As with anything in life, if one goes into something with the expectation of finding faults...
One will always find them.
I thank the Lord everyday for giving me the good sense to see most things in a positive light, and enjoy life as it comes.
I don't know wether I should feel adressed here, but extrapolating that any form of criticism just exists because one wanted to find faults is questionable at best Getting sick from overly drawn action scenes with bad camera work has nothing to do with being unable to enjoy life, if a part of the movie literally gives you a headache I'd assume it's fair game to mention that not in a positive light
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
First things first, a tl;dr: It's not a terrible movie. It's not even a terrible Star Trek movie. But it is overall and completely... average. And I cannot understand the overwhelmingly positive reviews.
Because it was a visual spectacle and because it had a plot that didn't make you want to headbut things. But also because it felt like a film and not like a two hour TV episode.
Visuals: Starting with mostly spoiler free impressions that are still very fresh, I didn't take notes so things may slip me, but as with both predecessors to this movie I still do not like the visuals. The hallways of the Enterprise still look like Captain Antilles corvette from ANH and the Yorktown, although refreshingly mid-20th century sci-fi is just a huge goofy ball of nonsense. It looks like those over the top space cities we see in Guardians of the Galaxy, Thor and similiar movies (which I like). But keep in mind I also do not like Dyson spheres, if you are a fan of this concept maybe the Yorktown thrills you more.
I loved seeing and interacting with Yorktown in the Imax. I still don't think it fits in with the Federations aesthetics nor that the Federation could afford such a thing as it seems to take ST into a SW level of industrialisation.
The uniforms look better in this one, though, as they got rid of those Star Wars Imperial fascist uniforms for Starfleet, at least they do not show those anywhere.
Dress uniforms usually change when the duty ones do so it's very likely they have new ones now.
Action: OH MY GOD MAKE IT STOP. Seriously. I like good action scenes, I even like hand-to-hand/martial arts scenes to a degree, but this was just excessive. Cut it out, I do not need fifteen minute sequences of people punching and kicking. In the first third of the movie leading up to the crash my wife at one point came over to me and said what I was thinking: We do not need to see every single crewmwmber kicking someone for five minutes. At this point in the movie it is superflous and builds no tension - we know nobody with a name will die here and we do not need to see all of them fighting generic goons - and not using a single missile dropkick in the process! Also something that applies to the ground and space action/combat likewise: Zoom out a bit! seriously, the action is so close, so dark and full of mid-00s shaky cam you can hardly see what is going on while all the explosions, DU-DU-DU Star Wars engines and punches and kicks hammer onto your brain. I do not condone all action scenes, but considering the very sensitive weaknesses this flick has, less would have been more here, definitely.
I dislike the close ups, shaky cam, zooms, and all those things, but the action is great. It really does add more stakes because you can see and feel the effects things can have instead of imagining them. Having the camera shake and all the cast run to one side of the bridge is all well and good but there is no tension as there was when the swarm first attacks. Every death and every person getting sucked into space adds to the chaos. It has a very war film feel to it because it's chaotic.
This is what makes the movie so average - the villian, played by Idris Elba, comes with one of the flimsiest motivation to cast the universe into chaos like ever. We are used to wrinkly faced bad guys driven by revenge consuming them in Star Trek (movies) but what was this fuss all about? Krall, aka. Edison (Elba) was a MACO prior to the foundation of the UFP and fought Earth's wars. He was a decorated war hero and all that, but once the UFP was founded the militaries of the member worlds were disbanded, MACOs are no more and Edison, a ground commander, got a command in Starfleet exploring the universe. So far so confusing, but what's more confusing is that this assignment pissed him off so much that he wanted to end the Federation. Seriously. He literally states he couldn't stand to now have a command which would encounter aliens in peace, he's such a traumatised tragic hero that literally all he knows is war and needs to go on fighting forever. What kind of nonsense is this? Don't soldiers fight a war so there can be peace again? I think this is a very disrespectful message about soldiers right here and once again makes absolutely no sense. Sure, during this new command he didn't like the ship got lost, nobody came to rescue him, his crew died and he went crazy - but we had this setup in the shows already and it was handled better. Add the Deus-Ex machina that made him a wrinkly faced vampire to explain why he's still around and you have your generic evil villian number 3785.
What's even worse is that this could have worked better if we had spent the least bit of time getting to know Edison and the crew of the Franklin at all. Cut ten to fifteen minutes of people in the dark kicking faces and start the movie on the frigging Franklin, show his conflict, show what happened here so we can at least understand what is going on aside from "Hurr-Durr-Me Fighting WAAAGH!". Also, tell us more about the world we are on aside from "it was a mining world, natives left and we found hundred thousand of mining drones we now made into suicide bombers". Was the whole ship swarm kamikaze thing meant to be an anology on suicide bombing? I don't get it.
Removing the superweapon would have made it all better. That and removing the makeup that made Elba unable to speak properly. A ex-soldier going to war against the Federation that betrayed him makes sense to me, it's even compelling, it's certainly better than Khan's motivation in TWoK. I agree with the fact we could have done with more focus on the crew of the Franklin after the reveal was made.
Continuity: What's very positive is that my headcanon is pleased. We firmly establishing tha tthe KT follows ENT, referencing the uniforms and MACOs and give a brief glimpse of what happened afterwards. The Franklin works visually, the registry thing is a bit off but I am fairly certain the registry number is a real-life nod to something, just like the USS Holmes, NCC-221-B in TNG. Little nods here and there like original TOS sound effects are nicely done.
I think the issue comes from NX the prefix vs. NX the class. The NX-01 was referred to on displays as SS Enterprise suggesting that the NX on the hull was its class name rather than its registry. It's also possible the Franklin was renamed or re prefixed in the Romulan War even though it predates the NX.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Because it was a visual spectacle and because it had a plot that didn't make you want to headbut things. But also because it felt like a film and not like a two hour TV episode.
I can't argue with that, it certainly was. It might not hit the right buttons with me. I also agree it felt like a film, but like a film too long in my opinion or at least one that put the emphasize on the wrong points. A show episode could have certainly handled the non-action parts way better.
I loved seeing and interacting with Yorktown in the Imax. I still don't think it fits in with the Federations aesthetics nor that the Federation could afford such a thing as it seems to take ST into a SW level of industrialisation.
I don't have Imax anywhere near and I can't watch 3D movies because I get sick, so maybe those visual playthings would be necessary to enjoy the movie more but I can't use them. But for the Yorktwon, as I said, it was of a goofy kind of awesome but like you I thought it was completely misplaced in this movie in this function. Why would the UFP build that, how, why is it a huge bowl of glass that can crack at any point, causing the vacuum of space to suck it dry? I felt very much reminded of Guardians on Nova Prime.
Dress uniforms usually change when the duty ones do so it's very likely they have new ones now.
I hope so. Putting aside the "Starfleet issues new uniforms every odd week" trope, I liked them.
I dislike the close ups, shaky cam, zooms, and all those things, but the action is great. It really does add more stakes because you can see and feel the effects things can have instead of imagining them. Having the camera shake and all the cast run to one side of the bridge is all well and good but there is no tension as there was when the swarm first attacks. Every death and every person getting sucked into space adds to the chaos. It has a very war film feel to it because it's chaotic.
I see what it tried to show, but it was just too much for me. Too many minutes of chaos and kicking and explosions, couldn't they show just three instead of five people get sucked out, just four instead of six or so scenes of kamikaze ships crashing into the Enterprise, just five instead of 10 goons getting kicked? It didn't really do much for me especially since I missed extra time spend on the Franklin and Edison a lot.
Removing the superweapon would have made it all better. That and removing the makeup that made Elba unable to speak properly. A ex-soldier going to war against the Federation that betrayed him makes sense to me, it's even compelling, it's certainly better than Khan's motivation in TWoK. I agree with the fact we could have done with more focus on the crew of the Franklin after the reveal was made.
Yeah, what was his plan exactly? He said he wanted to provoke a new war that would unify Earth/Humans - I suppose this was a RL analogy on xenophobia ensuing, but why would that happen if Edison was to wipe out Yorktown? The UFP would then wage war against HIM - if his motivation was to somehow help Earth to it's former glory his actions would do nothing to achieve this. This is why I really would have liked more depth here, make me understand this better.
I think the issue comes from NX the prefix vs. NX the class. The NX-01 was referred to on displays as SS Enterprise suggesting that the NX on the hull was its class name rather than its registry. It's also possible the Franklin was renamed or re prefixed in the Romulan War even though it predates the NX.
I think this makes sense, the changed registry after UFP Starfleet's foundation and the NX not really being a registry at this point, but who knows. It's not something that really irks me. As opposed to bbeing able to shoot the bridge window with a hand phaser...
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
[snip]
What I forgot in my first posting was a few oddities here and there. For instance: You can shoot the "bridge window" of the Enterprise with a hand phaser. Seriously? Seriously?
Well remember in the first movie where it withstood the gravitational stress of the black hole without shattering. I figure that the reason Kirk is able to shoot it out in Beyond is because the structural integrity field is non functional.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
Personally I don't think a trek film will ever be a 5/5
You guys voting 5's are waaaaaay too generous. Seriously.
For those voting 5/5 .... Are you comparing this "Only to other Trek movies" ?
Or Movies in general ?
Because there is no way this movie is perfect if you compare it to other great films..
Pulp fiction is like 4/5
Shawshank Redemtion is like a 4/5
Casablanca is like a 4/5
and ST Beyond...is a 5/5.... uhhhmmmmm no. LOL
I smell Fanboy.
If you're scoring films on an absolute scale you're doing it wrong.
Are you implying that a Sci-Fi flick can't be taken as seriously as other genres ?
Because I'd strongly disagree with that assertion.
Any story, movie, book, novel, play, whatever, are all based around the ancient Greek concept of Comedy & Tragedy.
Any film, no matter the genre is capable of delivering stunning irony, comedy and tragedy.
Every story worth telling is a subset or combination of the two.
So yes, one can indeed rate any movie on an absolute scale, (if this is what you're referring to when you say absolute scale).
No, I'm saying scoring films as wildly different as Star Trek Beyond and Pulp Fiction on the same scale and with the same criteria is pointless. When you review something you score it against things similar to it, be they previous entries in the series or other media like it. In this instance you'd score Star Trek compared to other Star Trek or sci-fi films. Also, saying those films are 4's so Beyond can't possibly be a 5 implies there's some ultimate truth in reviews, which is nonsense. All reviews are is matters of opinion. It's not a science.
As opposed to bbeing able to shoot the bridge window with a hand phaser...
I'm going to ignore everything else you've said in support of this film or against it because this here is the kicker...
.
I'm guessing that, even though it's transparent aluminium it still has a SIF running through it. As the ships crashed and powerless the SIF is gone and all that's left is severely weakened material from the impact. It's metal as well so I assume it was also deformed by the impact, fracturing it perhaps. Kirk gambled a lot in guessing that it would shatter when he shot it but I don't think it's unreasonable to think that it would.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Well remember in the first movie where it withstood the gravitational stress of the black hole without shattering. I figure that the reason Kirk is able to shoot it out in Beyond is because the structural integrity field is non functional.
Yes, I somehow came to the same conclusion, but it still is odd. It's so thin and weird to just be able to shoot a hole into it and jump through it, even without forcefields. Mind you, that's not a stand or fall matter for the movie, just a nitpick.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I don't have Imax anywhere near and I can't watch 3D movies because I get sick, so maybe those visual playthings would be necessary to enjoy the movie more but I can't use them. But for the Yorktwon, as I said, it was of a goofy kind of awesome but like you I thought it was completely misplaced in this movie in this function. Why would the UFP build that, how, why is it a huge bowl of glass that can crack at any point, causing the vacuum of space to suck it dry? I felt very much reminded of Guardians on Nova Prime.
It did seem as if breaking the glass does not actually cause the air to be "sucked out". Because the glass did break.
That might have something to do with the artificial gravity the station is producing - Earth doesn't need a glass ceiling to stop it from venting atmosphere, either, and they are able to simulate earth gravity, after all.
I agree it felt a bit weird for Federation architecture, and it definitely evoked a sense of Nova Prime.
I am not sure who is doing the SFX for the Kelvin Timeline movies, but they seem to like a certain visual style, and the stellar objects they make seem... unlikely.
As opposed to bbeing able to shoot the bridge window with a hand phaser...
Of course, anything in science fiction is as hard or resilient as required for the plot. But I think at least within Star Trek, the structural integrity field might be the reasonable explanation.
A bit stranger IMO was that apparently those drones following the saucer section seemed to risk burning up in atmosphere - but were able to withstand colliding and penetrating the hull of a starship?
Ultimately, the problem of sci-fi writers having no sense of scale or math strikes again.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I never was a fan on the JJ Trek but he is right. It is Pegg Trek and Pegg is a Trekker. It shows. Kirk is Kirk once again. The chess player is back. Keeps his cool.
After 2 movies of him and crew acting the same way. I basically just decided its not worth watching. I'm not watching bad acting and horrible character development. Along with horrible story.
After reading Targ's review. I'm glad I won't be seeing it. All 3 JJ Trek movies of now had a "Bad" Starfleet officer. 1st was KU Kirk, 2nd was Marcus, and now some old dude. They can't get an original story going.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Let's see, TOS had Omega Glory, TUC had Starfleet officers as villains, Insurrection too, TSFS had Starfleet in an antagonistic position, TNG & DS9 both had multiple episodes involving "bad" officers, Voyager had the Equinox two- parter, and Braxton's eventual attempt to destroy Janeway.
Basically, every incarnation of Trek has done "evil from within" stories.
Three in a row is enough. Just shows they don't have an good idea. Or in this case original. So they go back to the old bad Starfleet officer routine.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Except of course that Kirk wasn't the villain and therefore does not fall under that category therefore at worst it is 2 movies in a row. Neither of those stories bearing any similarity to each other outside of "bad guy is from starfleet".
KU Kirk was a bad officer, and he was in the main story. He wasn't the villain, however he still was the role of a bad officer. As most people who did what he pulled, more likely be behind bars.
I'm out of this one again. Since someone quoted me and got my attention. As I'm just letting the JJ Trek Fans talk it out. I'm reading, but I'm not getting involved. Unless someone brings it up.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Not perfect but a pretty darn fun movie. I liked it more then the other two newer movies and many of the old movies as well. I'll have to watch it a few more times to be sure but for right now its in my top 5 trek movies along with Wrath of Khan, First Contact, Voyage home and Undiscovered Country.
Dr. Miranda Jones: I understand, Mr. Spock. The glory of creation is in its infinite diversity.
Mr. Spock: And the ways our differences combine, to create meaning and beauty.
I enjoyed it. This movie was a little bit more Trek than the others. Just some minor nitpicks:
2) I dislike space stations that starships have to go inside to dock. Yes I also dislike ESD. If a massive Romulan or Klingon fleet were to decloak and attack all those ships inside are toast.
See i like them because it was my thought that the ships went into the stations for protection while they are being repaired and such.
Dr. Miranda Jones: I understand, Mr. Spock. The glory of creation is in its infinite diversity.
Mr. Spock: And the ways our differences combine, to create meaning and beauty.
Heh...
If a "Massive Enemy Fleet" manages to get all the way to ESD, it won't matter whether the ships are inside or not.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Heh...
If a "Massive Enemy Fleet" manages to get all the way to ESD, it won't matter whether the ships are inside or not.
actually, it would; the protection of the station's armor plating gives any ships inside far more time than they would have otherwise to finish up last-minute repairs or bring weapons and shields online
it's the sci-fi version of mages hiding behind a line of big, burly warriors holding huge-as.s shields
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
What I forgot in my first posting was a few oddities here and there. For instance: You can shoot the "bridge window" of the Enterprise with a hand phaser. Seriously? Seriously?
In the context of when that happens, I do believe a hand phaser could "finish off" the window. Yes. I believe the prior "crash" may have weakened it juuuuuuust enough to allow a hand phaser the coup de grace.
Went to see it last night. Wow. I was not expecting it to be this good!
Don't get me wrong, it's not the best Star Trek film ever made (but then, I consider Generations to hold that title, so...), but it did something which is a welcome change from the first two Kelvin films: it felt like Star Trek.
It had that sense of wonder and optimism. It had the sense of camaraderie between the cast members (beyond Kirk/Spock/McCoy), which even some of the original films failed to capture. With Yorktown's violations of the Laws of physics not withstanding - and quite frankly we should be used to that by now as Star Trek fans - it was a great Star Trek film.
Okay, the solution to the swarm was a little cheesy, but in a good way I think (even if it does remind me of They Came from Mars, a movie which if I never have to watch again will be too soon!). It was also nice to see a female supporting cast member who didn't exist for Kirk to flirt with her. I liked the U.S.S. Franklin as well, and I also liked how they didn't try to change anything from the Enterprise era (besides updating the uniforms etc. as Federation instead of United Earth).
With that said, there were a few flaws: the pacing for the first part of the movie seemed a little... off... to me. I think if they slowed it down just a little it would have been a lot better, but that's just me. Also, Scotty states that the Franklin is the Federation's first Warp Four ship! Okay, technically this could be considered true since we know NX-01 was decommissioned before the Federation was founded (by maybe an hour) and we don't know the fate of the other NX-Class ships. Still, it seemed odd that they'd go with that line, since they must have realised the mistake.
All in all, if you're a Star Trek fan, regardless of whether you liked the first two Kelvin-verse films, I think you'll like this movie. It feels a lot like the franchise is moving back in the right direction.
1) A commodore can't offer you a Vice Admiral (three star) position.
You missed out the part where you can't promote someone past two grades! (Captain -> Commodore -> Rear Admiral -> Vice Admiral)
I read it as meaning a vice admiral position with lower case letters, rather than uppercase. As in, if Commodore Paris was admiral for Yorktown, that would make Kirk her XO as vice admiral. Similar to how a Lieutenant can be given the position of captain without being promoted to the rank of Captain. Admiral, Vice Admiral and Captain are roles as well as ranks (and the roles are not necessarily directly associated with the corresponding ranks).
Personally I don't think a trek film will ever be a 5/5
You guys voting 5's are waaaaaay too generous. Seriously.
For those voting 5/5 .... Are you comparing this "Only to other Trek movies" ?
Or Movies in general ?
Because there is no way this movie is perfect if you compare it to other great films..
Pulp fiction is like 4/5
Shawshank Redemtion is like a 4/5
Casablanca is like a 4/5
and ST Beyond...is a 5/5.... uhhhmmmmm no. LOL
I smell Fanboy.
If you're scoring films on an absolute scale you're doing it wrong.
Are you implying that a Sci-Fi flick can't be taken as seriously as other genres ?
Because I'd strongly disagree with that assertion.
Any story, movie, book, novel, play, whatever, are all based around the ancient Greek concept of Comedy & Tragedy.
Any film, no matter the genre is capable of delivering stunning irony, comedy and tragedy.
Every story worth telling is a subset or combination of the two.
So yes, one can indeed rate any movie on an absolute scale, (if this is what you're referring to when you say absolute scale).
No, I'm saying scoring films as wildly different as Star Trek Beyond and Pulp Fiction on the same scale and with the same criteria is pointless. When you review something you score it against things similar to it, be they previous entries in the series or other media like it. In this instance you'd score Star Trek compared to other Star Trek or sci-fi films. Also, saying those films are 4's so Beyond can't possibly be a 5 implies there's some ultimate truth in reviews, which is nonsense. All reviews are is matters of opinion. It's not a science.
Well if I'm comparing to other Trek, I'd bump it to 3.5 - 4.
And fair enough.
Again, still haven't seen it - but was both surprised and pleased to hear some colleagues at my workplace discussing this movie (and in a positive light too). These are NOT Trek fans; they are people who like to go to the cinema.
Sorry - whether the 'fan' element think it’s good or not notwithstanding, the fact that it appeals to a wider audience is a BIG win in my book.
^ Well said. I'm delighted to see this film getting such positive reviews. Goodbye JJTrek... welcome PeggTrek.
^^^
You do realize that JJ Abrams still Executive Produced the film right. He approved the story and gave input (much like say GR did during the run of TOS and the first 2 1/2 seasons of TNG.) It's still 'JJ Trek'. Just saying.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I never was a fan on the JJ Trek but he is right. It is Pegg Trek and Pegg is a Trekker. It shows. Kirk is Kirk once again. The chess player is back. Keeps his cool.
After 2 movies of him and crew acting the same way. I basically just decided its not worth watching. I'm not watching bad acting and horrible character development. Along with horrible story.
So, you have never fully watched TNG Seasons 1 or 2 - or the entirety of Star Trek:Voyager, eh?
(That's the only logical conclusion I can draw given your statement above.)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
1) A commodore can't offer you a Vice Admiral (three star) position.
You missed out the part where you can't promote someone past two grades! (Captain -> Commodore -> Rear Admiral -> Vice Admiral)
I read it as meaning a vice admiral position with lower case letters, rather than uppercase. As in, if Commodore Paris was admiral for Yorktown, that would make Kirk her XO as vice admiral. Similar to how a Lieutenant can be given the position of captain without being promoted to the rank of Captain. Admiral, Vice Admiral and Captain are roles as well as ranks (and the roles are not necessarily directly associated with the corresponding ranks).
Wouldn't it have been somebody really high up in Star Fleet who decided to make Kirk an Admiral and the Lady Commodore at Yorktown Station just happened to be the first "Commanding Officer" Kirk met after the promotion was decided upon?
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
1) A commodore can't offer you a Vice Admiral (three star) position.
You missed out the part where you can't promote someone past two grades! (Captain -> Commodore -> Rear Admiral -> Vice Admiral)
I read it as meaning a vice admiral position with lower case letters, rather than uppercase. As in, if Commodore Paris was admiral for Yorktown, that would make Kirk her XO as vice admiral. Similar to how a Lieutenant can be given the position of captain without being promoted to the rank of Captain. Admiral, Vice Admiral and Captain are roles as well as ranks (and the roles are not necessarily directly associated with the corresponding ranks).
Wouldn't it have been somebody really high up in Star Fleet who decided to make Kirk an Admiral and the Lady Commodore at Yorktown Station just happened to be the first "Commanding Officer" Kirk met after the promotion was decided upon?
1) A commodore can't offer you a Vice Admiral (three star) position.
You missed out the part where you can't promote someone past two grades! (Captain -> Commodore -> Rear Admiral -> Vice Admiral)
I read it as meaning a vice admiral position with lower case letters, rather than uppercase. As in, if Commodore Paris was admiral for Yorktown, that would make Kirk her XO as vice admiral. Similar to how a Lieutenant can be given the position of captain without being promoted to the rank of Captain. Admiral, Vice Admiral and Captain are roles as well as ranks (and the roles are not necessarily directly associated with the corresponding ranks).
Wouldn't it have been somebody really high up in Star Fleet who decided to make Kirk an Admiral and the Lady Commodore at Yorktown Station just happened to be the first "Commanding Officer" Kirk met after the promotion was decided upon?
That's what I figured as well. The way my mind filled in the blanks is like this: Yorktown vice admiral position is open, Commodore Paris is the station's interim commander, Kirk applies for the full-time position.
But of course that's just my headcanon, so I could be wrong.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I never was a fan on the JJ Trek but he is right. It is Pegg Trek and Pegg is a Trekker. It shows. Kirk is Kirk once again. The chess player is back. Keeps his cool.
After 2 movies of him and crew acting the same way. I basically just decided its not worth watching. I'm not watching bad acting and horrible character development. Along with horrible story.
So, you have never fully watched TNG Seasons 1 or 2 - or the entirety of Star Trek:Voyager, eh?
(That's the only logical conclusion I can draw given your statement above.)
The Motion Picture was better than what JJ brings out. Its bad when I turn it off when its not even half way through the movie. That is what I did on JJ's. Like Popeye says: I all I can stand and I can't stand no more.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Hey, they killed the JJprise so I'm happy. Hell, it could have been that followed by 90 minutes of Kirk, Spock and McCoy making out and I still would have been happy.
A much better film than previous efforts, but not quite perfect imo. Idris Elba was wasted in that really flat villain, a villain who had no development until the last 10 minutes. Right before the end, I had visions of him dragging himself off the floor, pushing Kirk out to safety and sacrificing himself to save the (IMO ugly as sin) station after a sudden change of heart where his old personality has started to re-emerge. Little things throughout the film could have pointed to the old, honourable warrior side of him not quite being dead and still popping up from time to time. Instead, we just got a "RAAAAAAARGH ME KILL YU DED NAO!" villain who had no rhyme, no reason, no development and no depth.
Other than the odd canon goof, that was my only major gripe. Good heavens, a JJverse film that was actually as good as the casting!
Comments
I don't know wether I should feel adressed here, but extrapolating that any form of criticism just exists because one wanted to find faults is questionable at best
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Because it was a visual spectacle and because it had a plot that didn't make you want to headbut things. But also because it felt like a film and not like a two hour TV episode.
I loved seeing and interacting with Yorktown in the Imax. I still don't think it fits in with the Federations aesthetics nor that the Federation could afford such a thing as it seems to take ST into a SW level of industrialisation.
Dress uniforms usually change when the duty ones do so it's very likely they have new ones now.
I dislike the close ups, shaky cam, zooms, and all those things, but the action is great. It really does add more stakes because you can see and feel the effects things can have instead of imagining them. Having the camera shake and all the cast run to one side of the bridge is all well and good but there is no tension as there was when the swarm first attacks. Every death and every person getting sucked into space adds to the chaos. It has a very war film feel to it because it's chaotic.
I think the issue comes from NX the prefix vs. NX the class. The NX-01 was referred to on displays as SS Enterprise suggesting that the NX on the hull was its class name rather than its registry. It's also possible the Franklin was renamed or re prefixed in the Romulan War even though it predates the NX.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I can't argue with that, it certainly was. It might not hit the right buttons with me. I also agree it felt like a film, but like a film too long in my opinion or at least one that put the emphasize on the wrong points. A show episode could have certainly handled the non-action parts way better.
I don't have Imax anywhere near and I can't watch 3D movies because I get sick, so maybe those visual playthings would be necessary to enjoy the movie more but I can't use them. But for the Yorktwon, as I said, it was of a goofy kind of awesome but like you I thought it was completely misplaced in this movie in this function. Why would the UFP build that, how, why is it a huge bowl of glass that can crack at any point, causing the vacuum of space to suck it dry? I felt very much reminded of Guardians on Nova Prime.
I hope so. Putting aside the "Starfleet issues new uniforms every odd week" trope, I liked them.
I see what it tried to show, but it was just too much for me. Too many minutes of chaos and kicking and explosions, couldn't they show just three instead of five people get sucked out, just four instead of six or so scenes of kamikaze ships crashing into the Enterprise, just five instead of 10 goons getting kicked? It didn't really do much for me especially since I missed extra time spend on the Franklin and Edison a lot.
I think this makes sense, the changed registry after UFP Starfleet's foundation and the NX not really being a registry at this point, but who knows. It's not something that really irks me. As opposed to bbeing able to shoot the bridge window with a hand phaser...
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Well remember in the first movie where it withstood the gravitational stress of the black hole without shattering. I figure that the reason Kirk is able to shoot it out in Beyond is because the structural integrity field is non functional.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
No, I'm saying scoring films as wildly different as Star Trek Beyond and Pulp Fiction on the same scale and with the same criteria is pointless. When you review something you score it against things similar to it, be they previous entries in the series or other media like it. In this instance you'd score Star Trek compared to other Star Trek or sci-fi films. Also, saying those films are 4's so Beyond can't possibly be a 5 implies there's some ultimate truth in reviews, which is nonsense. All reviews are is matters of opinion. It's not a science.
I'm going to ignore everything else you've said in support of this film or against it because this here is the kicker...
I'm guessing that, even though it's transparent aluminium it still has a SIF running through it. As the ships crashed and powerless the SIF is gone and all that's left is severely weakened material from the impact. It's metal as well so I assume it was also deformed by the impact, fracturing it perhaps. Kirk gambled a lot in guessing that it would shatter when he shot it but I don't think it's unreasonable to think that it would.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Yes, I somehow came to the same conclusion, but it still is odd. It's so thin and weird to just be able to shoot a hole into it and jump through it, even without forcefields. Mind you, that's not a stand or fall matter for the movie, just a nitpick.
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That might have something to do with the artificial gravity the station is producing - Earth doesn't need a glass ceiling to stop it from venting atmosphere, either, and they are able to simulate earth gravity, after all.
I agree it felt a bit weird for Federation architecture, and it definitely evoked a sense of Nova Prime.
I am not sure who is doing the SFX for the Kelvin Timeline movies, but they seem to like a certain visual style, and the stellar objects they make seem... unlikely.
Of course, anything in science fiction is as hard or resilient as required for the plot. But I think at least within Star Trek, the structural integrity field might be the reasonable explanation.
A bit stranger IMO was that apparently those drones following the saucer section seemed to risk burning up in atmosphere - but were able to withstand colliding and penetrating the hull of a starship?
Ultimately, the problem of sci-fi writers having no sense of scale or math strikes again.
It's not JJTrek. It's not PeggTrek. It's Star Trek, people.
After 2 movies of him and crew acting the same way. I basically just decided its not worth watching. I'm not watching bad acting and horrible character development. Along with horrible story.
After reading Targ's review. I'm glad I won't be seeing it. All 3 JJ Trek movies of now had a "Bad" Starfleet officer. 1st was KU Kirk, 2nd was Marcus, and now some old dude. They can't get an original story going.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Three in a row is enough. Just shows they don't have an good idea. Or in this case original. So they go back to the old bad Starfleet officer routine.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
KU Kirk was a bad officer, and he was in the main story. He wasn't the villain, however he still was the role of a bad officer. As most people who did what he pulled, more likely be behind bars.
I'm out of this one again. Since someone quoted me and got my attention. As I'm just letting the JJ Trek Fans talk it out. I'm reading, but I'm not getting involved. Unless someone brings it up.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Mr. Spock: And the ways our differences combine, to create meaning and beauty.
-Star Trek: Is There in Truth No Beauty? (1968)
Mr. Spock: And the ways our differences combine, to create meaning and beauty.
-Star Trek: Is There in Truth No Beauty? (1968)
If a "Massive Enemy Fleet" manages to get all the way to ESD, it won't matter whether the ships are inside or not.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
actually, it would; the protection of the station's armor plating gives any ships inside far more time than they would have otherwise to finish up last-minute repairs or bring weapons and shields online
it's the sci-fi version of mages hiding behind a line of big, burly warriors holding huge-as.s shields
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
In the context of when that happens, I do believe a hand phaser could "finish off" the window. Yes. I believe the prior "crash" may have weakened it juuuuuuust enough to allow a hand phaser the coup de grace.
life can be disappointing,
the only way you can enjoy this movie is to forget everything you know about star trek lore
who ever going to see it in the cinema
good luck and brace for bullshitt
live long and try not to think too much
Don't get me wrong, it's not the best Star Trek film ever made (but then, I consider Generations to hold that title, so...), but it did something which is a welcome change from the first two Kelvin films: it felt like Star Trek.
Okay, the solution to the swarm was a little cheesy, but in a good way I think (even if it does remind me of They Came from Mars, a movie which if I never have to watch again will be too soon!). It was also nice to see a female supporting cast member who didn't exist for Kirk to flirt with her. I liked the U.S.S. Franklin as well, and I also liked how they didn't try to change anything from the Enterprise era (besides updating the uniforms etc. as Federation instead of United Earth).
With that said, there were a few flaws: the pacing for the first part of the movie seemed a little... off... to me. I think if they slowed it down just a little it would have been a lot better, but that's just me. Also, Scotty states that the Franklin is the Federation's first Warp Four ship! Okay, technically this could be considered true since we know NX-01 was decommissioned before the Federation was founded (by maybe an hour) and we don't know the fate of the other NX-Class ships. Still, it seemed odd that they'd go with that line, since they must have realised the mistake.
All in all, if you're a Star Trek fan, regardless of whether you liked the first two Kelvin-verse films, I think you'll like this movie. It feels a lot like the franchise is moving back in the right direction.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
You missed out the part where you can't promote someone past two grades! (Captain -> Commodore -> Rear Admiral -> Vice Admiral)
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Well if I'm comparing to other Trek, I'd bump it to 3.5 - 4.
And fair enough.
^^^
You do realize that JJ Abrams still Executive Produced the film right. He approved the story and gave input (much like say GR did during the run of TOS and the first 2 1/2 seasons of TNG.) It's still 'JJ Trek'. Just saying.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
So, you have never fully watched TNG Seasons 1 or 2 - or the entirety of Star Trek:Voyager, eh?
(That's the only logical conclusion I can draw given your statement above.)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Wouldn't it have been somebody really high up in Star Fleet who decided to make Kirk an Admiral and the Lady Commodore at Yorktown Station just happened to be the first "Commanding Officer" Kirk met after the promotion was decided upon?
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
That's also a possibility.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
That's what I figured as well. The way my mind filled in the blanks is like this: Yorktown vice admiral position is open, Commodore Paris is the station's interim commander, Kirk applies for the full-time position.
But of course that's just my headcanon, so I could be wrong.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
The Motion Picture was better than what JJ brings out. Its bad when I turn it off when its not even half way through the movie. That is what I did on JJ's. Like Popeye says: I all I can stand and I can't stand no more.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
A much better film than previous efforts, but not quite perfect imo. Idris Elba was wasted in that really flat villain, a villain who had no development until the last 10 minutes. Right before the end, I had visions of him dragging himself off the floor, pushing Kirk out to safety and sacrificing himself to save the (IMO ugly as sin) station after a sudden change of heart where his old personality has started to re-emerge. Little things throughout the film could have pointed to the old, honourable warrior side of him not quite being dead and still popping up from time to time. Instead, we just got a "RAAAAAAARGH ME KILL YU DED NAO!" villain who had no rhyme, no reason, no development and no depth.
Other than the odd canon goof, that was my only major gripe. Good heavens, a JJverse film that was actually as good as the casting!