'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
that is very true. The Tzenkethi have destroyed thousands or millions of the crystals, yet the Tholians apparently don't care. But we know the crystals are a source of great energy because one of the races the Tzenkethi wiped out used them to power their planetary infrastructure
and the kentari were also on the verge of using them as a source of power (supposedly - that haardenite stuff mentioned in one of the news posts was heavily implied to be the crystals)
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I think it's pretty safe to say that the crystal aren't related to any species we have encountered in-game at this point, or else we would have seen them floating around by now.
I still hold some small hope they are related to the Kelvans. One of the Kelvans mentioned that flowers remind her of a rapidly forming crystal substance back on the planet Kelva called Sahsheer.
It's possible that these crystals are part of some very old Kelvan terraforming operation, launched to nearby galaxies hundreds of years ago, and that they had planned for these crystals to take over entire worlds before their first manned expeditions got there, so that they would have some place to settle when they arrived and began scouting out the galaxy in more detail for conquest.
if these crystals are a terraforming device, wouldn't these crystals had already started terraforming a planets atmosphere as soon as it got into the upper atmosphere?
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
if these crystals are a terraforming device, wouldn't these crystals had already started terraforming a planets atmosphere as soon as it got into the upper atmosphere?
Depends on how different the Kelvin physiology is compared to normal humanoids, and what exactly the Crystals need to produce for the Kelvans to survive. It could be they need something that doesn't effect humanoids.
Or it could be the crystals need to reach a critical mass level before they explode and do whatever they need to do, but the various races mining the crystals for power has prevented that in most places.
I like this theory - how would it play into the upcoming Gamma Quadrant emphasis though?
The Kelvans begin their invasion, arrive in the Gamma Quadrant first, start beating the Dominion, The Dominion comes to us for help, the Galactic Union is formed as the galaxy comes together to fight the first extra-galactic threat.
Easy to beat the Kelvans - we already know their biggest weakness; copious amounts of Scotch (whiskey)!
When they assume human form.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Agreed. Speculating here has demonstrated many ways this could go, from my rather outlandish ideas to the more likely scenarios others have suggested. I'll have to go back through this thread and highlight all the 'right answers' once we know. Until then, I am enjoying the anticipation!
A good portion of the Dominion is phased out of the Space Time Continuum by the Nexus. Take it from there.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Even though the idea is completely unlikely to be done, but would match I think to a Gamma quad focused expansion as a pre/early-expansion event, would be something like a event in which you can make a character of a unique race based on the different factions. Which could be something like federation characters might be able to make a Cardassian character, a KDF character might have the option to make a rogue Jem'hadar (thinking that the character would be a alpha, or maybe a new beta quad variant), and the Romulan might get access to making a Vorta character (I think a Vorta could find they would enjoy working with the Romulans out of the three main factions). It is unlikely it would happen honestly with a lot of reasons that are quite well known, but honestly I would find it interesting an with the right story-arc to explain it would work quite well. Also though I think this would actually appeal to many players, and for players to create character on all three factions for the different race options, and if the story arc specific to these three races were quite similar an in the end had the character allying with one fo the three factions could work. Like maybe the beginning of the arc for them started with the character working or being born on a Dominion cloning base that the True way took over, and was attempting to breed Jem'hadar on, and than which is attacked either by the Cardassian union or alliance maybe. Than the character takes the opportunity to rebel an gain their freedom form the True way, and escape the base, which could actually be the end mission after some starting missions that explain things that are going on.
Even though the idea is completely unlikely to be done, but would match I think to a Gamma quad focused expansion as a pre/early-expansion event, would be something like a event in which you can make a character of a unique race based on the different factions. Which could be something like federation characters might be able to make a Cardassian character, a KDF character might have the option to make a rogue Jem'hadar (thinking that the character would be a alpha, or maybe a new beta quad variant), and the Romulan might get access to making a Vorta character (I think a Vorta could find they would enjoy working with the Romulans out of the three main factions). It is unlikely it would happen honestly with a lot of reasons that are quite well known, but honestly I would find it interesting an with the right story-arc to explain it would work quite well. Also though I think this would actually appeal to many players, and for players to create character on all three factions for the different race options, and if the story arc specific to these three races were quite similar an in the end had the character allying with one fo the three factions could work. Like maybe the beginning of the arc for them started with the character working or being born on a Dominion cloning base that the True way took over, and was attempting to breed Jem'hadar on, and than which is attacked either by the Cardassian union or alliance maybe. Than the character takes the opportunity to rebel an gain their freedom form the True way, and escape the base, which could actually be the end mission after some starting missions that explain things that are going on.
I can imagine a Jem'Hadar in the KDF but without a supply of Ketracel white, the Jem'Hadar PC wouldn't last long unless the Dominion has gone to the trouble of removing the need for the White and found a better way of controlling their soldiers. There could be a whole line of defective Jem'Hadar that escaped and joined the KDF to fight honorably. Just remember there is a misison where you destroy a Ketracel facility in Cardassian space, meaning that Ketracel White is even more sparse to get a hold of.
A Vorta is as manipulative as he or she is cunning. A Vorta may fit right in on Rator III with the Imperial forces but not with the Republic. The Republic discarded their treacherous traits that held the old empire back. If there are to be Vorta in the Republic they got to be less treacherous and more honor bound while still being able to keep up with their usual specialised based tasks.
You may also want to note that the Alpha Jem'Hadar is an old cast off from the Dominion war while the Gamma Jem'Hadar has been upgraded recently, they even got long hair and look tougher as well as better shrouding, it possible they may have no need for Ketracel White as it's naturally produced in their bodies.
I could see your story working, but the part about the Dominion cloning facility and the true way, that should be replaced by something like: The Dominion are forced into the Alpha Quadrant and one of their ships with almost fully grown Jem'Hadar is shot at in an accident and it causes a surge in the ship, enough that when the Clones finally do connect up to a brand new cloning facility that they are different, their minds are free from the brainwashing that was programmed into their minds. It turns out the software that monitors these Jem'Hadar overloaded the brain structures enough to remove conditioning but not make them forgot what they are, however the new facility comes under attack from the True way. As a new Soldier, you need to find a set of armour, a weapon and fight your way to victory, but in the process the Dominion facility is blown up and a new one needs to be constructed.
Your PC is then found by alliance ships in the abndoned wreckage of the facility and from there your PC is given a new life.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I can imagine a Jem'Hadar in the KDF but without a supply of Ketracel white, the Jem'Hadar PC wouldn't last long unless the Dominion has gone to the trouble of removing the need for the White and found a better way of controlling their soldiers. There could be a whole line of defective Jem'Hadar that escaped and joined the KDF to fight honorably. Just remember there is a misison where you destroy a Ketracel facility in Cardassian space, meaning that Ketracel White is even more sparse to get a hold of.
You may also want to note that the Alpha Jem'Hadar is an old cast off from the Dominion war while the Gamma Jem'Hadar has been upgraded recently, they even got long hair and look tougher as well as better shrouding, it possible they may have no need for Ketracel White as it's naturally produced in their bodies.
I can somewhat agree, but yet I do not think that the white is that rare, since there were facilities that still could create it. Also the Son'a were creating it for the Dominion as well, so they might sell it, or some groups might attempt to raid their facilities for it. Though as you said some Jem'hadar can overcome the addiction, or are able to create the drug within their bodies actually. So that is just as likely a way of explaining how they can be used, without needing the use of the white as much.
Though I will say the idea of using the alpha jem'hadar is that they are much more apt to take independent action to complete an objective, while gammas are more apt to take no action till ordered, and I could see the Founders not wanting to introduce that into the gamma after how badly the alphas did comparatively (also to keep more control over them). Also I could see the alphas having been adjusted to need less, or be less addicted to the white during the war as the supply was much lower till the Son's began to use their facilities to create it.
A Vorta is as manipulative as he or she is cunning. A Vorta may fit right in on Rator III with the Imperial forces but not with the Republic. The Republic discarded their treacherous traits that held the old empire back. If there are to be Vorta in the Republic they got to be less treacherous and more honor bound while still being able to keep up with their usual specialised based tasks.
I would say they would fit in quite well in both areas, since being cunning an manipulitive is still a very good thing, just a matter of how it is used. An so yeah I would agree the Vorta pc would be quite abit different from other Vorta, but we have seen that Vorta have quite a bit of variety to them.
I could see your story working, but the part about the Dominion cloning facility and the true way, that should be replaced by something like: The Dominion are forced into the Alpha Quadrant and one of their ships with almost fully grown Jem'Hadar is shot at in an accident and it causes a surge in the ship, enough that when the Clones finally do connect up to a brand new cloning facility that they are different, their minds are free from the brainwashing that was programmed into their minds. It turns out the software that monitors these Jem'Hadar overloaded the brain structures enough to remove conditioning but not make them forgot what they are, however the new facility comes under attack from the True way. As a new Soldier, you need to find a set of armour, a weapon and fight your way to victory, but in the process the Dominion facility is blown up and a new one needs to be constructed.
Your PC is then found by alliance ships in the abndoned wreckage of the facility and from there your PC is given a new life.
The idea of the True way finding/using a cloning facility is more to explain how they would take part in the early parts of the missions prior to the expansion. This is less of a full faction, and more of a addition to the existing factions an so you would need to explain how the Jem'hadar/Vorta are around prior to events of the new expansion. I could see both working though.
As for a Cardassian/Dominion faction, I have neither seen nor heard any recent rumors on that. It is very doubtful we would ever get a Dominion faction due to the story being that they stayed out of our way until they came to help us during the Iconian War, making them appear in any content before that(sans the 2800 arc) impossible.
My Biochemist Vorta DOffs make Ketracel White. It's one of the DOff assignments. Also, they outrank my Jem Hadar BOffs. (At least, they did before I promoted my Jem Hadar BOffs.)
While I know it won't be a popular idea, I believe Jem Hadar should not be a playable race, instead being limited to BOff and DOff status. The playable race should be Vorta who command and control the Jem Hadar. Jem Hadar make good soldiers but lousy diplomats, scientists, or engineers. Vorta are specifically designed for those roles, and Jem Hadar are bred to obey them.
Random Mission Example:
"Jem Hadar Captain, the ship is carrying a plague, what should we do?"
"Can we weaponize the plague for use against our enemies?"
"No, Jem Hadar Captain, you tossed our Vorta scientist out of the airlock for trying to give you an order."
"Then destroy the ship so no one else can weaponize the plague and use it against us."
"Aye, First. Target destroyed."
"Good, does Starfleet have our next mission?"
"I don't know, sir."
"Why not?"
"That plague ship was carrying the Admiral who assigns us to missions."
When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Jem Hadar are too specifically designed as soldiers to be anything else. Now, of course, this is a statement of opinion, and your ideas may differ. But the only times we saw Jem Hadar without a Vorta commander in canon was when something went horribly wrong.
As was pointed out to me earlier in this topic, in the DOffing system there are three Gamma Quadrant races associated with the Federation and three associated with the Klingons. Any of these could be playable races aligned with the factions, with Vorta available to both. And Jem Hadar would make excellent Tactical and security BOffs and DOffs, just as they are now.
If a Gamma Quadrant starter quest is created, it would have to rejoin the main story arc after Boldly They Rode. An idea I had for a Gamma Quadrant Cultural Exchange could even use that story as its foundation. Here is an example:
The Gamma Quadrant Starter quest touches on the various Dominion races as your captain levels up, leading to an assignment to participate in the capture of DS9. The minefield is finally breached, and you join the armada sailing to the Alpha Quadrant, only to discover that you've been jumped forward in time. After storming DS9 you help defend against the Federation counterattack, but there's a bit of down time as repairs to DS9 and familiarization training takes place. Vic Fontain becomes the repeated target of training simulations on Hadron's holosuites as young Jem Hadar learn to fight humans. Then you fight against the Federation in the Boldly episode, and when the dust settles and the Founder takes your captain back to the GQ, you are surprised to learn the A-B governments want to trade ships and crews in cultural exchange, and from that point on you get to work for one of the factions as you go through the rest of the story.
This would require the DQ episode chain to be able to carry your character to level 40+, and it would allow for the creation of GQ episodes for existing captains who, finally free of Iconian troubles, get to go back to exploration.
Cryptic has already said they would never do a LoR sized faction again because it would be impossible to catch them up at this point(likely referring to all the ship bundles and things the 3 factions have gotten since LoR came out)
If we do get a Cardassian faction, it will be done AoY style, with the option to pick between Fed/KDF at the end like the Roms got.
Cardassians also simply don't need a faction as large as what the Romulans got because they have effectively been a Federatioon client state for the last 30 years, and the Federation has helped them rebuild from the Dominion war, so there isn't all the problems in Cardassian space like the Romulans had.
from what you are saying, it makes sense, i didn't think of it like this before. What would be in it for a Cardassian faction if there is only an AoY type of deal.
I still think that the Dominion would be worth a second look at something beyond AoY and more towards LoR. There is signifcantly more history there and it can't be solved in a few missions, it would need to have a good storyline as to why the Dominion has changed tack and supporting the Alliance all of a sudden despite their isolationist, imperialist approach to their enemies. 2800 would need a second look as well but i could see 2800 happening earlier in 2409 and not long after the Dominion come back en-masse as refugees looking for help and a home.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
from what you are saying, it makes sense, i didn't think of it like this before. What would be in it for a Cardassian faction if there is only an AoY type of deal.
I still think that the Dominion would be worth a second look at something beyond AoY and more towards LoR. There is signifcantly more history there and it can't be solved in a few missions, it would need to have a good storyline as to why the Dominion has changed tack and supporting the Alliance all of a sudden despite their isolationist, imperialist approach to their enemies. 2800 would need a second look as well but i could see 2800 happening earlier in 2409 and not long after the Dominion come back en-masse as refugees looking for help and a home.
The 2800 arc happens in 2410, since its right before the Breen arc, and we know the Breen arc ends early June 2410.
For storyline sake it may have to be moved to early 2409 so all the other storylines can play out.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Thing is everything you mentioned is exactly why it should be shoehorned earlier, how would it make any sense for a rogue Dominion fleet taking a founder back through to the GQ when the remaining Dominion Forces are already in the AQ?
Or for that Matter how would a storyline with these rogue Dominion force even happen if there is already an Founder on hand to see off the invasion before it happens?
It's all got to fit into the storyline starting with the Klingon-Federation war and then Spectres, especially if the Dominion is going down the route of the Romulans, even AoY started just before Dana Brott and the Azura in the Klingon Federation war. It shouldn't starting in 2410 otherwise going through wars that happened a year earlier without a temporal paradox isn't likey to make as much sense.
Can we find a common ground on what, where and how this happens? this is all speculation so far and i would like to know where you feel it could go rather than saying it should stay at this location in 2410.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
If any of this does happened, Cryptic will likely go the route that GECKO said they might take with the Cardassians some time ago, and just have them start at like level 50-60.
Essentially bypassing everything to have it take place now.
Uhh...hmm... I don't know how I'd feel about that.
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Honestly if they had the characters starting at level 50-60, which in essence means skipping most of the early mission content prior to the Dyson sphere or Delta arcs, than I would hope that we could still see the possibility of a Delta quad faction addition as well.
Comments
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
My character Tsin'xing
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
if these crystals are a terraforming device, wouldn't these crystals had already started terraforming a planets atmosphere as soon as it got into the upper atmosphere?
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
When they assume human form.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I can imagine a Jem'Hadar in the KDF but without a supply of Ketracel white, the Jem'Hadar PC wouldn't last long unless the Dominion has gone to the trouble of removing the need for the White and found a better way of controlling their soldiers. There could be a whole line of defective Jem'Hadar that escaped and joined the KDF to fight honorably. Just remember there is a misison where you destroy a Ketracel facility in Cardassian space, meaning that Ketracel White is even more sparse to get a hold of.
A Vorta is as manipulative as he or she is cunning. A Vorta may fit right in on Rator III with the Imperial forces but not with the Republic. The Republic discarded their treacherous traits that held the old empire back. If there are to be Vorta in the Republic they got to be less treacherous and more honor bound while still being able to keep up with their usual specialised based tasks.
You may also want to note that the Alpha Jem'Hadar is an old cast off from the Dominion war while the Gamma Jem'Hadar has been upgraded recently, they even got long hair and look tougher as well as better shrouding, it possible they may have no need for Ketracel White as it's naturally produced in their bodies.
I could see your story working, but the part about the Dominion cloning facility and the true way, that should be replaced by something like: The Dominion are forced into the Alpha Quadrant and one of their ships with almost fully grown Jem'Hadar is shot at in an accident and it causes a surge in the ship, enough that when the Clones finally do connect up to a brand new cloning facility that they are different, their minds are free from the brainwashing that was programmed into their minds. It turns out the software that monitors these Jem'Hadar overloaded the brain structures enough to remove conditioning but not make them forgot what they are, however the new facility comes under attack from the True way. As a new Soldier, you need to find a set of armour, a weapon and fight your way to victory, but in the process the Dominion facility is blown up and a new one needs to be constructed.
Your PC is then found by alliance ships in the abndoned wreckage of the facility and from there your PC is given a new life.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I can somewhat agree, but yet I do not think that the white is that rare, since there were facilities that still could create it. Also the Son'a were creating it for the Dominion as well, so they might sell it, or some groups might attempt to raid their facilities for it. Though as you said some Jem'hadar can overcome the addiction, or are able to create the drug within their bodies actually. So that is just as likely a way of explaining how they can be used, without needing the use of the white as much.
Though I will say the idea of using the alpha jem'hadar is that they are much more apt to take independent action to complete an objective, while gammas are more apt to take no action till ordered, and I could see the Founders not wanting to introduce that into the gamma after how badly the alphas did comparatively (also to keep more control over them). Also I could see the alphas having been adjusted to need less, or be less addicted to the white during the war as the supply was much lower till the Son's began to use their facilities to create it.
I would say they would fit in quite well in both areas, since being cunning an manipulitive is still a very good thing, just a matter of how it is used. An so yeah I would agree the Vorta pc would be quite abit different from other Vorta, but we have seen that Vorta have quite a bit of variety to them.
The idea of the True way finding/using a cloning facility is more to explain how they would take part in the early parts of the missions prior to the expansion. This is less of a full faction, and more of a addition to the existing factions an so you would need to explain how the Jem'hadar/Vorta are around prior to events of the new expansion. I could see both working though.
While I know it won't be a popular idea, I believe Jem Hadar should not be a playable race, instead being limited to BOff and DOff status. The playable race should be Vorta who command and control the Jem Hadar. Jem Hadar make good soldiers but lousy diplomats, scientists, or engineers. Vorta are specifically designed for those roles, and Jem Hadar are bred to obey them.
Random Mission Example:
"Jem Hadar Captain, the ship is carrying a plague, what should we do?"
"Can we weaponize the plague for use against our enemies?"
"No, Jem Hadar Captain, you tossed our Vorta scientist out of the airlock for trying to give you an order."
"Then destroy the ship so no one else can weaponize the plague and use it against us."
"Aye, First. Target destroyed."
"Good, does Starfleet have our next mission?"
"I don't know, sir."
"Why not?"
"That plague ship was carrying the Admiral who assigns us to missions."
When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. Jem Hadar are too specifically designed as soldiers to be anything else. Now, of course, this is a statement of opinion, and your ideas may differ. But the only times we saw Jem Hadar without a Vorta commander in canon was when something went horribly wrong.
As was pointed out to me earlier in this topic, in the DOffing system there are three Gamma Quadrant races associated with the Federation and three associated with the Klingons. Any of these could be playable races aligned with the factions, with Vorta available to both. And Jem Hadar would make excellent Tactical and security BOffs and DOffs, just as they are now.
If a Gamma Quadrant starter quest is created, it would have to rejoin the main story arc after Boldly They Rode. An idea I had for a Gamma Quadrant Cultural Exchange could even use that story as its foundation. Here is an example:
The Gamma Quadrant Starter quest touches on the various Dominion races as your captain levels up, leading to an assignment to participate in the capture of DS9. The minefield is finally breached, and you join the armada sailing to the Alpha Quadrant, only to discover that you've been jumped forward in time. After storming DS9 you help defend against the Federation counterattack, but there's a bit of down time as repairs to DS9 and familiarization training takes place. Vic Fontain becomes the repeated target of training simulations on Hadron's holosuites as young Jem Hadar learn to fight humans. Then you fight against the Federation in the Boldly episode, and when the dust settles and the Founder takes your captain back to the GQ, you are surprised to learn the A-B governments want to trade ships and crews in cultural exchange, and from that point on you get to work for one of the factions as you go through the rest of the story.
This would require the DQ episode chain to be able to carry your character to level 40+, and it would allow for the creation of GQ episodes for existing captains who, finally free of Iconian troubles, get to go back to exploration.
from what you are saying, it makes sense, i didn't think of it like this before. What would be in it for a Cardassian faction if there is only an AoY type of deal.
I still think that the Dominion would be worth a second look at something beyond AoY and more towards LoR. There is signifcantly more history there and it can't be solved in a few missions, it would need to have a good storyline as to why the Dominion has changed tack and supporting the Alliance all of a sudden despite their isolationist, imperialist approach to their enemies. 2800 would need a second look as well but i could see 2800 happening earlier in 2409 and not long after the Dominion come back en-masse as refugees looking for help and a home.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
For storyline sake it may have to be moved to early 2409 so all the other storylines can play out.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Or for that Matter how would a storyline with these rogue Dominion force even happen if there is already an Founder on hand to see off the invasion before it happens?
It's all got to fit into the storyline starting with the Klingon-Federation war and then Spectres, especially if the Dominion is going down the route of the Romulans, even AoY started just before Dana Brott and the Azura in the Klingon Federation war. It shouldn't starting in 2410 otherwise going through wars that happened a year earlier without a temporal paradox isn't likey to make as much sense.
Can we find a common ground on what, where and how this happens? this is all speculation so far and i would like to know where you feel it could go rather than saying it should stay at this location in 2410.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Uhh...hmm... I don't know how I'd feel about that.
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