I actually bought a PC for the first time in 30 years of owning computers so I could keep playing, and even with that, I'm questioning continuing. I've spent a good $300/year on this game, twice what I used to spend on another MMO, and I never felt bad about it because I wanted to support the team. Had they honored the $100 reimbursement the announcement seemed to state pretty clearly I had coming, they could expect me to continue spending at a similar rate. It would have taken some of the sting out of buying a computer, and told me they value me as a customer even though they're dropping my preferred platform. Taking the exact opposite tack to try to alienate as many users as possible is just mind-boggling.
Although you have a few good points, I want to say where I disagree.
In these days people tend to be more and more selfish. Loyalty and solidarity are gone down the drain. I know this and I can't change this. To bring this picture to the gaming industry it's the same in a lot of communities. Something bad happens to somebody and the result is that others say "I don't care because it didn't happen to me" or "It happened to me, too, but we can't change anything" or the more aggressive "stop whining, nobody will care, shut up, my pc is better than yours". This is whats happening all the time.
let me give you a very tough metaphor (which is just a metaphor for above statement and doesn't stand for the situation with PWE):
When you are standing in a crowd and the person right next to you gets hit by a stone at the head. Would you help him? Or would you say "stop whining, it won't take us anywhere"? Would you blame the one throwing the stone? Or won't you say a word because that guy is stronger than you?
In the end we live in countries with lots of laws regarding customers rights. And YES, we are customers, because we pay for something they are offering us. And the rights for customers are bigger than the gaming industry wants us to know. We are gamers, but due to the fact that we pay money for a service, we are customers, too. No matter what. Stop denying that. Because every time people here in the forums and elsewhere are denying it, or saying that we won't have a chance anyway - every time you say this you are supporting these companies (it still is a company) to do with their customers what they want and in the end steal our money.
Many of you won't stand up against companies. But lets NOW come to a point which is better today than yesterday: the power of masses. If many of us do something against whats happening now (and not only on twitter) - they HAVE to change something in the way they are treating us.
And - I still believe - maybe there is a solution or better way to solve all of this with PWE. I don't know yet and still waiting for reply. We will see. But I definitely won't sit here with my money down the drain. At the moment I feel like somebody hit me with a stone. And the guy right next to me, too. And the conclusion for me is that I want to see a clear reaction to that. One that fits all parties.
I'm surprised by now we haven't had a follow up statement such as something on the lines of this
Mock Statement not officially from Cryptic or PWE
Hello Captains,
As we mentioned earlier in the month we decided with regret to close the Mac Client and no longer offer support for it, this is due to performance issues which we were not satisfied with and felt we couldn't deliver the service necessary to support our customers using this client and although we considered looking into another client it would mean considerable downtime whilst we built another client and found a new partner to help maintain it, we didn't feel this was financially viable.
As rebate for the closure of the game we offered MAC users
*a Life Time Membership refund and
*Subscription refund from October up until the date of our 1st closure announcement which have been processed.
*We also offered a Zen refund to MAC users.
We apologise for not stating the criteria required to meet qualifying for a refund as we didn't want anyone to be able to manipulate the necessary criteria and be refunded when not really eligible. What we looked at in issuing these refunds was DO our MAC players have or have ever show evidence that they can access the game with either a emulator or Windows ? if the answer was YES we decided across the board regardless of reason to disqualify those players from a refund due to showing us that they could access and continue to play our game via other routes and therefore in being able to do were not eligible for a refund as they have access to any purchases made.
We acknowledge that this access may have been due to our own client's quality of service, however as access to the game was made via other routes we have disqualified those users as the game was accessed via another client.
We understand that emulators are 3rd party software and that we cannot offer support for and that certain emulators may not run the game well on certain settings, however after testing a few of the free emulators out there on the market we felt they performed to a standard that allowed continued gameplay, emulators such as Wine.
We also know MAC's have the ability to install and dual boot the Windows OS (Purchase of a license may be required)
We are sorry that our initial statement may have mislead and given Mac users the wrong impression about refunds but we are only refunding those users that have shown us that they are and have solely only ever used our MAC Client to access the game.
You may feel this to be unfair but its a decision we have decided to go with. Use of an emulator or Windows still allows access to the game and any products purchased via the C-Store, so by using either of these options you still have full access to you're account and therefore not denied access to the game or purchases.
Thank you for your understanding please contact support if you have any further questions.
p.s. Our Team is standing by with shields raised and Corbomite coating to our hulls to reject and deflector you're questions and pleads of unfair disqualification.
Some sort of official statement needs to be made to the customer base to try and help people understand the reasons why refunds have been rejected and to try to repair the fracture and divide that is occurring between the Consumer and Company.
I know this mock up statement would still cause some unhappiness but i think PWE have a lot of Relationship and Trust rebuilding to do here.
Note still doesn't cover those that have posted and said they haven't used an emulator or windows so would like to know why they were declined.
I've given up hope of anybody seeing a refund of Zen, should it be pursued via legal channels?. Although there is some leads to follow on this, it's whether you could convince a lawyer it was worth their time to pursue.
I will answer your metaphor (it's actually much closer to a hypothetical scenario than a metaphor but I'm not going to debate those nuances with you) with this: I'm punching you in the face repeatedly and I'm making you give me your lunch money to help pay for my bandaids when my knuckles bleed. But then I grab your hand and start smacking you in the face with it, telling you to stop punching yourself. And I'm still taking your lunch money. What do you do? Do you fight back or do you just keep taking it and let me take your lunch money (or milkshake if you want that comparison) from you? By the sounds of it, you want to keep letting me punch you in the face and take your lunch money (or milkshake). And that's EXACTLY what happened here in this situation, you are being punched in the face and your lunch money (or milkshake) is being taken from you and you think that if you ask nicely enough or often enough that it's going to stop. By engaging and not realizing that the example laid out by numerous other players points out to them you're a sucker who wants to be taken advantage of. Oh and asking me whether I would help an injured person is beyond a straw man counter argument, takes away from the real issue here, and is close to one of the dumbest counter arguments I've heard ever since the "I know you are but what am I?" incident of 1892. Seriously man, do you enjoy people taking you and your support for granted?
I actually bought a PC for the first time in 30 years of owning computers so I could keep playing, and even with that, I'm questioning continuing. I've spent a good $300/year on this game, twice what I used to spend on another MMO, and I never felt bad about it because I wanted to support the team. Had they honored the $100 reimbursement the announcement seemed to state pretty clearly I had coming, they could expect me to continue spending at a similar rate. It would have taken some of the sting out of buying a computer, and told me they value me as a customer even though they're dropping my preferred platform. Taking the exact opposite tack to try to alienate as many users as possible is just mind-boggling.
And as for eighrichte, you just demonstrated my example perfectly. It's very rare that I would even say this online, but FFS man show some self-respect. You bought a piece of equipment you clearly don't want or really need to play a game made by a studio that encouraged you to spend your shekels and then takes them all away from you and when you complain plugs their ears and pretends you don't exist. Seriously man, at what point do you look at yourself and say enough is enough?
Dude, nothing is going to happen. No make believe letter that you penned will happen. Just stop living in a fantasy world because the truth is that if something was going to happen, it would have happened by now.
Just enjoy the client until it's pulled and then head off to greener pastures. If you want to keep playing via emulator or whatnot well that's good for you.
Dude, nothing is going to happen. No make believe letter that you penned will happen. Just stop living in a fantasy world because the truth is that if something was going to happen, it would have happened by now.
Just enjoy the client until it's pulled and then head off to greener pastures. If you want to keep playing via emulator or whatnot well that's good for you.
I'm just saying customer base is pissed it wouldn't hurt to put out a statement to try and deflame the situation. Its something we know Cryptic and PWE aren't good at or do which is good customer relations
Also I have given up. Little fish doesn't have the teeth or deep pockets to fight the big fish.
Dude, nothing is going to happen. No make believe letter that you penned will happen. Just stop living in a fantasy world because the truth is that if something was going to happen, it would have happened by now.
Just enjoy the client until it's pulled and then head off to greener pastures. If you want to keep playing via emulator or whatnot well that's good for you.
I'm just saying customer base is pissed it wouldn't hurt to put out a statement to try and deflame the situation.
Also I have given up. Little fish doesn't have the teeth or deep pockets to fight the big fish.
Man it is PAINFULLY obvious they don't care about their customer base and whether a certain segment of it is upset because they have the license and believe they have enough Windows users (and Mac players they've sucked into using emulators) to make a go of it. Like I keep saying, enjoy the ride while you can and when it's gone you now have time and resources to devote to other pursuits.
Eh, I'm really not going to feel bad about giving people the benefit of the doubt. I like the game; I like the people in my fleet. My preference would be to keep playing. I wanted to be prepared to do so. I'm afraid jonasum's analogy is both more accurate and more persuasive than yours, because it isn't actually costing us anything (except time, which we're willing to use) to make our case.
To me, walking away without trying everything (within reason) to get a service provider to provide the service you're due is considerably more embarrassing than trying and failing.
Jodyhammerhand- no offense - but with your attitude (it's like that - take it or leave it) you too are responsible that behaviors like the one PWE is showing to their community are successful. Please stop trying to convince me to accept this behavior, I won't. And you're wrong, but this is just my opinion.
People have to show them that it is not acceptable to treat their customers like this. If we all just shut up and accept it or leave it, companies will stay successful with this behavior most of the times, because it's 50/50 and there still will be enough players spending money until they can successfully sell the company or press all money out of it before they do an official bankruptcy but after they took the money out. If you just shut up and don't do anything - you will be next.
I prefer to stand up for my rights and the rights of others. Because this is the best way to a) find a solution that is fair for everybody - even if it is a compromise and b) stay loyal and true to yourself and what you believe in.
Sorry to put so much pathos in it, but this is Star Trek and not a game that shows up for 1 or 2 years and after that it's gone. I still love the game although I had and have so many problems to play . And I still believe that the people at cryptic can be convinced to play fair and may see that they did a mistake. That happens in the business world. A lot of times. They maybe underestimated the situation. It's okay - can happen. But we can only convince them to play fair and correct their course if we stand together.
It might be a fact that there isn't enough loyalty in the community and that everybody is selfish and nobody cares about he Mac users. It's possible and maybe realistic that most just stand next to somebody who gets punched in the face and robbed and would do nothing to stop it because you say it's not possible to do something. Yes, that might be 2016 and most of the people are doing this.
If so, I will definitely go the legal way. On my own, with full power and very selfish, too. It's too much money to just leave and say nothing. Money that I loved to spend here, but if it turns out that they don't want to discuss or even talk to us, then I will go all the way. Legal, community, credit card company and everything else which is possible and fair enough to let them know I am aware of my rights and aware of fair play.
Some might laugh or just give up. But maybe some of you feel the same. To stand up when somebody was treated unfair. And in this case it's not just somebody, a LOT of the guys you're playing with are treated like this at the moment. Time to do something.
That's the reason why I'm writing here. I still have hope that PWE will come back to us with a fair offer. Even if it is a compromise. But it has to be a fair one. Because what happened in the last weeks is far, far, far away from fair.
What I'm having an issue with is that I've never logged into a PWE game using Windows or an emulator. I've only ever used the Mac client. When it stopped working, I stopped logging in. I'm still being denied a refund for a life-time sub purchase Nov 2015. Am I missing something?
What I'm having an issue with is that I've never logged into a PWE game using Windows or an emulator. I've only ever used the Mac client. When it stopped working, I stopped logging in. I'm still being denied a refund for a life-time sub purchase Nov 2015. Am I missing something?
No, you're not the only one. Not only is the policy bad — even logging in using an emulator while the Mac client was broken disqualifies you, even if the emulator wasn't actually up to the task of playing the game; even logging in from someone else's PC while out of town on vacation disqualifies you — but even the people who clearly meet the requirements of the bad policy seem to be largely getting disqualified for no apparent reason.
Another generic response to my refund request. Just checked what i spent between October and December last year alone and i'm embarrassed to say its over £500.
Well thank you Cryptic/PWE you have given me some compensation in all this and thats money in my pocket every month that was going to you, New iPad and PC chair is incoming
Personally i think this whole refund was nothing more than an empty promise, a Hoax, lip service to smooth over the discontinuation of the MAC Client.
In all likelihood they checked the user base before announcement and had a very good idea of who had used an emulator and rather than be upfront at the start and say this will disqualify you because !. They simply say MAC users will get a refund misleading many people to think thats what happening only to then after enquiring to be told not directly in any public statement but by Customer Support no refund you used an emulator.
I was going to let it go but as another poster mentioned if you let them get away with it then they'll continue to treat you and behave in this manner. Which is unacceptable.
I'm also interested to know the period of time they looked at to decide to disqualify people and at what point they detected i used an emulator.
was it the last 6 months, 12 months, 18 months or the life of your account ?
Hell this "zen refund" isn't even a real refund. It is a credit applied to your ARC account balance. Technically speaking it doesn't actually cost them anything to apply this credit as its virtual credits. They already got you're money for the initial purchase of Zen
I've got it running pretty well on my 27" iMac 2011 in Parallels 11 with Windows 7 full-screen with medium graphics settings.
I do find it ironic that Arc can't make their game work well in the Mac "native" environment, but it runs ok in an emulator in said environment. (proving it is NOT a hardware deficiency as all these PC-users keep touting)
I also find it ironic that STO doesn't seem to run faster than 2fps in Windows 10 either... guess they'll have to cancel their support too huh? ;-)
I've got it running pretty well on my 27" iMac 2011 in Parallels 11 with Windows 7 full-screen with medium graphics settings.
I do find it ironic that Arc can't make their game work well in the Mac "native" environment, but it runs ok in an emulator in said environment. (proving it is NOT a hardware deficiency as all these PC-users keep touting)
I also find it ironic that STO doesn't seem to run faster than 2fps in Windows 10 either... guess they'll have to cancel their support too huh? ;-)
<-- Win10 user, no problems at all.
Also, not everyone was saying it's the hardware.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I've got it running pretty well on my 27" iMac 2011 in Parallels 11 with Windows 7 full-screen with medium graphics settings.
I do find it ironic that Arc can't make their game work well in the Mac "native" environment, but it runs ok in an emulator in said environment. (proving it is NOT a hardware deficiency as all these PC-users keep touting)
I also find it ironic that STO doesn't seem to run faster than 2fps in Windows 10 either... guess they'll have to cancel their support too huh? ;-)
Win10 user here, running on a laptop at 30-60 FPS. Looks like you're overly optimistic on your graphics settings to me,
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
yetweallfalldown has just posted this about the unscheduled patch. No criticism towards him and thanks for the update
Hi All,
Jumping in here with some more information as we've looked into the patching issue again. It looks like there was some issues with the patching server this afternoon, which had players download incorrect data. At this time, the issue is resolved for new players connecting to the patch server (those who have not run into the patching issue). Unfortunately, those who have started patching the bad data will need to continue through the process in order to correct the data that was previously downloaded.
If you started the download before 1:40 pm PT, it would be best to restart the download process in order to ensure that you are receiving the correct files.
Apologies for the inconvenience that this has caused. We appreciate the feedback.
Alex
I'd better not try using an emulator or a Windows pc to bypass this as i'll be unverified as a MAC user and lose any refund due to trying to work around something the game developers broke again. oh right thats right i already have been unverified due to doing exactly the same thing when they broke the MAC Client last year.
I'm loaded PlayOnMac to login this evening and hit this patch wall. in order to play i have to download 13gb no way around it via this route.
Now by chance to find a way into the game i've loaded up the official MAC Client which i canned after the closure announcement in order to test PlayOnMac suitability, and because they fixed the issue for anyone NOW logging in i can access the game via this route. But PlayOnMac is screwed until the patch completes 13gb.
However if i did this the other way around i'd be unverified as a MAC user and denied a refund due to someones error at Cryptic/PWE HQ
Can people now understand why MAC users are so furious about being denied a refund due to an error on Cryptic/PWE part
And now support have decided to close my ticket and ignore the issue. Hoping it will all blow over.
I've already seen grumblings of people saying they hope the anniversary event is extended as this patch caused them to not be able to complete the event. If we go by Cryptic's flawed logic regarding the MAC issue, then why should we extend this event as Cryptic gave more than enough days to complete the event and earn bonus tokens. Not Cryptic's fault these people couldn't fit real life commitments around their playtime. But as it costs Cryptic nothing i'll guarantee they'll accommodate these players for Cryptic's error
Can people now understand why MAC users are so furious about being denied a refund due to an error on Cryptic/PWE part
And guess what man, the studio doesn't care because YOU and others are experimenting with an emulator and are looking for ways to keep supporting the game financially. YOU and others are actually validating this behaviour by continuing to try to support this game. I wasn't going to reply to this thread anymore because the reading comprehension by some of the users on this thread borders on embarrassing but after reading this post I had to put one last comment in: HA HA!!!!
You know the "definition" of insanity right? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Well based on what I've read misterferengi, you and some others keep sending sternly or nicely worded emails clearly outlining why you think you're entitled to any form of refund, they keep punting it back telling you to hit the bricks and then you act surprised or even upset that you got the same response as before. How many times now? Four? Five? Six? More? In a baseball parlance, you've struck out MULTIPLE times. At what point do you look at yourself and say, I need to change my approach on this. I'm not saying the Mac users haven't tried to advocate for themselves (I did and got the same canned garbage answer repeatedly), I'm saying we've tried and have failed to change anything. So stop the insanity!
Seriously, grow a spine and a sense of self-respect and stop supporting this. You're upset that they took away the Mac platform and your money but because some of you are such rubes you think that by engaging, downloading and using a Windows emulator to access the game (the very thing that some Mac users have been "punished" for) that you're actually going to effect some type of change. You're not going to effect any change at all. You actually encourage this kind of behaviour because you're trying to find a way to keep playing. I seriously don't know how some of you gamers can think that by continuing to find ways to play the game that you're going to effect change. Remember, the Mac platform was shut down because it cost them too much money to keep it going to a standard they felt they could get away with. Clearly money is the motivating factor here and yet I continually read Mac users here are trying to find a way to keep sinking dollars into the game but are upset that they've been taking advantage of. There is a SERIOUS disconnect there. If you want to find a way to keep supporting the game, that's your prerogative. However, if you do keep supporting the game then quite frankly shut your mouth because you've forfeited all right to complain about your treatment in this process - you're allowing your support to be taken for granted. Once again by continuing to support you actually validate everything you rail against.
I've said before that I probably would have found a way to find an emulator but because of their epic fail response to a situation entirely of their own making, I certainly won't use an emulator to play this game once the Mac client is shut down. I can't. They have taken my support for granted and haven't earned my loyalty with their behaviour. I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect the person I see. If you view yourself as an angry customer, then you have the choice to act like one and stop supporting this business. If you're inclined, let the license owner (in this case CBS) know how this licensee (Cryptic/Perfect World) has treated you (I'm not taking that approach but have to say I'll be hard-pressed to support anything ST-related going forward). Or you have the choice to download your emulator, play your game and keep supporting this business. Those are your choices. But if you do make that second choice keep quiet because you had a chance to "vote with your wallet" and you didn't. You let yourself be taken advantage of and no matter how hard you argue against that, it's simply true. I've enjoyed my time in the STO universe and met some nice people but when that experience is over, it's over. So this is my last post on this subject because the derp here is too strong for me but I leave with a simple quote I've been often reminded of in reading some of the posters on this thread: A fool and his money are soon parted.
Can people now understand why MAC users are so furious about being denied a refund due to an error on Cryptic/PWE part
And guess what man, the studio doesn't care because YOU and others are experimenting with an emulator and are looking for ways to keep supporting the game financially. YOU and others are actually validating this behaviour by continuing to try to support this game. I wasn't going to reply to this thread anymore because the reading comprehension by some of the users on this thread borders on embarrassing but after reading this post I had to put one last comment in: HA HA!!!!
You know the "definition" of insanity right? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Well based on what I've read misterferengi, you and some others keep sending sternly or nicely worded emails clearly outlining why you think you're entitled to any form of refund, they keep punting it back telling you to hit the bricks and then you act surprised or even upset that you got the same response as before. How many times now? Four? Five? Six? More? In a baseball parlance, you've struck out MULTIPLE times. At what point do you look at yourself and say, I need to change my approach on this. I'm not saying the Mac users haven't tried to advocate for themselves (I did and got the same canned garbage answer repeatedly), I'm saying we've tried and have failed to change anything. So stop the insanity!
Seriously, grow a spine and a sense of self-respect and stop supporting this. You're upset that they took away the Mac platform and your money but because some of you are such rubes you think that by engaging, downloading and using a Windows emulator to access the game (the very thing that some Mac users have been "punished" for) that you're actually going to effect some type of change. You're not going to effect any change at all. You actually encourage this kind of behaviour because you're trying to find a way to keep playing. I seriously don't know how some of you gamers can think that by continuing to find ways to play the game that you're going to effect change. Remember, the Mac platform was shut down because it cost them too much money to keep it going to a standard they felt they could get away with. Clearly money is the motivating factor here and yet I continually read Mac users here are trying to find a way to keep sinking dollars into the game but are upset that they've been taking advantage of. There is a SERIOUS disconnect there. If you want to find a way to keep supporting the game, that's your prerogative. However, if you do keep supporting the game then quite frankly shut your mouth because you've forfeited all right to complain about your treatment in this process - you're allowing your support to be taken for granted. Once again by continuing to support you actually validate everything you rail against.
I've said before that I probably would have found a way to find an emulator but because of their epic fail response to a situation entirely of their own making, I certainly won't use an emulator to play this game once the Mac client is shut down. I can't. They have taken my support for granted and haven't earned my loyalty with their behaviour. I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect the person I see. If you view yourself as an angry customer, then you have the choice to act like one and stop supporting this business. If you're inclined, let the license owner (in this case CBS) know how this licensee (Cryptic/Perfect World) has treated you (I'm not taking that approach but have to say I'll be hard-pressed to support anything ST-related going forward). Or you have the choice to download your emulator, play your game and keep supporting this business. Those are your choices. But if you do make that second choice keep quiet because you had a chance to "vote with your wallet" and you didn't. You let yourself be taken advantage of and no matter how hard you argue against that, it's simply true. I've enjoyed my time in the STO universe and met some nice people but when that experience is over, it's over. So this is my last post on this subject because the derp here is too strong for me but I leave with a simple quote I've been often reminded of in reading some of the posters on this thread: A fool and his money are soon parted.
Good for you can i have your stuff ?
For the record i am never sinking another penny into this game or other PWE/Cryptic property. If it weren't that this is a source of entertainment, (thats when i can get into the game the patch f*@k up from last night still has me locked out of my preferred launcher been patching a new 4gb patch to override the corrupted files they sent down last night) that i enjoy and a lack of competition in terms of Star Trek Gaming i would play something else, i might just have a look around anyway only so many times you can run ISA right ?
However although i respect your option and you have valid points, its hard to let this go as this is a situation of Cryptic'PWE own making however trying to deal with Cryptic/PWE s getting us nowhere so maybe it is time to look at other options if they are viable. You can only deal with someone if they are A. Willing to listen and B. Willing to talk which they are not.
They broke the client, they could not give any estimated timeframe on it being repaired. They couldn't provide access to the service. Did they expect us to sit around and wait for them to fix it ? 2/3 weeks it took.
Its quite evident that no refunds were never intended and the statement was simply put in there as lip service to pacify the potential backlash of angry MAC users losing support for there source of entertainment. They then go on to cause the very backlash they wanted to avoid by not being upfront about the criteria for the refunds and thus denied them. If they had stated using an emulator would disqualify you as it shows evidence that you can access the game therefore are not losing access to your account, i would have accepted that. OFC there would be others arguing the case because what might work for me may not work for someone else.
The new skill system coming you know they will TRIBBLE that up as well. Nerf things that work fine at mo, it'll be bugged to hell and require several patches to iron it out.
I hope you find something else that you enjoy playing or doing to substitute this game. I'm sure some of us won't be to far behind you in following you to other pastures.
I wish i did have the courage to walk away from the game. I made a harder decision than this a year ago when i quit my job, but its different circumstances. I hated the job and it effected my health to the point where it was unsustainable and not safe for my wellbeing to have stayed. This game i still enjoy its the owners i have issue with. Should i let that get in the way of my time in game as i don't interact with them in game only their Support Team when theres issues ?
It seems pretty evident to me that refunds were intended, but their measures of determining who is eligible might be flawed, if they did indeed consider people using emulators/Wine etc. as non-eligible . Whether you can get that actually to the people that make the decision is questionable and need to be worked.
But I think one problem is - they can't actually detect if you were using an emulator. Wine will look to Cryptic exactly like a normal Windows machine. So how do they distinguish you from someone that uses Mac and Windows interchangeably? That might be more than you expect, and if all those false positives get a refund, this will also cause problems - because it also might make losing lifetime subscription benefits that a customer enjoyed previously.
And -a nyone of you that is trying emulators, Wine or BootCamp _now_ - you strongly imply you seem to have the technical capability to play STO, and also the intention of keeping to play it. If you don't want to give up the game, then there is no need to refund anything either, since you will still benefit from what you purchased.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I can see the Cryptic/PWE point of view so don't think i'm blind to this. However its the way its been carried out and handled that i take issue with.
If no one here back in October hadn't posted a Wine Wrapper to log into the game when they broke the client back when i was still a verified MAC user, i'd have not know any other way to get into the game i was offline for several days until this Wine Wrapper became available.without it for the duration of that outage i would not have been playing the game therefore Cryptic would not have provided me a service during the time of this outage.
.
All my knowledge of emulators have come from helpful people on these forums so thank you.
And that is the is the basis of my dispute for those being denied refunds.
1. If an account shows pre-S11 outage you are a verified MAC user and its only during this outage that status is changed then depending upon whether you showed evidence of going back to Cryptic's Mac Client after it was fixed you should be eligible for a refund not as far back as October i'd say last 30 days seems fair from closure notice
2. If you did not access any type of emulator then you should get refunded. How you as the customer can prove this is the difficult question. (Some have stated here they haven't used one and been declined)
Now i can see Cryptic/PWE POV. However there are certain circumstances that need discretion when giving or not giving a refund such as was the customer verified using a MAC and stopped using one when we couldn't provide access via our client i keep coming back to this as this is very important as its the most important point.
I get the use of an emulator allows access to the game. But also remember these emulators are 3rd party software that Cryptic/PWE cannot provide techencial support for. So although i maybe able to access the game unless i install Windows or buy Windows if i haven't got a copy, i'm using unsupported software to access there game. Therefore although i may still have access to my account use of these 3rd party emulators is solely at my own risk. So why do it why continue to play on software that has no support ?
Dam i wish i could just walk away from this game and follow my wallets example.
Its like my Wednesday night football i enjoy playing but there's certain people i don't like having on my team. Do i stop playing because i dislike these people (Cryptic/PWE) or continue to play (My Enjoyment) but play for myself (My Enjoyment) and not pass the ball (Money) to those people (Cryptic/PWE)
And -a nyone of you that is trying emulators, Wine or BootCamp _now_ - you strongly imply you seem to have the technical capability to play STO, and also the intention of keeping to play it. If you don't want to give up the game, then there is no need to refund anything either, since you will still benefit from what you purchased.
That doesn't really follow. Remember that they are refunding zen back to the ARC balance. Such a refund has no purpose UNLESS you're going to keep playing the game, which you can't do without buying a PC, buying a copy of Windows and setting up Bootcamp, or rolling an emulator. So this clearly was not a refund intended to reimburse people who WOULDN'T be playing the game anymore, but rather one intended to entice people to go through the hassle and/or expense necessary to continue playing.
Well, we've all incurred hassle and/or expense (excepting those who feel they can only keep their self-respect by walking away from something they enjoy, of course). Many of us who used emulators while the client was broken now need to find a better solution, because the emulator isn't a viable long-term option due to performance problems. Those who choose to use Bootcamp must now reboot into an entirely new environment, losing access to the other software they might normally switch between while playing the game. Some of us bought new machines. All of these things were done with the pretty clear and reasonable expectation that the hassle and/or expense would be mitigated by having some zen waiting for us once we got switched over, to say, "hey, sorry we pulled the rug out from under you, we value your business and want to keep you happy, so here's some of your zen back to get some extra stuff."
They can do better, and they need to make it right.
And -a nyone of you that is trying emulators, Wine or BootCamp _now_ - you strongly imply you seem to have the technical capability to play STO, and also the intention of keeping to play it. If you don't want to give up the game, then there is no need to refund anything either, since you will still benefit from what you purchased.
That doesn't really follow. Remember that they are refunding zen back to the ARC balance. Such a refund has no purpose UNLESS you're going to keep playing the game, which you can't do without buying a PC, buying a copy of Windows and setting up Bootcamp, or rolling an emulator. So this clearly was not a refund intended to reimburse people who WOULDN'T be playing the game anymore, but rather one intended to entice people to go through the hassle and/or expense necessary to continue playing.
Well, we've all incurred hassle and/or expense (excepting those who feel they can only keep their self-respect by walking away from something they enjoy, of course). Many of us who used emulators while the client was broken now need to find a better solution, because the emulator isn't a viable long-term option due to performance problems. Those who choose to use Bootcamp must now reboot into an entirely new environment, losing access to the other software they might normally switch between while playing the game. Some of us bought new machines. All of these things were done with the pretty clear and reasonable expectation that the hassle and/or expense would be mitigated by having some zen waiting for us once we got switched over, to say, "hey, sorry we pulled the rug out from under you, we value your business and want to keep you happy, so here's some of your zen back to get some extra stuff."
They can do better, and they need to make it right.
They're keeping out of this and on purpose. The purpose is to hope it dies down. I will still rabble, even if I didn't spend Zen during the time window (I had to look at past transactions and the last one was in May 2015, well outside the window).
Again, a three-tier approach would have worked so much better. If you played on the Mac client f2p, you get 10 Master Keys and the hope that you play on an emulator or Windows partition. If you paid during the window, you get either your money back or DOUBLE the Zen back (I think a lot would get the double Zen). If you had a subscription you either got the money back (and sub dropped) or 25,000 Zen.
Like I said, I don't care how ridiculously OP it sounds to have this happen. This really feels like a curve ball was thrown and it needs some kind of solution other than "let's shut up and hope they all die out."
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Well, the thing about Mac users is we're used to stuff working the way it's supposed to, and so we get really indignant when it doesn't. That goes for both products and service.
I always find it interesting that Windows PC users always feel compelled to chime in on Mac related issues. They arrogantly express their distain for anything non windows as they bathe themselves in the glory of the Bill Gates Kool-Aid. It's bad enough to be so reprehensibly treated by ARC and Perfect World, but after listening to all of the Window's good mac bad dribble for 30+ years I think it's really time for them to get over themselves and keep their uniformed and unwanted opinions silent.
As I have said before, the issue related to the closure is not a mac issue. ARC and Perfect World either misrepresented their intent to issue refunds to mac users or they inaccurately developed their list of mac only users. In either event, as a customer who greatly enjoyed the game and spent considerably more money playing this game than any game ever, I feel I have a right to express my contempt for ARC's and Perfect World's handling of the Mac client closure without a bunch of windows users adding their misinformed two (2) cents.
Sorry to get on my soapbox, but the only hope for any satisfaction on this issue is that someone with ARC or Perfect Would with a molecule of honor or a sense of good business practice may read these posts and be compelled to actually do something to support their customers not their bottom line.
Sorry to get on my soapbox, but the only hope for any satisfaction on this issue is that someone with ARC or Perfect Would with a molecule of honor or a sense of good business practice may read these posts and be compelled to actually do something to support their customers not their bottom line.
In this case, supporting their customers is supporting their bottom line. They stand to bring in a lot more cash in the long term if they treat us well and provide the promised reimbursements than if they treat us poorly, making us want never to spend another dime on Zen.
They're keeping out of this and on purpose. The purpose is to hope it dies down.
Sadly this is exactly what is going to happen. Morally we know they are wrong, they know they wrong.
I had asked Trendy to chime in with any advice but i didn't and could't expect her to do that unless it is was an official statement being made by Cryptic/PWE.
Although i had hoped this would have caught someones attention so a statement could be made. (Who knows perhaps they are still thinking about it and how to word it).
How can we engage and talk to Cryptic/PWE when they are running with full cloak regarding the MAC Closure and refunds.
So some here will stop playing out of principle due to feeling let down, Some will continue but never sink money into the game again and there will be those that simply migrate to emulators/Windows and carry on about their business.
And Cryptic/PWE go about their merry business and this does get forgotten.
Cryptic will is trying to ignore you, and it's not right.
They don't care.
Personally, despite being a Windows 7 user and never having used a Mac, I won't invest money in the game because of this.
One of my Steam friends (and a fellow STO-er) used the Mac client, although it broke on him and refused to work sometime after New Dawn released. While he does intend to get a windows license and use Bootcamp, Cryptic should have reimbursed those who couldn't play. My friend unverified himself as a Mac user by using my computer to do the daily.
I've also been watching this thread in order to try to find solutions for my friend to keep playing the game.
Comments
Although you have a few good points, I want to say where I disagree.
In these days people tend to be more and more selfish. Loyalty and solidarity are gone down the drain. I know this and I can't change this. To bring this picture to the gaming industry it's the same in a lot of communities. Something bad happens to somebody and the result is that others say "I don't care because it didn't happen to me" or "It happened to me, too, but we can't change anything" or the more aggressive "stop whining, nobody will care, shut up, my pc is better than yours". This is whats happening all the time.
let me give you a very tough metaphor (which is just a metaphor for above statement and doesn't stand for the situation with PWE):
When you are standing in a crowd and the person right next to you gets hit by a stone at the head. Would you help him? Or would you say "stop whining, it won't take us anywhere"? Would you blame the one throwing the stone? Or won't you say a word because that guy is stronger than you?
In the end we live in countries with lots of laws regarding customers rights. And YES, we are customers, because we pay for something they are offering us. And the rights for customers are bigger than the gaming industry wants us to know. We are gamers, but due to the fact that we pay money for a service, we are customers, too. No matter what. Stop denying that. Because every time people here in the forums and elsewhere are denying it, or saying that we won't have a chance anyway - every time you say this you are supporting these companies (it still is a company) to do with their customers what they want and in the end steal our money.
Many of you won't stand up against companies. But lets NOW come to a point which is better today than yesterday: the power of masses. If many of us do something against whats happening now (and not only on twitter) - they HAVE to change something in the way they are treating us.
And - I still believe - maybe there is a solution or better way to solve all of this with PWE. I don't know yet and still waiting for reply. We will see. But I definitely won't sit here with my money down the drain. At the moment I feel like somebody hit me with a stone. And the guy right next to me, too. And the conclusion for me is that I want to see a clear reaction to that. One that fits all parties.
Mock Statement not officially from Cryptic or PWE
Hello Captains,
As we mentioned earlier in the month we decided with regret to close the Mac Client and no longer offer support for it, this is due to performance issues which we were not satisfied with and felt we couldn't deliver the service necessary to support our customers using this client and although we considered looking into another client it would mean considerable downtime whilst we built another client and found a new partner to help maintain it, we didn't feel this was financially viable.
As rebate for the closure of the game we offered MAC users
*a Life Time Membership refund and
*Subscription refund from October up until the date of our 1st closure announcement which have been processed.
*We also offered a Zen refund to MAC users.
We apologise for not stating the criteria required to meet qualifying for a refund as we didn't want anyone to be able to manipulate the necessary criteria and be refunded when not really eligible. What we looked at in issuing these refunds was DO our MAC players have or have ever show evidence that they can access the game with either a emulator or Windows ? if the answer was YES we decided across the board regardless of reason to disqualify those players from a refund due to showing us that they could access and continue to play our game via other routes and therefore in being able to do were not eligible for a refund as they have access to any purchases made.
We acknowledge that this access may have been due to our own client's quality of service, however as access to the game was made via other routes we have disqualified those users as the game was accessed via another client.
We understand that emulators are 3rd party software and that we cannot offer support for and that certain emulators may not run the game well on certain settings, however after testing a few of the free emulators out there on the market we felt they performed to a standard that allowed continued gameplay, emulators such as Wine.
We also know MAC's have the ability to install and dual boot the Windows OS (Purchase of a license may be required)
We are sorry that our initial statement may have mislead and given Mac users the wrong impression about refunds but we are only refunding those users that have shown us that they are and have solely only ever used our MAC Client to access the game.
You may feel this to be unfair but its a decision we have decided to go with. Use of an emulator or Windows still allows access to the game and any products purchased via the C-Store, so by using either of these options you still have full access to you're account and therefore not denied access to the game or purchases.
Thank you for your understanding please contact support if you have any further questions.
p.s. Our Team is standing by with shields raised and Corbomite coating to our hulls to reject and deflector you're questions and pleads of unfair disqualification.
Some sort of official statement needs to be made to the customer base to try and help people understand the reasons why refunds have been rejected and to try to repair the fracture and divide that is occurring between the Consumer and Company.
I know this mock up statement would still cause some unhappiness but i think PWE have a lot of Relationship and Trust rebuilding to do here.
Note still doesn't cover those that have posted and said they haven't used an emulator or windows so would like to know why they were declined.
I've given up hope of anybody seeing a refund of Zen, should it be pursued via legal channels?. Although there is some leads to follow on this, it's whether you could convince a lawyer it was worth their time to pursue.
I will answer your metaphor (it's actually much closer to a hypothetical scenario than a metaphor but I'm not going to debate those nuances with you) with this: I'm punching you in the face repeatedly and I'm making you give me your lunch money to help pay for my bandaids when my knuckles bleed. But then I grab your hand and start smacking you in the face with it, telling you to stop punching yourself. And I'm still taking your lunch money. What do you do? Do you fight back or do you just keep taking it and let me take your lunch money (or milkshake if you want that comparison) from you? By the sounds of it, you want to keep letting me punch you in the face and take your lunch money (or milkshake). And that's EXACTLY what happened here in this situation, you are being punched in the face and your lunch money (or milkshake) is being taken from you and you think that if you ask nicely enough or often enough that it's going to stop. By engaging and not realizing that the example laid out by numerous other players points out to them you're a sucker who wants to be taken advantage of. Oh and asking me whether I would help an injured person is beyond a straw man counter argument, takes away from the real issue here, and is close to one of the dumbest counter arguments I've heard ever since the "I know you are but what am I?" incident of 1892. Seriously man, do you enjoy people taking you and your support for granted?
And as for eighrichte, you just demonstrated my example perfectly. It's very rare that I would even say this online, but FFS man show some self-respect. You bought a piece of equipment you clearly don't want or really need to play a game made by a studio that encouraged you to spend your shekels and then takes them all away from you and when you complain plugs their ears and pretends you don't exist. Seriously man, at what point do you look at yourself and say enough is enough?
Dude, nothing is going to happen. No make believe letter that you penned will happen. Just stop living in a fantasy world because the truth is that if something was going to happen, it would have happened by now.
Just enjoy the client until it's pulled and then head off to greener pastures. If you want to keep playing via emulator or whatnot well that's good for you.
I'm just saying customer base is pissed it wouldn't hurt to put out a statement to try and deflame the situation. Its something we know Cryptic and PWE aren't good at or do which is good customer relations
Also I have given up. Little fish doesn't have the teeth or deep pockets to fight the big fish.
Man it is PAINFULLY obvious they don't care about their customer base and whether a certain segment of it is upset because they have the license and believe they have enough Windows users (and Mac players they've sucked into using emulators) to make a go of it. Like I keep saying, enjoy the ride while you can and when it's gone you now have time and resources to devote to other pursuits.
To me, walking away without trying everything (within reason) to get a service provider to provide the service you're due is considerably more embarrassing than trying and failing.
People have to show them that it is not acceptable to treat their customers like this. If we all just shut up and accept it or leave it, companies will stay successful with this behavior most of the times, because it's 50/50 and there still will be enough players spending money until they can successfully sell the company or press all money out of it before they do an official bankruptcy but after they took the money out. If you just shut up and don't do anything - you will be next.
I prefer to stand up for my rights and the rights of others. Because this is the best way to a) find a solution that is fair for everybody - even if it is a compromise and b) stay loyal and true to yourself and what you believe in.
Sorry to put so much pathos in it, but this is Star Trek and not a game that shows up for 1 or 2 years and after that it's gone. I still love the game although I had and have so many problems to play . And I still believe that the people at cryptic can be convinced to play fair and may see that they did a mistake. That happens in the business world. A lot of times. They maybe underestimated the situation. It's okay - can happen. But we can only convince them to play fair and correct their course if we stand together.
It might be a fact that there isn't enough loyalty in the community and that everybody is selfish and nobody cares about he Mac users. It's possible and maybe realistic that most just stand next to somebody who gets punched in the face and robbed and would do nothing to stop it because you say it's not possible to do something. Yes, that might be 2016 and most of the people are doing this.
If so, I will definitely go the legal way. On my own, with full power and very selfish, too. It's too much money to just leave and say nothing. Money that I loved to spend here, but if it turns out that they don't want to discuss or even talk to us, then I will go all the way. Legal, community, credit card company and everything else which is possible and fair enough to let them know I am aware of my rights and aware of fair play.
Some might laugh or just give up. But maybe some of you feel the same. To stand up when somebody was treated unfair. And in this case it's not just somebody, a LOT of the guys you're playing with are treated like this at the moment. Time to do something.
That's the reason why I'm writing here. I still have hope that PWE will come back to us with a fair offer. Even if it is a compromise. But it has to be a fair one. Because what happened in the last weeks is far, far, far away from fair.
No, you're not the only one. Not only is the policy bad — even logging in using an emulator while the Mac client was broken disqualifies you, even if the emulator wasn't actually up to the task of playing the game; even logging in from someone else's PC while out of town on vacation disqualifies you — but even the people who clearly meet the requirements of the bad policy seem to be largely getting disqualified for no apparent reason.
Another generic response to my refund request. Just checked what i spent between October and December last year alone and i'm embarrassed to say its over £500.
Well thank you Cryptic/PWE you have given me some compensation in all this and thats money in my pocket every month that was going to you, New iPad and PC chair is incoming
Personally i think this whole refund was nothing more than an empty promise, a Hoax, lip service to smooth over the discontinuation of the MAC Client.
In all likelihood they checked the user base before announcement and had a very good idea of who had used an emulator and rather than be upfront at the start and say this will disqualify you because !. They simply say MAC users will get a refund misleading many people to think thats what happening only to then after enquiring to be told not directly in any public statement but by Customer Support no refund you used an emulator.
I was going to let it go but as another poster mentioned if you let them get away with it then they'll continue to treat you and behave in this manner. Which is unacceptable.
I'm also interested to know the period of time they looked at to decide to disqualify people and at what point they detected i used an emulator.
was it the last 6 months, 12 months, 18 months or the life of your account ?
Hell this "zen refund" isn't even a real refund. It is a credit applied to your ARC account balance. Technically speaking it doesn't actually cost them anything to apply this credit as its virtual credits. They already got you're money for the initial purchase of Zen
I do find it ironic that Arc can't make their game work well in the Mac "native" environment, but it runs ok in an emulator in said environment. (proving it is NOT a hardware deficiency as all these PC-users keep touting)
I also find it ironic that STO doesn't seem to run faster than 2fps in Windows 10 either... guess they'll have to cancel their support too huh? ;-)
<-- Win10 user, no problems at all.
Also, not everyone was saying it's the hardware.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Win10 user here, running on a laptop at 30-60 FPS. Looks like you're overly optimistic on your graphics settings to me,
Hi All,
Jumping in here with some more information as we've looked into the patching issue again. It looks like there was some issues with the patching server this afternoon, which had players download incorrect data. At this time, the issue is resolved for new players connecting to the patch server (those who have not run into the patching issue). Unfortunately, those who have started patching the bad data will need to continue through the process in order to correct the data that was previously downloaded.
If you started the download before 1:40 pm PT, it would be best to restart the download process in order to ensure that you are receiving the correct files.
Apologies for the inconvenience that this has caused. We appreciate the feedback.
Alex
I'd better not try using an emulator or a Windows pc to bypass this as i'll be unverified as a MAC user and lose any refund due to trying to work around something the game developers broke again.
I'm loaded PlayOnMac to login this evening and hit this patch wall. in order to play i have to download 13gb no way around it via this route.
Now by chance to find a way into the game i've loaded up the official MAC Client which i canned after the closure announcement in order to test PlayOnMac suitability, and because they fixed the issue for anyone NOW logging in i can access the game via this route. But PlayOnMac is screwed until the patch completes 13gb.
However if i did this the other way around i'd be unverified as a MAC user and denied a refund due to someones error at Cryptic/PWE HQ
Can people now understand why MAC users are so furious about being denied a refund due to an error on Cryptic/PWE part
And now support have decided to close my ticket and ignore the issue. Hoping it will all blow over.
I've already seen grumblings of people saying they hope the anniversary event is extended as this patch caused them to not be able to complete the event. If we go by Cryptic's flawed logic regarding the MAC issue, then why should we extend this event as Cryptic gave more than enough days to complete the event and earn bonus tokens. Not Cryptic's fault these people couldn't fit real life commitments around their playtime. But as it costs Cryptic nothing i'll guarantee they'll accommodate these players for Cryptic's error
And guess what man, the studio doesn't care because YOU and others are experimenting with an emulator and are looking for ways to keep supporting the game financially. YOU and others are actually validating this behaviour by continuing to try to support this game. I wasn't going to reply to this thread anymore because the reading comprehension by some of the users on this thread borders on embarrassing but after reading this post I had to put one last comment in: HA HA!!!!
You know the "definition" of insanity right? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Well based on what I've read misterferengi, you and some others keep sending sternly or nicely worded emails clearly outlining why you think you're entitled to any form of refund, they keep punting it back telling you to hit the bricks and then you act surprised or even upset that you got the same response as before. How many times now? Four? Five? Six? More? In a baseball parlance, you've struck out MULTIPLE times. At what point do you look at yourself and say, I need to change my approach on this. I'm not saying the Mac users haven't tried to advocate for themselves (I did and got the same canned garbage answer repeatedly), I'm saying we've tried and have failed to change anything. So stop the insanity!
Seriously, grow a spine and a sense of self-respect and stop supporting this. You're upset that they took away the Mac platform and your money but because some of you are such rubes you think that by engaging, downloading and using a Windows emulator to access the game (the very thing that some Mac users have been "punished" for) that you're actually going to effect some type of change. You're not going to effect any change at all. You actually encourage this kind of behaviour because you're trying to find a way to keep playing. I seriously don't know how some of you gamers can think that by continuing to find ways to play the game that you're going to effect change. Remember, the Mac platform was shut down because it cost them too much money to keep it going to a standard they felt they could get away with. Clearly money is the motivating factor here and yet I continually read Mac users here are trying to find a way to keep sinking dollars into the game but are upset that they've been taking advantage of. There is a SERIOUS disconnect there. If you want to find a way to keep supporting the game, that's your prerogative. However, if you do keep supporting the game then quite frankly shut your mouth because you've forfeited all right to complain about your treatment in this process - you're allowing your support to be taken for granted. Once again by continuing to support you actually validate everything you rail against.
I've said before that I probably would have found a way to find an emulator but because of their epic fail response to a situation entirely of their own making, I certainly won't use an emulator to play this game once the Mac client is shut down. I can't. They have taken my support for granted and haven't earned my loyalty with their behaviour. I have to look at myself in the mirror and respect the person I see. If you view yourself as an angry customer, then you have the choice to act like one and stop supporting this business. If you're inclined, let the license owner (in this case CBS) know how this licensee (Cryptic/Perfect World) has treated you (I'm not taking that approach but have to say I'll be hard-pressed to support anything ST-related going forward). Or you have the choice to download your emulator, play your game and keep supporting this business. Those are your choices. But if you do make that second choice keep quiet because you had a chance to "vote with your wallet" and you didn't. You let yourself be taken advantage of and no matter how hard you argue against that, it's simply true. I've enjoyed my time in the STO universe and met some nice people but when that experience is over, it's over. So this is my last post on this subject because the derp here is too strong for me but I leave with a simple quote I've been often reminded of in reading some of the posters on this thread: A fool and his money are soon parted.
Good for you can i have your stuff ?
For the record i am never sinking another penny into this game or other PWE/Cryptic property. If it weren't that this is a source of entertainment, (thats when i can get into the game the patch f*@k up from last night still has me locked out of my preferred launcher been patching a new 4gb patch to override the corrupted files they sent down last night) that i enjoy and a lack of competition in terms of Star Trek Gaming i would play something else, i might just have a look around anyway only so many times you can run ISA right ?
However although i respect your option and you have valid points, its hard to let this go as this is a situation of Cryptic'PWE own making however trying to deal with Cryptic/PWE s getting us nowhere so maybe it is time to look at other options if they are viable. You can only deal with someone if they are A. Willing to listen and B. Willing to talk which they are not.
They broke the client, they could not give any estimated timeframe on it being repaired. They couldn't provide access to the service. Did they expect us to sit around and wait for them to fix it ? 2/3 weeks it took.
Its quite evident that no refunds were never intended and the statement was simply put in there as lip service to pacify the potential backlash of angry MAC users losing support for there source of entertainment. They then go on to cause the very backlash they wanted to avoid by not being upfront about the criteria for the refunds and thus denied them. If they had stated using an emulator would disqualify you as it shows evidence that you can access the game therefore are not losing access to your account, i would have accepted that. OFC there would be others arguing the case because what might work for me may not work for someone else.
The new skill system coming you know they will TRIBBLE that up as well. Nerf things that work fine at mo, it'll be bugged to hell and require several patches to iron it out.
I hope you find something else that you enjoy playing or doing to substitute this game. I'm sure some of us won't be to far behind you in following you to other pastures.
I wish i did have the courage to walk away from the game. I made a harder decision than this a year ago when i quit my job, but its different circumstances. I hated the job and it effected my health to the point where it was unsustainable and not safe for my wellbeing to have stayed. This game i still enjoy its the owners i have issue with. Should i let that get in the way of my time in game as i don't interact with them in game only their Support Team when theres issues ?
But I think one problem is - they can't actually detect if you were using an emulator. Wine will look to Cryptic exactly like a normal Windows machine. So how do they distinguish you from someone that uses Mac and Windows interchangeably? That might be more than you expect, and if all those false positives get a refund, this will also cause problems - because it also might make losing lifetime subscription benefits that a customer enjoyed previously.
And -a nyone of you that is trying emulators, Wine or BootCamp _now_ - you strongly imply you seem to have the technical capability to play STO, and also the intention of keeping to play it. If you don't want to give up the game, then there is no need to refund anything either, since you will still benefit from what you purchased.
If no one here back in October hadn't posted a Wine Wrapper to log into the game when they broke the client back when i was still a verified MAC user, i'd have not know any other way to get into the game i was offline for several days until this Wine Wrapper became available.without it for the duration of that outage i would not have been playing the game therefore Cryptic would not have provided me a service during the time of this outage.
.
All my knowledge of emulators have come from helpful people on these forums so thank you.
And that is the is the basis of my dispute for those being denied refunds.
1. If an account shows pre-S11 outage you are a verified MAC user and its only during this outage that status is changed then depending upon whether you showed evidence of going back to Cryptic's Mac Client after it was fixed you should be eligible for a refund not as far back as October i'd say last 30 days seems fair from closure notice
2. If you did not access any type of emulator then you should get refunded. How you as the customer can prove this is the difficult question. (Some have stated here they haven't used one and been declined)
Now i can see Cryptic/PWE POV. However there are certain circumstances that need discretion when giving or not giving a refund such as was the customer verified using a MAC and stopped using one when we couldn't provide access via our client i keep coming back to this as this is very important as its the most important point.
I get the use of an emulator allows access to the game. But also remember these emulators are 3rd party software that Cryptic/PWE cannot provide techencial support for. So although i maybe able to access the game unless i install Windows or buy Windows if i haven't got a copy, i'm using unsupported software to access there game. Therefore although i may still have access to my account use of these 3rd party emulators is solely at my own risk. So why do it why continue to play on software that has no support ?
Dam i wish i could just walk away from this game and follow my wallets example.
Its like my Wednesday night football i enjoy playing but there's certain people i don't like having on my team. Do i stop playing because i dislike these people (Cryptic/PWE) or continue to play (My Enjoyment) but play for myself (My Enjoyment) and not pass the ball (Money) to those people (Cryptic/PWE)
That doesn't really follow. Remember that they are refunding zen back to the ARC balance. Such a refund has no purpose UNLESS you're going to keep playing the game, which you can't do without buying a PC, buying a copy of Windows and setting up Bootcamp, or rolling an emulator. So this clearly was not a refund intended to reimburse people who WOULDN'T be playing the game anymore, but rather one intended to entice people to go through the hassle and/or expense necessary to continue playing.
Well, we've all incurred hassle and/or expense (excepting those who feel they can only keep their self-respect by walking away from something they enjoy, of course). Many of us who used emulators while the client was broken now need to find a better solution, because the emulator isn't a viable long-term option due to performance problems. Those who choose to use Bootcamp must now reboot into an entirely new environment, losing access to the other software they might normally switch between while playing the game. Some of us bought new machines. All of these things were done with the pretty clear and reasonable expectation that the hassle and/or expense would be mitigated by having some zen waiting for us once we got switched over, to say, "hey, sorry we pulled the rug out from under you, we value your business and want to keep you happy, so here's some of your zen back to get some extra stuff."
They can do better, and they need to make it right.
They're keeping out of this and on purpose. The purpose is to hope it dies down. I will still rabble, even if I didn't spend Zen during the time window (I had to look at past transactions and the last one was in May 2015, well outside the window).
Again, a three-tier approach would have worked so much better. If you played on the Mac client f2p, you get 10 Master Keys and the hope that you play on an emulator or Windows partition. If you paid during the window, you get either your money back or DOUBLE the Zen back (I think a lot would get the double Zen). If you had a subscription you either got the money back (and sub dropped) or 25,000 Zen.
Like I said, I don't care how ridiculously OP it sounds to have this happen. This really feels like a curve ball was thrown and it needs some kind of solution other than "let's shut up and hope they all die out."
If there are posts here that do not appeal to you, or opinions you disagree with, the best way to deal with that is to resist the urge to add comments. Instead, engage with the content you like! Don't feed the trolls!
Lol, Mac users used to stuff working.
That's quite funny, thank you sir
As I have said before, the issue related to the closure is not a mac issue. ARC and Perfect World either misrepresented their intent to issue refunds to mac users or they inaccurately developed their list of mac only users. In either event, as a customer who greatly enjoyed the game and spent considerably more money playing this game than any game ever, I feel I have a right to express my contempt for ARC's and Perfect World's handling of the Mac client closure without a bunch of windows users adding their misinformed two (2) cents.
Sorry to get on my soapbox, but the only hope for any satisfaction on this issue is that someone with ARC or Perfect Would with a molecule of honor or a sense of good business practice may read these posts and be compelled to actually do something to support their customers not their bottom line.
In this case, supporting their customers is supporting their bottom line. They stand to bring in a lot more cash in the long term if they treat us well and provide the promised reimbursements than if they treat us poorly, making us want never to spend another dime on Zen.
Sadly this is exactly what is going to happen. Morally we know they are wrong, they know they wrong.
I had asked Trendy to chime in with any advice but i didn't and could't expect her to do that unless it is was an official statement being made by Cryptic/PWE.
Although i had hoped this would have caught someones attention so a statement could be made. (Who knows perhaps they are still thinking about it and how to word it).
How can we engage and talk to Cryptic/PWE when they are running with full cloak regarding the MAC Closure and refunds.
So some here will stop playing out of principle due to feeling let down, Some will continue but never sink money into the game again and there will be those that simply migrate to emulators/Windows and carry on about their business.
And Cryptic/PWE go about their merry business and this does get forgotten.
They don't care.
Personally, despite being a Windows 7 user and never having used a Mac, I won't invest money in the game because of this.
One of my Steam friends (and a fellow STO-er) used the Mac client, although it broke on him and refused to work sometime after New Dawn released. While he does intend to get a windows license and use Bootcamp, Cryptic should have reimbursed those who couldn't play. My friend unverified himself as a Mac user by using my computer to do the daily.
I've also been watching this thread in order to try to find solutions for my friend to keep playing the game.