Yes, but they only show up if the plot compels it.
I am honestly surprised the plot hasn't compelled us to visit the nexus energy ribbon, given that is supposed to be back in Federation/Romulan/Klingon space in 2410.
You mean go inside it? We've definitely seen it...
You mean go inside it? We've definitely seen it...
Is this some not so clever ruse about all the retcons Cryptic has made to the launch era storylines?
Go to any mission that uses the Azure Nebula as a space map(examples include Tholian red alerts and Temporal Ambassador). The Nexus Energy Ribbon is there in the back ground.
that's not the nexus, that just the inter dimensional rifts the Azure Nebula is known for having, which is why the Tholians use it as a means of transport.
I honestly don't understand where you got the idea that was the nexus from.
There's some visual similarities but I think it's just a matter of convergent evolution in designing a tear in the universe. This would also apply to the anomaly used to access the Elachi domain. It's also an "energy ribbon" but the effect, circumstance, and visual details are distinct from Generations.
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I was responding to the size of the map you were referring to. Moving the systems around, and even adding several allowed them to minimize the whole thing. Given, they didn't put everything, but some was added. They may add more later when they update the maps again.
so it was directly related to your post...
Which again, has nothing to do with what I said, as they were able to expand out to the Breen homeworld, which serves no purpose in the game, and was never seen in lore, but they couldn't expand to places actually seen like Talos and the Talarians for reasons unexplained. Please, stop responding to my posts if you aren't going to directly contribute to the things I bring up.
Also, as I recall, they already said they weren't going to expand the maps we currently have again. The game engine couldn't handle the Alpha and Beta quads being one map because it was too large, which is why they are still separate. Even if you only added one more sector all around the Beta Quad's three sides that aren't touching the Alpha Quad, thats basically the same amount of sectors the Alpha Quad has, which would make the map too large.
I thought they had said the current way the maps are handled can be expanded if they decide there's a need for it.
because it's a giant background object you can't interact with at all? Also....
If that's NOT meant to be the Nexus there's a HUGE coincidence....
Coincidence, I'd say. The nexus was always in motion (waving, sparking, and moving through space). In universe you could explain it as similar phenomena (tears in the universe) but "the nexus" is one with very peculiar properties from the standard variety you might see elsewhere (flip the colors around on the Son'a subspace weapon and I think you'd have a closer match to what's in the azure nebula. Ie. it's closer to your garden variety subspace rift)
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What would they do with the Nexus anyway? The time-travel aspect is redundant and the fantasy-world aspect is much more easily done with holodecks or mind melds.
Not to mention the only way you could reliably enter it safely is to blow up some stars.
If they REALLY want to expand the universe, they can always break up the map down to either sectors or as a per-system map. They can THEN add a whole lot of little extras (take your pick). It's the only way to really increase things in the game and the main way to by-pass the rendering problems encountered with the map mergers and too many details/objects.
However, this would take forever to go from one zone to another without using the Transwarp for everything.
But, then again, they could add randomize system encounters this way, and that was one of the things they pulled from the game due to probs with it shortly before the map merger (or was it right after?).
because it's a giant background object you can't interact with at all? Also....
If that's NOT meant to be the Nexus there's a HUGE coincidence....
Coincidence, I'd say. The nexus was always in motion (waving, sparking, and moving through space). In universe you could explain it as similar phenomena (tears in the universe) but "the nexus" is one with very peculiar properties from the standard variety you might see elsewhere (flip the colors around on the Son'a subspace weapon and I think you'd have a closer match to what's in the azure nebula. Ie. it's closer to your garden variety subspace rift)
I believe the Tholian Assembly is one nation spread across every alternate universe, and that ribbon in the background is a rift they can use to easily traverse between parallel universes.
Some potential 23c locations that could be added were Epsilon 9(construction or resupply), Drozana(Robbery investigation during downtime).
Aside from locations, they could also add USS Reuben James to the squadron at Caleb IV, Player joins one of the search parties for SS Artemis from The Ensigns of Command(depends on when the 23c player is from), or a first contact episode with Betazoids/Bolians/Saurians/some other species.
If they REALLY want to expand the universe, they can always break up the map down to either sectors or as a per-system map.
The game was like that at launch, and everyone hated it, which is why they merged it all into a few big maps
Yep. That is why I mentioned it.
Breaking it back down to sectors is going the reverse of what they were intending on doing with reducing the number of loaiding screens going from one place to another. Going from Earth to New Romulus used to be 2 loading screens just traveling to each sector block.
Maybe @tacofangs can clarify whether or not the current sector maps could still be expanded if so was required for the story?
There is still the possibility for sub-sector maps, which would fall between the full map and the system maps. It would need to not interfer with the current traveling methods, but there are a number of ways to add something such at this in.
I'd also like to do some minor missions that involve taking you to the founding worlds of the Federation (Earth, Andoria, Tellar Prime, Vulcan), so those would be fun.
I would absolutely love to see what you can do with all of these areas. Make it so please!
I've often talked about rebuilding the DS9 interior. That is still on the table, but not being worked on. I'd also like to do some minor missions that involve taking you to the founding worlds of the Federation (Earth, Andoria, Tellar Prime, Vulcan), so those would be fun.
Well, they have one mission on Vulcan involving a visiting Romulan VIP, and Starfleet Academy on Earth has some minor activities. But, yes, I'd like to see a bit more with both, perhaps going into the cities of ShiKahr and San Francisco themselves. As for Andoria, I could see it being about continuing tensions between the aggressive Andorians and pacifistic Aenar. Tellar Prime could be fun, with dialogue choices in which you have to remember to keep being as insulting as possible to stay on the Tellarites' good side. I wouldn't mind some mission on Trill, Betazed, Rigel, and Bolarus either, not to mention Ferenginar and Cardassia.
I also wouldn't mind seeing them expand on the Orion Syndicate a bit. They allied with the Klingon Empire, but the STO timeline made it clear that their leader, the 'Emerald Empress' Melani D'ian, had an agenda of her own. I can't see her accepting galactic peace between the UFP, Klingon Empire and Romulan Republic. Frankly, I can't see the Nausicaans being happy with peace either. Both thrive and profit from underworld dealings, and a lasting Alliance between the three can't help but be bad for that type of business.
Talos is also off the map. (1 sector south of the southern border of the AQ in our game) It's also off-limits last I heard.
Yeah I know, I never got why you(Cryptic, not you personally) didn't expand the Alpha quadrant one more sector row down, since there is quite a bit of space down there ranging from Talos to the Talarans.
And by off limits do you mean its quarantined in universe, or that CBS has literally said that Cryptic is forbidden from going there?
We may at some point, but for the initial Sector Space revamp, there was no need. Everything we had (mostly) fit into the sectors we made. Plus, we already had PLENTY to do without adding more sectors.
They moved around a lot of the systems when they revamped the map. Look at the ones around DS9 and you'll see this.
My question was, why didn't they expand it down one more row to fit in the Talarans, Talos, and a number of other planets down there.
Because we didn't have the time or manpower to make any CONTENT there, so we'd be doing a bunch of art & design work to create a bunch of pointless sectors for nothing more than fan service.
If/when we have stories to tell that take place there, you can bet we'll expand the quadrant as needed.
I was responding to the size of the map you were referring to. Moving the systems around, and even adding several allowed them to minimize the whole thing. Given, they didn't put everything, but some was added. They may add more later when they update the maps again.
so it was directly related to your post...
. . . as they were able to expand out to the Breen homeworld, which serves no purpose in the game, and was never seen in lore, but they couldn't expand to places actually seen like Talos and the Talarians for reasons unexplained.
Please stop claiming things were not explained. I have explained things multiple times in this very thread, as well as many times before.
We expanded the Alpha Quadrant to the left, because a number of important systems we ALREADY HAD CONTENT FOR, were located in those sectors. As it happens, the Breen Homeworld is ALSO in those sectors. When naming Sectors, we usually name them for the most prominent system within that sector. Hence Vulcan Sector, Qo'noS Sector, Bajor Sector, etc.
Breen was the most prominent system in that sector. Therefor, we named the sector "Breen Sector." But we're not going to name it for a system, and then NOT include that system. So we also ADDED the system, despite it not having any function at the moment. We did this several times. Please see Trill/Trill Sector, Tellar/Tellar Sector
NONE of the systems we already had content for, belonged in the sectors south of what we made. So we did not artificially inflate the AQ that way.
Maybe @tacofangs can clarify whether or not the current sector maps could still be expanded if so was required for the story?
Each Sector is fictionally 20LY across, but in reality, 2500' across. So, 4 sectors = 10000'.
Games are built on floating point math. That means that we have a set number of digits to play with when we're calculating anything.
Let's simplify, and say we have 4 digits of precision.
0.000
When you are near the origin of the map (0, 0, 0), we have a fair amount of precision when drawing things. We can put something at the following coordinates:
1.234, 0.982, 3.170
However, as you start moving away from the origin, we still only have 4 digits of precision, and we just start moving the decimal (floating point), around.
So as we move out, we can put things at coordinates like this:
34.23, 95.10, 76.47
And as we keep going. . .
493.2, 176.4, 983.3
Notice anything? The further we move from the origin, the less precise our math is getting. That translates into very real artifacts in game.
Let's keep going:
9251, 3482, 8726
This is beyond the final frontier. At this point, animations get jittery, gaps start appearing in geometry that should be tight, and all sorts of other weird stuff happens.
So, let's go back to our Quadrants. We have sectors that are 2500' across. Things start getting wonky at about 12000' from the origin. So we get about 4 or 5 sectors in any direction from the origin of the map. Now, we knew this going in, and built smartly. We put the origin of the AQ map at the corners of the Cardassia & Orias Sectors. Which is. . . you guessed it, 4 sectors from the edge of the Beta Quadrant.
So, that means that we could potentially go out to the LEFT of the Alpha Quadrant another 3 sectors. We could go UP another 1. And we could go DOWN another 3.
None of that means we WILL go anywhere in those directions. It just means we left ourselves a bit of wiggle room to play with.
By contrast, the Beta Quadrant is already 6x7 Sectors, and has less room to expand.
You will have to excuse the number of people who question the official statement when just the Breen system alone is a massive whirlpool of inconsistency with said statement.
How so? I really don't see your point. The Organians, for example, played a pivotal role in FED history through a single TOS episode (and later references) which does not directly relate to STO (the KDF/FED War arcs even highlights how they didn't have a lasting impact.) The Breen on the other hand had a pivotal presence through the later part of the Dominion War (part of which we see in AOY and also in the 2800 arc) and have their own arc in STO (where they try to capture/kill the species that created humanoid life in the galaxy). Regardless of how you view "the grand scheme", their home sector (which already existed in STO) having the Breen homeworld is quite appropriate.
I'm sure it didn't add much work for the devs (does the Breen System use any unique assets?), and it does open up opportunities for Foundry authors (at least) to answer a very important question (just what the hell is up with the Breen homeworld? We do have their ships and ground units, after all.)
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How so? I really don't see your point. The Organians, for example, played a pivotal role in FED history through a single TOS episode (and later references) which does not directly relate to STO (the KDF/FED War arcs even highlights how they didn't have a lasting impact.)
Actually, the Organians also played a part in an episode of Enterprise during the last season, "Observer Effect". They predicted in TOS episode that the Federation and Klingons would become 'fast friends'. It's possible they went isolationist again after they determined that the smaller scale conflicts that later arose would lead to the future they saw, the one of the Dominion War. The novels have various explanations of their own, one of which is that the Organians and the Excalbians fell into conflict over the Excalbians' desire to see conflicts between 'good' and 'evil' which resulted in both species leaving the material plane. I find that explanation to be the most logical one as they were both all powerful species with diametrically opposed mindsets, as well as the lack of their intervening in the affairs of the Beta Quadrant afterward.
How about a Delta Prime Quadrant or something like that. Not a real Quadrant per se but made to accommodate limitations in the engine.
As far as General Order 7, that was issued over 150 years ago. Who knows what the state of that is.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
It's possible they went isolationist again after they determined that the smaller scale conflicts that later arose would lead to the future they saw, the one of the Dominion War.
If you pull on any thread in the Star Trek you're likely to unravel something. The intrusion by the Whale Probe for example could have had a significant impact on FED ship deployment which in turn affected strategy through every subsequent war. That, in the context of STO, doesn't make them more important to this game than other species who do play a direct role in 2409/2410 events (ex. the Breen). It just means they're part of the background.
Nice to give fan-service too, but difficult to take as a priority.
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Breen was the most prominent system in that sector. (...) You(not you personally, but Cryptic) named the sector for a system that wasn't there, put a system where it isn't based on the very maps you used to make the game, and made that planet and system art despite not having any content for it, not to mention the Breen aren't even THAT important of a race in the grand scheme of Star Trek, yet couldn't do it for planets that were(like Organia)?
I have to say something to this. First, the original maps for the game weren't created by Cryptic, but another company. Cryptic updated the maps to their current form. Second, your argument about the Breen is irrelevant. The Breen played a major role in an earlier STO storyline and anything dealing with the Cannon of Star Trek you can toss right in that trash bin over there, because it serves no purpose when dealing with this game. (yes, I know I've discussed similar things, but always with the fact that STO and Star Trek Cannon are NOT the same thing.)
100% unrelated to that, but is there any chance in some future update we could get a minor correction to the galaxy map?
Nope. Only changes to the map will be ones that advance the game based on Cryptics list of requisites. Changing the map to an earlier version would be going backwards (I believe someone said this to me in this thread when they misunderstood a statement I made earlier, but it applies here as well.)
But the Alpha quad is only FIVE sectors across, and 4 up/down. Its been there since the galaxy map was redone, and its always bothered me.
The current map is the consolidated map. They put things in the General area of a sector of the indicated quadrant, but it can go anywhere they wish to place it. The offical Star Trek maps (not STO) vary too much for any consistency to base any game on. But it's better than "Vulcan is over that-a-way". Since there isn't a fixed map to work from, it doesn't really matter.
Leaves plenty of room for additions to the game and more depth to be added later.
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
There's some visual similarities but I think it's just a matter of convergent evolution in designing a tear in the universe. This would also apply to the anomaly used to access the Elachi domain. It's also an "energy ribbon" but the effect, circumstance, and visual details are distinct from Generations.
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If that's NOT meant to be the Nexus there's a HUGE coincidence....
My character Tsin'xing
I thought they had said the current way the maps are handled can be expanded if they decide there's a need for it.
Coincidence, I'd say. The nexus was always in motion (waving, sparking, and moving through space). In universe you could explain it as similar phenomena (tears in the universe) but "the nexus" is one with very peculiar properties from the standard variety you might see elsewhere (flip the colors around on the Son'a subspace weapon and I think you'd have a closer match to what's in the azure nebula. Ie. it's closer to your garden variety subspace rift)
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Subspace_tear?file=SubspaceTear.jpg
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My character Tsin'xing
Not to mention the only way you could reliably enter it safely is to blow up some stars.
However, this would take forever to go from one zone to another without using the Transwarp for everything.
But, then again, they could add randomize system encounters this way, and that was one of the things they pulled from the game due to probs with it shortly before the map merger (or was it right after?).
^^ What he said.
I believe the Tholian Assembly is one nation spread across every alternate universe, and that ribbon in the background is a rift they can use to easily traverse between parallel universes.
Aside from locations, they could also add USS Reuben James to the squadron at Caleb IV, Player joins one of the search parties for SS Artemis from The Ensigns of Command(depends on when the 23c player is from), or a first contact episode with Betazoids/Bolians/Saurians/some other species.
Yep. That is why I mentioned it.
Breaking it back down to sectors is going the reverse of what they were intending on doing with reducing the number of loaiding screens going from one place to another. Going from Earth to New Romulus used to be 2 loading screens just traveling to each sector block.
Maybe @tacofangs can clarify whether or not the current sector maps could still be expanded if so was required for the story?
Me, too!
I also wouldn't mind seeing them expand on the Orion Syndicate a bit. They allied with the Klingon Empire, but the STO timeline made it clear that their leader, the 'Emerald Empress' Melani D'ian, had an agenda of her own. I can't see her accepting galactic peace between the UFP, Klingon Empire and Romulan Republic. Frankly, I can't see the Nausicaans being happy with peace either. Both thrive and profit from underworld dealings, and a lasting Alliance between the three can't help but be bad for that type of business.
We may at some point, but for the initial Sector Space revamp, there was no need. Everything we had (mostly) fit into the sectors we made. Plus, we already had PLENTY to do without adding more sectors.
Off Limits, as in General Order 7.
OK
Because we didn't have the time or manpower to make any CONTENT there, so we'd be doing a bunch of art & design work to create a bunch of pointless sectors for nothing more than fan service.
If/when we have stories to tell that take place there, you can bet we'll expand the quadrant as needed.
Please stop claiming things were not explained. I have explained things multiple times in this very thread, as well as many times before.
We expanded the Alpha Quadrant to the left, because a number of important systems we ALREADY HAD CONTENT FOR, were located in those sectors. As it happens, the Breen Homeworld is ALSO in those sectors. When naming Sectors, we usually name them for the most prominent system within that sector. Hence Vulcan Sector, Qo'noS Sector, Bajor Sector, etc.
Breen was the most prominent system in that sector. Therefor, we named the sector "Breen Sector." But we're not going to name it for a system, and then NOT include that system. So we also ADDED the system, despite it not having any function at the moment. We did this several times. Please see Trill/Trill Sector, Tellar/Tellar Sector
NONE of the systems we already had content for, belonged in the sectors south of what we made. So we did not artificially inflate the AQ that way.
Each Sector is fictionally 20LY across, but in reality, 2500' across. So, 4 sectors = 10000'.
Games are built on floating point math. That means that we have a set number of digits to play with when we're calculating anything.
Let's simplify, and say we have 4 digits of precision.
0.000
When you are near the origin of the map (0, 0, 0), we have a fair amount of precision when drawing things. We can put something at the following coordinates:
1.234, 0.982, 3.170
However, as you start moving away from the origin, we still only have 4 digits of precision, and we just start moving the decimal (floating point), around.
So as we move out, we can put things at coordinates like this:
34.23, 95.10, 76.47
And as we keep going. . .
493.2, 176.4, 983.3
Notice anything? The further we move from the origin, the less precise our math is getting. That translates into very real artifacts in game.
Let's keep going:
9251, 3482, 8726
This is beyond the final frontier. At this point, animations get jittery, gaps start appearing in geometry that should be tight, and all sorts of other weird stuff happens.
So, let's go back to our Quadrants. We have sectors that are 2500' across. Things start getting wonky at about 12000' from the origin. So we get about 4 or 5 sectors in any direction from the origin of the map. Now, we knew this going in, and built smartly. We put the origin of the AQ map at the corners of the Cardassia & Orias Sectors. Which is. . . you guessed it, 4 sectors from the edge of the Beta Quadrant.
So, that means that we could potentially go out to the LEFT of the Alpha Quadrant another 3 sectors. We could go UP another 1. And we could go DOWN another 3.
None of that means we WILL go anywhere in those directions. It just means we left ourselves a bit of wiggle room to play with.
By contrast, the Beta Quadrant is already 6x7 Sectors, and has less room to expand.
Hope that helps to clear stuff up.
How so? I really don't see your point. The Organians, for example, played a pivotal role in FED history through a single TOS episode (and later references) which does not directly relate to STO (the KDF/FED War arcs even highlights how they didn't have a lasting impact.) The Breen on the other hand had a pivotal presence through the later part of the Dominion War (part of which we see in AOY and also in the 2800 arc) and have their own arc in STO (where they try to capture/kill the species that created humanoid life in the galaxy). Regardless of how you view "the grand scheme", their home sector (which already existed in STO) having the Breen homeworld is quite appropriate.
I'm sure it didn't add much work for the devs (does the Breen System use any unique assets?), and it does open up opportunities for Foundry authors (at least) to answer a very important question (just what the hell is up with the Breen homeworld? We do have their ships and ground units, after all.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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As far as General Order 7, that was issued over 150 years ago. Who knows what the state of that is.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
If you pull on any thread in the Star Trek you're likely to unravel something. The intrusion by the Whale Probe for example could have had a significant impact on FED ship deployment which in turn affected strategy through every subsequent war. That, in the context of STO, doesn't make them more important to this game than other species who do play a direct role in 2409/2410 events (ex. the Breen). It just means they're part of the background.
Nice to give fan-service too, but difficult to take as a priority.
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I have to say something to this. First, the original maps for the game weren't created by Cryptic, but another company. Cryptic updated the maps to their current form. Second, your argument about the Breen is irrelevant. The Breen played a major role in an earlier STO storyline and anything dealing with the Cannon of Star Trek you can toss right in that trash bin over there, because it serves no purpose when dealing with this game. (yes, I know I've discussed similar things, but always with the fact that STO and Star Trek Cannon are NOT the same thing.)
Nope. Only changes to the map will be ones that advance the game based on Cryptics list of requisites. Changing the map to an earlier version would be going backwards (I believe someone said this to me in this thread when they misunderstood a statement I made earlier, but it applies here as well.)
The current map is the consolidated map. They put things in the General area of a sector of the indicated quadrant, but it can go anywhere they wish to place it. The offical Star Trek maps (not STO) vary too much for any consistency to base any game on. But it's better than "Vulcan is over that-a-way". Since there isn't a fixed map to work from, it doesn't really matter.
Leaves plenty of room for additions to the game and more depth to be added later.