Unless I have all information I can't really support the petition. I love the premise of Axanar and would like to see it prevail, maybe even get licensed. But if the Axanar team indeed did ciolate the guidelines there's no reason so voice blind support. As far as I know there wasn't an upfront, detailed statement by the Axanar crew aside from "Yeah, we are prerpared", wasn't there?
^^^ This... I can't support either side without knowing all the details...
Same. If someone broke the law, it doesn't matter how many people sign a petition. But being an internet crusader does make some people feel better, so I guess they need things like this.
Somebody on Google Plus commented on that to the effect of, the solution is not to support Axanar itself, but rather to support adjustment of US copyright law so that IP holders can afford to be more selective, less all-or-nothing, in which claims they enforce. The theory that Axanar crossed some legal line that forced CBS to bring in the lawyers reminds me of the kerfuffle when Games Workshop pulled the plug on a Warhammer 40,000 fan film they had previously greenlit, Damnatus, because not doing so would have cost them their German copyright to the entire property.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
As stated before, I am not averse to reduction in the length of time you may hold a copyright. I would like that kind of law.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
at this point Im hoping that the petition and fan backlash is simply loud enough to force a CBS/Paramount P.R. man to get off his TRIBBLE and give details
at this point Im hoping that the petition and fan backlash is simply loud enough to force a CBS/Paramount P.R. man to get off his TRIBBLE and give details
To be fair, CBS/Paramount gave details. You can read the 'whatever-the-type-of-document-is-called-in-English' (can't be bothered to look that up right now) the lawsuit is based on. It's the Axanar people who haven't said a single word aside from "lol, we got this" - this is the main thing which I find problematic at this point.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
The fact Alec Peters just shrugged it off and said they're still going to start filming is more than arrogant, some other fan films have stopped all together awaiting the play out of this yet he thinks he's above it all.
If I had donated towards this I would demand answers tbh. . . as where do you think your money is going to go. . .
I wonder if the backers will be able to get compensation, if it would be considered fraud if it turns out Axanar did something illegal. The only Kickstarter I've ever backed was Reading Rainbow, which I knew to be on solid ground, so that's not something I have an answer to.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
at this point Im hoping that the petition and fan backlash is simply loud enough to force a CBS/Paramount P.R. man to get off his TRIBBLE and give details
To be fair, CBS/Paramount gave details. You can read the 'whatever-the-type-of-document-is-called-in-English' (can't be bothered to look that up right now) the lawsuit is based on. It's the Axanar people who haven't said a single word aside from "lol, we got this" - this is the main thing which I find problematic at this point.
they really haven't given the 'whys' tho. they gave the legal reason they went after axanar but that answered nothin
they really haven't given the 'whys' tho. they gave the legal reason they went after axanar but that answered nothin
That's true. I mean, CBS certainly aren't victims or the good guys or soemthing, but at least the legal document shows the basis on which they act. Alec Peters on the other claw said exactly nothing regarding the issue and that's even less than CBS did.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
To be clear, the info CBS has "provided" is only the bare minimum that has to be given to the party being sued. Basically, "we're suing you, and this is why". CBS has not made any kind of public comment to elaborate, and we only have the info we have because Axanar decided to make it public(I think?). That said, here is what I want to hear from Axanar at this point:
We disagree with CBS' claim because....?
Saying they are a 'fan film' and a 'love letter to the fans' is not a defense. What legal argument are they going to make to disprove CBS claim? Have they actually "made" any money from this project?
Axanar crossed the line in a couple of ways that makes CBS/Paramount's actions completely understandable and justified (and in full disclosure realize that I did pledge to Axanar myself, and would love to see the project finished and released but Mr. Alec Peters really screwed the pooch in a major way):
- He's been outright stating for months that Axanar was going to be at a level of 'professionalism' beyond other 'fan films'; and going so far to characterize Axanar as 'an independent Star Trek film...'
- He paid himself a salary of 38K a year (something no other fan film producer has done); and further outright stated that the funds raised to create Axanar productions and secure (rent) studio space would ALSO be used for his 'for profit venture' 'Ares Studios' which would be used to produce other film projects; and he also mentioned he secured the rights to a book series penned by David Gerrold - who also wrote the TOS episode "The Trouble With Tribbles"( and who BTW is a consultant on Axanar too.)
^^^
These two things (especially the 'for profit' studio) is most likely why CBS/Paramount legal decided to 'pull the trigger' with regard to Axanar. IMO they are also COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED. If Mr. Peters was really interested in actually producing the film and letting the results speak for themselves - he should have kept his ego in check and also used the crowdsourced funds ONLY on Axanar and not also decide "Hey, while I have the studio space, why not rent it out and use it to make a profit?" Yes, sounds good on one level, but using funds gained because you said "Hey, I'm planning to make the best/most professional fan film I can" but, to ALSO make a profit in the long run is effectively using the Star Trek IP to start a for profit business - and I don't think there's any way in hell Mr. Peters would have gotten the same level of funding or donated professional support if he said "Hey, I want to open my own studio to make low budget science fiction based films for profit" on KS or indegogo. <--- That's where he really crossed a line and incurred CBS/Paramount legal's wrath; and IMO - rightly so.
Post edited by crypticarmsman on
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
didn't realise he was paying himself AND doing other ventures with donations. .
I do know he was bankrupt about a year or so ago and bragging about owing mgm money. .
So the fact he was spending other people's money (( IF TRUE )) doesn't shock me at all. .
This. If true this is a damned good reason to lay him out legally. Now if CBS/Paramount would just get off their asses and explain the reasons for fans(and other fan films) that'd be great.
Fan speculation and unclear reasonings hurt their images imo, and neither CBS nor Paramount have great images with Trek fans
IF CBS/Paramount have got to the point of calling in the lawyers, then the lawyers will be handling all the talking, and the PR people will be under strict orders to keep their mouths shut. Which is what you do, when you get yourself a lawyer.
The explanations, presumably, will be given in court, unless a settlement of some kind is reached beforehand. The lawyers won't want their clients muddying the waters or giving information to their opponents by "explaining" anything to random people on the Internet who aren't connected with the case.
Here's a link to the Axanar (and no it looks like they DIDN'T bother to use an actual accountant either) annual 'financial report' on where the Crowdfunded money went - interesting reading and again, shows that Mr. Peters WAS paying himself (and others) salaries as he puts it, 'like a real studio' ; except for the fact a REAL studio would have actually secured legal rights to do the project (meaning he couldn't do it for 'less than paramount/CBS', eh?):
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
IF CBS/Paramount have got to the point of calling in the lawyers, then the lawyers will be handling all the talking, and the PR people will be under strict orders to keep their mouths shut. Which is what you do, when you get yourself a lawyer.
The explanations, presumably, will be given in court, unless a settlement of some kind is reached beforehand. The lawyers won't want their clients muddying the waters or giving information to their opponents by "explaining" anything to random people on the Internet who aren't connected with the case.
And CBS/Paramount have stuck to this yet the bloke at Axanar had stated much in the way of bile etc etc most i find very ego filled...
Here's a link to the Axanar (and no it looks like they DIDN'T bother to use an actual accountant either) annual 'financial report' on where the Crowdfunded money went - interesting reading and again, shows that Mr. Peters WAS paying himself (and others) salaries as he puts it, 'like a real studio' ; except for the fact a REAL studio would have actually secured legal rights to do the project (meaning he couldn't do it for 'less than paramount/CBS', eh?):
Ouch. Never mind CBS, at this rate they'll be lucky if they get off without a class-action lawsuit from their backers.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Here's a link to the Axanar (and no it looks like they DIDN'T bother to use an actual accountant either) annual 'financial report' on where the Crowdfunded money went - interesting reading and again, shows that Mr. Peters WAS paying himself (and others) salaries as he puts it, 'like a real studio' ; except for the fact a REAL studio would have actually secured legal rights to do the project (meaning he couldn't do it for 'less than paramount/CBS', eh?):
Hopefully this will serve as a lesson to the people who immediately jumped on CBS/Paramount as the bad guys. That said, I doubt it. People who immediately jump to conclusions don't usually learn lessons.
Also, here is a quote from the annual report where they seem to be trying to "justify" their salaries:
Unlike other fan films which use all volunteers, or no full time personnel, Axanar has both Alec Peters and Diana Kingsbury working full time, and since the beginning of 2015, Dean Newberry, our construction coordinator as well. There is just too much work to do Axanar part time. And that is why the quality of Axanar is so good. The salaries Axanar is paying are incredibly low. Everyone is working for a fraction of what they could get anywhere else because we love this project.
So, their defense seems to be based on 2 main points:
1) "we aren't paying ourselves that much"
2) "we really really love this project!"
Um...so what? If the rules say you can't make money then that means you can't make money. Not paying yourself as much as you could make elsewhere or loving the project doesn't change the fact that you are still breaking the rules.
my god. . . . After reading that I am angry this jerk is going to tarnish the fans badly. . I hope they take him to the cleaners and back.
silly silly little man does he think no one would find out or even notice that some of these "so called expenses" are extremely questionable at best and fraud at worst.
I think the sticking point here is where he's using some of the Kickstarter money to fund his new independent studio, while using the Star Trek brand to raise said money. That's a pretty clear violation of both copyright and trademark law right there, and were I involved, I'd be advising Mr. Peters to shut his trap and settle out of court.
Oh wow, I can see now where the problem is. And he really thought that would be ok? It's clear violation based on what you guys has shown. I had no idea since I don't follow it so close. It has to be said, it's a pitty something with that potential is going to fall due to greediness.
I rarely post, but just have to jump in now, to share my disappointment. I feel like we fans have been abused by this wannabe, and very much hope that he takes steps to start issuing refunds to the donors immediately. Though I realize that isn't very likely, since all the funds he has left will likely be sitting in a CBS account very soon. That joker really screwed himself and the fans who love ST.
I read that financial statement/admission of guilt, above and was reminded of an exchange I had some time ago.
Years ago I worked in tax prep & bookkeeping. I had a client who was in trouble for failing to file returns for several years on a few 'questionable' businesses. Very little I could do without accurate books which he seemed to invent anytime I would go over his numbers. After a couple of years working on his case, I thought I had it all done and limited his liability as much as possible - the only thing that remained was approval from the lawyer. To make a long story longer, the lawyer reviewed his receipts and financial statements. The lawyer's said "This isn't accounting, it's an admission of guilt", then he told me I should drop the client and refer him somewhere else. That's just what I did.
Here's a link to the Axanar (and no it looks like they DIDN'T bother to use an actual accountant either) annual 'financial report' on where the Crowdfunded money went - interesting reading and again, shows that Mr. Peters WAS paying himself (and others) salaries as he puts it, 'like a real studio' ; except for the fact a REAL studio would have actually secured legal rights to do the project (meaning he couldn't do it for 'less than paramount/CBS', eh?):
Hopefully this will serve as a lesson to the people who immediately jumped on CBS/Paramount as the bad guys. That said, I doubt it. People who immediately jump to conclusions don't usually learn lessons.
Also, here is a quote from the annual report where they seem to be trying to "justify" their salaries:
Unlike other fan films which use all volunteers, or no full time personnel, Axanar has both Alec Peters and Diana Kingsbury working full time, and since the beginning of 2015, Dean Newberry, our construction coordinator as well. There is just too much work to do Axanar part time. And that is why the quality of Axanar is so good. The salaries Axanar is paying are incredibly low. Everyone is working for a fraction of what they could get anywhere else because we love this project.
So, their defense seems to be based on 2 main points:
1) "we aren't paying ourselves that much"
2) "we really really love this project!"
Um...so what? If the rules say you can't make money then that means you can't make money. Not paying yourself as much as you could make elsewhere or loving the project doesn't change the fact that you are still breaking the rules.
Yeah, basically the showrunners' egos outran their common sense.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Here's a link to the Axanar (and no it looks like they DIDN'T bother to use an actual accountant either) annual 'financial report' on where the Crowdfunded money went - interesting reading and again, shows that Mr. Peters WAS paying himself (and others) salaries as he puts it, 'like a real studio' ; except for the fact a REAL studio would have actually secured legal rights to do the project (meaning he couldn't do it for 'less than paramount/CBS', eh?):
And no one is plowing Axanar funds into a for-profit movie studio. That is TRIBBLE. We have a building we have rented to build sets in and make Axanar, and when we are done with Axanar, I will still be on the hook for the rent and storage of the sets. Would we like to be movie producers? Sure, but we have no plans for that right now.
That is absolutely awesome work! You guys are doing a great job at building out the studio! I guess this means that Ares will be able to sustain other projects that will help generate income for the Studio and eventually make it self sustaining?
To which Mr. Peters directly replies:
Alec Peters says:
December 26, 2015 at 9:02 pm
Yes, exactly.
^^^
If this doesn't show the head of Axanar (Mr. Alec Peters) bold faced lying, I don't know what does. I really wasn't following Axanar all that closely; but wow, does it appear shady as hell - and it's Mr. Peters himself I guess hoping we 'fans' won't bother to fact check comments and take everything at face value. It seems a clear case of:
"Don't listen to what I said...listen to what I'm saying now!"
Seriously, it's just sad; and as someone who did back the Axanar project knowing the full risks even IF the project leader didn't turn out to be a delusional liar; in the end, I have no one to blame for my decision to back Axanar but myself.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Maybe he is lying, maybe he is just so busy he can't keep his facts straight. Either way, the project clearly broke the rules, so he shouldn't be complaining on social media acting like a victim. If it truly was an "accident", he should be saying that and apologizing, but not pretending they didn't do anything wrong.
If there's outright fraud proven, what happens to the Kickstarter contributors? Are they entitled to any restitution or at least being able to join a class action lawsuit? I understand that Kickstarter itself is possibly indemnified, but I would hope that a project runner is not...
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I can see Alec Peters' rationale: Axanar needs him full-time, meaning he can't work on anything else, thus making restitution to free up his time a production cost...
Explaining that in court and having it be accepted, is going to be a different matter...
Captain Garth wound up in the nut-house, and I suspect his latest portrayer, is going to wind up in the poor-house (if not worse... If a judge orders him to pay damages and refund backers, and he doesn't have the dollar to do it, he could be looking at 'other judicial punishments'...)
I never backed Axanar, but it can't be said that I don't have a horse in the race, as I do back Star Trek Continues, and if what Alec Peters has done impacts on that production, I will be pissed >_<
If there's outright fraud proven, what happens to the Kickstarter contributors? Are they entitled to any restitution or at least being able to join a class action lawsuit? I understand that Kickstarter itself is possibly indemnified, but I would hope that a project runner is not...
I'm sure 'we' could, but that said, for my situation, I'm sure that the filing and legal fees to pursue one would be more (per person) then the $75 I'm out (pledged for the Blu-Ray copy); and I'm pretty sure that all we'd have is a judgement against; and we'd have to get in line behind all the other creditors when Axanar/Ares Productions and Mr. Peters declare bankruptcy. And even if a law firm took on the case 'for a percentage/no fee if we don't prevail' - in the end; of my $75, I MIGHT get back $5 - $10 at best.
So, the only reason to pursue such a case would be strictly for the punitive/moral value; and for me (like I've said above) - I knew the risks in pledging, decided they were worth it to me at that time; and realized I might be throwing the cash down the drain. So, again, the only person I can ultimately blame is myself (and at the salary I make $75 isn't worth getting aggravated over.) I'd still join such a case IF it didn't require anything more out of pocket on my end, and take whatever settlement was ultimately negotiated; but I don't really see that happening.
The above said, depending on how the Ventura County DA (I believe Axanar is incorporated there); or the California Attorney General or even the U.S. Attorney General feel about the situation (assuming the current Paramount/CBS suit goes to trial and they prevail or reach a settlement that doesn't allow Axanar to fulfill its crowdfund 'promises'); Mr. Peters and possibly others could face a number of criminal charges that might lead to jail time if prosecuted and convicted. That's why the various comments by Mr. Peters and others from within Axanar are really puzzling in that I don't think they realize just how far this could go; and this civil suit is the least of their worries.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I can see Alec Peters' rationale: Axanar needs him full-time, meaning he can't work on anything else, thus making restitution to free up his time a production cost...
I wish I could accept that, I really do. But no one is forcing him to do this project. He is *choosing* to devote all of his time to it, and *choosing* not to do whatever normal work he would be doing to make his money. So no, he can't choose to stop working, then pay himself with the funds he raised for his non profit film based on an IP he doesn't even have the rights to use. Not only he is breaking the copyright rules by profiting from this project, he is also breaking the trust of the donors by using their donated funds to fund future projects that have nothing to do with Axanar.
Comments
Same. If someone broke the law, it doesn't matter how many people sign a petition. But being an internet crusader does make some people feel better, so I guess they need things like this.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Somebody on Google Plus commented on that to the effect of, the solution is not to support Axanar itself, but rather to support adjustment of US copyright law so that IP holders can afford to be more selective, less all-or-nothing, in which claims they enforce. The theory that Axanar crossed some legal line that forced CBS to bring in the lawyers reminds me of the kerfuffle when Games Workshop pulled the plug on a Warhammer 40,000 fan film they had previously greenlit, Damnatus, because not doing so would have cost them their German copyright to the entire property.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
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To be fair, CBS/Paramount gave details. You can read the 'whatever-the-type-of-document-is-called-in-English' (can't be bothered to look that up right now) the lawsuit is based on. It's the Axanar people who haven't said a single word aside from "lol, we got this" - this is the main thing which I find problematic at this point.
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If I had donated towards this I would demand answers tbh. . . as where do you think your money is going to go. . .
legal fees and compo for cbs etc. . .
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they really haven't given the 'whys' tho. they gave the legal reason they went after axanar but that answered nothin
That's true. I mean, CBS certainly aren't victims or the good guys or soemthing, but at least the legal document shows the basis on which they act. Alec Peters on the other claw said exactly nothing regarding the issue and that's even less than CBS did.
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We disagree with CBS' claim because....?
Saying they are a 'fan film' and a 'love letter to the fans' is not a defense. What legal argument are they going to make to disprove CBS claim? Have they actually "made" any money from this project?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
- He's been outright stating for months that Axanar was going to be at a level of 'professionalism' beyond other 'fan films'; and going so far to characterize Axanar as 'an independent Star Trek film...'
- He paid himself a salary of 38K a year (something no other fan film producer has done); and further outright stated that the funds raised to create Axanar productions and secure (rent) studio space would ALSO be used for his 'for profit venture' 'Ares Studios' which would be used to produce other film projects; and he also mentioned he secured the rights to a book series penned by David Gerrold - who also wrote the TOS episode "The Trouble With Tribbles"( and who BTW is a consultant on Axanar too.)
^^^
These two things (especially the 'for profit' studio) is most likely why CBS/Paramount legal decided to 'pull the trigger' with regard to Axanar. IMO they are also COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED. If Mr. Peters was really interested in actually producing the film and letting the results speak for themselves - he should have kept his ego in check and also used the crowdsourced funds ONLY on Axanar and not also decide "Hey, while I have the studio space, why not rent it out and use it to make a profit?" Yes, sounds good on one level, but using funds gained because you said "Hey, I'm planning to make the best/most professional fan film I can" but, to ALSO make a profit in the long run is effectively using the Star Trek IP to start a for profit business - and I don't think there's any way in hell Mr. Peters would have gotten the same level of funding or donated professional support if he said "Hey, I want to open my own studio to make low budget science fiction based films for profit" on KS or indegogo. <--- That's where he really crossed a line and incurred CBS/Paramount legal's wrath; and IMO - rightly so.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I do know he was bankrupt about a year or so ago and bragging about owing mgm money. .
So the fact he was spending other people's money (( IF TRUE )) doesn't shock me at all. .
This. If true this is a damned good reason to lay him out legally. Now if CBS/Paramount would just get off their asses and explain the reasons for fans(and other fan films) that'd be great.
Fan speculation and unclear reasonings hurt their images imo, and neither CBS nor Paramount have great images with Trek fans
The explanations, presumably, will be given in court, unless a settlement of some kind is reached beforehand. The lawyers won't want their clients muddying the waters or giving information to their opponents by "explaining" anything to random people on the Internet who aren't connected with the case.
https://drive.google.com/a/kd-law.co.uk/file/d/0BxWHYHfCkIj2dFA3QlZaRFdLeDQ/view?pref=2&pli=1
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
And CBS/Paramount have stuck to this yet the bloke at Axanar had stated much in the way of bile etc etc most i find very ego filled...
Ouch. Never mind CBS, at this rate they'll be lucky if they get off without a class-action lawsuit from their backers.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Hopefully this will serve as a lesson to the people who immediately jumped on CBS/Paramount as the bad guys. That said, I doubt it. People who immediately jump to conclusions don't usually learn lessons.
Also, here is a quote from the annual report where they seem to be trying to "justify" their salaries:
So, their defense seems to be based on 2 main points:
1) "we aren't paying ourselves that much"
2) "we really really love this project!"
Um...so what? If the rules say you can't make money then that means you can't make money. Not paying yourself as much as you could make elsewhere or loving the project doesn't change the fact that you are still breaking the rules.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
silly silly little man does he think no one would find out or even notice that some of these "so called expenses" are extremely questionable at best and fraud at worst.
I read that financial statement/admission of guilt, above and was reminded of an exchange I had some time ago.
Years ago I worked in tax prep & bookkeeping. I had a client who was in trouble for failing to file returns for several years on a few 'questionable' businesses. Very little I could do without accurate books which he seemed to invent anytime I would go over his numbers. After a couple of years working on his case, I thought I had it all done and limited his liability as much as possible - the only thing that remained was approval from the lawyer. To make a long story longer, the lawyer reviewed his receipts and financial statements. The lawyer's said "This isn't accounting, it's an admission of guilt", then he told me I should drop the client and refer him somewhere else. That's just what I did.
Yeah, basically the showrunners' egos outran their common sense.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
My character Tsin'xing
http://skipoliva.com/index.php/2016/01/02/does-axanar-have-a-fair-use-defense/#comment-35
Yet someone found the following from one of Axanar's official 'Captain's Log' comment thread (the first two posts):
http://www.axanarproductions.com/captains-log-dec-21st-2015/
To which Mr. Peters directly replies: ^^^
If this doesn't show the head of Axanar (Mr. Alec Peters) bold faced lying, I don't know what does. I really wasn't following Axanar all that closely; but wow, does it appear shady as hell - and it's Mr. Peters himself I guess hoping we 'fans' won't bother to fact check comments and take everything at face value. It seems a clear case of:
"Don't listen to what I said...listen to what I'm saying now!"
Seriously, it's just sad; and as someone who did back the Axanar project knowing the full risks even IF the project leader didn't turn out to be a delusional liar; in the end, I have no one to blame for my decision to back Axanar but myself.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
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I can see Alec Peters' rationale: Axanar needs him full-time, meaning he can't work on anything else, thus making restitution to free up his time a production cost...
Explaining that in court and having it be accepted, is going to be a different matter...
Captain Garth wound up in the nut-house, and I suspect his latest portrayer, is going to wind up in the poor-house (if not worse... If a judge orders him to pay damages and refund backers, and he doesn't have the dollar to do it, he could be looking at 'other judicial punishments'...)
I never backed Axanar, but it can't be said that I don't have a horse in the race, as I do back Star Trek Continues, and if what Alec Peters has done impacts on that production, I will be pissed >_<
I'm sure 'we' could, but that said, for my situation, I'm sure that the filing and legal fees to pursue one would be more (per person) then the $75 I'm out (pledged for the Blu-Ray copy); and I'm pretty sure that all we'd have is a judgement against; and we'd have to get in line behind all the other creditors when Axanar/Ares Productions and Mr. Peters declare bankruptcy. And even if a law firm took on the case 'for a percentage/no fee if we don't prevail' - in the end; of my $75, I MIGHT get back $5 - $10 at best.
So, the only reason to pursue such a case would be strictly for the punitive/moral value; and for me (like I've said above) - I knew the risks in pledging, decided they were worth it to me at that time; and realized I might be throwing the cash down the drain. So, again, the only person I can ultimately blame is myself (and at the salary I make $75 isn't worth getting aggravated over.) I'd still join such a case IF it didn't require anything more out of pocket on my end, and take whatever settlement was ultimately negotiated; but I don't really see that happening.
The above said, depending on how the Ventura County DA (I believe Axanar is incorporated there); or the California Attorney General or even the U.S. Attorney General feel about the situation (assuming the current Paramount/CBS suit goes to trial and they prevail or reach a settlement that doesn't allow Axanar to fulfill its crowdfund 'promises'); Mr. Peters and possibly others could face a number of criminal charges that might lead to jail time if prosecuted and convicted. That's why the various comments by Mr. Peters and others from within Axanar are really puzzling in that I don't think they realize just how far this could go; and this civil suit is the least of their worries.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I wish I could accept that, I really do. But no one is forcing him to do this project. He is *choosing* to devote all of his time to it, and *choosing* not to do whatever normal work he would be doing to make his money. So no, he can't choose to stop working, then pay himself with the funds he raised for his non profit film based on an IP he doesn't even have the rights to use. Not only he is breaking the copyright rules by profiting from this project, he is also breaking the trust of the donors by using their donated funds to fund future projects that have nothing to do with Axanar.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008