I've noticed that quite a few Fed frigate mobs have really high HP on Tribble. The mob after that CBC have 23k each. At L45, the Mirror Frigates in Jabberwocky have ~110k each.
I'm just picking up on this feedback. While not Skill Revamp related, it might be a symptom of some of the large-scale changes that were made to facilitate it.
So, I'd like additional information if anyone has it.
- Does the statement above "after that CBC" refer to the KDF Tutorial, still? There's a Frigate in there with >20k HPs?!
- Has anyone else experienced what this poster is referring to?
- Is this happening anywhere else in the game?
Hmmm... before you start fiddling too hard with this stuff....
I thought I should mention: when I ran the "Space Chase" with my KDF Eng on Tribble....he had just unlocked his first skill point which I stuffed in "Projectile Weapons Training". I KEPT MY TORP on board and I swapped the original DHC to the DHC Mark 2 (which was the prize from leveling or loot, from an earlier mission).
And once I got my head out of my backside, concerning my power levels having to be adjusted manually....and having to run away to heal more often.... I did not have as much problems with killing the last set of ships.
I would check to see how many people added their skill points into "Energy Weapons Training", removed the torpedo and went with two DHC, thinking this may be "better"? This would be a hold over from Holodeck and the "don't use torpedoes" mentality over there? Not to say that is wrong for Holodeck at level 50-60. But it is another angle that can be looked at.
Granted, I didn't know to look at the "hit points" on the enemy ships...I just go kill whatever is in front of me. LOL! Someone posted a pic for me, so I will check it on the computer, later...screen here is too small to see details.
I DO remember telling my friend on FB, that I thought my torpedoes were firing much more often on Tribble than they did on Holodeck. And I was having a BLAST in "Space Chase". I would hate to see this "fixed" right out of existance if it is working like it is supposed to be.
I DO NOT KNOW if this is because of adding to the "Projectile Weapons Training" skill OR because I am used to running Hargh'Peng on Holodeck (has a longer clock on it than most torpedoes).
I dismissed it as: being used to the timing on Hargh'Peng torpedoes.
I did not go on Tribble to do any leveling yesterday....I was more interested in participating in the last day of Omega scanning. I will try to play with my new characters when I find a block of time.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
exactly, greedy people will benefit from that big time, selling manuals for Prices way up there. If you guys cant come up with a solution than the easiest thing to do is, just unlock all Manuals, tac can craft all tac manuals, eng all eng manuals and sci all sci manuals, its not like this will make us SUPER DUPER overpowered or otherwise totally benefits us and the Issue would be no more.
You mean exactly how we do that with the Pilot, Intelligence, and Command Specializations? You reach 22 points and all the Lt. Commander and Commander Manuals are unlocked that you can't already buy from the Skill Trainer. Funny how we can do this for an 'off' career specialization path but not the actual Career Path we went to the Academy for, etc. Also while fooling around with adding and subtracting Manuals don't take away the ones we have learned from Lockboxes or FEs by mistake.
I mean why make this complicated just unlock all appropriate Science if 22 points into Science tree, etc. for the others. You cannot unlock Tac or Engineering Books if you are Science, etc.
EXACTLY, with the Specializations Manual unlocks its no Issue that we can unlock them ALL, but for whatever reason unlocking ALL the Manuals from your OWN Carrer is an Issue? Esspecially if with the system RIGHT NOW its NOT an Issue since we can exactly do that??? Yea sure choices have to be made, choices need to have consequences.....BUT in this case we are talking about MANUALS, something that does NOT affect the efficience of a character at all, the effect is, that with the new System we need THREE Characters PER Carrer instead of only ONE to be able to Unlock ALL Manuals, so that would be 9 in total if you want all eng/tac and sci Manuals......and if you dont create those extra characters than another effect will be that you now suddenly have to pay for the Manuals that you were able to Craft yourself....greedy People will be happy to sell you those Manuals for totaly Overpriced....so is THAT the Consequence that we have to accept when we choose?
I asked it before and i do it again: WHY?????
The New Skill System is allready something that will take time to get used to it, and that not everyone likes, BUT why do you guys have to Nerf the Manual System too????
Lately my Motivation to play STO sunk considerably, to many negative changes, not enough new stuff, GRIND and so on, and with changes (NERFES) like that this wont get any better, you wanted us to give you feedback, thats what we do, so i say again, PLEASE TAKE IT SERIOUS.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event and mission rewards!!
Yeah - unless the devs wanted to force players to make alt toons.... because character slots costs Zen (and money)....
The Exchange is available for everyone, and there are plenty of Rank III skills available there, and will continue to be so. Unless there turns out be some skill that everyone wanted but no one picked, it will probably stay that way.
I don't use much of the "MMO" aspects of this game, but it still is an MMO. You don't have to be self-sufficient.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
with the new System we need THREE Characters PER Carrer instead of only ONE to be able to Unlock ALL Manuals, so that would be 9 in total if you want all eng/tac and sci Manuals......
Actually, not STRICTLY true... If you are purely talking about 'mules' you can do it with 2 of each career (46 skill points, so 22 in 2 paths of your choice, with 4 left over.) hey, you could probably make some really fun builds that way too... Mega-tank (eng/sci) or fleet support carrier (sci/tac)
Oh great, there i go... Having ideas again
Real Temporal Operative: Purchased the Special Temporal Agent pack before it was even officially announced!
Quick FYI on the Training Manuals front: I recently reduced all of their Points Spent requirements by 5, to make it easier to get a wider variety on a single character.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
well, that's a good compromise...nobody's going to be entirely happy, but no one will be overly upset either - which is the whole point of compromise
as an aside, is there any reason code-wise that manual unlocks can't be attached to skill unlocks in this system like they were attached to ranks in the old system?
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
as an aside, is there any reason code-wise that manual unlocks can't be attached to skill unlocks in this system like they were attached to ranks in the old system?
Yes. Not an insurmountable reason, but once we found this solution we chose to stick with it.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I think the BOff power unlocks would be a bit more palatable if a lot of them weren't wasted on skills you can't help but trip over on the exchange, especially when there are powers that either don't exist (A2B3), may as well not exist (PO3), or won't exist (HY3) that aren't on the unlock table.
Free jkname!
Can we get some more (canon) KDF outfits, an assortment of respectable skirts/dresses, a long jacket (and more clothes in general) that does plain white well, melee weapon and Mk 15 drops, a T6 Nova, and account-wide lockbox/lobi/promo ships & consoles? Oh, and...
Something definitely got broken with NPC's, KDF mission "Space Chase" I just faced 5 fed frigates with 23k hitpoints each, and one cruiser with 10K hitpoints, the frigates were cutting through my shields like a hot knife through butter while the cruiser was barely hurting me.
What's a ship without a crew? It was not well done, but at least it exists.
Don't kill them please! I don't want to command some scrap, but men (even they are only a number).
I was confident crew could be well adressed some day, not removed. What a let down..
@borticuscryptic any opinions on thoughts about amalgamating the torpedo and energy damage lines together?
As I mentioned previously, we'd be willing to consider this if we had any fantastic ideas for Skills to take the place of the 3 that would be removed. We haven't come up with anything appropriate internally, nor seen any such suggestions from players.
As it stands, this separation isn't really that bad in the bigger picture. The issues that cause Torpedoes to be unpopular would not be solved by combining the skills. Different measures would need to be taken to really shift the meta significantly.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Has anyone managed to test any of the ground kinetic weapons? Is it just bad wording in the skills or have we lost all damage boosts in the new skill tree?
As for mixing energy and torpedo's the problem isn’t in the skills it’s in the way tactical consoles are setup. Years ago mixing weapons was more common than the generic tactical consoles got changed so it wasn’t worth mixing anymore. The devs at the time decided mixing was bad and tried to push us away from that.
EDIT: “We haven't come up with anything appropriate internally, nor seen any such suggestions from players.”
What about something that boosted weapon range past 10km even if it has a negative like extra falloff damage. I never understand why the game is so focused around 10k weapons. It was add so many more interesting setups with lower damage much longer range weapons.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
As for mixing energy and torpedo's the problem isn’t in the skills it’s in the way tactical consoles are setup. Years ago mixing weapons was more common than the generic tactical consoles got changed so it wasn’t worth mixing anymore.
I sort of agree, I mean tactical consoles need looking at, I just don't think you should have to choose at any point. You should just have one skill that covers everything, and like you say consoles need to do that too. I just feel that as long as the game says 'you can have either energy or torps' and not 'we encourage all' we're going to be stuck at the same crossroads.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
- Increasing Weapon Range beyond 10km can't easily be done, and might break content and AI.
- Improving Mines is just as bad of an idea (if not worse) from the current split. Why would we replace one issue with another?
You're right that there have been suggestions. No great ones, though. Sorry.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
As it stands, this separation isn't really that bad in the bigger picture. The issues that cause Torpedoes to be unpopular would not be solved by combining the skills. Different measures would need to be taken to really shift the meta significantly.
Like giving Hull an Energy Resist the way that Shields do to Torpedoes.
One thing I'd like to know. Does the new skill tree have any relationship to NPC abilities? Now that we have new skills for things like shield penetration or shield hardness, does that mean we'll be seeing NPC ships with improvements to those too?
"Let me guess, my theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie" - The Doctor
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" -Agatha Heterodyne
One thing I'd like to know. Does the new skill tree have any relationship to NPC abilities? Now that we have new skills for things like shield penetration or shield hardness, does that mean we'll be seeing NPC ships with improvements to those too?
With extremely few exceptions, NPCs have no skills.
What you'll actually see from them as a result of this revamp, is that they will get less benefit from Shield Power and slightly more benefit from Aux Power. Also slightly more damage drop-off on their beam weapons, and slightly less for their cannons.
Basically, any core mechanic changes we've made will impact NPC performance. But Skill changes almost never will.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
One thing I'd like to know. Does the new skill tree have any relationship to NPC abilities? Now that we have new skills for things like shield penetration or shield hardness, does that mean we'll be seeing NPC ships with improvements to those too?
With extremely few exceptions, NPCs have no skills.
What you'll actually see from them as a result of this revamp, is that they will get less benefit from Shield Power and slightly more benefit from Aux Power. Also slightly more damage drop-off on their beam weapons, and slightly less for their cannons.
Basically, any core mechanic changes we've made will impact NPC performance. But Skill changes almost never will.
Ooh, so spec into your drop off range and learn to skim near the 10 km limit.
"Let me guess, my theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie" - The Doctor
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" -Agatha Heterodyne
Ok, training manuals on unlock paths is the only thing in the new system that I actively dislike, but... if there are technical reasons to keep it that way, I guess we'll have to do with what's on the table (and, with lowered requirements it might not be all that bad.)
Agreed, skills specifically targeting mines alone are a bad idea. If you think torpedo skills are worthless... I mean, they definitely could use some love, but I don't feel the skill trees are the place for it.
- Increasing Weapon Range beyond 10km can't easily be done, and might break content and AI.
- Improving Mines is just as bad of an idea (if not worse) from the current split. Why would we replace one issue with another?
You're right that there have been suggestions. No great ones, though. Sorry.
@borticuscryptic
Here is my (probably not great) attempt at a suggestion.
As far as I understand it, sybsystem targetting 1, 2, and 3 all have a 20% to disable. Their ranks only affect the power drain, which is affected by the science drain skill. The duration of the disable is affected by science control skill.
A new 3-rank skill could increase the probability of a successful disable by 8%, 4%, 2% leading to a total chance of 34% to disable. A nice, clean 1-in-3 chance when fully "specced" and offer a potential boost to science ships?
EDIT: Never mind. It appears ranks 2 and 3 already boost the chance. Ignore.
Comments
Hmmm... before you start fiddling too hard with this stuff....
I thought I should mention: when I ran the "Space Chase" with my KDF Eng on Tribble....he had just unlocked his first skill point which I stuffed in "Projectile Weapons Training". I KEPT MY TORP on board and I swapped the original DHC to the DHC Mark 2 (which was the prize from leveling or loot, from an earlier mission).
And once I got my head out of my backside, concerning my power levels having to be adjusted manually....and having to run away to heal more often.... I did not have as much problems with killing the last set of ships.
I would check to see how many people added their skill points into "Energy Weapons Training", removed the torpedo and went with two DHC, thinking this may be "better"? This would be a hold over from Holodeck and the "don't use torpedoes" mentality over there? Not to say that is wrong for Holodeck at level 50-60. But it is another angle that can be looked at.
Granted, I didn't know to look at the "hit points" on the enemy ships...I just go kill whatever is in front of me. LOL! Someone posted a pic for me, so I will check it on the computer, later...screen here is too small to see details.
I DO remember telling my friend on FB, that I thought my torpedoes were firing much more often on Tribble than they did on Holodeck. And I was having a BLAST in "Space Chase". I would hate to see this "fixed" right out of existance if it is working like it is supposed to be.
I DO NOT KNOW if this is because of adding to the "Projectile Weapons Training" skill OR because I am used to running Hargh'Peng on Holodeck (has a longer clock on it than most torpedoes).
I dismissed it as: being used to the timing on Hargh'Peng torpedoes.
I did not go on Tribble to do any leveling yesterday....I was more interested in participating in the last day of Omega scanning. I will try to play with my new characters when I find a block of time.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
EXACTLY, with the Specializations Manual unlocks its no Issue that we can unlock them ALL, but for whatever reason unlocking ALL the Manuals from your OWN Carrer is an Issue? Esspecially if with the system RIGHT NOW its NOT an Issue since we can exactly do that??? Yea sure choices have to be made, choices need to have consequences.....BUT in this case we are talking about MANUALS, something that does NOT affect the efficience of a character at all, the effect is, that with the new System we need THREE Characters PER Carrer instead of only ONE to be able to Unlock ALL Manuals, so that would be 9 in total if you want all eng/tac and sci Manuals......and if you dont create those extra characters than another effect will be that you now suddenly have to pay for the Manuals that you were able to Craft yourself....greedy People will be happy to sell you those Manuals for totaly Overpriced....so is THAT the Consequence that we have to accept when we choose?
I asked it before and i do it again: WHY?????
The New Skill System is allready something that will take time to get used to it, and that not everyone likes, BUT why do you guys have to Nerf the Manual System too????
Lately my Motivation to play STO sunk considerably, to many negative changes, not enough new stuff, GRIND and so on, and with changes (NERFES) like that this wont get any better, you wanted us to give you feedback, thats what we do, so i say again, PLEASE TAKE IT SERIOUS.
I don't use much of the "MMO" aspects of this game, but it still is an MMO. You don't have to be self-sufficient.
Actually, not STRICTLY true... If you are purely talking about 'mules' you can do it with 2 of each career (46 skill points, so 22 in 2 paths of your choice, with 4 left over.) hey, you could probably make some really fun builds that way too... Mega-tank (eng/sci) or fleet support carrier (sci/tac)
Oh great, there i go... Having ideas again
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
4th one from the bottom on the Dyson Rep store's science console tab:
as an aside, is there any reason code-wise that manual unlocks can't be attached to skill unlocks in this system like they were attached to ranks in the old system?
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Yes. Not an insurmountable reason, but once we found this solution we chose to stick with it.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
And Science Captains must invest in Engineering or Tactical to get Science manuals.
They are based on your profession. This allowed us to put more Abilities into the game that weren't previously available.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Can we get some more (canon) KDF outfits, an assortment of respectable skirts/dresses, a long jacket (and more clothes in general) that does plain white well, melee weapon and Mk 15 drops, a T6 Nova, and account-wide lockbox/lobi/promo ships & consoles? Oh, and...
From what I've seen the answer is no. I looked at the transfer page it still lists only Redshirt. Tribble is not on the dropdown list at all.
Don't kill them please! I don't want to command some scrap, but men (even they are only a number).
I was confident crew could be well adressed some day, not removed. What a let down..
Also can we get a threat toggle for ground like you've done with space? I don't want to see ground tanking eradicated.
As I mentioned previously, we'd be willing to consider this if we had any fantastic ideas for Skills to take the place of the 3 that would be removed. We haven't come up with anything appropriate internally, nor seen any such suggestions from players.
As it stands, this separation isn't really that bad in the bigger picture. The issues that cause Torpedoes to be unpopular would not be solved by combining the skills. Different measures would need to be taken to really shift the meta significantly.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
As for mixing energy and torpedo's the problem isn’t in the skills it’s in the way tactical consoles are setup. Years ago mixing weapons was more common than the generic tactical consoles got changed so it wasn’t worth mixing anymore. The devs at the time decided mixing was bad and tried to push us away from that.
EDIT: “We haven't come up with anything appropriate internally, nor seen any such suggestions from players.”
What about something that boosted weapon range past 10km even if it has a negative like extra falloff damage. I never understand why the game is so focused around 10k weapons. It was add so many more interesting setups with lower damage much longer range weapons.
what, my suggestion about skills that boost various aspects of mines wasn't good enough to be considered 'appropriate'?
and even aside from my suggestion, there have been SEVERAL from other players over the past several pages
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I sort of agree, I mean tactical consoles need looking at, I just don't think you should have to choose at any point. You should just have one skill that covers everything, and like you say consoles need to do that too. I just feel that as long as the game says 'you can have either energy or torps' and not 'we encourage all' we're going to be stuck at the same crossroads.
- Increasing Weapon Range beyond 10km can't easily be done, and might break content and AI.
- Improving Mines is just as bad of an idea (if not worse) from the current split. Why would we replace one issue with another?
You're right that there have been suggestions. No great ones, though. Sorry.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Like giving Hull an Energy Resist the way that Shields do to Torpedoes.
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" - Agatha Heterodyne
With extremely few exceptions, NPCs have no skills.
What you'll actually see from them as a result of this revamp, is that they will get less benefit from Shield Power and slightly more benefit from Aux Power. Also slightly more damage drop-off on their beam weapons, and slightly less for their cannons.
Basically, any core mechanic changes we've made will impact NPC performance. But Skill changes almost never will.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Ooh, so spec into your drop off range and learn to skim near the 10 km limit.
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" - Agatha Heterodyne
@borticuscryptic
Here is my (probably not great) attempt at a suggestion.
As far as I understand it, sybsystem targetting 1, 2, and 3 all have a 20% to disable. Their ranks only affect the power drain, which is affected by the science drain skill. The duration of the disable is affected by science control skill.
A new 3-rank skill could increase the probability of a successful disable by 8%, 4%, 2% leading to a total chance of 34% to disable. A nice, clean 1-in-3 chance when fully "specced" and offer a potential boost to science ships?
EDIT: Never mind. It appears ranks 2 and 3 already boost the chance. Ignore.