I can see Alec Peters' rationale: Axanar needs him full-time, meaning he can't work on anything else, thus making restitution to free up his time a production cost...
I wish I could accept that, I really do. But no one is forcing him to do this project. He is *choosing* to devote all of his time to it, and *choosing* not to do whatever normal work he would be doing to make his money. So no, he can't choose to stop working, then pay himself with the funds he raised for his non profit film based on an IP he doesn't even have the rights to use. Not only he is breaking the copyright rules by profiting from this project, he is also breaking the trust of the donors by using their donated funds to fund future projects that have nothing to do with Axanar.
Exactly... Like I said, I can see his thinking, but that doesn't make it right, or mean it's going to wash in court... He's in deeeeep TRIBBLE, and sadly, either too egotistical or too stupid to realize it... :-\
So, I donated $25 to this project. I had that money at that time (my first rule is that I never spent money I don't have, except on a house in the future), and my second rule means that I can forget about that money spent pretty fast. I made other purchases in the past that I regrettedd afterwards, but I felt that continuing to feel pissed off about said purchases just wasn't worth it.
That being said, Axanar did stuff wrong. Up to this moment, they still credit Tony Todd as an actor, despite him being out of the project for months already. Their financial record was shady, and indeed Alec should simply have had the funds to not have a job for a while, or simply have a job next to Axanar. He went to create a movie, pay himself (thus making a profit), and fund a studio he intends to use for future productions, all using the Star Trek IP and making people pay him based on the claim that all funds would go directly into Axanar.
I still want to see Axanar, I really do. I just don't see it happening without damaging other fan film productions. I watched many and disliked most of them, but both Continues and Horizon have my full interest. From what I gathered though Axanar's best line of defense is to draw attention to all of these projects, and that can end prety bad.
I still stand with my first comment that CBS/Paramount should have intervened earlier if they were going to, and that they could have decided to file such a big lawsuit on any other day than Christmas (I mean come on....., thats just childish). I still feel that CBS is making a huge mistake with Trek 2017 Series to be on CBS-Netflix (US only). None of that however changes the fact that also Axanar TRIBBLE up a lot.
Here is what I feel to be the best solution.
1) Axanar publishes exactly every ticket of every dime they spent so far. Even on planks of wood purchased at the local whatever those do-it-yourself shops are called in the US. Acccountability for every single dime. And if money is found to be spent on places it shouldn't be, it will be reimbursed through any means possible and poured back into the Axanar funds.
2) Alec Peters withdraws every single coin he paid to himself and his other two full-time staffmembers. I don't care where he spent it so far, but he pays all of that back into the Axanar funds. Even if that means selling his own property.
3) Ares Studios is officially transferred to CBS/Paramount. I mean the studio buildings and property, I could give a rats TRIBBLE about its name. This is done with the agreement that the Axanar team may keep using these studios until the time they finished work on Axanar. CBS doesn't really deserve these buildings either, but it might be a good way to calm them down about profit. Alternatively the explicit agreement is made that these studios will be auctioned/sold/disrented (whatever they have with these) as soon as Axanar is finished.
4) The Axanar donor store is closed immediately. Any unprocessed orders are reimbursed and cancelled. This store is just irky.
5) CBS/Paramount drop the lawsuit as soon as the above 3 criteria have been met, allowing for Axanar to resume production and still allow them to finish the movie and give the donors the perks they deserve.
This would ensure Axanar is and remains a non-profit fan film, but allow it to continue. At least in my opinion.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
However this turns out, I find it fascinating that the "fans" turn from blind support to mouth-frothing rage every time a new detail is revealed. The page linked above, even it's only in commentary, had a "CBS is wrong" just two days ago and today it's "Axanar ruins fan productions forever"
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
However this turns out, I find it fascinating that the "fans" turn from blind support to mouth-frothing rage every time a new detail is revealed. The page linked above, even it's only in commentary, had a "CBS is wrong" just two days ago and today it's "Axanar ruins fan productions forever"
message board proof that people should wait until all the facts are in before rendering judgement and support.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
However this turns out, I find it fascinating that the "fans" turn from blind support to mouth-frothing rage every time a new detail is revealed. The page linked above, even it's only in commentary, had a "CBS is wrong" just two days ago and today it's "Axanar ruins fan productions forever"
message board proof that people should wait until all the facts are in before rendering judgement and support.
Indeed, but it's also a reason entities involved should be more forthcoming too in the start, but hopefully now everyone can see things more for what they are here.
It's also worth pointing out in full devils advocate mode, that even if all of us would have liked to see this take off, just imagine you yourself having created some intellectual property that became popular, but then other people decide to start claiming it for themselves and reshaping it to how they think it should be, and make profit from it instead of you, wouldn't anyone be upset by that action which is literally stealing? This is why CBS/Paramount is doing this, and should. Copyright/Trademark enforcement is already too lax as it is these days with ripping off and plagiarizing concepts that is so wholesale today and yet completely legal it seems. Examples must be made, and that is the rights of any IP holder must always be respected, or no one elses rights could ever be either.
However this turns out, I find it fascinating that the "fans" turn from blind support to mouth-frothing rage every time a new detail is revealed. The page linked above, even it's only in commentary, had a "CBS is wrong" just two days ago and today it's "Axanar ruins fan productions forever"
message board proof that people should wait until all the facts are in before rendering judgement and support.
Indeed, but it's also a reason entities involved should be more forthcoming too in the start,
Um, no. CBS knows better than to be making public statements about impending litigation. It is the Axanar people(well, a few) that are talking too much for their own good and making their situation even worse by pretending to be the victim when they are the ones in the wrong. But CBS does not owe anyone an explanation, and is probably legally advised not to talk about it even if they wanted to.
However this turns out, I find it fascinating that the "fans" turn from blind support to mouth-frothing rage every time a new detail is revealed. The page linked above, even it's only in commentary, had a "CBS is wrong" just two days ago and today it's "Axanar ruins fan productions forever"
message board proof that people should wait until all the facts are in before rendering judgement and support.
Indeed, but it's also a reason entities involved should be more forthcoming too in the start,
Um, no. CBS knows better than to be making public statements about impending litigation. It is the Axanar people(well, a few) that are talking too much for their own good and making their situation even worse by pretending to be the victim when they are the ones in the wrong. But CBS does not owe anyone an explanation, and is probably legally advised not to talk about it even if they wanted to.
Ah, true (Shouldn't post when half awake...). Just that when things go down the legal road, things can be in the dark for a while and that leads to people coming to premature conclusions. It is a PR catch 22 really then for the involved entities. But makes sense that they have to let things run their course before making statements.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but the only information *I* am using is your own annual report and your own statements. Unfortunately, you are clearly breaking the standard rules for fan films, and are now paying the price. You would do far better to just admit your “mistake” and apologize than pretend to be a victim and attack people who actually appreciate your project but don’t like the bad decisions you have made.
Even if the links don't work, refer to the post number in front of his user name and mine to find the comments. Also, I never made any comments about the props, so he was responding to other people's comments on that issue.
If you guys haven't listened to the latest G&T Show, you should check it out. They actually had someone with a law degree unpacking the lawsuit, and showing just how screwed Alec Peters and Axanar Productions is (they mentioned, for example, the building of their Ares Studio, which I didn't even bring up).
It's a giant can of worms, and Peters is really starting to look like a shady character... but their analysis is worth a listen.
Bob orci or whatever his name is commented too. . . Now even though that's a discussion for another time. . shouldn't he being a voice of cbs of sorts since his appointment in the new trek series 2017 be staying well well well away from this lol. . .
Although his comments and others responses are very funny lol
It certainly isn't helping my impression of things to see him lash out with personally-tinged remarks. It is one thing to say, "We have more information that we can't discuss until we get to court so please avoid premature conclusions." What he actually SAID comes off in a very unprofessional and immature manner.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Bob orci or whatever his name is commented too. . . Now even though that's a discussion for another time. . shouldn't he being a voice of cbs of sorts since his appointment in the new trek series 2017 be staying well well well away from this lol. . .
Although his comments and others responses are very funny lol
Bob Orci is not attached to the new 2017 Trek series. Alex Kurtzman is.
Alex Kurtzman and Bob Orci are two different people. They used to be working partners, but aren't anymore.
Both Kurtzman and Orci are not JJ Abrams. They are also not employees of Bad Robot.
135. boborci - December 30, 2015
lucky i got away with two fan films before this
AHAHAHAAHAAA
Not exactly a comment with substance, but plenty of style.
79. Gene Liffs - December 30, 2015
This isn’t about greed, or about jealousy, or about hatred of the fans. It’s about Alec Peters fleecing the fans to pay himself a salary and open a for-profit studio with the leftover funding. That’s profit, and that’s the one thing you are absolutely not ever, EVER allowed to do with a fan film.
Axanar isn’t getting hit because it’s full of money. It’s getting hit because it ABUSED its financial resources. Why now? Because last week Axanar released a financial disclosure to donors that was full of red flags.
Other fan projects, from big fish like Continues and Phase II, all the way down to small fry like Outlaws, will only get hurt by this if they allow themselves to get pulled into the fray — or if Alec Peters forces the issue by pretending his show acts like every other fan show.
This is about hubris — about a man who flew wayyyyy too close to the sun on wax wings even when he was warned they’d melt.
That sums up my thoughts. Also:
349. Mike Barnett - January 1, 2016
As a donor, I have access to the Axanar financial report. I hope it’s OK that I post this.
EXPENSES
Salaries
1099 $17,420.00
Alec Peters $38,166.57
Diana Kingsbury Deferred till 2016
Robert Burnett $5,000.00
Curtis Laseter $9,800.00
Salaries $48,042.31
…to help out with fundraising, which funds include the salary he is taking.
So again Peters is ineptly managing Axanar like a BRAND of Star Trek which is HIS to license out, and this is just one thing out of a bunch of things that no doubt caught the attention of CBS.
The people at Hansa are Star Trek fans and they initiated the contact with Peters, and then a lightbulb went on over Peters’ head that he could get more money by selling officially branded Axanar coffee made by a real company.
…to help out with fundraising, which funds include the salary he is taking.
So again Peters is ineptly managing Axanar like a BRAND of Star Trek which is HIS to license out, and this is just one thing out of a bunch of things that no doubt caught the attention of CBS.
The people at Hansa are Star Trek fans and they initiated the contact with Peters, and then a lightbulb went on over Peters’ head that he could get more money by selling officially branded Axanar coffee made by a real company.
Plus the T-Shirts (at least one of which violates a Dreamworks' copyright), starship models, soundtracks, DVD/Blu Rays, patches, and novella.
What he actually SAID comes off in a very unprofessional and immature manner.
because he's NOT a professional! He's just a fan makin a fan film!! lol sorry... had to
I love Gladiator so much
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
@grandnaguszek1 I agree, that's where the problem lies. At first I was so sad that CBS would potentially stop Axanar since I had been looking forward to see it. But after reading through his list of expenses and what he has been saying about his studio and so on. I now understand what CBS might have a problem with. It's not only that he is giving himself and others salaries but some of the other expenses are quite questionable for a non-profitable fan funded project. Not to mention it clear he is using these funds to start his company and host other projects with said funding. Since they do not have permission to use the IP for profit and gained the funding on false pretense, that is a problem. It had been a different thing if this was a movie of his own IP and brand. But I think the worse thing is this how Ares studio was created and the store selling the brand which is not his to use in this ferengi way behavior , .. So yeah .. I can understand now why CBS did this.
However this turns out, I find it fascinating that the "fans" turn from blind support to mouth-frothing rage every time a new detail is revealed. The page linked above, even it's only in commentary, had a "CBS is wrong" just two days ago and today it's "Axanar ruins fan productions forever"
message board proof that people should wait until all the facts are in before rendering judgement and support.
I was guilty of immediately siding with Axanar before knowing the full details.
Setting up a film studio ( a business) with crowd funded fund's, is the very definition of profiting from the project, and that isn't even taking into consideration that Alec Peter's was also taking a salary from the same fund's...
I feel CBS is doing a mistake with how they are going to release the new Star Trek series. First of all, they are limiting the access quite a bit. Not sure how many will pay to see it or how many that can access it due to location. It's really terrible how they have managed Star Trek in the last decade or so. These fan films of series have come up because CBS ( sure there has been movies but ...) has done - as it seems - basically nothing with their Star Trek IP for many years now. Fans are craving more Star Trek... If they actually had used their IP to create a new Star Trek show, other than this lovely game which I absolutely love and hope continues for many years ahead.., then this disaster wouldn't have happened. Although I appreciate the NuTrek movies I do feel sometimes that it destroyed a bit of the brand by basically setting this NuTrek in a different universe. Don't get me wrong I do like the movies and the new cast .. But it gets confusing. I can imagine it would for any new fan. Instead of focusing on same old Kirk and Spock characters I wish they had made other stories in same universe. Or redo Star Trek next generation with new younger cast and display it in a tv show Just something ...
I feel CBS is doing a mistake with how they are going to release the new Star Trek series. First of all, they are limiting the access quite a bit. Not sure how many will pay to see it it how many that can die to location. It's really terrible how they have managed Star Trek in the last decade. These fan films of series have come up because CBS ( sure there has been movies but ...) has done it seems basically nothing with their Star Trek IP for many years now. Fans are craving more Star Trek... If they actually had used their IP to create a new good Star Trek show, other than this lovely game which I absolutely love and hope continues for many years ahead.., then this disaster wouldn't have happened. Although I appreciate the NuTrek movies I do feel sometimes that it destroyed a bit of the brand by basically setting this NuTrek in a different universe. Don't get me wrong I do like the movies and the new cast .. But it gets confusing. I can imagine it would for any new fan. Instead of focusing on same old characters I wish they had made other stories in same universe. Or redo Star Trek next generation with new younger cast. Just something ...
See, I don't understand this "demonization" of CBS... and I'm glad it's calming down in relation to this particular Axanar story, but it's still happening.
The IP is not owned by CBS alone, and (at least) some are under the impression that CBS was under a no-compete agreement with Paramount/Bad Robot for three movies (and, if true, will end with the release of Star Trek Beyond). It's quite possible that their hands were tied, legally, with regard to doing something new with the IP.
As for their distribution model... this is the future of television, whether we like it or not. Whether or not it will be successful remains to be seen, but I think 99% of Trek fans will pay for it, especially if it's good. Plus, just because it's release in first-run on this new streaming service in the US, doesn't mean it will bypass other methods (iTunes season passes, Netflix, etc.).
I feel CBS is doing a mistake with how they are going to release the new Star Trek series. First of all, they are limiting the access quite a bit. Not sure how many will pay to see it it how many that can die to location. It's really terrible how they have managed Star Trek in the last decade. These fan films of series have come up because CBS ( sure there has been movies but ...) has done it seems basically nothing with their Star Trek IP for many years now. Fans are craving more Star Trek... If they actually had used their IP to create a new good Star Trek show, other than this lovely game which I absolutely love and hope continues for many years ahead.., then this disaster wouldn't have happened. Although I appreciate the NuTrek movies I do feel sometimes that it destroyed a bit of the brand by basically setting this NuTrek in a different universe. Don't get me wrong I do like the movies and the new cast .. But it gets confusing. I can imagine it would for any new fan. Instead of focusing on same old characters I wish they had made other stories in same universe. Or redo Star Trek next generation with new younger cast. Just something ...
See, I don't understand this "demonization" of CBS... and I'm glad it's calming down in relation to this particular Axanar story, but it's still happening.
The IP is not owned by CBS alone, and (at least) some are under the impression that CBS was under a no-compete agreement with Paramount/Bad Robot for three movies (and, if true, will end with the release of Star Trek Beyond). It's quite possible that their hands were tied, legally, with regard to doing something new with the IP.
As for their distribution model... this is the future of television, whether we like it or not. Whether or not it will be successful remains to be seen, but I think 99% of Trek fans will pay for it, especially if it's good. Plus, just because it's release in first-run on this new streaming service in the US, doesn't mean it will bypass other methods (iTunes season passes, Netflix, etc.).
to my knowledge it is only premiered on this service its going to be show else where and on other services tv stations around the world..
Having said that, someone going thru the motions of fundraising for an entire movie, should have the foresight to grasp that not obtaining 'written and express approval', prior to using clearly copyrighted material, is never a wise idea (even when you claim to make no profit off your project -- which is actually irrelevant).
Just a quick note. First no decision has even been made as to if the case can even go forward. The courts get to decide that. I'm curious to see where the venue of the trial will be, and who will be attorney of record for Axanar Productions. As for Alex Peters paying him self... a not for profit can have employee's. I've sat on board for 3 different 401 3c's over the years. The studio may have a case, or they may not a case.. the courts will decide, based apon the merits of the cause, not public opinion.
I personally am of the opinion the network could care less if they actually win the case. What I see is a tactic to delay, and possibly kill what they see is maybe a yard stick the networks announced new star trek series may get measured against. A law suit is a fantastic way to stop a competitor that doesn't have deep pockets. I doubt if Axanar Productions can afford what a full on legal defence would cost.
What we have seen out of Axanar Productions is very high quality, well written and acted.
A judge will decide but considering how fast and loose the network has played with in own IP over the years, it wouldn't surprise me if a judge refused the case after the initial hearing baseduapon precedent the network, and Paramount have done in their past actions dealing with fan productions.
There are quite a few "Fan" projects that have appeared over the 15 years. Some really, some even great, but you did have to ignore the less then stellar props and sets with a few of them.
CBS is not holy and pure on this matter, and I find it rather difficult to believe they are an "injured party" ... just the timing says this. The rating numbers for the original Star trek were faked up to convince the network way back when the Trek was a failed show. AC Nielson lied, and I've always found it a rather difficult line to swallow that no one at the network knew that AC Nielson lied about the ratings.
Star trek is popular but not because of the networks handling of the property. Its popular because fans like it... a lot of fans.
Its not Star wars.. star wars is the adventure story in space.. simple story, simple message. Trek has always examined to human condition.
I'll follow the story as it evolves, but CBS isn't suing in the interests of the public., or to protect its control of the IP (though there might be a bit of taking back control of the IP that at a lot of levels they just didn't care about other then if it made money)
It's about "Money", Not Axanar Productions money, but the money CBS hasn't made yet of the next Trek series.
Ignore what you here from CBS spin casting this for media consumption. They're just muscle flexing.
Peters prolly told a CBS exec he was being a jerk during a visit, and someone's ego got butt hurt, and that's the REAL reason for the law suit.
Axanar is still a "not for profit" production. But is paying the help to be considered "profit taking"? And how is this going to effect Non Profits that have paid employee's? This is Civil law, not Criminal law, precedent counts.. It what lawyers refer to as making new law. And the courts are cautious about allowing new precedents to be set that might have far ranging effects.
I'm personally not sure how much of a leg to stand on CBS has, but I personally feel this is a very unwise call on the Networks part.
Especially seeing I'm one of the fans that kicked in money to the Kickstarter. Am I going to get sued by CBS for donating money next? Straitening out Axanar production financial issues just doesn't strike me as something CBS would do. Going out to save the public from "Bad Guys" is rather out of character for them. The timing is interesting coming so soon after CBS announced it will start production on a new Star Trek series.. and to me, highly suspect.
Basicly somethings not Kosher here, and I can't help but feel that the issue isn't with Axanar, or Alex Peter paying him self (assuming that what he did, and not what I suspect he did which was recover some of his initial out of pocket expenses to get the whole thing rolling in the first place. He may have been wrong to do so...But that can be easily corrected with out killing the project.. "Sorry Alex, the Judge said give the money back!"
I HIGHLY doubt that fans who contributed to the Kickstarter would be at any risk. If anything, you all have allegedly been defrauded, should the claims of financial mismanagement, misrepresentation, or violation of an agreement with CBS turn out to be true. I don't think CBS would have any reason to stop the backers from taking whatever measures they needed to take to get their money back.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Comments
That being said, Axanar did stuff wrong. Up to this moment, they still credit Tony Todd as an actor, despite him being out of the project for months already. Their financial record was shady, and indeed Alec should simply have had the funds to not have a job for a while, or simply have a job next to Axanar. He went to create a movie, pay himself (thus making a profit), and fund a studio he intends to use for future productions, all using the Star Trek IP and making people pay him based on the claim that all funds would go directly into Axanar.
I still want to see Axanar, I really do. I just don't see it happening without damaging other fan film productions. I watched many and disliked most of them, but both Continues and Horizon have my full interest. From what I gathered though Axanar's best line of defense is to draw attention to all of these projects, and that can end prety bad.
I still stand with my first comment that CBS/Paramount should have intervened earlier if they were going to, and that they could have decided to file such a big lawsuit on any other day than Christmas (I mean come on....., thats just childish). I still feel that CBS is making a huge mistake with Trek 2017 Series to be on CBS-Netflix (US only). None of that however changes the fact that also Axanar TRIBBLE up a lot.
Here is what I feel to be the best solution.
1) Axanar publishes exactly every ticket of every dime they spent so far. Even on planks of wood purchased at the local whatever those do-it-yourself shops are called in the US. Acccountability for every single dime. And if money is found to be spent on places it shouldn't be, it will be reimbursed through any means possible and poured back into the Axanar funds.
2) Alec Peters withdraws every single coin he paid to himself and his other two full-time staffmembers. I don't care where he spent it so far, but he pays all of that back into the Axanar funds. Even if that means selling his own property.
3) Ares Studios is officially transferred to CBS/Paramount. I mean the studio buildings and property, I could give a rats TRIBBLE about its name. This is done with the agreement that the Axanar team may keep using these studios until the time they finished work on Axanar. CBS doesn't really deserve these buildings either, but it might be a good way to calm them down about profit. Alternatively the explicit agreement is made that these studios will be auctioned/sold/disrented (whatever they have with these) as soon as Axanar is finished.
4) The Axanar donor store is closed immediately. Any unprocessed orders are reimbursed and cancelled. This store is just irky.
5) CBS/Paramount drop the lawsuit as soon as the above 3 criteria have been met, allowing for Axanar to resume production and still allow them to finish the movie and give the donors the perks they deserve.
This would ensure Axanar is and remains a non-profit fan film, but allow it to continue. At least in my opinion.
Join the Deltas today!
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
message board proof that people should wait until all the facts are in before rendering judgement and support.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Indeed, but it's also a reason entities involved should be more forthcoming too in the start, but hopefully now everyone can see things more for what they are here.
It's also worth pointing out in full devils advocate mode, that even if all of us would have liked to see this take off, just imagine you yourself having created some intellectual property that became popular, but then other people decide to start claiming it for themselves and reshaping it to how they think it should be, and make profit from it instead of you, wouldn't anyone be upset by that action which is literally stealing? This is why CBS/Paramount is doing this, and should. Copyright/Trademark enforcement is already too lax as it is these days with ripping off and plagiarizing concepts that is so wholesale today and yet completely legal it seems. Examples must be made, and that is the rights of any IP holder must always be respected, or no one elses rights could ever be either.
Um, no. CBS knows better than to be making public statements about impending litigation. It is the Axanar people(well, a few) that are talking too much for their own good and making their situation even worse by pretending to be the victim when they are the ones in the wrong. But CBS does not owe anyone an explanation, and is probably legally advised not to talk about it even if they wanted to.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Ah, true (Shouldn't post when half awake...). Just that when things go down the legal road, things can be in the dark for a while and that leads to people coming to premature conclusions. It is a PR catch 22 really then for the involved entities. But makes sense that they have to let things run their course before making statements.
http://trekmovie.com/2015/12/30/star-trek-axanar-fan-film-sued-by-paramount-and-cbs-over-copyright-infringement/#5291625
My response:
http://trekmovie.com/2015/12/30/star-trek-axanar-fan-film-sued-by-paramount-and-cbs-over-copyright-infringement/#5291666
Even if the links don't work, refer to the post number in front of his user name and mine to find the comments. Also, I never made any comments about the props, so he was responding to other people's comments on that issue.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
It's a giant can of worms, and Peters is really starting to look like a shady character... but their analysis is worth a listen.
Although his comments and others responses are very funny lol
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Yet hosted by the same page...
1701news.com/node/979/commentary-axanar-lawsuit-questionable-step.html
Bob Orci is not attached to the new 2017 Trek series. Alex Kurtzman is.
Alex Kurtzman and Bob Orci are two different people. They used to be working partners, but aren't anymore.
Both Kurtzman and Orci are not JJ Abrams. They are also not employees of Bad Robot.
Just a few facts to remember...
Not exactly a comment with substance, but plenty of style. That sums up my thoughts. Also:
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
because he's NOT a professional! He's just a fan makin a fan film!! lol sorry... had to
Plus the T-Shirts (at least one of which violates a Dreamworks' copyright), starship models, soundtracks, DVD/Blu Rays, patches, and novella.
I love Gladiator so much
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I was guilty of immediately siding with Axanar before knowing the full details.
Setting up a film studio ( a business) with crowd funded fund's, is the very definition of profiting from the project, and that isn't even taking into consideration that Alec Peter's was also taking a salary from the same fund's...
See, I don't understand this "demonization" of CBS... and I'm glad it's calming down in relation to this particular Axanar story, but it's still happening.
The IP is not owned by CBS alone, and (at least) some are under the impression that CBS was under a no-compete agreement with Paramount/Bad Robot for three movies (and, if true, will end with the release of Star Trek Beyond). It's quite possible that their hands were tied, legally, with regard to doing something new with the IP.
As for their distribution model... this is the future of television, whether we like it or not. Whether or not it will be successful remains to be seen, but I think 99% of Trek fans will pay for it, especially if it's good. Plus, just because it's release in first-run on this new streaming service in the US, doesn't mean it will bypass other methods (iTunes season passes, Netflix, etc.).
to my knowledge it is only premiered on this service its going to be show else where and on other services tv stations around the world..
Having said that, someone going thru the motions of fundraising for an entire movie, should have the foresight to grasp that not obtaining 'written and express approval', prior to using clearly copyrighted material, is never a wise idea (even when you claim to make no profit off your project -- which is actually irrelevant).
I personally am of the opinion the network could care less if they actually win the case. What I see is a tactic to delay, and possibly kill what they see is maybe a yard stick the networks announced new star trek series may get measured against. A law suit is a fantastic way to stop a competitor that doesn't have deep pockets. I doubt if Axanar Productions can afford what a full on legal defence would cost.
What we have seen out of Axanar Productions is very high quality, well written and acted.
A judge will decide but considering how fast and loose the network has played with in own IP over the years, it wouldn't surprise me if a judge refused the case after the initial hearing baseduapon precedent the network, and Paramount have done in their past actions dealing with fan productions.
There are quite a few "Fan" projects that have appeared over the 15 years. Some really, some even great, but you did have to ignore the less then stellar props and sets with a few of them.
CBS is not holy and pure on this matter, and I find it rather difficult to believe they are an "injured party" ... just the timing says this. The rating numbers for the original Star trek were faked up to convince the network way back when the Trek was a failed show. AC Nielson lied, and I've always found it a rather difficult line to swallow that no one at the network knew that AC Nielson lied about the ratings.
Star trek is popular but not because of the networks handling of the property. Its popular because fans like it... a lot of fans.
Its not Star wars.. star wars is the adventure story in space.. simple story, simple message. Trek has always examined to human condition.
I'll follow the story as it evolves, but CBS isn't suing in the interests of the public., or to protect its control of the IP (though there might be a bit of taking back control of the IP that at a lot of levels they just didn't care about other then if it made money)
It's about "Money", Not Axanar Productions money, but the money CBS hasn't made yet of the next Trek series.
Ignore what you here from CBS spin casting this for media consumption. They're just muscle flexing.
Peters prolly told a CBS exec he was being a jerk during a visit, and someone's ego got butt hurt, and that's the REAL reason for the law suit.
Axanar is still a "not for profit" production. But is paying the help to be considered "profit taking"? And how is this going to effect Non Profits that have paid employee's? This is Civil law, not Criminal law, precedent counts.. It what lawyers refer to as making new law. And the courts are cautious about allowing new precedents to be set that might have far ranging effects.
I'm personally not sure how much of a leg to stand on CBS has, but I personally feel this is a very unwise call on the Networks part.
Especially seeing I'm one of the fans that kicked in money to the Kickstarter. Am I going to get sued by CBS for donating money next? Straitening out Axanar production financial issues just doesn't strike me as something CBS would do. Going out to save the public from "Bad Guys" is rather out of character for them. The timing is interesting coming so soon after CBS announced it will start production on a new Star Trek series.. and to me, highly suspect.
Basicly somethings not Kosher here, and I can't help but feel that the issue isn't with Axanar, or Alex Peter paying him self (assuming that what he did, and not what I suspect he did which was recover some of his initial out of pocket expenses to get the whole thing rolling in the first place. He may have been wrong to do so...But that can be easily corrected with out killing the project.. "Sorry Alex, the Judge said give the money back!"
Khemaraa Iron hand sends
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.