If I wasn't dubious enough about the merits (or lack thereof) relating to the Endeavor system, this definitely doesn't help endorse it:
The infotooltip states that Dilithium will be received, but what is actually granted is Dilithium Ore, which needs to be refined. That is very misleading and I think it is intentionally written to be so.
I was discussing this with another player while I was testing the boxes and they said "I'd participate in the Endeavor system if it granted refined Dilithium, but if it's ore, then it's not worth my time".
FYI, that was a small amount, the first box I opened granted 10,000 ore.
Given that it is possible to exceed the daily refining limit quite easily, adding more unrefined ore is just going to make a difficult situation more complicated.
Players who have a stockpile of unrefined ore would mostly likely avoid the Endeavor system just to make sure they don't receive more to process.
The impression being made here is that the rewards are not significant enough to motivate participation in a system designed specifically to increase metrics.
Have you ever played STO before? Dilithium is always awarded as dil ore.
Use your brain man.
There is no need to be so rude and you are wrong as well. It doesn't always come as raw dill ore. Sometimes you get special pre refined Dilithium that you can spend right away.
repetitiveepic seems to be right though as a status quo the dilithium is dilithium ore mostly to then be refined. Either way I'm always accepting of it. You sort of prove that yourself, pottsey5g, by stating, "Sometimes you get special pre refined Dilithium that you can spend right away." Special being not the normal circumstance, but again, I think both should be accepted & appreciated.
While I agree it’s not normal circumstance it’s been done more than once before when you get special dill you can spend right away without having to refine it. They could add limited amounts of that into the Endeavor System to make it worthwhile for those of us with large amounts of raw ore.
In around 15mins playtime a day I am so far over the daily refine dill cap that more dill is next to useless for me. I know a lot of other players are in the same situation. The problem isn't getting raw ore, the problem is refining it.
If the devs don’t want to add the special dill to spend right away way not add a credit voucher that turns x amount of raw into refined? Now that would be a worthwhile reward that would make me play more. With a limit of 1 box per 24hours and not all boxes would have the voucher it would feel like a really nice reward without flooding raw into refined.
At the moment the Endeavor system fails to do what its meant to for many long term players.
Don't see why people are complaining about it.
Guess I just don't understand the problem.
Well, basically, for the experienced and long term player, additional unrefined Dilithium is essentially unusable.
With the backlog of unprocessed ore some players have on standby, asking them to add more isn't a practical suggestion.
So they'd naturally avoid it because there is nothing to gain except additional inconvenience.
I only collect unrefined Dil minimally and I still get a 3 day refining backlog every 10 days, guaranteed.
And that's without having to go anywhere, it can all be done using the Admiralty interface.
If I do an Advanced STF, there's another 1k ore added. If I play a few more for fun, I'm just making the stockpile larger.
So a serious ore collector would have a lot more difficulty with it.
So as the intention is to motivate players to play more, they have to attach more significant rewards to Endeavor, something that is a meaningful incentive.
Lobi crystals, refined ore, c-points, anything that will provide meaningful benefits.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
You also turn on VIP Mining Claims for refined Fleet or Reputation Dilitium.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
If I wasn't dubious enough about the merits (or lack thereof) relating to the Endeavor system, this definitely doesn't help endorse it:
The infotooltip states that Dilithium will be received, but what is actually granted is Dilithium Ore, which needs to be refined. That is very misleading and I think it is intentionally written to be so.
I was discussing this with another player while I was testing the boxes and they said "I'd participate in the Endeavor system if it granted refined Dilithium, but if it's ore, then it's not worth my time".
FYI, that was a small amount, the first box I opened granted 10,000 ore.
Given that it is possible to exceed the daily refining limit quite easily, adding more unrefined ore is just going to make a difficult situation more complicated.
Players who have a stockpile of unrefined ore would mostly likely avoid the Endeavor system just to make sure they don't receive more to process.
The impression being made here is that the rewards are not significant enough to motivate participation in a system designed specifically to increase metrics.
Have you ever played STO before? Dilithium is always awarded as dil ore.
Use your brain man.
Usually... there have been exceptions. One possible reward for the anniversary daily is 500 refined dil. Also there is at least one doff mission that has you spend Unrefined dil.
Personally, I've got no problem with unrefined, but then - while I have played since 2012, I'm not a "pro" player. I've got a dozen alts that I do a little on each, not a couple characters that have vast piles of unrefined sitting around. Aside from Dil weekends (when I turn in Mining Claims) and finishing up T5 reps, I've never had a refinement backlog. /shrug
But there's a thought - if you've got extra character slots/alts, the Endeavor pack is account bound. Just pass it off to an alt, and let them open & refine. Presto, more refined dil...
Don't see why people are complaining about it.
Guess I just don't understand the problem.
Well, basically, for the experienced and long term player, additional unrefined Dilithium is essentially unusable.
With the backlog of unprocessed ore some players have on standby, asking them to add more isn't a practical suggestion.
So they'd naturally avoid it because there is nothing to gain except additional inconvenience.
I only collect unrefined Dil minimally and I still get a 3 day refining backlog every 10 days, guaranteed.
And that's without having to go anywhere, it can all be done using the Admiralty interface.
If I do an Advanced STF, there's another 1k ore added. If I play a few more for fun, I'm just making the stockpile larger.
So a serious ore collector would have a lot more difficulty with it.
So as the intention is to motivate players to play more, they have to attach more significant rewards to Endeavor, something that is a meaningful incentive.
Lobi crystals, refined ore, c-points, anything that will provide meaningful benefits.
The experienced and long term player with very few old characters may not need the dilithium, but there's always EC, crafting materials and marks. If you're full up on all of those things, then I suppose that this system isn't for you. They aren't all going to be for you.
I do Admiralty every day on every character, but I only set 8 assignments and forget it until tomorrow. I complete the Tour of Duty about every 14 or 15 days, and then I have a backlog, but only for a few days. then there are usually about 8 or 9 days where each character is short of the cap, unless they claimed a reputation Tier 5 reward or the end prize from one of the 14 day queue events. I'd still say that my characters are short of the total more often than they hit it. Looking at how reluctant people are to fill dilithium in fleet projects, I'd wager that more people are still looking for all of the dilithium that they can get than are bemoaning yet more unrefined dilithium.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
Our fleet is also working on filling an upgrade with Dil, but as it has been pointed out, with the backlog issue, unrefined ore means nothing to us, as we cannot use it immediately or maybe not even at all!
To be honest, I think Dil donation to fleets is not something anybody does, so collecting it won't change the situation.
Me personally, as soon as I get 100,000 refined Dil, it goes into the main project upgrade.
Alternate characters (in my opinion) is just impractical.
I believe you should only make characters if you intend to play them seriously, not for the purposes of having DilFarmer A-F.
I have 4 main characters and that's all I will have.
But considering they are all doing KDF Admiralty at the same time/rate, they usually hit the backlog cap at the exact same time!
Ultimately though, all of the above is a side issue.
I have played 3 mmos (one is Champions Online) where there are no content updates and the daily activities consist of just doing some random allocated task in endless repetition.
When I was doing that random task for the 100th time, I got bored and quit playing. Which is why I object to STO implementing a similar system.
Cryptic already had their chance to get me to play more and they haven't implemented the 4 content itemson my priority list, so they've already failed to get me to play more frequently. [img][/img]
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
But considering they are all doing KDF Admiralty at the same time/rate, they usually hit the backlog cap at the exact same time!
So start a fifth character. If you're putting in enough time across four characters that they're consistently backlogged then you quantifiably have the time to allocate to a serious fifth character (that extra time is roughly equal to the size of your consistent oversupply.) The sweet spot, I've found, is to have only 1 or 2 characters working through a large dilithium backlog at any given time (from KDF admiralty, which tracks with my focus on that character). The rest are then freely available to focus on with new builds, characters, plot progression, resources, and so on.
Shifting focus also breaks sync between characters' admiralty progression, so there's that to look forward to as well.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
The Gunnery Chief is now holding training sessions for officers unable to hit the 30 mark in the targeting range.
I have no interest in making another character because of the "been there, done that" principle.
And I did try having multiple characters in Champions Online, it didn't make the game any more interesting to play the same story content 14 times with different builds in addition to XP grinding. In point of fact, the more I did it, the less fun I had.
So based on that experience and a similar one in another mmo, that is why I am certain I don't enjoy having many characters.
FYI, I don't spend as much time ingame as you'd think, it's literally 20 minutes for 3 characters, 10 minutes for the 4th one.
10 for the admiralty session of the day, another 10 for the Fleet Queue, maximum time spent ingame per day: just over an hour.
Now if it was Lobi crystals awarded from Endeavor prize boxes then I'd be extremely interested in doing the daily task allocated as there is many exciting items in the Lobi Store to acquire.
Especially considering the average ship price is 800 crystals each.....
Post edited by tilarta on
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
An improvement to the system would be a timer to see when the next "challenge" becomes available.
Right now when an endeavor is active it shows the time remaining, but once an endeavor is finished it's a black hole with nobody being certain when the next endeavor challenge appears.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Nicely dropped the ball with this re hash of content ideas from games of yesteryear. Was it too difficult to be brave and let us donate unrefined ore to fleet projects. That automatically processed into refined ore and so helped both the fleet projects and those with stockpiles of unrefined ore? Dont't answer that just stick with serving up re heated grind ideas and see how long people stick around.
An improvement to the system would be a timer to see when the next "challenge" becomes available.
Right now when an endeavor is active it shows the time remaining, but once an endeavor is finished it's a black hole with nobody being certain when the next endeavor challenge appears.
Yeah, that would be nice. There's a lot of uncertainty you can throw down into that black hole. Having an incoming endeavor timer would pretty nullify the downside to that (just trying to keep track of what might be coming in the next few days.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
It woul have been nice if the original announcement of the Endeavor System had said that it was one mision/reward per account and if the Romulan Sector mission instructions hed been clearer about just what was meant by "three areas." I wasted a lot time looking for the unspecified items I was supposed to ollect. After roaming Romulan space, including visiting several star systems, I finally found out that I could finish the mission by simply picking up three crafting materials at Japori. I then wasted more time trying to figure out why my other toons couldn't open the Endeavor mission. I finally went back to the announcement, linked to the forums, scrolled through the numerous messages and finally found the one from one of the Devs telling us what we should have been told in the first place. Just another example of how little Cryptic's staff care about making the players feel like they are important to the Compnay as anything other than cash cows.
The lack of getting pre-refined dil from the endeavor is the ultimate Slap in the Face.
I can say I disagree here... I'm sitting on a couple million of unrefined dil. I dont even bother to use any alts anymore it is simply so boring... If they really want to clear the load they should give a box which uses unrefined or a issue items (toon bound) in the game or do something if they wont raise the daily limit.
Letting people donate unrefined ore to fleet projects would be a pretty quick way to get the dilex back up to 500 dil/zen so I say lets not do that.
You shouldnt be wasting dil on a fleet anyway just get provisions and use NoP Public Service.
I dont play the exchange game as I always spend real money since I dont belive in the entire F2P concept. While I agree with your notion that it is a waste in the first place in my opinion allowing that would be the single greatest thing they could do to help fleets and the player community. If they can build a starbase and other holdings surely they can process dil. Just sayin'....
If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
A 500/1 dil/zen would not help the player community it would wound it badly.
I think the F2P segment who dont actually spend real money would be adversely affected. That exchange rate is meaningless unless one is trying to get Zen to buy stuff in the store. I always always put real money in the game and buy directly from the store. I only use the Exchange to transfer dilith between toons, because of the daily cap, because of the F2P metric. Accordingly that price has never had an iota of impact on me or others just like me I know in game. Now I'm not trying to be an TRIBBLE but all the negatives are because of the need to force/incentivize people to spend money. Well there is a population of people like me who willingly throw hundreds of dollars at the game - continuously and we always seem to get inconvenienced, disenfranchised, and alienated because of the limited design metrics to motivate people to spend $10 - $20 a month on the service and the sad part of it all is that most of them wont do it.
Post edited by aspartan1 on
If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
I saw it was brought up in conversation earlier today in chat about whether or not these Endeavor System Prize Packs will be included in the Dilithium Bonus when they reward Dilithium so tomorrow will verify that one way or another.
I doubt it, but would be nice for those lucky enough with the randomness.
I think there needs to be something posted somewhere to go into more detail on the requirements for the Endeavour reward. I have been playing this game for years, but today's Endeavour says start a very rare R&D project, so that is what I did with an Engineering Plasma Injector, with the very rare bar at over 100%, but I did not get the Endeavour reward.
Can someone please explain?
Comments
In around 15mins playtime a day I am so far over the daily refine dill cap that more dill is next to useless for me. I know a lot of other players are in the same situation. The problem isn't getting raw ore, the problem is refining it.
If the devs don’t want to add the special dill to spend right away way not add a credit voucher that turns x amount of raw into refined? Now that would be a worthwhile reward that would make me play more. With a limit of 1 box per 24hours and not all boxes would have the voucher it would feel like a really nice reward without flooding raw into refined.
At the moment the Endeavor system fails to do what its meant to for many long term players.
Well, basically, for the experienced and long term player, additional unrefined Dilithium is essentially unusable.
With the backlog of unprocessed ore some players have on standby, asking them to add more isn't a practical suggestion.
So they'd naturally avoid it because there is nothing to gain except additional inconvenience.
I only collect unrefined Dil minimally and I still get a 3 day refining backlog every 10 days, guaranteed.
And that's without having to go anywhere, it can all be done using the Admiralty interface.
If I do an Advanced STF, there's another 1k ore added. If I play a few more for fun, I'm just making the stockpile larger.
So a serious ore collector would have a lot more difficulty with it.
So as the intention is to motivate players to play more, they have to attach more significant rewards to Endeavor, something that is a meaningful incentive.
Lobi crystals, refined ore, c-points, anything that will provide meaningful benefits.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
My character Tsin'xing
But there's a thought - if you've got extra character slots/alts, the Endeavor pack is account bound. Just pass it off to an alt, and let them open & refine. Presto, more refined dil...
The experienced and long term player with very few old characters may not need the dilithium, but there's always EC, crafting materials and marks. If you're full up on all of those things, then I suppose that this system isn't for you. They aren't all going to be for you.
I do Admiralty every day on every character, but I only set 8 assignments and forget it until tomorrow. I complete the Tour of Duty about every 14 or 15 days, and then I have a backlog, but only for a few days. then there are usually about 8 or 9 days where each character is short of the cap, unless they claimed a reputation Tier 5 reward or the end prize from one of the 14 day queue events. I'd still say that my characters are short of the total more often than they hit it. Looking at how reluctant people are to fill dilithium in fleet projects, I'd wager that more people are still looking for all of the dilithium that they can get than are bemoaning yet more unrefined dilithium.
My character Tsin'xing
To be honest, I think Dil donation to fleets is not something anybody does, so collecting it won't change the situation.
Me personally, as soon as I get 100,000 refined Dil, it goes into the main project upgrade.
Alternate characters (in my opinion) is just impractical.
I believe you should only make characters if you intend to play them seriously, not for the purposes of having DilFarmer A-F.
I have 4 main characters and that's all I will have.
But considering they are all doing KDF Admiralty at the same time/rate, they usually hit the backlog cap at the exact same time!
Ultimately though, all of the above is a side issue.
I have played 3 mmos (one is Champions Online) where there are no content updates and the daily activities consist of just doing some random allocated task in endless repetition.
When I was doing that random task for the 100th time, I got bored and quit playing.
Which is why I object to STO implementing a similar system.
Cryptic already had their chance to get me to play more and they haven't implemented the 4 content itemson my priority list, so they've already failed to get me to play more frequently.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
So start a fifth character. If you're putting in enough time across four characters that they're consistently backlogged then you quantifiably have the time to allocate to a serious fifth character (that extra time is roughly equal to the size of your consistent oversupply.) The sweet spot, I've found, is to have only 1 or 2 characters working through a large dilithium backlog at any given time (from KDF admiralty, which tracks with my focus on that character). The rest are then freely available to focus on with new builds, characters, plot progression, resources, and so on.
Shifting focus also breaks sync between characters' admiralty progression, so there's that to look forward to as well.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I have no interest in making another character because of the "been there, done that" principle.
And I did try having multiple characters in Champions Online, it didn't make the game any more interesting to play the same story content 14 times with different builds in addition to XP grinding. In point of fact, the more I did it, the less fun I had.
So based on that experience and a similar one in another mmo, that is why I am certain I don't enjoy having many characters.
FYI, I don't spend as much time ingame as you'd think, it's literally 20 minutes for 3 characters, 10 minutes for the 4th one.
10 for the admiralty session of the day, another 10 for the Fleet Queue, maximum time spent ingame per day: just over an hour.
Now if it was Lobi crystals awarded from Endeavor prize boxes then I'd be extremely interested in doing the daily task allocated as there is many exciting items in the Lobi Store to acquire.
Especially considering the average ship price is 800 crystals each.....
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Right now when an endeavor is active it shows the time remaining, but once an endeavor is finished it's a black hole with nobody being certain when the next endeavor challenge appears.
Nicely dropped the ball with this re hash of content ideas from games of yesteryear. Was it too difficult to be brave and let us donate unrefined ore to fleet projects. That automatically processed into refined ore and so helped both the fleet projects and those with stockpiles of unrefined ore? Dont't answer that just stick with serving up re heated grind ideas and see how long people stick around.
Yeah, that would be nice. There's a lot of uncertainty you can throw down into that black hole. Having an incoming endeavor timer would pretty nullify the downside to that (just trying to keep track of what might be coming in the next few days.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
yeah whatever cryptic swing an a miss on that one , shouldve been 0nce a day per toon
I can say I disagree here... I'm sitting on a couple million of unrefined dil. I dont even bother to use any alts anymore it is simply so boring... If they really want to clear the load they should give a box which uses unrefined or a issue items (toon bound) in the game or do something if they wont raise the daily limit. I dont play the exchange game as I always spend real money since I dont belive in the entire F2P concept. While I agree with your notion that it is a waste in the first place in my opinion allowing that would be the single greatest thing they could do to help fleets and the player community. If they can build a starbase and other holdings surely they can process dil. Just sayin'....
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
So did I. It also happened to be the first Endeavor I didn't ignore, harvesting three thingies in space is easy and quick.
Absolutely. But there´s more to it than that. The new endeavor system definitely adds insult to injury!
I think the F2P segment who dont actually spend real money would be adversely affected. That exchange rate is meaningless unless one is trying to get Zen to buy stuff in the store. I always always put real money in the game and buy directly from the store. I only use the Exchange to transfer dilith between toons, because of the daily cap, because of the F2P metric. Accordingly that price has never had an iota of impact on me or others just like me I know in game. Now I'm not trying to be an TRIBBLE but all the negatives are because of the need to force/incentivize people to spend money. Well there is a population of people like me who willingly throw hundreds of dollars at the game - continuously and we always seem to get inconvenienced, disenfranchised, and alienated because of the limited design metrics to motivate people to spend $10 - $20 a month on the service and the sad part of it all is that most of them wont do it.
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
I doubt it, but would be nice for those lucky enough with the randomness.
Can someone please explain?