I have to ask, regarding the so-called "f-bomb", I never understood why this fries people's mind to the point they stop watching.
Because:
a) lack of swearing in the previous series showed how humanity has come. It was part of the picture for better future.
b) because it was not particularly appropriate in this situation - basically it was just another token to show: "oh, look, we have a very adult show now, all dark and gritty and with swearing"
Only if you consider using the f-word swearing. In almost all known uses of 'fork' (to use the redacted The Good Place term), it's ere an expletive of sorts, with no offense intended.
Great epsoide. My helights were mud, the 4 captains (archer, pike, april, decker). The d7 looked weired but one can assume the class had a refit. Rutha penthe and amacar being on the map. Lorca character development was intresting. Wondering if he heads s31. Wanna learn more bout his last ship n crew
The word itself is is actually a crude nickname for what is needed in reproduction from the male side. i am not going to get graphic side of the subject, but these days that f-word has been twisted to fit various meanings and a lot of them are negative meanings, from insults, to a comment based on mood to telling someone to get lost. it's also not something that should be mentioned in casual conversation especially since kids frequent this forum.
In an enlightened world, we wouldn't need to degrade ourselves by such negativity by using the word in any company.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I wouldn't expect that in the real world military, such behavior would be unacceptable and unprofessional and starfleet officers in general are usually serious about their duties.
This is a gross exaggeration. It's frowned on but not that greatly unless someone makes it standard practice.
thats my fear, that Discovery has become standard practice to let things slide a bit. even under captain Picard, he allowed people do what they needed to and gave them a little slack, but he always kept complete control by not allowing anyone to overstep. a simple warning isn't a problem and it kept simple.
I am likely overplaying my thoughts on the subject as you mentioned, but of all the trek series i have seen, i haven't seen a similar action to tilly's. Not even with Data on Generations.
Picard would do that, yes. Who else would? I'm pretty sure the Sisko and Kirk wouldn't care in this situation.
* Again with Burnham disobeying direct orders. It's getting old.
* When they have to spell it out that the Klingons really are smart, and not dumb at all, you know they're dumb. (And no, torture does not make one smart).
* Again a new episode of 'Spin the wheel.' Again, it's not Stargate.
And what it with that D7, or whatever it's supposed to be?
ST Discovery: We don't give a smegging **** about continuity or cannon!
Sorry, folks, but this is how I feel about the so-called D7
I really had my hopes up to see a genuine D7....even the JJ one would have fit better.
If they put in a constitution anywhere in this series, I think I am gonna be scared, rather than hopeful. T_T
Have to agree with Trekyards here - a list was a bit too fanservic-y. They've basically thrown in the names of era-appropriate known captains of the previous canon and that's all. It would be more thought through if they added a number of random unknown names to dilute this list a bit. A minor and not exactly important thing, but still...
I wouldn't expect that in the real world military, such behavior would be unacceptable and unprofessional and starfleet officers in general are usually serious about their duties.
This is a gross exaggeration. It's frowned on but not that greatly unless someone makes it standard practice.
thats my fear, that Discovery has become standard practice to let things slide a bit. even under captain Picard, he allowed people do what they needed to and gave them a little slack, but he always kept complete control by not allowing anyone to overstep. a simple warning isn't a problem and it kept simple.
I am likely overplaying my thoughts on the subject as you mentioned, but of all the trek series i have seen, i haven't seen a similar action to tilly's. Not even with Data on Generations.
Picard would do that, yes. Who else would? I'm pretty sure the Sisko and Kirk wouldn't care in this situation.
Oh?
Kirk did when Scotty started that brawl with the Klingons about the Enterprise.
Sisko did when O'Brien, Worf and Bashir were brawling in Quarks.
Sorry, but there are more examples than just this, Archer and Janeway have examples with their subordinates as well, some lattitude is given but up to a point.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I especially dislike the way they portray both the Klingons and the Federation, which is almost completely incompatible with all the previous canon.
...
Cornwell all but confirms that Starfleet Command is quite aware that the war is not Burnham's fault, but chose her as a scapegoat anyway - people wanted someone to be punished, so they've given them "this organization's only convicted mutineer". (BTW, interesting choice of words there "only convicted" - which somewhat implies that there were others, which were not convicted). Nice sleazy politician move there, Starfleet !
Politically-driven admirals are nothing new to Trek. Nacheyev (or however you spell it) takes the cake here, but TOS even had commodores/admirals that were driven by the wrong motives, if not outright incompetent.
If it was an exception, it would not be a problem. But for now most senior Federation officers in the show demonstrate questionable ethics and hidden motives with exception of Georgiou. Apparently being around Lorca and his methods started rubbing off even on Saru, judging by his actions in the discussed episode. Such behaviour - for now at least - is treated as a norm.
They basically portray Federation as more technologically advanced modern day society, which was not the point of Star Trek - it aimed first of all at showing the more socially advanced human civilization, than showing technological advancements.
Have to agree with Trekyards here - a list was a bit too fanservic-y. They've basically thrown in the names of era-appropriate known captains of the previous canon and all. It would be more thought through if they added a number of random unknown names to dilute this list a bit. A minor and not exactly important thing, but still...
Tell me about it.....the federation been around for a century, star fleet a little longer.....you mean to tell us only THOSE captains were the big names....and everyone else was Alexander the Average, Ivan the Bland, and Attila the Ho-hum? Make up some names....put in easter eggs, like the names of Doctor Who actors (which was done before in TNG), or names of designers of past Trek, or even random, silly names like Al Cohalic, Jim Nasium, I.P. Freely, SOMETHING!!!! Oy......
* Again with Burnham disobeying direct orders. It's getting old.
* When they have to spell it out that the Klingons really are smart, and not dumb at all, you know they're dumb. (And no, torture does not make one smart).
* Again a new episode of 'Spin the wheel.' Again, it's not Stargate.
And what it with that D7, or whatever it's supposed to be?
ST Discovery: We don't give a smegging **** about continuity or cannon!
Sorry, folks, but this is how I feel about the so-called D7
I really had my hopes up to see a genuine D7....even the JJ one would have fit better.
If they put in a constitution anywhere in this series, I think I am gonna be scared, rather than hopeful. T_T
LOL @ your reaction-picture to the D7.
Tankies.
As I said, though, if we hear about Constitutions showing up.....I'm gonna be scared, rather than excited.
We saw her for essentially 1 episode and know nothing of her career.
same thought, we saw her in the pilot and nothing more, it's hard to judge based on that. having some flashbacks of Burnham's time on the Shenzhou with the Captain as her focus, it could give us some much needed detail on Georgiou as a Captain.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
We saw her for essentially 1 episode and know nothing of her career.
They got a a squashed hedgehog doing the writing. What we seen of her, thus far, she's not impressed me.....only accomplishment she's done so far is probably taste good with a side order of Rokeg blood pie. >_>
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
* Again with Burnham disobeying direct orders. It's getting old.
* When they have to spell it out that the Klingons really are smart, and not dumb at all, you know they're dumb. (And no, torture does not make one smart).
* Again a new episode of 'Spin the wheel.' Again, it's not Stargate.
And what it with that D7, or whatever it's supposed to be?
ST Discovery: We don't give a smegging **** about continuity or cannon!
Sorry, folks, but this is how I feel about the so-called D7
I really had my hopes up to see a genuine D7....even the JJ one would have fit better.
If they put in a constitution anywhere in this series, I think I am gonna be scared, rather than hopeful. T_T
LOL @ your reaction-picture to the D7.
Tankies.
As I said, though, if we hear about Constitutions showing up.....I'm gonna be scared, rather than excited.
Yeah...... I've already been told off here for saying that I would be disappointed if we saw anything other than the Constitution class looking as it did from 'The Cage'. Granted the reply was that it'd more likely be the 'production' connie reskinned, but nonetheless......
We're gonna get a pile of TRIBBLE, I got a feeling.
And probably make the Discover outshine them or something.
They got a CG model from the Enterprise and Remastered days, I'd even be happy with THAT. And I seen some awesome TOS Constitutions in CGI that would look great on screen.
I saw nothing about Georgiou's action that made me think she was a bad Captain. I don't think I saw anything that would make me think she was particularly impressive either, but she certainly had the right moral attitude to bring, and given the relationship and feelings expressed by her peers (Saru and Burnam particularly), she might have been a pretty good Captain.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I have to ask, regarding the so-called "f-bomb", I never understood why this fries people's mind to the point they stop watching. What is going on here? Why are so many people conditioned to uphold "clean language" while tolerating actual bad things happening every day. The characters didn't even use it as a curse or insult but to express amazement.
Personally speaking, I didn't have an issue with the language... or, at least half of the scene.
For starters, I believe language is far more powerful than the majority of people realize. I also believe that many are too quick to use "profane" language, only to detriment themselves. If you do a podcast, for example, and you can't complete one sentence without using the F-word, I think that makes you sound childish and uninspired. There are far more exacting words people can use, but they don't. It's sad. (There are also curse words that I, personally, find repugnant... but, that is just me.)
Beyond that, and more directly to Discovery's problem, they're walking a fine line. I think Tilly's use of the F-word was 100% in-character for her. She's smart, excitable, naive, socially awkward... and kinda nerdy, LOL. From what we've seen, she WOULD get THAt excited about technobabble. I'm utterly shocked more fans aren't picking up on this.
Now, Anthony Rapp's usage of it felt a bridge too far. For me, it partially had to do with his delivery of the line. It felt forced. And, that, is the line this show walks... they're aiming for natural, but sometimes, they force it.
I wasn't too shocked about the f-bomb per se. But I was shocked by who dropped it first. If it was going to drop, I thought it would've been Lorca in the form of a torp spread f-bomb.
STO: Where men are men and the women probably are too.
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
Iiked it, but wow was it dark. Torturing Ripper till he couldn't take it any more, brutal torture of the Klingons prisoners, finding out that the female Warden was TRIBBLE one of the male prisoners, the female warden getting her face melted, finding out Lorcan murdered his former crew, Statmen using his self as a test subject injecting himself with rippers DNA, and lastly that biazze and creepy ending scene. Compared to that the F-bombs we're light hearted.
The female warden sexually abusing one of the male prisoners alone will get a major response.
Dark, Dark, episode, but at least it had a happy ending for Ripper.
Honestly TRIBBLE has more of a Sci-Fi Horror feel, then most traditional star trek, but I'm enjoying it anyways (except the way the Klingons look, that is terrible and this is the Star Trek with the least sex appeal that I've ever seen, except to TRIBBLE men, which is at least something).
I wouldn't expect that in the real world military, such behavior would be unacceptable and unprofessional and starfleet officers in general are usually serious about their duties.
This is a gross exaggeration. It's frowned on but not that greatly unless someone makes it standard practice.
thats my fear, that Discovery has become standard practice to let things slide a bit. even under captain Picard, he allowed people do what they needed to and gave them a little slack, but he always kept complete control by not allowing anyone to overstep. a simple warning isn't a problem and it kept simple.
I am likely overplaying my thoughts on the subject as you mentioned, but of all the trek series i have seen, i haven't seen a similar action to tilly's. Not even with Data on Generations.
Picard would do that, yes. Who else would? I'm pretty sure the Sisko and Kirk wouldn't care in this situation.
Oh?
Kirk did when Scotty started that brawl with the Klingons about the Enterprise.
Sisko did when O'Brien, Worf and Bashir were brawling in Quarks.
Sorry, but there are more examples than just this, Archer and Janeway have examples with their subordinates as well, some lattitude is given but up to a point.
Interesting examples, they're a far more egregious sort of violation of decorum, thus it's kinda like comparing sardines to tuna...
Iiked it, but wow was it dark. Torturing Ripper till he couldn't take it any more, brutal torture of the Klingons prisoners, finding out that the female Warden was **** one of the male prisoners, the female warden getting her face melted, finding out Lorcan murdered his former crew, Statmen using his self as a test subject injecting himself with rippers DNA, and lastly that biazze and creepy ending scene. Compared to that the F-bombs we're light hearted.
The female warden sexually abusing one of the male prisoners alone will get a major response.
Dark, Dark, episode, but at least it had a happy ending for Ripper.
Honestly TRIBBLE has more of a Sci-Fi Horror feel, then most traditional star trek, but I'm enjoying it anyways (except the way the Klingons look, that is terrible and this is the Star Trek with the least sex appeal that I've ever seen, except to **** men, which is at least something).
In fairness TOS had a wide variety of horror aspects too. Aliens who use acid to dissolve you? Creatures that can mind control you and force you to kill your friends?
The female Klingon who got her face shot off was L'Rell, right?
I wasn't 100% sure myself on Sunday, but After Trek seemed to confirm that. Yet, I've read a lot of people seemingly missing this fact, and it even was brought up on one of the Discovery podcasts I listen to. So, clearly, this is a "thing" and should be clarified.
I have to ask, regarding the so-called "f-bomb", I never understood why this fries people's mind to the point they stop watching. What is going on here? Why are so many people conditioned to uphold "clean language" while tolerating actual bad things happening every day. The characters didn't even use it as a curse or insult but to express amazement.
In most writing, writers use profanity to illustrate character traits like how a character is "ordinary", "simple", or "not educated" (which is not the same as stupid). Hack writers use it for "shock value" (as though the audience has never heard those words before).
Star Trek typically uses it's writing to make it's characters smarter, the ye olde "technobable", for instance. What characters say is part of how intelligent they are in Star Trek. For the writers to not take this into account when having a seemingly autistic person shout obscenities during a normal conversation, is stupid. Now, she now seems afflicted with some form of Asperger's. I was wondering if her "issues" would detract from her ability to perform her duties and this just reinforces my concerns.
If Harry Mudd was to start swearing, it would be fine. He is a con artist and a criminal, and as such, swearing would be appropriate for his character.
Comments
Only if you consider using the f-word swearing. In almost all known uses of 'fork' (to use the redacted The Good Place term), it's ere an expletive of sorts, with no offense intended.
In an enlightened world, we wouldn't need to degrade ourselves by such negativity by using the word in any company.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
My character Tsin'xing
LOL @ your reaction-picture to the D7.
Oh?
Kirk did when Scotty started that brawl with the Klingons about the Enterprise.
Sisko did when O'Brien, Worf and Bashir were brawling in Quarks.
Sorry, but there are more examples than just this, Archer and Janeway have examples with their subordinates as well, some lattitude is given but up to a point.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
If it was an exception, it would not be a problem. But for now most senior Federation officers in the show demonstrate questionable ethics and hidden motives with exception of Georgiou. Apparently being around Lorca and his methods started rubbing off even on Saru, judging by his actions in the discussed episode. Such behaviour - for now at least - is treated as a norm.
They basically portray Federation as more technologically advanced modern day society, which was not the point of Star Trek - it aimed first of all at showing the more socially advanced human civilization, than showing technological advancements.
Tell me about it.....the federation been around for a century, star fleet a little longer.....you mean to tell us only THOSE captains were the big names....and everyone else was Alexander the Average, Ivan the Bland, and Attila the Ho-hum? Make up some names....put in easter eggs, like the names of Doctor Who actors (which was done before in TNG), or names of designers of past Trek, or even random, silly names like Al Cohalic, Jim Nasium, I.P. Freely, SOMETHING!!!!
And sorry.....Philippa was not a good captain.
Tankies.
As I said, though, if we hear about Constitutions showing up.....I'm gonna be scared, rather than excited.
same thought, we saw her in the pilot and nothing more, it's hard to judge based on that. having some flashbacks of Burnham's time on the Shenzhou with the Captain as her focus, it could give us some much needed detail on Georgiou as a Captain.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
They got a a squashed hedgehog doing the writing. What we seen of her, thus far, she's not impressed me.....only accomplishment she's done so far is probably taste good with a side order of Rokeg blood pie. >_>
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Klingon_Warbird
One knows it's bad when JJ's stuff looks nice in comparison.
We're gonna get a pile of TRIBBLE, I got a feeling.
And probably make the Discover outshine them or something.
They got a CG model from the Enterprise and Remastered days, I'd even be happy with THAT. And I seen some awesome TOS Constitutions in CGI that would look great on screen.
Watch us get a pile of rubbish........just watch.
Personally speaking, I didn't have an issue with the language... or, at least half of the scene.
For starters, I believe language is far more powerful than the majority of people realize. I also believe that many are too quick to use "profane" language, only to detriment themselves. If you do a podcast, for example, and you can't complete one sentence without using the F-word, I think that makes you sound childish and uninspired. There are far more exacting words people can use, but they don't. It's sad. (There are also curse words that I, personally, find repugnant... but, that is just me.)
Beyond that, and more directly to Discovery's problem, they're walking a fine line. I think Tilly's use of the F-word was 100% in-character for her. She's smart, excitable, naive, socially awkward... and kinda nerdy, LOL. From what we've seen, she WOULD get THAt excited about technobabble. I'm utterly shocked more fans aren't picking up on this.
Now, Anthony Rapp's usage of it felt a bridge too far. For me, it partially had to do with his delivery of the line. It felt forced. And, that, is the line this show walks... they're aiming for natural, but sometimes, they force it.
That's my two EC on the topic.
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
The female warden sexually abusing one of the male prisoners alone will get a major response.
Dark, Dark, episode, but at least it had a happy ending for Ripper.
Honestly TRIBBLE has more of a Sci-Fi Horror feel, then most traditional star trek, but I'm enjoying it anyways (except the way the Klingons look, that is terrible and this is the Star Trek with the least sex appeal that I've ever seen, except to TRIBBLE men, which is at least something).
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
The female Klingon who got her face shot off was L'Rell, right?
I wasn't 100% sure myself on Sunday, but After Trek seemed to confirm that. Yet, I've read a lot of people seemingly missing this fact, and it even was brought up on one of the Discovery podcasts I listen to. So, clearly, this is a "thing" and should be clarified.
Star Trek typically uses it's writing to make it's characters smarter, the ye olde "technobable", for instance. What characters say is part of how intelligent they are in Star Trek. For the writers to not take this into account when having a seemingly autistic person shout obscenities during a normal conversation, is stupid. Now, she now seems afflicted with some form of Asperger's. I was wondering if her "issues" would detract from her ability to perform her duties and this just reinforces my concerns.
If Harry Mudd was to start swearing, it would be fine. He is a con artist and a criminal, and as such, swearing would be appropriate for his character.
I'm not judging completely until the whole first season is done.
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