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no fans of jjverse

toraknutoraknu Member Posts: 78 Arc User
edited September 2017 in Ten Forward

hehe somebody is also angry with the alternate jj verse




ps ha a second one !





Post edited by toraknu on
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  • hawku001xhawku001x Member Posts: 10,640 Arc User
    "Prepare to be blown away by what was essentially JJ Abrams' Star Wars demo reel."
  • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,808 Arc User
    Star Trek Beyond was best one, the rest well a bit meh!
    NMXb2ph.png
      "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
      -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
    • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
      There's still no such thing as a 'JJverse'.​​
      22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
      Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
      JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

      #TASforSTO


      '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
      'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
      'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
      '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
      'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
      '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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    • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,800 Community Moderator
      Star Trek Beyond was best one, the rest well a bit meh!

      Considering Abrams wasn't directing Beyond...
      66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
      I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
      The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
      The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,847 Arc User
      and hopefully he won't direct the fourth one either...unfortunately, i think it's already been said he's coming back to direct that one​​
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    • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,533 Arc User
      edited September 2017
      Star Trek 2009 and Into Darkness have quite a few plotholes that ruin the movies. Star Trek has an established rule of changing the past changes the present so the crew has to stop the past from being changed to save their present. Old Spock should have been depressed to realize that everyone he knew in the 24th Century never existed. If the time travel rules in Star Trek 2009 is correct, then there was no need for Kirk and Spock to stop Bones in the 1930s and no need for Picard and his crew to travel to the 21st Century to stop the Borg invasion.

      The following video shows the main plotholes in Into Darkness at 1:39.

    • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,332 Arc User
      Bwahahahahaha!


      They got it soooooooo right. :D
      dvZq2Aj.jpg
    • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,332 Arc User
      rattler2 wrote: »
      Star Trek Beyond was best one, the rest well a bit meh!

      Considering Abrams wasn't directing Beyond...

      And it's ironic they finally got the ship to look decent in the beginning of the film, just to scrag it. o.o
      dvZq2Aj.jpg
    • theraven2378theraven2378 Member Posts: 5,808 Arc User
      rattler2 wrote: »
      Star Trek Beyond was best one, the rest well a bit meh!

      Considering Abrams wasn't directing Beyond...

      And it's ironic they finally got the ship to look decent in the beginning of the film, just to scrag it. o.o

      I was laughing when the Enterprise was being scrapped by that swarm. I hate the JJPrise design
      NMXb2ph.png
        "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
        -Lord Commander Solar Macharius
      • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,800 Community Moderator
        starkaos wrote: »
        Star Trek has an established rule of changing the past changes the present so the crew has to stop the past from being changed to save their present. Old Spock should have been depressed to realize that everyone he knew in the 24th Century never existed. If the time travel rules in Star Trek 2009 is correct, then there was no need for Kirk and Spock to stop Bones in the 1930s and no need for Picard and his crew to travel to the 21st Century to stop the Borg invasion.

        Well... they did throw us a bone with the Alternate Reality being created. How do we know that the rule was violated? What if each instance also created alternate realities? We're talking lots of branches.

        There's also the part where Kirk and Spock did travel back on purpose. Same with Picard and the Ent-E. The instance of Nero and Spock traveling back was accidental.

        Honestly the way the "Time Travel Rules" are set up only take into consideration one single timeline. No branches. Anything you do in the past affects the future. But then we have things like the Mirror Universe, that have the same technology but different events. It would make sense that at some point in the past it could have branched off from the Prime Timeline, which explains the similarities. Same can be said of all the various realities Worf experienced in that one episode of TNG.

        So the way I see it... no rule has been truly violated. We have branching timelines from a common source. The fact Old Spock was still Old Spock as we knew him says that the Prime Timeline still exists. If it didn't, Old Spock would have synced up with the new timeline and remembered everything that Kelvin Spock experienced. Same with the picture Old Spock had of the Prime crew he served with. It would have been altered to show the Kelvin crew instead if he had synced up.
        66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
        I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
        The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
        The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
      • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,533 Arc User
        rattler2 wrote: »
        starkaos wrote: »
        Star Trek has an established rule of changing the past changes the present so the crew has to stop the past from being changed to save their present. Old Spock should have been depressed to realize that everyone he knew in the 24th Century never existed. If the time travel rules in Star Trek 2009 is correct, then there was no need for Kirk and Spock to stop Bones in the 1930s and no need for Picard and his crew to travel to the 21st Century to stop the Borg invasion.

        Well... they did throw us a bone with the Alternate Reality being created. How do we know that the rule was violated? What if each instance also created alternate realities? We're talking lots of branches.

        There's also the part where Kirk and Spock did travel back on purpose. Same with Picard and the Ent-E. The instance of Nero and Spock traveling back was accidental.

        Honestly the way the "Time Travel Rules" are set up only take into consideration one single timeline. No branches. Anything you do in the past affects the future. But then we have things like the Mirror Universe, that have the same technology but different events. It would make sense that at some point in the past it could have branched off from the Prime Timeline, which explains the similarities. Same can be said of all the various realities Worf experienced in that one episode of TNG.

        So the way I see it... no rule has been truly violated. We have branching timelines from a common source. The fact Old Spock was still Old Spock as we knew him says that the Prime Timeline still exists. If it didn't, Old Spock would have synced up with the new timeline and remembered everything that Kelvin Spock experienced. Same with the picture Old Spock had of the Prime crew he served with. It would have been altered to show the Kelvin crew instead if he had synced up.

        I despise branching timelines due to it violating the conservation of energy. So the universe has to contain a ton of reserve energy to create every new branching timeline. Besides it ruins every time travel episode and dilemma by removing the drama.

        Picard didn't save the Earth from the Borg assimilating the Earth since his Earth never had the Borg invade Earth in the 21st Century, another Earth was assimilated, and all his work just resulted in him being in a new Earth where the Borg invaded Earth, but was defeated instead of in the assimilated Earth universe. Just seems like a ton of pointless work that doesn't accomplish anything.

        Children of Time is no longer depressing since it is no longer a dilemma between saving the Defiant crew from being confined to a planet, but killing off thousands of their descendants or saving their descendants, but being forever trapped in the past.

        Travelling to a parallel universe that looks like the past is the only reasonable way to explain Star Trek 2009 since there is no restrictions to what the IP owner can do with it. The Prime Universe was not influenced in any way by Star Trek 2009. Any differences that happened before Nero destroyed the USS Kelvin like Caitians that look like humans with cat ears and cat tails can easily be explained due to it being a parallel universe. Branching timelines can explain some of these differences due to erasing all instances of time travel that occurred in the Prime Universe and create new ones. The Kelvin Universe Picard most likely didn't go back to the 21st Century and stop the Borg invasion due to either he didn't exist or the 24th Century Kelvin Universe Federation would have more firepower than the 24th Century Prime Universe Federation. However evolutionary differences can't be explained by the temporal differences created from a branching timeline.
      • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
        It is a timeline not a universe, it branches from the destruction of the Kelvin it does not predate this event. This is no different to AGT, Endgame, Parallels or countless out alternate timeline in the franchise. Caitians appear only in TAS and TVH, they do not appear in ID and do not look like humans in the slightest. The conservation of energy is an irreverent concept in Star Trek (the franchise that gave us the pathetic Genesis Device).

        Any and all complaints about the setting of the KT films is unfounded and the setting is identical to other timelines such as the aforementioned that nobody b|tched half as much about even though they outnumber the KT films in runtime by a large margin. The Mirror Universe is the only example of an alternate universe (no point of divergence) in the franchise.​​
        22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
        Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
        JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

        #TASforSTO


        '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
        'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
        'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
        '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
        'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
        '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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      • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,817 Arc User
        rattler2 wrote: »
        starkaos wrote: »
        Star Trek has an established rule of changing the past changes the present so the crew has to stop the past from being changed to save their present. Old Spock should have been depressed to realize that everyone he knew in the 24th Century never existed. If the time travel rules in Star Trek 2009 is correct, then there was no need for Kirk and Spock to stop Bones in the 1930s and no need for Picard and his crew to travel to the 21st Century to stop the Borg invasion.

        Well... they did throw us a bone with the Alternate Reality being created. How do we know that the rule was violated? What if each instance also created alternate realities? We're talking lots of branches.

        There's also the part where Kirk and Spock did travel back on purpose. Same with Picard and the Ent-E. The instance of Nero and Spock traveling back was accidental.

        Honestly the way the "Time Travel Rules" are set up only take into consideration one single timeline. No branches. Anything you do in the past affects the future. But then we have things like the Mirror Universe, that have the same technology but different events. It would make sense that at some point in the past it could have branched off from the Prime Timeline, which explains the similarities. Same can be said of all the various realities Worf experienced in that one episode of TNG.

        So the way I see it... no rule has been truly violated. We have branching timelines from a common source. The fact Old Spock was still Old Spock as we knew him says that the Prime Timeline still exists. If it didn't, Old Spock would have synced up with the new timeline and remembered everything that Kelvin Spock experienced. Same with the picture Old Spock had of the Prime crew he served with. It would have been altered to show the Kelvin crew instead if he had synced up.

        Those are natural divergent points like a tree branch leading to other branches. the MU is just another universe, but the JJverse may not of been a natural thing because of the Nero and his freighter which forced change. It's like a branch of a tree that isn't connected to the tree itself until a specific set of circumstances allow this timeline to merge with the tree of time and become another part of the the ever expanding potential universes, but instead of it being natural it's like grafting a pine branch onto an oak tree instead but the graft holds but even so it isn't natural even if it exists and that is what the red matter did with Romulan systems star.

        There is no way to know for sure if the JJverse timeline is however another timeline that happened.
        T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
        Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
      • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,533 Arc User
        artan42 wrote: »
        It is a timeline not a universe, it branches from the destruction of the Kelvin it does not predate this event. This is no different to AGT, Endgame, Parallels or countless out alternate timeline in the franchise. Caitians appear only in TAS and TVH, they do not appear in ID and do not look like humans in the slightest. The conservation of energy is an irreverent concept in Star Trek (the franchise that gave us the pathetic Genesis Device).

        Any and all complaints about the setting of the KT films is unfounded and the setting is identical to other timelines such as the aforementioned that nobody b|tched half as much about even though they outnumber the KT films in runtime by a large margin. The Mirror Universe is the only example of an alternate universe (no point of divergence) in the franchise.​​

        The entire episode of Parallels is about parallel or alternate universes (no point of divergence). There is a huge difference between the Big Bang creating an infinite amount of parallel universes where some of them are extremely similar and creating a new branching timeline due to a time traveler's actions. With Star Trek 2009, all we know is that Spock and Nero traveled through a black hole and ended up in a place that looked like the 23rd Century. There is absolutely no proof whether Spock and Nero traveled back in time to the 23rd Century and creating a branching timeline or they traveled to a parallel universe that looks like the 23rd Century. The parallel universe theory doesn't have the problems that the branching timeline theory has since it doesn't violate the established time travel rule of changing the past changes the present.

        As for Caitians in Into Darkness goes, tell that to Damon Lindelof who is a writer and producer of Into Darkness. Since you believe that only if something is shown in the TV series or movies is canon, then how can you be certain that there are Caitians in TVH? Just because M'Ress is a Caitian doesn't mean that all cat people in the Federation are Caitians.
      • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,847 Arc User
        yeah, you notice it didn't stop him from overusing them in TFA?​​
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        #LegalizeAwoo

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        A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


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        I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
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      • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,533 Arc User
        yeah, you notice it didn't stop him from overusing them in TFA?​​

        Well, he is a recovering addict and addicts relapse all the time before they finally break free of their chains. So VIII will have some lens flare and maybe IX will have one or two lens flares.
      • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
        starkaos wrote: »
        The entire episode of Parallels is about parallel or alternate universes (no point of divergence). There is a huge difference between the Big Bang creating an infinite amount of parallel universes where some of them are extremely similar and creating a new branching timeline due to a time traveler's actions.

        That would indeed be true if it wasn't false. For example Beard!Riker talks about being from a timeline where the Borg won Wolf 359 and so on. The context is there that ships such as the one with a Cardasian on-board come from the Federation choosing to rehabilitate the Cardassians after the Occupation of Bajor instead of freezing them out. So not only does the context show this directly but to suggest an entire series of hundreds of near identical universes sprung from an event billions of years ago and kept themselves identical for said billions of years in such a ways as to produce even just several hundred Galaxy Class starships is ludicrous. It is one of the elements the Mirror Universe is criticised for and even then there's only the one example of that universe,, not hundreds of them.

        And we also still have Yesteryear, AGT, Endgame, and Yesterdays Enterprise off the top of my head.
        starkaos wrote: »
        With Star Trek 2009, all we know is that Spock and Nero traveled through a black hole and ended up in a place that looked like the 23rd Century. There is absolutely no proof whether Spock and Nero traveled back in time to the 23rd Century and creating a branching timeline or they traveled to a parallel universe that looks like the 23rd Century.

        We know for two reasons. If you're the sort of person who takes the non-canon word of BtS people we have the Okudas who named it, Pegg who wrote the third film and several of the actors including Eve who all refer to it in terms of a split from a point of divergence (The destruction of the USS Kelvin). The second reason is Spock, if this is not Spocks past he would know, he would reasonably be expected to say that he is from a different universe not a different time, he wouldn't be able to warn Spock of Khan as by the point of New Vulcan he would be able to tell there are no common pasts between your hypothetical universes.
        starkaos wrote: »
        The parallel universe theory doesn't have the problems that the branching timeline theory has since it doesn't violate the established time travel rule of changing the past changes the present.

        Except that is rarely a rule, existing really only in episodes like TVH.
        starkaos wrote: »
        As for Caitians in Into Darkness goes, tell that to Damon Lindelof who is a writer and producer of Into Darkness. Since you believe that only if something is shown in the TV series or movies is canon, then how can you be certain that there are Caitians in TVH? Just because M'Ress is a Caitian doesn't mean that all cat people in the Federation are Caitians.

        Simple.
        • Lets not call any of them Caitians, instead lets call them M'Ress' race.
        • So we look at the race, she's clearly a vaguely humanoid cat.
        • Present in TVH are two examples of humanoid cats.
        • I don't know if they are the same race but at that point there are no similar races in the franchise other than Vulcans and Romulans so chances are they're either the same or related races (well excluding all the Human like ones, but aliens are usually distinct).
        • Now the alien twins in ID are not cats, humanoid or otherwise. As can be clearly seen from BtS photos (with better lighting), makeup test cards and the film itself they posses no cat like features, they are identical to humans with monkey like tails and Cardassian ears.
        • Not cats, ergo not the same race as M'Ress' race.
        • Now take all that and replace 'M'Ress' race' with Caitian for simplicity as its a shorter word.

        Then realise that it is indeed true that only what is onscreen counts. Abrams has said things about the setting of 09 that he did not then go on to write into the story, same with Pegg, however both of them said different things to each other and wrote something similar. So do we take the similar canon or the divergent BtS comments? The first obviously, because it's canon.

        Roddenberry wrote M'Ress' race into TAS and showed them, an unknown person did the same into TVH, Lindelof did not write Caitians into ID (they are not in the script) nor did he have them inserted anywhere (there are no cat like aliens anywhere in ID) thus he's overruled by canon, M'Ress' race do not appear in ID.​​
        22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
        Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
        JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

        #TASforSTO


        '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
        'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
        'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
        '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
        'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
        '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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      • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,533 Arc User
        If there is an infinite number of universes created as a result of the Big Bang, then there will be a ton of Star Trek universes, a ton of Star Wars universes, a ton of Firefly universes, a ton of Starcraft universes, a ton of Warhammer 40k universes, and whatever group of fictional universes that you want. You can't have Star Trek universes if they aren't extremely similar. So Beard!Riker came from an almost identical parallel universe where one of its differences is that the Borg won. So there is no point of divergence just a bunch of extremely low probabilities that came together to create a ton of parallel universes that are almost identical. Branching timelines is not the only way to get a bunch of universes that look extremely similar and have extremely similar histories since we are dealing with an infinite number of universes.

        How would Spock know that he traveled back in time and not to a parallel universe that looked like the 23rd Century? It would require examining the history of the Kelvin Universe to look for any discrepancies or taking a bunch of temporal and dimensional readings. There is the quantum signature explanation used in Parallels, but it is not known if newly created branching timelines have their own distinct quantum signature. Also, Spock didn't have the time and wasn't in the best shape to do research to determine if he was in a branching timeline or a parallel universe. So if you believe in only what is shown in the TV series and movies is canon, then all we know is that Spock and Nero traveled through a black hole to a universe that looks similar to their 23rd Century and nothing more. Branching timelines and parallel universes are just speculation.

        If you traveled to a parallel universe that looked like 1995 and the only difference was that Sylvester Stallone starred in the Terminator movies instead of Arnold Schwarzenegger, then how would you know that you traveled to a parallel universe? Unless you discover that one difference, then every single piece of evidence shows that you traveled back in time to 1995 instead of traveling to a parallel universe that looks like 1995.
      • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,817 Arc User
        starkaos wrote: »
        If you traveled to a parallel universe that looked like 1995 and the only difference was that Sylvester Stallone starred in the Terminator movies instead of Arnold Schwarzenegger, then how would you know that you traveled to a parallel universe? Unless you discover that one difference, then every single piece of evidence shows that you traveled back in time to 1995 instead of traveling to a parallel universe that looks like 1995.

        Wouldn't matter which one went terminator, if the termintor did nothing in the past the past wouldn't change. If and when the Terminator does something that would effect the past is when the future will change and cause a new divergent timeline. That wouldn't be a natural event like Cochrane attacking a Vulcan on Earth with a shotgun and charging the spaceship despite what the crew of the Ent-E tried to correct but this was his plan all along, it would be a different future and one that was meant to happen just as much as it is when Cochrane attempted to respect the Vulcans and ended up with a handshake instead.
        T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
        Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
      • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
        edited September 2017
        starkaos wrote: »
        If there is an infinite number of universes created as a result of the Big Bang, then there will be a ton of Star Trek universes, a ton of Star Wars universes, a ton of Firefly universes, a ton of Starcraft universes, a ton of Warhammer 40k universes, and whatever group of fictional universes that you want. You can't have Star Trek universes if they aren't extremely similar.

        This is irreverent as that's not how it's been shown to happen in the franchise.
        starkaos wrote: »
        So Beard!Riker came from an almost identical parallel universe where one of its differences is that the Borg won. So there is no point of divergence just a bunch of extremely low probabilities that came together to create a ton of parallel universes that are almost identical. Branching timelines is not the only way to get a bunch of universes that look extremely similar and have extremely similar histories since we are dealing with an infinite number of universes.

        Not how it's been shown to work in the franchise though.
        starkaos wrote: »
        How would Spock know that he traveled back in time and not to a parallel universe that looked like the 23rd Century? It would require examining the history of the Kelvin Universe to look for any discrepancies or taking a bunch of temporal and dimensional readings.

        You only claim the existence of a parallel universe to explain away things you consider as large scale changes (including your misidentified alien twins) if that was the case it would be immediately obvious to Spock that he was not in Kansas anymore. By the time of ID he will have taken the time to have thoroughly investigated his situation, remeber he's a scientist and he's just lost his homeworld.
        starkaos wrote: »
        There is the quantum signature explanation used in Parallels, but it is not known if newly created branching timelines have their own distinct quantum signature. Also, Spock didn't have the time and wasn't in the best shape to do research to determine if he was in a branching timeline or a parallel universe. So if you believe in only what is shown in the TV series and movies is canon, then all we know is that Spock and Nero traveled through a black hole to a universe that looks similar to their 23rd Century and nothing more. Branching timelines and parallel universes are just speculation.

        On the surface you appear to be correct, as of 09, however by the time of ID Spock will have taken the time to investigate where he is and considering he was still willing to warn Spock about Khan and not add that this is an alternate version of him and that he dosn't know anything about this version of Khan shows that it's indeed the past and not another universe.
        starkaos wrote: »
        If you traveled to a parallel universe that looked like 1995 and the only difference was that Sylvester Stallone starred in the Terminator movies instead of Arnold Schwarzenegger, then how would you know that you traveled to a parallel universe? Unless you discover that one difference, then every single piece of evidence shows that you traveled back in time to 1995 instead of traveling to a parallel universe that looks like 1995.

        I would realise I've travelled to a different universe because time travel is impossible. I was never in 1995 as I am now therefore I could never be in 1995 as I am now else I would have been in the first place. I would understand I was in an alternate reality that had the change of actor (an incalculably immense change, not a small one BTW) as well as time running about 22 years slower. This is because I have a reasonable understanding of physics here and also understand that the ST franchise does not run on the laws of physics.​​
        22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
        Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
        JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

        #TASforSTO


        '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
        'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
        'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
        '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
        'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
        '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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      • toraknutoraknu Member Posts: 78 Arc User
        aeeeh what ?
      • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,332 Arc User
        starkaos wrote: »
        rattler2 wrote: »
        starkaos wrote: »
        Star Trek has an established rule of changing the past changes the present so the crew has to stop the past from being changed to save their present. Old Spock should have been depressed to realize that everyone he knew in the 24th Century never existed. If the time travel rules in Star Trek 2009 is correct, then there was no need for Kirk and Spock to stop Bones in the 1930s and no need for Picard and his crew to travel to the 21st Century to stop the Borg invasion.

        Well... they did throw us a bone with the Alternate Reality being created. How do we know that the rule was violated? What if each instance also created alternate realities? We're talking lots of branches.

        There's also the part where Kirk and Spock did travel back on purpose. Same with Picard and the Ent-E. The instance of Nero and Spock traveling back was accidental.

        Honestly the way the "Time Travel Rules" are set up only take into consideration one single timeline. No branches. Anything you do in the past affects the future. But then we have things like the Mirror Universe, that have the same technology but different events. It would make sense that at some point in the past it could have branched off from the Prime Timeline, which explains the similarities. Same can be said of all the various realities Worf experienced in that one episode of TNG.

        So the way I see it... no rule has been truly violated. We have branching timelines from a common source. The fact Old Spock was still Old Spock as we knew him says that the Prime Timeline still exists. If it didn't, Old Spock would have synced up with the new timeline and remembered everything that Kelvin Spock experienced. Same with the picture Old Spock had of the Prime crew he served with. It would have been altered to show the Kelvin crew instead if he had synced up.

        I despise branching timelines due to it violating the conservation of energy. So the universe has to contain a ton of reserve energy to create every new branching timeline. Besides it ruins every time travel episode and dilemma by removing the drama.

        Picard didn't save the Earth from the Borg assimilating the Earth since his Earth never had the Borg invade Earth in the 21st Century, another Earth was assimilated, and all his work just resulted in him being in a new Earth where the Borg invaded Earth, but was defeated instead of in the assimilated Earth universe. Just seems like a ton of pointless work that doesn't accomplish anything.

        Children of Time is no longer depressing since it is no longer a dilemma between saving the Defiant crew from being confined to a planet, but killing off thousands of their descendants or saving their descendants, but being forever trapped in the past.

        Travelling to a parallel universe that looks like the past is the only reasonable way to explain Star Trek 2009 since there is no restrictions to what the IP owner can do with it. The Prime Universe was not influenced in any way by Star Trek 2009. Any differences that happened before Nero destroyed the USS Kelvin like Caitians that look like humans with cat ears and cat tails can easily be explained due to it being a parallel universe. Branching timelines can explain some of these differences due to erasing all instances of time travel that occurred in the Prime Universe and create new ones. The Kelvin Universe Picard most likely didn't go back to the 21st Century and stop the Borg invasion due to either he didn't exist or the 24th Century Kelvin Universe Federation would have more firepower than the 24th Century Prime Universe Federation. However evolutionary differences can't be explained by the temporal differences created from a branching timeline.

        They'd probably make Kelvin Picard into a Vin Diesel action hero in a star destroyer sized ship, chugging beer or red bull instead of tea ~shudders at that image~ Though JJ probably would go "BRILLIANT!!!!"
        dvZq2Aj.jpg
      • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,533 Arc User
        starkaos wrote: »
        rattler2 wrote: »
        starkaos wrote: »
        Star Trek has an established rule of changing the past changes the present so the crew has to stop the past from being changed to save their present. Old Spock should have been depressed to realize that everyone he knew in the 24th Century never existed. If the time travel rules in Star Trek 2009 is correct, then there was no need for Kirk and Spock to stop Bones in the 1930s and no need for Picard and his crew to travel to the 21st Century to stop the Borg invasion.

        Well... they did throw us a bone with the Alternate Reality being created. How do we know that the rule was violated? What if each instance also created alternate realities? We're talking lots of branches.

        There's also the part where Kirk and Spock did travel back on purpose. Same with Picard and the Ent-E. The instance of Nero and Spock traveling back was accidental.

        Honestly the way the "Time Travel Rules" are set up only take into consideration one single timeline. No branches. Anything you do in the past affects the future. But then we have things like the Mirror Universe, that have the same technology but different events. It would make sense that at some point in the past it could have branched off from the Prime Timeline, which explains the similarities. Same can be said of all the various realities Worf experienced in that one episode of TNG.

        So the way I see it... no rule has been truly violated. We have branching timelines from a common source. The fact Old Spock was still Old Spock as we knew him says that the Prime Timeline still exists. If it didn't, Old Spock would have synced up with the new timeline and remembered everything that Kelvin Spock experienced. Same with the picture Old Spock had of the Prime crew he served with. It would have been altered to show the Kelvin crew instead if he had synced up.

        I despise branching timelines due to it violating the conservation of energy. So the universe has to contain a ton of reserve energy to create every new branching timeline. Besides it ruins every time travel episode and dilemma by removing the drama.

        Picard didn't save the Earth from the Borg assimilating the Earth since his Earth never had the Borg invade Earth in the 21st Century, another Earth was assimilated, and all his work just resulted in him being in a new Earth where the Borg invaded Earth, but was defeated instead of in the assimilated Earth universe. Just seems like a ton of pointless work that doesn't accomplish anything.

        Children of Time is no longer depressing since it is no longer a dilemma between saving the Defiant crew from being confined to a planet, but killing off thousands of their descendants or saving their descendants, but being forever trapped in the past.

        Travelling to a parallel universe that looks like the past is the only reasonable way to explain Star Trek 2009 since there is no restrictions to what the IP owner can do with it. The Prime Universe was not influenced in any way by Star Trek 2009. Any differences that happened before Nero destroyed the USS Kelvin like Caitians that look like humans with cat ears and cat tails can easily be explained due to it being a parallel universe. Branching timelines can explain some of these differences due to erasing all instances of time travel that occurred in the Prime Universe and create new ones. The Kelvin Universe Picard most likely didn't go back to the 21st Century and stop the Borg invasion due to either he didn't exist or the 24th Century Kelvin Universe Federation would have more firepower than the 24th Century Prime Universe Federation. However evolutionary differences can't be explained by the temporal differences created from a branching timeline.

        They'd probably make Kelvin Picard into a Vin Diesel action hero in a star destroyer sized ship, chugging beer or red bull instead of tea ~shudders at that image~ Though JJ probably would go "BRILLIANT!!!!"

        You are probably right. It would be interesting to see how each of the main Star Trek characters would be in the Kelvin Universe. Kelvin Janeway would expand the Void so it goes from the Delta Quadrant to the Alpha Quadrant.

        Speaking of Picard chugging Beer:



        Although I find the "A PR Nightmare" from Robot Chicken featuring Patrick Stewart to be better. Speaking of Patrick Stewart in roles that are the complete opposite of Picard, someone should do a video where Director Bullock's lines from American Dad are used instead of Picard's lines for an episode of TNG.
      • lordrezeonlordrezeon Member Posts: 399 Arc User
        starkaos wrote: »
        You are probably right. It would be interesting to see how each of the main Star Trek characters would be in the Kelvin Universe. Kelvin Janeway would expand the Void so it goes from the Delta Quadrant to the Alpha Quadrant.

        Speaking of Picard chugging Beer:



        Although I find the "A PR Nightmare" from Robot Chicken featuring Patrick Stewart to be better. Speaking of Patrick Stewart in roles that are the complete opposite of Picard, someone should do a video where Director Bullock's lines from American Dad are used instead of Picard's lines for an episode of TNG.

        Well it isn't American Dad, but Family Guy also got in on the act...


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