Cybernetics don't need to be about dealing with some injury, but about making a person do their job better. Star Trek seemed to be against enhancing humans. Their stance about genetic engineering with the Eugenics War and the only significant depiction of cybernetics with the Borg makes it look like only pure humans are the only way to go. So the Prime Universe seems to have a problem with Transhumanism due to Augments and the Borg and Data and the Doctor have to fight for their right to be considered as alive while Discovery doesn't seem to have that problem. It might be due to Discovery being some clandestine ship where Federation rules don't apply instead of being in a parallel universe, but there is no way to tell. Or it could be that the other Star Trek series are about Humanism while Discovery is about Transhumanism.
To be honest, the Federation's, and indeed Trek in general, disdain for genetic augmentation was always something of a massive hypocrisy from a show that constantly tries to preach that technology isn't inherently bad, it's how you use it that matters. Something both DS9 and Enterprise openly lampshaded a few times.
Though, we do see/hear about in TNG and Voyager that there is some limited genetic modification allowed to cure diseases/serious conditions.
There's a theory I kinda like that one of my co-authors came up with (while writing a fic where his Augment character mounted a legal challenge to the kinds of anti-Augment laws that Bashir encountered in "Doctor Bashir, I Presume?"). Essentially, Earth-humans are still traumatized on a societal level by the Eugenics Wars and World War III, and are desperate to believe they've "grown beyond all that", even though they really haven't.
Same guy also developed a story treatment for an alternate Star Trek Into Darkness where it's acknowledged that somebody had to have created Khan Singh and the rest of them. IOW they were villains and mass murderers because they were made to be.
I would suspect Discovery's use of it more frequently is meant to be more in like with DS9 and Enterprise's more mature stance on the matter, rather then the moral high-ground approach taken by TOS and TNG.
I do like this theory, especially since the showrunners have cited DS9 as a major influence. I think it also reflects changing audiences (and showrunners): people these days are (by and large) a lot more comfortable with computing technology and genetic science than they were in the 1960s.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Star Wars applies far more to that Fan commentary due to wiping out decades of stories. At this moment, I prefer the Expanded Universe over The Force Awakened and The Last Jedi even with all its flaws.
It would've helped a lot, I think, if "Franchise" were advancing the timeline instead of retconning it. It' one of the major reasons TNG built a global following and achieved acceptance quickly in spite of pre-release opposition...
LOL what? Define "quickly". "Trek fans" absolutely loathed and lambasted TNG at every opportunity for the first 2 seasons.
The only thing 'retconned' in Discovery are the visuals. I love the visuals, which are updated to reflect modern day. We're already using holographic displays, and a plethora of other things that weren't available in the 60's. I think it's fantastic that they included all this in Discovery. Not forgetting the touch screen displays that were in ENT.
People love forgetting that as to the history 10 years before TOS is set, there is so little you couldn't even write a novella about it. So far we've had a contained story set in a small area of space using technology that is obviously 'top secret' and technically an abject failure, that as history often shows, knowledge of would be 'sealed away' and forgotten about. So far I see no rewriting of canon, other than visuals. Who's to say the Klingons we've seen aren't an ultra-xenophobic group that still used the armour of centuries old Klingons (The ship of the Dead folks!).
Anyway, as to the series, my 2 cents. Lorca obviously has sent the Discovery to another galaxy, and the Spore Drive is virtually kaput. He obviously knew if he returned to Earth, he'd lose his command. Thereby, there'll be no interference with canon.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
The only thing 'retconned' in Discovery are the visuals. I love the visuals, which are updated to reflect modern day. We're already using holographic displays, and a plethora of other things that weren't available in the 60's. I think it's fantastic that they included all this in Discovery. Not forgetting the touch screen displays that were in ENT.
It is the technology that they retconned not just the visuals. Cybernetic implants, Starfleet 'androids', and the Holodeck are all examples of technology that were not present in TOS, but in Discovery. We have no clue if Miranda Jones' Sensor Dress requires cybernetic implants since it was a dress worn over her clothing that allowed her to 'see' better and no visible cybernetic implants unlike Geordi's VISOR. It could be using an implant in her brain to process the information or a more advanced version of non-invasive neural interface similar to the headsets used in VRMMORPG animes like Sword Art Online is used.
Perhaps the reason why Geordi La Forge has a cybernetic implant and Miranda Jones doesn't is due to the amount of information they receive. Wireless transmission of data is just slower and less reliable than a direct connection. Being able to see the full EM spectrum is a great asset to an Engineer, but not as important to a psychologist.
The only thing 'retconned' in Discovery are the visuals. I love the visuals, which are updated to reflect modern day. We're already using holographic displays, and a plethora of other things that weren't available in the 60's. I think it's fantastic that they included all this in Discovery. Not forgetting the touch screen displays that were in ENT.
It is the technology that they retconned not just the visuals. Cybernetic implants, Starfleet 'androids', and the Holodeck are all examples of technology that were not present in TOS, but in Discovery. We have no clue if Miranda Jones' Sensor Dress requires cybernetic implants since it was a dress worn over her clothing that allowed her to 'see' better and no visible cybernetic implants unlike Geordi's VISOR. It could be using an implant in her brain to process the information or a more advanced version of non-invasive neural interface similar to the headsets used in VRMMORPG animes like Sword Art Online is used.
Perhaps the reason why Geordi La Forge has a cybernetic implant and Miranda Jones doesn't is due to the amount of information they receive. Wireless transmission of data is just slower and less reliable than a direct connection. Being able to see the full EM spectrum is a great asset to an Engineer, but not as important to a psychologist.
Unless you think TOS Starfleet had telepathic computers, then Miranda Jones had some sort of cybernetic implant to transfer the information. And seriously... NO member of Discovery's crew is actually an android. There does seem to be more than one cyborg though. Also, Holodecks are a 23rd century tech.
I don't really remember a disdain for Geordi. Just people being unfamiliar with his Visor. Unless you mean the opinion of Romulans about disabled people.
Miranda Jones character is a nice catch. I mean, as a reference for cybernetics. Oh, maybe also for the eyes. Even if she's blind. Err.. emm.
Miranda was an example. She was so secretive about the fact she was blind that the only person she was willing to tell was Dr. McCoy.
The only thing 'retconned' in Discovery are the visuals. I love the visuals, which are updated to reflect modern day. We're already using holographic displays, and a plethora of other things that weren't available in the 60's. I think it's fantastic that they included all this in Discovery. Not forgetting the touch screen displays that were in ENT.
It is the technology that they retconned not just the visuals. Cybernetic implants, Starfleet 'androids', and the Holodeck are all examples of technology that were not present in TOS, but in Discovery. We have no clue if Miranda Jones' Sensor Dress requires cybernetic implants since it was a dress worn over her clothing that allowed her to 'see' better and no visible cybernetic implants unlike Geordi's VISOR. It could be using an implant in her brain to process the information or a more advanced version of non-invasive neural interface similar to the headsets used in VRMMORPG animes like Sword Art Online is used.
Perhaps the reason why Geordi La Forge has a cybernetic implant and Miranda Jones doesn't is due to the amount of information they receive. Wireless transmission of data is just slower and less reliable than a direct connection. Being able to see the full EM spectrum is a great asset to an Engineer, but not as important to a psychologist.
Unless you think TOS Starfleet had telepathic computers, then Miranda Jones had some sort of cybernetic implant to transfer the information. And seriously... NO member of Discovery's crew is actually an android. There does seem to be more than one cyborg though. Also, Holodecks are a 23rd century tech.
The technology in SAO used microwaves to manipulate the brain so the user can interact with the virtual world. There is no evidence how Miranda Jones' Sensor Dress sent the information to her senses. Therefore, cybernetic implants and non-invasive neural interfaces are both valid options.
The Holodeck was 23rd Century tech that was available in 2270 not 2256. Considering that we have not seen a functioning standard Starfleet ship interior, then there is no way to know if Holodecks are standard equipment or being tested by the Discovery crew.
There is no evidence what Airiam is which is why I put android in quotes. Whatever technology used to create or modify Airiam is still something not shown as part of 23rd Century Federation technology. Saying the android girl from Discovery is far clearer than saying the cyborg girl from Discovery since Lieutenant Keyla Detmer is also a cyborg with her cranial implant.
It would've helped a lot, I think, if "Franchise" were advancing the timeline instead of retconning it. It' one of the major reasons TNG built a global following and achieved acceptance quickly in spite of pre-release opposition...
LOL what? Define "quickly". "Trek fans" absolutely loathed and lambasted TNG at every opportunity for the first 2 seasons.
'Quickly' as in TNG was readily accepted in the mass-market in spite of the grumblings of a few fan-rags. Remember the era, there was no 'Internetz', the only think ANYONE had to go by, were ratings, and the ratings were GOOD. Market share and viewer numbers increased, in spite of TNG being "Direct to syndication". It kept a LOT of non-network-affiliated stations alive and above water.
you don't DO THAT if you're not popular.
BBS might have been around in the late 80s for TOS fans to talk about the new Star Trek show. Of course, the long distance charges would be an enormous pain.
The only thing 'retconned' in Discovery are the visuals. I love the visuals, which are updated to reflect modern day. We're already using holographic displays, and a plethora of other things that weren't available in the 60's. I think it's fantastic that they included all this in Discovery. Not forgetting the touch screen displays that were in ENT.
It is the technology that they retconned not just the visuals. Cybernetic implants, Starfleet 'androids', and the Holodeck are all examples of technology that were not present in TOS, but in Discovery. We have no clue if Miranda Jones' Sensor Dress requires cybernetic implants since it was a dress worn over her clothing that allowed her to 'see' better and no visible cybernetic implants unlike Geordi's VISOR. It could be using an implant in her brain to process the information or a more advanced version of non-invasive neural interface similar to the headsets used in VRMMORPG animes like Sword Art Online is used.
Perhaps the reason why Geordi La Forge has a cybernetic implant and Miranda Jones doesn't is due to the amount of information they receive. Wireless transmission of data is just slower and less reliable than a direct connection. Being able to see the full EM spectrum is a great asset to an Engineer, but not as important to a psychologist.
Unless you think TOS Starfleet had telepathic computers, then Miranda Jones had some sort of cybernetic implant to transfer the information. And seriously... NO member of Discovery's crew is actually an android. There does seem to be more than one cyborg though. Also, Holodecks are a 23rd century tech.
The technology in SAO used microwaves to manipulate the brain so the user can interact with the virtual world. There is no evidence how Miranda Jones' Sensor Dress sent the information to her senses. Therefore, cybernetic implants and non-invasive neural interfaces are both valid options.
The Holodeck was 23rd Century tech that was available in 2270 not 2256. Considering that we have not seen a functioning standard Starfleet ship interior, then there is no way to know if Holodecks are standard equipment or being tested by the Discovery crew.
It doesn't really matter if it's standard - just because TOS didn't show the Holodeck doesn't mean it didn't exist. Just that it wasn't shown.
Nor do we really know what limitations the technology had and how those limitations changed over the decades the technology existed.
There is no evidence what Airiam is which is why I put android in quotes. Whatever technology used to create or modify Airiam is still something not shown as part of 23rd Century Federation technology. Saying the android girl from Discovery is far clearer than saying the cyborg girl from Discovery since Lieutenant Keyla Detmer is also a cyborg with her cranial implant.
Not part of 3 seasons of TOS. We mostly saw a single ship and a few colonies and outposts. Of course we didn't see everything that the Federation had to offer.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Seriously... there's no in-universe date for when the Federation first started using holodecks. There are three things we can go on, none of which establishes when the Feds developed the tech. 1: the crew of the NX-01 encountered aliens with a similar tech, 2: TOS era had them, 3: the one in the Ent-D was "new" in some way.
And like I said before, TOS era Feds seemed to view cybernetics as a liability. Or perhaps it'd be better to say they saw it as "primitive".
The nitty gritty of "when" TNG became popular isn't as relevant as the fact that it was the most successful iteration of Star Trek. It ran for seven seasons and had four movies, its success also allowed for the creation of two additional spinoffs.
The problem with Enterprise, the 2009 KT-movies, and now Discovery is that instead of moving forward and forging their own path they are looking to the past. The studios have staked the success of the projects on their ability to milk nostalgia while at the same time trampling over it as they try to modernize the franchise.
It is like a group writing project where each writer tells a portion of a story and then passes the baton to the next writer to continue. You've had several writers take their turns developing and moving the story forward and then you get to a new writer who declares he doesn't like the direction the story took so he is going to go back a few turns and rewrite things to take the story into a direction he does like. The problem with this is that it is totally disrespectful to the previous writers and the audience.
The core of this problem seems to be rooted into the basic concepts of who actually owns our cultural icons, a flaw with modern copyright monopolies. Star Trek has been around for over fifty years and its original creator has long since passed. In older times the idea of Star Trek would belong to the public as a cultural treasure in much the same was as Sherlock Holmes, Robin Hood, and King Arthur stories do. However today thanks to the power of big studios we have eternal monopolies over ownership of our culture. With people who had little to no involvement in its creation claiming to be its sole owners.
As for the subject of transhumanism and the rights of artificial lifeforms... Star Trek has always had a mixed response to these.
The Federation's views about artificial lifeforms rights has always been little more than lip service, that frequently gets trampled the moment it becomes convenient. We see on a number of occasions with Data, where Starfleet and Federation personnel treat him like an appliance to be humored rather than a person to be respected. The Doctor tends to get it even worse as he was specifically created to be exactly that. Sadly the writers never had the gumption to actually take this concept all the way. AIs are usually treated as one off oddities to be viewed with amusement rather than potential civilizations to be explored.
As for Star Trek's handling of transhumanism, changing times and changing attitudes. My personal views on the matter could best be summed up by... https://youtu.be/1VR3Av9qfZc
Enterprise, JJ Trek and Discovery were/are dealing with time periods never shown before. They still moved the franchise forward by building upon "historical" canon. Franchises have to be updated and modernized to keep them relevant to changing audiences.
The decision to focus on prequels rather than make sequels comes with tradeoffs. One of those tradeoffs is that you inevitably butt heads with what was already established, both in terms of lore as well as tone. Modernizing the franchise wouldn't be such a bitter pill if it was being done in the form of sequels that advance the story forward rather than dwelling on the past.
One of the things that I've seen cited about Roddenberry's vision was that he wanted to show that humanities golden age isn't in the past, but rather our best days are yet to come. The focus on prequels over sequels runs counter to this, as it focuses on past works rather than forging forward. It is fundamentally the choice between optimism and pessimism, do you have confidence that tomorrow will be better than yesterday.
The nitty gritty of "when" TNG became popular isn't as relevant as the fact that it was the most successful iteration of Star Trek. It ran for seven seasons and had four movies, its success also allowed for the creation of two additional spinoffs.
The point here isn't whether TNG was more popular than TOS, the point is that many TOS fans STILL hate it for "ruining Star Trek".
Which is the same thing we see with people bashing Discovery for minor things. Some of what we see here are actually complaints based on the idea that certain things first seen in TNG were new from an in-universe standpoint. I've yet to see one of these complaints stand up to scrutiny.
Comments
Same guy also developed a story treatment for an alternate Star Trek Into Darkness where it's acknowledged that somebody had to have created Khan Singh and the rest of them. IOW they were villains and mass murderers because they were made to be.
I do like this theory, especially since the showrunners have cited DS9 as a major influence. I think it also reflects changing audiences (and showrunners): people these days are (by and large) a lot more comfortable with computing technology and genetic science than they were in the 1960s.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
My character Tsin'xing
Star Wars applies far more to that Fan commentary due to wiping out decades of stories. At this moment, I prefer the Expanded Universe over The Force Awakened and The Last Jedi even with all its flaws.
My character Tsin'xing
People love forgetting that as to the history 10 years before TOS is set, there is so little you couldn't even write a novella about it. So far we've had a contained story set in a small area of space using technology that is obviously 'top secret' and technically an abject failure, that as history often shows, knowledge of would be 'sealed away' and forgotten about. So far I see no rewriting of canon, other than visuals. Who's to say the Klingons we've seen aren't an ultra-xenophobic group that still used the armour of centuries old Klingons (The ship of the Dead folks!).
Anyway, as to the series, my 2 cents. Lorca obviously has sent the Discovery to another galaxy, and the Spore Drive is virtually kaput. He obviously knew if he returned to Earth, he'd lose his command. Thereby, there'll be no interference with canon.
It is the technology that they retconned not just the visuals. Cybernetic implants, Starfleet 'androids', and the Holodeck are all examples of technology that were not present in TOS, but in Discovery. We have no clue if Miranda Jones' Sensor Dress requires cybernetic implants since it was a dress worn over her clothing that allowed her to 'see' better and no visible cybernetic implants unlike Geordi's VISOR. It could be using an implant in her brain to process the information or a more advanced version of non-invasive neural interface similar to the headsets used in VRMMORPG animes like Sword Art Online is used.
Perhaps the reason why Geordi La Forge has a cybernetic implant and Miranda Jones doesn't is due to the amount of information they receive. Wireless transmission of data is just slower and less reliable than a direct connection. Being able to see the full EM spectrum is a great asset to an Engineer, but not as important to a psychologist.
My character Tsin'xing
The technology in SAO used microwaves to manipulate the brain so the user can interact with the virtual world. There is no evidence how Miranda Jones' Sensor Dress sent the information to her senses. Therefore, cybernetic implants and non-invasive neural interfaces are both valid options.
The Holodeck was 23rd Century tech that was available in 2270 not 2256. Considering that we have not seen a functioning standard Starfleet ship interior, then there is no way to know if Holodecks are standard equipment or being tested by the Discovery crew.
There is no evidence what Airiam is which is why I put android in quotes. Whatever technology used to create or modify Airiam is still something not shown as part of 23rd Century Federation technology. Saying the android girl from Discovery is far clearer than saying the cyborg girl from Discovery since Lieutenant Keyla Detmer is also a cyborg with her cranial implant.
BBS might have been around in the late 80s for TOS fans to talk about the new Star Trek show. Of course, the long distance charges would be an enormous pain.
Nor do we really know what limitations the technology had and how those limitations changed over the decades the technology existed.
Not part of 3 seasons of TOS. We mostly saw a single ship and a few colonies and outposts. Of course we didn't see everything that the Federation had to offer.
And like I said before, TOS era Feds seemed to view cybernetics as a liability. Or perhaps it'd be better to say they saw it as "primitive".
My character Tsin'xing
The problem with Enterprise, the 2009 KT-movies, and now Discovery is that instead of moving forward and forging their own path they are looking to the past. The studios have staked the success of the projects on their ability to milk nostalgia while at the same time trampling over it as they try to modernize the franchise.
It is like a group writing project where each writer tells a portion of a story and then passes the baton to the next writer to continue. You've had several writers take their turns developing and moving the story forward and then you get to a new writer who declares he doesn't like the direction the story took so he is going to go back a few turns and rewrite things to take the story into a direction he does like. The problem with this is that it is totally disrespectful to the previous writers and the audience.
The core of this problem seems to be rooted into the basic concepts of who actually owns our cultural icons, a flaw with modern copyright monopolies. Star Trek has been around for over fifty years and its original creator has long since passed. In older times the idea of Star Trek would belong to the public as a cultural treasure in much the same was as Sherlock Holmes, Robin Hood, and King Arthur stories do. However today thanks to the power of big studios we have eternal monopolies over ownership of our culture. With people who had little to no involvement in its creation claiming to be its sole owners.
As for the subject of transhumanism and the rights of artificial lifeforms... Star Trek has always had a mixed response to these.
The Federation's views about artificial lifeforms rights has always been little more than lip service, that frequently gets trampled the moment it becomes convenient. We see on a number of occasions with Data, where Starfleet and Federation personnel treat him like an appliance to be humored rather than a person to be respected. The Doctor tends to get it even worse as he was specifically created to be exactly that. Sadly the writers never had the gumption to actually take this concept all the way. AIs are usually treated as one off oddities to be viewed with amusement rather than potential civilizations to be explored.
As for Star Trek's handling of transhumanism, changing times and changing attitudes. My personal views on the matter could best be summed up by...
The decision to focus on prequels rather than make sequels comes with tradeoffs. One of those tradeoffs is that you inevitably butt heads with what was already established, both in terms of lore as well as tone. Modernizing the franchise wouldn't be such a bitter pill if it was being done in the form of sequels that advance the story forward rather than dwelling on the past.
One of the things that I've seen cited about Roddenberry's vision was that he wanted to show that humanities golden age isn't in the past, but rather our best days are yet to come. The focus on prequels over sequels runs counter to this, as it focuses on past works rather than forging forward. It is fundamentally the choice between optimism and pessimism, do you have confidence that tomorrow will be better than yesterday.
Which is the same thing we see with people bashing Discovery for minor things. Some of what we see here are actually complaints based on the idea that certain things first seen in TNG were new from an in-universe standpoint. I've yet to see one of these complaints stand up to scrutiny.
My character Tsin'xing