It's amusing to me that the two people here most resistant to Beyond wrote "reviews" that fail in pretty much all the same ways. Crash at least corrected it with a clear-headed viewing and, much to my surprise, not only rated it a 3, but admitted he considered a 4 if it hadn't been for a certain elements bugging him. I would have expected him to give it a 2, honestly.
I'm sorry, but after I couldn't handle 2009 with all the bad acting, horrible story. I may have enjoyed the new series. I kinda could got by with the different Tech used. I didn't feel like watching some snob brat with Captain Entitlement as a name running around. Then after I saw the write up on Darkness, it was a Star Trek II clone. So I'm like if I want to see Star Trek II, I rather watch the original. Beyond would be no different. Same Captain Entitlement snob brat, same crappy acting and horrible story.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Into Darkness is nothing like TWoK in any way shape or form. The single homage (or ham fisted attempt at such) was the Warp Core realignment and subsequent death followed by immediate magical resurrection.
There is no S31 in TWoK, no impending war with the Klingons, no Marcus, and no Vengeance. Nothing about Harrison resembles anything in TWoK in any way. He has more of a relationship with Spock than he does Kirk. Hell, Harrison isn't even the primary antagonist, he's the guy who designs Marcus' ship then kills him for his abuse of Harrison and his crew. No Genesis, no side plot with Kirk fearing growing up.
You've obviously not watched ID, only read the synopsis as you have with Beyond.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Into Darkness is nothing like TWoK in any way shape or form. The single homage (or ham fisted attempt at such) was the Warp Core realignment and subsequent death followed by immediate magical resurrection.
There is no S31 in TWoK, no impending war with the Klingons, no Marcus, and no Vengeance. Nothing about Harrison resembles anything in TWoK in any way. He has more of a relationship with Spock than he does Kirk. Hell, Harrison isn't even the primary antagonist, he's the guy who designs Marcus' ship then kills him for his abuse of Harrison and his crew. No Genesis, no side plot with Kirk fearing growing up.
You've obviously not watched ID, only read the synopsis as you have with Beyond.
True, Khan isn't even remotely the same. In TWoK, his much touted superhuman intelligence amounted to him quoting Moby TRIBBLE and Paradise Lost. He was also very set on revenge against Kirk, and that worked against him. For instance, Kirk easily baits him into the nebula, where Kirk's experience gives him the advantage. And I'm still annoyed that Khan actually fell for the "repair estimates" trick.
In ID, however, he has none of these problems. He keeps a clear head throughout the movie, and it's only when he has already been defeated that he loses it. His only mistake was underestimating how ruthless or deceptive Spock could be.
TBH, I think people view TWoK through some massive nostalgia filters. Sure Khan was ruthless, and there was that "I remember that guy!" factor. But he was imo kinda dumb.
*runs for cover*
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
Into Darkness is nothing like TWoK in any way shape or form. The single homage (or ham fisted attempt at such) was the Warp Core realignment and subsequent death followed by immediate magical resurrection.
There is no S31 in TWoK, no impending war with the Klingons, no Marcus, and no Vengeance. Nothing about Harrison resembles anything in TWoK in any way. He has more of a relationship with Spock than he does Kirk. Hell, Harrison isn't even the primary antagonist, he's the guy who designs Marcus' ship then kills him for his abuse of Harrison and his crew. No Genesis, no side plot with Kirk fearing growing up.
You've obviously not watched ID, only read the synopsis as you have with Beyond.
Star Trek II - Khan * Star Trek Darkness - Khan
Yep both are in it. Same Khan with super strength, etc.
Star Trek II - A main character gets killed in Engineering * Darkness - A main character gets killed in Engineering
Okay more of the same, just the different character.
Star Trek II - They fight Khan and used Khannnn * Darkness - They fight Khan and used Khannnnn
Yep more of the same.
Star Trek II - Dr Marcus * Darkness - Marcus
Yay we have the same woman in it too. More of the same.
Star Trek III - Main character is brought back from dead * Darkness - Main character is brought back from dead.
Okay they took a little from III, but still the same.
Star Trek II - Enterprise gets torn up. *Darkness - Enterprise gets torn up.
Yay more of the same.
Need I need to say more. A copy of each other. Why bother watching a reboot of the same movie.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Star Trek II - A main character gets killed in Engineering * Darkness - A main character gets killed in Engineering
Okay more of the same, just the different character.
Yes, just like Nemesis. So minus one for not calling ID a rip off of Nemesis.
Star Trek II - Dr Marcus * Darkness - Marcus
Yay we have the same woman in it too. More of the same.
Both Generations and Nemesis have Worf in = Nemesis is a rip off of Generations. I don't think you understand how characters in film franchises work. So minus another point for stupidity.
Star Trek III - Main character is brought back from dead * Darkness - Main character is brought back from dead.
Okay they took a little from III, but still the same.
Oh look, something not even from TWoK you think they're copying from it, minus one point for going agains your own ridiculous premise.
Need I need to say more. A copy of each other. Why bother watching a reboot of the same movie.
Yes, please say more, maybe make real argument this time. Show me Marcus in TWoK please. Show me Genesis in ID. Show me the impending Klingon-Federation war in TWoK. Show me an age fearing Kirk in ID. You know, actual plot points not similarities that maybe make up 6 minutes of the film at most. Also, try watching the film rather than just reading about it, you might get your questions answered.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Yes, please say more, maybe make real argument this time. Show me Marcus in TWoK please. Show me Genesis in ID. Show me the impending Klingon-Federation war in TWoK. Show me an age fearing Kirk in ID. You know, actual plot points not similarities that maybe make up 6 minutes of the film at most. Also, try watching the film rather than just reading about it, you might get your questions answered.
Yes, please say more, maybe make real argument this time. Show me Marcus in TWoK please. Show me Genesis in ID. Show me the impending Klingon-Federation war in TWoK. Show me an age fearing Kirk in ID. You know, actual plot points not similarities that maybe make up 6 minutes of the film at most. Also, try watching the film rather than just reading about it, you might get your questions answered.
Go watch some Trek movies. Then come back to me. Bottom line, Darkness is a Trek II reboot. Nothing more.
Oh look, you've addressed nothing except the fact the character is in both films, a point by the way, I did nothing to refute because it's meaningless. Then followed up by an attempt to reverse the debate as though I was the one missing crucial evidence by not watching the films.
If you're going to talk about something (a film in this case) actually make sure you watch the thing and don't just rely on synopses to formulate an argument. If it was a show it might be different, it's time consuming to watch several hundred hours of episodes, but a two hour film is not hard to watch.
Bottomest line the two films share some of the characters and a broken engine fixed with sacrifice and that's all.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Oh look, you've addressed nothing except the fact the character is in both films, a point by the way, I did nothing to refute because it's meaningless. Then followed up by an attempt to reverse the debate as though I was the one missing crucial evidence by not watching the films.
If you're going to talk about something (a film in this case) actually make sure you watch the thing and don't just rely on synopses to formulate an argument. If it was a show it might be different, it's time consuming to watch several hundred hours of episodes, but a two hour film is not hard to watch.
Bottomest line the two films share some of the characters and a broken engine fixed with sacrifice and that's all.
You asked show me Marcus, where I stated both films had her. Seems you forgot all about the Star Trek II Marcus, since they redid Star Trek II to make it into Darkness. At least that is how your head canon works.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Oh look, you've addressed nothing except the fact the character is in both films, a point by the way, I did nothing to refute because it's meaningless. Then followed up by an attempt to reverse the debate as though I was the one missing crucial evidence by not watching the films.
If you're going to talk about something (a film in this case) actually make sure you watch the thing and don't just rely on synopses to formulate an argument. If it was a show it might be different, it's time consuming to watch several hundred hours of episodes, but a two hour film is not hard to watch.
Bottomest line the two films share some of the characters and a broken engine fixed with sacrifice and that's all.
You asked show me Marcus, where I stated both films had her. Seems you forgot all about the Star Trek II Marcus, since they redid Star Trek II to make it into Darkness. At least that is how your head canon works.
Admiral Marcus you plank. Not Carol. Are you really that daft?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Oh look, you've addressed nothing except the fact the character is in both films, a point by the way, I did nothing to refute because it's meaningless. Then followed up by an attempt to reverse the debate as though I was the one missing crucial evidence by not watching the films.
If you're going to talk about something (a film in this case) actually make sure you watch the thing and don't just rely on synopses to formulate an argument. If it was a show it might be different, it's time consuming to watch several hundred hours of episodes, but a two hour film is not hard to watch.
Bottomest line the two films share some of the characters and a broken engine fixed with sacrifice and that's all.
You asked show me Marcus, where I stated both films had her. Seems you forgot all about the Star Trek II Marcus, since they redid Star Trek II to make it into Darkness. At least that is how your head canon works.
Admiral Marcus you plank. Not Carol. Are you really that daft?
I was talking about Carol. You didn't read it right. Read it again.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Oh look, you've addressed nothing except the fact the character is in both films, a point by the way, I did nothing to refute because it's meaningless. Then followed up by an attempt to reverse the debate as though I was the one missing crucial evidence by not watching the films.
If you're going to talk about something (a film in this case) actually make sure you watch the thing and don't just rely on synopses to formulate an argument. If it was a show it might be different, it's time consuming to watch several hundred hours of episodes, but a two hour film is not hard to watch.
Bottomest line the two films share some of the characters and a broken engine fixed with sacrifice and that's all.
You asked show me Marcus, where I stated both films had her. Seems you forgot all about the Star Trek II Marcus, since they redid Star Trek II to make it into Darkness. At least that is how your head canon works.
Admiral Marcus you plank. Not Carol. Are you really that daft?
I was talking about Carol. You didn't read it right. Read it again.
And he was asking you to point out Admiral Marcus in TWoK. Don't accuse someone else of not reading what you posted properly when you didn't read what they posted properly.
In reference to Carol Marcus, there is literally no romance between Kirk and Marcus in Into Darkness, unlike The Wrath of Khan where they're old flames.
Into Darkness had many problems, but it was not a rehash of TWoK. Plot-wise, they're completely different movies. Everything you've pointed out represent (poorly-executed) references to TWoK. Khan isn't even the main villain of Into Darkness, Admiral Marcus is (something you'd know if you'd actually watched the movie). 'To Boldly Go' (ENT) featured events and characters from 'Pegasus' (TNG). Was that a rehash of Pegasus? No, what it featured from Pegasus were references to the episodes (albeit far better-executed than Into Darkness).
And he was asking you to point out Admiral Marcus in TWoK. Don't accuse someone else of not reading what you posted properly when you didn't read what they posted properly.
Incorrect. I told about Carol Marcus saying they both was in there. As I was going through telling how similar the films was. He said: Show me Marcus in TWoK please He didn't specify. And then got angry, when he was the one didn't ask the right question.
From that I refuse to talk to him anymore over this topic. I won't play any more of his games.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I'd give it a 4 but.........to many WTF's, a motorbike that's been siting around in the Franklin with a full fuel tank that held intact petrol not going anywhere for 100 years that starts up with most likely stale fuel. I wish I had a lawnmower like that.
I highly doubt gas lasting that long. But depending on the amount. Gas usually starts to die in like a month or so. After a while it will turn in to a gel type substance. Then you have no choice to but clean or replace your fuel system including the tank. Even Diesel fuel does this and at time can actually get an algae type stuff growing in it. The offering of bio-fuel here in the States. Its even worse. It can actually make grain of sand type particles in your tank. I know, I have cleaned out my lawn mower fuel system twice. Now I have to either find gas that don't have that junk in it, or add a remover from buying additives.
This is the part where I'm now starting to have issues with the "Walking Dead" series. Its been like 5+ years since it started. Most of the gas would be dead by now. So in reality they would all be walking.
This is another issue I had with JJ Trek. By then they should been far far away from that kind of fuel.
Maybe the crew of the Franklin were familiar with the Minbari.
It would have benefited from not being a Star Trek film. It was a well paced and straightforward action-adventure. It was a bit dull and predictable subjectively, but there were certainly objective merits and it's easy to see how it can be well received. The niggles like the Franklin and stuff are reasons it would have been better to me if it werent for franchise association and my inability to turn my brain off. Equally had the new films been a hard reboot it would have been better. I get that changing timelines changes the past too but I feel any links to the original timeline (even Spock honestly) are best considered coincidental and everything about the reboot films left to themselves without there being any direct links. My rating is low based on subjective opinion (that sped-up construction scene made me cringe) but it's quite an improvement on this timeline's other offerings and I can certainly see how people could love it. Although I will never even dare to deny Shohreh Aghdashloo wasn't wonderful in this film.
It would have benefited from not being a Star Trek film. It was a well paced and straightforward action-adventure. It was a bit dull and predictable subjectively, but there were certainly objective merits and it's easy to see how it can be well received. The niggles like the Franklin and stuff are reasons it would have been better to me if it werent for franchise association and my inability to turn my brain off. Equally had the new films been a hard reboot it would have been better. I get that changing timelines changes the past too but I feel any links to the original timeline (even Spock honestly) are best considered coincidental and everything about the reboot films left to themselves without there being any direct links. My rating is low based on subjective opinion (that sped-up construction scene made me cringe) but it's quite an improvement on this timeline's other offerings and I can certainly see how people could love it. Although I will never even dare to deny Shohreh Aghdashloo wasn't wonderful in this film.
The "Past" before the Kelvin Incident, was not changed because of that same incident.
Supposedly, both universes were pretty much alike up to the point where Nero crosses over, then things started to change.
(though there seems to be a lot of argumentative discussion of this fact among fans)
There are plenty of ways to reconcile the alterations/differences, just by using the TV show ENTERPRISE and/or the Trek movie First Contact, but sometimes the acrimony of certain fans toward the JJ-Trek movies trumps all.
<shrug>
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
The "Past" before the Kelvin Incident, was not changed because of that same incident.
Supposedly, both universes were pretty much alike up to the point where Nero crosses over, then things started to change.
(though there seems to be a lot of argumentative discussion of this fact among fans)
But that unfortunately leaves the plots holes of the Franklin and why a 24th century ship uses Kelvin timeline stardates. I just think they should be left to their own devices, merits and warts.
The "Past" before the Kelvin Incident, was not changed because of that same incident.
Supposedly, both universes were pretty much alike up to the point where Nero crosses over, then things started to change.
(though there seems to be a lot of argumentative discussion of this fact among fans)
But that unfortunately leaves the plots holes of the Franklin and why a 24th century ship uses Kelvin timeline stardates. I just think they should be left to their own devices, merits and warts.
There are no plot holes relating to the Franklin and I don't even get where you're going with the the stardate thing? What's a KT Stardate?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
The "Past" before the Kelvin Incident, was not changed because of that same incident.
Supposedly, both universes were pretty much alike up to the point where Nero crosses over, then things started to change.
(though there seems to be a lot of argumentative discussion of this fact among fans)
But that unfortunately leaves the plots holes of the Franklin and why a 24th century ship uses Kelvin timeline stardates. I just think they should be left to their own devices, merits and warts.
There are no plot holes relating to the Franklin and I don't even get where you're going with the the stardate thing? What's a KT Stardate?
I think he's referring to when Robau tells Ayel that the stardate is "twenty-two thirty-three zero four." Sure it's the Earth year A.D. 2233, but that's not the original stardate system from TOS. I figure since the Kelvin was pre-TOS, they used the Earth year, and switched to "stardates" later.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
There are no plot holes relating to the Franklin and I don't even get where you're going with the the stardate thing? What's a KT Stardate?
It was called the first warp 4 vessel and was referred to as post Romulan war, that's a pretty big hole.
And yeah as metalstickman says they use use the year and 2 digits as their stardates throughout which is neither TOS nor TNG's method and then the Jellyfish says it was commisioned on "stardate 2387" which is the Kelvin timeline's way of using stardates.
There are no plot holes relating to the Franklin and I don't even get where you're going with the the stardate thing? What's a KT Stardate?
It was called the first warp 4 vessel and was referred to as post Romulan war, that's a pretty big hole.
And yeah as metalstickman says they use use the year and 2 digits as their stardates throughout which is neither TOS nor TNG's method and then the Jellyfish says it was commisioned on "stardate 2387" which is the Kelvin timeline's way of using stardates.
They called it the Federation's first Warp 4 vessel. The NX-01 was decommissioned (by a matter of hours) before the Federation Charter was signed, so that's technically true.
They called it the Federation's first Warp 4 vessel. The NX-01 was decommissioned (by a matter of hours) before the Federation Charter was signed, so that's technically true.
Haha that's a bit of a stretch but a creative argument.
They called it the Federation's first Warp 4 vessel. The NX-01 was decommissioned (by a matter of hours) before the Federation Charter was signed, so that's technically true.
Haha that's a bit of a stretch but a creative argument.
Hey, it's not the first time Star Trek's narrowly avoided breaking its own continuity because we grasp at straws to explain them.
It does also sorta depend on how you determine the nature of Starfleet pre- and post-Federation Founding. Many here would argue they're two separate organisations, others would say ENT Starfleet (or UESPA) became the Federation Starfleet, and others still would say Starfleet is still UESPA (myself included) and managed by Earth, but simply happens to be the best-equipped Federation 'military' force to respond to threats. If you subscribe to either of the first two theories, then the statement about the Franklin can also be explained as it being the first Warp 4 ship of the 'new' Starfleet.
It does also sorta depend on how you determine the nature of Starfleet pre- and post-Federation Founding. Many here would argue they're two separate organisations, others would say ENT Starfleet (or UESPA) became the Federation Starfleet, and others still would say Starfleet is still UESPA (myself included) and managed by Earth, but simply happens to be the best-equipped Federation 'military' force to respond to threats. If you subscribe to either of the first two theories, then the statement about the Franklin can also be explained as it being the first Warp 4 ship of the 'new' Starfleet.
I think they said the Franklin fought the Romulans. Although it may have just been the captain that served in the war, I can't remember 100% but yeah I think Earth Starfleet just sort of evolved into Federation Starfleet. Maybe the MACOs still exist as Earth's exclusive forces just like there's still a Vulcan High Command (yeah in ENT it was dissolved but one of Seven's personalities referred to Vulcan High Command so presumably it was re-organised, now I'm the one grasping at straws)
The "Past" before the Kelvin Incident, was not changed because of that same incident.
Supposedly, both universes were pretty much alike up to the point where Nero crosses over, then things started to change.
(though there seems to be a lot of argumentative discussion of this fact among fans)
But that unfortunately leaves the plots holes of the Franklin and why a 24th century ship uses Kelvin timeline stardates. I just think they should be left to their own devices, merits and warts.
There are no plot holes relating to the Franklin and I don't even get where you're going with the the stardate thing? What's a KT Stardate?
I think he's referring to when Robau tells Ayel that the stardate is "twenty-two thirty-three zero four." Sure it's the Earth year A.D. 2233, but that's not the original stardate system from TOS. I figure since the Kelvin was pre-TOS, they used the Earth year, and switched to "stardates" later.
There are no plot holes relating to the Franklin and I don't even get where you're going with the the stardate thing? What's a KT Stardate?
It was called the first warp 4 vessel and was referred to as post Romulan war, that's a pretty big hole.
And yeah as metalstickman says they use use the year and 2 digits as their stardates throughout which is neither TOS nor TNG's method and then the Jellyfish says it was commisioned on "stardate 2387" which is the Kelvin timeline's way of using stardates.
Two date systems, one is the the year which ENT used as a stardate (and the Kelvin as well) and which it's possible the Vulcans still use in 2387. The other is the standard stardate system in use from after the Kelvin's time.
As for the Franklin, it sounds to me like it was the first warp four ship that was later commissioned into the Federation. As Earth was part of the Federation it's a shared glory type thing wrapped in a figure of speech. It's still done now to refer to things are belonging to a nation or the like that exists not but that didn't back when the thing happened.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Why are you arguing about the KT films with someone who has proudly boasted elsewhere that he has not seen them, and refuses to do so?
Isn't that part of the raison d'être of Trekkies?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
It does also sorta depend on how you determine the nature of Starfleet pre- and post-Federation Founding. Many here would argue they're two separate organisations, others would say ENT Starfleet (or UESPA) became the Federation Starfleet, and others still would say Starfleet is still UESPA (myself included) and managed by Earth, but simply happens to be the best-equipped Federation 'military' force to respond to threats. If you subscribe to either of the first two theories, then the statement about the Franklin can also be explained as it being the first Warp 4 ship of the 'new' Starfleet.
I think they said the Franklin fought the Romulans. Although it may have just been the captain that served in the war, I can't remember 100% but yeah I think Earth Starfleet just sort of evolved into Federation Starfleet. Maybe the MACOs still exist as Earth's exclusive forces just like there's still a Vulcan High Command (yeah in ENT it was dissolved but one of Seven's personalities referred to Vulcan High Command so presumably it was re-organised, now I'm the one grasping at straws)
Putting a spoiler for those who haven't seen the film yet.
It was just the Captain: he'd been a MACO before the Federation was founded and MACO was disbanded.
Comments
I'm sorry, but after I couldn't handle 2009 with all the bad acting, horrible story. I may have enjoyed the new series. I kinda could got by with the different Tech used. I didn't feel like watching some snob brat with Captain Entitlement as a name running around. Then after I saw the write up on Darkness, it was a Star Trek II clone. So I'm like if I want to see Star Trek II, I rather watch the original. Beyond would be no different. Same Captain Entitlement snob brat, same crappy acting and horrible story.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
There is no S31 in TWoK, no impending war with the Klingons, no Marcus, and no Vengeance. Nothing about Harrison resembles anything in TWoK in any way. He has more of a relationship with Spock than he does Kirk. Hell, Harrison isn't even the primary antagonist, he's the guy who designs Marcus' ship then kills him for his abuse of Harrison and his crew. No Genesis, no side plot with Kirk fearing growing up.
You've obviously not watched ID, only read the synopsis as you have with Beyond.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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True, Khan isn't even remotely the same. In TWoK, his much touted superhuman intelligence amounted to him quoting Moby TRIBBLE and Paradise Lost. He was also very set on revenge against Kirk, and that worked against him. For instance, Kirk easily baits him into the nebula, where Kirk's experience gives him the advantage. And I'm still annoyed that Khan actually fell for the "repair estimates" trick.
In ID, however, he has none of these problems. He keeps a clear head throughout the movie, and it's only when he has already been defeated that he loses it. His only mistake was underestimating how ruthless or deceptive Spock could be.
TBH, I think people view TWoK through some massive nostalgia filters. Sure Khan was ruthless, and there was that "I remember that guy!" factor. But he was imo kinda dumb.
*runs for cover*
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
Star Trek II - Khan * Star Trek Darkness - Khan
Yep both are in it. Same Khan with super strength, etc.
Star Trek II - A main character gets killed in Engineering * Darkness - A main character gets killed in Engineering
Okay more of the same, just the different character.
Star Trek II - They fight Khan and used Khannnn * Darkness - They fight Khan and used Khannnnn
Yep more of the same.
Star Trek II - Dr Marcus * Darkness - Marcus
Yay we have the same woman in it too. More of the same.
Star Trek III - Main character is brought back from dead * Darkness - Main character is brought back from dead.
Okay they took a little from III, but still the same.
Star Trek II - Enterprise gets torn up. *Darkness - Enterprise gets torn up.
Yay more of the same.
Need I need to say more. A copy of each other. Why bother watching a reboot of the same movie.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Other than sharing a name Harrison and Khan are nothing alike so minus one point for your attempt to make it seem like either film is related.
Yes, just like Nemesis. So minus one for not calling ID a rip off of Nemesis.
That's the same point as above not a separate one so minus one point for splitting your nitpicking down frame by frame.
Both Generations and Nemesis have Worf in = Nemesis is a rip off of Generations. I don't think you understand how characters in film franchises work. So minus another point for stupidity.
Oh look, something not even from TWoK you think they're copying from it, minus one point for going agains your own ridiculous premise.
Oh look, you've described every single ST film except IV. Minus 12 points for pretending it's an example of ID being the same films as TWoK.
Yes, please say more, maybe make real argument this time. Show me Marcus in TWoK please. Show me Genesis in ID. Show me the impending Klingon-Federation war in TWoK. Show me an age fearing Kirk in ID. You know, actual plot points not similarities that maybe make up 6 minutes of the film at most. Also, try watching the film rather than just reading about it, you might get your questions answered.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Meet Carol Marcus: Star Trek II
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Carol_Marcus
Meet Carol Marcus: Darkness
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Carol_Marcus_(alternate_reality)
Go watch some Trek movies. Then come back to me. Bottom line, Darkness is a Trek II reboot. Nothing more.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Oh look, you've addressed nothing except the fact the character is in both films, a point by the way, I did nothing to refute because it's meaningless. Then followed up by an attempt to reverse the debate as though I was the one missing crucial evidence by not watching the films.
If you're going to talk about something (a film in this case) actually make sure you watch the thing and don't just rely on synopses to formulate an argument. If it was a show it might be different, it's time consuming to watch several hundred hours of episodes, but a two hour film is not hard to watch.
Bottomest line the two films share some of the characters and a broken engine fixed with sacrifice and that's all.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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You asked show me Marcus, where I stated both films had her. Seems you forgot all about the Star Trek II Marcus, since they redid Star Trek II to make it into Darkness. At least that is how your head canon works.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Admiral Marcus you plank. Not Carol. Are you really that daft?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I was talking about Carol. You didn't read it right. Read it again.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
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And he was asking you to point out Admiral Marcus in TWoK. Don't accuse someone else of not reading what you posted properly when you didn't read what they posted properly.
In reference to Carol Marcus, there is literally no romance between Kirk and Marcus in Into Darkness, unlike The Wrath of Khan where they're old flames.
Into Darkness had many problems, but it was not a rehash of TWoK. Plot-wise, they're completely different movies. Everything you've pointed out represent (poorly-executed) references to TWoK. Khan isn't even the main villain of Into Darkness, Admiral Marcus is (something you'd know if you'd actually watched the movie). 'To Boldly Go' (ENT) featured events and characters from 'Pegasus' (TNG). Was that a rehash of Pegasus? No, what it featured from Pegasus were references to the episodes (albeit far better-executed than Into Darkness).
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Incorrect. I told about Carol Marcus saying they both was in there. As I was going through telling how similar the films was. He said: Show me Marcus in TWoK please He didn't specify. And then got angry, when he was the one didn't ask the right question.
From that I refuse to talk to him anymore over this topic. I won't play any more of his games.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Maybe the crew of the Franklin were familiar with the Minbari.
And now I'm sad because I miss Mr Garibaldi...
The "Past" before the Kelvin Incident, was not changed because of that same incident.
Supposedly, both universes were pretty much alike up to the point where Nero crosses over, then things started to change.
(though there seems to be a lot of argumentative discussion of this fact among fans)
There are plenty of ways to reconcile the alterations/differences, just by using the TV show ENTERPRISE and/or the Trek movie First Contact, but sometimes the acrimony of certain fans toward the JJ-Trek movies trumps all.
<shrug>
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
But that unfortunately leaves the plots holes of the Franklin and why a 24th century ship uses Kelvin timeline stardates. I just think they should be left to their own devices, merits and warts.
There are no plot holes relating to the Franklin and I don't even get where you're going with the the stardate thing? What's a KT Stardate?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I think he's referring to when Robau tells Ayel that the stardate is "twenty-two thirty-three zero four." Sure it's the Earth year A.D. 2233, but that's not the original stardate system from TOS. I figure since the Kelvin was pre-TOS, they used the Earth year, and switched to "stardates" later.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
It was called the first warp 4 vessel and was referred to as post Romulan war, that's a pretty big hole.
And yeah as metalstickman says they use use the year and 2 digits as their stardates throughout which is neither TOS nor TNG's method and then the Jellyfish says it was commisioned on "stardate 2387" which is the Kelvin timeline's way of using stardates.
They called it the Federation's first Warp 4 vessel. The NX-01 was decommissioned (by a matter of hours) before the Federation Charter was signed, so that's technically true.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Haha that's a bit of a stretch but a creative argument.
Hey, it's not the first time Star Trek's narrowly avoided breaking its own continuity because we grasp at straws to explain them.
It does also sorta depend on how you determine the nature of Starfleet pre- and post-Federation Founding. Many here would argue they're two separate organisations, others would say ENT Starfleet (or UESPA) became the Federation Starfleet, and others still would say Starfleet is still UESPA (myself included) and managed by Earth, but simply happens to be the best-equipped Federation 'military' force to respond to threats. If you subscribe to either of the first two theories, then the statement about the Franklin can also be explained as it being the first Warp 4 ship of the 'new' Starfleet.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Well you are certainly right there.
I think they said the Franklin fought the Romulans. Although it may have just been the captain that served in the war, I can't remember 100% but yeah I think Earth Starfleet just sort of evolved into Federation Starfleet. Maybe the MACOs still exist as Earth's exclusive forces just like there's still a Vulcan High Command (yeah in ENT it was dissolved but one of Seven's personalities referred to Vulcan High Command so presumably it was re-organised, now I'm the one grasping at straws)
Two date systems, one is the the year which ENT used as a stardate (and the Kelvin as well) and which it's possible the Vulcans still use in 2387. The other is the standard stardate system in use from after the Kelvin's time.
As for the Franklin, it sounds to me like it was the first warp four ship that was later commissioned into the Federation. As Earth was part of the Federation it's a shared glory type thing wrapped in a figure of speech. It's still done now to refer to things are belonging to a nation or the like that exists not but that didn't back when the thing happened.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Isn't that part of the raison d'être of Trekkies?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Putting a spoiler for those who haven't seen the film yet.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood