People do things for stupid, emotional reasons. Major corporations (which, certain SCOTUS decisions aside, are not people) don't have any emotions other than greed. If they make any move like this, it's over money - whether it be actual folding money someone made at their expense, or fear over their future ability to make theoretical money from a product.
The legal teams at CBS and Paramount are not going to be filing legal briefs and running their multimillion-dollar engine of attorneys and interns because some executive at, let's be honest, one of their second-tier franchises got his feelings hurt by something someone else said on a podcast.
I agree. But even if we hypothetically said that this DID happen because someone got their feelings hurt, the motivation still doesn't matter. All that actually matters is if Axanar did what they are being accused of. If they did, then they are guilty, and the motivation for the entire thing makes no difference at all.
People do things for stupid, emotional reasons. Major corporations (which, certain SCOTUS decisions aside, are not people) don't have any emotions other than greed. If they make any move like this, it's over money - whether it be actual folding money someone made at their expense, or fear over their future ability to make theoretical money from a product.
The legal teams at CBS and Paramount are not going to be filing legal briefs and running their multimillion-dollar engine of attorneys and interns because some executive at, let's be honest, one of their second-tier franchises got his feelings hurt by something someone else said on a podcast.
This is what I believe is the most likely. Either the Axanar producers have made personal coin from the funding (where the Continues Producers clearly show that every penny goes into production costs, not profit) or, CBS fears how Axanar being distributed, could show up, and detract from their plan to run a subscription service. As I observed a few pages back, people don't need to buy music now, they can just stream it for free online. If that then applies to the film industry, that will blow the whole three part system out of the water, by eliminating, or certainly greatly reducing, their ability to raise money via contemporary distribution chanels...
And I agree... If JJ even cared, he's quite capable of taking to Twitter and giving them some in return. Assuming he even cares. He probably just laughed while rolling around on his pile of money...
'Could', being the operative word, because this is all just pure conjecture and speculation on your part, based on (a presumption, I admit) that you found the comments against JJ as objectionable... Until the reasons for the suit are made public, it is all just speculative theory-crafting.
LOL... the reason for the lawsuit has been made clear: copyright infringement.
The only question fans have is "why now?", and that is where theory-crafting is coming in. Make no mistake, however... just because Axanar Productions had a list of guidelines not to draw the attention of CBS, does NOT mean that they had a license agreement to legally use the property. This is why Cryptic is in no danger of having STO shut down overnight. If Team Axanar DID have a license, then that may change the whole discussion... but, they didn't. They knew they were unofficial, and no amount of hand-waving or fan campaigns will make up for that.
People also forget that Axanar's "relationship" with CBS began during a time when there was no Trek on TV. Now, they are in the process of developing their own product... the status quo has changed, so it should be no surprise that a crackdown is happening (even if it appears to be a selective crackdown, at this moment).
People do things for stupid, emotional reasons. Major corporations (which, certain SCOTUS decisions aside, are not people) don't have any emotions other than greed. If they make any move like this, it's over money - whether it be actual folding money someone made at their expense, or fear over their future ability to make theoretical money from a product.
The legal teams at CBS and Paramount are not going to be filing legal briefs and running their multimillion-dollar engine of attorneys and interns because some executive at, let's be honest, one of their second-tier franchises got his feelings hurt by something someone else said on a podcast.
And, that is even to say that JJ Abrams was even aware of Alec Peters' and Rob Burnett's comments... I'm sure Abrams could give two craps about them. Rob Burnett's IMDb page is comprised of special feature documentaries found on Trek DVDs, and a Skin-e-max late night show (LOL, true story!). He's a nobody to Abrams.
EDIT: Oh, yeah, Burnett also worked on the indie film Free Enterprise.
'Could', being the operative word, because this is all just pure conjecture and speculation on your part, based on (a presumption, I admit) that you found the comments against JJ as objectionable... Until the reasons for the suit are made public, it is all just speculative theory-crafting.
LOL... the reason for the lawsuit has been made clear: copyright infringement.
The only question fans have is "why now?", and that is where theory-crafting is coming in. Make no mistake, however... just because Axanar Productions had a list of guidelines not to draw the attention of CBS, does NOT mean that they had a license agreement to legally use the property. This is why Cryptic is in no danger of having STO shut down overnight. If Team Axanar DID have a license, then that may change the whole discussion... but, they didn't. They knew they were unofficial, and no amount of hand-waving or fan campaigns will make up for that.
People also forget that Axanar's "relationship" with CBS began during a time when there was no Trek on TV. Now, they are in the process of developing their own product... the status quo has changed, so it should be no surprise that a crackdown is happening (even if it appears to be a selective crackdown, at this moment).
On paper... As you note, the 'why now' is the true question, and that, is all I care about... The actual reason why someone at CBS/Paramount put pen to paper to get them served...
'Could', being the operative word, because this is all just pure conjecture and speculation on your part, based on (a presumption, I admit) that you found the comments against JJ as objectionable... Until the reasons for the suit are made public, it is all just speculative theory-crafting.
LOL... the reason for the lawsuit has been made clear: copyright infringement.
The only question fans have is "why now?", and that is where theory-crafting is coming in. Make no mistake, however... just because Axanar Productions had a list of guidelines not to draw the attention of CBS, does NOT mean that they had a license agreement to legally use the property. This is why Cryptic is in no danger of having STO shut down overnight. If Team Axanar DID have a license, then that may change the whole discussion... but, they didn't. They knew they were unofficial, and no amount of hand-waving or fan campaigns will make up for that.
People also forget that Axanar's "relationship" with CBS began during a time when there was no Trek on TV. Now, they are in the process of developing their own product... the status quo has changed, so it should be no surprise that a crackdown is happening (even if it appears to be a selective crackdown, at this moment).
On paper... As you note, the 'why now' is the true question, and that, is all I care about... The actual reason why someone at CBS/Paramount put pen to paper to get them served...
And, that's fine... but that is a fan issue/viewpoint, really. You may never get that answer.
And, I'd be more concerned about whether or not the suit will hold up in court... if it does, then no amount of fan campaigns will change the law.
IF it goes to court. I have to wonder if this "big stick" approach is actually aimed to shut Axanar down completely or if it's intended to force them into submission.
As for why Paramount and not just CBS... apparently Axanar borrowed ideas from Nu-Trek.
Also, I have to wonder if this public step is because private negotiations broke down.
This lawsuit has nothing to do with negotiations breaking down or CBS fearing for the integrity of their IP. Instead, theres some soulless suit at their desk that looked at spreadsheet #23434545 and realized "hey, we can destroy this and make an extra $.05 for the quarter."
To hell with CBS.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again."
-Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
This is pretty much what I remembered when I watched Prelude, and although I'm normally of the opinion that 'good enough never is', if Axanar was only going to be released onto DVD's which the majority are going to view on home systems, then that level of quality would be 'good enough', and probably wouldn't look 'too bad' on a big screen if they were to have a showing at a cinema or convention. Renegades, on the other hand, looked 'home-made', hence why thought it an unfair comparison...
Axanar looked like something professionally produced and released on blu-ray (I watched it on my regular TV from a USB device). The prelude montage has a very nice pacing, editing and it looks and sounds very nice. I have no idea how to spot "low budget" but the CGI was on the late Trek show's level in my opinion. Renegades' costumes and scenery looked much more amateurish but this could be due to Renegades just showing more. Prelude really only has actors in one shot in front of one green screen and the rest are short, rendered CGI clips. No idea how it looks in motion, if you look at the Vulcan scene it still looks good enough but you can spot the artificial background much easier.
The main problem Renegades has, aside from the writing, is terrible, terrible editing. That really makes it look like a fan production in the worst sense of the term and it is baffling that they allowed it to release in this state, claiming at least a few professionals worked on it.
I agree... Axanar's CGI was of that level (a professional level, and as noted, better than early professional-level work like Babylon 5) so calling it 'low budget', to be honest, I thought was a bit snobby on oldravenman's part, rather than a legitimate critique, because the CGI is good, and of an acceptably professional level (which can't be said for really anything on Renegade's production...) I completely agree with you, editing is one of the most crucial parts of film-making. A good editor can cut laborious scenes together to be fast and snappy, but when the actors (who I actually put the least blame on) are wearing costumes which look no better than a mid-level cosplayer (some of the top-tier cosplayer's work, is absolutely On Point) reciting tedious dialogue (the writer's fault) then that's not so easy for an editor to hide, and quite rightly earns having those points noted. That they (the Renegades cast and crew) did their best, I would never deny, and I don't mean to TRIBBLE on someone's best work, but when it is not of professional quality, it doesn't need sympathy pity to bolster it, and shouldn't be used as a level of judgement for work which, IMHO, is of professional quality, such as Axanar, or the irritatingly-delayed Space Command.
Call me a snob all you want, but I stand by my critique. It's one that comes from somebody with the eyes of a jaded movie goer who has spent plenty of money on, or watched, enough low budget stuff in the past, to make that assessment. It is what it is. No matter how pretty it is compared to other fan works or to Babylon 5 (a show with a GREAT storyline, but hurt by stilted, wooden acting/cheese dialogue, and SFX CGI that looked cheap-ish even by the standards of the mid-1990s).
Is Axanar decent? Yes. Can you see professionalism and dedication behind it? Sure can. Is it better than the fandom garbage posted on Youtube, like "Continues" and "Renegades"? Most definitely. I would say that the SFX and production values are OUTSTANDING for an indie project working on a budget. But I have to judge it's production values based on what is on television and the big screen today. And by those standards, it's a decent production (light years ahead of the TRIBBLE seen on those ScyFy "original movies", for example) and would be great concept material to try to sell studio execs on a new show. In the end though, it's still "direct to video" quality. Nothing wrong with that. Plenty of good stuff is D2V. But people shouldn't hype it up into something that it isn't. That's my view, anyway.
People do things for stupid, emotional reasons. Major corporations (which, certain SCOTUS decisions aside, are not people) don't have any emotions other than greed. If they make any move like this, it's over money - whether it be actual folding money someone made at their expense, or fear over their future ability to make theoretical money from a product.
The legal teams at CBS and Paramount are not going to be filing legal briefs and running their multimillion-dollar engine of attorneys and interns because some executive at, let's be honest, one of their second-tier franchises got his feelings hurt by something someone else said on a podcast.
Exactly. Action is being taken because somebody at Axanar screwed the pooch. Not because of bile heaped upon J.J. Abrams on some fan podcast. Nothing more, nothing less. People are reading too much into all of this, or looking for another excuse to blame Abrams for "ruining Star Trek".
I'm guessing either someone at Axanar is making some money from this, and creating a "professional" fan film is treading on thin ice as it is.
The other theory is that Paramount and CBS are seeing how crowdfunded projects are shaking up the Hollywood establishment, and they feel threatened that this might open the floodgates to more of these types of projects.
People are doing for free what they do for money, and that is what I think it comes down to. They want to discourage people from creating their own professional fan films, because it makes them look greedy when they do that for a living.
I think the idea is they don't care about your fan-made stuff... but you can't make it high quality and comparable to big budget films. That threatens the status quo of Hollywood.
See also: Beasts of No Nation being banned from big movie theatre chains because they simultaneously released it on Netflix and thus broke the establishment's 90-day rule.
Technology, specifically the internet, is threatening business as usual. What this lawsuit represents is just another panic reaction to inevitable change in the industry. In this case, the threat of crowdfunding instead of traditional investors.
Edit: Oh, and the Abrams Derangement Syndrome in this thread makes me laugh. Keep it up.
'Could', being the operative word, because this is all just pure conjecture and speculation on your part, based on (a presumption, I admit) that you found the comments against JJ as objectionable... Until the reasons for the suit are made public, it is all just speculative theory-crafting.
LOL... the reason for the lawsuit has been made clear: copyright infringement.
The only question fans have is "why now?", and that is where theory-crafting is coming in. Make no mistake, however... just because Axanar Productions had a list of guidelines not to draw the attention of CBS, does NOT mean that they had a license agreement to legally use the property. This is why Cryptic is in no danger of having STO shut down overnight. If Team Axanar DID have a license, then that may change the whole discussion... but, they didn't. They knew they were unofficial, and no amount of hand-waving or fan campaigns will make up for that.
People also forget that Axanar's "relationship" with CBS began during a time when there was no Trek on TV. Now, they are in the process of developing their own product... the status quo has changed, so it should be no surprise that a crackdown is happening (even if it appears to be a selective crackdown, at this moment).
On paper... As you note, the 'why now' is the true question, and that, is all I care about... The actual reason why someone at CBS/Paramount put pen to paper to get them served...
And, that's fine... but that is a fan issue/viewpoint, really. You may never get that answer.
And, I'd be more concerned about whether or not the suit will hold up in court... if it does, then no amount of fan campaigns will change the law.
Depending up what they're citing as 'infringement', given the precedents of the leeway given to Continues, Renegades and other fan-projects, I think they'll really have to fight for it to hold up. If it's simply a case of the Axanar producers clearly going against provided guidelines, then they'll have them... Simples...
This is pretty much what I remembered when I watched Prelude, and although I'm normally of the opinion that 'good enough never is', if Axanar was only going to be released onto DVD's which the majority are going to view on home systems, then that level of quality would be 'good enough', and probably wouldn't look 'too bad' on a big screen if they were to have a showing at a cinema or convention. Renegades, on the other hand, looked 'home-made', hence why thought it an unfair comparison...
Axanar looked like something professionally produced and released on blu-ray (I watched it on my regular TV from a USB device). The prelude montage has a very nice pacing, editing and it looks and sounds very nice. I have no idea how to spot "low budget" but the CGI was on the late Trek show's level in my opinion. Renegades' costumes and scenery looked much more amateurish but this could be due to Renegades just showing more. Prelude really only has actors in one shot in front of one green screen and the rest are short, rendered CGI clips. No idea how it looks in motion, if you look at the Vulcan scene it still looks good enough but you can spot the artificial background much easier.
The main problem Renegades has, aside from the writing, is terrible, terrible editing. That really makes it look like a fan production in the worst sense of the term and it is baffling that they allowed it to release in this state, claiming at least a few professionals worked on it.
I agree... Axanar's CGI was of that level (a professional level, and as noted, better than early professional-level work like Babylon 5) so calling it 'low budget', to be honest, I thought was a bit snobby on oldravenman's part, rather than a legitimate critique, because the CGI is good, and of an acceptably professional level (which can't be said for really anything on Renegade's production...) I completely agree with you, editing is one of the most crucial parts of film-making. A good editor can cut laborious scenes together to be fast and snappy, but when the actors (who I actually put the least blame on) are wearing costumes which look no better than a mid-level cosplayer (some of the top-tier cosplayer's work, is absolutely On Point) reciting tedious dialogue (the writer's fault) then that's not so easy for an editor to hide, and quite rightly earns having those points noted. That they (the Renegades cast and crew) did their best, I would never deny, and I don't mean to TRIBBLE on someone's best work, but when it is not of professional quality, it doesn't need sympathy pity to bolster it, and shouldn't be used as a level of judgement for work which, IMHO, is of professional quality, such as Axanar, or the irritatingly-delayed Space Command.
Call me a snob all you want, but I stand by my critique. It's one that comes from somebody with the eyes of a jaded movie goer who has spent plenty of money on, or watched, enough low budget stuff in the past, to make that assessment. It is what it is. No matter how pretty it is compared to other fan works or to Babylon 5 (a show with a GREAT storyline, but hurt by stilted, wooden acting/cheese dialogue, and SFX CGI that looked cheap-ish even by the standards of the mid-1990s).
Is Axanar decent? Yes. Can you see professionalism and dedication behind it? Sure can. Is it better than the fandom garbage posted on Youtube, like "Continues" and "Renegades"? Most definitely. I would say that the SFX and production values are OUTSTANDING for an indie project working on a budget. But I have to judge it's production values based on what is on television and the big screen today. And by those standards, it's a decent production (light years ahead of the TRIBBLE seen on those ScyFy "original movies", for example) and would be great concept material to try to sell studio execs on a new show. In the end though, it's still "direct to video" quality. Nothing wrong with that. Plenty of good stuff is D2V. But people shouldn't hype it up into something that it isn't. That's my view, anyway.
People do things for stupid, emotional reasons. Major corporations (which, certain SCOTUS decisions aside, are not people) don't have any emotions other than greed. If they make any move like this, it's over money - whether it be actual folding money someone made at their expense, or fear over their future ability to make theoretical money from a product.
The legal teams at CBS and Paramount are not going to be filing legal briefs and running their multimillion-dollar engine of attorneys and interns because some executive at, let's be honest, one of their second-tier franchises got his feelings hurt by something someone else said on a podcast.
Exactly. Action is being taken because somebody at Axanar screwed the pooch. Not because of bile heaped upon J.J. Abrams on some fan podcast. Nothing more, nothing less. People are reading too much into all of this, or looking for another excuse to blame Abrams for "ruining Star Trek".
I didn't call you a snob, I said that you calling Axanar's production values 'low budget' seemed a bit snobby... I'm sorry if you found that offensive. You're certainly entitled to your critique, and I would agree, that Axanar is way ahead of some of the stuff on Sy-Fy, hence why I thought it was a bit snobby to call it low budget, when that stuff is low budget... Size of the budget isn't necessarily everything though, certainly not a correlation of quality to the final project. As I said, Axanar's effects look considerably better than Babylon 5's (which was a professional release) and on a par with some of the later Trek releases, so I think it deserves to be considered as a professional project (of course, what you and I each gauge our criteria by is entirely subjective, and I accept that)
I'm guessing either someone at Axanar is making some money from this, and creating a "professional" fan film is treading on thin ice as it is.
The other theory is that Paramount and CBS are seeing how crowdfunded projects are shaking up the Hollywood establishment, and they feel threatened that this might open the floodgates to more of these types of projects.
People are doing for free what they do for money, and that is what I think it comes down to. They want to discourage people from creating their own professional fan films, because it makes them look greedy when they do that for a living.
I think the idea is they don't care about your fan-made stuff... but you can't make it high quality and comparable to big budget films. That threatens the status quo of Hollywood.
See also: Beasts of No Nation being banned from big movie theatre chains because they simultaneously released it on Netflix and thus broke the establishment's 90-day rule.
Technology, specifically the internet, is threatening business as usual. What this lawsuit represents is just another panic reaction to inevitable change in the industry. In this case, the threat of crowdfunding instead of traditional investors.
Edit: Oh, and the Abrams Derangement Syndrome in this thread makes me laugh. Keep it up.
I quite enjoyed ST09 - it had a lot of the feel of the TOS crew if they were younger (and I liked the interpretation of Chekov's accent, originally because Koenig just did a bad Russian accent and no one cared, as being a speech impediment). And I probably would have liked Into Dorkness better if it hadn't started out with a blatant sign that the screenwriters just didn't care about real science (then again, they were the same ones who had characters in one of the Transformers flicks teleport from noontime in the US to noontime in Egypt, so...).
"cold fusion" isn't really a "real science" thing. It's not an actual scientific term.
Yes, it is. Just because no one has found a way to accomplish nuclear fusion at a temperature of less than millions of degrees doesn't mean that it's not a concept, any more than you can just stick the phrase "quantum computing" on anything you like just because nobody's been able to build a computer that takes advantage of quantum superimposition yet.
"cold fusion" isn't really a "real science" thing. It's not an actual scientific term.
Yes, it is. Just because no one has found a way to accomplish nuclear fusion at a temperature of less than millions of degrees doesn't mean that it's not a concept, any more than you can just stick the phrase "quantum computing" on anything you like just because nobody's been able to build a computer that takes advantage of quantum superimposition yet.
No I was saying that "real" scientists don't use "cold fusion" as a technical term.
I can't say I have ever heard of a proven, replicable cold fusion reaction. If that ever DID happen, that would be all over the news like CRAZY because of its implications for abundant, clean power.
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Grad students have managed to get standard fusion reactions - hell, high school students have built fusion reactors. The downside is that so far, it takes more energy to sustain the reaction than you get out of it, so it's as yet impractical (although a new design being tested in Germany currently shows promise).
If anyone achieves cold fusion, there will be papers. And Nobel prizes in physics. Look at the fuss when Fleischman and Pons announced their (not really, as it turns out) cold fusion reactor!
(Although on a moment's thought, it occurs to me - that was a while back. Are you even old enough to remember that? )
This is pretty much what I remembered when I watched Prelude, and although I'm normally of the opinion that 'good enough never is', if Axanar was only going to be released onto DVD's which the majority are going to view on home systems, then that level of quality would be 'good enough', and probably wouldn't look 'too bad' on a big screen if they were to have a showing at a cinema or convention. Renegades, on the other hand, looked 'home-made', hence why thought it an unfair comparison...
Axanar looked like something professionally produced and released on blu-ray (I watched it on my regular TV from a USB device). The prelude montage has a very nice pacing, editing and it looks and sounds very nice. I have no idea how to spot "low budget" but the CGI was on the late Trek show's level in my opinion. Renegades' costumes and scenery looked much more amateurish but this could be due to Renegades just showing more. Prelude really only has actors in one shot in front of one green screen and the rest are short, rendered CGI clips. No idea how it looks in motion, if you look at the Vulcan scene it still looks good enough but you can spot the artificial background much easier.
The main problem Renegades has, aside from the writing, is terrible, terrible editing. That really makes it look like a fan production in the worst sense of the term and it is baffling that they allowed it to release in this state, claiming at least a few professionals worked on it.
I agree... Axanar's CGI was of that level (a professional level, and as noted, better than early professional-level work like Babylon 5) so calling it 'low budget', to be honest, I thought was a bit snobby on oldravenman's part, rather than a legitimate critique, because the CGI is good, and of an acceptably professional level (which can't be said for really anything on Renegade's production...) I completely agree with you, editing is one of the most crucial parts of film-making. A good editor can cut laborious scenes together to be fast and snappy, but when the actors (who I actually put the least blame on) are wearing costumes which look no better than a mid-level cosplayer (some of the top-tier cosplayer's work, is absolutely On Point) reciting tedious dialogue (the writer's fault) then that's not so easy for an editor to hide, and quite rightly earns having those points noted. That they (the Renegades cast and crew) did their best, I would never deny, and I don't mean to TRIBBLE on someone's best work, but when it is not of professional quality, it doesn't need sympathy pity to bolster it, and shouldn't be used as a level of judgement for work which, IMHO, is of professional quality, such as Axanar, or the irritatingly-delayed Space Command.
Call me a snob all you want, but I stand by my critique. It's one that comes from somebody with the eyes of a jaded movie goer who has spent plenty of money on, or watched, enough low budget stuff in the past, to make that assessment. It is what it is. No matter how pretty it is compared to other fan works or to Babylon 5 (a show with a GREAT storyline, but hurt by stilted, wooden acting/cheese dialogue, and SFX CGI that looked cheap-ish even by the standards of the mid-1990s).
Is Axanar decent? Yes. Can you see professionalism and dedication behind it? Sure can. Is it better than the fandom garbage posted on Youtube, like "Continues" and "Renegades"? Most definitely. I would say that the SFX and production values are OUTSTANDING for an indie project working on a budget. But I have to judge it's production values based on what is on television and the big screen today. And by those standards, it's a decent production (light years ahead of the TRIBBLE seen on those ScyFy "original movies", for example) and would be great concept material to try to sell studio execs on a new show. In the end though, it's still "direct to video" quality. Nothing wrong with that. Plenty of good stuff is D2V. But people shouldn't hype it up into something that it isn't. That's my view, anyway.
People do things for stupid, emotional reasons. Major corporations (which, certain SCOTUS decisions aside, are not people) don't have any emotions other than greed. If they make any move like this, it's over money - whether it be actual folding money someone made at their expense, or fear over their future ability to make theoretical money from a product.
The legal teams at CBS and Paramount are not going to be filing legal briefs and running their multimillion-dollar engine of attorneys and interns because some executive at, let's be honest, one of their second-tier franchises got his feelings hurt by something someone else said on a podcast.
Exactly. Action is being taken because somebody at Axanar screwed the pooch. Not because of bile heaped upon J.J. Abrams on some fan podcast. Nothing more, nothing less. People are reading too much into all of this, or looking for another excuse to blame Abrams for "ruining Star Trek".
I didn't call you a snob, I said that you calling Axanar's production values 'low budget' seemed a bit snobby... I'm sorry if you found that offensive. You're certainly entitled to your critique, and I would agree, that Axanar is way ahead of some of the stuff on Sy-Fy, hence why I thought it was a bit snobby to call it low budget, when that stuff is low budget... Size of the budget isn't necessarily everything though, certainly not a correlation of quality to the final project. As I said, Axanar's effects look considerably better than Babylon 5's (which was a professional release) and on a par with some of the later Trek releases, so I think it deserves to be considered as a professional project (of course, what you and I each gauge our criteria by is entirely subjective, and I accept that)
No offense taken. No harm, no foul.
People can't always agree. If we did, it would be a dull world. And I do respect your opinion on the matter, even if I don't agree 100%.
Grad students have managed to get standard fusion reactions - hell, high school students have built fusion reactors. The downside is that so far, it takes more energy to sustain the reaction than you get out of it, so it's as yet impractical (although a new design being tested in Germany currently shows promise).
If anyone achieves cold fusion, there will be papers. And Nobel prizes in physics. Look at the fuss when Fleischman and Pons announced their (not really, as it turns out) cold fusion reactor!
(Although on a moment's thought, it occurs to me - that was a while back. Are you even old enough to remember that? )
Dude, now you are making me fell like an old TRIBBLE in need of a trip to Shady Lanes.
I remember the hoopla over "cold fusion". It left me scratching my head, since I equated generating energy through fusion to nuclear power.
On that note, with the progress made to date, we could very well see commercial nuclear fusion powerplants in the next thirty years, if not less. That's my hope anyway.
Grad students have managed to get standard fusion reactions - hell, high school students have built fusion reactors. The downside is that so far, it takes more energy to sustain the reaction than you get out of it, so it's as yet impractical (although a new design being tested in Germany currently shows promise).
If anyone achieves cold fusion, there will be papers. And Nobel prizes in physics. Look at the fuss when Fleischman and Pons announced their (not really, as it turns out) cold fusion reactor!
(Although on a moment's thought, it occurs to me - that was a while back. Are you even old enough to remember that? )
no I was not in high school when that media storm hit... Im not that old.... TRIBBLE... :P
I can't say I have ever heard of a proven, replicable cold fusion reaction. If that ever DID happen, that would be all over the news like CRAZY because of its implications for abundant, clean power.
I havent looked in a few years but no, you wouldn't. Because like all bleeding edge new developments it has 0 practical application atm. The best Id seen last I looked didn't produce enough excess energy to light up an LED. Its a few decades from anythin media worthy
Standard fusion is impractical because the fusion reaction only takes place at temperatures in the millions of degrees. If the plasma comes into contact with the walls of the containment vessel, it cools to below reaction temperature (and does unpleasant things to the containment vessel, but that's still considered a side issue). The magnetic constriction necessary to maintain the reaction eats more power than the reaction can produce. (The Wendelstein 7-X stellarator in Germany might beat the break-even point - the data are not yet in.)
Fusion at cooler temperatures, though, that permit standard containment vessels such as those used in fission reactors? Those would be immensely practical, as they would produce energy with negligible levels of toxic waste and absolutely no gaseous emissions at all. The inventors of such a device would become immensely rich in short order through licensing the technology.
(And yes, again, "cold fusion" is the term physicists and engineers use to describe the process of creating nuclear fusion at temperatures measured in tens or hundreds of degrees, as opposed to the current methods requiring stellar temperatures.)
I'm guessing either someone at Axanar is making some money from this, and creating a "professional" fan film is treading on thin ice as it is.
Yeah, I think that's really thin ice.
If you for example build a set, you need to hire people. Possibly a company even. That company is going to make a profit. But if that company only exists because of your project, is the line between your project and that company notable enough?
I could imagine that stuff like that would be a concern.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I'm guessing either someone at Axanar is making some money from this, and creating a "professional" fan film is treading on thin ice as it is.
Yeah, I think that's really thin ice.
If you for example build a set, you need to hire people. Possibly a company even. That company is going to make a profit. But if that company only exists because of your project, is the line between your project and that company notable enough?
I could imagine that stuff like that would be a concern.
Not so, my good sir, there is photographic evidence of the cast of Star Trek Continues building the set themself... They had to get the material for the bedding made for them (I know this, because I asked the costume designer and she told me so) Yes, that takes funds, and they use crowdfunding as a source of funds, but they are not making profit, because the money is going into production costs, with no surplus to equal profit... Star Trek Continues, is the embodiment of everything which went into the original series, both in scope of story material, but in terms of behind the scenes work as well, and it is being helmed by a guy who never once brags about how awesome he is, or how his project blows JJTrek out of the water because it actually captures and recreates the magic of Star Trek, not just making a generic sci-fi movie, slapping on costume and character names where they seem to fit and calling it Star Trek... This is why CBS went to bat for them against das YouTube when YouTube pulled an episode because of copyright violation. CBS got it re-hosted... CBS clearly don't have an issue with folks who follow the guidelines they set down. If the producers of Axanar broke those guidelines, I can see why they would be facing action...
Unless I have all information I can't really support the petition. I love the premise of Axanar and would like to see it prevail, maybe even get licensed. But if the Axanar team indeed did ciolate the guidelines there's no reason so voice blind support. As far as I know there wasn't an upfront, detailed statement by the Axanar crew aside from "Yeah, we are prerpared", wasn't there?
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Unless I have all information I can't really support the petition. I love the premise of Axanar and would like to see it prevail, maybe even get licensed. But if the Axanar team indeed did ciolate the guidelines there's no reason so voice blind support. As far as I know there wasn't an upfront, detailed statement by the Axanar crew aside from "Yeah, we are prerpared", wasn't there?
^^^ This... I can't support either side without knowing all the details...
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I agree. But even if we hypothetically said that this DID happen because someone got their feelings hurt, the motivation still doesn't matter. All that actually matters is if Axanar did what they are being accused of. If they did, then they are guilty, and the motivation for the entire thing makes no difference at all.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
And I agree... If JJ even cared, he's quite capable of taking to Twitter and giving them some in return. Assuming he even cares. He probably just laughed while rolling around on his pile of money...
LOL... the reason for the lawsuit has been made clear: copyright infringement.
The only question fans have is "why now?", and that is where theory-crafting is coming in. Make no mistake, however... just because Axanar Productions had a list of guidelines not to draw the attention of CBS, does NOT mean that they had a license agreement to legally use the property. This is why Cryptic is in no danger of having STO shut down overnight. If Team Axanar DID have a license, then that may change the whole discussion... but, they didn't. They knew they were unofficial, and no amount of hand-waving or fan campaigns will make up for that.
People also forget that Axanar's "relationship" with CBS began during a time when there was no Trek on TV. Now, they are in the process of developing their own product... the status quo has changed, so it should be no surprise that a crackdown is happening (even if it appears to be a selective crackdown, at this moment).
And, that is even to say that JJ Abrams was even aware of Alec Peters' and Rob Burnett's comments... I'm sure Abrams could give two craps about them. Rob Burnett's IMDb page is comprised of special feature documentaries found on Trek DVDs, and a Skin-e-max late night show (LOL, true story!). He's a nobody to Abrams.
EDIT: Oh, yeah, Burnett also worked on the indie film Free Enterprise.
And, that's fine... but that is a fan issue/viewpoint, really. You may never get that answer.
And, I'd be more concerned about whether or not the suit will hold up in court... if it does, then no amount of fan campaigns will change the law.
As for why Paramount and not just CBS... apparently Axanar borrowed ideas from Nu-Trek.
My character Tsin'xing
This lawsuit has nothing to do with negotiations breaking down or CBS fearing for the integrity of their IP. Instead, theres some soulless suit at their desk that looked at spreadsheet #23434545 and realized "hey, we can destroy this and make an extra $.05 for the quarter."
To hell with CBS.
-Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
Call me a snob all you want, but I stand by my critique. It's one that comes from somebody with the eyes of a jaded movie goer who has spent plenty of money on, or watched, enough low budget stuff in the past, to make that assessment. It is what it is. No matter how pretty it is compared to other fan works or to Babylon 5 (a show with a GREAT storyline, but hurt by stilted, wooden acting/cheese dialogue, and SFX CGI that looked cheap-ish even by the standards of the mid-1990s).
Is Axanar decent? Yes. Can you see professionalism and dedication behind it? Sure can. Is it better than the fandom garbage posted on Youtube, like "Continues" and "Renegades"? Most definitely. I would say that the SFX and production values are OUTSTANDING for an indie project working on a budget. But I have to judge it's production values based on what is on television and the big screen today. And by those standards, it's a decent production (light years ahead of the TRIBBLE seen on those ScyFy "original movies", for example) and would be great concept material to try to sell studio execs on a new show. In the end though, it's still "direct to video" quality. Nothing wrong with that. Plenty of good stuff is D2V. But people shouldn't hype it up into something that it isn't. That's my view, anyway.
Exactly. Action is being taken because somebody at Axanar screwed the pooch. Not because of bile heaped upon J.J. Abrams on some fan podcast. Nothing more, nothing less. People are reading too much into all of this, or looking for another excuse to blame Abrams for "ruining Star Trek".
The other theory is that Paramount and CBS are seeing how crowdfunded projects are shaking up the Hollywood establishment, and they feel threatened that this might open the floodgates to more of these types of projects.
People are doing for free what they do for money, and that is what I think it comes down to. They want to discourage people from creating their own professional fan films, because it makes them look greedy when they do that for a living.
I think the idea is they don't care about your fan-made stuff... but you can't make it high quality and comparable to big budget films. That threatens the status quo of Hollywood.
See also: Beasts of No Nation being banned from big movie theatre chains because they simultaneously released it on Netflix and thus broke the establishment's 90-day rule.
Technology, specifically the internet, is threatening business as usual. What this lawsuit represents is just another panic reaction to inevitable change in the industry. In this case, the threat of crowdfunding instead of traditional investors.
Edit: Oh, and the Abrams Derangement Syndrome in this thread makes me laugh. Keep it up.
I didn't call you a snob, I said that you calling Axanar's production values 'low budget' seemed a bit snobby... I'm sorry if you found that offensive. You're certainly entitled to your critique, and I would agree, that Axanar is way ahead of some of the stuff on Sy-Fy, hence why I thought it was a bit snobby to call it low budget, when that stuff is low budget... Size of the budget isn't necessarily everything though, certainly not a correlation of quality to the final project. As I said, Axanar's effects look considerably better than Babylon 5's (which was a professional release) and on a par with some of the later Trek releases, so I think it deserves to be considered as a professional project (of course, what you and I each gauge our criteria by is entirely subjective, and I accept that)
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
also.. it needs to be done.... Thank god for cold fusion
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If anyone achieves cold fusion, there will be papers. And Nobel prizes in physics. Look at the fuss when Fleischman and Pons announced their (not really, as it turns out) cold fusion reactor!
(Although on a moment's thought, it occurs to me - that was a while back. Are you even old enough to remember that?
No offense taken. No harm, no foul.
People can't always agree. If we did, it would be a dull world. And I do respect your opinion on the matter, even if I don't agree 100%.
Dude, now you are making me fell like an old TRIBBLE in need of a trip to Shady Lanes.
I remember the hoopla over "cold fusion". It left me scratching my head, since I equated generating energy through fusion to nuclear power.
On that note, with the progress made to date, we could very well see commercial nuclear fusion powerplants in the next thirty years, if not less. That's my hope anyway.
I havent looked in a few years but no, you wouldn't. Because like all bleeding edge new developments it has 0 practical application atm. The best Id seen last I looked didn't produce enough excess energy to light up an LED. Its a few decades from anythin media worthy
Fusion at cooler temperatures, though, that permit standard containment vessels such as those used in fission reactors? Those would be immensely practical, as they would produce energy with negligible levels of toxic waste and absolutely no gaseous emissions at all. The inventors of such a device would become immensely rich in short order through licensing the technology.
(And yes, again, "cold fusion" is the term physicists and engineers use to describe the process of creating nuclear fusion at temperatures measured in tens or hundreds of degrees, as opposed to the current methods requiring stellar temperatures.)
If you for example build a set, you need to hire people. Possibly a company even. That company is going to make a profit. But if that company only exists because of your project, is the line between your project and that company notable enough?
I could imagine that stuff like that would be a concern.
https://change.org/p/cbs-support-axanar
Unless I have all information I can't really support the petition. I love the premise of Axanar and would like to see it prevail, maybe even get licensed. But if the Axanar team indeed did ciolate the guidelines there's no reason so voice blind support. As far as I know there wasn't an upfront, detailed statement by the Axanar crew aside from "Yeah, we are prerpared", wasn't there?
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