While it does make sense it is not logical..... My online time through PC up until this week was 20 minutes (this is tracked in the ARC Application) there is no way I have 5 toons to level 60 in 20 minutes of game time. They realized how much this would ultimately cost and are now looking for loop holes to get out of following through on their initial statements. They probably realized the Mac based users is larger than they initially though and are now looking at hurting their bottom line this quarter
No, it really doesn't make sense. I used an emulator only while the Mac client was broken, switching back the day it was fixed. It ran too poorly on my machine for gameplay other than playing the auction house.
Given the magnitude of the error they've made, having to can an entire platform, I think it's reasonable to expect them to err on the side of generosity rather than trying to exclude anyone they can possibly exclude.
While it does make sense it is not logical..... My online time through PC up until this week was 20 minutes (this is tracked in the ARC Application) there is no way I have 5 toons to level 60 in 20 minutes of game time. They realized how much this would ultimately cost and are now looking for loop holes to get out of following through on their initial statements. They probably realized the Mac based users is larger than they initially though and are now looking at hurting their bottom line this quarter
So where would you like them to draw the line?
They had to draw a line somewhere....
So where would you like them to draw the line?
They had to draw a line somewhere....
Look at each account and see where it stands maybe.... They have the ability to determine how many times we logged on and through which client and for how long. The also collect information on the operating system used for every user so if they identify a Mac user maybe look at the actual game time on a PC or PC emulator and then make a decision, as I previously said 20 minutes is not nearly enough time to get 5 toons to level 60
Like Eighrichte stated above some Mac users were using Wine or some other kind of emulator while the Mac client was not working, I luckily was on vacation during that time and it did not effect me.
This likely was in the plans for a while, maybe they intentionally broke the Mac client to get some users to use emulators so they could simply say you were not a strict Mac user so you don't qualify as a result they get to keep the money.
I would say: look at what people were using to log in BEFORE the client broke. After the client broke, it's natural to expect that people were exploring options — but unreasonable to expect that those options panned out successfully. Look at the browsers people use to log into their accounts. Look at when the user started playing — was it after the Mac client was released?
And perhaps most importantly, err on the side of the customer.
I would say: look at what people were using to log in BEFORE the client broke. After the client broke, it's natural to expect that people were exploring options — but unreasonable to expect that those options panned out successfully. Look at the browsers people use to log into their accounts. Look at when the user started playing — was it after the Mac client was released?
And perhaps most importantly, err on the side of the customer.
I fully agree, I just checked my subscription and it was started at the release of the Mac client (the official announcement was March 11, 2014). I did try unsuccessfully to play prior to that but if they look at my login history they will easily see that it was not for long as it was unplayable for me pror to the Mac client
Ok I got a final answer from support on the matter which was:
"Hello,
Thank you for the update. You are correct in your understanding. The compensation was intended for those players who exclusively played through the Mac client, and not through an alternate method. Thank you for your understanding.
So Cryptic, based on Retributions statement above, has decided that any user that logged on by any alternative method is not qualified for a refund.
I am going to ask for a Manager or Supervisor to contact me though I do not expect much of a difference from them either. Cryptic is using this ideology to save themselves money.
But it is what it is.... Maybe this should make it to main stream media... maybe if they have to answer questions there they would have a different stance... ultimately they refunded likely 100 users that did not take the proactive step of trying to continue to play when the Mac client was broken but then say in their announcement "For those looking ton continue to play our game after we shut down the Mac client, we would recommend using any of the popular programs to simulate a windows environment on your Mac, including the free software Wine." Basically we are not going to help you play but we sure would not mind your monetary contributions if you figure it out on your own
Highly disgusted by this I am going to talk this over with my brother see if there is anything else that can be done
Yeah, I got this when inquiring about the refund too:
Hello,
Thank you for the update. Our development team have provided us a list of Mac users only included accounts that had exclusively used a Mac to play STO. Logins from a PC or PC emulator to an account would disqualify it from reimbursement/refund. Thank you for your understanding and feel free to let us know if we can do anything else for you.
I only play on a Mac and never used alternate ways to login and I still didn't get the refund. So they're not giving to people who didn't use Wine or anything too. I even told them that they gave me the Mac Pack when the system was down but are not honouring this? I'm doing a follow up because I definitely should be on that list.
At this point, I can see the anger (justified anger btw) boiling over. This could have been easily solved by a multi-tier approach to this. Something like:
1. Have you played on the Mac client before 2/5/2016? If so, here are 10 Master Keys and we hope you keep playing.
2. Did you ever spend real world money for in-game Zen and used the Mac client more often than not? If so, you can either get double the Zen or the full money back. I have a feeling people would have taken double Zen, especially with solutions like using CrossOver or PlayOnMac.
3. Did you have a subscription? If so, you can either get your money back or 25,000 Zen. Your choice.
I don't care how ridiculously OP people think this kind of solution is. At this point, I fear it's about the only solution that is going to make people happy. Plus, offering double Zen back doesn't cost the company a dime if people accept it (and I think they would have done it).
One of the many Tellarite Goddesses of Beauty!
If there are posts here that do not appeal to you, or opinions you disagree with, the best way to deal with that is to resist the urge to add comments. Instead, engage with the content you like! Don't feed the trolls!
I did as well; I also had tickets in when the Mac client went down
I actually sent them multiple full OS X crash reports. The copy/paste was a headache, but it was hopes that things could have been fixed.
One of the many Tellarite Goddesses of Beauty!
If there are posts here that do not appeal to you, or opinions you disagree with, the best way to deal with that is to resist the urge to add comments. Instead, engage with the content you like! Don't feed the trolls!
I'm still going back and forth on my ticket. I've been told that no exception will be made for me. I informed them that I don't want an exception made for me; I want the whole policy reviewed, for all Mac users, because it's entirely unreasonable.
So where would you like them to draw the line?
They had to draw a line somewhere....
Look at each account and see where it stands maybe.... They have the ability to determine how many times we logged on and through which client and for how long. The also collect information on the operating system used for every user so if they identify a Mac user maybe look at the actual game time on a PC or PC emulator and then make a decision, as I previously said 20 minutes is not nearly enough time to get 5 toons to level 60
Like Eighrichte stated above some Mac users were using Wine or some other kind of emulator while the Mac client was not working, I luckily was on vacation during that time and it did not effect me.
This likely was in the plans for a while, maybe they intentionally broke the Mac client to get some users to use emulators so they could simply say you were not a strict Mac user so you don't qualify as a result they get to keep the money.
That's too time intensive. Pick some standard that they can use to draw line in the sand so that they can make a clear definition for everyone to understand and follow.
That's too time intensive. Pick some standard that they can use to draw line in the sand so that they can make a clear definition for everyone to understand and follow.
OK, simplest standard. Imperfect, but better than what they've done: use the list they used for the Mac Pack distribution after the New Dawn launch.
That's too time intensive. Pick some standard that they can use to draw line in the sand so that they can make a clear definition for everyone to understand and follow.
OK, simplest standard. Imperfect, but better than what they've done: use the list they used for the Mac Pack distribution after the New Dawn launch.
At least it would be easy to follow and understandable. Good choice.
But the point I was making is that there had to be a line drawn somewhere. And where they choose to draw, while not perfect, was at least easy to communicate. But I do believe that your choice was better.
Hopefully they will see this and rethink their position.
OK, simplest standard. Imperfect, but better than what they've done: use the list they used for the Mac Pack distribution after the New Dawn launch.
I am sure most Mac users would be happy with this as a solution. I also don't think ALL Mac users have been notified they should also put this as a splash screen on the Launcher so everyone can see it not just users of the Forum
So i come home check my email and the Robot at PWE CS has sent me the generic response
Response By Email (Retribution) (02/17/2016 10:24 AM)
Hello,
Thank you for the update. Our development team have provided us a list of Mac users only included accounts that had exclusively used a Mac to play STO. Logins from a PC or PC emulator to an account would disqualify it from reimbursement/refund. Thank you for your understanding and feel free to let us know if we can do anything else for you.
So that New Season that went live in October last year that broke the MAC Client for 3 or so weeks preventing us from logging into the game I guess no allowance, RESPONSIBILITY OR LIABILITY is being taken by Cryptic/PWE over this ? it's simply you used another means to access the game therefore despite it being a fault with OUR GAME CODERS and a major inconvenience at the time bad luck loyal customer. But now that we are discontinuing the MAC Client please feel free to use the very Softwares that have disqualified you from having reimbursement. Please continue to play and pay for our game.
Absolutely disgraceful and i hope PC users are taking notice of this treatment of their fellow players as you guys are players to and it could easily happen to you. Cryptic/PWE obviously do not value their customers one bit.
So what Cryptic/PWE are saying is we should have missed out on the Mirror Event, not logged in and played the new content and shown our support for the game. We should have waited for however long at the time it was for them to fix a problem THEY CREATED.
I am going to speak to trading standards regarding this and see if i have a case for legal action as they have not fulfilled their statement from the original announcement abut the MAC closure.
ITS A TOTAL COPE OUT and the only thing Cryptic/PWE can do for me now is honour the Closure statement.
This has gone for me beyond a refund its about principles. You make a statement about the MAC closure and promises within it and then when the time comes to honour it you alter the deal.
You disqualify those that found a way into the broken game during October, those very people that help support the game and stab them in the back rather than praise and reward their loyalty for sharing ways to get others back online to take part in the Mirror Incursion and Season 11 Launch when the official client was broken.
Am i angry you bet you're shiny metal TRIBBLE i'm angry
Those players that were disqualified due to using Wine Wrapper during the MAC outage when season 11 launched should not be disqualified.
Why should they ? if the MAC Client HAD NOT BEEN BROKEN i know i wouldn't have used any other means to access the game other than Cryptic's/PWE launcher. i mean why would i use an alternative when the normal route would be working.
Therefore Cryptic need to look at during the time of the outage and see what device Customers were using before the outage, if it shows a MAC and at some point after the outage MAC again then reimbursement should be given.
We should not be disqualified because of the Developers failure to provide a working service
This is the biggest point in the whole disqualification debate they are missing. They broke the client. we managed to work around the break, then went back to the client once fixed. It was Cryptic/PWE fault that another access point was used due to them breaking the launcher.
Well I just received my ticket response and was told that all the disbursements have been made to those that PWE/Cryptic has verified as a Mac user. I find that strange considering I too was one of the Mac users who received the Season 11 promotional stuff as an identified Mac user who couldn't access things during the Season 11 crash. It appears on its face that because I was critical of this situation, I have lost my "refund". In other words, Perfect World Entertainment and Cryptic are turtling and telling people to hit the bricks.
I'm still going back and forth on my ticket. I've been told that no exception will be made for me. I informed them that I don't want an exception made for me; I want the whole policy reviewed, for all Mac users, because it's entirely unreasonable.
I hope they laughed at you.
And this kind of messaging does nothing but flame, it does not help the situation at all.
Jody I respect you, but the person I was responding to does not IMO deserve either help or respect.
I can understand having a clash of personalities and giving into the urge to poke. I'm certainly not saying I haven't done it either so please don't think I'm holding myself up as perfect (not even close). But the truth is that there seems to be a larger than expected portion of the community that feels they have been treated less than ideally by Perfect World and Cryptic, and because of their love of Trek they feel absolutely sandbagged. It's 2016 and we have clearly seen gamers get attached to their games. And let's be blunt, this isn't anything new since the advent of online gaming. But this has been nothing short of a colossal TRIBBLE up by Perfect World and Cryptic in how they handled this. Close the client (which is their right), tell players they are going to get some form of refund, tell players to use a third party emulator, burn those players who have used a third party emulator when their Mac client failed and then when their gaming base complains ignore it. Heck I've received response messages that are literally copied and pasted. But let's call a spade a spade here and you have to acknowledge that the response by Cryptic and Perfect World has been tone deaf at best and nakedly stupid at its worst. The other issues are issues of personality. But in terms of customer service, this has been an epic failure on the part of the game developers and studio. You can't deny that.
Lastly, I greatly appreciate the respect sent this way, which is why I reply in turn with respect and civility - if I'm asking others not to be flaming troll-holes then the least I can do is not be one myself. And I'd put that out there for anyone, you can express yourself and your feelings strongly but don't undercut your message by being profane or intentionally flaming/trolling. I'd like to think that even though I have advocated for myself strongly, I haven't been profane or engaging in trolling behaviour.
Keep in mind the desktop OS market share is currently around 6% OS X vs. 92% Windows. That means 15 Windows players for each Mac player. Each developer they pay to work on the Mac version instead of the Windows version returns 1 / 15th the value.
Market share isn't terribly representative of desktop share, though. Last I knew, Windows users replaced their machines about 2.5x more frequently than Mac users, which increases the market share considerably, but not the number of users. (Of course, this also means that supporting Macs means supporting older hardware.) And of course traditionally, Mac users tend to be more willing to spend money, which matters quite a bit for the F2P model.
Which is not to say that Mac users aren't a small percentage of the user base. Still, Blizzard was able to build and maintain a true native Mac client for every game until Overwatch, and presumably would not have done so if it wasn't profitable.
Yeah, Mac has been getting worse over the years, not better. It looks like the newer versions of Mac just aren't useful for computer games.
no mac should ever be considered a computer to game with, I have no issue of Macs but just don't like them for gaming they were designed for Graphic design, Multimedia, and buisness not gaming, its great to see people get "all" types of uses out of them just don't ever see them as a rig for gaming.
So I got a response to my counter argument saying that I received the Mac Pack as a Mac user when the outage happened for us but am now not considered a Mac user.
Hello,
Once again we apologize for the inconvenience, but as this account was not verified as a Mac exclusive user, you are not eligible for the refund. We will not be making any exceptions. Thank you for your understanding.
So I got a response to my counter argument saying that I received the Mac Pack as a Mac user when the outage happened for us but am now not considered a Mac user.
Hello,
Once again we apologize for the inconvenience, but as this account was not verified as a Mac exclusive user, you are not eligible for the refund. We will not be making any exceptions. Thank you for your understanding.
I hope my fellow MAC users that any of you still playing this game after Cryptic/PWE's response to the refunds via any Emulators be it Wine, Parallels or PlayOnMAC make the choice not to support this game financially anymore (Windows players can go about there business as usual), but do continue enjoying playing via whichever route you've chosen to access the game for however long the servers stay alive.
Reasons
1. Emulators are not supported software so Cryptic/PWE won't/can't offer any Tech Support.
2. Cryptic/PWE have refused to accept any responsibility for the Client they broke in October which removed access via that portal to THEIR SERVICE/GAME and disqualified those that found a workaround a refund.
3. Cryptic/PWE are encouraging the use of the very emulators that disqualified you from a refund to continue playing. ties to point 1.
4. Buying Zen for C-Store items going forward whilst using emulators is via unsupported software. Do you want to take a risk what if that software breaks and you can no longer access you're purchases and claim a refund or support because you used unsupported software.
5. Cryptic/PWE made a promise in the Closure Announcement of a Refund to MAC users which they now after looking at accounts have disqualified a unknown percentage of players. Only Criteria that so far we know of that disqualified users was logging in via an Emulator or a Windows PC. NO LEWAY HAS BEEN GIVEN TO SERVICE ISSUES CREATED BY CRYPTIC/PWE which dictated users wishing to login use Emulators to access the game.
I know this is not a decision made by the Development Team that work hard on the game or the Moderators of these forums or the poor guys in Customer Support that are taking the flak and likely abuse from those of us that are disgruntled and very angry about this situation, So to them i'm sorry you have to be in the firing line of a poor Managerial decision they say TRIBBLE always falls down and sadly you guys are always the ones it falls on.
I would like Trendy or someone in CS who can see reason to lobby and fight for us regarding the Client issue back in October as disqualification because an emulator was used during that period is extremely unfair and harsh. I know when i was working in Customer Services and came across similarly harsh decisions i would take each case to my Manager and fight for the Customer Rights.
Thank You and good gaming
(I hope this post doesn't constitute a ban. I'm not telling anyone not to spend money i'm asking people to choose whether they want to spend money on a product that is no longer supported on the OS they use and for the reasons explained)
And please Windows users don't say use bootcamp. For those that do not own a licensed copy of Windows to ask then to pay $119 or £80 plus to purchase a copy just to be able to access the purchases they made in game is not an acceptable solution. Asking people to pay to play for services already purchased is immorale
So I got a response to my counter argument saying that I received the Mac Pack as a Mac user when the outage happened for us but am now not considered a Mac user.
Hello,
Once again we apologize for the inconvenience, but as this account was not verified as a Mac exclusive user, you are not eligible for the refund. We will not be making any exceptions. Thank you for your understanding.
I'm not an exception, this doesn't make sense. I've never used Bootcamp, or Wine, or anything like that...
It sounds like their logs show that you've logged in to STO before using the Windows client.
Have you used a Windows PC as a backup, like another family member's PC? Did you share your account with a friend or family member?
If no and no, then they are not treating you properly.
I just received the exact same response myself. And like this player, I play this game using the Mac client, and don't use any emulators, nor have I used one before. So like I said earlier, truly unfortunate. But my life isn't over and once the support on the Mac client ends, so does my STO gaming time. Because even if I were to install an emulator or partition, based on this response I can't invest anymore because I've done more than enough. Good luck out there Captains. It's been nice flying with you.
If both of you NEVER used a Windows client, as opposed to not using one now, then that is a fault in their ID system.
Cryptic has accuracy problems with their target selection as we've seen in the "free T6 ship" mailings going to current players.
People in that situation who want a refund should put in a ticket saying so, and should post in one of the bug subforums.
If you want a refund and have never used the Windows client then you are entitled to one.
If both of you NEVER used a Windows client, as opposed to not using one now, then that is a fault in their ID system.
Cryptic has accuracy problems with their target selection as we've seen in the "free T6 ship" mailings going to current players.
People in that situation who want a refund should put in a ticket saying so, and should post in one of the bug subforums.
If you want a refund and have never used the Windows client then you are entitled to one.
Whether we are entitled to one or not, my friend that ship has sailed and is not returning to port. Clearly this has become such a massive challenge for them on all sides that they cannot overcome it so it's turtle time. I understand form letters but in this case wow. There is not going to be a positive resolution to this. I had a challenge with the Season 11 launch and got the promo stuff missed after they made it available to Mac client users so it's not as if the dev team doesn't know that I'm a Mac user. But like I said, my life isn't over because of this. There was a time in my life pre-STO and soon there will be a post-STO life. Any money and time I invested is gone but no dramas. But based on such an insulting response, once the Mac client is done I will be too. I'm just sticking around and enjoying what time I do have left.
Comments
Given the magnitude of the error they've made, having to can an entire platform, I think it's reasonable to expect them to err on the side of generosity rather than trying to exclude anyone they can possibly exclude.
So where would you like them to draw the line?
They had to draw a line somewhere....
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Look at each account and see where it stands maybe.... They have the ability to determine how many times we logged on and through which client and for how long. The also collect information on the operating system used for every user so if they identify a Mac user maybe look at the actual game time on a PC or PC emulator and then make a decision, as I previously said 20 minutes is not nearly enough time to get 5 toons to level 60
Like Eighrichte stated above some Mac users were using Wine or some other kind of emulator while the Mac client was not working, I luckily was on vacation during that time and it did not effect me.
This likely was in the plans for a while, maybe they intentionally broke the Mac client to get some users to use emulators so they could simply say you were not a strict Mac user so you don't qualify as a result they get to keep the money.
And perhaps most importantly, err on the side of the customer.
I fully agree, I just checked my subscription and it was started at the release of the Mac client (the official announcement was March 11, 2014). I did try unsuccessfully to play prior to that but if they look at my login history they will easily see that it was not for long as it was unplayable for me pror to the Mac client
"Hello,
Thank you for the update. You are correct in your understanding. The compensation was intended for those players who exclusively played through the Mac client, and not through an alternate method. Thank you for your understanding.
Regards,
Retribution
Specialist Game Master
Perfect World Entertainment
http://support.arcgames.com/"
So Cryptic, based on Retributions statement above, has decided that any user that logged on by any alternative method is not qualified for a refund.
I am going to ask for a Manager or Supervisor to contact me though I do not expect much of a difference from them either. Cryptic is using this ideology to save themselves money.
But it is what it is.... Maybe this should make it to main stream media... maybe if they have to answer questions there they would have a different stance... ultimately they refunded likely 100 users that did not take the proactive step of trying to continue to play when the Mac client was broken but then say in their announcement "For those looking ton continue to play our game after we shut down the Mac client, we would recommend using any of the popular programs to simulate a windows environment on your Mac, including the free software Wine." Basically we are not going to help you play but we sure would not mind your monetary contributions if you figure it out on your own
Highly disgusted by this I am going to talk this over with my brother see if there is anything else that can be done
I only play on a Mac and never used alternate ways to login and I still didn't get the refund. So they're not giving to people who didn't use Wine or anything too. I even told them that they gave me the Mac Pack when the system was down but are not honouring this? I'm doing a follow up because I definitely should be on that list.
1. Have you played on the Mac client before 2/5/2016? If so, here are 10 Master Keys and we hope you keep playing.
2. Did you ever spend real world money for in-game Zen and used the Mac client more often than not? If so, you can either get double the Zen or the full money back. I have a feeling people would have taken double Zen, especially with solutions like using CrossOver or PlayOnMac.
3. Did you have a subscription? If so, you can either get your money back or 25,000 Zen. Your choice.
I don't care how ridiculously OP people think this kind of solution is. At this point, I fear it's about the only solution that is going to make people happy. Plus, offering double Zen back doesn't cost the company a dime if people accept it (and I think they would have done it).
If there are posts here that do not appeal to you, or opinions you disagree with, the best way to deal with that is to resist the urge to add comments. Instead, engage with the content you like! Don't feed the trolls!
Yup, ditto.
I actually sent them multiple full OS X crash reports. The copy/paste was a headache, but it was hopes that things could have been fixed.
If there are posts here that do not appeal to you, or opinions you disagree with, the best way to deal with that is to resist the urge to add comments. Instead, engage with the content you like! Don't feed the trolls!
That's too time intensive. Pick some standard that they can use to draw line in the sand so that they can make a clear definition for everyone to understand and follow.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
OK, simplest standard. Imperfect, but better than what they've done: use the list they used for the Mac Pack distribution after the New Dawn launch.
At least it would be easy to follow and understandable. Good choice.
But the point I was making is that there had to be a line drawn somewhere. And where they choose to draw, while not perfect, was at least easy to communicate. But I do believe that your choice was better.
Hopefully they will see this and rethink their position.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
I am sure most Mac users would be happy with this as a solution. I also don't think ALL Mac users have been notified they should also put this as a splash screen on the Launcher so everyone can see it not just users of the Forum
Response By Email (Retribution) (02/17/2016 10:24 AM)
Hello,
Thank you for the update. Our development team have provided us a list of Mac users only included accounts that had exclusively used a Mac to play STO. Logins from a PC or PC emulator to an account would disqualify it from reimbursement/refund. Thank you for your understanding and feel free to let us know if we can do anything else for you.
Regards,
Retribution
Specialist Game Master
Perfect World Entertainment
http://support.arcgames.com/
So that New Season that went live in October last year that broke the MAC Client for 3 or so weeks preventing us from logging into the game I guess no allowance, RESPONSIBILITY OR LIABILITY is being taken by Cryptic/PWE over this ? it's simply you used another means to access the game therefore despite it being a fault with OUR GAME CODERS and a major inconvenience at the time bad luck loyal customer. But now that we are discontinuing the MAC Client please feel free to use the very Softwares that have disqualified you from having reimbursement. Please continue to play and pay for our game.
Absolutely disgraceful and i hope PC users are taking notice of this treatment of their fellow players as you guys are players to and it could easily happen to you. Cryptic/PWE obviously do not value their customers one bit.
So what Cryptic/PWE are saying is we should have missed out on the Mirror Event, not logged in and played the new content and shown our support for the game. We should have waited for however long at the time it was for them to fix a problem THEY CREATED.
I am going to speak to trading standards regarding this and see if i have a case for legal action as they have not fulfilled their statement from the original announcement abut the MAC closure.
ITS A TOTAL COPE OUT and the only thing Cryptic/PWE can do for me now is honour the Closure statement.
This has gone for me beyond a refund its about principles. You make a statement about the MAC closure and promises within it and then when the time comes to honour it you alter the deal.
You disqualify those that found a way into the broken game during October, those very people that help support the game and stab them in the back rather than praise and reward their loyalty for sharing ways to get others back online to take part in the Mirror Incursion and Season 11 Launch when the official client was broken.
Am i angry you bet you're shiny metal TRIBBLE i'm angry
Those players that were disqualified due to using Wine Wrapper during the MAC outage when season 11 launched should not be disqualified.
Why should they ? if the MAC Client HAD NOT BEEN BROKEN i know i wouldn't have used any other means to access the game other than Cryptic's/PWE launcher. i mean why would i use an alternative when the normal route would be working.
Therefore Cryptic need to look at during the time of the outage and see what device Customers were using before the outage, if it shows a MAC and at some point after the outage MAC again then reimbursement should be given.
We should not be disqualified because of the Developers failure to provide a working service
This is the biggest point in the whole disqualification debate they are missing. They broke the client. we managed to work around the break, then went back to the client once fixed. It was Cryptic/PWE fault that another access point was used due to them breaking the launcher.
Truly unfortunate.
And this kind of messaging does nothing but flame, it does not help the situation at all.
I can understand having a clash of personalities and giving into the urge to poke. I'm certainly not saying I haven't done it either so please don't think I'm holding myself up as perfect (not even close). But the truth is that there seems to be a larger than expected portion of the community that feels they have been treated less than ideally by Perfect World and Cryptic, and because of their love of Trek they feel absolutely sandbagged. It's 2016 and we have clearly seen gamers get attached to their games. And let's be blunt, this isn't anything new since the advent of online gaming. But this has been nothing short of a colossal TRIBBLE up by Perfect World and Cryptic in how they handled this. Close the client (which is their right), tell players they are going to get some form of refund, tell players to use a third party emulator, burn those players who have used a third party emulator when their Mac client failed and then when their gaming base complains ignore it. Heck I've received response messages that are literally copied and pasted. But let's call a spade a spade here and you have to acknowledge that the response by Cryptic and Perfect World has been tone deaf at best and nakedly stupid at its worst. The other issues are issues of personality. But in terms of customer service, this has been an epic failure on the part of the game developers and studio. You can't deny that.
Lastly, I greatly appreciate the respect sent this way, which is why I reply in turn with respect and civility - if I'm asking others not to be flaming troll-holes then the least I can do is not be one myself. And I'd put that out there for anyone, you can express yourself and your feelings strongly but don't undercut your message by being profane or intentionally flaming/trolling. I'd like to think that even though I have advocated for myself strongly, I haven't been profane or engaging in trolling behaviour.
no mac should ever be considered a computer to game with, I have no issue of Macs but just don't like them for gaming they were designed for Graphic design, Multimedia, and buisness not gaming, its great to see people get "all" types of uses out of them just don't ever see them as a rig for gaming.
I'm not an exception, this doesn't make sense. I've never used Bootcamp, or Wine, or anything like that...
It sounds like their logs show that you've logged in to STO before using the Windows client.
Have you used a Windows PC as a backup, like another family member's PC? Did you share your account with a friend or family member?
If no and no, then they are not treating you properly.
Reasons
1. Emulators are not supported software so Cryptic/PWE won't/can't offer any Tech Support.
2. Cryptic/PWE have refused to accept any responsibility for the Client they broke in October which removed access via that portal to THEIR SERVICE/GAME and disqualified those that found a workaround a refund.
3. Cryptic/PWE are encouraging the use of the very emulators that disqualified you from a refund to continue playing. ties to point 1.
4. Buying Zen for C-Store items going forward whilst using emulators is via unsupported software. Do you want to take a risk what if that software breaks and you can no longer access you're purchases and claim a refund or support because you used unsupported software.
5. Cryptic/PWE made a promise in the Closure Announcement of a Refund to MAC users which they now after looking at accounts have disqualified a unknown percentage of players. Only Criteria that so far we know of that disqualified users was logging in via an Emulator or a Windows PC. NO LEWAY HAS BEEN GIVEN TO SERVICE ISSUES CREATED BY CRYPTIC/PWE which dictated users wishing to login use Emulators to access the game.
I know this is not a decision made by the Development Team that work hard on the game or the Moderators of these forums or the poor guys in Customer Support that are taking the flak and likely abuse from those of us that are disgruntled and very angry about this situation, So to them i'm sorry you have to be in the firing line of a poor Managerial decision they say TRIBBLE always falls down and sadly you guys are always the ones it falls on.
I would like Trendy or someone in CS who can see reason to lobby and fight for us regarding the Client issue back in October as disqualification because an emulator was used during that period is extremely unfair and harsh. I know when i was working in Customer Services and came across similarly harsh decisions i would take each case to my Manager and fight for the Customer Rights.
Thank You and good gaming
(I hope this post doesn't constitute a ban. I'm not telling anyone not to spend money i'm asking people to choose whether they want to spend money on a product that is no longer supported on the OS they use and for the reasons explained)
And please Windows users don't say use bootcamp. For those that do not own a licensed copy of Windows to ask then to pay $119 or £80 plus to purchase a copy just to be able to access the purchases they made in game is not an acceptable solution. Asking people to pay to play for services already purchased is immorale
I just received the exact same response myself. And like this player, I play this game using the Mac client, and don't use any emulators, nor have I used one before. So like I said earlier, truly unfortunate. But my life isn't over and once the support on the Mac client ends, so does my STO gaming time. Because even if I were to install an emulator or partition, based on this response I can't invest anymore because I've done more than enough. Good luck out there Captains. It's been nice flying with you.
Cryptic has accuracy problems with their target selection as we've seen in the "free T6 ship" mailings going to current players.
People in that situation who want a refund should put in a ticket saying so, and should post in one of the bug subforums.
If you want a refund and have never used the Windows client then you are entitled to one.
Whether we are entitled to one or not, my friend that ship has sailed and is not returning to port. Clearly this has become such a massive challenge for them on all sides that they cannot overcome it so it's turtle time. I understand form letters but in this case wow. There is not going to be a positive resolution to this. I had a challenge with the Season 11 launch and got the promo stuff missed after they made it available to Mac client users so it's not as if the dev team doesn't know that I'm a Mac user. But like I said, my life isn't over because of this. There was a time in my life pre-STO and soon there will be a post-STO life. Any money and time I invested is gone but no dramas. But based on such an insulting response, once the Mac client is done I will be too. I'm just sticking around and enjoying what time I do have left.