I stopped about halfway through Page 2, after the eighth or ninth denial of the defendants that they had any knowledge of Star Trek aside from its existence as a television show in the late '60s. At first it was funny, but the joke ran on too long.
That's a pretty good tl;dr there for the document.
Now, I am aware of the necessity of Team Axanar to file a sort of response to the judge's denial of the MTD, and that was/is due beginning this week (but, they had time until the end of the month)... but, that was not their ONLY option. According to G&T's lawyer/co-host, they could file for an extension, and that it would likely be granted if settlement talks are indeed underway. Judges like settlements, after all.
Never heard the term "countersuit," though, in any of that... and, frankly, claims of damages and gimping C/P's ability to ever sue Team Axanar again... yeah, LOL...
Now, I am aware of the necessity of Team Axanar to file a sort of response to the judge's denial of the MTD, and that was/is due beginning this week (but, they had time until the end of the month)... but, that was not their ONLY option. According to G&T's lawyer/co-host, they could file for an extension, and that it would likely be granted if settlement talks are indeed underway. Judges like settlements, after all.
Never heard the term "countersuit," though, in any of that... and, frankly, claims of damages and gimping C/P's ability to ever sue Team Axanar again... yeah, LOL...
Keep in mind, I have no real legal experience, so maybe the folks at G&T will clarify, but my understanding is that a countersuit is basically a suit in response to an original suit. Basically, you are arguing that by sheer fact that you are being "unjustly" suited by a plantiff, you are being harmed, and thus entitled to damages resulting from harm done by the act of being suit.
This would of course assume that the original suit is thrown out, or otherwise judged in favor of the defendent. Otherwise (in the event that the plantiff wins) the countersuit is thrown out.
Now, I am aware of the necessity of Team Axanar to file a sort of response to the judge's denial of the MTD, and that was/is due beginning this week (but, they had time until the end of the month)... but, that was not their ONLY option. According to G&T's lawyer/co-host, they could file for an extension, and that it would likely be granted if settlement talks are indeed underway. Judges like settlements, after all.
Never heard the term "countersuit," though, in any of that... and, frankly, claims of damages and gimping C/P's ability to ever sue Team Axanar again... yeah, LOL...
Keep in mind, I have no real legal experience, so maybe the folks at G&T will clarify, but my understanding is that a countersuit is basically a suit in response to an original suit. Basically, you are arguing that by sheer fact that you are being "unjustly" suited by a plantiff, you are being harmed, and thus entitled to damages resulting from harm done by the act of being suit.
This would of course assume that the original suit is thrown out, or otherwise judged in favor of the defendent. Otherwise (in the event that the plantiff wins) the countersuit is thrown out.
Right, and this MAY be them "covering their bases" as settlement talks begin... but, still, even from a PR perspective... couldn't they have found a better way, LOL?
I'd also think that the countersuit would be dropped, as part of the settlement stipulations. Alec Peters isn't that dumb, right...?
Right, and this MAY be them "covering their bases" as settlement talks begin... but, still, even from a PR perspective... couldn't they have found a better way, LOL?
Yeah, I got nothing.
Peters may be using the countersuit as a way to negotiate from a better position (Drop countersuit, but get x from C/P), but considering the fact that the case is pretty clearly in C/P's favor if it ever goes to trial (meaning they have all the reason to hold out and call Peters bluff), I can't see it as the best possible move.
Coming into the conversation late, and not really willing to wade through all 44 pages of things. But I thought I'd post this, in case nobody else had. It's an interesting read, no matter which side of the fence you stand on - at least in my opinion.
Coming into the conversation late, and not really willing to wade through all 44 pages of things. But I thought I'd post this, in case nobody else had. It's an interesting read, no matter which side of the fence you stand on - at least in my opinion.
Could you be more specific as to what part you're referring to? And what is your legal basis for claiming so?
If you're going to sue someone for copyright or trademark infringment, you have to specify what elements are being infringed upon, and that they in fact own the copyright or trademark to the elements that they are claiming were infringed upon. That's just the legal truth of the matter.
Point in fact:
From this article trekmovie.com/2016/02/25/axanar-pushes-back-in-cbsparamount-lawsuit/
To get a professional perspective, we reached out to our own legal counsel, Susan Kayler, who told us that “the response is creative. I don’t know that it will work. It could slow things down. It will be interesting.”
Kayler, who founded the Artists and Writers Legal Resource Center, explains that by asking the plaintiffs to clarify which entities own which copyrightable assets, Axanar is calling into question whether Paramount or CBS have the right to file suit in the first place.
Who owns [particular elements from Star Trek] determines who can sue. Their argument is akin to, ‘you can’t sue us because you don’t own it.’ [Axanar] wants different entities to have to break down which part of Star Trek each “owns” since only the owner can file suit.
And I realize that this is mostly all moot at this point, but as has been said, it hasn't been settled yet.
maybe this is relevant: "This article makes a critical error that invalidates it: "Paramount does not own Captain Kirk et al; CBS does, as the current owner of the copyright on the 1966-69 series. This is legally significant, because unless Paramount can prove that Axanar is infringing on material that they truly hold the copyright to, Paramount has no legal standing to sue and could be removed from the case by the court."
Paramount and CBS are named as plaintiffs in this case."
Quote is from the Facebook group I've mentioned upthread a few times. Supposedly if you look at the warp nacelles of the Axanar ships they look very similar to ones in JJtrek, but I'm not so sure on that. Plus ownership information is listed on the last 2 pages of the amended complaint, which I can pull for you tomorrow if you want.
Hopefully things will go as Lin and Abrams stated and this is just putting checks in boxes. It is a dangerous position to put the franchise in. The countersuit is a very ugly threat in IP law. A unilateral statement of property is a safe challenge. Once the defence pushes the accuser to define their violations it becomes dangerous. There are without doubt infractions in the production but the era Axanar sits in is unclearly defined by the studios. In Law of show and tell it opens up a can of worms in the form of precedents that could damage the ability of the Star Trek IP to defend itself in the future. The realm of imaginary things has to become concise in a court of law.
The Friday announcement has me really excited. As a fan of Star Trek the ugliness over this has been disappointing and for right or wrong I just want the people who love it for the money to pretend to be nice to each other as the 50th rolls forward.
maybe this is relevant: "This article makes a critical error that invalidates it: "Paramount does not own Captain Kirk et al; CBS does, as the current owner of the copyright on the 1966-69 series. This is legally significant, because unless Paramount can prove that Axanar is infringing on material that they truly hold the copyright to, Paramount has no legal standing to sue and could be removed from the case by the court."
Paramount and CBS are named as plaintiffs in this case."
Quote is from the Facebook group I've mentioned upthread a few times. Supposedly if you look at the warp nacelles of the Axanar ships they look very similar to ones in JJtrek, but I'm not so sure on that. Plus ownership information is listed on the last 2 pages of the amended complaint, which I can pull for you tomorrow if you want.
That'd be nice to read, thanks. I'm pretty certain that the amended complaint came out after this article and the original push back from the defendants attorneys, but I'd still like to read it.
And even though Paramount was listed as a plaintiff, I'm to understand that both they and CBS had to stipulate specifics as to ownership and particular infringement(s). But i could be off on that thought.
Hopefully things will go as Lin and Abrams stated and this is just putting checks in boxes. It is a dangerous position to put the franchise in. The countersuit is a very ugly threat in IP law. A unilateral statement of property is a safe challenge. Once the defence pushes the accuser to define their violations it becomes dangerous. There are without doubt infractions in the production but the era Axanar sits in is unclearly defined by the studios. In Law of show and tell it opens up a can of worms in the form of precedents that could damage the ability of the Star Trek IP to defend itself in the future. The realm of imaginary things has to become concise in a court of law.
The Friday announcement has me really excited. As a fan of Star Trek the ugliness over this has been disappointing and for right or wrong I just want the people who love it for the money to pretend to be nice to each other as the 50th rolls forward.
I think that the push back form the defense attorney to basically "prove ownership", which meant that they'd have to dig back through god knows how many years of paperwork, mixed with the fan backlash (regardless of Axanar, there are plenty of fans that love these fan film productions) and the fact that there would most likely be a negligible to naught chance of any monetary recovery from the production company was enough for CBS/Paramount to just say "you know what, it's not worth it." and move to settle.
The fact that they clearly stated that they're drawing up guidelines gives them the means to prevent this sort of thing in the future.
Really, if Disney - as litigious as they are - is allowing Star Wars fan films to continue being made, then Paramount should have looked around and decided to handle the situation differently.
Not that they weren't completely within their right to defend their IP of course. They would have eventually won, but the fallout would have been catastrophic I think.
I like the part when Ranahan debunked the claim of "ancient Vulcan letters" on the robes. Chinese lettering, ha! Wish I could see the executives faces at CBS/Paramount.
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Coming into the conversation late, and not really willing to wade through all 44 pages of things. But I thought I'd post this, in case nobody else had. It's an interesting read, no matter which side of the fence you stand on - at least in my opinion.
It's also VERY old in relation to things like Axanar's motion to dismiss being fully 100% denied (and the Judge effectively schooling the W&S legal team for one of their case citations in said MTD where they only brought up part of the case cite that supported their case; while LEAVING OUT the other half that basically shot down many of their specific arguments with a clear ruling)
So, yeah at this point the article you linked is not reflective of the current state of the C/P V. Axanar suit. If anything Axanar's MTD showed W&S to be fairly amateurish in copyright when compared to L&L; and their response to the Plaintiffs claims really goes over the top in a couple areas; and will probably again cause the Judge to roll his eyes should this case go to trial.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I like the part when Ranahan debunked the claim of "ancient Vulcan letters" on the robes. Chinese lettering, ha! Wish I could see the executives faces at CBS/Paramount.
This is Vulcan caligraphy, not any form of Chinese writing...
Chinese letters, of all things... couldn't they pick something a little less ridiculous?
I think it shows the lengths of prevarication and deception that some people will go to in an attempt to 'not get in trouble'... Over the page, it's mentioned that they deny that the idea was to be called Star Trek Axanar, but the url for the fb page, yup, StarTrekAxanar... When someone lies in ways which can be debunked in seconds by anyone with internet access, said liars need prosecuting to the full extent of the law... JJ Abrams and Justin Lin threw Alec Peters a lifeline with their intervention. He's basically spat in their faces, set fire to the lifeline, and gone back to sawing the branch while he's sitting on it... At this point, he deserves whatever the court throws at him, and that's not taking into account the fans who will be wanting their donations back when it becomes impossible for him to make the movie they supported...
Chinese letters, of all things... couldn't they pick something a little less ridiculous?
I think it shows the lengths of prevarication and deception that some people will go to in an attempt to 'not get in trouble'...
None at all?
Seriously, with it being as blatant and lazy (there are other scripts that would be closer to Vulcan, IIRC) as it is, I'm pretty sure you're insulting proper liars.
Over the page, it's mentioned that they deny that the idea was to be called Star Trek Axanar, but the url for the fb page, yup, StarTrekAxanar... When someone lies in ways which can be debunked in seconds by anyone with internet access, said liars need prosecuting to the full extent of the law... JJ Abrams and Justin Lin threw Alec Peters a lifeline with their intervention. He's basically spat in their faces, set fire to the lifeline, and gone back to sawing the branch while he's sitting on it... At this point, he deserves whatever the court throws at him, and that's not taking into account the fans who will be wanting their donations back when it becomes impossible for him to make the movie they supported...
Yep.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Chinese letters, of all things... couldn't they pick something a little less ridiculous?
I think it shows the lengths of prevarication and deception that some people will go to in an attempt to 'not get in trouble'...
None at all?
Seriously, with it being as blatant and lazy (there are other scripts that would be closer to Vulcan, IIRC) as it is, I'm pretty sure you're insulting proper liars.
Over the page, it's mentioned that they deny that the idea was to be called Star Trek Axanar, but the url for the fb page, yup, StarTrekAxanar... When someone lies in ways which can be debunked in seconds by anyone with internet access, said liars need prosecuting to the full extent of the law... JJ Abrams and Justin Lin threw Alec Peters a lifeline with their intervention. He's basically spat in their faces, set fire to the lifeline, and gone back to sawing the branch while he's sitting on it... At this point, he deserves whatever the court throws at him, and that's not taking into account the fans who will be wanting their donations back when it becomes impossible for him to make the movie they supported...
Yep.
Yup, makes the lies spun on Jeremy Kyle sound positively plausible Also says pretty scary things about Alec Peters as to the levels of deception he'll sink to...
I like the part when Ranahan debunked the claim of "ancient Vulcan letters" on the robes. Chinese lettering, ha! Wish I could see the executives faces at CBS/Paramount.
This is Vulcan caligraphy, not any form of Chinese writing...
what most people think of as Chinese is on the left, and Manchurian is on the right. It's not that close though, but like Vulcan it's written top to bottom.
Comments
That's a pretty good tl;dr there for the document.
http://1701news.com/node/1207/axanar-countersues-paramount-cbs-copyright-case.html
I'm dumbfounded.
I like the idea of Soval wearing chinese script. I didn't know Vulcans were such fans of Earth culture that they would decorate their clothes with it?
Soval actually works part-time at the Panda Express in ESD... latinum ain't cheap, ya know...
We're really gonna need a @terranempire#7881 opinion on this one.
Now, I am aware of the necessity of Team Axanar to file a sort of response to the judge's denial of the MTD, and that was/is due beginning this week (but, they had time until the end of the month)... but, that was not their ONLY option. According to G&T's lawyer/co-host, they could file for an extension, and that it would likely be granted if settlement talks are indeed underway. Judges like settlements, after all.
Never heard the term "countersuit," though, in any of that... and, frankly, claims of damages and gimping C/P's ability to ever sue Team Axanar again... yeah, LOL...
Keep in mind, I have no real legal experience, so maybe the folks at G&T will clarify, but my understanding is that a countersuit is basically a suit in response to an original suit. Basically, you are arguing that by sheer fact that you are being "unjustly" suited by a plantiff, you are being harmed, and thus entitled to damages resulting from harm done by the act of being suit.
This would of course assume that the original suit is thrown out, or otherwise judged in favor of the defendent. Otherwise (in the event that the plantiff wins) the countersuit is thrown out.
Right, and this MAY be them "covering their bases" as settlement talks begin... but, still, even from a PR perspective... couldn't they have found a better way, LOL?
I'd also think that the countersuit would be dropped, as part of the settlement stipulations. Alec Peters isn't that dumb, right...?
... why am I hearing crickets?
Yeah, I got nothing.
Peters may be using the countersuit as a way to negotiate from a better position (Drop countersuit, but get x from C/P), but considering the fact that the case is pretty clearly in C/P's favor if it ever goes to trial (meaning they have all the reason to hold out and call Peters bluff), I can't see it as the best possible move.
https://kryptonradio.com/2016/04/05/paramount-lawsuit-becomes-studios-kobayashi-maru/
Could you be more specific as to what part you're referring to? And what is your legal basis for claiming so?
If you're going to sue someone for copyright or trademark infringment, you have to specify what elements are being infringed upon, and that they in fact own the copyright or trademark to the elements that they are claiming were infringed upon. That's just the legal truth of the matter.
Point in fact:
From this article trekmovie.com/2016/02/25/axanar-pushes-back-in-cbsparamount-lawsuit/
To get a professional perspective, we reached out to our own legal counsel, Susan Kayler, who told us that “the response is creative. I don’t know that it will work. It could slow things down. It will be interesting.”
Kayler, who founded the Artists and Writers Legal Resource Center, explains that by asking the plaintiffs to clarify which entities own which copyrightable assets, Axanar is calling into question whether Paramount or CBS have the right to file suit in the first place.
Who owns [particular elements from Star Trek] determines who can sue. Their argument is akin to, ‘you can’t sue us because you don’t own it.’ [Axanar] wants different entities to have to break down which part of Star Trek each “owns” since only the owner can file suit.
And I realize that this is mostly all moot at this point, but as has been said, it hasn't been settled yet.
Paramount and CBS are named as plaintiffs in this case."
Quote is from the Facebook group I've mentioned upthread a few times. Supposedly if you look at the warp nacelles of the Axanar ships they look very similar to ones in JJtrek, but I'm not so sure on that. Plus ownership information is listed on the last 2 pages of the amended complaint, which I can pull for you tomorrow if you want.
The Friday announcement has me really excited. As a fan of Star Trek the ugliness over this has been disappointing and for right or wrong I just want the people who love it for the money to pretend to be nice to each other as the 50th rolls forward.
That'd be nice to read, thanks. I'm pretty certain that the amended complaint came out after this article and the original push back from the defendants attorneys, but I'd still like to read it.
And even though Paramount was listed as a plaintiff, I'm to understand that both they and CBS had to stipulate specifics as to ownership and particular infringement(s). But i could be off on that thought.
Thanks!
I think that the push back form the defense attorney to basically "prove ownership", which meant that they'd have to dig back through god knows how many years of paperwork, mixed with the fan backlash (regardless of Axanar, there are plenty of fans that love these fan film productions) and the fact that there would most likely be a negligible to naught chance of any monetary recovery from the production company was enough for CBS/Paramount to just say "you know what, it's not worth it." and move to settle.
The fact that they clearly stated that they're drawing up guidelines gives them the means to prevent this sort of thing in the future.
Really, if Disney - as litigious as they are - is allowing Star Wars fan films to continue being made, then Paramount should have looked around and decided to handle the situation differently.
Not that they weren't completely within their right to defend their IP of course. They would have eventually won, but the fallout would have been catastrophic I think.
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
It's also VERY old in relation to things like Axanar's motion to dismiss being fully 100% denied (and the Judge effectively schooling the W&S legal team for one of their case citations in said MTD where they only brought up part of the case cite that supported their case; while LEAVING OUT the other half that basically shot down many of their specific arguments with a clear ruling)
So, yeah at this point the article you linked is not reflective of the current state of the C/P V. Axanar suit. If anything Axanar's MTD showed W&S to be fairly amateurish in copyright when compared to L&L; and their response to the Plaintiffs claims really goes over the top in a couple areas; and will probably again cause the Judge to roll his eyes should this case go to trial.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
This is Vulcan caligraphy, not any form of Chinese writing...
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I guess crop circles was taken
None at all?
Seriously, with it being as blatant and lazy (there are other scripts that would be closer to Vulcan, IIRC) as it is, I'm pretty sure you're insulting proper liars.
Yep.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
what most people think of as Chinese is on the left, and Manchurian is on the right. It's not that close though, but like Vulcan it's written top to bottom.
My character Tsin'xing
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
My character Tsin'xing