Shame, too, since Kraft was basically a one-man production crew. Interesting, too, that he blames Peters and Axanar for this.
Well, some people may not know this - but Tommy Kraft did do the majority of green screen composite post production work on Prelude to Axanar. I'll bet the C/P lawyers didn't think it would help their Copyright Infringement case against Axanar (and Alec Peters) if Mr. Kraft, who did the aforementioned composite work for Prelude to Axanar, was allowed to crowdfund and produce another Star Trek related fan film, while the Axanar case is still in litigation - so Mr. Kraft gets a 'friendly' C&D via Facebook; and wisely complies.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Shame, too, since Kraft was basically a one-man production crew. Interesting, too, that he blames Peters and Axanar for this.
Well, some people may not know this - but Tommy Kraft did do the majority of green screen composite post production work on Prelude to Axanar. I'll bet the C/P lawyers didn't think it would help their Copyright Infringement case against Axanar (and Alec Peters) if Mr. Kraft, who did the aforementioned composite work for Prelude to Axanar, was allowed to crowdfund and produce another Star Trek related fan film, while the Axanar case is still in litigation - so Mr. Kraft gets a 'friendly' C&D via Facebook; and wisely complies.
Shame, too, since Kraft was basically a one-man production crew. Interesting, too, that he blames Peters and Axanar for this.
Well, some people may not know this - but Tommy Kraft did do the majority of green screen composite post production work on Prelude to Axanar. I'll bet the C/P lawyers didn't think it would help their Copyright Infringement case against Axanar (and Alec Peters) if Mr. Kraft, who did the aforementioned composite work for Prelude to Axanar, was allowed to crowdfund and produce another Star Trek related fan film, while the Axanar case is still in litigation - so Mr. Kraft gets a 'friendly' C&D via Facebook; and wisely complies.
Ahhh, interesting indeed...
Yes. This little bit of information casts a whole new light on things.
If CBS is 'going after' those involved with Axanar productions; it may well be that things are not so grim for unrelated fan productions. Here's hoping.
I suspect this may just be a temporary embargo (from Kraft's phrasing) until the lawsuit is over. This seems to be CBS trying to keep Axanar from using the usual fan-film policy against the plaintiffs by advising fans to not initiate any projects for now. Kraft said he'd been advised not to start 'Federation Rising' "at this time". That suggests this might just be temporary until after the lawsuit. Bare in mind, Star Trek: Continues is still crowdfunding.
In any case, I think CBS are going to be a bit tougher on fan film rules from now on.
It's a shame: I just watched Horizon the other day - it was a great film, almost professional in quality.
STC has been hit hard in terms of support... The differences between Axanar and STC, is that Vic Mignogna not only does not draw a salary from raised funds, but has put $150'000 of his own money into it, and STC doesn't sell merch for profit... STC is crowdfunding done right, professional quality releases, and a product which actually captures the spirit of TOS. Axanar, is Alec Peter's ego-driven cash-cow which he used to build a studio... To compare the two in any way whatsoever, really is quite unfair...
I was not comparing them. I was pointing out that CBS is not putting a blanket ban on crowd-funded fan-films. I was comparing Continues to 'Federation Rising' (the fan film CBS just warned Kraft off of making for now) as evidence that this is temporary, since Continues hasn't been given such warning by CBS. Hence, CBS are not specifically targeting crowd-funded fan films, but rather those being initiated during the lawsuit.
And I would donate to Continues, but unfortunately I'm a Sixth Form Student with almost no disposable income. The most I've 'crowdfunded' is £5 to Charity:Water a couple of months ago.
But as to 'what he is allowed to do', he also has a fairly could point, that CBS/Paramount never tell ppl what they can do.
See, this is the part you don't understand. CBS doesn't need to tell him, because the LAW already does. You can't use someone else's copyrighted brand to make money without their permission. Whether CBS says that or not makes no difference. That's like you saying that if I don't tell someone they can't break into my house and steal things, then it's ok. Um, no. The LAW says they can't, even if I don't specifically say so myself.
Ah, but see, this is the part you don't understand. The Law doesn't automagically protect trademarks. In fact, there's a commonly held principle in Law (pretty much across all Western civilizations), that you can, in fact, lose your trademarks even when you don't (rigorously) pursue the matter when someone infringes on it. (Which is, for instance, why lucas films lawyers continually, and vigorously, have Star Wars material removed from Second Life: if they don't, they stand to lose the trademark rights on it, when left unattended for too long). This is (only partly) a reflection of what in Law is known as the nulla poena principle: applicable to only crminal law now, of course, but I personally wouldn't mind seeing it extended to civil law as well: if you're going to punish people, it should simple be made clear what is, and what isn't allowed.
P.S. You don't have to defend copyright infringement, btw.
Here's the piece you missed. Second Life pays for itself by microtransactions in the form of converting real money to their fictional Linden dollars, with which you can, among other things, buy and sell player-made items. Linden dollars can also be converted back to real money. It is therefore possible to earn real money by making unlicensed digital Star Wars merch.
Same deal: You're making a personal profit off of somebody else's intellectual property without having made a contract with the owner of that IP that says you're allowed to do so.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Peters' actions are really starting to catch up with people... and I hate to bring this up, but there is a small connection between STO and Axanar, and it would break my heart if this happens to... yeah.
That really is sad, but I wouldn't worry about STO, because STO is officially licensed...
I think he was implying that someone involved with STO has some link with Axanar, and he doesn't want to see that person blacklisted too.
Yep.
I don't want to ring any unnecessary alarm bells, but it ain't hard to figure out who I'm talking about.
I think people need to distance themselves as far away as they can from Axanar.
Yeah I know who you mean and this is indeed poohy and i honestly am shocked and worried for this person very very much...
Shame, too, since Kraft was basically a one-man production crew. Interesting, too, that he blames Peters and Axanar for this.
Well, some people may not know this - but Tommy Kraft did do the majority of green screen composite post production work on Prelude to Axanar. I'll bet the C/P lawyers didn't think it would help their Copyright Infringement case against Axanar (and Alec Peters) if Mr. Kraft, who did the aforementioned composite work for Prelude to Axanar, was allowed to crowdfund and produce another Star Trek related fan film, while the Axanar case is still in litigation - so Mr. Kraft gets a 'friendly' C&D via Facebook; and wisely complies.
Ahhh, interesting indeed...
Yes. This little bit of information casts a whole new light on things.
If CBS is 'going after' those involved with Axanar productions; it may well be that things are not so grim for unrelated fan productions. Here's hoping.
Yeah, I'd seen that there were 'unnamed does' 'named'(ish, as in their existence acknowledged, not their identities given) in the original papers, and I'm sure the full legalese had something to do with considering them accessories/facilitators... What I find dsad, is the idea that the guy who designed the Aresand the Titan is getting black-lidted, for what he thought was a legit project to contribut to out of love of the franchise
But as to 'what he is allowed to do', he also has a fairly could point, that CBS/Paramount never tell ppl what they can do.
See, this is the part you don't understand. CBS doesn't need to tell him, because the LAW already does. You can't use someone else's copyrighted brand to make money without their permission. Whether CBS says that or not makes no difference. That's like you saying that if I don't tell someone they can't break into my house and steal things, then it's ok. Um, no. The LAW says they can't, even if I don't specifically say so myself.
Ah, but see, this is the part you don't understand. The Law doesn't automagically protect trademarks. In fact, there's a commonly held principle in Law (pretty much across all Western civilizations), that you can, in fact, lose your trademarks even when you don't (rigorously) pursue the matter when someone infringes on it. (Which is, for instance, why lucas films lawyers continually, and vigorously, have Star Wars material removed from Second Life: if they don't, they stand to lose the trademark rights on it, when left unattended for too long). This is (only partly) a reflection of what in Law is known as the nulla poena principle: applicable to only crminal law now, of course, but I personally wouldn't mind seeing it extended to civil law as well: if you're going to punish people, it should simple be made clear what is, and what isn't allowed.
P.S. You don't have to defend copyright infringement, btw.
Here's the piece you missed. Second Life pays for itself by microtransactions in the form of converting real money to their fictional Linden dollars, with which you can, among other things, buy and sell player-made items. Linden dollars can also be converted back to real money. It is therefore possible to earn real money by making unlicensed digital Star Wars merch.
Same deal: You're making a personal profit off of somebody else's intellectual property without having made a contract with the owner of that IP that says you're allowed to do so.
Yep.
If, as Meimeitoo said, they had to go after these things or risk losing their trademarks, modding would have never been as big as it once was. Battlefield 1942 had a huge star wars total conversion made for it back in the day, which was never shut down. Star wars: empire at war had a Stargate total conversion. And there's countless others that also would have been shut down if copyright law worked this way.
Oh and I almost forgot, almost every franchise imaginable has a mod available for minecraft.
I suspect this may just be a temporary embargo (from Kraft's phrasing) until the lawsuit is over. This seems to be CBS trying to keep Axanar from using the usual fan-film policy against the plaintiffs by advising fans to not initiate any projects for now. Kraft said he'd been advised not to start 'Federation Rising' "at this time". That suggests this might just be temporary until after the lawsuit. Bare in mind, Star Trek: Continues is still crowdfunding.
In any case, I think CBS are going to be a bit tougher on fan film rules from now on.
It's a shame: I just watched Horizon the other day - it was a great film, almost professional in quality.
STC has been hit hard in terms of support... The differences between Axanar and STC, is that Vic Mignogna not only does not draw a salary from raised funds, but has put $150'000 of his own money into it, and STC doesn't sell merch for profit... STC is crowdfunding done right, professional quality releases, and a product which actually captures the spirit of TOS. Axanar, is Alec Peter's ego-driven cash-cow which he used to build a studio... To compare the two in any way whatsoever, really is quite unfair...
I was not comparing them. I was pointing out that CBS is not putting a blanket ban on crowd-funded fan-films. I was comparing Continues to 'Federation Rising' (the fan film CBS just warned Kraft off of making for now) as evidence that this is temporary, since Continues hasn't been given such warning by CBS. Hence, CBS are not specifically targeting crowd-funded fan films, but rather those being initiated during the lawsuit.
And I would donate to Continues, but unfortunately I'm a Sixth Form Student with almost no disposable income. The most I've 'crowdfunded' is £5 to Charity:Water a couple of months ago.
I'm sorry, I didn't intend to suggest that you were comparing them, I was just meaning that in general, Axanar and STC are very different animals, and really cannot (or should not) be compared, simply because they are 'both fan films'...
And you don't need to justify your donations/spending to me, or anyone else, my man, my financial situation is far from ideal at the moment (and funnily enough, I can't access the Kane Family Fortune ;p ) so on that regard, I truly understand, and likewise, I have also not contributed to STC financially, but have always tried to promote it when it would be welcome, rather than shilling, and take part in the discussions on fb
But as to 'what he is allowed to do', he also has a fairly could point, that CBS/Paramount never tell ppl what they can do.
See, this is the part you don't understand. CBS doesn't need to tell him, because the LAW already does. You can't use someone else's copyrighted brand to make money without their permission. Whether CBS says that or not makes no difference. That's like you saying that if I don't tell someone they can't break into my house and steal things, then it's ok. Um, no. The LAW says they can't, even if I don't specifically say so myself.
Ah, but see, this is the part you don't understand. The Law doesn't automagically protect trademarks. In fact, there's a commonly held principle in Law (pretty much across all Western civilizations), that you can, in fact, lose your trademarks even when you don't (rigorously) pursue the matter when someone infringes on it. (Which is, for instance, why lucas films lawyers continually, and vigorously, have Star Wars material removed from Second Life: if they don't, they stand to lose the trademark rights on it, when left unattended for too long). This is (only partly) a reflection of what in Law is known as the nulla poena principle: applicable to only crminal law now, of course, but I personally wouldn't mind seeing it extended to civil law as well: if you're going to punish people, it should simple be made clear what is, and what isn't allowed.
P.S. You don't have to defend copyright infringement, btw.
Here's the piece you missed. Second Life pays for itself by microtransactions in the form of converting real money to their fictional Linden dollars, with which you can, among other things, buy and sell player-made items. Linden dollars can also be converted back to real money. It is therefore possible to earn real money by making unlicensed digital Star Wars merch.
Same deal: You're making a personal profit off of somebody else's intellectual property without having made a contract with the owner of that IP that says you're allowed to do so.
If, as Meimeitoo said, they had to go after these things or risk losing their trademarks, modding would have never been as big as it once was. Battlefield 1942 had a huge star wars total conversion made for it back in the day, which was never shut down. Star wars: empire at war had a Stargate total conversion. And there's countless others that also would have been shut down if copyright law worked this way.
Oh and I almost forgot, almost every franchise imaginable has a mod available for minecraft.
Well, Warner Brothers killed a Middle-Earth mod for TES4: Oblivion (some nonsense about people confusing it for Lord of the Rings Online, as if a mod for a single-player RPG and a professionally made MMORPG are so similar that people could be confused), but that's kind of an outlier (read as "Warner Bros. are kind of dicks"). It does happen occasionally that an actually not-for-profit fan production gets shut down, but most companies, most of the time, as a rule don't.
Hell, Valve famously even let a team do a complete standalone remake of their own game Half-Life using the Source engine (the team apparently thought the official Half-Life: Source was underwhelming, and frankly I don't blame them), only asking for two things: that they take the word "Source" off the name so people don't think it's a Valve release, and that the Valve team gets first crack at playing it. It's called Black Mesa. (Valve has since even allowed the Black Mesa team to sell the still-unfinished game on Steam.)
And there's all kinds of games using the open-source FreeSpace 2 engine, such as a very faithful Babylon 5 fighter simulator called The Babylon Project.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Shame, too, since Kraft was basically a one-man production crew. Interesting, too, that he blames Peters and Axanar for this.
Well, some people may not know this - but Tommy Kraft did do the majority of green screen composite post production work on Prelude to Axanar. I'll bet the C/P lawyers didn't think it would help their Copyright Infringement case against Axanar (and Alec Peters) if Mr. Kraft, who did the aforementioned composite work for Prelude to Axanar, was allowed to crowdfund and produce another Star Trek related fan film, while the Axanar case is still in litigation - so Mr. Kraft gets a 'friendly' C&D via Facebook; and wisely complies.
Oh, wow... then, that conversation with CBS could (as others have said) gone quite differently. Makes me wonder if Kraft could be one of the 20 or so unnamed "John Doe"s on the Axanar suit (and, if not, if CBS quietly implied that he should back down, because there would be grounds for a second case against Kraft that shows a pattern of competition and infringement).
Still, Kraft had ties to Axanar... that does NOT quiet my fears for our buddy, the patchmaker/shipwright.
Peters' actions are really starting to catch up with people... and I hate to bring this up, but there is a small connection between STO and Axanar, and it would break my heart if this happens to... yeah.
That really is sad, but I wouldn't worry about STO, because STO is officially licensed...
I think he was implying that someone involved with STO has some link with Axanar, and he doesn't want to see that person blacklisted too.
Yep.
I don't want to ring any unnecessary alarm bells, but it ain't hard to figure out who I'm talking about.
I think people need to distance themselves as far away as they can from Axanar.
Yeah I know who you mean and this is indeed poohy and i honestly am shocked and worried for this person very very much...
Yes. He could have zero to worry about, don't get me wrong... again, I think everybody involved with Peters needs to distance themselves, fast. The gloves are coming off, and CBS won't play nice forever.
But as to 'what he is allowed to do', he also has a fairly could point, that CBS/Paramount never tell ppl what they can do.
See, this is the part you don't understand. CBS doesn't need to tell him, because the LAW already does. You can't use someone else's copyrighted brand to make money without their permission. Whether CBS says that or not makes no difference. That's like you saying that if I don't tell someone they can't break into my house and steal things, then it's ok. Um, no. The LAW says they can't, even if I don't specifically say so myself.
Ah, but see, this is the part you don't understand. The Law doesn't automagically protect trademarks. In fact, there's a commonly held principle in Law (pretty much across all Western civilizations), that you can, in fact, lose your trademarks even when you don't (rigorously) pursue the matter when someone infringes on it. (Which is, for instance, why lucas films lawyers continually, and vigorously, have Star Wars material removed from Second Life: if they don't, they stand to lose the trademark rights on it, when left unattended for too long). This is (only partly) a reflection of what in Law is known as the nulla poena principle: applicable to only crminal law now, of course, but I personally wouldn't mind seeing it extended to civil law as well: if you're going to punish people, it should simple be made clear what is, and what isn't allowed.
P.S. You don't have to defend copyright infringement, btw.
Here's the piece you missed. Second Life pays for itself by microtransactions in the form of converting real money to their fictional Linden dollars, with which you can, among other things, buy and sell player-made items. Linden dollars can also be converted back to real money. It is therefore possible to earn real money by making unlicensed digital Star Wars merch.
Same deal: You're making a personal profit off of somebody else's intellectual property without having made a contract with the owner of that IP that says you're allowed to do so.
If, as Meimeitoo said, they had to go after these things or risk losing their trademarks, modding would have never been as big as it once was. Battlefield 1942 had a huge star wars total conversion made for it back in the day, which was never shut down. Star wars: empire at war had a Stargate total conversion. And there's countless others that also would have been shut down if copyright law worked this way.
Oh and I almost forgot, almost every franchise imaginable has a mod available for minecraft.
Well, Warner Brothers killed a Middle-Earth mod for TES4: Oblivion (some nonsense about people confusing it for Lord of the Rings Online, as if a mod for a single-player RPG and a professionally made MMORPG are so similar that people could be confused), but that's kind of an outlier (read as "Warner Bros. are kind of dicks"). It does happen occasionally that an actually not-for-profit fan production gets shut down, but most companies, most of the time, as a rule don't.
Hell, Valve famously even let a team do a complete standalone remake of their own game Half-Life using the Source engine (the team apparently thought the official Half-Life: Source was underwhelming, and frankly I don't blame them), only asking for two things: that they take the word "Source" off the name so people don't think it's a Valve release, and that the Valve team gets first crack at playing it. It's called Black Mesa. (Valve has since even allowed the Black Mesa team to sell the still-unfinished game on Steam.)
And there's all kinds of games using the open-source FreeSpace 2 engine, such as a very faithful Babylon 5 fighter simulator called The Babylon Project.
Yeah, I proly should have mentioned that some do get shut down, but the main point I was trying to make was that lucasarts, the company they specifically mentioned as aggressive, never touched a mod that directly competed with one of their own games (the original battlefront).
The main examples I can think of for mods that got shut down involved the Aliens franchise. There was an AvP total conversion in the works for starcraft: broodwar way back in the day that I was looking forward to, until one day it got "foxed" as some people called it at the time. Fox didn't seem play around when it came to those things.
.. again, I think everybody involved with Peters needs to distance themselves, fast. The gloves are coming off, and CBS won't play nice forever.
I think when Peters tried to get the case dismissed because "CBS/Paramount didn't specify what trademarks/copyrights were infringed upon", things were going to get ugly fast. The fact that CBS countered by being VERY specific says they are taking this seriously.
Well, Warner Brothers killed a Middle-Earth mod for TES4: Oblivion (some nonsense about people confusing it for Lord of the Rings Online, as if a mod for a single-player RPG and a professionally made MMORPG are so similar that people could be confused), but that's kind of an outlier (read as "Warner Bros. are kind of dicks"). It does happen occasionally that an actually not-for-profit fan production gets shut down, but most companies, most of the time, as a rule don't.
Hell, Valve famously even let a team do a complete standalone remake of their own game Half-Life using the Source engine (the team apparently thought the official Half-Life: Source was underwhelming, and frankly I don't blame them), only asking for two things: that they take the word "Source" off the name so people don't think it's a Valve release, and that the Valve team gets first crack at playing it. It's called Black Mesa. (Valve has since even allowed the Black Mesa team to sell the still-unfinished game on Steam.)
And there's all kinds of games using the open-source FreeSpace 2 engine, such as a very faithful Babylon 5 fighter simulator called The Babylon Project.
Yeah, I proly should have mentioned that some do get shut down, but the main point I was trying to make was that lucasarts, the company they specifically mentioned as aggressive, never touched a mod that directly competed with one of their own games (the original battlefront).
The main examples I can think of for mods that got shut down involved the Aliens franchise. There was an AvP total conversion in the works for starcraft: broodwar way back in the day that I was looking forward to, until one day it got "foxed" as some people called it at the time. Fox didn't seem play around when it came to those things.
Lucasfilm goes back even further than gaming with that. Earliest example I know of was their agreement with Mel Brooks about Spaceballs that he could make the film as long as he didn't try to sell merch for it (which Mel Brooks, being Mel Brooks, made fun of in the movie). And that's a case where there actually is a clear fair-use justification, namely the doctrine that parody is protected speech.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Shame, too, since Kraft was basically a one-man production crew. Interesting, too, that he blames Peters and Axanar for this.
Well, some people may not know this - but Tommy Kraft did do the majority of green screen composite post production work on Prelude to Axanar. I'll bet the C/P lawyers didn't think it would help their Copyright Infringement case against Axanar (and Alec Peters) if Mr. Kraft, who did the aforementioned composite work for Prelude to Axanar, was allowed to crowdfund and produce another Star Trek related fan film, while the Axanar case is still in litigation - so Mr. Kraft gets a 'friendly' C&D via Facebook; and wisely complies.
Ahhh, interesting indeed...
Yes. This little bit of information casts a whole new light on things.
If CBS is 'going after' those involved with Axanar productions; it may well be that things are not so grim for unrelated fan productions. Here's hoping.
Yeah, I'd seen that there were 'unnamed does' 'named'(ish, as in their existence acknowledged, not their identities given) in the original papers, and I'm sure the full legalese had something to do with considering them accessories/facilitators... What I find dsad, is the idea that the guy who designed the Aresand the Titan is getting black-lidted, for what he thought was a legit project to contribut to out of love of the franchise
How could Axanar (OR ANY Star Trek Fan Film) be considered 'legit' as they never received a license from CBS and EVERY fan film producer (even Alec Peters back in 2013) have said they realise CBS could come in and shut them down? A majority the Fan Film leads of other groups have said if CBS contacted them and asked them to cease production, they would. Tommy Kraft received such a request and replied.
Anyone who's done legitimate business on licensed IPs (or won a contest where they signed away their rights, etc.) KNOWS that any non-licenced project carries risk and I don't think Sean Tourangeau was unaware of this fact. I can understand why he's upset, but he's responsible for the decision he made when he designed the USS Ares for Alec Peters and Axanar Productions. He was well aware it was an unlicensed project. (And by selling models and woodcuts of the ship in their 'Donor Store' Axanar Productions and Alec Peters are the ones who really screwed over Sean Tourangeau; NOT CBS/Paramount.)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Shame, too, since Kraft was basically a one-man production crew. Interesting, too, that he blames Peters and Axanar for this.
Well, some people may not know this - but Tommy Kraft did do the majority of green screen composite post production work on Prelude to Axanar. I'll bet the C/P lawyers didn't think it would help their Copyright Infringement case against Axanar (and Alec Peters) if Mr. Kraft, who did the aforementioned composite work for Prelude to Axanar, was allowed to crowdfund and produce another Star Trek related fan film, while the Axanar case is still in litigation - so Mr. Kraft gets a 'friendly' C&D via Facebook; and wisely complies.
Ahhh, interesting indeed...
Yes. This little bit of information casts a whole new light on things.
If CBS is 'going after' those involved with Axanar productions; it may well be that things are not so grim for unrelated fan productions. Here's hoping.
Yeah, I'd seen that there were 'unnamed does' 'named'(ish, as in their existence acknowledged, not their identities given) in the original papers, and I'm sure the full legalese had something to do with considering them accessories/facilitators... What I find dsad, is the idea that the guy who designed the Aresand the Titan is getting black-lidted, for what he thought was a legit project to contribut to out of love of the franchise
How could Axanar (OR ANY Star Trek Fan Film) be considered 'legit' as they never received a license from CBS and EVERY fan film producer (even Alec Peters back in 2013) have said they realise CBS could come in and shut them down? A majority the Fan Film leads of other groups have said if CBS contacted them and asked them to cease production, they would. Tommy Kraft received such a request and replied.
Anyone who's done legitimate business on licensed IPs (or won a contest where they signed away their rights, etc.) KNOWS that any non-licenced project carries risk and I don't think Sean Tourangeau was unaware of this fact. I can understand why he's upset, but he's responsible for the decision he made when he designed the USS Ares for Alec Peters and Axanar Productions. He was well aware it was an unlicensed project. (And by selling models and woodcuts of the ship in their 'Donor Store' Axanar Productions and Alec Peters are the ones who really screwed over Sean Tourangeau; NOT CBS/Paramount.)
You know, as well as I do, that fan films have been around for quite a while, such as Of Gods and Men. They might not be officially licenced, but they are still legitimate projects based on a love of the franchise and a desire to tell a story, rather than to make profit or try and leverage oneself into a position, both of which Alec Peters did with the Axanar Works...
As for Sean Tourangeau, there are too many variables to comment with any certainty, but at the most lenient of circumstances, he would have been approached as a ship designer who had worked in the franchise before and asked for a ship design. Which he provided. It was Alec Peters who decided to then make money off that design, so rather unfair for Sean Tourangeau, to then get blacklisted by other elements in the franchise.
It's like the ludicrous lawsuit I've read about where people are trying to sue a firearms manufacterer, because their product was used to kill someone... By that logic, if someone drinks themself to death (ie alcohol poisoning) then the distillery which produced the booze should be sued... Ludicrous...
Unless they can prove that Sean Tourango actually knew that his design was definitely going to be used to make profit, and that he himself would profit from it as well, he should be within his rights to claim ignorance of Alec Peters' intentions, or the eventual outcome...
Shame, too, since Kraft was basically a one-man production crew. Interesting, too, that he blames Peters and Axanar for this.
Well, some people may not know this - but Tommy Kraft did do the majority of green screen composite post production work on Prelude to Axanar. I'll bet the C/P lawyers didn't think it would help their Copyright Infringement case against Axanar (and Alec Peters) if Mr. Kraft, who did the aforementioned composite work for Prelude to Axanar, was allowed to crowdfund and produce another Star Trek related fan film, while the Axanar case is still in litigation - so Mr. Kraft gets a 'friendly' C&D via Facebook; and wisely complies.
Ahhh, interesting indeed...
Yes. This little bit of information casts a whole new light on things.
If CBS is 'going after' those involved with Axanar productions; it may well be that things are not so grim for unrelated fan productions. Here's hoping.
Yeah, I'd seen that there were 'unnamed does' 'named'(ish, as in their existence acknowledged, not their identities given) in the original papers, and I'm sure the full legalese had something to do with considering them accessories/facilitators... What I find dsad, is the idea that the guy who designed the Aresand the Titan is getting black-lidted, for what he thought was a legit project to contribut to out of love of the franchise
How could Axanar (OR ANY Star Trek Fan Film) be considered 'legit' as they never received a license from CBS and EVERY fan film producer (even Alec Peters back in 2013) have said they realise CBS could come in and shut them down? A majority the Fan Film leads of other groups have said if CBS contacted them and asked them to cease production, they would. Tommy Kraft received such a request and replied.
Anyone who's done legitimate business on licensed IPs (or won a contest where they signed away their rights, etc.) KNOWS that any non-licenced project carries risk and I don't think Sean Tourangeau was unaware of this fact. I can understand why he's upset, but he's responsible for the decision he made when he designed the USS Ares for Alec Peters and Axanar Productions. He was well aware it was an unlicensed project. (And by selling models and woodcuts of the ship in their 'Donor Store' Axanar Productions and Alec Peters are the ones who really screwed over Sean Tourangeau; NOT CBS/Paramount.)
It's like the ludicrous lawsuit I've read about where people are trying to sue a firearms manufacterer, because their product was used to kill someone... By that logic, if someone drinks themself to death (ie alcohol poisoning) then the distillery which produced the booze should be sued... Ludicrous...
Not trying to derail this, or make this political, but what you just said is spot on. If someone intentionally uses their Ford Mustang to run someone over, no one's going to even consider sueing Ford, so why should Beretta get sued if one of their guns is used to shoot someone? As you said, ludicrous.
The only thing gun manufacturers should be liable for is personal injury -IF- a gun explodes in someone's hand, and it can be proven that it was defective.
Shame, too, since Kraft was basically a one-man production crew. Interesting, too, that he blames Peters and Axanar for this.
Well, some people may not know this - but Tommy Kraft did do the majority of green screen composite post production work on Prelude to Axanar. I'll bet the C/P lawyers didn't think it would help their Copyright Infringement case against Axanar (and Alec Peters) if Mr. Kraft, who did the aforementioned composite work for Prelude to Axanar, was allowed to crowdfund and produce another Star Trek related fan film, while the Axanar case is still in litigation - so Mr. Kraft gets a 'friendly' C&D via Facebook; and wisely complies.
Ahhh, interesting indeed...
Yes. This little bit of information casts a whole new light on things.
If CBS is 'going after' those involved with Axanar productions; it may well be that things are not so grim for unrelated fan productions. Here's hoping.
Yeah, I'd seen that there were 'unnamed does' 'named'(ish, as in their existence acknowledged, not their identities given) in the original papers, and I'm sure the full legalese had something to do with considering them accessories/facilitators... What I find dsad, is the idea that the guy who designed the Aresand the Titan is getting black-lidted, for what he thought was a legit project to contribut to out of love of the franchise
How could Axanar (OR ANY Star Trek Fan Film) be considered 'legit' as they never received a license from CBS and EVERY fan film producer (even Alec Peters back in 2013) have said they realise CBS could come in and shut them down? A majority the Fan Film leads of other groups have said if CBS contacted them and asked them to cease production, they would. Tommy Kraft received such a request and replied.
Anyone who's done legitimate business on licensed IPs (or won a contest where they signed away their rights, etc.) KNOWS that any non-licenced project carries risk and I don't think Sean Tourangeau was unaware of this fact. I can understand why he's upset, but he's responsible for the decision he made when he designed the USS Ares for Alec Peters and Axanar Productions. He was well aware it was an unlicensed project. (And by selling models and woodcuts of the ship in their 'Donor Store' Axanar Productions and Alec Peters are the ones who really screwed over Sean Tourangeau; NOT CBS/Paramount.)
You know, as well as I do, that fan films have been around for quite a while, such as Of Gods and Men. They might not be officially licenced, but they are still legitimate projects based on a love of the franchise and a desire to tell a story, rather than to make profit or try and leverage oneself into a position, both of which Alec Peters did with the Axanar Works...
As for Sean Tourangeau, there are too many variables to comment with any certainty, but at the most lenient of circumstances, he would have been approached as a ship designer who had worked in the franchise before and asked for a ship design. Which he provided. It was Alec Peters who decided to then make money off that design, so rather unfair for Sean Tourangeau, to then get blacklisted by other elements in the franchise.
It's like the ludicrous lawsuit I've read about where people are trying to sue a firearms manufacterer, because their product was used to kill someone... By that logic, if someone drinks themself to death (ie alcohol poisoning) then the distillery which produced the booze should be sued... Ludicrous...
Unless they can prove that Sean Tourango actually knew that his design was definitely going to be used to make profit, and that he himself would profit from it as well, he should be within his rights to claim ignorance of Alec Peters' intentions, or the eventual outcome...
That's not how it works. The only true legitimate projects are those done by (or licensed by) the copyright/IP owners - and in Star Trek's case, thats Paramount for anything related to the JJ Abrams' Star Trek feature films; and CBS for anything related to existing/ new Star Trek TV or Streaming series. Don't confuse the fact that until the Axanar situation neither CBS nor Paramount singly or jointly filed an actual lawsuit against a Star Trek fan film maker or group (although they HAD informally requested one or more groups to change some aspect or NOT produce a particular script - and the fan film groups so contacted, complied) - but again, 'no legal action taken' doesn't equal 'legitimate project'. And again as I mentioned in my previous post - the majority of Star Trek fan film leaders/producers freely admit that CBS could take action at any time were they so inclined - and as Axanar found out - if you go too far in CBS eyes - they will.
As for Sean Tourangeau - The only thing CBS 'has to prove' is that he designed a ship for a non-legitimate Star Trek production that they are involved in litigation with (and Sean admitted publically that yes, he designed the USS Ares for Alec Peters and Axanar); and as a result, CBS have said to him they will not consider him for any work on the legitimate/licensed Star Trek production that CBS is producing at this time.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Shame, too, since Kraft was basically a one-man production crew. Interesting, too, that he blames Peters and Axanar for this.
Well, some people may not know this - but Tommy Kraft did do the majority of green screen composite post production work on Prelude to Axanar. I'll bet the C/P lawyers didn't think it would help their Copyright Infringement case against Axanar (and Alec Peters) if Mr. Kraft, who did the aforementioned composite work for Prelude to Axanar, was allowed to crowdfund and produce another Star Trek related fan film, while the Axanar case is still in litigation - so Mr. Kraft gets a 'friendly' C&D via Facebook; and wisely complies.
Ahhh, interesting indeed...
Yes. This little bit of information casts a whole new light on things.
If CBS is 'going after' those involved with Axanar productions; it may well be that things are not so grim for unrelated fan productions. Here's hoping.
Yeah, I'd seen that there were 'unnamed does' 'named'(ish, as in their existence acknowledged, not their identities given) in the original papers, and I'm sure the full legalese had something to do with considering them accessories/facilitators... What I find dsad, is the idea that the guy who designed the Aresand the Titan is getting black-lidted, for what he thought was a legit project to contribut to out of love of the franchise
How could Axanar (OR ANY Star Trek Fan Film) be considered 'legit' as they never received a license from CBS and EVERY fan film producer (even Alec Peters back in 2013) have said they realise CBS could come in and shut them down? A majority the Fan Film leads of other groups have said if CBS contacted them and asked them to cease production, they would. Tommy Kraft received such a request and replied.
Anyone who's done legitimate business on licensed IPs (or won a contest where they signed away their rights, etc.) KNOWS that any non-licenced project carries risk and I don't think Sean Tourangeau was unaware of this fact. I can understand why he's upset, but he's responsible for the decision he made when he designed the USS Ares for Alec Peters and Axanar Productions. He was well aware it was an unlicensed project. (And by selling models and woodcuts of the ship in their 'Donor Store' Axanar Productions and Alec Peters are the ones who really screwed over Sean Tourangeau; NOT CBS/Paramount.)
It's like the ludicrous lawsuit I've read about where people are trying to sue a firearms manufacterer, because their product was used to kill someone... By that logic, if someone drinks themself to death (ie alcohol poisoning) then the distillery which produced the booze should be sued... Ludicrous...
Not trying to derail this, or make this political, but what you just said is spot on. If someone intentionally uses their Ford Mustang to run someone over, no one's going to even consider sueing Ford, so why should Beretta get sued if one of their guns is used to shoot someone? As you said, ludicrous.
The only thing gun manufacturers should be liable for is personal injury -IF- a gun explodes in someone's hand, and it can be proven that it was defective.
Exactly... The producers of something aren't liable for how it is then used
Shame, too, since Kraft was basically a one-man production crew. Interesting, too, that he blames Peters and Axanar for this.
Well, some people may not know this - but Tommy Kraft did do the majority of green screen composite post production work on Prelude to Axanar. I'll bet the C/P lawyers didn't think it would help their Copyright Infringement case against Axanar (and Alec Peters) if Mr. Kraft, who did the aforementioned composite work for Prelude to Axanar, was allowed to crowdfund and produce another Star Trek related fan film, while the Axanar case is still in litigation - so Mr. Kraft gets a 'friendly' C&D via Facebook; and wisely complies.
Ahhh, interesting indeed...
Yes. This little bit of information casts a whole new light on things.
If CBS is 'going after' those involved with Axanar productions; it may well be that things are not so grim for unrelated fan productions. Here's hoping.
Yeah, I'd seen that there were 'unnamed does' 'named'(ish, as in their existence acknowledged, not their identities given) in the original papers, and I'm sure the full legalese had something to do with considering them accessories/facilitators... What I find dsad, is the idea that the guy who designed the Aresand the Titan is getting black-lidted, for what he thought was a legit project to contribut to out of love of the franchise
How could Axanar (OR ANY Star Trek Fan Film) be considered 'legit' as they never received a license from CBS and EVERY fan film producer (even Alec Peters back in 2013) have said they realise CBS could come in and shut them down? A majority the Fan Film leads of other groups have said if CBS contacted them and asked them to cease production, they would. Tommy Kraft received such a request and replied.
Anyone who's done legitimate business on licensed IPs (or won a contest where they signed away their rights, etc.) KNOWS that any non-licenced project carries risk and I don't think Sean Tourangeau was unaware of this fact. I can understand why he's upset, but he's responsible for the decision he made when he designed the USS Ares for Alec Peters and Axanar Productions. He was well aware it was an unlicensed project. (And by selling models and woodcuts of the ship in their 'Donor Store' Axanar Productions and Alec Peters are the ones who really screwed over Sean Tourangeau; NOT CBS/Paramount.)
You know, as well as I do, that fan films have been around for quite a while, such as Of Gods and Men. They might not be officially licenced, but they are still legitimate projects based on a love of the franchise and a desire to tell a story, rather than to make profit or try and leverage oneself into a position, both of which Alec Peters did with the Axanar Works...
As for Sean Tourangeau, there are too many variables to comment with any certainty, but at the most lenient of circumstances, he would have been approached as a ship designer who had worked in the franchise before and asked for a ship design. Which he provided. It was Alec Peters who decided to then make money off that design, so rather unfair for Sean Tourangeau, to then get blacklisted by other elements in the franchise.
It's like the ludicrous lawsuit I've read about where people are trying to sue a firearms manufacterer, because their product was used to kill someone... By that logic, if someone drinks themself to death (ie alcohol poisoning) then the distillery which produced the booze should be sued... Ludicrous...
Unless they can prove that Sean Tourango actually knew that his design was definitely going to be used to make profit, and that he himself would profit from it as well, he should be within his rights to claim ignorance of Alec Peters' intentions, or the eventual outcome...
That's not how it works. The only true legitimate projects are those done by (or licensed by) the copyright/IP owners - and in Star Trek's case, thats Paramount for anything related to the JJ Abrams' Star Trek feature films; and CBS for anything related to existing/ new Star Trek TV or Streaming series. Don't confuse the fact that until the Axanar situation neither CBS nor Paramount singly or jointly filed an actual lawsuit against a Star Trek fan film maker or group (although they HAD informally requested one or more groups to change some aspect or NOT produce a particular script - and the fan film groups so contacted, complied) - but again, 'no legal action taken' doesn't equal 'legitimate project'. And again as I mentioned in my previous post - the majority of Star Trek fan film leaders/producers freely admit that CBS could take action at any time were they so inclined - and as Axanar found out - if you go too far in CBS eyes - they will.
As for Sean Tourangeau - The only thing CBS 'has to prove' is that he designed a ship for a non-legitimate Star Trek production that they are involved in litigation with (and Sean admitted publically that yes, he designed the USS Ares for Alec Peters and Axanar); and as a result, CBS have said to him they will not consider him for any work on the legitimate/licensed Star Trek production that CBS is producing at this time.
I'm not going to debate the semantics of the definition of 'legitimate', because as I said before, fan films have existed and been produced for some time without suit from CBS/Paramount. Various Star Trek alumnus have both appeared in and produced them without studio action... On that basis, there is no reason why Sean Tourangeau should have had cause to not work on the Axanar project... I doubt CBS/Paramount would blacklist any of the actors from future works... It is that kind of heavyhandedness which will cost CBS/Paramount the support of the fanbase (who are much more loyal to the people who appeared in Star Trek, or who 'gave it its look', than to a bunch of faceless suits sitting in an office somewhere) regardless of if they are supportive of them going after Alec Peters, and weakened support will eventually hit them in the viewing figures and the wallet...
Exactly... The producers of something aren't liable for how it is then used
I'm sorry, at what point did you get the impression blacklisting was an aspect of a court of law? It's what happens when you pis s people off who have enormous power over your future.
Exactly... The producers of something aren't liable for how it is then used
I'm sorry, at what point did you get the impression blacklisting was an aspect of a court of law? It's what happens when you pis s people off who have enormous power over your future.
That comment wasn't related to the topic at hand, read the post he quoted there
Exactly... The producers of something aren't liable for how it is then used
I'm sorry, at what point did you get the impression blacklisting was an aspect of a court of law? It's what happens when you pis s people off who have enormous power over your future.
At what point did I say that I thought it was? As for your justification for it, that's horsesh1t... CBS/Paramount aren't going to blacklist actors or other major contributers to fan films, they're just dogpiling on a 'weak link' who, as I previously pointed out, could have been unaware of what Alec Peters planned for the design of the Ares. There's possibly even grounds for a lawsuit from Sean Tourangeau for Alec Peters damaging his capacity for future earnings via a misuse of material and damage to business reputation...
PS Please fix the width of your signature so it conforms to forum guidelines... It's a really nice image, but I've had to turn off everyone's signature, because every page you post on, my iPADD displays incorrectly and cuts off the right hand side of the entire page, because your sig is over-width
Where are these guidelines? My signature is considerably smaller than the limits I read and the board keeps enlarging it for reasons I don't understand.
Where are these guidelines? My signature is considerably smaller than the limits I read and the board keeps enlarging it for reasons I don't understand.
Signature/Avatar Rule Violation
The total signature size must be no larger than 650x250 pixels if it contains an image. The text in the signature may be customized in use on the forums. It is recommended that you stick with readable fonts and colors and that the size is not too large. You may mention websites and ventures that you are in some way related to, as long as they are otherwise appropriate for the community. Strong political and religious sentiments should be kept out of profiles, signatures, and other content in this community. Failure to adhere to these rules will result in an infraction, and the removal of the offending signature or avatar.
What's the effective Screen resolution of an iPad? Because I see a giant margin on both sides of the posts.
I've absolutely no idea... And absolutely, the display always shows those margins, but the sig going 'out' of the text frame, always pulls text, and other page elements out of alignment too... For example, it would only show the "Q rather than the "Quote tab... I'm at a loss to explain why, but the consistent factor, is the sigs which 'go off the side'... :-\
Where are these guidelines? My signature is considerably smaller than the limits I read and the board keeps enlarging it for reasons I don't understand.
Signature/Avatar Rule Violation
The total signature size must be no larger than 650x250 pixels if it contains an image. The text in the signature may be customized in use on the forums. It is recommended that you stick with readable fonts and colors and that the size is not too large. You may mention websites and ventures that you are in some way related to, as long as they are otherwise appropriate for the community. Strong political and religious sentiments should be kept out of profiles, signatures, and other content in this community. Failure to adhere to these rules will result in an infraction, and the removal of the offending signature or avatar.
Thanks . I'll tinker with it further. I keep finding that when I make it less than 250 pixels tall it enlarges it -- a lot -- and that causes the width to overflow.
But just so you know I'm not being a douche for the sake of it:
Hopefully I didn't imply that you were. It was an honest question to what I assumed was an honest complaint. As I said, something strange is happening because I've taken screenshots of my sig as displayed inside the forum and its BIGGER than the file I've submitted. I don't know why and it's annoying for me because it makes the image slightly blurry being blown up like that.
I'm almost always on my galaxy note 5, and both of your signatures go off my screen at about the middle point, my signature goes off screen as well, but only cuts off the Jedi character (last one on the right)
Comments
Well, some people may not know this - but Tommy Kraft did do the majority of green screen composite post production work on Prelude to Axanar. I'll bet the C/P lawyers didn't think it would help their Copyright Infringement case against Axanar (and Alec Peters) if Mr. Kraft, who did the aforementioned composite work for Prelude to Axanar, was allowed to crowdfund and produce another Star Trek related fan film, while the Axanar case is still in litigation - so Mr. Kraft gets a 'friendly' C&D via Facebook; and wisely complies.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Yes. This little bit of information casts a whole new light on things.
If CBS is 'going after' those involved with Axanar productions; it may well be that things are not so grim for unrelated fan productions. Here's hoping.
I was not comparing them. I was pointing out that CBS is not putting a blanket ban on crowd-funded fan-films. I was comparing Continues to 'Federation Rising' (the fan film CBS just warned Kraft off of making for now) as evidence that this is temporary, since Continues hasn't been given such warning by CBS. Hence, CBS are not specifically targeting crowd-funded fan films, but rather those being initiated during the lawsuit.
And I would donate to Continues, but unfortunately I'm a Sixth Form Student with almost no disposable income. The most I've 'crowdfunded' is £5 to Charity:Water a couple of months ago.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Here's the piece you missed. Second Life pays for itself by microtransactions in the form of converting real money to their fictional Linden dollars, with which you can, among other things, buy and sell player-made items. Linden dollars can also be converted back to real money. It is therefore possible to earn real money by making unlicensed digital Star Wars merch.
Same deal: You're making a personal profit off of somebody else's intellectual property without having made a contract with the owner of that IP that says you're allowed to do so.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Yeah I know who you mean and this is indeed poohy and i honestly am shocked and worried for this person very very much...
Yeah, I'd seen that there were 'unnamed does' 'named'(ish, as in their existence acknowledged, not their identities given) in the original papers, and I'm sure the full legalese had something to do with considering them accessories/facilitators... What I find dsad, is the idea that the guy who designed the Ares and the Titan is getting black-lidted, for what he thought was a legit project to contribut to out of love of the franchise
Yep.
If, as Meimeitoo said, they had to go after these things or risk losing their trademarks, modding would have never been as big as it once was. Battlefield 1942 had a huge star wars total conversion made for it back in the day, which was never shut down. Star wars: empire at war had a Stargate total conversion. And there's countless others that also would have been shut down if copyright law worked this way.
Oh and I almost forgot, almost every franchise imaginable has a mod available for minecraft.
I'm sorry, I didn't intend to suggest that you were comparing them, I was just meaning that in general, Axanar and STC are very different animals, and really cannot (or should not) be compared, simply because they are 'both fan films'...
And you don't need to justify your donations/spending to me, or anyone else, my man, my financial situation is far from ideal at the moment (and funnily enough, I can't access the Kane Family Fortune ;p ) so on that regard, I truly understand, and likewise, I have also not contributed to STC financially, but have always tried to promote it when it would be welcome, rather than shilling, and take part in the discussions on fb
Well, Warner Brothers killed a Middle-Earth mod for TES4: Oblivion (some nonsense about people confusing it for Lord of the Rings Online, as if a mod for a single-player RPG and a professionally made MMORPG are so similar that people could be confused), but that's kind of an outlier (read as "Warner Bros. are kind of dicks"). It does happen occasionally that an actually not-for-profit fan production gets shut down, but most companies, most of the time, as a rule don't.
Hell, Valve famously even let a team do a complete standalone remake of their own game Half-Life using the Source engine (the team apparently thought the official Half-Life: Source was underwhelming, and frankly I don't blame them), only asking for two things: that they take the word "Source" off the name so people don't think it's a Valve release, and that the Valve team gets first crack at playing it. It's called Black Mesa. (Valve has since even allowed the Black Mesa team to sell the still-unfinished game on Steam.)
And there's all kinds of games using the open-source FreeSpace 2 engine, such as a very faithful Babylon 5 fighter simulator called The Babylon Project.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Oh, wow... then, that conversation with CBS could (as others have said) gone quite differently. Makes me wonder if Kraft could be one of the 20 or so unnamed "John Doe"s on the Axanar suit (and, if not, if CBS quietly implied that he should back down, because there would be grounds for a second case against Kraft that shows a pattern of competition and infringement).
Still, Kraft had ties to Axanar... that does NOT quiet my fears for our buddy, the patchmaker/shipwright.
Yes. He could have zero to worry about, don't get me wrong... again, I think everybody involved with Peters needs to distance themselves, fast. The gloves are coming off, and CBS won't play nice forever.
Yeah, I proly should have mentioned that some do get shut down, but the main point I was trying to make was that lucasarts, the company they specifically mentioned as aggressive, never touched a mod that directly competed with one of their own games (the original battlefront).
The main examples I can think of for mods that got shut down involved the Aliens franchise. There was an AvP total conversion in the works for starcraft: broodwar way back in the day that I was looking forward to, until one day it got "foxed" as some people called it at the time. Fox didn't seem play around when it came to those things.
I think when Peters tried to get the case dismissed because "CBS/Paramount didn't specify what trademarks/copyrights were infringed upon", things were going to get ugly fast. The fact that CBS countered by being VERY specific says they are taking this seriously.
Lucasfilm goes back even further than gaming with that. Earliest example I know of was their agreement with Mel Brooks about Spaceballs that he could make the film as long as he didn't try to sell merch for it (which Mel Brooks, being Mel Brooks, made fun of in the movie). And that's a case where there actually is a clear fair-use justification, namely the doctrine that parody is protected speech.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
How could Axanar (OR ANY Star Trek Fan Film) be considered 'legit' as they never received a license from CBS and EVERY fan film producer (even Alec Peters back in 2013) have said they realise CBS could come in and shut them down? A majority the Fan Film leads of other groups have said if CBS contacted them and asked them to cease production, they would. Tommy Kraft received such a request and replied.
Anyone who's done legitimate business on licensed IPs (or won a contest where they signed away their rights, etc.) KNOWS that any non-licenced project carries risk and I don't think Sean Tourangeau was unaware of this fact. I can understand why he's upset, but he's responsible for the decision he made when he designed the USS Ares for Alec Peters and Axanar Productions. He was well aware it was an unlicensed project. (And by selling models and woodcuts of the ship in their 'Donor Store' Axanar Productions and Alec Peters are the ones who really screwed over Sean Tourangeau; NOT CBS/Paramount.)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
As for Sean Tourangeau, there are too many variables to comment with any certainty, but at the most lenient of circumstances, he would have been approached as a ship designer who had worked in the franchise before and asked for a ship design. Which he provided. It was Alec Peters who decided to then make money off that design, so rather unfair for Sean Tourangeau, to then get blacklisted by other elements in the franchise.
It's like the ludicrous lawsuit I've read about where people are trying to sue a firearms manufacterer, because their product was used to kill someone... By that logic, if someone drinks themself to death (ie alcohol poisoning) then the distillery which produced the booze should be sued... Ludicrous...
Unless they can prove that Sean Tourango actually knew that his design was definitely going to be used to make profit, and that he himself would profit from it as well, he should be within his rights to claim ignorance of Alec Peters' intentions, or the eventual outcome...
Not trying to derail this, or make this political, but what you just said is spot on. If someone intentionally uses their Ford Mustang to run someone over, no one's going to even consider sueing Ford, so why should Beretta get sued if one of their guns is used to shoot someone? As you said, ludicrous.
The only thing gun manufacturers should be liable for is personal injury -IF- a gun explodes in someone's hand, and it can be proven that it was defective.
That's not how it works. The only true legitimate projects are those done by (or licensed by) the copyright/IP owners - and in Star Trek's case, thats Paramount for anything related to the JJ Abrams' Star Trek feature films; and CBS for anything related to existing/ new Star Trek TV or Streaming series. Don't confuse the fact that until the Axanar situation neither CBS nor Paramount singly or jointly filed an actual lawsuit against a Star Trek fan film maker or group (although they HAD informally requested one or more groups to change some aspect or NOT produce a particular script - and the fan film groups so contacted, complied) - but again, 'no legal action taken' doesn't equal 'legitimate project'. And again as I mentioned in my previous post - the majority of Star Trek fan film leaders/producers freely admit that CBS could take action at any time were they so inclined - and as Axanar found out - if you go too far in CBS eyes - they will.
As for Sean Tourangeau - The only thing CBS 'has to prove' is that he designed a ship for a non-legitimate Star Trek production that they are involved in litigation with (and Sean admitted publically that yes, he designed the USS Ares for Alec Peters and Axanar); and as a result, CBS have said to him they will not consider him for any work on the legitimate/licensed Star Trek production that CBS is producing at this time.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I'm sorry, at what point did you get the impression blacklisting was an aspect of a court of law? It's what happens when you pis s people off who have enormous power over your future.
That comment wasn't related to the topic at hand, read the post he quoted there
PS Please fix the width of your signature so it conforms to forum guidelines... It's a really nice image, but I've had to turn off everyone's signature, because every page you post on, my iPADD displays incorrectly and cuts off the right hand side of the entire page, because your sig is over-width
Found here:
And there was a discussion on this issue fairly recently...
But if yours is under those guidelines, it must just be a glitch with the iPADD and the forum...
But just so you know I'm not being a douche for the sake of it:
A page where you didn't post...
This page...
My character Tsin'xing
Thanks
Hopefully I didn't imply that you were. It was an honest question to what I assumed was an honest complaint. As I said, something strange is happening because I've taken screenshots of my sig as displayed inside the forum and its BIGGER than the file I've submitted. I don't know why and it's annoying for me because it makes the image slightly blurry being blown up like that.