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Worse than Devide et Impera
darthmeow504
Member Posts: 2,302 Arc User
For those of you keeping score at home:
1) We are present for the Tholian destruction of the Na'kuhl star, failing to prevent the use of the Tox Uthat in time. We then defeat the Tholians and secure the TU, and... we go and bury the bloody thing? I fully expected that we would get a chance to repair the star and to not do so is completely unacceptable on every moral level. I only cooperated as long as I did because I expected people who wear the uniform of future Starfleet to conduct themselves like Starfleet and clean up their own messes. By the time I realized the truth it was too late, I was no longer in the right timeframe to do anything and the TU was lost to me as was the expertise to use it since Kal Dano was dead.
2) Now, we're expected to be ok with the signing of this treaty which has at it's core the refusal to undo the aforementioned temporal incursion (the whole thing was caused by Kal Dano coming back with the TU to save the Lukari, after all which is a temporal interference in and of itself)? And worse, we're supposed to fire on, destroy the vessels of, and kill the personnel of the Na'kuhl who are fighting to restore their homeworld against the people who screwed them over and refuse to fix it? We're on the wrong side. We would do the EXACT same thing if we were in the position the Na'kuhl are in and in fact they did everything they should to be considered morally justified. They TRIED to ask nicely, they tried to be diplomatic and work within the system and were flatly denied. Only after exhausting peaceful methods did they resort to force of arms, and they have every right to defend their world and their civilization. They have every reason to consider the temporal agency their declared enemy in a war they didn't start --they were minding their own business when things they had no part in came knocking on their door bearing the gift of destruction. They are innocent victims. It is morally wrong to side against them and do them additional harm.
In the much-derided and now deleted mission Divide et Impera we were fooled into committing an act of war against innocent Romulan scientists and doctors, and the plot railroaded us into doing nothing to stop it long after it should have been obvious the orders were illegal and the mission was a crime. We weren't even given the option to refuse the unlawful order to set weapons to kill, forcing us to abort the mission via metagaming (aka beaming out and refusing to finish) or commit a massacre that any sane Federation captain would absolutely refuse to take part in. Picard or Kirk or Sisko would have put Zelle under arrest immediately and turned themselves over to Romulan authorities in order to testify against Zelle and T'Nae. The game literally gave us no option to do the right thing. And for that, it was completely excoriated by the playerbase.
This, I submit, is far worse because rather than simply a few dozen innocent doctors and scientists we are talking about the destruction of an inhabited star system with all the deaths, trauma, cultural disruption, and other horrible effects on billions of innocent people PLUS the murder of starship crews and persons fighting against these horrific injustices. I for one won't do it. I aborted the mission and will drop it from my queue. I won't have my character take part in these crimes. I'm here to play Starfleet officers, not war criminals. That uniform stands for something, and Gene Roddenberry would be spinning in his grave to see the things done by people claiming to carry the banner of Starfleet. My character may not be granted a choice by the gameplay railroad, but I do. I won't be part of it.
Someone in the writing staff needs to get an education on Starfleet ethics or another job writing for a different setting where those ethics are not a core part of the IP.
1) We are present for the Tholian destruction of the Na'kuhl star, failing to prevent the use of the Tox Uthat in time. We then defeat the Tholians and secure the TU, and... we go and bury the bloody thing? I fully expected that we would get a chance to repair the star and to not do so is completely unacceptable on every moral level. I only cooperated as long as I did because I expected people who wear the uniform of future Starfleet to conduct themselves like Starfleet and clean up their own messes. By the time I realized the truth it was too late, I was no longer in the right timeframe to do anything and the TU was lost to me as was the expertise to use it since Kal Dano was dead.
2) Now, we're expected to be ok with the signing of this treaty which has at it's core the refusal to undo the aforementioned temporal incursion (the whole thing was caused by Kal Dano coming back with the TU to save the Lukari, after all which is a temporal interference in and of itself)? And worse, we're supposed to fire on, destroy the vessels of, and kill the personnel of the Na'kuhl who are fighting to restore their homeworld against the people who screwed them over and refuse to fix it? We're on the wrong side. We would do the EXACT same thing if we were in the position the Na'kuhl are in and in fact they did everything they should to be considered morally justified. They TRIED to ask nicely, they tried to be diplomatic and work within the system and were flatly denied. Only after exhausting peaceful methods did they resort to force of arms, and they have every right to defend their world and their civilization. They have every reason to consider the temporal agency their declared enemy in a war they didn't start --they were minding their own business when things they had no part in came knocking on their door bearing the gift of destruction. They are innocent victims. It is morally wrong to side against them and do them additional harm.
In the much-derided and now deleted mission Divide et Impera we were fooled into committing an act of war against innocent Romulan scientists and doctors, and the plot railroaded us into doing nothing to stop it long after it should have been obvious the orders were illegal and the mission was a crime. We weren't even given the option to refuse the unlawful order to set weapons to kill, forcing us to abort the mission via metagaming (aka beaming out and refusing to finish) or commit a massacre that any sane Federation captain would absolutely refuse to take part in. Picard or Kirk or Sisko would have put Zelle under arrest immediately and turned themselves over to Romulan authorities in order to testify against Zelle and T'Nae. The game literally gave us no option to do the right thing. And for that, it was completely excoriated by the playerbase.
This, I submit, is far worse because rather than simply a few dozen innocent doctors and scientists we are talking about the destruction of an inhabited star system with all the deaths, trauma, cultural disruption, and other horrible effects on billions of innocent people PLUS the murder of starship crews and persons fighting against these horrific injustices. I for one won't do it. I aborted the mission and will drop it from my queue. I won't have my character take part in these crimes. I'm here to play Starfleet officers, not war criminals. That uniform stands for something, and Gene Roddenberry would be spinning in his grave to see the things done by people claiming to carry the banner of Starfleet. My character may not be granted a choice by the gameplay railroad, but I do. I won't be part of it.
Someone in the writing staff needs to get an education on Starfleet ethics or another job writing for a different setting where those ethics are not a core part of the IP.
:origin()/pre15/2383/th/pre/i/2013/224/7/e/star_trek_idic_facebook_cover_by_athdaraseleya-d6hri4e.jpg)
The D in IDIC doesn't stand for discrimination, and neither does this poster.
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2. We have reason to believe that Kal Dano was in fact combating a temporal incursion by saving the Lukari i.e. enforcing the Temporal Accords. Which would make the Tholians the Temporal aggressors. We know they are involved in temporal and interdimensional shenanigans. That still provides no explanation as to why we didn't restore the star before hiding the Uthat. Nor does it explain Ben Walker's "But thou must" explanation as to why he couldn't intervene. Clearly without the Tox Uthat, there's Na'khul's star wouldn't be compromised, unless the Tholians used the method they used on the Lukari star of course.
But. The Na'khul are not held blameless here. While it is a future Federation agent's fault that the technology used against them existed at all, it was the Tholians who pulled the trigger. And it was Na'khul who locked us out of their system and refused any aid for the Federation officers in the present to try and set right what had gone wrong.
I'm not so sure how peaceful the Na'khul have been. The Na'khul ambassador on hand said that they had been called terrorists. Which means they had used violence in the past. This is of course meaningful and logical, the destruction of their homeworld had to have caused massive social upheaval. Every societal system in their civilization likely collapsed. So they should be commended for even surviving to the 28th century.
Frankly the appeals they made should've been for the Temporal Accords to be applied to their situation and have the Temporal Integrity Commission recover the Tox Uthat and use it to restore their star, instead of opposing them all together.
Which brings me to a theory I read in another thread. One that points out the Tholians belief that the Temporal Accords are too soft and that should it fail the Tholians would enforce it aggressively of their own initiative. If we consider the Tholians to be rational actors, then it's possible the Na'khul in the future still act aggressively outside the bounds of the Temporal Accords and the Tholians were taking steps to protect themselves and the timeline...by preemptively crushing the Na'khul.
So you may want to take your First Duty to its natural conclusion. And look at the whole truth before hanging it up. I think there's more here to be seen.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
"The higher the fewer."
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10052253
Why are you not rejoicing?
Perhaps the same is true here (manipulated by Kal Dano and a whole lotta other 'cloak and dagger' time agents so we don't know which way is up anymore). Note: we are in an alternate timeline, obviously, in the latest episode. There was never any recorded attack on the Temporal Accords signing. WE will be the ones to set that straight, most likely by following the principles of Starfleet (and the moral/honor compasses of other powers). ....or at least I hope the writers allow us to redeem ourselves in this fashion in the end.
arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
The actions of Vosk and twenty of his followers don't necessarily reflect the morality of an entire race. The Na'Kuhl we see in STO seem to be pretty reasonable people, no different than humans would act in the same situation.
I agree that burying the Tox Uthat instead of fixing the star was unreasonable. At the very least the devs should have had a throwaway line excusing it somehow. But that's already been debated plenty. :P
As for the Temporal Accords ... I think time travel should have been banned completely, like the Tholians wanted. Yeah, the Na'Kuhl lost their home and that's horrible, but so did the Romulans. And they came back with a vengeance in less than thirty years. If the Na'Kuhl want to wallow in misery for three hundred years rather than actively rebuild, that's their choice, but I won't hesitate to fire on them if they try anything nasty. And Noye is just delusional, maybe as much as Nero. Diplomacy won't work on him; we'll have to either lock him up or put him down.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
My character Tsin'xing
I agree completely with the OP. The entire story arc should be reconsidered. I find it odd they rushed the end of the Iconian conflict to bring us this.
I have no doubt the team worked hard on this mission and it looks great, but the story takes us in a direction I don't want to go. After that mission, I feel actual shame, but not just for the loss of life (innocent or otherwise) but also for loss of integrity and dignity. To paraphrase our fearless leader, "This is not who we are." As far as I can tell, this mission is completely unplayable.
Exactly.
Yes but you see the problem with that thinking is the fact that Kal Dano bears responsibility for his incusion, it is because he decided he'd go back and "fix" things that he created a bigger problem. If one were to try to go back and fix what Kal Dano created you may save the Na'kuhl but at what cost? How many other civilizations may be inadvertently destroyed in the process? You're right it isn't "fair" for Na'kuhl and their feeling are understandable but that doesn't justify further meddling with the timeline which may do even greater harm.
Because the Federation and its allies helped build the Annorax, and it was a Starfleet Officer who was in command at the time?
More accurately, it hasn't yet come to exist because this is the set up for their time travel back to earth; this stupidity of the Federation sets them onto that path.
Essentially, STO present f**ks up and causes the Temporal War. And specifically the Xindi conflict. And the Iconian conflict. Like, the Alliance should just stop messing around with stuff they don't understand...
Earth under attack by Iconians: go back in time and wipe them out! Time travel is the only way!
Na'kul star goes out killing most life in the system: you can't go back and fix it! Time travel is wrong!
Pfffft... if Sol went out we'd be on the first Pashtak back and change the event. But it's ok for US to do it, we're Starfleet. You can't do it, Mr Nakul, cos you are far too unimportant, unwashed and unworthy. Stiff upper lip, old chap, that's the spirit.
I understood the New Romulus/Hobus conundrum, changing that would undo the Republic. Give us Liberty or give us death abd all that. BUT, the Nakul have done nothing to no-one (yet), and it isn't an event from 30 years ago, it's an event from last month.
But then.. if we fix the Nakul star in Ep3, there is no ep4 lol.