Without the name drops in Discovery, it is extremely easy to set Discovery 10 years after Voyager instead of 10 years before TOS. Rename the Klingons to some other alien race, some minor modifications to the other Starfleet ships so they don't look like the NX, get rid of the name drops and Discovery becomes a sequel instead of a prequel. Enterprise was extremely good at establishing that it was set 100 years before TOS even with the updated look. A prequel is supposed to feel like a prequel which is missing in Discovery.
At least the question of where Discovery ended up will be answered on Sunday.
Without the name drops in Discovery, it is extremely easy to set Discovery 10 years after Voyager instead of 10 years before TOS. Rename the Klingons to some other alien race, some minor modifications to the other Starfleet ships so they don't look like the NX, get rid of the name drops and Discovery becomes a sequel instead of a prequel. Enterprise was extremely good at establishing that it was set 100 years before TOS even with the updated look. A prequel is supposed to feel like a prequel which is missing in Discovery.
At least the question of where Discovery ended up will be answered on Sunday.
Enterprise looked fine, to me, it looked less advanced than TOS, the NX, for example was gnarly and greebly, as opposed to smooth, sleek and simple.
nobody's heard from the Klingons in HOW long, and Burnham is HOW old? And she's supposed to be a survivor of a raid when NOBODY HAS HEARD FROM THEM IN A CENTURY?
You should actually watch the show before you comment on it. They state they have had no significant contact with the Klingons OUTSIDE OF RAIDS AND SMALL SKIRMISHES in a century. Not that they have had zero contact with them at all in that time frame.
Somehow, with Spock's Katra, Bones couldn't administer a vulcan nerve pinch, and he's carrying the psychic mojo of a 200 year old Vulcan in him...but Burnham administers it like it's a daily ritual.
Burnham was actually trained on how to do it since she lived on Vulcan with Vulcans. McCoy was not, since he did not. Also
-Archer
-Picard
-Data
-Odo
-Seven of Nine
All used the nerve pinch at least once. Archer and Picard showed the ability to do it while carrying, or after having done so, the karta of a Vulcan(Surak in Archer's case, and Sarek in Picard's case). McCoy was just bad at it.
then we get the brig you can open the door by asking nicely. (Whut?).
Nice reductio ad absurdum. She opened the door by proving to the ship's computer how not doing so would kill her, and thus violate basic ethical protocols.
not even getting to the infinitely improbable opening of the third episode here. (here's a hint: you don't transfer prisoners in unescorted shuttles near a war zone. you don't transfer prisoners with national security secrets in their heads in unescorted shuttles during a war, esp.. when the enemy can blind your sensors and penetrate deep as demonstrated in the very first episode. even ARCHER's starfleet wasn't that stupid, and they only had one ship!)
Burnham wasn't being transferred in a war zone, she was being transported to the plant Elas in the Tellun system, which was in Federation space, and not at the border with the Klingon Empire where the war was going on.
Here's a map for reference
Val, when you're moving a prisoner with national security secrets in their head, you don't send them out on an un-escorted shuttle Period. That's like putting a group of prisoners in a van and driving them cross-country with only the driver for a guard. it's not something you do in peacetime on an intra system or intercontinental, or intercity, run, nevermind interstellar-you're running a prisoner who's got the training to succeed in hijacking the ship, she committed mutiny on a Starship and overrode the automated guard system in the brig. This isn't someone you trust to behave for multiple hours less than ten feet from the controls of a warp-capable craft.
I am surprised that they don't use drugs to transport prisoners. An unconscious prisoner is a well-behaved prisoner.
mccoy had arthritis - his inability to perform a vulcan nerve pinch had nothing to do with mental deficits or lack of training; he physically couldn't perform something that requires the very finest of motions with inflammed joints
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A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
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In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
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The difference is, Val, that TNG had something to offer that wasn't just a name-drop.
Right... it had convoluted plots that included such dumb things as having Picard mind-meld with Spock so that Spock could mind-meld with Sarek by proxy.... Oh and most of the Tasha Yar centered episodes were dumb.
Somehow, with Spock's Katra, Bones couldn't administer a vulcan nerve pinch, and he's carrying the psychic mojo of a 200 year old Vulcan in him...but Burnham administers it like it's a daily ritual.
Actually, Spock mentioned that the nerve pinch requires considerable physical strength. It's entirely believable that McCoy couldn't do it, even with Spock's mind in his body, because he lacked the physical strength needed. To borrow a phrase "I'm a doctor, not a security guard!"
there are no front lines in an interstellar war. There's also no 'safe rear area'. It's island-hopping, because this isn't France in 1917, moving at the pace of a marching man, with terrain obstacles and terrain that can be USED as an obstacle to define "This is the front line" and "This is the nice, safe rear."
Except that isn't how war in Star Trek has even been portrayed. Even back in DS9, during the Dominion War, there were very clearly defined front lines. No one does space-war like island hopping in Star Trek, this is canon.
Same with Discovery where the star map shown on the Discovery has clearly defined dotted front line where the order was before the war, and where the borders are now during the war, just like maps back in DS9 during the Dominion War had.
The Federation set up its a rather expansive starbase network to defend its borders, and the Federation/Klingon border is littered with 22 outposts, supported by 4 different starbases, in order to make a wall to push back the Klingons in case they tried to attack.
are you aware that space is three dimensional, Som? Fixed emplacements only work in two dimensional movement. They'd have to put a roof over the Federation, and a floor, before your line of starbases would pose the slightest barrier.
That's like saying real-world borders are meaningless because airplanes can fly over walls.... I mean think about it.... what happens if a boat or plane IRL trespasses into US territory? Why would a fictional counterpart be different?
mccoy had arthritis - his inability to perform a vulcan nerve pinch had nothing to do with mental deficits or lack of training; he physically couldn't perform something that requires the very finest of motions with inflammed joints
Wow... I never thought about that. I remember that something like that was pointed out in Undiscovered Country (when they question his fitness to operate on a Klingon), was it mentioned prior as well? But it certainly makes sense.
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Strictly speaking, @patrickngo is right when he says there are no safe zones in TRIBBLE's Klingon war, for a certain definition of "safe" (such as "cannot be damaged by a hit-and-run attack"), and for a certain kind of asset (in this case, a lone shuttle). This follows logically from a variety of facts, some of which have been brought up in this discussion:
The Klingons have cloaking technology. Granted, I'm not sure how many cloak-capable ships they during that specific episode, but that's another matter.
A cloaked ship would be capable of penetrating Federation borders with impunity - especially given the absence of tachyon detection grids in this period - and going as deep into Federation space as its supplies can take it.
Further strategic implications depend on the tactical capabilities of their particular cloaking device and the ships they use. IIRC, the Federation's defeats were mitigated solely by Discovery's activities, so it's pretty bad.
Warp travel has little to no navigational limitations aside from crashing into something, and its speed is heavily limited.
Depending on the presence and quality of early warning systems and nearby Federation patrols and garrisons, it may be plausible that a Klingon fleet could slip past the border even without a cloaking device, inflicting a variable degree of damage before being intercepted. A sufficiently powerful force could even seize control of a star system until a counterattack could be mounted.
The spore drive's instantaneity neatly circumvents any early warning systems and drastically limits the radius within which troops can be mobilized and still arrive at the battlefield before Discovery escapes, which is why it was such a valuable asset. (Widespread use of the spore drive would probably generate effects similar to those of the teraport in Schlock Mercenary.)
However, there are factors which still encourage rigidly-defined borders, some of which are also visible in the Masterverse (despite it being a few centuries ahead in terms of technology). First off, the limited speed of warp travel means that it takes time to get reinforcements and supplies to a location. Positioning is non-trivial, and 'island hopping' would require an invincible force capable of generating its own supplies. The Klingons have neither, and this is not a minor skirmish intended to damage or steal something. This is a war of conquest, so you need to be able to defend a system once you've taken it.
Basically, while individual assets might be threatened behind Federation lines, the Klingons still need to push the border back in order to keep whatever they attack.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
The Klingons have cloaking technology. Granted, I'm not sure how many cloak-capable ships they during that specific episode, but that's another matter.
A cloaked ship would be capable of penetrating Federation borders with impunity - especially given the absence of tachyon detection grids in this period - and going as deep into Federation space as its supplies can take it.
Further strategic implications depend on the tactical capabilities of their particular cloaking device and the ships they use. IIRC, the Federation's defeats were mitigated solely by Discovery's activities, so it's pretty bad.
It's like Spock said in TOS. the Feds had never seen ships that were actually undetectable until the Romulans did it. In Discovery there's a clear limitation. The Klingon ships can be detected on long range scanners, and short range scans have difficulty pinpointing them. They can't be seen with a mk1 eyeball, but that's the only way they're invisible.
The difference is, Val, that TNG had something to offer that wasn't just a name-drop.
Discovery has something to offer too. It may not be to your liking and that's fine, but it has something to offer other than your ridiculous "name-dropping" silliness.
again, taken on it's OWN merits the series is weak at best, so they have to insert 'familiar thing from Trek here, and h ere, and here..." because it's the only way it has ANY appeal.
Again, this same thing can be used against TNG (or any other post TOS Trek).
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[Pre-Censored Picture of L'Rell abusing Ash Tyler]
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At least the question of where Discovery ended up will be answered on Sunday.
Enterprise looked fine, to me, it looked less advanced than TOS, the NX, for example was gnarly and greebly, as opposed to smooth, sleek and simple.
And a lot of things are missing in Discovery. >_>
I am surprised that they don't use drugs to transport prisoners. An unconscious prisoner is a well-behaved prisoner.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
However, there are factors which still encourage rigidly-defined borders, some of which are also visible in the Masterverse (despite it being a few centuries ahead in terms of technology). First off, the limited speed of warp travel means that it takes time to get reinforcements and supplies to a location. Positioning is non-trivial, and 'island hopping' would require an invincible force capable of generating its own supplies. The Klingons have neither, and this is not a minor skirmish intended to damage or steal something. This is a war of conquest, so you need to be able to defend a system once you've taken it.
Basically, while individual assets might be threatened behind Federation lines, the Klingons still need to push the border back in order to keep whatever they attack.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
My character Tsin'xing
[Pre-Censored Picture of L'Rell abusing Ash Tyler]
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth