Oh no, that video illustrates perfectly well what was wrong with your lack of an argument. You were attempting to make an argument I didn't make and then failing miserably because in none of those episodes did Gene attack the people supporting or opposing those issues. I addressed the SJW-bovine-fecal-matter that the producers of TRIBBLE openly admitted is in the show (and CBS is now backpeddling about), you attempted to conflate Roddenberry's style of addressing issues with the SJW-tactics used in TRIBBLE to attack political opponents. They are not even close and the video I linked to explains that.
You of course had to ignore the contents of the video because Dave Cullen was spot on.
What you also failed to see is that Star Trek is supposed to take place after the Eugenic Wars (which is an anti-Progressive statement by Roddenberry to begin with) in a society where there is no scarcity or want. Roddenberry didn't push for "LGBT rights" he pushed for EQUAL rights. He didn't support special classes, he opposed that type of elitist nonsense. He's putting forward a Utopian societies' problems and how they deal with them from a Liberal, rather than Progressive, perspective. Liberals believe in inalienable rights for all, for staunch individualism, and egalitarianism, these are themes Roddenberry had in Star Trek. What TRIBBLE shows is a main character that is essentially an ubermench who cares nothing for the rights of others, has little respect for people she's served with for 7-years,6 and is the embodiment of the "Expert" leading the untermench. If you understand what the political ideology of Progressivism is, then you would understand how TRIBBLE differs from what Gene's Star Trek was. JJ-Abrams deviated from Roddenberry a little, but not to the extend TRIBBLE has. My point, as I've stated here already a few times, is that TRIBBLE went too far and is an attempt at using Star Trek as propaganda and that is a big turn off.
... You know what? I apologize, I misunderstood your argument. You see, usually when I see the term "SJW" it's just a right-wing buzzword for anybody on the leftward side of the political spectrum; its usage mutated a long way away from the way you're using it before I ever heard it.
(Protip, I also generally see the words "liberal" and "progressive" used in the opposite fashion from what you said just now, especially in the political crowd I usually hang with.)
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
just remember - seasons 1 of TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT were all royal stinkers with a few good episodes
Well, I consider all of TNG pretty much all stinkers. Same thing with ENT. VOY had some good season in the middle, but most of 1 and pretty much anything after she helps the borg I consider stupid. Don't like ToS...at all. Or the movies they created. TNG movies were all bad...although I kinda like nemesis because Romulans. I actually LIKED the first season of DS9...and even the pilot. Yeah the acting was somewhat over played in season 1...and especially the pilot, but they had engaging stories that made you think a bit. And I like stories like that. Basically if it wasn't for DS9, I would pretty much not care about Trek at all. Because of DS9, I do care about it and so watched all of it...even ToS...even Spock's Brain (GEH)...and even pretty much all the fan films I can find on youtube (ranging from freaking AWESOME to worse than GEH). But with all my critique of Trek over the years, I have yet to see anything that made me scream that is so stupid and why the frak are you doing that at the screen as much as the "pilot" of TRIBBLE. Not even the worst fan film was this bad in the level of stupid it reached. So yeah...when you can't do better than the worst fan film writers...we have a problem Houston.
Regardless of the whole anti-trump thing, the Klingons attitudes in TRIBBLE does actually ring true and aligns perfectly with Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.
General Chang and his co-conspirators pretty much stood for the same ideals and principles(minus the religious rhetoric), even refusing help from the Federation after what can only be described as an extinction level event on their homeworld.
I definitely agree though that the whole "remain Klingon" thing is laying it on a little thick and lacks subtlety.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
Regardless of the whole anti-trump thing, the Klingons attitudes in TRIBBLE does actually ring true and aligns perfectly with Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.
General Chang and his co-conspirators pretty much stood for the same ideals and principles(minus the religious rhetoric), even refusing help from the Federation after what can only be described as an extinction level event on their homeworld.
I definitely agree though that the whole "remain Klingon" thing is laying it on a little thick and lacks subtlety.
Eh, I think that the writers kind of overplayed the significance of the disaster. From what I remember of the dialogue, the disaster's effects were supposed to play out over the span of decades in the form of ozone depletion and polution. That is plenty of time for a space faring multi-planet Empire to relocate the majority of its capitols population and beef up the infrastructure of its colonial territories.
Yes, the loss of their home world would be hugely inconvenient, but it would hardly be the end of their Empire let alone species. The writers simply lack a sense of scale when it comes to stuff like this, much like how they overplayed the destruction of Vulcan in the 2009 movie. STO seems to have a better grip on this concept with the way the Romulan's handled the destruction of their home world.
This entire premise actually reminds me a lot of Mobile Suit Gundam's backstory, where the majority of the population is forced to migrate to space colonies after the Earth is used up. *imagines a Klingon version of the One Year War*
Regardless of the whole anti-trump thing, the Klingons attitudes in TRIBBLE does actually ring true and aligns perfectly with Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.
General Chang and his co-conspirators pretty much stood for the same ideals and principles(minus the religious rhetoric), even refusing help from the Federation after what can only be described as an extinction level event on their homeworld.
I definitely agree though that the whole "remain Klingon" thing is laying it on a little thick and lacks subtlety.
Eh, I think that the writers kind of overplayed the significance of the disaster. From what I remember of the dialogue, the disaster's effects were supposed to play out over the span of decades in the form of ozone depletion and polution. That is plenty of time for a space faring multi-planet Empire to relocate the majority of its capitols population and beef up the infrastructure of its colonial territories.
Yes, the loss of their home world would be hugely inconvenient, but it would hardly be the end of their Empire let alone species. The writers simply lack a sense of scale when it comes to stuff like this, much like how they overplayed the destruction of Vulcan in the 2009 movie. STO seems to have a better grip on this concept with the way the Romulan's handled the destruction of their home world.
This entire premise actually reminds me a lot of Mobile Suit Gundam's backstory, where the majority of the population is forced to migrate to space colonies after the Earth is used up. *imagines a Klingon version of the One Year War*
Asimov's Robots and Empire dealt with this concept as a way for mankind to colonize the galaxy. Without the security of a homeworld, mankind is free to colonize the entire galaxy without relying on the safety of Earth.
Thank you for posting that.
I hadn't read that article yet.
The SJW-nonsense in TRIBBLE is pretty thick.
Try watching the preceding five shows with your brain turned on this time: you're going to find traditionally left-wing values plastered all over them. LGBT rights? "Unjoined" (EDIT: 'scuse me, "Rejoined"). Pro-union? "Bar Association". Anti-racism? "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield", "Duet". Pro-welfare state? "Past Tense". Anti-interventionism? Frell, pick any episode where the Prime Directive is brought up. Anti-greed as personal motivation? "The Neutral Zone", for one.
Amen to that. Star Trek is and always has been the most SJW shows around.
Also, seriously, what SJW nonsense? What is the complaint?
There's been no mention of the main characters skin colour, no mention of the fact she's a woman, no mention of the captain being Asian. There's been ZERO hitting over the head with a moral equivalent of an anvil, which Trek has been known for in the past. Compare that to Trek in the past, when it would whack you over the head repeatedly, trying to drill an important SJ message into your head (for some it obviously needed a stronger drill).
Or am I the only one who remembers Harry Kim coming on board Voyager and being instructed by Janeway on what to call her. Or Chakotay going on and on and on and on and on about his (faux) Native American customs. Or Spock having to deal with prejudice because he was a "half-blood". Etc etc etc.
heh, one story idea I had was a universe where humans had a sort of cold war leading up to developing space flight. The factions in the cold war were each trying to get the most money they could out of exploiting the natural resources in space. After they started building colonies though, the war changed focus as some of the colonies started fighting Earth, which lead to Earth getting a few hundred thousand tons heavier as one of the colonial factions created an asteroid rain. that was only an interlude in the war while the factions paused to reorganize. It didn't actually wipe out any of the factions.
Thank you for posting that.
I hadn't read that article yet.
The SJW-nonsense in TRIBBLE is pretty thick.
Try watching the preceding five shows with your brain turned on this time: you're going to find traditionally left-wing values plastered all over them. LGBT rights? "Unjoined" (EDIT: 'scuse me, "Rejoined"). Pro-union? "Bar Association". Anti-racism? "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield", "Duet". Pro-welfare state? "Past Tense". Anti-interventionism? Frell, pick any episode where the Prime Directive is brought up. Anti-greed as personal motivation? "The Neutral Zone", for one.
Amen to that. Star Trek is and always has been the most SJW shows around.
Also, seriously, what SJW nonsense? What is the complaint?
There's been no mention of the main characters skin colour, no mention of the fact she's a woman, no mention of the captain being Asian. There's been ZERO hitting over the head with a moral equivalent of an anvil, which Trek has been known for in the past. Compare that to Trek in the past, when it would whack you over the head repeatedly, trying to drill an important SJ message into your head (for some it obviously needed a stronger drill).
Or am I the only one who remembers Harry Kim coming on board Voyager and being instructed by Janeway on what to call her. Or Chakotay going on and on and on and on and on about his (faux) Native American customs. Or Spock having to deal with prejudice because he was a "half-blood". Etc etc etc.
So far Discovery is the least SJW Trek.
Actually Star Trek has "never" been an SJW show.
Star Trek has always espoused true tolerance and not imposing out morality or cultural norms on others, even when we feel very strongly about it.
The SJW movement however is arrogant and totally devoid of tolerance, and is actually quite hostile and aggressive towards people who don't share its views and beliefs.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
Thank you for posting that.
I hadn't read that article yet.
The SJW-nonsense in TRIBBLE is pretty thick.
Try watching the preceding five shows with your brain turned on this time: you're going to find traditionally left-wing values plastered all over them. LGBT rights? "Unjoined" (EDIT: 'scuse me, "Rejoined"). Pro-union? "Bar Association". Anti-racism? "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield", "Duet". Pro-welfare state? "Past Tense". Anti-interventionism? Frell, pick any episode where the Prime Directive is brought up. Anti-greed as personal motivation? "The Neutral Zone", for one.
Amen to that. Star Trek is and always has been the most SJW shows around.
Also, seriously, what SJW nonsense? What is the complaint?
There's been no mention of the main characters skin colour, no mention of the fact she's a woman, no mention of the captain being Asian. There's been ZERO hitting over the head with a moral equivalent of an anvil, which Trek has been known for in the past. Compare that to Trek in the past, when it would whack you over the head repeatedly, trying to drill an important SJ message into your head (for some it obviously needed a stronger drill).
Or am I the only one who remembers Harry Kim coming on board Voyager and being instructed by Janeway on what to call her. Or Chakotay going on and on and on and on and on about his (faux) Native American customs. Or Spock having to deal with prejudice because he was a "half-blood". Etc etc etc.
So far Discovery is the least SJW Trek.
Actually Star Trek has "never" been an SJW show.
Actually it has always been a SJW show.
Star Trek has always espoused true tolerance and not imposing out morality or cultural norms on others, even when we feel very strongly about it.
Only in other cultures. When it came to someone in the Federation if they showed even the slightest bit of racism/sexism/prejudice they would get the angry Kirk/Picard/Janeway/Sisko speech.
The SJW movement however is arrogant and totally devoid of tolerance, and is actually quite hostile and aggressive towards people who don't share its views and beliefs.
Funnily enough that's the exact complaint the Ferengi make about the Federation. Federation arrogance for telling them what they were doing was wrong and believing they were right.
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Need a little more on Lorca but i have met people like Lorca before: Secretive, always has a long term goal even if it means it happens in small pieces, never reveals the whole truth but just enough to convince his minion that something is worth doing to further that goal and after what happened on the Discovery's sister ship, Lorca just destroyed it like it didn't matter, so i think in his mind people are like chess pieces on the board, so long as they follow his part in his plan to win, he will sacrifice those needed when the time comes to get that overall victory.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Why beam that creature aboard that killed the Glenn's crew?
He's already breached regulation by bringing something dangerous to the ship and crew
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
As long as the Federation is protected by any means
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
well, so far, lorca hasn't done anything more despicable than recruiting a mutineer and taking that creature that attacked the team aboard the glenn as a pet
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
At first I thought that Discovery was developing the groundwork for project genesis but their drive experiments are dangerous if it goes wrong like in the case of the USS Glenn. There is something not right with Lorca
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
As long as the Federation is protected by any means
Meh....to me, the cause does not justify means if it involves doing despicable things.
When it comes to ends justifying the means, I'd be cool with Lorca redirecting a Doomsday Machine towards Qo'nos. But then later the Federation would probably lose the Dominion War, so ...
As long as the Federation is protected by any means
Meh....to me, the cause does not justify means if it involves doing despicable things.
When it comes to ends justifying the means, I'd be cool with Lorca redirecting a Doomsday Machine towards Qo'nos. But then later the Federation would probably lose the Dominion War, so ...
I don't think Genocide would be considered ok. ;;|O.o\
As long as the Federation is protected by any means
Meh....to me, the cause does not justify means if it involves doing despicable things.
When it comes to ends justifying the means, I'd be cool with Lorca redirecting a Doomsday Machine towards Qo'nos. But then later the Federation would probably lose the Dominion War, so ...
I don't think Genocide would be considered ok. ;;|O.o\
Star Trek has always espoused true tolerance and not imposing out morality or cultural norms on others, even when we feel very strongly about it.
Only in other cultures. When it came to someone in the Federation if they showed even the slightest bit of racism/sexism/prejudice they would get the angry Kirk/Picard/Janeway/Sisko speech.
We are the Federation. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
... You know what? I apologize, I misunderstood your argument. You see, usually when I see the term "SJW" it's just a right-wing buzzword for anybody on the leftward side of the political spectrum; its usage mutated a long way away from the way you're using it before I ever heard it.
(Protip, I also generally see the words "liberal" and "progressive" used in the opposite fashion from what you said just now, especially in the political crowd I usually hang with.)
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
General Chang and his co-conspirators pretty much stood for the same ideals and principles(minus the religious rhetoric), even refusing help from the Federation after what can only be described as an extinction level event on their homeworld.
I definitely agree though that the whole "remain Klingon" thing is laying it on a little thick and lacks subtlety.
Eh, I think that the writers kind of overplayed the significance of the disaster. From what I remember of the dialogue, the disaster's effects were supposed to play out over the span of decades in the form of ozone depletion and polution. That is plenty of time for a space faring multi-planet Empire to relocate the majority of its capitols population and beef up the infrastructure of its colonial territories.
Yes, the loss of their home world would be hugely inconvenient, but it would hardly be the end of their Empire let alone species. The writers simply lack a sense of scale when it comes to stuff like this, much like how they overplayed the destruction of Vulcan in the 2009 movie. STO seems to have a better grip on this concept with the way the Romulan's handled the destruction of their home world.
This entire premise actually reminds me a lot of Mobile Suit Gundam's backstory, where the majority of the population is forced to migrate to space colonies after the Earth is used up. *imagines a Klingon version of the One Year War*
Asimov's Robots and Empire dealt with this concept as a way for mankind to colonize the galaxy. Without the security of a homeworld, mankind is free to colonize the entire galaxy without relying on the safety of Earth.
Amen to that. Star Trek is and always has been the most SJW shows around.
Also, seriously, what SJW nonsense? What is the complaint?
There's been no mention of the main characters skin colour, no mention of the fact she's a woman, no mention of the captain being Asian. There's been ZERO hitting over the head with a moral equivalent of an anvil, which Trek has been known for in the past. Compare that to Trek in the past, when it would whack you over the head repeatedly, trying to drill an important SJ message into your head (for some it obviously needed a stronger drill).
Or am I the only one who remembers Harry Kim coming on board Voyager and being instructed by Janeway on what to call her. Or Chakotay going on and on and on and on and on about his (faux) Native American customs. Or Spock having to deal with prejudice because he was a "half-blood". Etc etc etc.
So far Discovery is the least SJW Trek.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
My character Tsin'xing
Actually Star Trek has "never" been an SJW show.
Star Trek has always espoused true tolerance and not imposing out morality or cultural norms on others, even when we feel very strongly about it.
The SJW movement however is arrogant and totally devoid of tolerance, and is actually quite hostile and aggressive towards people who don't share its views and beliefs.
Actually it has always been a SJW show.
Only in other cultures. When it came to someone in the Federation if they showed even the slightest bit of racism/sexism/prejudice they would get the angry Kirk/Picard/Janeway/Sisko speech.
Funnily enough that's the exact complaint the Ferengi make about the Federation. Federation arrogance for telling them what they were doing was wrong and believing they were right.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Need a little more on Lorca but i have met people like Lorca before: Secretive, always has a long term goal even if it means it happens in small pieces, never reveals the whole truth but just enough to convince his minion that something is worth doing to further that goal and after what happened on the Discovery's sister ship, Lorca just destroyed it like it didn't matter, so i think in his mind people are like chess pieces on the board, so long as they follow his part in his plan to win, he will sacrifice those needed when the time comes to get that overall victory.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
He's already breached regulation by bringing something dangerous to the ship and crew
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Meh....to me, the cause does not justify means if it involves doing despicable things.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
When it comes to ends justifying the means, I'd be cool with Lorca redirecting a Doomsday Machine towards Qo'nos. But then later the Federation would probably lose the Dominion War, so ...
I don't think Genocide would be considered ok. ;;|O.o\
I've never trusted Klingons, and I never will.
We are the Federation. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I don't believe he is entirely human.
(Any more??? Could have been at one time)
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin