The specific specializations are gone, which is good. However I agree the torpedo and energy base abilities could do with combining as well so long as we can find a suitable replacement for the other three points.
Tribble (211 partg/epg, 125 aux power, t4 ship)
365 Tyken’s Rift 2 (now a ~60% reduction from live)
743 Destabilizing Resonance Beam 2 (now a ~35% reduction from live)
1495 Gravity Well 3 has stayed the same (still a ~10% increase from live)
902 Tractor Beam Repulsors 1 (now a ~30% reduction from live)
Tried to get the comparisons closer than last time. Hopefully Aux power gets sorted out soon. Hazard Emitters and Aux to SIF, etc. are still at their low rates from the previous patch as well.
I don't know where anyone gets the idea that FAW is under assault. It appears that it is being buffed by this revamp. If you are tac and can largely ignore sci points you will be the same or better. To me the only ones punished are half sci half tac who will have to sacrifice defense to maintain. The old system was better for people like me because of the ability to completely ignore several unnecessary nodes. Now, with much fewer nodes there's not enough to sacrifice to replicate what I had. An assault on FAW would have to include a 'normalization' of weapons power or diminishing returns on consoles or sro. We see nothing like that here. In fact quite the opposite.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Tribble (211 partg/epg, 125 aux power, t4 ship)
365 Tyken’s Rift 2 (now a ~60% reduction from live)
743 Destabilizing Resonance Beam 2 (now a ~35% reduction from live)
1495 Gravity Well 3 has stayed the same (still a ~10% increase from live)
902 Tractor Beam Repulsors 1 (now a ~30% reduction from live)
Tried to get the comparisons closer than last time. Hopefully Aux power gets sorted out soon. Hazard Emitters and Aux to SIF, etc. are still at their low rates from the previous patch as well.
Thank you for posting numbers!
If it isn't too much, could you compare at 100 aux for now to see how the "normalization" of EPG effects affected the said skills. Please remember to unslot traits (like Nukara Offense) and other things that affect damage (like Pirate BOffs) so that we can get a cleaner picture of the changes.
As for the last part of your comment, instead of looking at ways to force players into a build you all would like them to have, figure out the reason why players are ignoring torpedoes and start from there. Perhaps torpedoes need some adjustment? Carrot > stick.
As mentioned in my previous post, torpedos by themselves are pretty much fine now.
However there are two things that really annoy for Torps:
(i) the fact that you have to choose between either buffing your energy weapons or your torpedos via Consoles (primarily Tac Consoles, though Plasma Sci Consoles also only really help Energy Weapons. You can partially get around this with clever use of set bonuses, but that only currently really applies for Photon based Projectiles)
and
(ii) Limited Tactical BOFF ability slots
For the first, we could really use an (+All Weapons) Modifier on Tac Consoles. Make it slightly lower than +Beam or +Cannon Modifiers and call it good.
As for the second, IMO it's long past time that Weapon firing modes such as basic +THY and +TS were made inherent to the Weapon rather than set up as BOFF abilities. Upgrades to buff these modes (e.g. turning the inherent THY into THY2 or 3) could scale with weapon rarity or be built into the new captain skilltree.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think torpedoes are broken either. I was more looking to convey that the method of determining why torpedoes aren't desired may not be the right way.
True that.
Would it be cynical of me to point out that if they really wanted to change the all-beams-constant-FAW-spam meta they could always just make the next random-enemy-group-of-the-month drop Aceton Assimilators everywhere...?
Energy weapons arent king because of BFAW (though it is a rather large portion of it). Energy is king because hybridizing is actively punishing players. Even a rainbow build will do more damage than a hybrid energy/projectile build. And that because torpedoes are so massively neutered by shields.
Going to stop and correct you right there. While I'm not in the top DPSers in the game, I am certainly among the top DPSers in our entire playerbase. That said, I deal a pitiful 36k with a beam boat cruiser, and a significant 54k with a torp/beam hybrid on the same toon (Rom Tac) with nearly the same equipment. It's not hard, it's not even terribly difficult. The only thing that torpedos have to overcome is shields, you are correct, but that is terribly easy to do so now. Torps are not in the same boat they were in a year ago, and its foolish to think they are. I'm extremely curious to see what my hybrid will do after I can port my toon to the test server, but just from what I've seen so far, I'm guessing this will be approximately a 20% increase in my DPS just from the skill system revamp.
What you're decrying is 'lost points' that must be spent on Torp skills that you view as wasted. And yes, I'm positive there are alot of people (Not a significant portion of the playerbase as a whole, but alot none the less) heavily invested in all beam cruisers that will cry about the same thing, then suck it up and move on. For those players who play the game because of the LP and not really caring if they place in the top 100 on the DPS league, those who smash buttons, and those who can do everything in this game that the want, access all the content they want, and just enjoy playing the game; those 'lost skill points' won't be lost at all, and what they will see is a net increase in their performance.
Just like Cannons 4 years ago and Plasma doping 2 years ago vanished and arrays took over for DBBs as the min/maxers choice. Energy/Torp Hybrids will become more and more popular after this change. And everything that's been said by the devs is that they want this to happen, so stop trying to fight against the inevitable.
Or, as the Borg would say, 'Resistance is Futile.'
The suggestion we made turns the choices from a meaningless choice to a useful choice. (this is in reference to the energy and projectile choices).
I completely disagree, and am frankly a bit surprised that nobody else is so far seeing the opposite side of this.
If a player isn't using Projectiles, then maybe unlocking a choice between two different improvements to that mechanic might make them think about changing that external choice. Similarly, if somebody is using only Energy Weapons, then being asked to choose which aspect of that system they want to improve is exactly the sort of choice-with-consequences that generates a sense of agency and meaningfulness within that choice.
So instead of offering a reward to make a different choice, your offering forfeiture and penalty to try and force a different choice. Maybe you should stick with more math and less psychology.
Conversely, if they were split up into two nodes of "Projectile vs. Energy" then guess which ones would be meaninglessly ignored by the majority of the playerbase.
Because you've made projectiles a sub-optimal choice. Make projectiles an equally effective alternative, problem solved. The problem isn't the players choices, it's developer choices resulting in imbalance throughout the games systems.
I completely disagree, and am frankly a bit surprised that nobody else is so far seeing the opposite side of this.
If a player isn't using Projectiles, then maybe unlocking a choice between two different improvements to that mechanic might make them think about changing that external choice. Similarly, if somebody is using only Energy Weapons, then being asked to choose which aspect of that system they want to improve is exactly the sort of choice-with-consequences that generates a sense of agency and meaningfulness within that choice.
Conversely, if they were split up into two nodes of "Projectile vs. Energy" then guess which ones would be meaninglessly ignored by the majority of the playerbase.
That ought to be telling you something very loud and clear about how this revised system was designed. I don't mean that in a nasty way, just pointing out that what you are all envisioning as the way players think isn't correct.
As for the last part of your comment, instead of looking at ways to force players into a build you all would like them to have, figure out the reason why players are ignoring torpedoes and start from there. Perhaps torpedoes need some adjustment? Carrot > stick.
The problem is the new systems doesn't seem to have been designed to match the reasoning we have been given for the design. From a "being asked to choose which aspect of that system they want to improve is exactly the sort of choice-with-consequences that generates a sense of agency and meaningfulness within that choice." point a point of view the new system is worse then the old system in areas. There are two many stages in the new systems that are more frustrating for the player and to many areas that have less meaningful choices. The new systems in areas at the moment fails at a of choice-with-consequences & meaningfulness within that choice.
That's not to say the new system is bad. With a few small tweaks it can be made better then the old system but right now areas of the new system are frustrating and the meaningful choices are not working or not balanced very well.
Bort, has there been any consideration into changing the way overcapping works, I've read on the forums where its possible to overcap your weapons energy to 170+ so basically all your beam weapons [since it seems to mostly apply to beam users] are at a constant 125 power rating [if you have enough eps rating]? in connection what is the perceived optimum DPS gameplay wise from a DEV view [so the content is enjoyable without being a drag]?
I think you stated earlier in the thread that >10k can complete all the content if so it seems that reigning in some things that allow players to achieve >100k [sustained it would seem, by all the 1-2min CCA/ISA vids - although I think I saw a torp or 2 in the CCA vids ] would be counter to the original gameplay design. Also, have you thought about giving more NPCs the Queen Diamonds/Terran Empires ability to use multiple boff/console abilities, for example Feedback pulse and Kinetic reflection if you decide to revisit Elite ques?
Skimming 14 pages here, but first thought days later
SPACE
Tree and change overall it is "fine", not great not terrible. Most things there are there, new additions are interesting options. Text is generally helpful, power examples are appropriate. Some options might be something missing or hiding very well .. not sure I found all the integrated science power boosts yet.
In the past I always thought the skill tree provided alot of flexibility and options, with free points to play around after a base build and the usual assortment of 'fine I'll take 3 random ticks here to open up the next level', i got plenty.
Rebuilding a test captain, with new system I felt restricted, with a lack of points .. I wanted at least 4 to 6 more to even get the minimum what I wanted [So yay for good options at least]. So I got curious and rand the numbers that others have ran 5 days ago .. I get:
NEW: There are 110 Skill Nodes in total, separated as 90 Space and 20 Ground. We get: 46 and 10
That makes the tree coverage 46/90 or 51% coverage
OLD: Being as fair as I can, forming the current skill tree in to a 3 node system (deleting the Stealth, threat, driver coil, and batteries since they don't exist now), totaled 93 nodes, and 90 without attack patterns (AP) which is "free" now
Distributing points as evenly as possible (obeying access restrictions) gave me: All 24 skills up to captain to +6 (full yellow) for 48 nodes, and 5/7 skills green on admiral (5 nodes).
This gives 53/93 nodes: 55% coverage
w/o AP 50/90 nodes: 55% coverage
Confirming my feeling, tree coverage is reduced 46/90 vs 50/90 .. 4 points .. right on my "feeling"
In fact trying the same with a focused system, being as expensive as I can be (even over using ground nodes) : 50/90 space nodes (nearly 51)
Summary: Basically very difficult to replicate a 'Generic Yellow" captain build, there is not enough points to tick level 2 in each tree, even if you take 1 point when the tree splits.
Proposal: Raise space to min. 50 purchasable nodes total to match % coverage with old system. 55 would be cool to . Problem: Exotic particle text has no power examples, text basically rambles "everything not mentioned anywhere else", true but not helpful Problem: I only revived the 'you unlocked Boff training powers' message once. And it actually took a bit to realize they were unlocking with those little bubbles at the bottom
b]Ground[/b]
I just open the tree and it seems underwhelming and tiny, but 50% of the tree was kit skills, and the first blocks everywhere are a significant boost .. so the reduction is expected. My reaction is "meh" of disappointment, an equivalent but more blocky tree would be give more wiggle room (and look more whelming)
Looking at the old system I was able to cover 17/30 (and I'm including threat here!) for 56% of the tree, with ease (had ground points left). 10/20 is cutting it very thin for ground characters, and feels very restrictive. I'll rate it as 'just adequate' for space characters, but we can't swap points now so
So @borticuscryptic Proposal: Boost here too, not much wiggle room 12 .. 13. I'd love 15 .. but that's greedy
This might be a dumb question, but how do I know how much of X skill I have? Were the skill stats removed from the character status screen? It's kind of annoying having to hand calc how much of X skill I have.
This might be a dumb question, but how do I know how much of X skill I have? Were the skill stats removed from the character status screen? It's kind of annoying having to hand calc how much of X skill I have.
i think they said that ui is still being work on and update and will be back
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
As mentioned in my previous post, torpedos by themselves are pretty much fine now.
However there are two things that really annoy for Torps:
(i) the fact that you have to choose between either buffing your energy weapons or your torpedos via Consoles (primarily Tac Consoles, though Plasma Sci Consoles also only really help Energy Weapons. You can partially get around this with clever use of set bonuses, but that only currently really applies for Photon based Projectiles)
and
(ii) Limited Tactical BOFF ability slots
For the first, we could really use an (+All Weapons) Modifier on Tac Consoles. Make it slightly lower than +Beam or +Cannon Modifiers and call it good.
As for the second, IMO it's long past time that Weapon firing modes such as basic +THY and +TS were made inherent to the Weapon rather than set up as BOFF abilities. Upgrades to buff these modes (e.g. turning the inherent THY into THY2 or 3) could scale with weapon rarity or be built into the new captain skilltree.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think torpedoes are broken either. I was more looking to convey that the method of determining why torpedoes aren't desired may not be the right way.
I disagree, while photon and quantum and transphasics aren't. The destructible kind are next to pointless in this aoe meta and if aoe abilities that can be chained like fire at will can't target them then they would be in better place. They are not like carrier fighter which now can be buffed in hp and be healed, or made immune. If there was engineering or science or tactical ability which could make them un-targetable that could be chained with the right setup then that would solve a lot of their problems. Perhaps a star ship trait that can cloak them. That way someone with high perception could get rid of them but other wise they would come alot closer before they are seen.
Proposal: Raise space to min. 50 purchasable nodes total to match % coverage with old system. 55 would be cool to .
This would cause additional issues. It's being considered, but is unlikely to happen. If we increase the number of points available, it will likely only go up by 1-2, not 5-10.
Problem: Exotic particle text has no power examples, text basically rambles "everything not mentioned anywhere else", true but not helpful
Examples have been proven to cause more issues than they solve, as players have interpreted it as "it only affects the listed powers" and we're not going to list them all, nor update such a list as new affected abilities are released.
That said, we're considering options to potentially flag/tag those affected powers in a more visible way. This is unlikely to happen as part of the initial roll-out of 11.5, though.
Problem: I only revived the 'you unlocked Boff training powers' message once. And it actually took a bit to realize they were unlocking with those little bubbles at the bottom
I think this is something folks will become accustomed to. It's a change, so you didn't expect it, but it's pretty obvious/understandable once you recognize it.
Looking at the old system I was able to cover 17/30 (and I'm including threat here!) for 56% of the tree, with ease (had ground points left). 10/20 is cutting it very thin for ground characters, and feels very restrictive. I'll rate it as 'just adequate' for space characters, but we can't swap points now so
Where did you get 30? There were only 10 Ground Skills in the old system.
That said, we're considering options to potentially flag/tag those affected powers in a more visible way. This is unlikely to happen as part of the initial roll-out of 11.5, though.
why not just reintroduce Exotic as a damage type and give it to the appropriate powers instead of the current Kinetic/Physical/Radiation/whatever they currently have? that'll solve any issue of what powers are considered Exotic and which aren't
or barring that, just include an Exotic tag after whatever damage type an exotic power currently has...so Isokinetic Cannon, for example, would go from X Kinetic Damage, 100% Shield Penetration
in its description to X Kinetic Damage (Exotic), 100% Shield Penetration
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Problem: I only revived the 'you unlocked Boff training powers' message once. And it actually took a bit to realize they were unlocking with those little bubbles at the bottom
I think this is something folks will become accustomed to. It's a change, so you didn't expect it, but it's pretty obvious/understandable once you recognize it.
Are you able to see how many people use using the passive bubbles and how many people are completely missing them? There is no indication I can see that lets you know they are clickable. Its way to easy to miss and if you miss them how can you get accustomed to using them? the bubbles look like an energized XP bar and in my limited sample size most people are not realizing they are clickable passive powers. I missed them myself the first few times around it was only because I read the forums I learnt about them. As I understand it most players don't read the forums so how do those in game know? In short they look to much like an XP bar and not enough like a clickable option. More so when you play at a high resolution.
I cannot help but wonder how many new players will work it out and how many will miss them. Perhaps I am wrong, how do other people feel about the passive bubbles? Did you realize you could click them yourself or did you only find out by reading this forum?
Problem: I only revived the 'you unlocked Boff training powers' message once. And it actually took a bit to realize they were unlocking with those little bubbles at the bottom
I think this is something folks will become accustomed to. It's a change, so you didn't expect it, but it's pretty obvious/understandable once you recognize it.
Are you able to see how many people use using the passive bubbles and how many people are completely missing them? There is no indication I can see that lets you know they are clickable. Its way to easy to miss and if you miss them how can you get accustomed to using them? the bubbles look like an energized XP bar and in my limited sample size most people are not realizing they are clickable passive powers. I missed them myself the first few times around it was only because I read the forums I learnt about them. As I understand it most players don't read the forums so how do those in game know? In short they look to much like an XP bar and not enough like a clickable option. More so when you play at a high resolution.
I cannot help but wonder how many new players will work it out and how many will miss them. Perhaps I am wrong, how do other people feel about the passive bubbles? Did you realize you could click them yourself or did you only find out by reading this forum?
I saw them immediately, so I can not concur your assessment. Though I think perhaps they could have more visible ques, might help some players. Like perhaps make the bubble grow and shrink along with flash, along with adding to tutorial text.
Tribble (211 partg/epg, 125 aux power, t4 ship)
365 Tyken’s Rift 2 (now a ~60% reduction from live)
743 Destabilizing Resonance Beam 2 (now a ~35% reduction from live)
1495 Gravity Well 3 has stayed the same (still a ~10% increase from live)
902 Tractor Beam Repulsors 1 (now a ~30% reduction from live)
Tried to get the comparisons closer than last time. Hopefully Aux power gets sorted out soon. Hazard Emitters and Aux to SIF, etc. are still at their low rates from the previous patch as well.
The problem is people running high aux and not enough in weapons. Science skills alone are not going to pull great dps numbers, Even when Aux does properly buff those abilities listed, weapons should always be at 125. Personally, on my paradox, I run 125 weapons and 90 aux. Plasmonic leech and other abilities have my aux to 125 in no time. FAW will gladly provide DPS in conjunction with GW, UV, etc. Sustaining 65-75k in Advanced/Elite content speaks for itself.
So did my own testing on Tribble regarding Energy Siphon. Why the heavy handed nerf to science? On to Tyken's testing, although I don't have access to Tyken's 3 since I'd have to go farm mats to get it.
Problem: Exotic particle text has no power examples, text basically rambles "everything not mentioned anywhere else", true but not helpful
Examples have been proven to cause more issues than they solve, as players have interpreted it as "it only affects the listed powers" and we're not going to list them all, nor update such a list as new affected abilities are released.
That said, we're considering options to potentially flag/tag those affected powers in a more visible way. This is unlikely to happen as part of the initial roll-out of 11.5, though.
That said, we're considering options to potentially flag/tag those affected powers in a more visible way. This is unlikely to happen as part of the initial roll-out of 11.5, though.
why not just reintroduce Exotic as a damage type and give it to the appropriate powers instead of the current Kinetic/Physical/Radiation/whatever they currently have? that'll solve any issue of what powers are considered Exotic and which aren't
or barring that, just include an Exotic tag after whatever damage type an exotic power currently has...so Isokinetic Cannon, for example, would go from X Kinetic Damage, 100% Shield Penetration
in its description to X Kinetic Damage (Exotic), 100% Shield Penetration
This would be wonderful to have on each power's tooltip. An Exotic label similar to the Expose and Exploit that used to (sometimes?) show up on ground powers.
I cannot help but wonder how many new players will work it out and how many will miss them. Perhaps I am wrong, how do other people feel about the passive bubbles? Did you realize you could click them yourself or did you only find out by reading this forum?
I saw them glowing and figured I could do something with them.
This might be a dumb question, but how do I know how much of X skill I have? Were the skill stats removed from the character status screen? It's kind of annoying having to hand calc how much of X skill I have.
The old skill window was removed. We currently plan to add the stat window back once it is referencing the new skills correctly.
Bort is still defending a bad design choice behind the veil of player agency, when the bad design choice is, in fact, limiting player agency more than it is allowing it.
One of my fleet mates touched on that, sort of, in a notable way.
"When people are on the same job for a long time, they become too comfortable and then they get over-confident."
This was their observation with STO:
"The team has become more accustomed to making the game how they want it, instead of listening to what the players want. This was a similar issue with the "City Of" franchise until Jack "Statesman" Emmert left. If you want to keep players playing, take their feedback seriously."
Food for thought, I guess. Nonetheless, this isn't being dealt with pragmatically and I honestly think rushing this for the spring instead of fall is folly. There's not enough time to work out the details and fix bugs before spring, and fixing bugs has been the biggest gripe players seem to have, lately. This really, really needs more time in testing and tweaking.
Old Energy Siphon equations vs new ones. Cutting the slope of the equations in half for the drain led to the bad reductions on the high end of things. You can also notice why the extreme reduction in time duration because of Aux since the Y intercept was drastically reduced along with the slope.
Can we please go back to the original equations @borticuscryptic?
I'd like an answer to the energy siphon nerf as well.
Also, why are insulators included with drain? (This is more an issue with pvp I would imagine but still ) that's like giving two people fire and water and told to fight. My water will destroy your fire, but your water will destroy my fire. (Sorry, I'm sure there are better illustrations, right now that's all I've got)
Comments
Console cooldown reductions.
Holodeck(214 partg/epg, 127 aux power, t4 ship)
894 Tyken’s Rift 2
1139 Destabilizing Resonance Beam 2
1346 Gravity Well 3
1259 Tractor Beam Repulsors 1
Tribble (211 partg/epg, 125 aux power, t4 ship)
365 Tyken’s Rift 2 (now a ~60% reduction from live)
743 Destabilizing Resonance Beam 2 (now a ~35% reduction from live)
1495 Gravity Well 3 has stayed the same (still a ~10% increase from live)
902 Tractor Beam Repulsors 1 (now a ~30% reduction from live)
Tried to get the comparisons closer than last time. Hopefully Aux power gets sorted out soon. Hazard Emitters and Aux to SIF, etc. are still at their low rates from the previous patch as well.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Thank you for posting numbers!
If it isn't too much, could you compare at 100 aux for now to see how the "normalization" of EPG effects affected the said skills. Please remember to unslot traits (like Nukara Offense) and other things that affect damage (like Pirate BOffs) so that we can get a cleaner picture of the changes.
Once again, thanks!
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
As mentioned in my previous post, torpedos by themselves are pretty much fine now.
However there are two things that really annoy for Torps:
(i) the fact that you have to choose between either buffing your energy weapons or your torpedos via Consoles (primarily Tac Consoles, though Plasma Sci Consoles also only really help Energy Weapons. You can partially get around this with clever use of set bonuses, but that only currently really applies for Photon based Projectiles)
and
(ii) Limited Tactical BOFF ability slots
For the first, we could really use an (+All Weapons) Modifier on Tac Consoles. Make it slightly lower than +Beam or +Cannon Modifiers and call it good.
As for the second, IMO it's long past time that Weapon firing modes such as basic +THY and +TS were made inherent to the Weapon rather than set up as BOFF abilities. Upgrades to buff these modes (e.g. turning the inherent THY into THY2 or 3) could scale with weapon rarity or be built into the new captain skilltree.
True that.
Would it be cynical of me to point out that if they really wanted to change the all-beams-constant-FAW-spam meta they could always just make the next random-enemy-group-of-the-month drop Aceton Assimilators everywhere...?
(hee!)
Going to stop and correct you right there. While I'm not in the top DPSers in the game, I am certainly among the top DPSers in our entire playerbase. That said, I deal a pitiful 36k with a beam boat cruiser, and a significant 54k with a torp/beam hybrid on the same toon (Rom Tac) with nearly the same equipment. It's not hard, it's not even terribly difficult. The only thing that torpedos have to overcome is shields, you are correct, but that is terribly easy to do so now. Torps are not in the same boat they were in a year ago, and its foolish to think they are. I'm extremely curious to see what my hybrid will do after I can port my toon to the test server, but just from what I've seen so far, I'm guessing this will be approximately a 20% increase in my DPS just from the skill system revamp.
What you're decrying is 'lost points' that must be spent on Torp skills that you view as wasted. And yes, I'm positive there are alot of people (Not a significant portion of the playerbase as a whole, but alot none the less) heavily invested in all beam cruisers that will cry about the same thing, then suck it up and move on. For those players who play the game because of the LP and not really caring if they place in the top 100 on the DPS league, those who smash buttons, and those who can do everything in this game that the want, access all the content they want, and just enjoy playing the game; those 'lost skill points' won't be lost at all, and what they will see is a net increase in their performance.
Just like Cannons 4 years ago and Plasma doping 2 years ago vanished and arrays took over for DBBs as the min/maxers choice. Energy/Torp Hybrids will become more and more popular after this change. And everything that's been said by the devs is that they want this to happen, so stop trying to fight against the inevitable.
Or, as the Borg would say, 'Resistance is Futile.'
So instead of offering a reward to make a different choice, your offering forfeiture and penalty to try and force a different choice. Maybe you should stick with more math and less psychology.
Because you've made projectiles a sub-optimal choice. Make projectiles an equally effective alternative, problem solved. The problem isn't the players choices, it's developer choices resulting in imbalance throughout the games systems.
That's not to say the new system is bad. With a few small tweaks it can be made better then the old system but right now areas of the new system are frustrating and the meaningful choices are not working or not balanced very well.
I think you stated earlier in the thread that >10k can complete all the content if so it seems that reigning in some things that allow players to achieve >100k [sustained it would seem, by all the 1-2min CCA/ISA vids - although I think I saw a torp or 2 in the CCA vids
SPACE
Tree and change overall it is "fine", not great not terrible. Most things there are there, new additions are interesting options. Text is generally helpful, power examples are appropriate. Some options might be something missing or hiding very well .. not sure I found all the integrated science power boosts yet.
In the past I always thought the skill tree provided alot of flexibility and options, with free points to play around after a base build and the usual assortment of 'fine I'll take 3 random ticks here to open up the next level', i got plenty.
Rebuilding a test captain, with new system I felt restricted, with a lack of points .. I wanted at least 4 to 6 more to even get the minimum what I wanted [So yay for good options at least]. So I got curious and rand the numbers that others have ran 5 days ago .. I get:
NEW: There are 110 Skill Nodes in total, separated as 90 Space and 20 Ground. We get: 46 and 10
That makes the tree coverage 46/90 or 51% coverage
OLD: Being as fair as I can, forming the current skill tree in to a 3 node system (deleting the Stealth, threat, driver coil, and batteries since they don't exist now), totaled 93 nodes, and 90 without attack patterns (AP) which is "free" now
Distributing points as evenly as possible (obeying access restrictions) gave me: All 24 skills up to captain to +6 (full yellow) for 48 nodes, and 5/7 skills green on admiral (5 nodes).
This gives 53/93 nodes: 55% coverage
w/o AP 50/90 nodes: 55% coverage
Confirming my feeling, tree coverage is reduced 46/90 vs 50/90 .. 4 points .. right on my "feeling"
In fact trying the same with a focused system, being as expensive as I can be (even over using ground nodes) : 50/90 space nodes (nearly 51)
Summary: Basically very difficult to replicate a 'Generic Yellow" captain build, there is not enough points to tick level 2 in each tree, even if you take 1 point when the tree splits.
So @borticuscryptic
Proposal: Raise space to min. 50 purchasable nodes total to match % coverage with old system. 55 would be cool to
Problem: Exotic particle text has no power examples, text basically rambles "everything not mentioned anywhere else", true but not helpful
Problem: I only revived the 'you unlocked Boff training powers' message once. And it actually took a bit to realize they were unlocking with those little bubbles at the bottom
b]Ground[/b]
I just open the tree and it seems underwhelming and tiny, but 50% of the tree was kit skills, and the first blocks everywhere are a significant boost .. so the reduction is expected. My reaction is "meh" of disappointment, an equivalent but more blocky tree would be give more wiggle room (and look more whelming)
Looking at the old system I was able to cover 17/30 (and I'm including threat here!) for 56% of the tree, with ease (had ground points left). 10/20 is cutting it very thin for ground characters, and feels very restrictive. I'll rate it as 'just adequate' for space characters, but we can't swap points now so
So @borticuscryptic
Proposal: Boost here too, not much wiggle room 12 .. 13. I'd love 15 .. but that's greedy
i think they said that ui is still being work on and update and will be back
I disagree, while photon and quantum and transphasics aren't. The destructible kind are next to pointless in this aoe meta and if aoe abilities that can be chained like fire at will can't target them then they would be in better place. They are not like carrier fighter which now can be buffed in hp and be healed, or made immune. If there was engineering or science or tactical ability which could make them un-targetable that could be chained with the right setup then that would solve a lot of their problems. Perhaps a star ship trait that can cloak them. That way someone with high perception could get rid of them but other wise they would come alot closer before they are seen.
This would cause additional issues. It's being considered, but is unlikely to happen. If we increase the number of points available, it will likely only go up by 1-2, not 5-10.
Examples have been proven to cause more issues than they solve, as players have interpreted it as "it only affects the listed powers" and we're not going to list them all, nor update such a list as new affected abilities are released.
That said, we're considering options to potentially flag/tag those affected powers in a more visible way. This is unlikely to happen as part of the initial roll-out of 11.5, though.
I think this is something folks will become accustomed to. It's a change, so you didn't expect it, but it's pretty obvious/understandable once you recognize it.
Where did you get 30? There were only 10 Ground Skills in the old system.
I think I can say pretty safely that any increase to Ground Points is unlikely to occur.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
why not just reintroduce Exotic as a damage type and give it to the appropriate powers instead of the current Kinetic/Physical/Radiation/whatever they currently have? that'll solve any issue of what powers are considered Exotic and which aren't
or barring that, just include an Exotic tag after whatever damage type an exotic power currently has...so Isokinetic Cannon, for example, would go from X Kinetic Damage, 100% Shield Penetration
in its description to X Kinetic Damage (Exotic), 100% Shield Penetration
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I cannot help but wonder how many new players will work it out and how many will miss them. Perhaps I am wrong, how do other people feel about the passive bubbles? Did you realize you could click them yourself or did you only find out by reading this forum?
The problem is people running high aux and not enough in weapons. Science skills alone are not going to pull great dps numbers, Even when Aux does properly buff those abilities listed, weapons should always be at 125. Personally, on my paradox, I run 125 weapons and 90 aux. Plasmonic leech and other abilities have my aux to 125 in no time. FAW will gladly provide DPS in conjunction with GW, UV, etc. Sustaining 65-75k in Advanced/Elite content speaks for itself.
Tribble with reduction % from Holodeck
Drain 395.8
Siphon1 - 26.8 = -40% drain
Siphon2 - 35.8 = -40% drain
Siphon3 - 44.7 = -40% drain
Drain 205.6
Siphon1 - 18.3 = -33% drain
Siphon2 - 24.3 = -33% drain
Siphon3 - 30.4 = -33% drain
Drain 100
Siphon1 - 13.5 = -25% drain
Siphon2 - 18.0 = -25% drain
Siphon3 - 22.5 = -25% drain
Aux 33
Siphon duration - 4.3 sec = -61% duration
Aux 68
Siphon duration - 7.8 sec = -50% duration
Aux 125
Siphon duration - 12.6 sec = -46% duration
Holodeck
Flow caps 395.8
Siphon1 - 44.6
Siphon2 - 59.5
Siphon3 - 74.4
Flow caps 205.6
Siphon1 - 27.5
Siphon2 - 36.7
Siphon3 - 45.8
Flow caps 100
Siphon1 - 18.0
Siphon2 - 24.0
Siphon3 - 30.0
Aux 33
Siphon duration - 11.1 sec
Aux 68
Siphon duration - 15.7 sec
Aux 125
Siphon duration - 23.3 sec
This would be wonderful to have on each power's tooltip. An Exotic label similar to the Expose and Exploit that used to (sometimes?) show up on ground powers.
I saw them glowing and figured I could do something with them.
The old skill window was removed. We currently plan to add the stat window back once it is referencing the new skills correctly.
One of my fleet mates touched on that, sort of, in a notable way.
"When people are on the same job for a long time, they become too comfortable and then they get over-confident."
This was their observation with STO:
"The team has become more accustomed to making the game how they want it, instead of listening to what the players want. This was a similar issue with the "City Of" franchise until Jack "Statesman" Emmert left. If you want to keep players playing, take their feedback seriously."
Food for thought, I guess. Nonetheless, this isn't being dealt with pragmatically and I honestly think rushing this for the spring instead of fall is folly. There's not enough time to work out the details and fix bugs before spring, and fixing bugs has been the biggest gripe players seem to have, lately. This really, really needs more time in testing and tweaking.
I suggested a couple pages back, go from 46/10 to 48/12. An extra 2 poiints in both space and ground would make a reasonable difference.
Can we please go back to the original equations @borticuscryptic?
ES1
Holodeck - 0.09 *Flow +9
Tribble - 0.045*Drain+9
ES2
Holodeck - 0.12 *Flow +12
Tribble - 0.06 *Drain+12
ES3
Holodeck - 0.15 *Flow +15
Tribble - 0.075*Drain+15
Time duration
Holodeck (approx) = 0.133*Aux+6.665
Tribble (apporx) = 0.09*Aux+1.5
Also, why are insulators included with drain? (This is more an issue with pvp I would imagine but still ) that's like giving two people fire and water and told to fight. My water will destroy your fire, but your water will destroy my fire. (Sorry, I'm sure there are better illustrations, right now that's all I've got)