I extrapolate. Starfleet's task is the defense of the UFP, no other organisation with that task is ever mentioned and Beyond hints at the disbanding of Earth's military and it's absorption with the foundation of the UFP. I assume that's what happens to all member worlds as it's consequential and makes sense, but it is never explicitly stated. The moment this changes my interpretation may be falsified, of course.
That does not necessarily mean Earth quit having a military, but that it was absorbed into Starfleet.
(...) and while other characters in setting have said EXACTLY the opposite, lets ignore them because we don't like it.
Oh the irony.
But seriously, there is literally nothing else to say. You either don't understand or ignore the point on purpose.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
There's no irony in noting the verbal evidence is contradictory and then moving on to examine canon events and behavior.
Picard says it isn't. Others say it is.
Rodenberry says it isn't. Other writers say it is. And the owner of the setting put them up on the screen just as readily.
Star Fleet's actions, their stories, their costuming, their terminology all say "yeah, definitely the Federation's armed defenders."
But papa Picard says it's a bicycle and it's fiction so who cares that it's shaped and revealed attitudes for 50 years and how dare we hold it to any level of scrutiny?
Oh, so civilians know nothing and people in the organization have it right....
Funny, because to a man every person here claiming to be in the armed forces have said "Yeah, Star Fleet looks and acts pretty much just like our military." Almost as if to a person in a military organization might have some inkling how they actually operate.
Sure it does. Of course you're not supposed to treat everything in a fictional work as real life fact, or do you believe there are wizards and hobbitts and orcs or Jedi and Sith lords in real life? It's all part of the suspension of disbelief. Just like we are meant to believe transporters and warp drive and tribbles are real.
We as the viewer are told repeatedly in various episodes/films of Star Trek that Starfleet is not a military organization. That makes it fact for that fictional world, regardless what real life says.
Oh, so civilians know nothing and people in the organization have it right....
Funny, because to a man every person here claiming to be in the armed forces have said "Yeah, Star Fleet looks and acts pretty much just like our military." Almost as if to a person in a military organization might have some inkling how they actually operate.
Errr... I'm confused.
So today, civilians think that the Military are uniformed killers.
But people in the Military know that the above is not true.
In this debate.
A civilian states that Starfleet is Military.
But people in Starfleet say it isn't.
I can't... use... my words
EDIT:
Ok I think I get more of what you are saying now.
Maybe.
I think that highlights the argument again.
David sees Starfleet the same way we would. As a Military.
Starfleet says it is not a Military, even though it certainly looks like one to everyone else.
Ideological differences.
Starfleet does not want to be viewed as the Military. It may indeed be that exact thing, and there are examples of individuals within the organization that think the same. But it does not want to be viewed as such. Believing itself to be a multi-role organization.
Why was Starfleet created.
The show says it best.
Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before.
Matthew 7:16 said it best, I think: "By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?"
Y'all keep calling a tail a leg, as if that made a difference. Starfleet operates in the fashion of a military, starting with the Academy from which officers must graduate; it carries out the functions of a military, from safeguarding civilians in dangerous places to defending populations from outside attack; members are held under military discipline, and subject to courts-martial for violations of that discipline. You can tell me Jean-Luc claimed it wasn't really a military until your tongue falls out, and I'll probably just keep referring you to Sisko's speech about how easy it is to be a saint in Paradise.
Matthew 7:16 said it best, I think: "By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?"
Y'all keep calling a tail a leg, as if that made a difference. Starfleet operates in the fashion of a military, starting with the Academy from which officers must graduate; it carries out the functions of a military, from safeguarding civilians in dangerous places to defending populations from outside attack; members are held under military discipline, and subject to courts-martial for violations of that discipline. You can tell me Jean-Luc claimed it wasn't really a military until your tongue falls out, and I'll probably just keep referring you to Sisko's speech about how easy it is to be a saint in Paradise.
1st Samuel 16:7
Y'all keep refusing to see an organization capable of defense of self as anything but a Military.
Oh, by the way, this is not a ship of exploration:
It is, however, a ship that was used to provide relief to civilians in the wake of a natural disaster - specifically, a typhoon that struck the Phillippines. The Enterprise devoted the output of one of her eight nuclear reactors to powering the city of Manila and surrounding environs. Meanwhile, search&rescue missions were flown from her flight deck.
It is, however, a ship that was used to provide relief to civilians in the wake of a natural disaster - specifically, a typhoon that struck the Phillippines. The Enterprise devoted the output of one of her eight nuclear reactors to powering the city of Manila and surrounding environs. Meanwhile, search&rescue missions were flown from her flight deck.
I was bummed when they announced that she was to be decommissioned.
It makes sense why, but it was just one of those things you thought would be around forever.
It is, however, a ship that was used to provide relief to civilians in the wake of a natural disaster - specifically, a typhoon that struck the Phillippines. The Enterprise devoted the output of one of her eight nuclear reactors to powering the city of Manila and surrounding environs. Meanwhile, search&rescue missions were flown from her flight deck.
I was bummed when they announced that she was to be decommissioned.
It makes sense why, but it was just one of those things you thought would be around forever.
Yeah but it was announced CVN-80 will be named Enterprise. And she is to receive a time capsule from both CV-6 and CVN-65 which I think is awesome.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
The reserve activation clause was a Starfleet regulation which was in force during the 2270s. Described as "little-known" and "seldom-used," the clause provided for the recall of a discharged or retired Starfleet officer to active duty in response to a crisis or emergency.
In the mid-2270s, Fleet Admiral Nogura, at the request of Rear Admiral James T. Kirk, recalled Leonard McCoy to active duty in the Starfleet using the reserve activation clause. Upon reporting to the USS Enterprise, Doctor McCoy stated "In simpler language... they drafted me!" (Star Trek: The Motion Picture)
And yet somehow a non-military outfit like starfleet can do that....again how is suspension of disbelief supposed to cover that?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
The reserve activation clause was a Starfleet regulation which was in force during the 2270s. Described as "little-known" and "seldom-used," the clause provided for the recall of a discharged or retired Starfleet officer to active duty in response to a crisis or emergency.
In the mid-2270s, Fleet Admiral Nogura, at the request of Rear Admiral James T. Kirk, recalled Leonard McCoy to active duty in the Starfleet using the reserve activation clause. Upon reporting to the USS Enterprise, Doctor McCoy stated "In simpler language... they drafted me!" (Star Trek: The Motion Picture)
Memory Alpha: Starfleet
Starfleet was the deep-space exploratory and defense service maintained by the United Federation of Planets. Its principal functions included the advancement of Federation knowledge about the galaxy and its inhabitants, the advancement of Federation science and technology, the defense of the Federation, and the facilitation of Federation diplomacy.
As per its mandate of deep-space exploration, its personnel were frequently brought into contact with cultures and sentient species whose existences were unknown to the Federation. Starfleet officers therefore acted as official representatives of the Federation in these cases. Starfleet vessels were also frequently used to ferry ambassadors on diplomatic missions. (TNG: "The Last Outpost", "Conspiracy"; VOY: "Innocence", "The Void"; TOS: "Journey to Babel"; Star Trek)
The primary purpose of Starfleet from its infancy was to "...seek out new life and new civilizations," and "...go boldly where no man has gone before." (This quote is attributed to Zefram Cochrane, the inventor of warp drive on Earth.) (ENT: "Broken Bow")
In contrast.
Wikipedia: United States Army
As a branch of the armed forces, the mission of the U.S. Army is "to fight and win our Nation's wars, by providing prompt, sustained, land dominance, across the full range of military operations and the spectrum of conflict, in support of combatant commanders." The service participates in conflicts worldwide and is the major ground-based offensive and defensive force.
Wikipedia; United States Navy
The mission of the Navy is to maintain, train and equip combat-ready Naval forces capable of winning wars, deterring aggression and maintaining freedom of the seas.
— Mission statement of the United States Navy
From the New Recruits Handbook:
The mission of the United States Navy is to protect and defend the right of the United States and our allies to move freely on the oceans and to protect our country against her enemies.
The United States Navy is a seaborne branch of the military of the United States. The Navy's three primary areas of responsibility:
The preparation of naval forces necessary for the effective prosecution of war.
The maintenance of naval aviation, including land-based naval aviation, air transport essential for naval operations, and all air weapons and air techniques involved in the operations and activities of the Navy.
The development of aircraft, weapons, tactics, technique, organization, and equipment of naval combat and service elements.
U.S. Navy training manuals state that the mission of the U.S. Armed Forces is "to prepare and conduct prompt and sustained combat operations in support of the national interest. "As part of that establishment, the U.S. Navy's functions comprise sea control, power projection and nuclear deterrence, in addition to "sealift" duties.
The Japanese called their brutal despotic empire the "Greater East Asia Co Prosperity Sphere." But it wasn't a co-prosperity sphere, it was a brutal despotic empire. They can call their military part of their police force, but that it isn't, it's their military.
You can find a couple of lines from star trek where it is falsely claimed that starfleet isnt the federation's military, but that doesnt make it true.
What matters is facts.
Then Starfleet is the most moronic Military ever created.
No armor for field troops.
Poor secondary backup systems.
Lackluster ship armor and weak structural designs.
Their ships are incredibly lightly armed for their size.
Critical ship systems are overly exposed to both elements and combatants.
Their crews are poorly trained to handle direct conflict.
No standing or even volunteer Army.
Despite knowing they would lose an all out war with the Klingons, have done nothing to rectify this.
Agreed to enemy demands to not develop cloaking tech for their ships.
Send ground forces in with nothing but handphasers and occasional tricorder.
Poor to nonexistent medical support for ground forces. (Not even a basic field unit for each "soldier")
We could go on and on. I mean seriously. Their consoles still EXPLODE when over loaded.
What? Did they forget about surge protectors or something?
Matthew 7:16 said it best, I think: "By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?"
Y'all keep calling a tail a leg, as if that made a difference. Starfleet operates in the fashion of a military, starting with the Academy from which officers must graduate; it carries out the functions of a military, from safeguarding civilians in dangerous places to defending populations from outside attack; members are held under military discipline, and subject to courts-martial for violations of that discipline. You can tell me Jean-Luc claimed it wasn't really a military until your tongue falls out, and I'll probably just keep referring you to Sisko's speech about how easy it is to be a saint in Paradise.
1st Samuel 16:7
Y'all keep refusing to see an organization capable of defense of self as anything but a Military.
Let's take a look at the actual real-world definition used by... most countries. Read article 13 of the Geneva Convention: download here
It uses a wide variety of terms when describing who it applies to(it actually does apply to organized militias), but it most certainly applies to Starfleet.
Let's take a look at the actual real-world definition used by... most countries. Read article 13 of the Geneva Convention: download here
It uses a wide variety of terms when describing who it applies to(it actually does apply to organized militias), but it most certainly applies to Starfleet.
Star Trek isn't the real world...
How else would this type of debate even exist?
The Japanese called their brutal despotic empire the "Greater East Asia Co Prosperity Sphere." But it wasn't a co-prosperity sphere, it was a brutal despotic empire. They can call their military part of their police force, but that it isn't, it's their military.
You can find a couple of lines from star trek where it is falsely claimed that starfleet isnt the federation's military, but that doesnt make it true.
What matters is facts.
Then Starfleet is the most moronic Military ever created.
No armor for field troops.
Poor secondary backup systems.
Lackluster ship armor and weak structural designs.
Their ships are incredibly lightly armed for their size.
Critical ship systems are overly exposed to both elements and combatants.
Their crews are poorly trained to handle direct conflict.
No standing or even volunteer Army.
Despite knowing they would lose an all out war with the Klingons, have done nothing to rectify this.
Agreed to enemy demands to not develop cloaking tech for their ships.
Send ground forces in with nothing but handphasers and occasional tricorder.
Poor to nonexistent medical support for ground forces. (Not even a basic field unit for each "soldier")
We could go on and on. I mean seriously. Their consoles still EXPLODE when over loaded.
What? Did they forget about surge protectors or something?
No standing army. Then what was those personnel fighting on the planet Nog lost his legs on?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
No standing army. Then what was those personnel fighting on the planet Nog lost his legs on?
MACO perhaps.
Other than that, its ship personnel.
I think that the point being missed here is that this is a fictional piece of work.
It abides by its own rules. Not ours. So by its own rules, Starfleet is not a Military.
Under ours rules, it would indeed be hard to justify it as anything else.
Even if they insisted upon it being heavily armed scientists out exploring the galaxy.
And for those that get their feathers ruffled. Tough.
You take insult when none was offered, intended, or even thought.
I mention us outgrowing the need for Militaries and you react like a teenager.
A phase to grow out of I believe was the response.
Yes. A phase we grow out of.
Guess what. Mankind evolves. And if we could grow a functioning brain for all of us. War wouldn't exist.
Border conflicts wouldn't exist.
Our great diplomatic solution to a new neighbor wouldn't be to spy on them, and beat them up.
That doesn't mean I, or others, have any disrespect for those that have chosen to serve.
My Grandpa was a Colonel in the Air Force. I have friends that have been Tomb Guards. Cousins that were engineers.
They wouldn't trade it for anything.
This world is a better place in more way than bad because of them.
That doesn't mean that one day we may achieve a way to grow past that. Hopefully we do.
Then they wouldn't be a Military anymore. That or *gasp* we may have to redefine just what a Military does and is.
@darthmeow504 Spaz out with that chip on your shoulder much, especially when you dont know, or dont fully read whats going on?
My response was to ssbns statement that because he was in the Navy, that I couldn't "start to argue", my service in the Army was never a qualifier, just a general statement, followed by another statement that could be made by anyone with common sense.
You were so willing to fly off of the handle, without even really thinking about what the deal was, that you could t even read the full statement, otherwise you most likely wouldnt have retorted with what you did.
I dont know which is worse SSBN's comment, showing he probably didnt read my comment and think first because much of what he has said before that looks like he would agree with me, or your statement flying off the handle knowing you probably wouldnt agree if you even had read it.
Cool your jets, read, think, then comment, please.
No standing army. Then what was those personnel fighting on the planet Nog lost his legs on?
MACO perhaps.
(...)
MACO was disbanded with the foudnation of the UFP and absorbed into Starfleet (Star Trek Beyond). The "troops" we see are in dialogue and appearance nothing but Starfleet officers. In a combat situation bringing some gear but nothing hints at them being anything but Starfleet officers (Department colours, ranks etc.). The only thing we have is Nog calling one of them a "soldier" and that's one of those fluid terms. A soldier is a combatant, which Starfleet is. Wether or not they define themselves as such is unknown, we have canonical statements pro and contra (Kirk says he's a soldier, O'Brien says he's not - maybe "soldier" does mean a state of mind, a spirit rather than a profession?)
Regarding the other point, during the TWOK era Starfleet was written much more militarized facing protest of some involved people, that's a fact. Meyers does clearly see them this way. Later installments though explicitly said they're not. Although in TWOK nobody but an emotional Marcus explicitly said that I'd vote for conflict averted, but if we take David's statement as exposition (the way it's written I'd disagree, though) we still have the situation of later canon overruling former one. Twice. So it is a conflict, but it has somewhat been taken care of.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
That's not how it works. There were periods in Earth's history when the navies were dedicated to exploration, which was also used as a euphemism for colonial conquest. Additionally, Starfleet ships get diverted to war fronts as a priority.
Starfleet has JAG officers who administer courts-martial, no matter what its primary mission is.
Oh, by the way, this is not a ship of exploration:
That's projection of force. Not exploration for the sake of exploration. Not sure what the carrier is supposed to prove because it doesn't disagree with what I said.
As far a court marshals go, that's a moot point. The same term could be used differently by a different type of organization in the future, which by all accounts in canon is what Starfleet is.
Really people, you can argue with canon all you want, but in canon Starfleet is not considered a military. By today's standards it most certainly is, but all this arguing over semantics because people don't like the idea that Starfleet isn't a military.
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
Oh the irony.
But seriously, there is literally nothing else to say. You either don't understand or ignore the point on purpose.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Picard says it isn't. Others say it is.
Rodenberry says it isn't. Other writers say it is. And the owner of the setting put them up on the screen just as readily.
Star Fleet's actions, their stories, their costuming, their terminology all say "yeah, definitely the Federation's armed defenders."
But papa Picard says it's a bicycle and it's fiction so who cares that it's shaped and revealed attitudes for 50 years and how dare we hold it to any level of scrutiny?
Funny, because to a man every person here claiming to be in the armed forces have said "Yeah, Star Fleet looks and acts pretty much just like our military." Almost as if to a person in a military organization might have some inkling how they actually operate.
Hey now. Let's not get into religion here.
http://www.jedichurch.org/
The Wizard by Black Sabbath
And Hobbit . . Wow there are a lot of those. I was going to say it sounded like a breakfast cereal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbit_(disambiguation)
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Errr... I'm confused.
So today, civilians think that the Military are uniformed killers.
But people in the Military know that the above is not true.
In this debate.
A civilian states that Starfleet is Military.
But people in Starfleet say it isn't.
I can't... use... my words
EDIT:
Ok I think I get more of what you are saying now.
Maybe.
I think that highlights the argument again.
David sees Starfleet the same way we would. As a Military.
Starfleet says it is not a Military, even though it certainly looks like one to everyone else.
Ideological differences.
Starfleet does not want to be viewed as the Military. It may indeed be that exact thing, and there are examples of individuals within the organization that think the same. But it does not want to be viewed as such. Believing itself to be a multi-role organization.
Why was Starfleet created.
The show says it best.
Y'all keep calling a tail a leg, as if that made a difference. Starfleet operates in the fashion of a military, starting with the Academy from which officers must graduate; it carries out the functions of a military, from safeguarding civilians in dangerous places to defending populations from outside attack; members are held under military discipline, and subject to courts-martial for violations of that discipline. You can tell me Jean-Luc claimed it wasn't really a military until your tongue falls out, and I'll probably just keep referring you to Sisko's speech about how easy it is to be a saint in Paradise.
1st Samuel 16:7
Y'all keep refusing to see an organization capable of defense of self as anything but a Military.
I was bummed when they announced that she was to be decommissioned.
It makes sense why, but it was just one of those things you thought would be around forever.
Yeah but it was announced CVN-80 will be named Enterprise. And she is to receive a time capsule from both CV-6 and CVN-65 which I think is awesome.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
That is pretty cool +)
And yet somehow a non-military outfit like starfleet can do that....again how is suspension of disbelief supposed to cover that?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Memory Alpha: Starfleet
As per its mandate of deep-space exploration, its personnel were frequently brought into contact with cultures and sentient species whose existences were unknown to the Federation. Starfleet officers therefore acted as official representatives of the Federation in these cases. Starfleet vessels were also frequently used to ferry ambassadors on diplomatic missions. (TNG: "The Last Outpost", "Conspiracy"; VOY: "Innocence", "The Void"; TOS: "Journey to Babel"; Star Trek)
The primary purpose of Starfleet from its infancy was to "...seek out new life and new civilizations," and "...go boldly where no man has gone before." (This quote is attributed to Zefram Cochrane, the inventor of warp drive on Earth.) (ENT: "Broken Bow")
In contrast.
Wikipedia: United States Army
Wikipedia; United States Navy
— Mission statement of the United States Navy
From the New Recruits Handbook:
The mission of the United States Navy is to protect and defend the right of the United States and our allies to move freely on the oceans and to protect our country against her enemies.
The United States Navy is a seaborne branch of the military of the United States. The Navy's three primary areas of responsibility:
The preparation of naval forces necessary for the effective prosecution of war.
The maintenance of naval aviation, including land-based naval aviation, air transport essential for naval operations, and all air weapons and air techniques involved in the operations and activities of the Navy.
The development of aircraft, weapons, tactics, technique, organization, and equipment of naval combat and service elements.
U.S. Navy training manuals state that the mission of the U.S. Armed Forces is "to prepare and conduct prompt and sustained combat operations in support of the national interest. "As part of that establishment, the U.S. Navy's functions comprise sea control, power projection and nuclear deterrence, in addition to "sealift" duties.
Then Starfleet is the most moronic Military ever created.
No armor for field troops.
Poor secondary backup systems.
Lackluster ship armor and weak structural designs.
Their ships are incredibly lightly armed for their size.
Critical ship systems are overly exposed to both elements and combatants.
Their crews are poorly trained to handle direct conflict.
No standing or even volunteer Army.
Despite knowing they would lose an all out war with the Klingons, have done nothing to rectify this.
Agreed to enemy demands to not develop cloaking tech for their ships.
Send ground forces in with nothing but handphasers and occasional tricorder.
Poor to nonexistent medical support for ground forces. (Not even a basic field unit for each "soldier")
We could go on and on. I mean seriously. Their consoles still EXPLODE when over loaded.
What? Did they forget about surge protectors or something?
It uses a wide variety of terms when describing who it applies to(it actually does apply to organized militias), but it most certainly applies to Starfleet.
My character Tsin'xing
Star Trek isn't the real world...
How else would this type of debate even exist?
No standing army. Then what was those personnel fighting on the planet Nog lost his legs on?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
MACO perhaps.
Other than that, its ship personnel.
I think that the point being missed here is that this is a fictional piece of work.
It abides by its own rules. Not ours. So by its own rules, Starfleet is not a Military.
Under ours rules, it would indeed be hard to justify it as anything else.
Even if they insisted upon it being heavily armed scientists out exploring the galaxy.
And for those that get their feathers ruffled. Tough.
You take insult when none was offered, intended, or even thought.
I mention us outgrowing the need for Militaries and you react like a teenager.
A phase to grow out of I believe was the response.
Yes. A phase we grow out of.
Guess what. Mankind evolves. And if we could grow a functioning brain for all of us. War wouldn't exist.
Border conflicts wouldn't exist.
Our great diplomatic solution to a new neighbor wouldn't be to spy on them, and beat them up.
That doesn't mean I, or others, have any disrespect for those that have chosen to serve.
My Grandpa was a Colonel in the Air Force. I have friends that have been Tomb Guards. Cousins that were engineers.
They wouldn't trade it for anything.
This world is a better place in more way than bad because of them.
That doesn't mean that one day we may achieve a way to grow past that. Hopefully we do.
Then they wouldn't be a Military anymore. That or *gasp* we may have to redefine just what a Military does and is.
@darthmeow504 Spaz out with that chip on your shoulder much, especially when you dont know, or dont fully read whats going on?
My response was to ssbns statement that because he was in the Navy, that I couldn't "start to argue", my service in the Army was never a qualifier, just a general statement, followed by another statement that could be made by anyone with common sense.
You were so willing to fly off of the handle, without even really thinking about what the deal was, that you could t even read the full statement, otherwise you most likely wouldnt have retorted with what you did.
I dont know which is worse SSBN's comment, showing he probably didnt read my comment and think first because much of what he has said before that looks like he would agree with me, or your statement flying off the handle knowing you probably wouldnt agree if you even had read it.
Cool your jets, read, think, then comment, please.
MACO was disbanded with the foudnation of the UFP and absorbed into Starfleet (Star Trek Beyond). The "troops" we see are in dialogue and appearance nothing but Starfleet officers. In a combat situation bringing some gear but nothing hints at them being anything but Starfleet officers (Department colours, ranks etc.). The only thing we have is Nog calling one of them a "soldier" and that's one of those fluid terms. A soldier is a combatant, which Starfleet is. Wether or not they define themselves as such is unknown, we have canonical statements pro and contra (Kirk says he's a soldier, O'Brien says he's not - maybe "soldier" does mean a state of mind, a spirit rather than a profession?)
Regarding the other point, during the TWOK era Starfleet was written much more militarized facing protest of some involved people, that's a fact. Meyers does clearly see them this way. Later installments though explicitly said they're not. Although in TWOK nobody but an emotional Marcus explicitly said that I'd vote for conflict averted, but if we take David's statement as exposition (the way it's written I'd disagree, though) we still have the situation of later canon overruling former one. Twice. So it is a conflict, but it has somewhat been taken care of.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
As far a court marshals go, that's a moot point. The same term could be used differently by a different type of organization in the future, which by all accounts in canon is what Starfleet is.
Really people, you can argue with canon all you want, but in canon Starfleet is not considered a military. By today's standards it most certainly is, but all this arguing over semantics because people don't like the idea that Starfleet isn't a military.