflow bag which cannot be emptied, and there's a lot one can't do in the game, when the system says it's unable to do something due to too many items in the overflow bag...) And while I do see a lot of expensively geared characters around the social zones, I also see A Lot of Stock Character away teams running round Gorn Canyon and Kobalistan: If people can't even be bothered to customize their starting boffs, what hope is there of selling them Z-Store Customizations, or hoping they'd be willing to pay a subscription. That makes me fear that subscriptions and pure sales, might not necessarily be enough for this community, and thus not enough to keep the lights on :-\
Sheeeit... Goddamn suits... >_<
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
My character Tsin'xing