I just saw it today and I'd rate is among the top 3 Trek films in my opinion.
Brilliant action pieces, really nice nods to the rest of the franchise and some really great character & universe development along the way.
Bit's I really liked:
1) The nods to the other Trek films and series, Enterprise uniforms in the video log, Spock's photo, mention of the Xindi war, the giant green hand (which also appears in the end credits!), Kirk joking about things feeling episodic, Admiral Paris, relation to Tom Paris?
2) The "away team" uniforms were almost like something from STO, very cool.
3) The plot twist of who the bad guys are is very well done and I did not see that coming. I seriously thought we were going for some sort of pseudo-Borg nano-tech weapon for a while there.
4) The Enterprise getting smashed to bit was really quite emotional I though and really well done. The look on poor Scotty's face when he realizes they've had their nacelles cut off is quite well done, brings home just how weak the ship is to this new threat.
5) Nice to see that saucer separation is something possibly standard to SF vessels, it makes sense as it's clearly a means of saving the crew if the engines and core get blown to pieces and threaten the rest of the ship.
6) It was good to see that they didn't need to rehash old ideas or bring in one of the older original races like Klingon's to have a decent enemy in the film. Having something completely independent paid off well as they weren't held back.
The Franklin was a cool little ship and felt suitably "rustic" to be an older ship. The thing with it being mentioned as the first warp 4 vessel to me is not and issue. I like to think it truly was the first vessel capable of such a speed, predating the NX-01, perhaps before Starfleet even existed. Krall was in the MACO's during the whole Enterprise series to give some context to his story, during this time the Franklin is not a front line ship, being older and out of date.
Once the Xindi was is over the newly formed Starfleet give him a captain's position and recommissions and older ship, giving it a refit, as the war has left them short of ships. Hence why it both predates the NX and also has a registry number that is from after it too.
That assumes the Defiant had other command officers. The Defiants Command officers were Sisko and Worf, both of whom had assignments away from the Defiant. Dax also was directly given command by Admiral Ross, so any usual Command/Rank authority was superceeded by orders of the Admiral.
What really annoys me, is that after proving her ability to Captain the Defiant for possibly months on end, with major victories to her name, and being the defacto Captain while mining the Enterance to the wormhole, she didn't get promoted to Commander or preferably Captain of her own ship.
I honestly though Voyager would have been a much cooler show if Jadzia Dax had been Captain of Voyager instead of dying on DS9.
That assumes the Defiant had other command officers. The Defiants Command officers were Sisko and Worf, both of whom had assignments away from the Defiant. Dax also was directly given command by Admiral Ross, so any usual Command/Rank authority was superceeded by orders of the Admiral.
What really annoys me, is that after proving her ability to Captain the Defiant for possibly months on end, with major victories to her name, and being the defacto Captain while mining the Enterance to the wormhole, she didn't get promoted to Commander or preferably Captain of her own ship.
I honestly though Voyager would have been a much cooler show if Jadzia Dax had been Captain of Voyager instead of dying on DS9.
It's a reasonable assumption that the Defiant would have had other command-track officers aboard, of various ranks (not just commanding officers like Sisko and Worf (and as mentioned, Worf was shown (three times) as psychologically unfit for the position of commanding officer...) I agree, Admiral Ross' orders could supercede the usual channels, but arguably, it should not have done, and realisticaly, a command-track officer should have been assigned to command the Defiant
Initially, I did really like Jadzia, but around about season four, I started to find her very boring, and personally, I really enjoyed the introduction of Ezri, and I wish they'd introduced her sooner
That assumes the Defiant had other command officers. The Defiants Command officers were Sisko and Worf, both of whom had assignments away from the Defiant. Dax also was directly given command by Admiral Ross, so any usual Command/Rank authority was superceeded by orders of the Admiral.
What really annoys me, is that after proving her ability to Captain the Defiant for possibly months on end, with major victories to her name, and being the defacto Captain while mining the Enterance to the wormhole, she didn't get promoted to Commander or preferably Captain of her own ship.
I honestly though Voyager would have been a much cooler show if Jadzia Dax had been Captain of Voyager instead of dying on DS9.
It's a reasonable assumption that the Defiant would have had other command-track officers aboard, of various ranks (not just commanding officers like Sisko and Worf (and as mentioned, Worf was shown (three times) as psychologically unfit for the position of commanding officer...) I agree, Admiral Ross' orders could supercede the usual channels, but arguably, it should not have done, and realisticaly, a command-track officer should have been assigned to command the Defiant
Initially, I did really like Jadzia, but around about season four, I started to find her very boring, and personally, I really enjoyed the introduction of Ezri, and I wish they'd introduced her sooner
I always liked Jadzia, but she always seemed to behave all superior because of Dax's experience. Ezri's introduction was a welcome change of pace for me; I enjoyed seeing a Dax who wasn't so on top of it all, who was kind of vulnerable.
That and Nicole de Boer was (and remains) knockout gorgeous. Not downing on Terry Farrel of course, just saying...
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
That assumes the Defiant had other command officers. The Defiants Command officers were Sisko and Worf, both of whom had assignments away from the Defiant. Dax also was directly given command by Admiral Ross, so any usual Command/Rank authority was superceeded by orders of the Admiral.
What really annoys me, is that after proving her ability to Captain the Defiant for possibly months on end, with major victories to her name, and being the defacto Captain while mining the Enterance to the wormhole, she didn't get promoted to Commander or preferably Captain of her own ship.
I honestly though Voyager would have been a much cooler show if Jadzia Dax had been Captain of Voyager instead of dying on DS9.
It's a reasonable assumption that the Defiant would have had other command-track officers aboard, of various ranks (not just commanding officers like Sisko and Worf (and as mentioned, Worf was shown (three times) as psychologically unfit for the position of commanding officer...) I agree, Admiral Ross' orders could supercede the usual channels, but arguably, it should not have done, and realisticaly, a command-track officer should have been assigned to command the Defiant
Initially, I did really like Jadzia, but around about season four, I started to find her very boring, and personally, I really enjoyed the introduction of Ezri, and I wish they'd introduced her sooner
I always liked Jadzia, but she always seemed to behave all superior because of Dax's experience. Ezri's introduction was a welcome change of pace for me; I enjoyed seeing a Dax who wasn't so on top of it all, who was kind of vulnerable.
That and Nicole de Boer was (and remains) knockout gorgeous. Not downing on Terry Farrel of course, just saying...
I think for me, things got a bit boring when she essentially became Curzon Dax.2, and that's when I would have liked to see the change take place... I totally agree, Ezri's vulnerability and uncertainty were a refreshing change... And yes, totally agree, both still beautiful ladies
Nog wasn't senior officer in terms of position, he was only the chief engineer. He was indeed a senior officer in terms of rank, but as before, Watters was command track, so his training was what qualified him to be in command (and again, Plot Necessity meant that the command structure be what it was).
Nog should have watched Zulu and taken his lead from British Lieutenant John Chard... the engineer who took command at Rorke's Drift when there was an infantry lieutenant standing right next to him.
Nog wasn't senior officer in terms of position, he was only the chief engineer. He was indeed a senior officer in terms of rank, but as before, Watters was command track, so his training was what qualified him to be in command (and again, Plot Necessity meant that the command structure be what it was).
Nog should have watched Zulu and taken his lead from British Lieutenant John Chard... the engineer who took command at Rorke's Drift when there was an infantry lieutenant standing right next to him.
I like to think that post The Siege of AR-558 Nog would have had the retrospective worldly wisdom to see what was going on and would have handled the Valiant incident differently. His idealism about a career in Star Fleet would be tempered by his experiences and he'd have put Watters in his place.
It might be the wrong thing to do by the letter of the law... but it reinforces the "risk is part of the game" element that makes a good officer.
I like to think that post The Siege of AR-558 Nog would have had the retrospective worldly wisdom to see what was going on and would have handled the Valiant incident differently. His idealism about a career in Star Fleet would be tempered by his experiences and he'd have put Watters in his place.
It might be the wrong thing to do by the letter of the law... but it reinforces the "risk is part of the game" element that makes a good officer.
Absolutely... Nog is probably my favorite of any Star Trek character, in terms of the development and growth he went through. I think (Plot aside) that part of the reason Nog got sucked into the Valiant shenanigans, was his hero-worship of Red Squad from his time at the academy. Something else to bear in mind, was that Nog was given a field commission, rather than graduating the academy after four years training... At the time he and Jake encountered the Valiant, while he may have had an Ensign's pip on his collar, I'd still have to say that Watters was the more qualified to be in command (well, aside from the God Complex and stimulants issue )
I like to think that post The Siege of AR-558 Nog would have had the retrospective worldly wisdom to see what was going on and would have handled the Valiant incident differently. His idealism about a career in Star Fleet would be tempered by his experiences and he'd have put Watters in his place.
It might be the wrong thing to do by the letter of the law... but it reinforces the "risk is part of the game" element that makes a good officer.
Absolutely... Nog is probably my favorite of any Star Trek character, in terms of the development and growth he went through. I think (Plot aside) that part of the reason Nog got sucked into the Valiant shenanigans, was his hero-worship of Red Squad from his time at the academy. Something else to bear in mind, was that Nog was given a field commission, rather than graduating the academy after four years training... At the time he and Jake encountered the Valiant, while he may have had an Ensign's pip on his collar, I'd still have to say that Watters was the more qualified to be in command (well, aside from the God Complex and stimulants issue )
Yes, it reminds me of Picard's experiences in "Tapestry"as well. Making a contentious and completely inconvenient stand, especially if you have the high ground on moral and tactical reasoning (I'm not sure fistfighting with a Nausicaan qualifies there... but the point Q was making was that it was Picard's lack of caution that caused him to be noticed in other areas), can make all the difference in your shirt colour and your pips.
I like to think that post The Siege of AR-558 Nog would have had the retrospective worldly wisdom to see what was going on and would have handled the Valiant incident differently. His idealism about a career in Star Fleet would be tempered by his experiences and he'd have put Watters in his place.
It might be the wrong thing to do by the letter of the law... but it reinforces the "risk is part of the game" element that makes a good officer.
Absolutely... Nog is probably my favorite of any Star Trek character, in terms of the development and growth he went through. I think (Plot aside) that part of the reason Nog got sucked into the Valiant shenanigans, was his hero-worship of Red Squad from his time at the academy. Something else to bear in mind, was that Nog was given a field commission, rather than graduating the academy after four years training... At the time he and Jake encountered the Valiant, while he may have had an Ensign's pip on his collar, I'd still have to say that Watters was the more qualified to be in command (well, aside from the God Complex and stimulants issue )
Yes, it reminds me of Picard's experiences in "Tapestry"as well. Making a contentious and completely inconvenient stand, especially if you have the high ground on moral and tactical reasoning (I'm not sure fistfighting with a Nausicaan qualifies there... but the point Q was making was that it was Picard's lack of caution that caused him to be noticed in other areas), can make all the difference in your shirt colour and your pips.
That does of course, require one to have the high ground, which Picard often only had due to Plot Neccesity and Writer's Fiat In Descent, Doctor Crusher did a perfectly fine job of being in command of the Enterprise
the ignorance of the few who haven't even seen the movie, yet feel the need to give their opinion on it is astonishing. Message of Trek not received, but to hate for hate's sake.
I gave it a 4 out of 5, because the movie relies on the characters more than the plot...which is a very redeeming factor.
and the motivation of the villain is rather questionable.
the ignorance of the few who haven't even seen the movie, yet feel the need to give their opinion on it is astonishing.
It really is. Then they go cherrypicking nitpicks from other peoples' reviews and use it as justification to continue spouting their uneducated "it sucks" mantra. Yeah Beyond has its problems, but not even remotely as many as ID or '09, and quite a few less than some Prime films such as Insurrection or Final Frontier.
Seriously, if you can unironically watch and like Final Frontier, Beyond should not be.... beyond you, so to speak. Beyond's interactions between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy rank up there with some of the best.
Someones gotta keep things canon. Not seeing the JJTroll's doing it.
guess what, you do not get to decide what is canon and what isn't...
also, you are evading my statement, because not watching a movie and then rating it or even commenting on its content is the very textbook definition of ignorance.
No wonder you also hold a religious-like belief to what you consider is the "correct" Star Trek, since ignorance is a common trait found in over-zaelot religious people.
in other words, you are basically representing the "ISIS" of Star Trek
Someones gotta keep things canon. Not seeing the JJTroll's doing it.
guess what, you do not get to decide what is canon and what isn't...
also, you are evading my statement, because not watching a movie and then rating it or even commenting on its content is the very textbook definition of ignorance.
No wonder you also hold a religious-like belief to what you consider is the "correct" Star Trek, since ignorance is a common trait found in over-zaelot religious people.
in other words, you are basically representing the "ISIS" of Star Trek
I don't think that analogy is helpful in any way, shape or form and strays wildly into the territory of Godwin's Law.
One can hold a religious belief without being ignorant. One can be zealous without being lacking in tolerance and compassion.
Being isolationist about what you consider canon, does not mean that you are going to run into a cinema, and rip up the film reels and then commit acts of terror on the people who insist on watching it and other innocent bystanders who just happen to be in the cinema for other reasons and have no interest in Star Trek.
Such a comparison is inappropriate.
Look, I enjoy the Kelvin timeline films as distinct and separate interpretations/incarnations of Star Trek... they do not hamper my enjoyment of the Prime Timeline. I get that other people don't feel the same and yes, it does grate a bit when they go on about it endlessly... but lets not go down the road of personal attacks just because we can't agree. We're better than that aren't we?
Being isolationist about what you consider canon, does not mean that you are going to run into a cinema, and rip up the film reels and then commit acts of terror on the people who insist on watching it and other innocent bystanders who just happen to be in the cinema for other reasons and have no interest in Star Trek.
Such a comparison is inappropriate.
Inappropriate? Maybe. Definately exagurated...but for a reason.
But commenting on a film he hasn't even seen, and condescendingly telling everybody who liked it that they are wrong to like it is definately a step into that direction.
Who knows, there might be people who get just drunk enough and spot a JJ fanboy and beat him up for it. Such action develope from the same sentiment, which is founded in ignorance.
I'm well aware that we are all just keybord warriors here, but the sentiment is cultivated in such environments and can lead to more real consequences.
Futurama even joked about it, when Star Trek spawned a religion that tore the world appart because of different interpretations of Trek. So I'm not even the first to make the comparison to fundamentalist religious interpretations.
the ignorance of the few who haven't even seen the movie, yet feel the need to give their opinion on it is astonishing.
Someones gotta keep things canon. Not seeing the JJTroll's doing it.
If Star Trek canon errors get your goat, you must have HATED STII:TWoK. I mean:
- The writers forgot that Chekov wasn't ON the Enterprise during it's first season (he wasn't and they make mention in the second season that he just recently joined the crew) and was npot on the ship for the events in 'Space Seed' so Khan wpuld have to somehow be a psychic (or a time traveller to the near Star Trek future) to "never forget" Chekov's face.
- There's also Khan's line of "Two-Hundered years ago, I was a Prince..." when it's really way closer to three.
- Also, how are Khan's followers ALL Blonde, Blue-Eyed, and younger then him when his followers that were all on the S.S. Botany Bay from various ethnic groups (in fact if you look at the scenes where Khan is interacting with them, I don't see a Blonde in the bunch. Given Ceti Alpha VI exploded 6 months after they were left there - would someone really try and claim Khan's original followers mostly dies off - but all the women had Blonde children that Khan raised alone in the wasteland planet that was Ceti Alpha VI?
Then there's the (not canon breaking) but still ridiculous elements like:
- On approach to the Ceti Alpha system, the U.S.S. Reliant's sensors CAN'T tell that Ceti Alpha VI has been destroyed (or that there's a new debris field in the system; or that all the other planets in the system have had their orbits shifted, etc.)
- That Khan and his followers can breathe 'diathene' and other hamful gasses (they were only wearing cloaks and visors, no environment suits - and the Reliat science officer stated as they scanned, that the planet was incapable of supporting life - and Chekov and Terell did beam down in EVA suits.
- That (for whatever reason) Chekov and Terell couldn't contact the Reliant and beam out directly from the cargo container. Their communications must have worked as we had a scene of the Reliant Bridge of Kyle asking them to respond. HAD theyn beamed out, Khan would never have gotten his hands on them.
- Also, as the Enterprise is running into the Mutara Nebula - before it enters, Khan fires (and hits with) a Photon torpedo. Why is this relevant? IF the Reliant WAS in weapons range of the Enterprise, WHY wasn't Khan trying to disable/destroy the ship BEFORE it enters the Nebula?
Yep, with canon SO IMPORTANT among the "true Star Trek fans" - it's no wonder STII:TWoK is at the BOTTOM of most "true Star Trek fans" best Satr Trek movie lists...oh. wait...
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Being isolationist about what you consider canon, does not mean that you are going to run into a cinema, and rip up the film reels and then commit acts of terror on the people who insist on watching it and other innocent bystanders who just happen to be in the cinema for other reasons and have no interest in Star Trek.
Such a comparison is inappropriate.
Inappropriate? Maybe. Definately exagurated...but for a reason.
But commenting on a film he hasn't even seen, and condescendingly telling everybody who liked it that they are wrong to like it is definately a step into that direction.
Who knows, there might be people who get just drunk enough and spot a JJ fanboy and beat him up for it. Such action develope from the same sentiment, which is founded in ignorance.
I'm well aware that we are all just keybord warriors here, but the sentiment is cultivated in such environments and can lead to more real consequences.
Futurama even joked about it, when Star Trek spawned a religion that tore the world appart because of different interpretations of Trek. So I'm not even the first to make the comparison to fundamentalist religious interpretations.
And I'm sure you've noted the irony of this fan attitude, given Star Trek's general opinion to religious thought and rigid adherence to dogma (other than dogmatic adherence to the Prime Directive, I should say).
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
How about we spend more time and energy attacking/defending the MOVIE, instead of each other.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
How about we spend more time and energy attacking/defending the MOVIE, instead of each other.
You've been on these forums a while - do you really think the majority of this fanbase is capable of that kind of maturity?
I think at times all of us just get carried away and a moment of reflection can usually get the conversation back on track.
I also think that having the expectation of "things are always bad", isn't much of a help either.
Rather than being an enabler, when I'm being serious, I mostly try to engender my responses in such a way that doesn't entail confrontation, but leaves the subject of my post either laughing or confused.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
How about we spend more time and energy attacking/defending the MOVIE, instead of each other.
You've been on these forums a while - do you really think the majority of this fanbase is capable of that kind of maturity?
I think at times all of us just get carried away and a moment of reflection can usually get the conversation back on track.
I also think that having the expectation of "things are always bad", isn't much of a help either.
Rather than being an enabler, when I'm being serious, I mostly try to engender my responses in such a way that doesn't entail confrontation, but leaves the subject of my post either laughing or confused.
Oh, I do the same thing, except I usually remind people they're getting off-topic and that they're not actually helping their points. Sometimes it works, but I never honestly expect it to.
How about we spend more time and energy attacking/defending the MOVIE, instead of each other.
I think it would suffice if people avoided to get easily baited. There is no real point to discuss the movie with someone that didn't see it in the first place, unless he/she/it just wanted to hear details about it.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
How about we spend more time and energy attacking/defending the MOVIE, instead of each other.
When I do that, you go all banana on me.
Heh...
Your attacks are somewhat ingenuous though, since you HAVEN'T ACTUALLY SEEN THE DAMN MOVIE!
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Comments
Brilliant action pieces, really nice nods to the rest of the franchise and some really great character & universe development along the way.
Bit's I really liked:
1) The nods to the other Trek films and series, Enterprise uniforms in the video log, Spock's photo, mention of the Xindi war, the giant green hand (which also appears in the end credits!), Kirk joking about things feeling episodic, Admiral Paris, relation to Tom Paris?
2) The "away team" uniforms were almost like something from STO, very cool.
3) The plot twist of who the bad guys are is very well done and I did not see that coming. I seriously thought we were going for some sort of pseudo-Borg nano-tech weapon for a while there.
4) The Enterprise getting smashed to bit was really quite emotional I though and really well done. The look on poor Scotty's face when he realizes they've had their nacelles cut off is quite well done, brings home just how weak the ship is to this new threat.
5) Nice to see that saucer separation is something possibly standard to SF vessels, it makes sense as it's clearly a means of saving the crew if the engines and core get blown to pieces and threaten the rest of the ship.
6) It was good to see that they didn't need to rehash old ideas or bring in one of the older original races like Klingon's to have a decent enemy in the film. Having something completely independent paid off well as they weren't held back.
The Franklin was a cool little ship and felt suitably "rustic" to be an older ship. The thing with it being mentioned as the first warp 4 vessel to me is not and issue. I like to think it truly was the first vessel capable of such a speed, predating the NX-01, perhaps before Starfleet even existed. Krall was in the MACO's during the whole Enterprise series to give some context to his story, during this time the Franklin is not a front line ship, being older and out of date.
Once the Xindi was is over the newly formed Starfleet give him a captain's position and recommissions and older ship, giving it a refit, as the war has left them short of ships. Hence why it both predates the NX and also has a registry number that is from after it too.
What really annoys me, is that after proving her ability to Captain the Defiant for possibly months on end, with major victories to her name, and being the defacto Captain while mining the Enterance to the wormhole, she didn't get promoted to Commander or preferably Captain of her own ship.
I honestly though Voyager would have been a much cooler show if Jadzia Dax had been Captain of Voyager instead of dying on DS9.
Initially, I did really like Jadzia, but around about season four, I started to find her very boring, and personally, I really enjoyed the introduction of Ezri, and I wish they'd introduced her sooner
I always liked Jadzia, but she always seemed to behave all superior because of Dax's experience. Ezri's introduction was a welcome change of pace for me; I enjoyed seeing a Dax who wasn't so on top of it all, who was kind of vulnerable.
That and Nicole de Boer was (and remains) knockout gorgeous. Not downing on Terry Farrel of course, just saying...
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
Nog should have watched Zulu and taken his lead from British Lieutenant John Chard... the engineer who took command at Rorke's Drift when there was an infantry lieutenant standing right next to him.
"Don't fire b***** torpedoes... at me!"
It might be the wrong thing to do by the letter of the law... but it reinforces the "risk is part of the game" element that makes a good officer.
Yes, it reminds me of Picard's experiences in "Tapestry"as well. Making a contentious and completely inconvenient stand, especially if you have the high ground on moral and tactical reasoning (I'm not sure fistfighting with a Nausicaan qualifies there... but the point Q was making was that it was Picard's lack of caution that caused him to be noticed in other areas), can make all the difference in your shirt colour and your pips.
I gave it a 4 out of 5, because the movie relies on the characters more than the plot...which is a very redeeming factor.
and the motivation of the villain is rather questionable.
It really is. Then they go cherrypicking nitpicks from other peoples' reviews and use it as justification to continue spouting their uneducated "it sucks" mantra. Yeah Beyond has its problems, but not even remotely as many as ID or '09, and quite a few less than some Prime films such as Insurrection or Final Frontier.
Seriously, if you can unironically watch and like Final Frontier, Beyond should not be.... beyond you, so to speak. Beyond's interactions between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy rank up there with some of the best.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
guess what, you do not get to decide what is canon and what isn't...
also, you are evading my statement, because not watching a movie and then rating it or even commenting on its content is the very textbook definition of ignorance.
No wonder you also hold a religious-like belief to what you consider is the "correct" Star Trek, since ignorance is a common trait found in over-zaelot religious people.
in other words, you are basically representing the "ISIS" of Star Trek
I don't think that analogy is helpful in any way, shape or form and strays wildly into the territory of Godwin's Law.
One can hold a religious belief without being ignorant. One can be zealous without being lacking in tolerance and compassion.
Being isolationist about what you consider canon, does not mean that you are going to run into a cinema, and rip up the film reels and then commit acts of terror on the people who insist on watching it and other innocent bystanders who just happen to be in the cinema for other reasons and have no interest in Star Trek.
Such a comparison is inappropriate.
Look, I enjoy the Kelvin timeline films as distinct and separate interpretations/incarnations of Star Trek... they do not hamper my enjoyment of the Prime Timeline. I get that other people don't feel the same and yes, it does grate a bit when they go on about it endlessly... but lets not go down the road of personal attacks just because we can't agree. We're better than that aren't we?
Inappropriate? Maybe. Definately exagurated...but for a reason.
But commenting on a film he hasn't even seen, and condescendingly telling everybody who liked it that they are wrong to like it is definately a step into that direction.
Who knows, there might be people who get just drunk enough and spot a JJ fanboy and beat him up for it. Such action develope from the same sentiment, which is founded in ignorance.
I'm well aware that we are all just keybord warriors here, but the sentiment is cultivated in such environments and can lead to more real consequences.
Futurama even joked about it, when Star Trek spawned a religion that tore the world appart because of different interpretations of Trek. So I'm not even the first to make the comparison to fundamentalist religious interpretations.
@askray @jodarkrider
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
If Star Trek canon errors get your goat, you must have HATED STII:TWoK. I mean:
- The writers forgot that Chekov wasn't ON the Enterprise during it's first season (he wasn't and they make mention in the second season that he just recently joined the crew) and was npot on the ship for the events in 'Space Seed' so Khan wpuld have to somehow be a psychic (or a time traveller to the near Star Trek future) to "never forget" Chekov's face.
- There's also Khan's line of "Two-Hundered years ago, I was a Prince..." when it's really way closer to three.
- Also, how are Khan's followers ALL Blonde, Blue-Eyed, and younger then him when his followers that were all on the S.S. Botany Bay from various ethnic groups (in fact if you look at the scenes where Khan is interacting with them, I don't see a Blonde in the bunch. Given Ceti Alpha VI exploded 6 months after they were left there - would someone really try and claim Khan's original followers mostly dies off - but all the women had Blonde children that Khan raised alone in the wasteland planet that was Ceti Alpha VI?
Then there's the (not canon breaking) but still ridiculous elements like:
- On approach to the Ceti Alpha system, the U.S.S. Reliant's sensors CAN'T tell that Ceti Alpha VI has been destroyed (or that there's a new debris field in the system; or that all the other planets in the system have had their orbits shifted, etc.)
- That Khan and his followers can breathe 'diathene' and other hamful gasses (they were only wearing cloaks and visors, no environment suits - and the Reliat science officer stated as they scanned, that the planet was incapable of supporting life - and Chekov and Terell did beam down in EVA suits.
- That (for whatever reason) Chekov and Terell couldn't contact the Reliant and beam out directly from the cargo container. Their communications must have worked as we had a scene of the Reliant Bridge of Kyle asking them to respond. HAD theyn beamed out, Khan would never have gotten his hands on them.
- Also, as the Enterprise is running into the Mutara Nebula - before it enters, Khan fires (and hits with) a Photon torpedo. Why is this relevant? IF the Reliant WAS in weapons range of the Enterprise, WHY wasn't Khan trying to disable/destroy the ship BEFORE it enters the Nebula?
Yep, with canon SO IMPORTANT among the "true Star Trek fans" - it's no wonder STII:TWoK is at the BOTTOM of most "true Star Trek fans" best Satr Trek movie lists...oh. wait...
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
And I'm sure you've noted the irony of this fan attitude, given Star Trek's general opinion to religious thought and rigid adherence to dogma (other than dogmatic adherence to the Prime Directive, I should say).
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
You've been on these forums a while - do you really think the majority of this fanbase is capable of that kind of maturity?
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
I also think that having the expectation of "things are always bad", isn't much of a help either.
Rather than being an enabler, when I'm being serious, I mostly try to engender my responses in such a way that doesn't entail confrontation, but leaves the subject of my post either laughing or confused.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Oh, I do the same thing, except I usually remind people they're getting off-topic and that they're not actually helping their points. Sometimes it works, but I never honestly expect it to.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Heh...
Your attacks are somewhat ingenuous though, since you HAVEN'T ACTUALLY SEEN THE DAMN MOVIE!
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion