They're not really telling the actors they can't work on fan films, they're telling the fan film producers that if they use the actors they are more likely to have action taken against them. Such action may or may not happen, but if it did happen it would be against the production, not the actor, so I don't know that SAG could really complain about this because they technically still can appear, the production would just lose some of it's protection.
None of this is authorization to make a fan film btw, it's just an outline for ways to make legal action less likely.
CBS/Paramount proposed Rule #11 would prohibit Unauthorized Fan Memories of more than three minutes.
If read literally, the copyright statements of professional baseball and football in the US already prohibit the formation of memories, as well as any discussion of the game, without the express written consent of the Commissioner...
The only sad thing about Renegades is how undeniably horrible it was.
the only thing horrible about Renegades was how 1960s some of their backdrop and set pieces were... but since it was a fan film I was willing to get over that. Go fig, it wasn't a pro studio, or pretending to be a pro studio, and CBS/Paramount didn't land on it with both feet.... wonder why? hmmm /sarcasm
Nowhere was I trying to create feeling of sympathy for CBS, but to illustrate why donating fans would have been angry enough to try and sue Alec Peters for their money back... I'm sorry you did not understand that...
This doesn't happen except as part of a single class action. The sums are too small individually for anyone to pursue this fantasy.
Really? I thought people were able to take people to the small claims court for costs upto $5000? Does it need to be a class action for anyone to get any money back? Also, what if KickStarter turns round and decides that he was deliberately scamming people? Someone mentioned them having rules about that upthread (although apparently not always enforced) so I'd think that at the very least, KickStarter could enforce refunds (PayPal like doing things like that, such as taking money directly out of a sellers account (even a bank account if it is verified) It wouldn't surprize me if somehow, folks get their donations back...
You can but if it's Limited Civil (IE under $1500 - in my case were I to file, it would be $75); and if I got a complete Judgement in my favor - Alec Peters would have a Judgement on file against him for $75 (plus court fees - basically they'd add the filing fee I paid to the Judgement); BUT it's up to ME to collect it from him (IE under $1500 they won't garnish wages, put any liens on property, etc.); so my option then is to sell it to a collection agency (for pennies on the dollar) or just hope one day Alec Peters grew a conscience and fulfilled the Judgement.
And while it would go on his credit rating; a $75 dollar Judgement against wouldn't really ding it that hard.
And if a group of disgruntled pledgers were to file a Class Action suit (assuming you could find a willing lawyer/firm); the firm would typically take between 35%-40% of the settlement; AND Alec Peters/Axanar could simply declare bankruptcy (which would at least nuke his credit rating and hamper his ability to get loans or lines of credit in a major way for years) - but again, you'd get pennies (if anything at all) on the dollar.
For me, for my $75 pledge - it's just not worth the hassle, and that's what most small time grifters hope. That said, if they could make a case, at this point I would mind if the CA attorney general decided/were able to bring Alec Peters up on criminal fraud charges <-- IMO he really deserves it. But that's me - and it likely won't happen.
Damn, that's really disheartening to read... Thank you for taking the time to explain though, I guess Alec Peters is going to walk away from this one
Been reading Armsman on STO since he's been here and one other gaming forum which of course im not at liberty to say.
The man does his homework, more than most.
All this boo hoo CBS/Paramount are big bullies and Axanar was Trek's last best hope is hilarious, and infantile.
I think Alec Peters is a crook, and whatever he gets he doesn't live well with he deserves.
This is the thing, I was definitely keen to see Axanar made, BUT i wouldn't've called it the last best hope Equally, I have issue with crowdfunding at the best of times, because as Tony Todd tweeted: #NoAccountability
But, IMHO, Alec Peters deserves whatever the karma wagon rolls his way...
You would be surprised what employers can legally do. Such things have been done before. and remember they are the multibillion dollar company with millions to spend on corporate lawyers and who can make absolutely sure that such people are permanently blacklisted in the industry. Ask anybody who has worked in the programming field or game development, this kind of thing goes on all the time.
Speaking as a union man myself, union strength is extremely variable; my home local is very weak, the one I'm working for right now is quite a bit stronger. If there even is a union for computer programmers it's extremely weak. But the Screen Actors' Guild and the various other filmmaking trade unions such as the Screen Writers' Guild are very powerful.
The only sad thing about Renegades is how undeniably horrible it was.
the only thing horrible about Renegades was how 1960s some of their backdrop and set pieces were... but since it was a fan film I was willing to get over that. Go fig, it wasn't a pro studio, or pretending to be a pro studio, and CBS/Paramount didn't land on it with both feet.... wonder why? hmmm /sarcasm
If your supposedly Augment-smart planner of a protagonist's idea of a good plan is to just run in guns blazing, and you have to reduce the Federation to a caricature of its most ineffective moments in order to make that look competent by comparison, you're doing it wrong, period.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
If your supposedly Augment-smart planner of a protagonist's idea of a good plan is to just run in guns blazing, and you have to reduce the Federation to a caricature of its most ineffective moments in order to make that look competent by comparison, you're doing it wrong, period.
Spread your wings and watch more fan films... it wasn't the worst plot out there... not by a looooooooooooooong shot
The only sad thing about Renegades is how undeniably horrible it was.
the only thing horrible about Renegades was how 1960s some of their backdrop and set pieces were...
No, there were terrible sins in the writing, as well.
The moment that made me stop even watching it came fairly early on - when two characters who were visibly uncomfortable with each other sat next to one another, exposited about how much they each disliked the other, and then proceeded to expose their inner weaknesses to this professed enemy. Aside from the stilted language in which it was written (Rule 1: Read your dialog aloud; if it doesn't sound the way real people speak, rewrite), nobody does that. No one. Ever. In the history of sapience. It was an incredibly stupid way to expound on things better revealed over the course of time, done in a fashion which indicated that the writers appeared to think their audience was at least that dumb.
In UC the Klingon Empire wasn't crippled by the loss of a mining moon. From dialogue at the conference the moon's destruction polluted the Klingon home world's ozone layer:
Spock: "Two months ago, a Federation starship monitored an explosion on the Klingon moon, Praxis. We believe it was the result of over-mining and insufficient safety precautions. The moon's decimation means a deadly contamination of their ozone layer. They will have depleted their supply of oxygen in approximately fifty Earth years. Due to their enormous military budget the Klingons do not have the resources to combat this catastrophe."
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Lol actually id say the critical thinking issue is reversed, you people make up critical thinking issues as you go.
You contradict yourself, and then try and define it as critical thinking, nice.
You know the level of hypocrisy and complaining you do yourself, makes me think you could be marcusdkanemarcusdkane twin.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
In fairness, the statements and recriminations have to get a lot more violently worded before I'd buy this.
Lol, yeah it hasn't gotten that bad yet.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
"The Klingon Empire has approximately 50 years of life left"
"Jim, they are dying"
No matter how the specifics shake down the loss of Praxis was stated to mean the end of the empire. It being due to ozone contamination just makes it more silly since in Canon we had already seen 1 starship repair a planet's ozone layer all by itself yet we are supposed to believe the entire empire couldn't do it. Now maybe in TUC era it might have taken more ships since it was Picard's ship we saw do it, but it was doable.
And just perhaps, the Klingons don't have the right tech to be able to do it at that time period and it means asking the Fed's. for <Kahless Forbid> Help.
Anyway, that's the impression I got from the movie...,
Only a few in the Empire actually knew how bad things really were, which is why the diplomacy mission was agreed to in the first place.
And General Kang and his ilk were just too damn proud and stubborn, to accept any help from the Federation no matter what the circumstances.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Kronos is also the 'soul' of the Klingon Empire. Even if only that one planet was effected by Praxis, the demoralising effect it would have on the rest of the Empire is easy to see. It would be the Klingon's Wolf 359 or Hobus.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Also: "Due to their enormous military budget the Klingons do not have the resources to combat this catastrophe."
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
If your supposedly Augment-smart planner of a protagonist's idea of a good plan is to just run in guns blazing, and you have to reduce the Federation to a caricature of its most ineffective moments in order to make that look competent by comparison, you're doing it wrong, period.
Spread your wings and watch more fan films... it wasn't the worst plot out there... not by a looooooooooooooong shot
Nice try moving the goalposts but nobody said it was the worst fan film, just that it was bad.
Renegades had some good moments, and I do like that after their first trailer, when a number of people expounded on a massive hole in their plot which it shared with Star Trek 6, they changed that plot point in the finished film. That plot point being that the a massive interstellar civilization, comprised of over a hundred worlds, could be crippled by the loss of just one mining planet.
I do think it would work out better as an Andromeda fan film, and wouldn't require much changing. Make the Augment a Nietchien and your half way there. Get Kevin Sorbo to reprise Dylan as a senior Admiral working with Tim Russ's new character, and rework Koenig into the head of the New Systems Commonwealth. Only one I can't really figure out how to convert is Icheb, and I'm not worried about that because while I liked Icheb on Voyager I hated what they did with him in Renegades. They had AI with holograms in Andromeda so they engineer isn't a big deal.
I disagree. Regardless of the film's quality, they're better off all-around by turning their script into an entirely new IP as they have done instead of piggy-backing on an established name: for starters they don't need to worry about pissing off canon purists of any stripe, they can make their own damn canon.
For God's sake, there's a hell of a lot more in sci-fi than the big "Star" franchises, B5, and Firefly, and Hollywood has gotten so gorram uncreative of late and they're still doing godawful things like casting a white woman as Motoko Kusanagi (sorry, Scarlett Johansson, I love you dearly but the Major's role deserved to go to an Asian). I would love to see a genuinely new live-action IP that I can watch without needing to pay a cable bill or subscription fee, provided the quality is up to scratch of course.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Lol actually id say the critical thinking issue is reversed, you people make up critical thinking issues as you go.
You contradict yourself, and then try and define it as critical thinking, nice.
You know the level of hypocrisy and complaining you do yourself, makes me think you could be marcusdkanemarcusdkane twin.
Lol another weak attempt at calling someone out, i suppose you are twins with the other guy.
Just because marcus comments on my post you think that it needs to be commented on, instead of say bugs that never get fixed, people who contradict themselves on the same page of a forum and try and call it critical thinking.
I dont complain, i give my opinion, there is no hypocrisy involved in it.
Your twin doesn't know the meaning of critical thinking.
You dont know the meaning of hypocrisy.
You both would probably be better served if you just assume im right from now on.
In UC the Klingon Empire wasn't crippled by the loss of a mining moon. From dialogue at the conference the moon's destruction polluted the Klingon home world's ozone layer:
Spock: "Two months ago, a Federation starship monitored an explosion on the Klingon moon, Praxis. We believe it was the result of over-mining and insufficient safety precautions. The moon's decimation means a deadly contamination of their ozone layer. They will have depleted their supply of oxygen in approximately fifty Earth years. Due to their enormous military budget the Klingons do not have the resources to combat this catastrophe."
My issue with that aspect of Star Trek VI was - yes, okay, it was the Klingon Homeworld; but the Klingon Empire had many star systems and planets under its control - and 50 years is plenty of time to evacuate a planetary population to other colonies and establish a new seat of power. <-- Why would the loss of ONE world cripple a Star Empire or it's Fleet? If anything, you'd think it would make them more aggressive and make them want to find more worlds. I also had an issue with the aspect of Star Fleet even talking about 'mothballing the Fleet' as if the Klingons were the only aggressive alien threat out there.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Nice try moving the goalposts but nobody said it was the worst fan film, just that it was bad.
Not moving goal posts, it was claimed that Renegades was oh so horrid, it wasn't there are a ton worse things out there than it.
There are indeed worse things out there, but there are also significantly better ones... Renegades was punching way above its weight in terms of the names on board vs quality of the writing and production values... Now had Renegades been made by the same production crew as Star Trek Continues, then yes, it could have been good... It would have been better scripted, more tightly acted, and more consistent quality of effects and sets... STC was Top Notch, and that Set the Bar for other productions. Renegades did the best it could with what it had, but it wasn't on the same level, and fairly or unfairly, it is being judged by the same criteria and standards... That's not to say that Renegades was absolute dogshit, I enjoyed watching it, but I could definitely see flaws in it, and I'd never say it was of the same quality of a production like STC...
As mentioned above, had they simply released a series of their own (even if near)IP, then it would just have been judged on it's merits/failings, rather than being judged to the same standard as work like STC, because it wouldn't be trading on the Star Trek name for familiarity. Personally, I would say Renegades sounds like what I've heard Blake's 7 was like (Never actually seen an episode) rather than Star Trek...
Lol another weak attempt at calling someone out, i suppose you are twins with the other guy.
Just because marcus comments on my post you think that it needs to be commented on, instead of say bugs that never get fixed, people who contradict themselves on the same page of a forum and try and call it critical thinking.
I dont complain, i give my opinion, there is no hypocrisy involved in it.
Your twin doesn't know the meaning of critical thinking.
You dont know the meaning of hypocrisy.
You both would probably be better served if you just assume im right from now on.
Wow nice comeback, literally just repeating what I said. And good job on using six small sentences, it really creates the illusion you know what you're talking about. lol
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Lol another weak attempt at calling someone out, i suppose you are twins with the other guy.
Just because marcus comments on my post you think that it needs to be commented on, instead of say bugs that never get fixed, people who contradict themselves on the same page of a forum and try and call it critical thinking.
I dont complain, i give my opinion, there is no hypocrisy involved in it.
Your twin doesn't know the meaning of critical thinking.
You dont know the meaning of hypocrisy.
You both would probably be better served if you just assume im right from now on.
Wow nice comeback, literally just repeating what I said. And good job on using six small sentences, it really creates the illusion you know what you're talking about. lol
Oh gee, id keep this up but i like a challenge, it'd also eventually just get cruel.
Im so far out of your league when it comes to debate or anything else at 54 yrs old i dont have long enough to live for you to get to where im at.
Oh gee, id keep this up but i like a challenge, it'd also eventually just get cruel.
Im so far out of your league when it comes to debate or anything else at 54 yrs old i dont have long enough to live for you to get to where im at.
By all means keep trying, if you like failure.
Id give you a hand, but im busy.
[Sigh] I think your personal universal translator short circuited... Everything you have said so far is the opposite of what you're doing. And I am finding it hard to believe you are in any league with sentences like that. That and your age has no bearing in a discussion. I'll do you the favour of discontinuing to reply, that way you can feel like you have accomplished something.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Comments
None of this is authorization to make a fan film btw, it's just an outline for ways to make legal action less likely.
Then you claim that people not being paid have the right to sue, what reality do you live in.?
And before you bring up the bank is my employer (or any other employer) arguement again, don't bother.
[/quote]
I won't. You haven't demonstrated enough grasp on critical thought to make it wowith my while.
the only thing horrible about Renegades was how 1960s some of their backdrop and set pieces were... but since it was a fan film I was willing to get over that. Go fig, it wasn't a pro studio, or pretending to be a pro studio, and CBS/Paramount didn't land on it with both feet.... wonder why? hmmm /sarcasm
But, IMHO, Alec Peters deserves whatever the karma wagon rolls his way...
Speaking as a union man myself, union strength is extremely variable; my home local is very weak, the one I'm working for right now is quite a bit stronger. If there even is a union for computer programmers it's extremely weak. But the Screen Actors' Guild and the various other filmmaking trade unions such as the Screen Writers' Guild are very powerful.
If your supposedly Augment-smart planner of a protagonist's idea of a good plan is to just run in guns blazing, and you have to reduce the Federation to a caricature of its most ineffective moments in order to make that look competent by comparison, you're doing it wrong, period.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The moment that made me stop even watching it came fairly early on - when two characters who were visibly uncomfortable with each other sat next to one another, exposited about how much they each disliked the other, and then proceeded to expose their inner weaknesses to this professed enemy. Aside from the stilted language in which it was written (Rule 1: Read your dialog aloud; if it doesn't sound the way real people speak, rewrite), nobody does that. No one. Ever. In the history of sapience. It was an incredibly stupid way to expound on things better revealed over the course of time, done in a fashion which indicated that the writers appeared to think their audience was at least that dumb.
Spock: "Two months ago, a Federation starship monitored an explosion on the Klingon moon, Praxis. We believe it was the result of over-mining and insufficient safety precautions. The moon's decimation means a deadly contamination of their ozone layer. They will have depleted their supply of oxygen in approximately fifty Earth years. Due to their enormous military budget the Klingons do not have the resources to combat this catastrophe."
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Lol actually id say the critical thinking issue is reversed, you people make up critical thinking issues as you go.
You contradict yourself, and then try and define it as critical thinking, nice.
You know the level of hypocrisy and complaining you do yourself, makes me think you could be marcusdkanemarcusdkane twin.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
In fairness, the statements and recriminations have to get a lot more violently worded before I'd buy this.
Lol, yeah it hasn't gotten that bad yet.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
My character Tsin'xing
And just perhaps, the Klingons don't have the right tech to be able to do it at that time period and it means asking the Fed's. for <Kahless Forbid> Help.
Anyway, that's the impression I got from the movie...,
Only a few in the Empire actually knew how bad things really were, which is why the diplomacy mission was agreed to in the first place.
And General Kang and his ilk were just too damn proud and stubborn, to accept any help from the Federation no matter what the circumstances.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Nice try moving the goalposts but nobody said it was the worst fan film, just that it was bad.
I disagree. Regardless of the film's quality, they're better off all-around by turning their script into an entirely new IP as they have done instead of piggy-backing on an established name: for starters they don't need to worry about pissing off canon purists of any stripe, they can make their own damn canon.
For God's sake, there's a hell of a lot more in sci-fi than the big "Star" franchises, B5, and Firefly, and Hollywood has gotten so gorram uncreative of late and they're still doing godawful things like casting a white woman as Motoko Kusanagi (sorry, Scarlett Johansson, I love you dearly but the Major's role deserved to go to an Asian). I would love to see a genuinely new live-action IP that I can watch without needing to pay a cable bill or subscription fee, provided the quality is up to scratch of course.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Not moving goal posts, it was claimed that Renegades was oh so horrid, it wasn't there are a ton worse things out there than it.
Lol another weak attempt at calling someone out, i suppose you are twins with the other guy.
Just because marcus comments on my post you think that it needs to be commented on, instead of say bugs that never get fixed, people who contradict themselves on the same page of a forum and try and call it critical thinking.
I dont complain, i give my opinion, there is no hypocrisy involved in it.
Your twin doesn't know the meaning of critical thinking.
You dont know the meaning of hypocrisy.
You both would probably be better served if you just assume im right from now on.
My issue with that aspect of Star Trek VI was - yes, okay, it was the Klingon Homeworld; but the Klingon Empire had many star systems and planets under its control - and 50 years is plenty of time to evacuate a planetary population to other colonies and establish a new seat of power. <-- Why would the loss of ONE world cripple a Star Empire or it's Fleet? If anything, you'd think it would make them more aggressive and make them want to find more worlds. I also had an issue with the aspect of Star Fleet even talking about 'mothballing the Fleet' as if the Klingons were the only aggressive alien threat out there.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
As mentioned above, had they simply released a series of their own (even if near)IP, then it would just have been judged on it's merits/failings, rather than being judged to the same standard as work like STC, because it wouldn't be trading on the Star Trek name for familiarity. Personally, I would say Renegades sounds like what I've heard Blake's 7 was like (Never actually seen an episode) rather than Star Trek...
Wow nice comeback, literally just repeating what I said. And good job on using six small sentences, it really creates the illusion you know what you're talking about. lol
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Im so far out of your league when it comes to debate or anything else at 54 yrs old i dont have long enough to live for you to get to where im at.
By all means keep trying, if you like failure.
Id give you a hand, but im busy.
[Sigh] I think your personal universal translator short circuited... Everything you have said so far is the opposite of what you're doing. And I am finding it hard to believe you are in any league with sentences like that. That and your age has no bearing in a discussion. I'll do you the favour of discontinuing to reply, that way you can feel like you have accomplished something.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes