I stated that the war might have not happened not that it wouldn't have happened. We don't know how events would have played out if Burnham wasn't around to attempt her mutiny or kill T'Kuvma. All we do know is that Burnham had a major effect on the outcome of the battle since she killed T'Kuvma. So Burnham's actions during the Battle of the Binary Stars changed the timeline even if the Klingon War happened in the original timeline.
We don't know how T'Kuvma would have reacted during the Klingon War if he was still alive. Part of the reason for T'Kuvma's War on the Federation was as a means to unify the Klingon Houses. So if he survived, then he might have unified the Klingon Houses and become Emperor instead of L'Rell.
And I agree. The point is and was, Burnham's actions didn't cause the war, so the war would have happened regardless of if she was alive or not.
But we don't know that. We don't know if Georgiou or someone else would have come up with some plan to stop the war from happening due to Burnham's actions. Burnham forced them down a certain path which resulted in war. All we can say is that the timeline was changed because Burnham wasn't killed or severely injured as a child.
I stated that the war might have not happened not that it wouldn't have happened. We don't know how events would have played out if Burnham wasn't around to attempt her mutiny or kill T'Kuvma. All we do know is that Burnham had a major effect on the outcome of the battle since she killed T'Kuvma. So Burnham's actions during the Battle of the Binary Stars changed the timeline even if the Klingon War happened in the original timeline.
We don't know how T'Kuvma would have reacted during the Klingon War if he was still alive. Part of the reason for T'Kuvma's War on the Federation was as a means to unify the Klingon Houses. So if he survived, then he might have unified the Klingon Houses and become Emperor instead of L'Rell.
And I agree. The point is and was, Burnham's actions didn't cause the war, so the war would have happened regardless of if she was alive or not.
But we don't know that. We don't know if Georgiou or someone else would have come up with some plan to stop the war from happening due to Burnham's actions. Burnham forced them down a certain path which resulted in war. All we can say is that the timeline was changed because Burnham wasn't killed or severely injured as a child.
There are plenty of potential ripple effects - if Burnham is as good as the show implies, then Georgiou might have had a different first officer aboard the Shenzou that was less qualified, and maybe the ship, or Georgiou, wouldn ahve been lost earlier. Good still lead to the war, since there doesn't seem to be anything obvious that would alter T'Kuvmas goals.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
what forests? vulcan is a desert world - deserts don't usually have enough trees to make a full forest, if they have trees at all
Mono-climatic planets are common in science fiction, but not really realistic. And desert planets do not really seem as a likely place to support a population of billions of humanoids.
What I don't know is if the Discovery scenes on Vulcan are playing during the regional autumn, or if
Vulcan leaves are usually red/brown. I suspect the latter. Of course, that doesn't mean that it doesn't have more deserts than Earth, or no deserts. But it's simply not all desert, all the time.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I stated that the war might have not happened not that it wouldn't have happened. We don't know how events would have played out if Burnham wasn't around to attempt her mutiny or kill T'Kuvma. All we do know is that Burnham had a major effect on the outcome of the battle since she killed T'Kuvma. So Burnham's actions during the Battle of the Binary Stars changed the timeline even if the Klingon War happened in the original timeline.
We don't know how T'Kuvma would have reacted during the Klingon War if he was still alive. Part of the reason for T'Kuvma's War on the Federation was as a means to unify the Klingon Houses. So if he survived, then he might have unified the Klingon Houses and become Emperor instead of L'Rell.
And I agree. The point is and was, Burnham's actions didn't cause the war, so the war would have happened regardless of if she was alive or not.
But we don't know that. We don't know if Georgiou or someone else would have come up with some plan to stop the war from happening due to Burnham's actions. Burnham forced them down a certain path which resulted in war. All we can say is that the timeline was changed because Burnham wasn't killed or severely injured as a child.
There are plenty of potential ripple effects - if Burnham is as good as the show implies, then Georgiou might have had a different first officer aboard the Shenzou that was less qualified, and maybe the ship, or Georgiou, wouldn ahve been lost earlier. Good still lead to the war, since there doesn't seem to be anything obvious that would alter T'Kuvmas goals.
A good officer would not attempt a mutiny just because they disagreed with their Captain. If T'Kuvma won the battle instead of being killed by Burnham, then he would have used the momentum from his victory to unite the houses. So any Klingon War would have been as a unified military instead of a bunch of different Klingon factions attacking the Federation. However, unifying the Klingon Houses would take time which could have resulted in the cold war situation that we had in TOS.
Burnham's existence is the simplest explanation for most of the differences between TOS and Discovery. It explains why there was no mention of a Spore Drive, no Section 31 presence, why Spock never mentioned his human foster sister, and why it never felt like there was a major Federation-Klingon War about 10 years ago.
what forests? vulcan is a desert world - deserts don't usually have enough trees to make a full forest, if they have trees at all
Mono-climatic planets are common in science fiction, but not really realistic. And desert planets do not really seem as a likely place to support a population of billions of humanoids.
What I don't know is if the Discovery scenes on Vulcan are playing during the regional autumn, or if
Vulcan leaves are usually red/brown. I suspect the latter. Of course, that doesn't mean that it doesn't have more deserts than Earth, or no deserts. But it's simply not all desert, all the time.
3 different pictures, all in different years and likely at different times of the year as well, and multiple shots of land - not a single speck of green in any of them, nor any sign of a forest
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
A good officer would not attempt a mutiny just because they disagreed with their Captain. If T'Kuvma won the battle instead of being killed by Burnham, then he would have used the momentum from his victory to unite the houses. So any Klingon War would have been as a unified military instead of a bunch of different Klingon factions attacking the Federation. However, unifying the Klingon Houses would take time which could have resulted in the cold war situation that we had in TOS.
You seem to forget, the Klingons WERE united for the start of the war under Kol. It was only after Kol was killed above Pahvo that the houses started going off on their own in the 9 months before Discovery got back from the Mirror Unvierse.
Only a few of the houses were united under Kol while those that were not willing to ally with Kol were expelled from the Klingon High Council. T'Kuvma was trying to unite all the Great Houses with his war with the Federation. So the Klingons WERE NOT united for the start of the war under Kol.
"(in Klingonese) They are coming. Atom by atom, they will coil around us and take all that we are. There is one way to confront this threat. By reuniting the twenty-four warring houses of our own empire. We have forgotten the Unforgettable, the last to unify our tribes: Kahless. Together, under one creed, remain Klingon! That is why we light our beacon this day. To assemble our people. To lock arms against those whose fatal greeting is… (in English) we come in peace."
Burnham's existence is the simplest explanation for most of the differences between TOS and Discovery. It explains why there was no mention of a Spore Drive, no Section 31 presence, why Spock never mentioned his human foster sister, and why it never felt like there was a major Federation-Klingon War about 10 years ago.
This doesn't make sense. In the Trek timeline we know that the Federation continues to exist into the year 3,000+. However, the Red Angel, and the space probes, comes from the 2750's, in a timeline in which those probes destroy all the planets as per Spock's visions.
This means the timeline in which Burnham dies cannot be the "true" timeline, and that the one where Burnham lives, and they stop it is.
It is pure speculation that the Red Angel and the 'probe' aliens come from the same time or even what time the Red Angel came from. Also, there is no evidence that the 'probe' aliens are even responsible for the destruction of countless planets in the future. They are clearly hostile since they modified the probe to destroy a shuttle and infect Airiam, but that doesn't prove that they destroyed countless planets. For all we know, the 'probe' aliens accomplished what Quark was trying to do in the Roswell episode, give advanced technology to their ancestors. We know that the 'probe' aliens infected Airiam and it is assumed that Airiam sent those messages, but we don't know what was in the messages.
Also, we have no idea when those planets were destroyed. It could be the 35th Century or the 25th Century considering how often Star Trek gets into temporal shenanigans. 31st Century Earth was devastated when Daniels brought Archer to his time. So just because there was a Federation in the 31st Century in Enterprise doesn't mean there is a Federation in the 31st Century in Discovery due to some time traveler messing around with time and the Red Angel having to save countless planets. The original timeline could have a 31st Century Federation and the Federation destroyed in the 25th Century since timelines are extremely malleable in Star Trek.
It is pure speculation that the Red Angel and the 'probe' aliens come from the same time or even what time the Red Angel came from.
Please, the squid probe literally came out of a temporal vortex created by the Red Angel's trip to Kaminar. And why would the Red Angel even care otherwise?
Also, there is no evidence that the 'probe' aliens are even responsible for the destruction of countless planets in the future.
We literally see the probe ships firing torpedoes that hit planets and said planets blow up.
Time does not work the same in that temporal temporal anomaly. From the Light and Shadows episode, "This plasma burn looks like it happened a week ago, this one yesterday, and the third one Eight minutes from now. No, your math is spot-on.
Nonlinear temporal progression is a mind bender." So just because it came out of a temporal vortex created by the Red Angel's trip to Kaminar doesn't mean it came from the same time.
Had to take a careful look at the 'probe' ships which only appears for less 5 seconds in the entire episode and one of them looks exactly like the probe ship, but no tentacles. You see more of planets blowing up than the ships. My main impression of the modified probe is that it was a torpedo with tentacles and the ships blowing up planets had no tentacles.
Since infected Airiam likely sent a signal to her 'probe' masters, then it is likely that the timeline has changed again and they will show up sooner to destroy planets. The only information that we know about the 'probe' aliens is that it attacked a shuttle with tentacles, infected Airiam, and made an apocalyptic appearance in Spock's vision.
what forests? vulcan is a desert world - deserts don't usually have enough trees to make a full forest, if they have trees at all
Mono-climatic planets are common in science fiction, but not really realistic. And desert planets do not really seem as a likely place to support a population of billions of humanoids.
What I don't know is if the Discovery scenes on Vulcan are playing during the regional autumn, or if
Vulcan leaves are usually red/brown. I suspect the latter. Of course, that doesn't mean that it doesn't have more deserts than Earth, or no deserts. But it's simply not all desert, all the time.
3 different pictures, all in different years and likely at different times of the year as well, and multiple shots of land - not a single speck of green in any of them, nor any sign of a forest
3 different pictures are somehow sufficient to tell: "This planet is entirely a desert and has no vegetation whatsoever?"
Unfortunately, we now have several pictures of Vulcan that show (red-leaved) vegetation. Coincidentally, there was also some rain. We must be in the Red-Leaves-Timeline than.
---
Red leaves... That reminds me - the Doctor that was with Spock in the asylum, she was a major character in the 12 Monkeys TV show. Which also featured a "Red Forest"... Funny.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I heard elsewhere that Star Trek is apparently normally not a big thing in Spain. But i guess it's still a known brand name, so when it is released on Netflix, people check it out - and it appears they also stick with it.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
DSC. No other series is prefixed with the initials ST so there's no reason to do so for DSC, and look stupid to boot as your edgy acronym is censored.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
That doen't surprise me in the least. Dark sets, people staring and being cranky all the time ("Fresse" in German) and things always go wrong. That's like a German show to begin with
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
what forests? vulcan is a desert world - deserts don't usually have enough trees to make a full forest, if they have trees at all
Mono-climatic planets are common in science fiction, but not really realistic. And desert planets do not really seem as a likely place to support a population of billions of humanoids.
What I don't know is if the Discovery scenes on Vulcan are playing during the regional autumn, or if
Vulcan leaves are usually red/brown. I suspect the latter. Of course, that doesn't mean that it doesn't have more deserts than Earth, or no deserts. But it's simply not all desert, all the time.
3 different pictures, all in different years and likely at different times of the year as well, and multiple shots of land - not a single speck of green in any of them, nor any sign of a forest
3 different pictures are somehow sufficient to tell: "This planet is entirely a desert and has no vegetation whatsoever?"
Unfortunately, we now have several pictures of Vulcan that show (red-leaved) vegetation. Coincidentally, there was also some rain. We must be in the Red-Leaves-Timeline than.
---
Red leaves... That reminds me - the Doctor that was with Spock in the asylum, she was a major character in the 12 Monkeys TV show. Which also featured a "Red Forest"... Funny.
actually tha'ts a plus for Discovery-they acknowledge that to have a liveable biosphere, you can have high temperatures, but you probably won't have a breathable atmo for a sustainable period if you don't have precipitation and plenty of water.
at least, not for humanoid critters or advanced mammals. you need that carbon-dioxide sink (green, or in this case, possibly red, plants), and water to have complex mammalian organisms.
aka they're moving away from the rather stupid idea of 'Desert planets' being inhabited.
I mean, Voyager already terminated that idea in 'Caretaker'. Janeway comments that the Ocampan Homeworld lacks 'nucleogenics', with Tuvok commenting that that would suggest "the planet is incapable of generating rain". Janeway then adds that she's never seen an M-Class planet without nuceogenics. Thus, we can infer that Vulcan does have nucleogenics, which means it can produce rain, which means balance of probability is it has vegetation. DSC just confirmed what was already true in-universe (aside from that, we repeatedly hear about Vucan plomeek soup and spice tea - exactly how would they grow their tea without water? For that matter, howwould they get any food if Vulcan was a completely barren world? All life forms need some form of food, and vegetation is the starting point of the food chain.)
you know...the link i posted several posts above and was apparently completely ignored showed one of the space shots of vulcan with a big blue spot on it - that would be WATER
and of course there is vegetation because any idiot who has even the most basic knowledge of desert geography KNOWS they have vegetation - that was never in question, but vegetation != forest!
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
> @patrickngo said: > shadowfang240 wrote: » > > you know...the link i posted several posts above and was apparently completely ignored showed one of the space shots of vulcan with a big blue spot on it - that would be WATER > > and of course there is vegetation because any idiot who has even the most basic knowledge of desert geography KNOWS they have vegetation - that was never in question, but vegetation != forest! > > > > > to have a liveable biosphere, you need enough vegetation and climate variation to support a viable biosphere, that's something the 'Biosphere' guys found out the hard way (someone made a comedy called 'Biodome' about it even). > > You can't have a single biome, if nothing else, sparse vegetation has to be made up for by algae or equivalents, or you don't get an oxygen percentage in your atmosphere that is consistent with large, oxygen-using organisms such as rats, cats, dogs, humans, or vulcans and Sehlatts. > > so MAYBE, while lots of Vulcan is reddish-brown, it isn't devoid of forests, plains, even jungles and oceans, but maybe not on the 'green' spectrum. depending on solar output, green might not be the ideal color for absorbing that life-powering sunlight, but maybe red and brown ARE.
to have a liveable biosphere, you need enough vegetation and climate variation to support a viable biosphere, that's something the 'Biosphere' guys found out the hard way (someone made a comedy called 'Biodome' about it even).
You can't have a single biome, if nothing else, sparse vegetation has to be made up for by algae or equivalents, or you don't get an oxygen percentage in your atmosphere that is consistent with large, oxygen-using organisms such as rats, cats, dogs, humans, or vulcans and Sehlatts.
Alternatively, you could have pseudo-insects (tiny creatures that fill a similar ecological niche to insects on Earth) that breathe nitrogen instead of oxygen. I have read some fascinating hypothesis regarding "super-oxygenated silt oceans" that work with heavy weather systems to maintain a nitrogen-oxygen cycle for a breathable arid or desert world.
you know...the link i posted several posts above and was apparently completely ignored showed one of the space shots of vulcan with a big blue spot on it - that would be WATER
and of course there is vegetation because any idiot who has even the most basic knowledge of desert geography KNOWS they have vegetation - that was never in question, but vegetation != forest!
to have a liveable biosphere, you need enough vegetation and climate variation to support a viable biosphere, that's something the 'Biosphere' guys found out the hard way (someone made a comedy called 'Biodome' about it even).
You can't have a single biome, if nothing else, sparse vegetation has to be made up for by algae or equivalents, or you don't get an oxygen percentage in your atmosphere that is consistent with large, oxygen-using organisms such as rats, cats, dogs, humans, or vulcans and Sehlatts.
so MAYBE, while lots of Vulcan is reddish-brown, it isn't devoid of forests, plains, even jungles and oceans, but maybe not on the 'green' spectrum. depending on solar output, green might not be the ideal color for absorbing that life-powering sunlight, but maybe red and brown ARE.
Additionally, chlorophyll may not be Vulcans solution for photosynthesis.
you know...the link i posted several posts above and was apparently completely ignored showed one of the space shots of vulcan with a big blue spot on it - that would be WATER
and of course there is vegetation because any idiot who has even the most basic knowledge of desert geography KNOWS they have vegetation - that was never in question, but vegetation != forest!
to have a liveable biosphere, you need enough vegetation and climate variation to support a viable biosphere, that's something the 'Biosphere' guys found out the hard way (someone made a comedy called 'Biodome' about it even).
You can't have a single biome, if nothing else, sparse vegetation has to be made up for by algae or equivalents, or you don't get an oxygen percentage in your atmosphere that is consistent with large, oxygen-using organisms such as rats, cats, dogs, humans, or vulcans and Sehlatts.
so MAYBE, while lots of Vulcan is reddish-brown, it isn't devoid of forests, plains, even jungles and oceans, but maybe not on the 'green' spectrum. depending on solar output, green might not be the ideal color for absorbing that life-powering sunlight, but maybe red and brown ARE.
Additionally, chlorophyll may not be Vulcans solution for photosynthesis.
Each alien planet would use a different compound for optimal photosynthesis based on the atmosphere and solar spectrum. There might even be some algae in Vulcan's oceans that make their oceans red.
you know...the link i posted several posts above and was apparently completely ignored showed one of the space shots of vulcan with a big blue spot on it - that would be WATER
and of course there is vegetation because any idiot who has even the most basic knowledge of desert geography KNOWS they have vegetation - that was never in question, but vegetation != forest!
to have a liveable biosphere, you need enough vegetation and climate variation to support a viable biosphere, that's something the 'Biosphere' guys found out the hard way (someone made a comedy called 'Biodome' about it even).
You can't have a single biome, if nothing else, sparse vegetation has to be made up for by algae or equivalents, or you don't get an oxygen percentage in your atmosphere that is consistent with large, oxygen-using organisms such as rats, cats, dogs, humans, or vulcans and Sehlatts.
so MAYBE, while lots of Vulcan is reddish-brown, it isn't devoid of forests, plains, even jungles and oceans, but maybe not on the 'green' spectrum. depending on solar output, green might not be the ideal color for absorbing that life-powering sunlight, but maybe red and brown ARE.
Additionally, chlorophyll may not be Vulcans solution for photosynthesis.
Each alien planet would use a different compound for optimal photosynthesis based on the atmosphere and solar spectrum. There might even be some algae in Vulcan's oceans that make their oceans red.
Fun fact: chlorophyll comes in several colors on Earth. These range from blue to red.
Fun fact: chlorophyll comes in several colors on Earth. These range from blue to red.
It's not the chlorophyll that is blue or red (chlorophyll always seems green in different shades since it reflects the green wavelengths and absorbs mostly blue and red) but there are red and blue plants. They still condnuct photosynthesis because they don't have less chlorophyll, but due to various reasons other pigments are just more visible. For instance, there is a mutant of the common beech which is varying shades of red and purple during the vegetation period. That is because it lacks an enzyme which usually dissolves anthocyanin (purple pigments) in the 'normal' beech.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
The probe aliens were far too disappointing due to revealing what they were in the episode immediately after they destroy a bunch of planets in Spock's vision, but at least we figured out what Airiam was. This episode makes me wonder what the Admirals were smoking to make such a stupid mistake. Hasn't 20th Century Science Fiction revealed what a stupid idea that was? I would expect such a stupid mistake being done by 20th Century or 21st Century Admirals not ones from the 23rd Century.
It would be interesting to see when that message that allegedly Tyler sent in If Memory Serves happened and when the Project Daedalus episode occurs to see if it matches up with the two weeks mentioned in Project Daedalus.
Comments
But we don't know that. We don't know if Georgiou or someone else would have come up with some plan to stop the war from happening due to Burnham's actions. Burnham forced them down a certain path which resulted in war. All we can say is that the timeline was changed because Burnham wasn't killed or severely injured as a child.
There are plenty of potential ripple effects - if Burnham is as good as the show implies, then Georgiou might have had a different first officer aboard the Shenzou that was less qualified, and maybe the ship, or Georgiou, wouldn ahve been lost earlier. Good still lead to the war, since there doesn't seem to be anything obvious that would alter T'Kuvmas goals.
What I don't know is if the Discovery scenes on Vulcan are playing during the regional autumn, or if
Vulcan leaves are usually red/brown. I suspect the latter. Of course, that doesn't mean that it doesn't have more deserts than Earth, or no deserts. But it's simply not all desert, all the time.
A good officer would not attempt a mutiny just because they disagreed with their Captain. If T'Kuvma won the battle instead of being killed by Burnham, then he would have used the momentum from his victory to unite the houses. So any Klingon War would have been as a unified military instead of a bunch of different Klingon factions attacking the Federation. However, unifying the Klingon Houses would take time which could have resulted in the cold war situation that we had in TOS.
Burnham's existence is the simplest explanation for most of the differences between TOS and Discovery. It explains why there was no mention of a Spore Drive, no Section 31 presence, why Spock never mentioned his human foster sister, and why it never felt like there was a major Federation-Klingon War about 10 years ago.
no...it really is: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Vulcan_(planet)
3 different pictures, all in different years and likely at different times of the year as well, and multiple shots of land - not a single speck of green in any of them, nor any sign of a forest
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Only a few of the houses were united under Kol while those that were not willing to ally with Kol were expelled from the Klingon High Council. T'Kuvma was trying to unite all the Great Houses with his war with the Federation. So the Klingons WERE NOT united for the start of the war under Kol.
"(in Klingonese) They are coming. Atom by atom, they will coil around us and take all that we are. There is one way to confront this threat. By reuniting the twenty-four warring houses of our own empire. We have forgotten the Unforgettable, the last to unify our tribes: Kahless. Together, under one creed, remain Klingon! That is why we light our beacon this day. To assemble our people. To lock arms against those whose fatal greeting is… (in English) we come in peace."
It is pure speculation that the Red Angel and the 'probe' aliens come from the same time or even what time the Red Angel came from. Also, there is no evidence that the 'probe' aliens are even responsible for the destruction of countless planets in the future. They are clearly hostile since they modified the probe to destroy a shuttle and infect Airiam, but that doesn't prove that they destroyed countless planets. For all we know, the 'probe' aliens accomplished what Quark was trying to do in the Roswell episode, give advanced technology to their ancestors. We know that the 'probe' aliens infected Airiam and it is assumed that Airiam sent those messages, but we don't know what was in the messages.
Also, we have no idea when those planets were destroyed. It could be the 35th Century or the 25th Century considering how often Star Trek gets into temporal shenanigans. 31st Century Earth was devastated when Daniels brought Archer to his time. So just because there was a Federation in the 31st Century in Enterprise doesn't mean there is a Federation in the 31st Century in Discovery due to some time traveler messing around with time and the Red Angel having to save countless planets. The original timeline could have a 31st Century Federation and the Federation destroyed in the 25th Century since timelines are extremely malleable in Star Trek.
Time does not work the same in that temporal temporal anomaly. From the Light and Shadows episode, "This plasma burn looks like it happened a week ago, this one yesterday, and the third one Eight minutes from now. No, your math is spot-on.
Nonlinear temporal progression is a mind bender." So just because it came out of a temporal vortex created by the Red Angel's trip to Kaminar doesn't mean it came from the same time.
Had to take a careful look at the 'probe' ships which only appears for less 5 seconds in the entire episode and one of them looks exactly like the probe ship, but no tentacles. You see more of planets blowing up than the ships. My main impression of the modified probe is that it was a torpedo with tentacles and the ships blowing up planets had no tentacles.
Since infected Airiam likely sent a signal to her 'probe' masters, then it is likely that the timeline has changed again and they will show up sooner to destroy planets. The only information that we know about the 'probe' aliens is that it attacked a shuttle with tentacles, infected Airiam, and made an apocalyptic appearance in Spock's vision.
3 different pictures are somehow sufficient to tell: "This planet is entirely a desert and has no vegetation whatsoever?"
Unfortunately, we now have several pictures of Vulcan that show (red-leaved) vegetation. Coincidentally, there was also some rain. We must be in the Red-Leaves-Timeline than.
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Red leaves... That reminds me - the Doctor that was with Spock in the asylum, she was a major character in the 12 Monkeys TV show. Which also featured a "Red Forest"... Funny.
TRIBBLE appears to be popular in Germany .
https://fueradeseries.com/power-rankings-star-trek-discovery-recupera-la-primera-posicion-f6a92c96129e
Google Translated:
I heard elsewhere that Star Trek is apparently normally not a big thing in Spain. But i guess it's still a known brand name, so when it is released on Netflix, people check it out - and it appears they also stick with it.
DSC. No other series is prefixed with the initials ST so there's no reason to do so for DSC, and look stupid to boot as your edgy acronym is censored.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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That doen't surprise me in the least. Dark sets, people staring and being cranky all the time ("Fresse" in German) and things always go wrong. That's like a German show to begin with
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Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
I mean, Voyager already terminated that idea in 'Caretaker'. Janeway comments that the Ocampan Homeworld lacks 'nucleogenics', with Tuvok commenting that that would suggest "the planet is incapable of generating rain". Janeway then adds that she's never seen an M-Class planet without nuceogenics. Thus, we can infer that Vulcan does have nucleogenics, which means it can produce rain, which means balance of probability is it has vegetation. DSC just confirmed what was already true in-universe (aside from that, we repeatedly hear about Vucan plomeek soup and spice tea - exactly how would they grow their tea without water? For that matter, howwould they get any food if Vulcan was a completely barren world? All life forms need some form of food, and vegetation is the starting point of the food chain.)
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
and of course there is vegetation because any idiot who has even the most basic knowledge of desert geography KNOWS they have vegetation - that was never in question, but vegetation != forest!
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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> shadowfang240 wrote: »
>
> you know...the link i posted several posts above and was apparently completely ignored showed one of the space shots of vulcan with a big blue spot on it - that would be WATER
>
> and of course there is vegetation because any idiot who has even the most basic knowledge of desert geography KNOWS they have vegetation - that was never in question, but vegetation != forest!
>
>
>
>
> to have a liveable biosphere, you need enough vegetation and climate variation to support a viable biosphere, that's something the 'Biosphere' guys found out the hard way (someone made a comedy called 'Biodome' about it even).
>
> You can't have a single biome, if nothing else, sparse vegetation has to be made up for by algae or equivalents, or you don't get an oxygen percentage in your atmosphere that is consistent with large, oxygen-using organisms such as rats, cats, dogs, humans, or vulcans and Sehlatts.
>
> so MAYBE, while lots of Vulcan is reddish-brown, it isn't devoid of forests, plains, even jungles and oceans, but maybe not on the 'green' spectrum. depending on solar output, green might not be the ideal color for absorbing that life-powering sunlight, but maybe red and brown ARE.
Excellent points .
Alternatively, you could have pseudo-insects (tiny creatures that fill a similar ecological niche to insects on Earth) that breathe nitrogen instead of oxygen. I have read some fascinating hypothesis regarding "super-oxygenated silt oceans" that work with heavy weather systems to maintain a nitrogen-oxygen cycle for a breathable arid or desert world.
Does not solve the lack of water issue though.
Additionally, chlorophyll may not be Vulcans solution for photosynthesis.
Each alien planet would use a different compound for optimal photosynthesis based on the atmosphere and solar spectrum. There might even be some algae in Vulcan's oceans that make their oceans red.
My character Tsin'xing
It's not the chlorophyll that is blue or red (chlorophyll always seems green in different shades since it reflects the green wavelengths and absorbs mostly blue and red) but there are red and blue plants. They still condnuct photosynthesis because they don't have less chlorophyll, but due to various reasons other pigments are just more visible. For instance, there is a mutant of the common beech which is varying shades of red and purple during the vegetation period. That is because it lacks an enzyme which usually dissolves anthocyanin (purple pigments) in the 'normal' beech.
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It would be interesting to see when that message that allegedly Tyler sent in If Memory Serves happened and when the Project Daedalus episode occurs to see if it matches up with the two weeks mentioned in Project Daedalus.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood