This summer is going to be interesting. Cryptic DESPERATELY wants and needs to bring in new players via exposure at the Anniversary celebration and the building hype train for the new show. But they're gonna be wasting their time if new players show up here and we rightly and cheerfully tell them "You're hosed. You'll never come close to the power of the veterans though a combination of free ships, exclusive ships, some of the most powerful consoles in the game, oh yeah and they'll out earn you in the admiralty system too. All stuff that Cryptic has been adamant about never offering again. Welcome to the game. Oh, they tossed the exploration out years ago and PvP is a tragic joke. But there's 22 gambling boxes that they re-release every couple of months!"
Revamping the skill system had better be just the first of MANY changes on the way.
they can just infer there are newer and better free exclusive ships on the way for them to get with even more powerful consoles that will be even better for the admiralty system, they don't need the old out of date stuff.
they can also hint they have been busy revamping exploration and PvP to make them the best ever and they will be released at some undisclosed date far in the future when they are ready but in the mean time there are plenty of missions to explore and special events to take part in so they can hone their skills with all the characters they create.
they can also say there will be a lot of updates and expansions in the future to make the game better then ever, there's never been a better time to start playing.
eventually they will have so much game time and hopefully money invested in the game they wont be able to quit.
as for lock boxes you just need to look at the uk national lottery, the chances of getting the jackpot or even a decent prize on that are astronomical yet people shell out 100's of pounds every year, what is that compared to lock boxes where the odds of getting the jackpot are only 200-1.
Post edited by bobbydazlers on
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
This summer is going to be interesting. Cryptic DESPERATELY wants and needs to bring in new players via exposure at the Anniversary celebration and the building hype train for the new show. But they're gonna be wasting their time if new players show up here and we rightly and cheerfully tell them "You're hosed. You'll never come close to the power of the veterans though a combination of free ships, exclusive ships, some of the most powerful consoles in the game, oh yeah and they'll out earn you in the admiralty system too. All stuff that Cryptic has been adamant about never offering again. Welcome to the game. Oh, they tossed the exploration out years ago and PvP is a tragic joke. But there's 22 gambling boxes that they re-release every couple of months!"
Revamping the skill system had better be just the first of MANY changes on the way.
they can just infer there are newer and better free exclusive ships on the way for them to get with even more powerful consoles that will be even better for the admiralty system, they don't need the old out of date stuff.
Except that's not the point. Admiralty is all about numbers, 3 old summer event ships always beat 1 new ship no matter how powerful. Not that newbies would actually know what a good ship is. By the time they do, they've noticed the game is so easy it doesn't matter.
3 summer event ships, 4 winter event ships, 3* anniversary ships... the shotgun, the crystal torpedo, the Phoenix replica card, etc, etc...go away new people you can't have this stuff go play some new game if you don't want to miss everything! Leave old games for the old players! Go on, shoo!
You can't stop the Event Horizon by throwing new stuff at it. Because that stuff will become "exclusive" too and the problem only gets worse. The black hole of things-new-players-arent-allowed-to-have will just grow until new players just don't come anymore.
*Because the 2014 anniversary ship was wisely made available in the lobi store.
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
We've been hearing more about "exclusive" rewards in interviews,
and yet,
we're also getting interviews where they say "we want new players to have access to older rewards."
So which is it?
To quote the Scarecrow "Ofcourse people do go both ways".
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I'm still a proponent of the Ancestor's Eve event....
April 22nd, every year, ALL players can play some mission or something and choose a single item their account does not have(Event ship/RMC/Pre-order exclusives) or a single faction-specific item their character does not have(Nanov pet) as a reward.....
Most account items would be boxed and bound to account except for the ship which follows ship rules(unlocks across all characters) but each Ancestors Eve would only have event ships over 2 years old to keep people doing the current years event.
We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
This summer is going to be interesting. Cryptic DESPERATELY wants and needs to bring in new players via exposure at the Anniversary celebration and the building hype train for the new show. But they're gonna be wasting their time if new players show up here and we rightly and cheerfully tell them "You're hosed. You'll never come close to the power of the veterans though a combination of free ships, exclusive ships, some of the most powerful consoles in the game, oh yeah and they'll out earn you in the admiralty system too. All stuff that Cryptic has been adamant about never offering again. Welcome to the game. Oh, they tossed the exploration out years ago and PvP is a tragic joke. But there's 22 gambling boxes that they re-release every couple of months!"
Revamping the skill system had better be just the first of MANY changes on the way.
they can just infer there are newer and better free exclusive ships on the way for them to get with even more powerful consoles that will be even better for the admiralty system, they don't need the old out of date stuff.
Except that's not the point. Admiralty is all about numbers, 3 old summer event ships always beat 1 new ship no matter how powerful. Not that newbies would actually know what a good ship is. By the time they do, they've noticed the game is so easy it doesn't matter.
3 summer event ships, 4 winter event ships, 3* anniversary ships... the shotgun, the crystal torpedo, the Phoenix replica card, etc, etc...go away new people you can't have this stuff go play some new game if you don't want to miss everything! Leave old games for the old players! Go on, shoo!
You can't stop the Event Horizon by throwing new stuff at it. Because that stuff will become "exclusive" too and the problem only gets worse. The black hole of things-new-players-arent-allowed-to-have will just grow until new players just don't come anymore.
*Because the 2014 anniversary ship was wisely made available in the lobi store.
that may be but that's the way cryptic want to play it.
as I said before, the mirror, CCE and breach type events have always been exclusive from day one, ship events though past rewards were offered for a few years it was clear to me that this would always be a short lived practice.
add to this the fact that it might not be such a good practice to offer past rewards for new players to collect, just imagine sto has a very long lifespan for an online game, new players have more and more past rewards to collect that they could actually be put off by the prospect of how long it is actually going to take them to collect these rewards.
so far there are 11 event ships and about 10 smaller event rewards to collect, what happens if sto is running for another 10 or 20 years, now theres another 30 or 60 ships to collect and about the same number of smaller rewards on top of what we already have, there comes a time when you have to say enough is enough and I guess cryptic feel that time has come.
if someone chimes in now and says sto will be lucky to last another year or two the simple answer there is - in that case why bother about old event rewards if sto is going to be gone soon anyway.
finally offering past rewards breeds complacency in players, why bother playing this event to get that reward when I can pick it up in the next event anyway.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
I'm still a proponent of the Ancestor's Eve event....
April 22nd, every year, ALL players can play some mission or something and choose a single item their account does not have(Event ship/RMC/Pre-order exclusives) or a single faction-specific item their character does not have(Nanov pet) as a reward.....
Most account items would be boxed and bound to account except for the ship which follows ship rules(unlocks across all characters) but each Ancestors Eve would only have event ships over 2 years old to keep people doing the current years event.
Bare in mind, Cryptic didn't always have event rewards be this exclusive. The Featured Episode rewards (the Breen boff etc.) were offered three or four times to players. Six months from now we may well find them offering old rewards again because no policy is set in stone.
If you're up for that, and I know I am, here is where you can tell them. It's what the forums are for, if they didn't want our feedback, they wouldn't have them. There are lots of game devs that either don't have forums or just ignore them, Cryptic aren't one of them. They might not change their policy, but they can't say they didn't know we want them too.
My alt army: K'ymara, Orion Engineer. Caedera of Borg, Liberated Borg Tactical, Elyza Vix, Joined Trill Scientist. Christina Bellona, Augmented Human Tactical. T'Lana, Vulcan Scientist. Arbol, Martian Tactical. Ayzer Bryn, Joined Trill Engineer. Hawke, Betazoid Scientist. Karna Valkras, Klingon Engineer. Beth Parker, Human Tactical Sarel, Romulan Engineer (Federation). Yazuri, Reman Scientist (KDF)
Bare in mind, Cryptic didn't always have event rewards be this exclusive. The Featured Episode rewards (the Breen boff etc.) were offered three or four times to players. Six months from now we may well find them offering old rewards again because no policy is set in stone.
If you're up for that, and I know I am, here is where you can tell them. It's what the forums are for, if they didn't want our feedback, they wouldn't have them. There are lots of game devs that either don't have forums or just ignore them, Cryptic aren't one of them. They might not change their policy, but they can't say they didn't know we want them too.
Every time the subject has come up (and I actually saw the thread) I have stated my desire for them to reverse the exclusivity decision. Perhaps this time it may matter. Join us in this noble venture.
Bare in mind, Cryptic didn't always have event rewards be this exclusive. The Featured Episode rewards (the Breen boff etc.) were offered three or four times to players. Six months from now we may well find them offering old rewards again because no policy is set in stone.
If you're up for that, and I know I am, here is where you can tell them. It's what the forums are for, if they didn't want our feedback, they wouldn't have them. There are lots of game devs that either don't have forums or just ignore them, Cryptic aren't one of them. They might not change their policy, but they can't say they didn't know we want them too.
every event has its own rules and rewards structure, featured episode rerun rewards obviously come under the category of repeatable rewards where as they have never repeated rewards from CCE & mirror and they have obviously decided to go the same way with seasonal rewards.
you will probably find the same rewards will be given for the next featured episode rerun event and the one after that and the one after that but don't be fooled into thinking this in any way reflects with other events where the rewards are not repeatable but exclusive.
for example The Crystalline Shard is a limited-edition item available to players who participated in the Crystalline Cataclysm event that ran from April 11th, 2013 through May 2nd, 2013.
it was never offered before and has never been offered since, it is exclusive to that event.
you will find the similar thing applies to all of the CCE and mirror event rewards if you look them up.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
add to this the fact that it might not be such a good practice to offer past rewards for new players to collect, just imagine sto has a very long lifespan for an online game, new players have more and more past rewards to collect that they could actually be put off by the prospect of how long it is actually going to take them to collect these rewards.
No matter how long, it would still always be shorter than "never."
finally offering past rewards breeds complacency in players, why bother playing this event to get that reward when I can pick it up in the next event anyway.
If you want the reward you play the event. And if you don't want the reward, what do you care if its available in the next event? Fact is people who don't want the reward this year probably won't want it next year either.
But there's lots of people who weren't playing last year, or the year before that, who would gladly play this year's events multiple times to catch up.
add to this the fact that it might not be such a good practice to offer past rewards for new players to collect, just imagine sto has a very long lifespan for an online game, new players have more and more past rewards to collect that they could actually be put off by the prospect of how long it is actually going to take them to collect these rewards.
No matter how long, it would still always be shorter than "never."
finally offering past rewards breeds complacency in players, why bother playing this event to get that reward when I can pick it up in the next event anyway.
If you want the reward you play the event. And if you don't want the reward, what do you care if its available in the next event? Fact is people who don't want the reward this year probably won't want it next year either.
But there's lots of people who weren't playing last year, or the year before that, who would gladly play this year's events multiple times to catch up.
that might be true in some cases but I know of several players who put off getting event ships thinking they could catch up the following year or the year after that or thought they probably might get them some time in the future when they could be bothered and now desperately want these ships now they have been retired and I am pretty sure there are a lot more out there in the same predicament that I don't know about.
of course if they ever posted about the chances of getting them on the forum they would no doubt say its for new players as if they give a damn about new players.
if the new players are that bothered let it be them that ask for rewards to be repeated in the forums, ironically it seldom is.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
You can't stop the Event Horizon by throwing new stuff at it. Because that stuff will become "exclusive" too and the problem only gets worse. The black hole of things-new-players-arent-allowed-to-have will just grow until new players just don't come anymore.
However, according to Leonard Susskind's Holographic Principle theory (based upon the work of other theoretical physicists) anything that falls into a black hole leaves information of itself on the fluctuating surface of the event horizon. Therefore, while the objects themselves that falls into the black hole would no longer exist within the universe as we understand it based on our limited mathematical models of a black hole (or singularity), it is possible that in several hundred years humanity's mathematics will advance to the point where the theory that information is preserved on the event horizon (the holographic universe) can be confirmed to be true.
At that point it is only a matter of time before theorist can develop a method to extract that information and recreate the actual object that fell into the singularity so many years ago.
In other words, if we wait a few to several thousand years from now in real time, all of these STO event exclusive items may once again be made available to STO players.
I'm still a proponent of the Ancestor's Eve event....
April 22nd, every year, ALL players can play some mission or something and choose a single item their account does not have(Event ship/RMC/Pre-order exclusives) or a single faction-specific item their character does not have(Nanov pet) as a reward.....
Most account items would be boxed and bound to account except for the ship which follows ship rules(unlocks across all characters) but each Ancestors Eve would only have event ships over 2 years old to keep people doing the current years event.
Or an event lockbox They are a reward for doing a daily quest, and can give old event things.
You can't stop the Event Horizon by throwing new stuff at it. Because that stuff will become "exclusive" too and the problem only gets worse. The black hole of things-new-players-arent-allowed-to-have will just grow until new players just don't come anymore.
However, according to Leonard Susskind's Holographic Principle theory (based upon the work of other theoretical physicists) anything that falls into a black hole leaves information of itself on the fluctuating surface of the event horizon. Therefore, while the objects themselves that falls into the black hole would no longer exist within the universe as we understand it based on our limited mathematical models of a black hole (or singularity), it is possible that in several hundred years humanity's mathematics will advance to the point where the theory that information is preserved on the event horizon (the holographic universe) can be confirmed to be true.
At that point it is only a matter of time before theorist can develop a method to extract that information and recreate the actual object that fell into the singularity so many years ago.
In other words, if we wait a few to several thousand years from now in real time, all of these STO event exclusive items may once again be made available to STO players.
I believe that is how long you will need to wait before they become available again.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
<snip>but I know of several players who put off getting event ships thinking they could catch up the following year or the year after that or thought they probably might get them some time in the future when they could be bothered<snip>
This mentality does not give metrics in the year that they are desired.
As Salami posted when he started this spiel, he needs the logins during summer 2016, not summer 2017 or whatever other future year.
So, you want the 2016 ship? Play in 2016.
Side Logic: You thinking of playing STO but not in? Start today, not "later" or when you finish with X...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
<snip>but I know of several players who put off getting event ships thinking they could catch up the following year or the year after that or thought they probably might get them some time in the future when they could be bothered<snip>
This mentality does not give metrics in the year that they are desired.
As Salami posted when he started this spiel, he needs the logins during summer 2016, not summer 2017 or whatever other future year.
So, you want the 2016 ship? Play in 2016.
Side Logic: You thinking of playing STO but not in? Start today, not "later" or when you finish with X...
and that is indeed why they wont repeat event rewards.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Back when I was trying to get people to play the game most that I talked to almost universally said "no thanks" when they found out the previous summer/winter/anniversary ships were exclusive and they'd never be able to get them.
One-off items like the crystal shard, etc. sure go ahead and make them exclusive, but stuff like ships and consoles that have an actual impact on gameplay or are part of a set? It's probably not the best idea. I know I'd be pissed if I was a newer player and bought the command battlecruiser pack then found out one part of the console set came from the Samsar which is no longer available.
The other thing whoever made the decision didn't take into account was a lot of people would get the current reward, then spend the rest of the event farming for a head start on next year. Even if they had no interest in the current reward they'd still farm for a head start on next year, then next year they'd do the same thing, resulting in a net surplus of time spent padding cryptic's beloved metrics. Now though? If someone wants the reward they'll most likely only log in just enough to get it then probably not bother with the event afterward because it gets old fast after the first year you play it, and if the reward isn't something that interests them? Probably not likely to log in at all.
I'd be very interested in seeing the hard data on how that worked out.
Back when I was trying to get people to play the game most that I talked to almost universally said "no thanks" when they found out the previous summer/winter/anniversary ships were exclusive and they'd never be able to get them.
One-off items like the crystal shard, etc. sure go ahead and make them exclusive, but stuff like ships and consoles that have an actual impact on gameplay or are part of a set? It's probably not the best idea. I know I'd be pissed if I was a newer player and bought the command battlecruiser pack then found out one part of the console set came from the Samsar which is no longer available.
so what about SWTOR even they have exclusive rewards for certain events, if it doesn't do them any harm why should sto be any different, also WOT have exclusive rewards for certain events it doesn't appear to bother their players.
I am sure nearly all the online games out there have certain events where exclusive rewards can be received, why is it only sto where this is putting off new players.
as for the command battlecruiser pack then sure the console should be made available by some other means but there is no need for players to get the ships if the consoles are made available elsewhere in game.
that is a different issue to repeating all past event rewards even though it is slightly related and I am sure if this issue was raised by enough players without muddying the issue with demands to have event rewards reissued you might get results.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
so what about SWTOR even they have exclusive rewards for certain events, if it doesn't do them any harm why should sto be any different, also WOT have exclusive rewards for certain events it doesn't appear to bother their players.
I am sure nearly all the online games out there have certain events where exclusive rewards can be received, why is it only sto where this is putting off new players.
as for the command battlecruiser pack then sure the console should be made available by some other means but there is no need for players to get the ships if the consoles are made available elsewhere in game.
that is a different issue to repeating all past event rewards even though it is slightly related and I am sure if this issue was raised by enough players without muddying the issue with demands to have event rewards reissued you might get results.
I don't play SWTOR or WoT so I don't really care what they do. I'm simply pointing out the flaws in cryptic's logic of "we'll make this stuff exclusive to force more people into participating in our events in order to make our numbers look good". It's probably not as effective as they'd hoped.
so what about SWTOR even they have exclusive rewards for certain events, if it doesn't do them any harm why should sto be any different, also WOT have exclusive rewards for certain events it doesn't appear to bother their players.
I am sure nearly all the online games out there have certain events where exclusive rewards can be received, why is it only sto where this is putting off new players.
as for the command battlecruiser pack then sure the console should be made available by some other means but there is no need for players to get the ships if the consoles are made available elsewhere in game.
that is a different issue to repeating all past event rewards even though it is slightly related and I am sure if this issue was raised by enough players without muddying the issue with demands to have event rewards reissued you might get results.
I don't play SWTOR or WoT so I don't really care what they do. I'm simply pointing out the flaws in cryptic's logic of "we'll make this stuff exclusive to force more people into participating in our events in order to make our numbers look good". It's probably not as effective as they'd hoped.
so your answer to missing out on past exclusive rewards is to respond by missing out on even more exclusive rewards in the future, makes sense.
I don't play them games either, I am just pointing out that if having unique exclusive rewards in a game is so off-putting to new players then perhaps they are best not playing any online games at all as it would seem that most online games appear to have them.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Getting stuff rarely bothers existing players. Not getting stuff, sometimes incredibly strong stuff -- EVER -- tends to bother potential players. And comes a point in a game's life where courting potential players is more important that appeasing existing players who have bought the vast majority of what they're ever going to buy.
I honestly would not mind having a crack at getting some event items I missed. While I agree that for alot of new players in the game these items might not mean much at the start, but you know they just have to park their ship in ESD/Qo'Nos/New Romulas and see all these ships that they missed out getting.Then the questions are going to start in as how they can get them, just to be told "nope, you missed it or you joined this game too late so here's your penalty."
Not only that they missed out on some good consoles/pets/weapons/items/clothing options etc etc.
I believe the whole "exclusivity" thing is nothing more than a marketing ploy. Yes the next batch of events you might see some increase in participation but really to use these tactics to get people to play isn't too cool in my book. You might get better results with making these items available again with whatever new item is going in a new event.
I for one would love to be able to get some of the things I missed, hell I've been doing like this one man campaign just to get a stupid Nanov pet that isn't even a combat pet. But who knows? Maybe they might see the advantage to having missed items available again.
"There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men. The words of Ten Bears carries the same iron of life and death. It is good that warriors such as we meet in the struggle of life... or death. It shall be life." - Ten Bears (Will Sampson)
I honestly would not mind having a crack at getting some event items I missed. While I agree that for alot of new players in the game these items might not mean much at the start, but you know they just have to park their ship in ESD/Qo'Nos/New Romulas and see all these ships that they missed out getting.Then the questions are going to start in as how they can get them, just to be told "nope, you missed it or you joined this game too late so here's your penalty."
Not only that they missed out on some good consoles/pets/weapons/items/clothing options etc etc.
I believe the whole "exclusivity" thing is nothing more than a marketing ploy. Yes the next batch of events you might see some increase in participation but really to use these tactics to get people to play isn't too cool in my book. You might get better results with making these items available again with whatever new item is going in a new event.
I for one would love to be able to get some of the things I missed, hell I've been doing like this one man campaign just to get a stupid Nanov pet that isn't even a combat pet. But who knows? Maybe they might see the advantage to having missed items available again.
by that logic every player that has asked me where did you get that ship re LTS vet ships and all the players who have likely asked other lifetime buyers the same have all ran out and bought a lifetime subs so they could get these ships, whats betting this is not the case.
I have seen many long term players posting for the event ships to return (often supposedly for the benefit of new players) who had plenty of opportunity to get these ships and only want them now they are gone, I have even had some of them actually admit to the fact when challenged by me in this forum.
ironically I have also seen new players who have posted that they couldn't care less about old event ships and are only interested in getting new event ships in the future.
though this might not always be the case it just goes to prove there are two sides to every argument.
I believe most new players are likely grown up enough to understand and except what limited edition means and are sensible enough to know there will be plenty more limited edition rewards in the future they can get without worrying about old stuff.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
by that logic every player that has asked me where did you get that ship re LTS vet ships and all the players who have likely asked other lifetime buyers the same have all ran out and bought a lifetime subs so they could get these ships, whats betting this is not the case.
I have seen many long term players posting for the event ships to return (often supposedly for the benefit of new players) who had plenty of opportunity to get these ships and only want them now they are gone, I have even had some of them actually admit to the fact when challenged by me in this forum.
ironically I have also seen new players who have posted that they couldn't care less about old event ships and are only interested in getting new event ships in the future.
though this might not always be the case it just goes to prove there are two sides to every argument.
I believe most new players are likely grown up enough to understand and except what limited edition means and are sensible enough to know there will be plenty more limited edition rewards in the future they can get without worrying about old stuff.
But isn't there a big difference there? LTS going for $200 (on those discount days) seems a pretty steep price just to get a ship they like, events are essentially "free stuff" and about the only thing you are really investing in is time and effort to getting those things.
I know you might not be referring to me about long time players posting for event ships on behalf of new people when it's the long time player that is actually posting for themselves, But hell yeah I will say I am posting for me and anyone else , new or old time players that want to get some of those old event items lol!
Yes I do agree that some new players might not care for any items they may have missed and that, that thinking may change or not (depending on the player of course).
At any rate I guess it's just one of those things where time will tell how the powers that be will lean to down the road. I do not believe that everything said is set in stone and it is always possible for a change of policy.
I just really want that nanov LOL
"There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men. The words of Ten Bears carries the same iron of life and death. It is good that warriors such as we meet in the struggle of life... or death. It shall be life." - Ten Bears (Will Sampson)
by that logic every player that has asked me where did you get that ship re LTS vet ships and all the players who have likely asked other lifetime buyers the same have all ran out and bought a lifetime subs so they could get these ships, whats betting this is not the case.
I have seen many long term players posting for the event ships to return (often supposedly for the benefit of new players) who had plenty of opportunity to get these ships and only want them now they are gone, I have even had some of them actually admit to the fact when challenged by me in this forum.
ironically I have also seen new players who have posted that they couldn't care less about old event ships and are only interested in getting new event ships in the future.
though this might not always be the case it just goes to prove there are two sides to every argument.
I believe most new players are likely grown up enough to understand and except what limited edition means and are sensible enough to know there will be plenty more limited edition rewards in the future they can get without worrying about old stuff.
But isn't there a big difference there? LTS going for $200 (on those discount days) seems a pretty steep price just to get a ship they like, events are essentially "free stuff" and about the only thing you are really investing in is time and effort to getting those things.
I know you might not be referring to me about long time players posting for event ships on behalf of new people when it's the long time player that is actually posting for themselves, But hell yeah I will say I am posting for me and anyone else , new or old time players that want to get some of those old event items lol!
Yes I do agree that some new players might not care for any items they may have missed and that, that thinking may change or not (depending on the player of course).
At any rate I guess it's just one of those things where time will tell how the powers that be will lean to down the road. I do not believe that everything said is set in stone and it is always possible for a change of policy.
I just really want that nanov LOL
depends how desperately they want them, if they are so devastated they cant get them that they wont even play sto because of it as some other posters have said then paying $200 seems a small price in comparison and lets face it they would have to pay a lot more then that to get enough lobi to cover the cost of all the tokens they would have needed to buy to get these ships without playing the events so why should they not have to pay this price to buy them.
in truth I don't care one way or another if they make the past rewards available but apparently cryptic do and if you think seriously about their reasons you would probably do the same as they are if you were in their possition, at the end of the day they want players to do these events, they don't want them to skip the events with the knowledge that they can always pick up the rewards at some future time if they ever decide they want them.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
you have two options, either play for them when they are available or miss out on them completely, the choice is yours to make and that is the only thing you get to choose.
These conditions may be trivial for hardcore players, but casual players like me, who have to deal with the daily responsibilities of life (family, work, community, etc.), often find it difficult to meet such hefty time requirements (some event missions take a considerable amount of time to complete) in such strict intervals (20h time-gating) over such a strict window of opportunity. In the end, there really is no choice between whether family, work, community, or other real-life responsibilities take priority over a video game. Sometimes it means not being able to get the shiny event ship, I'm fine with that, but I can understand how other casuals may not be, and I can understand how they would like to receive satisfaction; some way to tie up loose ends for something they began in good faith.
Emphasis mine.
Because, really, I don't see where you get "strict", to the point that you're seemingly implying "harsh" from?
To "counter" your mission length statement - Geko's "on record" saying that they "typically design" most queue missions to require a 15-20 minute "time investment". Mirror (with it's hardcoding) and Breach (with it's massive slog) are the two that take the entire 15-20 minute window, the rest are built to finish as soon as the team's "done it's job", which, with competence in mission and power creep can be as short as 1 or 2 minutes.
The "seasonal" activities are designed to "require" 5 minutes (time it takes NPC to run the ice course) or 10 minutes (flying high's complete in or fail timer)...
Counter for "20 hour timegate" is pretty simple - compare the 20 hour block that allows, say, a "late primetime" (read: 9pm) being followed by an "early primetime" (read: 5pm) sequence of playtimes that count vs. a 23 hour's "well, it seems you play every day at XX:XX, right after dinner/family time/news/whatever" type gating or the ever so popular "well, a day is 24 hours, so wait that full day before you come back, and if you're late, shame on you, because you'll have to be that late every day till you're done" gates.
The counter for "window of opportunity" is the length of the window. Most events are 14/21, with the "seasonal themed" events 25/40.
On the 14/21 event, you can not play all three weekends that the event runs, as long as you're playing every weekday, and even on this type of schedule there's one day still available to "miss" while still getting the prize. Or, you can play weekends and "most" weekdays, since 14/21 means you can "miss" 7 days before the maths begin to say that you won't earn enough tokens playing only once a day.
Still, 5 days of play week 1, 5 days week 2, 4 days week 3 = prize.
On the "25/40" seasonal events, they're giving you a week's vacation and the "Cryptic customary" 7 misses in the event. 40 days - 25 days of play = 15 days of "misses", -7 for a vacation = 8 "remaining/"free" misses". I'm thinking that it may be entirely possible to take the week's vacation, miss every weekend of the event, and still get the ship purely from "weekday play", but in this case there's like zero margin for error (must play every weekday except your vacation week or else miss out)
The system is set up to reward hardcore players at the expense of casuals. If that's what the game needs, I can accept that. But to suggest that everyone has the choice to make a video game top-priority #1 in their lives is patently absurd.
And I fairly solidly remember one of our previous Executive Producers, when challenged with this very thought process, going on record as saying "the goal of these events is to 'convince' you to make STO your #1 gaming activity over the event's duration", not your #1 life priority (as evidenced by the aforementioned ability to miss a full third of a 14/21 event window, or the "built in week's vacation" on top of a week's worth of "random missed days").
Unspoken corollary to all the above: If you're "so casual" that you can't / won't "make time" to play one queue daily for a "majority" of your weekly entertainment time, you're probably "so casual" that you won't fully enjoy the gift...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Comments
they can just infer there are newer and better free exclusive ships on the way for them to get with even more powerful consoles that will be even better for the admiralty system, they don't need the old out of date stuff.
they can also hint they have been busy revamping exploration and PvP to make them the best ever and they will be released at some undisclosed date far in the future when they are ready but in the mean time there are plenty of missions to explore and special events to take part in so they can hone their skills with all the characters they create.
they can also say there will be a lot of updates and expansions in the future to make the game better then ever, there's never been a better time to start playing.
eventually they will have so much game time and hopefully money invested in the game they wont be able to quit.
as for lock boxes you just need to look at the uk national lottery, the chances of getting the jackpot or even a decent prize on that are astronomical yet people shell out 100's of pounds every year, what is that compared to lock boxes where the odds of getting the jackpot are only 200-1.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
3 summer event ships, 4 winter event ships, 3* anniversary ships... the shotgun, the crystal torpedo, the Phoenix replica card, etc, etc...go away new people you can't have this stuff go play some new game if you don't want to miss everything! Leave old games for the old players! Go on, shoo!
You can't stop the Event Horizon by throwing new stuff at it. Because that stuff will become "exclusive" too and the problem only gets worse. The black hole of things-new-players-arent-allowed-to-have will just grow until new players just don't come anymore.
*Because the 2014 anniversary ship was wisely made available in the lobi store.
We've been hearing more about "exclusive" rewards in interviews,
and yet,
we're also getting interviews where they say "we want new players to have access to older rewards."
So which is it?
To quote the Scarecrow "Ofcourse people do go both ways".
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
April 22nd, every year, ALL players can play some mission or something and choose a single item their account does not have(Event ship/RMC/Pre-order exclusives) or a single faction-specific item their character does not have(Nanov pet) as a reward.....
Most account items would be boxed and bound to account except for the ship which follows ship rules(unlocks across all characters) but each Ancestors Eve would only have event ships over 2 years old to keep people doing the current years event.
that may be but that's the way cryptic want to play it.
as I said before, the mirror, CCE and breach type events have always been exclusive from day one, ship events though past rewards were offered for a few years it was clear to me that this would always be a short lived practice.
add to this the fact that it might not be such a good practice to offer past rewards for new players to collect, just imagine sto has a very long lifespan for an online game, new players have more and more past rewards to collect that they could actually be put off by the prospect of how long it is actually going to take them to collect these rewards.
so far there are 11 event ships and about 10 smaller event rewards to collect, what happens if sto is running for another 10 or 20 years, now theres another 30 or 60 ships to collect and about the same number of smaller rewards on top of what we already have, there comes a time when you have to say enough is enough and I guess cryptic feel that time has come.
if someone chimes in now and says sto will be lucky to last another year or two the simple answer there is - in that case why bother about old event rewards if sto is going to be gone soon anyway.
finally offering past rewards breeds complacency in players, why bother playing this event to get that reward when I can pick it up in the next event anyway.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Now this idea I like alot.
We come in peace, SHOOT TO KILL!
If you're up for that, and I know I am, here is where you can tell them. It's what the forums are for, if they didn't want our feedback, they wouldn't have them. There are lots of game devs that either don't have forums or just ignore them, Cryptic aren't one of them. They might not change their policy, but they can't say they didn't know we want them too.
K'ymara, Orion Engineer. Caedera of Borg, Liberated Borg Tactical, Elyza Vix, Joined Trill Scientist. Christina Bellona, Augmented Human Tactical.
T'Lana, Vulcan Scientist. Arbol, Martian Tactical. Ayzer Bryn, Joined Trill Engineer. Hawke, Betazoid Scientist. Karna Valkras, Klingon Engineer. Beth Parker, Human Tactical
Sarel, Romulan Engineer (Federation). Yazuri, Reman Scientist (KDF)
Every time the subject has come up (and I actually saw the thread) I have stated my desire for them to reverse the exclusivity decision. Perhaps this time it may matter. Join us in this noble venture.
We come in peace, SHOOT TO KILL!
every event has its own rules and rewards structure, featured episode rerun rewards obviously come under the category of repeatable rewards where as they have never repeated rewards from CCE & mirror and they have obviously decided to go the same way with seasonal rewards.
you will probably find the same rewards will be given for the next featured episode rerun event and the one after that and the one after that but don't be fooled into thinking this in any way reflects with other events where the rewards are not repeatable but exclusive.
for example The Crystalline Shard is a limited-edition item available to players who participated in the Crystalline Cataclysm event that ran from April 11th, 2013 through May 2nd, 2013.
it was never offered before and has never been offered since, it is exclusive to that event.
you will find the similar thing applies to all of the CCE and mirror event rewards if you look them up.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
If you want the reward you play the event. And if you don't want the reward, what do you care if its available in the next event? Fact is people who don't want the reward this year probably won't want it next year either.
But there's lots of people who weren't playing last year, or the year before that, who would gladly play this year's events multiple times to catch up.
that might be true in some cases but I know of several players who put off getting event ships thinking they could catch up the following year or the year after that or thought they probably might get them some time in the future when they could be bothered and now desperately want these ships now they have been retired and I am pretty sure there are a lot more out there in the same predicament that I don't know about.
of course if they ever posted about the chances of getting them on the forum they would no doubt say its for new players as if they give a damn about new players.
if the new players are that bothered let it be them that ask for rewards to be repeated in the forums, ironically it seldom is.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
However, according to Leonard Susskind's Holographic Principle theory (based upon the work of other theoretical physicists) anything that falls into a black hole leaves information of itself on the fluctuating surface of the event horizon. Therefore, while the objects themselves that falls into the black hole would no longer exist within the universe as we understand it based on our limited mathematical models of a black hole (or singularity), it is possible that in several hundred years humanity's mathematics will advance to the point where the theory that information is preserved on the event horizon (the holographic universe) can be confirmed to be true.
At that point it is only a matter of time before theorist can develop a method to extract that information and recreate the actual object that fell into the singularity so many years ago.
In other words, if we wait a few to several thousand years from now in real time, all of these STO event exclusive items may once again be made available to STO players.
My character Tsin'xing
I believe that is how long you will need to wait before they become available again.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
This mentality does not give metrics in the year that they are desired.
As Salami posted when he started this spiel, he needs the logins during summer 2016, not summer 2017 or whatever other future year.
So, you want the 2016 ship? Play in 2016.
Side Logic: You thinking of playing STO but not in? Start today, not "later" or when you finish with X...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
and that is indeed why they wont repeat event rewards.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
One-off items like the crystal shard, etc. sure go ahead and make them exclusive, but stuff like ships and consoles that have an actual impact on gameplay or are part of a set? It's probably not the best idea. I know I'd be pissed if I was a newer player and bought the command battlecruiser pack then found out one part of the console set came from the Samsar which is no longer available.
The other thing whoever made the decision didn't take into account was a lot of people would get the current reward, then spend the rest of the event farming for a head start on next year. Even if they had no interest in the current reward they'd still farm for a head start on next year, then next year they'd do the same thing, resulting in a net surplus of time spent padding cryptic's beloved metrics. Now though? If someone wants the reward they'll most likely only log in just enough to get it then probably not bother with the event afterward because it gets old fast after the first year you play it, and if the reward isn't something that interests them? Probably not likely to log in at all.
I'd be very interested in seeing the hard data on how that worked out.
so what about SWTOR even they have exclusive rewards for certain events, if it doesn't do them any harm why should sto be any different, also WOT have exclusive rewards for certain events it doesn't appear to bother their players.
I am sure nearly all the online games out there have certain events where exclusive rewards can be received, why is it only sto where this is putting off new players.
as for the command battlecruiser pack then sure the console should be made available by some other means but there is no need for players to get the ships if the consoles are made available elsewhere in game.
that is a different issue to repeating all past event rewards even though it is slightly related and I am sure if this issue was raised by enough players without muddying the issue with demands to have event rewards reissued you might get results.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
I don't play SWTOR or WoT so I don't really care what they do. I'm simply pointing out the flaws in cryptic's logic of "we'll make this stuff exclusive to force more people into participating in our events in order to make our numbers look good". It's probably not as effective as they'd hoped.
so your answer to missing out on past exclusive rewards is to respond by missing out on even more exclusive rewards in the future, makes sense.
I don't play them games either, I am just pointing out that if having unique exclusive rewards in a game is so off-putting to new players then perhaps they are best not playing any online games at all as it would seem that most online games appear to have them.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Not only that they missed out on some good consoles/pets/weapons/items/clothing options etc etc.
I believe the whole "exclusivity" thing is nothing more than a marketing ploy. Yes the next batch of events you might see some increase in participation but really to use these tactics to get people to play isn't too cool in my book. You might get better results with making these items available again with whatever new item is going in a new event.
I for one would love to be able to get some of the things I missed, hell I've been doing like this one man campaign just to get a stupid Nanov pet that isn't even a combat pet. But who knows? Maybe they might see the advantage to having missed items available again.
Er.....what? I have no idea what you're getting at, I never said anything like that.
by that logic every player that has asked me where did you get that ship re LTS vet ships and all the players who have likely asked other lifetime buyers the same have all ran out and bought a lifetime subs so they could get these ships, whats betting this is not the case.
I have seen many long term players posting for the event ships to return (often supposedly for the benefit of new players) who had plenty of opportunity to get these ships and only want them now they are gone, I have even had some of them actually admit to the fact when challenged by me in this forum.
ironically I have also seen new players who have posted that they couldn't care less about old event ships and are only interested in getting new event ships in the future.
though this might not always be the case it just goes to prove there are two sides to every argument.
I believe most new players are likely grown up enough to understand and except what limited edition means and are sensible enough to know there will be plenty more limited edition rewards in the future they can get without worrying about old stuff.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
But isn't there a big difference there? LTS going for $200 (on those discount days) seems a pretty steep price just to get a ship they like, events are essentially "free stuff" and about the only thing you are really investing in is time and effort to getting those things.
I know you might not be referring to me about long time players posting for event ships on behalf of new people when it's the long time player that is actually posting for themselves, But hell yeah I will say I am posting for me and anyone else , new or old time players that want to get some of those old event items lol!
Yes I do agree that some new players might not care for any items they may have missed and that, that thinking may change or not (depending on the player of course).
At any rate I guess it's just one of those things where time will tell how the powers that be will lean to down the road. I do not believe that everything said is set in stone and it is always possible for a change of policy.
I just really want that nanov LOL
depends how desperately they want them, if they are so devastated they cant get them that they wont even play sto because of it as some other posters have said then paying $200 seems a small price in comparison and lets face it they would have to pay a lot more then that to get enough lobi to cover the cost of all the tokens they would have needed to buy to get these ships without playing the events so why should they not have to pay this price to buy them.
in truth I don't care one way or another if they make the past rewards available but apparently cryptic do and if you think seriously about their reasons you would probably do the same as they are if you were in their possition, at the end of the day they want players to do these events, they don't want them to skip the events with the knowledge that they can always pick up the rewards at some future time if they ever decide they want them.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Because, really, I don't see where you get "strict", to the point that you're seemingly implying "harsh" from?
To "counter" your mission length statement - Geko's "on record" saying that they "typically design" most queue missions to require a 15-20 minute "time investment". Mirror (with it's hardcoding) and Breach (with it's massive slog) are the two that take the entire 15-20 minute window, the rest are built to finish as soon as the team's "done it's job", which, with competence in mission and power creep can be as short as 1 or 2 minutes.
The "seasonal" activities are designed to "require" 5 minutes (time it takes NPC to run the ice course) or 10 minutes (flying high's complete in or fail timer)...
Counter for "20 hour timegate" is pretty simple - compare the 20 hour block that allows, say, a "late primetime" (read: 9pm) being followed by an "early primetime" (read: 5pm) sequence of playtimes that count vs. a 23 hour's "well, it seems you play every day at XX:XX, right after dinner/family time/news/whatever" type gating or the ever so popular "well, a day is 24 hours, so wait that full day before you come back, and if you're late, shame on you, because you'll have to be that late every day till you're done" gates.
The counter for "window of opportunity" is the length of the window. Most events are 14/21, with the "seasonal themed" events 25/40.
On the 14/21 event, you can not play all three weekends that the event runs, as long as you're playing every weekday, and even on this type of schedule there's one day still available to "miss" while still getting the prize. Or, you can play weekends and "most" weekdays, since 14/21 means you can "miss" 7 days before the maths begin to say that you won't earn enough tokens playing only once a day.
Still, 5 days of play week 1, 5 days week 2, 4 days week 3 = prize.
On the "25/40" seasonal events, they're giving you a week's vacation and the "Cryptic customary" 7 misses in the event. 40 days - 25 days of play = 15 days of "misses", -7 for a vacation = 8 "remaining/"free" misses". I'm thinking that it may be entirely possible to take the week's vacation, miss every weekend of the event, and still get the ship purely from "weekday play", but in this case there's like zero margin for error (must play every weekday except your vacation week or else miss out)
And I fairly solidly remember one of our previous Executive Producers, when challenged with this very thought process, going on record as saying "the goal of these events is to 'convince' you to make STO your #1 gaming activity over the event's duration", not your #1 life priority (as evidenced by the aforementioned ability to miss a full third of a 14/21 event window, or the "built in week's vacation" on top of a week's worth of "random missed days").
Unspoken corollary to all the above: If you're "so casual" that you can't / won't "make time" to play one queue daily for a "majority" of your weekly entertainment time, you're probably "so casual" that you won't fully enjoy the gift...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]