One of the things I'm hoping they balance are the embassy consoles. The hull/shield repair variants are vastly under powered compared to the plasma variants because of the 10 sec global cooldown on the hull/shield ones.
Or, the plasma ones are vastly overpowered compared to their counterparts Perhaps reduce the shield penetration on the explosions to 50% or less, reduce the base value by some large margin and add crits, reduce the base value but allow them to be affected by exotics, or some combination of the above. In addition, of course, to bringing the healing consoles up in effectiveness to fit with all the new lukari-era regen themed stuff, allowing a ship to specialize in outlasting damage either by dint of armor or regen.
The effect of embassy plasma consoles was only ever supposed to be a nice little extra perk, kinda like entropic rider, instead becoming a major if not the largest component in some people's builds. If we recall, their original iteration was basically just 'slot this console to add the plasma proc to otherwise non plasma weapons'...except that the DoTs could stack and be doped in ways the standard plasma effect could not. Heck, there's still (at least) one way left to dope explosions in their current form, even after all the balance passes and bug fixes on them...maybe just revert them to the original intent and limit it to 1 or 2 consoles that can provide their effect. Or make them like the other embassy consoles are now, in that each console has an individual or they collectively have a minimum c/d, the possibilities are endless.
I'm all for a 10 second cooldown per console across the board. The 10 second global cooldown on the non-plasma embassy consoles is stupid imo and should be per console. The plasma consoles not having a cooldown is dumb as well, but on the other end of the extreme.
-Vulnerability Locator console effects no longer stack
-AP weapons no longer grant +20 Critical Severity
And watch from afar as madness and chaos take over the forums, reddit, facebook and twitter.
And
-Herald Transphasic Torpedo can now be upgraded
too, pretty, please.
For AP weapons not having an inherent CrtD mod, might I point to pretty much any non-standard variant of AP? There are a lot of ways now to get AP with a proc rather than an extra mod, [CrtD] vs [Dmg] has changed, etc. I'm for letting standard AP keep their boring lack of a proc
Ship specific stuff does need to be available for upgrades, I'll agree.
I feel pretty much every damage buff (whether it's sci, tac or even eng powers) needs to be nerfed into the ground.
For example - instead of something giving a 10% increase in damage, it should be reduced to 1%-2%. That should seriously decrease the damage we're doing.
Tac powers need to stop buffing Sci or Eng abilities. FBP needs to not return more damage than received (especially since there's 50% shield pen).
"Universal" consoles need to get their own slot or something. Any way limiting how many you can take.
Embassy consoles also need a massive nerf into the ground. I can't remember the figures, but for a 75K player, can't they do something like 10k?
Oh, more than that...15k+, and as much again in fbp damage even on a non-tac.
-Vulnerability Locator console effects no longer stack
-AP weapons no longer grant +20 Critical Severity
Except quite a few high end DPS builds are currently running 1-2 Tac Consoles (dat flagship set on the Sci Oddy/ Sci Scimi is powerful enough that it's often worth slotting over Tac consoles if Eng console slots are full).
Also, AP hasn't been the DPS meta for over a year. Coalition Dirsuptors + Terran Disruptors have been the DPS meta for the last year or so. Very powerful in a team environment.
Not everybody plays Star Tac Online. It would be nice if for once the other 2 classes were not nerfed because Tac is imbalanced due to APA etc buffing all forms of damage. Leave Embassy consoles alone and nerf APA to only buff weapons. Tacs will get pegged back, Eng and Sci who are vastly inferior for DPS but close to each other in numbers are unaffected. Parity wont be achieved with this change nor should it be but things should be a little more even with such a simple change.
1: AP innate CrtD is fine, they just need to make the other procs not suck or completely be niche. The Phaser Proc is useless in PvE, Tetryon is fine some times, Plasma is meh (and more or less obsolete except for maybe Corrosive), and Polaron is ok if you run drainX or drain boats, Disruptor has the best proc hands down and it's made better with the coalition disruptor.
2: Stacking of consoles and stats are fine, they just need to increase diminishing returns. If you stop the stacking of Locators for example, Romulans gain an even larger advantage as they can slot SRO in every Bridge Seat. Embassy Consoles should be limited to 1 only for the plasma proc or institute a 10-15 sec lock out.
3. Reputation/Lobi Universal Consoles should be limited to 3 maybe 4 and then code console slots to except uni/eng or uni/sci like how boff seating works.
4. Engineer BoFF abilities not APtX or EPtX really need help, they are either a half assed science or tac ability that serve no good because they are only able to be slotted on space whales. Cruisers in most cases lack the maneuverability or console layout to really boost them to acceptable damage levels.
Looks like the first changes are coming to Tribble soon.
The general cooldown on recharge time so player can only use less.
On ground seems tac skill security escort and tac initiative, for sci and eng toon those skill they cant use. Stealth Module?(Is it a tac skill) Eng skill buff or heal fabrication. I did not see any sci changes so far.
Space mainly typo correction so far.
It is a nerf to balance, hope it works well for all.
I eagerly await it as much as I fear it. When I see Unimatrixes get down from ~55% hull to zero in one second; whole battlegroups of BZ ships eaten up in an anomaly +whatever in 2 seconds its clear something has to be done one way or another.
I just hope they take a looooong time to keep it on tribble and do what they appear to usually don't: READ & ACT UPON THE FRIGGIN FEEDBACK!
First round goes to ground combat? oO
err... what? Not enough "I hate ground combat in STO" threads lately?
The idiots suggesting they nerf antiproton, CrtD and tactical consoles really need to grow some new brain cells.
1. Antiproton has been out of fashion for close to a year and even before it was only like 2% better then any other damage type.
2. CrtD is also out of fashion, now it's all about DMG. I don't even know what you mean by nerf it, it's just a standard game mechanic everyone uses. If you meant that you think the mod itself grants too much bonus and is overpowered... Your still wrong but look slightly less stupid.
3. The current record setting builds rarely use more then one or two tactical consoles. The game is so oversaturated with damage buffs that they only provide tiny bonusses.
Oh well, simple minds think of simple solutions when the reality is far more complicated.
I'm looking forward to these balance changes. I really enjoy building ships, if this means another method to building my ships would be made more viable or useful, then I'm all for figuring/exploring those options.
Though right now, the absolute best min-max combo is Terran + 1 Herald + 1 Delphic + 6 Coalitions with +Beam consoles.
and just what ship are you flying to be able to run that weapons setup, exactly? last i checked, the maximum amount of weapon slots a ship can have is 8, not 9
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
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Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
The difference between AP and other damage types is only a few percent (something like 2-3%), def not 15%. Any damage type can do well if you pilot the ship right and hit abilities in the right spots. I'd recommend looking around over on /r/stobuilds/ at some of the math posts, cause wherever you got a 15% difference from, is quite a bit off.
Coalition Disruptors + Terran Rep Beam have been outperforming AP in solo environments for us for quite some time.
Though right now, the absolute best min-max combo is Terran + 1 Herald + 1 Delphic + 5 Coalitions with +Beam consoles. If the Herald and Delhpic proc in a run, you'll see it on the parse. On my Rom with those and my [Dmg]x4 Coalitions, I'm pugging upwards of 300k with upwards of 60% Crit Chance.
Looking forward to the things like FBP and Embassy consoles being hit so we can see some more build diversity.
Though right now, the absolute best min-max combo is Terran + 1 Herald + 1 Delphic + 6 Coalitions with +Beam consoles.
and just what ship are you flying to be able to run that weapons setup, exactly? last i checked, the maximum amount of weapon slots a ship can have is 8, not 9
Sorry, meant 5 Coals, typically running the Imperium, D7, Sci Scimi, or Sci Oddy.
Tis what I get for typing at 3am. Tired enough that I went to edit it and deleted the post, need more coffee.
I am with seaofsorrows... I remember the times in the past where "balance passes" have been made... It's never pretty...
Never? That Season 1.2 or Season 2 (I don't remember which it was exacly anymore) was wonderful. It turned a lot of TRIBBLE powers into useful staple powers, and fixed glaring imbalanced stuff. It wasn't perfect, but the game was considerably improved afterwards and we still reap the benefits of those changes today.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I am with seaofsorrows... I remember the times in the past where "balance passes" have been made... It's never pretty...
Never? That Season 1.2 or Season 2 (I don't remember which it was exacly anymore) was wonderful. It turned a lot of **** powers into useful staple powers, and fixed glaring imbalanced stuff. It wasn't perfect, but the game was considerably improved afterwards and we still reap the benefits of those changes today.
Oh god yeah, I remember that.
Speaking of the old days, I still get PTSD over that Viral Matrix + Subnucleonic Beam combo. I still remember Bird of Prey's decloaking and using it to totally disable me. Thank god they rebalanced that.
The idiots suggesting they nerf antiproton, CrtD and tactical consoles really need to grow some new brain cells.
1. Antiproton has been out of fashion for close to a year and even before it was only like 2% better then any other damage type.
2. CrtD is also out of fashion, now it's all about DMG. I don't even know what you mean by nerf it, it's just a standard game mechanic everyone uses. If you meant that you think the mod itself grants too much bonus and is overpowered... Your still wrong but look slightly less stupid.
3. The current record setting builds rarely use more then one or two tactical consoles. The game is so oversaturated with damage buffs that they only provide tiny bonusses.
Oh well, simple minds think of simple solutions when the reality is far more complicated.
Oh look...somebody who doesn't understand DPS spewing the same defense. AP is more than 2% better depending on your crtH and depending on which mod you rate it. AP is best if you have high crit chances and lots of crtD. For instance, my rommie toon crits like 40% of the time. With a crtdx3 AP weapon, that is a 15% better output in damage vs if i went with a phaser dmgx3 weapon. That is not a small deal. Now of course the new hotness is coalition disruptors...and those solo will not net you very much DPS...but a team with 5 of those sets going off? Yeah that makes damage do stupid things. The thing about space is...it's a LOT of things that interacts with each other. So rarely is the answer on what should and should not be nerfed very easy to figure out.
What I would do if I wanted a quick balance pass is the following. Make all AoE tact skills start at Lt (so CVS, TS and BFaW). Make all the single target ones start at ensign. Make none of the same skill bonus from consoles stack. So only the highest drainX from all you consoles applies. Make only one of the % to damage type apply from console...once again the highest. Make only the highest crit % and crit damage % apply from the console. Make only one exploder apply. Basically make only the higest apply of a bonus applies from console...none of them stack anymore. Make APA only apply to weapons. There quick easy balance pass.
Now if we wanted to do something a bit different...we can let the single and AoE effects stack up by having them not share cooldowns. So if you use CSV and CRF, the CSV does more damage. Do a HY TS and your TS lauches a spread of heavy torps. Activate BFAW and BO...your BFAW fires slower but shoots auto critting shots while BFAW is active. This will take some of the sting out of taking away some of the damage from tact consoles...while rewarding more precise timing play. For the sci side, they should have tykens and GW run seperately and have it make a super GW that drains shields and energy when both are placed near each other with the super GW benefiting from anything that boost either the tyken or GW. Have EptX be all seperate and have it so having have two or more up gives bonuses. So each one will have a bonus that it gives if you have at least two going. So EptW will add a point defense with a range of 3 km. Shields gives shield leech. Engine gives you a plasma wake that does DoT. Aux gives you electric damage per shot. So you activate all 4, you get all 4 bonus. Use weapon and aux, you get the point defense and electric damage. Just some ideas anyways to make up for the nerfs.
Instituting Diminishing returns at a lower level would serve the same purpose not to mention not make the other base stats on weapons not suck. Accuracy and CrtH are more or less terrible mods, not to mention only one crated mod is desired, the rest are garbage. Rather than nerf AP or w/e all to hell they could also tie the other weapon type procs to accuracy or crit chance like they did with Polaron and Tetryon and DrainX.
Elmer Gantry is alive and well on the Forums. Hallelujah!!!!
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The supreme directive rule is "Never Nerf Anything," but if they are going to behave sinfully and nerf things, it is best if it is sci/eng stuff.
This is a stupid rule that doesn't make any sense at all, and not just in MMOs either.
If you have a gun in a game like Call of Duty, and that gun does so much damage it basically kills everything in one hit, the logical and correct solution is to lower the damage to something more reasonable.
One cannot just "improve" everything else to even it out, thats just fixing the problem, that's just making everything else just as broken.
Look close, here is someone trying to deceive you by drawing a false conclusion using the twisted principle of false equivalency.
Anyone can tell you that it is fine to fix some grievous mistake or error, for example if the number is supposed to be 100.50 but you put 10050.
But this isnt the same as breaking the commandment against nerfing, Never Nerf Anything. People may like to use the same word both times, but when the law was laid down it did not contemplate simply fixing typos in the code.
So look people and be witnesses! The forces of sin will always try to lead you astray and they are clever at it! But do not be deceived!
Don't worry, no one allows him or herself to be deceived here.
Whatever one wishes to call it, corrections/nerfs are needed sometimes and 'never nerf anything' is therefore indeed a strange rule.
@somtaawkhar is therefore right. Never thought we would agree on something, this is quite a pleasant surprise
Regarding Cryptic's announcement about rebalancing and seeing all the nerf this, nerf that posts/threads popping up, the best advice I can give them is IGNORE the lot.
I'll leave this in the hands of the Dev team to address what needs rebalancing, rather than dozens of individual voices on the forums. It's Cryptic's game. i'll place my trust in them to make the right changes.
Reason example :
Player A. asking for a BFAW nerf may have played a STF with a high DPSER and couldn't keep pace so his option could be tainted by the fact this DPSER vaped everything and got him a AFK penalty, therefore his thinking is BFAW must be overpowered. Not that is a combination of multiple powers/traits/consoles/Doffs/piloting and timing.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
Other than the security escort, they sound like buffs.
We'll see what they do with space, the ground stuff is always pretty mild. My guess is that they're finally going to bend to those that cry about beam builds and fire at will. If so, fine.. it will just push something else to the top, we'll all adapt and they will cry about the new thing.
It's not the first time something like this has happened. Cryptic has been consistent in it's methodology over the years, 'balance changes' always just means blanket nerfs.
Call it "nerf" or call it "balance" but I for one welcome any nerf/balance that brings other builds (torp boats, cannon escorts, etc.) into a more balanced/consistent DPS with beam/FAW boats.
As it is today, I will "sometimes" switch to a build with torps, dual cannons, turrets, or whatever else, but I will ALWAYS end up coming back to a beam array/FAW build because that is what will "consistently" produce the highest DPS numbers for me.
That is BORING. I don't want my beam array/FAW builds to be worse than other builds, but FAW boats shouldn't ALWAYS beat other builds when you're trying to turn out the highest DPS numbers.
Whenever I get bored with this game I leave for a few months ... and that means PWE isn't making any money from me. If the devs can keep players like me from getting bored then STO makes more money and the game continues to thrive.
The trick is to find "balance" without making it feel like a totally lopsided nerf.
In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
Comments
I'm all for a 10 second cooldown per console across the board. The 10 second global cooldown on the non-plasma embassy consoles is stupid imo and should be per console. The plasma consoles not having a cooldown is dumb as well, but on the other end of the extreme.
For AP weapons not having an inherent CrtD mod, might I point to pretty much any non-standard variant of AP? There are a lot of ways now to get AP with a proc rather than an extra mod, [CrtD] vs [Dmg] has changed, etc. I'm for letting standard AP keep their boring lack of a proc
Ship specific stuff does need to be available for upgrades, I'll agree.
Oh, more than that...15k+, and as much again in fbp damage even on a non-tac.
Except quite a few high end DPS builds are currently running 1-2 Tac Consoles (dat flagship set on the Sci Oddy/ Sci Scimi is powerful enough that it's often worth slotting over Tac consoles if Eng console slots are full).
Also, AP hasn't been the DPS meta for over a year. Coalition Dirsuptors + Terran Disruptors have been the DPS meta for the last year or so. Very powerful in a team environment.
1: AP innate CrtD is fine, they just need to make the other procs not suck or completely be niche. The Phaser Proc is useless in PvE, Tetryon is fine some times, Plasma is meh (and more or less obsolete except for maybe Corrosive), and Polaron is ok if you run drainX or drain boats, Disruptor has the best proc hands down and it's made better with the coalition disruptor.
2: Stacking of consoles and stats are fine, they just need to increase diminishing returns. If you stop the stacking of Locators for example, Romulans gain an even larger advantage as they can slot SRO in every Bridge Seat. Embassy Consoles should be limited to 1 only for the plasma proc or institute a 10-15 sec lock out.
3. Reputation/Lobi Universal Consoles should be limited to 3 maybe 4 and then code console slots to except uni/eng or uni/sci like how boff seating works.
4. Engineer BoFF abilities not APtX or EPtX really need help, they are either a half assed science or tac ability that serve no good because they are only able to be slotted on space whales. Cruisers in most cases lack the maneuverability or console layout to really boost them to acceptable damage levels.
The general cooldown on recharge time so player can only use less.
On ground seems tac skill security escort and tac initiative, for sci and eng toon those skill they cant use. Stealth Module?(Is it a tac skill) Eng skill buff or heal fabrication. I did not see any sci changes so far.
Space mainly typo correction so far.
It is a nerf to balance, hope it works well for all.
I just hope they take a looooong time to keep it on tribble and do what they appear to usually don't: READ & ACT UPON THE FRIGGIN FEEDBACK!
First round goes to ground combat? oO
err... what? Not enough "I hate ground combat in STO" threads lately?
1. Antiproton has been out of fashion for close to a year and even before it was only like 2% better then any other damage type.
2. CrtD is also out of fashion, now it's all about DMG. I don't even know what you mean by nerf it, it's just a standard game mechanic everyone uses. If you meant that you think the mod itself grants too much bonus and is overpowered... Your still wrong but look slightly less stupid.
3. The current record setting builds rarely use more then one or two tactical consoles. The game is so oversaturated with damage buffs that they only provide tiny bonusses.
Oh well, simple minds think of simple solutions when the reality is far more complicated.
The weeks ahead will be really interesting!
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
and just what ship are you flying to be able to run that weapons setup, exactly? last i checked, the maximum amount of weapon slots a ship can have is 8, not 9
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Coalition Disruptors + Terran Rep Beam have been outperforming AP in solo environments for us for quite some time.
Though right now, the absolute best min-max combo is Terran + 1 Herald + 1 Delphic + 5 Coalitions with +Beam consoles. If the Herald and Delhpic proc in a run, you'll see it on the parse. On my Rom with those and my [Dmg]x4 Coalitions, I'm pugging upwards of 300k with upwards of 60% Crit Chance.
Looking forward to the things like FBP and Embassy consoles being hit so we can see some more build diversity.
Sorry, meant 5 Coals, typically running the Imperium, D7, Sci Scimi, or Sci Oddy.
Tis what I get for typing at 3am. Tired enough that I went to edit it and deleted the post, need more coffee.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Never? That Season 1.2 or Season 2 (I don't remember which it was exacly anymore) was wonderful. It turned a lot of TRIBBLE powers into useful staple powers, and fixed glaring imbalanced stuff. It wasn't perfect, but the game was considerably improved afterwards and we still reap the benefits of those changes today.
Oh god yeah, I remember that.
Speaking of the old days, I still get PTSD over that Viral Matrix + Subnucleonic Beam combo. I still remember Bird of Prey's decloaking and using it to totally disable me. Thank god they rebalanced that.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Instituting Diminishing returns at a lower level would serve the same purpose not to mention not make the other base stats on weapons not suck. Accuracy and CrtH are more or less terrible mods, not to mention only one crated mod is desired, the rest are garbage. Rather than nerf AP or w/e all to hell they could also tie the other weapon type procs to accuracy or crit chance like they did with Polaron and Tetryon and DrainX.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Don't worry, no one allows him or herself to be deceived here.
Whatever one wishes to call it, corrections/nerfs are needed sometimes and 'never nerf anything' is therefore indeed a strange rule.
@somtaawkhar is therefore right. Never thought we would agree on something, this is quite a pleasant surprise
I'll leave this in the hands of the Dev team to address what needs rebalancing, rather than dozens of individual voices on the forums. It's Cryptic's game. i'll place my trust in them to make the right changes.
Reason example :
Player A. asking for a BFAW nerf may have played a STF with a high DPSER and couldn't keep pace so his option could be tainted by the fact this DPSER vaped everything and got him a AFK penalty, therefore his thinking is BFAW must be overpowered. Not that is a combination of multiple powers/traits/consoles/Doffs/piloting and timing.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
Call it "nerf" or call it "balance" but I for one welcome any nerf/balance that brings other builds (torp boats, cannon escorts, etc.) into a more balanced/consistent DPS with beam/FAW boats.
As it is today, I will "sometimes" switch to a build with torps, dual cannons, turrets, or whatever else, but I will ALWAYS end up coming back to a beam array/FAW build because that is what will "consistently" produce the highest DPS numbers for me.
That is BORING. I don't want my beam array/FAW builds to be worse than other builds, but FAW boats shouldn't ALWAYS beat other builds when you're trying to turn out the highest DPS numbers.
Whenever I get bored with this game I leave for a few months ... and that means PWE isn't making any money from me. If the devs can keep players like me from getting bored then STO makes more money and the game continues to thrive.
The trick is to find "balance" without making it feel like a totally lopsided nerf.
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.