Again, this decimation really changes nothing except giving people a happy feel good feeling(yes repetitive I know) but ultimately doesn't really fix anything.
Sorry noone has really explained how this changes really anything. Sure you could knock everything down 1 decimal point, but people could go right back and that ship they had at 345 million, suddenly gets devalued to 34.5 million, take it down and put it right back up at 345 million.
Since this is a player run economy it doesn't solve jack. Players can ALWAYS set the prices how they want. There's the sticking point in OP's plan.
You can't force people to set their prices lower. You simply make it harder to get EC, and people can STILL set whatever price they want, unless you're going to cap prices for items like the Tier 6 Kelvin Connie can ONLY be sold at 50 million or less.
Sorry OP, this just doesn't work except to make it harder to earn EC.
This is my main concern here, it does absolutely nothing to remove the excessive wealth owned by the upper crust, but it does make it more difficult for the bottom 90% to achieve 'space rich' status.
In theory it isn't a terrible idea, perhaps if it is done once in combination with additional EC sinks it could expedite economic stabilization. But on its own, it isn't feasable for a 'fix'.
Edit: Oops, didn't realize that would be filtered out lol. corrected.
You've got it entirely backwards I'm afraid.
Decimation or any other redenomination can't make it easier or harder for anyone to earn ec. Say now someone can earn 500k ec per day, and a key costs 5m ec.
After decimation, that same person could earn 50k ec per day, and a key would cost 500k. All that changes is that fewer digits are used in the integers representing EC. This solves the EC Storage Crisis without affecting anything else.
Using sinks to create deflation, where ec becomes more valuable in relation to items, only makes the space 'upper crust' richer.
Say that ec sinks are implemented and they cause the value of ec to double, so that keys become 2.5m instead of 5m.
A space tycoon who has 20b ec in cash and chooses not to participate in the ec sink will end up twice as rich as he was before.
and again what does that change? Not a goddamn thing! How many times must I explain this for you to get it. You can drop the market and our currency down 1 decimal. It does not stop people from pulling down their items, and putting them right back up for that same amount you just dropped it down 1 decimal.
All it does then is make it that much harder to get said item. You've fixed nothing except have a nice feel good job done.
YOU'RE NOT SOLVING ANYTHING. Catch a clue.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
It seems my point is either being ignored or misinterpreted.
No matter, since these conversations/discussions are academic, I see no point in trying to explain my views further.
Enjoy your discussion. Good day.
I'm with you. Most who agree with the OP seem to think that we just drop one decimal and everyone will stay at that. They don't seem to comprehend this is a PLAYER DRIVEN economy. Where you can drop down 1 decimal and it really won't make much of a difference.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
It seems my point is either being ignored or misinterpreted.
No matter, since these conversations/discussions are academic, I see no point in trying to explain my views further.
Enjoy your discussion. Good day.
I'm with you. Most who agree with the OP seem to think that we just drop one decimal and everyone will stay at that. They don't seem to comprehend this is a PLAYER DRIVEN economy. Where you can drop down 1 decimal and it really won't make much of a difference.
You are wrong in believing this. "PLAYER DRIVEN economy" is not a talisman that can be invoked to wash away, by magic, any form of rational or coherent thinking.
It isnt a magical incantation.
I'm just going to agree to disagree on thinking this will change anything except make it harder when people jack up the prices. won't solve anything. but you can keep thinking it will.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I'm not sure if you're just trying to be difficult or if you actually believe what you're stating.
Semantics aside, neither 'decimation' nor increasing the credit cap (both of which would have the same overall effect) would address the issue of nothing to spend the credits on, outside of the exchange** to keep the economy in proper balance.
There needs to be more expensive 'shinies' to buy (from vendors) with credits.
**Which would not remove the credits from the game, just redistribute them to another player.
Change the Doff assignments to Fleets to either be the same that they did with Reputation Projects - converted to Dilitium at 100:1, or add an EC donation for the Doffs at 5000:1.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Oddly enough I agree with your concept. There actually is too much EC floating around the STO economy.
However, I cannot agree with effectively stealing 90% of players' wealth. This would create much discord among players who would feel they were robbed by the developers of their hard-earned currency.
There needs to be a way to remove EC from the economy without arbitrarily taking it away.
Read the post again maybe?
Decimation would not change anyone's wealth. 1m ec would become 100k, an item worth 1m would become worth 100k. An item that vendored for 30k would vendor for 3k.
All the ec in the game would need to be decimated at the same time, and all ec rewards also decimated.
Consider it another way. If all the ec was divided by 1,000, and then the letters "ec" changed to "kec" for "thousand ec," no one would gain or lose any wealth would they?
100,000 ec (100k ec) would be changed to 100 kec.
I read it. No need to for the condescending tone. I understand that the actual value of EC would remain (assuming that in-game prices/fees were also reduced accordingly). I was , however, referring to the perception that players would no doubt have of being robbed by the developers.
The massive amount of currency floating around isn't the real problem, it's merely a symptom of the real issue, which is there is not enough things to spend money on (aside from the Exchange, which would not remove EC from the economy only redistribute it to other players). Sadly this issue has been around for quite a while, and has only gotten worse with Admirality and other means of aquiring EC with little effort.
Education is the silver bullet. Once people have it explained to them anyone can understand it.
Be that as it may, think about it in terms of the economy of whatever country you currently live in.
If the federal government came in and said "We're going to cut the prices of all goods and services to 10% of their current value," everyone would cheer.
Follow that up with "We're also going to cut everyone's wealth, paychecks, and all sources of savings, investments, and income to 10% of their current value," and you'd have a nationwide riot on your hands.
It does not matter that the system would not change at all and that everything would be the same relative price. In fact, economists would laugh at it, as it's just a lot of work to keep us at the same relative level.
It does precisely jack all to alleviate the issue, and in fact, it creates more issues, as there is precisely nothing stopping a seller from raising the prices to higher than before.
In the end, the only net gain you get is more highly inflated prices for objects compared to their value.
Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
Oddly enough I agree with your concept. There actually is too much EC floating around the STO economy.
However, I cannot agree with effectively stealing 90% of players' wealth. This would create much discord among players who would feel they were robbed by the developers of their hard-earned currency.
There needs to be a way to remove EC from the economy without arbitrarily taking it away.
Read the post again maybe?
Decimation would not change anyone's wealth. 1m ec would become 100k, an item worth 1m would become worth 100k. An item that vendored for 30k would vendor for 3k.
All the ec in the game would need to be decimated at the same time, and all ec rewards also decimated.
Consider it another way. If all the ec was divided by 1,000, and then the letters "ec" changed to "kec" for "thousand ec," no one would gain or lose any wealth would they?
100,000 ec (100k ec) would be changed to 100 kec.
I read it. No need to for the condescending tone. I understand that the actual value of EC would remain (assuming that in-game prices/fees were also reduced accordingly). I was , however, referring to the perception that players would no doubt have of being robbed by the developers.
The massive amount of currency floating around isn't the real problem, it's merely a symptom of the real issue, which is there is not enough things to spend money on (aside from the Exchange, which would not remove EC from the economy only redistribute it to other players). Sadly this issue has been around for quite a while, and has only gotten worse with Admirality and other means of aquiring EC with little effort.
Education is the silver bullet. Once people have it explained to them anyone can understand it.
Be that as it may, think about it in terms of the economy of whatever country you currently live in.
If the federal government came in and said "We're going to cut the prices of all goods and services to 10% of their current value," everyone would cheer.
Follow that up with "We're also going to cut everyone's wealth, paychecks, and all sources of savings, investments, and income to 10% of their current value," and you'd have a nationwide riot on your hands.
It does not matter that the system would not change at all and that everything would be the same relative price. In fact, economists would laugh at it, as it's just a lot of work to keep us at the same relative level.
It does precisely jack all to alleviate the issue, and in fact, it creates more issues, as there is precisely nothing stopping a seller from raising the prices to higher than before.
In the end, the only net gain you get is more highly inflated prices for objects compared to their value.
Now this man understands.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Oddly enough I agree with your concept. There actually is too much EC floating around the STO economy.
However, I cannot agree with effectively stealing 90% of players' wealth. This would create much discord among players who would feel they were robbed by the developers of their hard-earned currency.
There needs to be a way to remove EC from the economy without arbitrarily taking it away.
Read the post again maybe?
Decimation would not change anyone's wealth. 1m ec would become 100k, an item worth 1m would become worth 100k. An item that vendored for 30k would vendor for 3k.
All the ec in the game would need to be decimated at the same time, and all ec rewards also decimated.
Consider it another way. If all the ec was divided by 1,000, and then the letters "ec" changed to "kec" for "thousand ec," no one would gain or lose any wealth would they?
100,000 ec (100k ec) would be changed to 100 kec.
I read it. No need to for the condescending tone. I understand that the actual value of EC would remain (assuming that in-game prices/fees were also reduced accordingly). I was , however, referring to the perception that players would no doubt have of being robbed by the developers.
The massive amount of currency floating around isn't the real problem, it's merely a symptom of the real issue, which is there is not enough things to spend money on (aside from the Exchange, which would not remove EC from the economy only redistribute it to other players). Sadly this issue has been around for quite a while, and has only gotten worse with Admirality and other means of aquiring EC with little effort.
Education is the silver bullet. Once people have it explained to them anyone can understand it.
Be that as it may, think about it in terms of the economy of whatever country you currently live in.
If the federal government came in and said "We're going to cut the prices of all goods and services to 10% of their current value," everyone would cheer.
Follow that up with "We're also going to cut everyone's wealth, paychecks, and all sources of savings, investments, and income to 10% of their current value," and you'd have a nationwide riot on your hands.
It does not matter that the system would not change at all and that everything would be the same relative price. In fact, economists would laugh at it, as it's just a lot of work to keep us at the same relative level.
It does precisely jack all to alleviate the issue, and in fact, it creates more issues, as there is precisely nothing stopping a seller from raising the prices to higher than before.
In the end, the only net gain you get is more highly inflated prices for objects compared to their value.
Now this man understands.
No, I'm afraid he does not. Nothing keeps players from asking for highly inflated prices right now. In case you don't know, master keys have replaced EC as currency for everything that is more expensive than 750m EC. You could try to sell a rare ship for 1000 master keys if you wanted but you would have a very hard time finding someone who takes your offer.
And his example has nothing to do with reality. If a country needs to reform its currency (because a severe devaluation has taken place), it won't cut prices first and savings, salaries and accounts afterwards. It will announce the new currency, set a fixed exchange rate (old/new) and convert all accounts, paychecks and taxes into the new currency. And there would be no riot, because you would have to work just as long for a steak then as you had to before.
how about adopting neverwinters AD tax?, whenever someone puts something up for sale on the exchange the player is charged an extra 1% EC of the items sale price.
Draal - FED, Saurian, LV60 - TAC
Mirak - FED 23c, Vulkan, LV60 - TAC
Ascaran Bloodclaw - KDF, Gorn, Lv18 - TAC
Melchiah - KDF, Gorn, LV60 - TAC
Ne'roon - KDF,Lethian, L60, TAC
Turel - ROM-KDF, Reman, 30, TAC
Elric - ROM-Fed, Romulan, L60, TAC
Richtor Belmont - FED 23c, Human,LV20, SCI
G'Kar - KDF, Gorn, L10
USS Sharlin NCC79713 B (part of sheridans access code) - T6, Hestia Class Advanced Escort
USS Babylon IV - T6 Krenim Science Vessel
USS Brakiri - T6 Elachi Escort
"I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star."
"We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light."
how about adopting neverwinters AD tax?, whenever someone puts something up for sale on the exchange the player is charged an extra 1% EC of the items sale price.
Would have no impact as people dont sell 'high value' stuff on the exchange and would just move goods into direct trade channels. Trading through barter by paying in keys wouldnt even cost much at all either if the tax was also applied to direct trades as keys have little to no value in the games engine.
Nothing keeps players from asking for highly inflated prices right now.
Devil's advocate - nothing would keep them from asking highly inflated prices after decimation either. Were an item selling for 100 million EC prior to decimation, you would still have people asking for 100 million afterward.
And absolutely nobody would buy it because neither supply nor demand would change after a decimation. It's a central feature of market economy that you can't sell items for whatever price you want. Not even a monopoly can ask for infinetly high prices. As a seller you need to find an equilibrium price at which you are still willing to sell, and somebody else is willing to buy.
Oddly enough I agree with your concept. There actually is too much EC floating around the STO economy.
However, I cannot agree with effectively stealing 90% of players' wealth. This would create much discord among players who would feel they were robbed by the developers of their hard-earned currency.
There needs to be a way to remove EC from the economy without arbitrarily taking it away.
Read the post again maybe?
Decimation would not change anyone's wealth. 1m ec would become 100k, an item worth 1m would become worth 100k. An item that vendored for 30k would vendor for 3k.
All the ec in the game would need to be decimated at the same time, and all ec rewards also decimated.
Consider it another way. If all the ec was divided by 1,000, and then the letters "ec" changed to "kec" for "thousand ec," no one would gain or lose any wealth would they?
100,000 ec (100k ec) would be changed to 100 kec.
I read it. No need to for the condescending tone. I understand that the actual value of EC would remain (assuming that in-game prices/fees were also reduced accordingly). I was , however, referring to the perception that players would no doubt have of being robbed by the developers.
The massive amount of currency floating around isn't the real problem, it's merely a symptom of the real issue, which is there is not enough things to spend money on (aside from the Exchange, which would not remove EC from the economy only redistribute it to other players). Sadly this issue has been around for quite a while, and has only gotten worse with Admirality and other means of aquiring EC with little effort.
Education is the silver bullet. Once people have it explained to them anyone can understand it.
Be that as it may, think about it in terms of the economy of whatever country you currently live in.
If the federal government came in and said "We're going to cut the prices of all goods and services to 10% of their current value," everyone would cheer.
Follow that up with "We're also going to cut everyone's wealth, paychecks, and all sources of savings, investments, and income to 10% of their current value," and you'd have a nationwide riot on your hands.
It does not matter that the system would not change at all and that everything would be the same relative price. In fact, economists would laugh at it, as it's just a lot of work to keep us at the same relative level.
It does precisely jack all to alleviate the issue, and in fact, it creates more issues, as there is precisely nothing stopping a seller from raising the prices to higher than before.
In the end, the only net gain you get is more highly inflated prices for objects compared to their value.
Now this man understands.
No, I'm afraid he does not. Nothing keeps players from asking for highly inflated prices right now. In case you don't know, master keys have replaced EC as currency for everything that is more expensive than 750m EC. You could try to sell a rare ship for 1000 master keys if you wanted but you would have a very hard time finding someone who takes your offer.
And his example has nothing to do with reality. If a country needs to reform its currency (because a severe devaluation has taken place), it won't cut prices first and savings, salaries and accounts afterwards. It will announce the new currency, set a fixed exchange rate (old/new) and convert all accounts, paychecks and taxes into the new currency. And there would be no riot, because you would have to work just as long for a steak then as you had to before.
You're assuming that the average person would care that things are the same. The only thing they will see is that their paycheck got cut by 90% and they lost 90% of their wealth.
If you got used to getting a paycheck for $1000, you would be absolutely livid when it suddenly got cut to $100, I don't care who you are. It doesn't matter that everything else got cut as well.
Also, look at basic psychology. Someone is more likely to purchase an item for 10 million EC than for 100 million, even if it is technically the same price. The impression is that it's a discount. It's the same reason why people won't buy an item priced at $100 regularly, but WILL buy that item if it's $100 marked down from $130.
Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
how about adopting neverwinters AD tax?, whenever someone puts something up for sale on the exchange the player is charged an extra 1% EC of the items sale price.
Would have no impact as people dont sell 'high value' stuff on the exchange and would just move goods into direct trade channels. Trading through barter by paying in keys wouldnt even cost much at all either if the tax was also applied to direct trades as keys have little to no value in the games engine.
the sale price is set by the player and not the value of the item itself, they would be charged an extra 1% or a tax value set by cryptic.
Draal - FED, Saurian, LV60 - TAC
Mirak - FED 23c, Vulkan, LV60 - TAC
Ascaran Bloodclaw - KDF, Gorn, Lv18 - TAC
Melchiah - KDF, Gorn, LV60 - TAC
Ne'roon - KDF,Lethian, L60, TAC
Turel - ROM-KDF, Reman, 30, TAC
Elric - ROM-Fed, Romulan, L60, TAC
Richtor Belmont - FED 23c, Human,LV20, SCI
G'Kar - KDF, Gorn, L10
USS Sharlin NCC79713 B (part of sheridans access code) - T6, Hestia Class Advanced Escort
USS Babylon IV - T6 Krenim Science Vessel
USS Brakiri - T6 Elachi Escort
"I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star."
"We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light."
A tax would remove a percent of ec from the game but why stop at 1%, charge the seller 5%, while this may raise prices slightly and move a few items off the exchange if the true goal is to easy the burden on the serves this would help with both the ec volume and the exchange volume.
Oddly enough I agree with your concept. There actually is too much EC floating around the STO economy.
However, I cannot agree with effectively stealing 90% of players' wealth. This would create much discord among players who would feel they were robbed by the developers of their hard-earned currency.
There needs to be a way to remove EC from the economy without arbitrarily taking it away.
Read the post again maybe?
Decimation would not change anyone's wealth. 1m ec would become 100k, an item worth 1m would become worth 100k. An item that vendored for 30k would vendor for 3k.
All the ec in the game would need to be decimated at the same time, and all ec rewards also decimated.
Consider it another way. If all the ec was divided by 1,000, and then the letters "ec" changed to "kec" for "thousand ec," no one would gain or lose any wealth would they?
100,000 ec (100k ec) would be changed to 100 kec.
I read it. No need to for the condescending tone. I understand that the actual value of EC would remain (assuming that in-game prices/fees were also reduced accordingly). I was , however, referring to the perception that players would no doubt have of being robbed by the developers.
The massive amount of currency floating around isn't the real problem, it's merely a symptom of the real issue, which is there is not enough things to spend money on (aside from the Exchange, which would not remove EC from the economy only redistribute it to other players). Sadly this issue has been around for quite a while, and has only gotten worse with Admirality and other means of aquiring EC with little effort.
Education is the silver bullet. Once people have it explained to them anyone can understand it.
Be that as it may, think about it in terms of the economy of whatever country you currently live in.
If the federal government came in and said "We're going to cut the prices of all goods and services to 10% of their current value," everyone would cheer.
Follow that up with "We're also going to cut everyone's wealth, paychecks, and all sources of savings, investments, and income to 10% of their current value," and you'd have a nationwide riot on your hands.
It does not matter that the system would not change at all and that everything would be the same relative price. In fact, economists would laugh at it, as it's just a lot of work to keep us at the same relative level.
It does precisely jack all to alleviate the issue, and in fact, it creates more issues, as there is precisely nothing stopping a seller from raising the prices to higher than before.
In the end, the only net gain you get is more highly inflated prices for objects compared to their value.
Now this man understands.
No, I'm afraid he does not. Nothing keeps players from asking for highly inflated prices right now. In case you don't know, master keys have replaced EC as currency for everything that is more expensive than 750m EC. You could try to sell a rare ship for 1000 master keys if you wanted but you would have a very hard time finding someone who takes your offer.
And his example has nothing to do with reality. If a country needs to reform its currency (because a severe devaluation has taken place), it won't cut prices first and savings, salaries and accounts afterwards. It will announce the new currency, set a fixed exchange rate (old/new) and convert all accounts, paychecks and taxes into the new currency. And there would be no riot, because you would have to work just as long for a steak then as you had to before.
You're assuming that the average person would care that things are the same. The only thing they will see is that their paycheck got cut by 90% and they lost 90% of their wealth.
If you got used to getting a paycheck for $1000, you would be absolutely livid when it suddenly got cut to $100, I don't care who you are. It doesn't matter that everything else got cut as well.
Also, look at basic psychology. Someone is more likely to purchase an item for 10 million EC than for 100 million, even if it is technically the same price. The impression is that it's a discount. It's the same reason why people won't buy an item priced at $100 regularly, but WILL buy that item if it's $100 marked down from $130.
That's the point. Their wealth, wages, taxes and bills would be exactly the same. It's like you would convert all your wealth from US Dollars into British pounds. The numbers on your bills and checks would change but you would still be just as wealthy (or poor) as before.
The psychological effect of large numbers is very short dated. As soon as people get used to the new currency it won't have any effect anymore. Surely you have traveled to a foreign country where you had to pay with very large bills. How long till you got used to the large sums?
crazy idea: add a small bit of ec to the cost of item starting with items no one cares about slow moving on to more important things. then nerf ec generation a little, in the case of admiralty alot. point being not to solve the problem all at once but slow it down and give whatever the big answer turns out to be a chance to actually work instead of just wasting everyone's time.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Oddly enough I agree with your concept. There actually is too much EC floating around the STO economy.
However, I cannot agree with effectively stealing 90% of players' wealth. This would create much discord among players who would feel they were robbed by the developers of their hard-earned currency.
There needs to be a way to remove EC from the economy without arbitrarily taking it away.
Read the post again maybe?
Decimation would not change anyone's wealth. 1m ec would become 100k, an item worth 1m would become worth 100k. An item that vendored for 30k would vendor for 3k.
All the ec in the game would need to be decimated at the same time, and all ec rewards also decimated.
Consider it another way. If all the ec was divided by 1,000, and then the letters "ec" changed to "kec" for "thousand ec," no one would gain or lose any wealth would they?
100,000 ec (100k ec) would be changed to 100 kec.
I read it. No need to for the condescending tone. I understand that the actual value of EC would remain (assuming that in-game prices/fees were also reduced accordingly). I was , however, referring to the perception that players would no doubt have of being robbed by the developers.
The massive amount of currency floating around isn't the real problem, it's merely a symptom of the real issue, which is there is not enough things to spend money on (aside from the Exchange, which would not remove EC from the economy only redistribute it to other players). Sadly this issue has been around for quite a while, and has only gotten worse with Admirality and other means of aquiring EC with little effort.
Education is the silver bullet. Once people have it explained to them anyone can understand it.
Be that as it may, think about it in terms of the economy of whatever country you currently live in.
If the federal government came in and said "We're going to cut the prices of all goods and services to 10% of their current value," everyone would cheer.
Follow that up with "We're also going to cut everyone's wealth, paychecks, and all sources of savings, investments, and income to 10% of their current value," and you'd have a nationwide riot on your hands.
It does not matter that the system would not change at all and that everything would be the same relative price. In fact, economists would laugh at it, as it's just a lot of work to keep us at the same relative level.
It does precisely jack all to alleviate the issue, and in fact, it creates more issues, as there is precisely nothing stopping a seller from raising the prices to higher than before.
In the end, the only net gain you get is more highly inflated prices for objects compared to their value.
Now this man understands.
No, I'm afraid he does not. Nothing keeps players from asking for highly inflated prices right now. In case you don't know, master keys have replaced EC as currency for everything that is more expensive than 750m EC. You could try to sell a rare ship for 1000 master keys if you wanted but you would have a very hard time finding someone who takes your offer.
And his example has nothing to do with reality. If a country needs to reform its currency (because a severe devaluation has taken place), it won't cut prices first and savings, salaries and accounts afterwards. It will announce the new currency, set a fixed exchange rate (old/new) and convert all accounts, paychecks and taxes into the new currency. And there would be no riot, because you would have to work just as long for a steak then as you had to before.
You're assuming that the average person would care that things are the same. The only thing they will see is that their paycheck got cut by 90% and they lost 90% of their wealth.
If you got used to getting a paycheck for $1000, you would be absolutely livid when it suddenly got cut to $100, I don't care who you are. It doesn't matter that everything else got cut as well.
Also, look at basic psychology. Someone is more likely to purchase an item for 10 million EC than for 100 million, even if it is technically the same price. The impression is that it's a discount. It's the same reason why people won't buy an item priced at $100 regularly, but WILL buy that item if it's $100 marked down from $130.
That's the point. Their wealth, wages, taxes and bills would be exactly the same. It's like you would convert all your wealth from US Dollars into British pounds. The numbers on your bills and checks would change but you would still be just as wealthy (or poor) as before.
The psychological effect of large numbers is very short dated. As soon as people get used to the new currency it won't have any effect anymore. Surely you have traveled to a foreign country where you had to pay with very large bills. How long till you got used to the large sums?
Technically speaking, yes everything would be the same, but perception is reality. That perception being that you spent all that time gaining, saving, and scrimping, for nothing. It would be like you saving up to buy a 1963 Corvette Stingray Split-Window Coupe, spending the money, time, and effort to restore it to mint condition, then have someone take it away and give you a two-year-old Honda Accord as a replacement. In your mind, that effort would have be wasted.
Now, even the devaluation can backfire spectacularly. Sellers who were used to selling and gaining EC/keys/etc would be less likely to do so because it's less profitable for them, in their minds. The Exchange would dry up in no time, and do you know what the first thing that will stop selling in the exchange is? Keys. Why? Tell me that Cryptic would be willing to lower their C-store prices accordingly and the amount they charge to buy Zen, and I will laugh in your face.
Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
Nothing keeps players from asking for highly inflated prices right now.
Devil's advocate - nothing would keep them from asking highly inflated prices after decimation either. Were an item selling for 100 million EC prior to decimation, you would still have people asking for 100 million afterward.
This is what I've been trying to beat into their heads.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Comments
and again what does that change? Not a goddamn thing! How many times must I explain this for you to get it. You can drop the market and our currency down 1 decimal. It does not stop people from pulling down their items, and putting them right back up for that same amount you just dropped it down 1 decimal.
All it does then is make it that much harder to get said item. You've fixed nothing except have a nice feel good job done.
YOU'RE NOT SOLVING ANYTHING. Catch a clue.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
No matter, since these conversations/discussions are academic, I see no point in trying to explain my views further.
Enjoy your discussion. Good day.
I'm with you. Most who agree with the OP seem to think that we just drop one decimal and everyone will stay at that. They don't seem to comprehend this is a PLAYER DRIVEN economy. Where you can drop down 1 decimal and it really won't make much of a difference.
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I'm just going to agree to disagree on thinking this will change anything except make it harder when people jack up the prices. won't solve anything. but you can keep thinking it will.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I'm not sure if you're just trying to be difficult or if you actually believe what you're stating.
Semantics aside, neither 'decimation' nor increasing the credit cap (both of which would have the same overall effect) would address the issue of nothing to spend the credits on, outside of the exchange** to keep the economy in proper balance.
There needs to be more expensive 'shinies' to buy (from vendors) with credits.
**Which would not remove the credits from the game, just redistribute them to another player.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Be that as it may, think about it in terms of the economy of whatever country you currently live in.
If the federal government came in and said "We're going to cut the prices of all goods and services to 10% of their current value," everyone would cheer.
Follow that up with "We're also going to cut everyone's wealth, paychecks, and all sources of savings, investments, and income to 10% of their current value," and you'd have a nationwide riot on your hands.
It does not matter that the system would not change at all and that everything would be the same relative price. In fact, economists would laugh at it, as it's just a lot of work to keep us at the same relative level.
It does precisely jack all to alleviate the issue, and in fact, it creates more issues, as there is precisely nothing stopping a seller from raising the prices to higher than before.
In the end, the only net gain you get is more highly inflated prices for objects compared to their value.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
Now this man understands.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
No, I'm afraid he does not. Nothing keeps players from asking for highly inflated prices right now. In case you don't know, master keys have replaced EC as currency for everything that is more expensive than 750m EC. You could try to sell a rare ship for 1000 master keys if you wanted but you would have a very hard time finding someone who takes your offer.
And his example has nothing to do with reality. If a country needs to reform its currency (because a severe devaluation has taken place), it won't cut prices first and savings, salaries and accounts afterwards. It will announce the new currency, set a fixed exchange rate (old/new) and convert all accounts, paychecks and taxes into the new currency. And there would be no riot, because you would have to work just as long for a steak then as you had to before.
USS Sharlin NCC79713 B (part of sheridans access code) - T6, Hestia Class Advanced Escort
USS Babylon IV - T6 Krenim Science Vessel
USS Brakiri - T6 Elachi Escort
"We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light."
– Grey Council greeting
Would have no impact as people dont sell 'high value' stuff on the exchange and would just move goods into direct trade channels. Trading through barter by paying in keys wouldnt even cost much at all either if the tax was also applied to direct trades as keys have little to no value in the games engine.
Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
And absolutely nobody would buy it because neither supply nor demand would change after a decimation. It's a central feature of market economy that you can't sell items for whatever price you want. Not even a monopoly can ask for infinetly high prices. As a seller you need to find an equilibrium price at which you are still willing to sell, and somebody else is willing to buy.
You're assuming that the average person would care that things are the same. The only thing they will see is that their paycheck got cut by 90% and they lost 90% of their wealth.
If you got used to getting a paycheck for $1000, you would be absolutely livid when it suddenly got cut to $100, I don't care who you are. It doesn't matter that everything else got cut as well.
Also, look at basic psychology. Someone is more likely to purchase an item for 10 million EC than for 100 million, even if it is technically the same price. The impression is that it's a discount. It's the same reason why people won't buy an item priced at $100 regularly, but WILL buy that item if it's $100 marked down from $130.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
the sale price is set by the player and not the value of the item itself, they would be charged an extra 1% or a tax value set by cryptic.
USS Sharlin NCC79713 B (part of sheridans access code) - T6, Hestia Class Advanced Escort
USS Babylon IV - T6 Krenim Science Vessel
USS Brakiri - T6 Elachi Escort
"We are Grey. We stand between the darkness and the light."
– Grey Council greeting
That's the point. Their wealth, wages, taxes and bills would be exactly the same. It's like you would convert all your wealth from US Dollars into British pounds. The numbers on your bills and checks would change but you would still be just as wealthy (or poor) as before.
The psychological effect of large numbers is very short dated. As soon as people get used to the new currency it won't have any effect anymore. Surely you have traveled to a foreign country where you had to pay with very large bills. How long till you got used to the large sums?
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Technically speaking, yes everything would be the same, but perception is reality. That perception being that you spent all that time gaining, saving, and scrimping, for nothing. It would be like you saving up to buy a 1963 Corvette Stingray Split-Window Coupe, spending the money, time, and effort to restore it to mint condition, then have someone take it away and give you a two-year-old Honda Accord as a replacement. In your mind, that effort would have be wasted.
Now, even the devaluation can backfire spectacularly. Sellers who were used to selling and gaining EC/keys/etc would be less likely to do so because it's less profitable for them, in their minds. The Exchange would dry up in no time, and do you know what the first thing that will stop selling in the exchange is? Keys. Why? Tell me that Cryptic would be willing to lower their C-store prices accordingly and the amount they charge to buy Zen, and I will laugh in your face.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
This is what I've been trying to beat into their heads.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1