Wasn't arguing. Just trying to figure out why you placed the issue with the Breen that you did. Don't care one way or the other, but STO did use them as a larger faction than the actual star trek official lines do. as for the map... that's just technicalities, I guess. *shrug*.
and I'm not a kid. If I was error, then I was in error. not the first time. I'm human after all. Mostly...
I am going to take this really slowly, just for you, alright?
On the STO galaxy map
There is a smaller, circular, minimap of the whole galaxy in the upper left hand corner
On this smaller minimap, it shows the alpha quadrant to be 6 sectors by 4 sectors
If you look on the actual galaxy map, you will note that the alpha quadrant is only 5 sectors by 4 sectors
This is an art error
This art error has been around since they redid the galaxy map art
I was asking Tacofangs if this art error could be fixed in some future update
Do you understand now? Or do I need to break it down more?
So where do the Breen fit in? That was the question you were just asked. I ask only because you chose double down on adversarial when conciliatory was called for. (calm down and stick to a point. The "just for you" elaborations get you nowhere.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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The Breen don't fit in, which is why I separated my map comment by like 4 spaces, and wrote "100% unrelated to that", that being the Breen stuff I was talking about in the previous paragraph, at the very start of the paragraph talking about the map.
You omitted the following exchange (which incidentally was the first part of the post you just quoted from. I think the misunderstanding about sector space map tweaks was secondary):
Breen was the most prominent system in that sector. (...) You(not you personally, but Cryptic) named the sector for a system that wasn't there, put a system where it isn't based on the very maps you used to make the game, and made that planet and system art despite not having any content for it, not to mention the Breen aren't even THAT important of a race in the grand scheme of Star Trek, yet couldn't do it for planets that were(like Organia)?
I have to say something to this. First, the original maps for the game weren't created by Cryptic, but another company. Cryptic updated the maps to their current form. Second, your argument about the Breen is irrelevant. The Breen played a major role in an earlier STO storyline and anything dealing with the Cannon of Star Trek you can toss right in that trash bin over there, because it serves no purpose when dealing with this game. (yes, I know I've discussed similar things, but always with the fact that STO and Star Trek Cannon are NOT the same thing.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I have to say something to this. First, the original maps for the game weren't created by Cryptic, but another company. Cryptic updated the maps to their current form. Second, your argument about the Breen is irrelevant. The Breen played a major role in an earlier STO storyline and anything dealing with the Cannon of Star Trek you can toss right in that trash bin over there, because it serves no purpose when dealing with this game. (yes, I know I've discussed similar things, but always with the fact that STO and Star Trek Cannon are NOT the same thing.)
Read the post, the whole post, and nothing but the post, before you reply next time. Might save yourself some of the apparent confusion you seem to be having with blending various separate points into one point when they are not.
Pointing out a typo isn't equivalent to answering a question. In fact it seems like a deliberate evasion. Let me state the question very succinctly so we don't get off topic again. Answer it as simply and directly as possible.
What issue do you have with the Breen's System being included in the sector block?
The reasons you gave in your original comment (and subsequent replies) were found wanting.
Which again, has nothing to do with what I said, as they were able to expand out to the Breen homeworld, which serves no purpose in the game, and was never seen in lore, but they couldn't expand to places actually seen like Talos and the Talarians for reasons unexplained. Please, stop responding to my posts if you aren't going to directly contribute to the things I bring up.
BTW, this isn't a question of art errors, it's content inclusion (ie. that Cryptic shouldn't have made this specific choice in preference for systems which you personally feel are more important to the STO setting, or at least that this "irrelevant" System suggests that Cryptic erred in not taking it one or two steps further). The art errors was only a tangent and its not one which has any bearing on this conversation I'm having with you now. As you said, it's 100% unrelated.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I am going to take this really slowly, just for you, alright?
On the STO galaxy map
There is a smaller, circular, minimap of the whole galaxy in the upper left hand corner
On this smaller minimap, it shows the alpha quadrant to be 6 sectors by 4 sectors
If you look on the actual galaxy map, you will note that the alpha quadrant is only 5 sectors by 4 sectors
This is an art error
This art error has been around since they redid the galaxy map art
I was asking Tacofangs if this art error could be fixed in some future update
Do you understand now? Or do I need to break it down more?
got it.
part of my misunderstanding was that I thought you were discussing the location in Alpha zone, even though I did read what you posted, that is what I understood. not a big deal.
But yes, I was asking about the Breen more so than the map.
The issue is that it doesn't belong there, and it being there when it has no in-game use is directly contradictory to Taco's statements of not building systems, like Organia, when they serve no narrative purpose, regardless of if they are important or not.
As was pointed out to you, the Breen system DOES serve a narrative purpose because (and this is just me talking, Taco gave you a reply as well) UNLIKE Organia the Breen homeworld factors directly into the STO setting. It is the homeworld of an included faction. The Organians may be part of the franchise's background but they are not an equivalent example to a species who has their own arc in the game.
That's not to say it would be wrong to include Organia, but it does mean that one can easily disagree with this specific point of yours (ie. that there's contradiction at work.)
(and to Taco's comment, it's worth nothing that Organia would probably fall in the Donatu Sector. Talos likewise (or the Aldebaran sector). The Breen/Tellar/Trill/Ferenginar situation does not arise, ergo no extra system.)
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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Somehow reading the latter part of this Thread reminded me of 'Dueling Banjos', except there was no part where all were together, just the dueling part.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
SANDBOX. There needs to be some sandbox elements added to STO and it's long overdo. Missions to places like Batezed or other places that pop up. A return to a revamed exploration(before we all come out with pitchforks let me explain!)
Where we could put in new starbases, or make first contact with a warp capable race, then we have the whole chain of missions where we establish trade, if we do well then we go farther, and you could even be the reason a new civilization becomes part of the Federation.
Or realizing we need a new starbase and you go about setting one up. Gathering the resources, setting up the base, possibly defending it against raiders/pirates, all sorts of sand box things to do.
And STO is really lacking in things to do besides "replay old episodes, do events and generally fly around in shinies".
Time to expand our universe and really do all the things Starfleet is there for besides, go here, blow stuff up and follow a very directed story line.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
To Tacofangs, one thing that a revamped DS9, maybe other stations too, could get is a working turbolift like in the Tal Shiar base on Nimbus 3.
that's NOT a working turbo lift! You stand on the platform, then the MAP moves up to simulate the lift going down. Totally unsuitable for a social zone.
To Tacofangs, one thing that a revamped DS9, maybe other stations too, could get is a working turbolift like in the Tal Shiar base on Nimbus 3.
that's NOT a working turbo lift! You stand on the platform, then the MAP moves up to simulate the lift going down. Totally unsuitable for a social zone.
well, fooie! Thought there was something I hadn't seen in the game.
I'd love to see stuff happening on the Federation's founding worlds (especially Andoria, speaking purely from personal prejudice.)
There are locations KDF-side that could be used, too. Ter'jas Mor sounds like a fun place to visit.
I wouldn't mind seeing the return of a ground map we used to have - Memory Alpha. There have got to be some stories you could tell about the Federation's premier research institute. For that matter, we don't see nearly enough of the Utopia Planitia yards. Or, since we've got the location in sector space, how about Babel? All of these would seem to have possibilities.
To Tacofangs, one thing that a revamped DS9, maybe other stations too, could get is a working turbolift like in the Tal Shiar base on Nimbus 3.
that's NOT a working turbo lift! You stand on the platform, then the MAP moves up to simulate the lift going down. Totally unsuitable for a social zone.
A real elevator would be totally unsuitable for a social zone even as a concept. We would drown in whine when the first trolls discovered they could stand in the doorway to stop it from moving.
the Metrons fake planet show up in the AOY episode but how about in the future? for that matter, how about the amusement planet, the gangster planet and the eminiar star cluster?
the Metrons fake planet show up in the AOY episode but how about in the future? for that matter, how about the amusement planet, the gangster planet and the eminiar star cluster?
I did make some posts about Metrons, one where the last of the species is dying and offers a bit of ancient equipment, about one being at Iconia in "Midnight", and at "Shadows of Cestus" where a Romulan fleet could show up, only to have a Metron one-shot them.
Breen was the most prominent system in that sector. (...) You(not you personally, but Cryptic) named the sector for a system that wasn't there, put a system where it isn't based on the very maps you used to make the game, and made that planet and system art despite not having any content for it, not to mention the Breen aren't even THAT important of a race in the grand scheme of Star Trek, yet couldn't do it for planets that were(like Organia)?
I have to say something to this. First, the original maps for the game weren't created by Cryptic, but another company. Cryptic updated the maps to their current form. Second, your argument about the Breen is irrelevant. The Breen played a major role in an earlier STO storyline and anything dealing with the Cannon of Star Trek you can toss right in that trash bin over there, because it serves no purpose when dealing with this game. (yes, I know I've discussed similar things, but always with the fact that STO and Star Trek Cannon are NOT the same thing.)
Huh? We made all of the sector maps in game. We've based placement of systems off of the Star Trek Star Charts book, but all of the work and assets are our own.
I have to say something to this. First, the original maps for the game weren't created by Cryptic, but another company. Cryptic updated the maps to their current form. Second, your argument about the Breen is irrelevant. The Breen played a major role in an earlier STO storyline and anything dealing with the Cannon of Star Trek you can toss right in that trash bin over there, because it serves no purpose when dealing with this game. (yes, I know I've discussed similar things, but always with the fact that STO and Star Trek Cannon are NOT the same thing.)
Huh? We made all of the sector maps in game. We've based placement of systems off of the Star Trek Star Charts book, but all of the work and assets are our own.
not sure, but isn't what you just quoted me on the same thing as what you just posted? I reread it, but am thinking it says the same thing, basically. (?)
I have to say something to this. First, the original maps for the game weren't created by Cryptic, but another company. Cryptic updated the maps to their current form. Second, your argument about the Breen is irrelevant. The Breen played a major role in an earlier STO storyline and anything dealing with the Cannon of Star Trek you can toss right in that trash bin over there, because it serves no purpose when dealing with this game. (yes, I know I've discussed similar things, but always with the fact that STO and Star Trek Cannon are NOT the same thing.)
Huh? We made all of the sector maps in game. We've based placement of systems off of the Star Trek Star Charts book, but all of the work and assets are our own.
not sure, but isn't what you just quoted me on the same thing as what you just posted? I reread it, but am thinking it says the same thing, basically. (?)
Uh. . . I guess? If you have a very liberal interpretation of those words.
We used the 2d, paper maps (only as a reference) from a book, compiled by a guy (Geoffrey Mandel), not a company.
The way you phrased it sounded like the actual maps you fly around in, in game, had been completely built and created by another company (like Perpetual or someone?).
Comments
To be clear, here are as many of the maps as I could quickly plug here. (I'm uncomfortable putting this many images in a single post, so be specific.)
There are others that go into more detail with small areas, but I'm leaving it to the most relevant maps.
This is the current map:
Here are several of the older maps from STO:
Edit: (I removed these because I didn't like the number of them I put here.)
Other Star Trek Maps (not STO):
edit: (same reason)
And of course, the maps everyone keeps calling the official Star Trek maps, even though they are not:
edit: (and so on)
Wasn't arguing. Just trying to figure out why you placed the issue with the Breen that you did. Don't care one way or the other, but STO did use them as a larger faction than the actual star trek official lines do. as for the map... that's just technicalities, I guess. *shrug*.
and I'm not a kid. If I was error, then I was in error. not the first time. I'm human after all. Mostly...
So where do the Breen fit in? That was the question you were just asked. I ask only because you chose double down on adversarial when conciliatory was called for.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
You omitted the following exchange (which incidentally was the first part of the post you just quoted from. I think the misunderstanding about sector space map tweaks was secondary):
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Pointing out a typo isn't equivalent to answering a question. In fact it seems like a deliberate evasion. Let me state the question very succinctly so we don't get off topic again. Answer it as simply and directly as possible.
What issue do you have with the Breen's System being included in the sector block?
The reasons you gave in your original comment (and subsequent replies) were found wanting.
BTW, this isn't a question of art errors, it's content inclusion (ie. that Cryptic shouldn't have made this specific choice in preference for systems which you personally feel are more important to the STO setting, or at least that this "irrelevant" System suggests that Cryptic erred in not taking it one or two steps further). The art errors was only a tangent and its not one which has any bearing on this conversation I'm having with you now. As you said, it's 100% unrelated.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
part of my misunderstanding was that I thought you were discussing the location in Alpha zone, even though I did read what you posted, that is what I understood. not a big deal.
But yes, I was asking about the Breen more so than the map.
As was pointed out to you, the Breen system DOES serve a narrative purpose because (and this is just me talking, Taco gave you a reply as well) UNLIKE Organia the Breen homeworld factors directly into the STO setting. It is the homeworld of an included faction. The Organians may be part of the franchise's background but they are not an equivalent example to a species who has their own arc in the game.
That's not to say it would be wrong to include Organia, but it does mean that one can easily disagree with this specific point of yours (ie. that there's contradiction at work.)
(and to Taco's comment, it's worth nothing that Organia would probably fall in the Donatu Sector. Talos likewise (or the Aldebaran sector). The Breen/Tellar/Trill/Ferenginar situation does not arise, ergo no extra system.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
SANDBOX. There needs to be some sandbox elements added to STO and it's long overdo. Missions to places like Batezed or other places that pop up. A return to a revamed exploration(before we all come out with pitchforks let me explain!)
Where we could put in new starbases, or make first contact with a warp capable race, then we have the whole chain of missions where we establish trade, if we do well then we go farther, and you could even be the reason a new civilization becomes part of the Federation.
Or realizing we need a new starbase and you go about setting one up. Gathering the resources, setting up the base, possibly defending it against raiders/pirates, all sorts of sand box things to do.
And STO is really lacking in things to do besides "replay old episodes, do events and generally fly around in shinies".
Time to expand our universe and really do all the things Starfleet is there for besides, go here, blow stuff up and follow a very directed story line.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
My character Tsin'xing
well, fooie! Thought there was something I hadn't seen in the game.
My character Tsin'xing
There are locations KDF-side that could be used, too. Ter'jas Mor sounds like a fun place to visit.
I wouldn't mind seeing the return of a ground map we used to have - Memory Alpha. There have got to be some stories you could tell about the Federation's premier research institute. For that matter, we don't see nearly enough of the Utopia Planitia yards. Or, since we've got the location in sector space, how about Babel? All of these would seem to have possibilities.
A real elevator would be totally unsuitable for a social zone even as a concept. We would drown in whine when the first trolls discovered they could stand in the doorway to stop it from moving.
My character Tsin'xing
I did make some posts about Metrons, one where the last of the species is dying and offers a bit of ancient equipment, about one being at Iconia in "Midnight", and at "Shadows of Cestus" where a Romulan fleet could show up, only to have a Metron one-shot them.
Huh? We made all of the sector maps in game. We've based placement of systems off of the Star Trek Star Charts book, but all of the work and assets are our own.
Hey, @tacofangs!
I agree. I just said it bass-ackwards...
not sure, but isn't what you just quoted me on the same thing as what you just posted? I reread it, but am thinking it says the same thing, basically. (?)
Uh. . . I guess? If you have a very liberal interpretation of those words.
We used the 2d, paper maps (only as a reference) from a book, compiled by a guy (Geoffrey Mandel), not a company.
The way you phrased it sounded like the actual maps you fly around in, in game, had been completely built and created by another company (like Perpetual or someone?).