DKeith, while the Legends stuff got decanonized, it WAS undeniably under an official license and got the according degree of respect. Comparing it to Axanar does not seem fitting since Axanar was not licensed or created under any official aegis.
As for Continues and Renegades my guess is they'll be watched to see if they fold on their own after their production teams and the Trek actors involved re-evaluate the risk. If after a few weeks to a month they don't, I suspect they get lawsuits next. But if I were CBS I'd hold back for a little bit to see if after suing the big dog, the others (and affiliated actors) got the message without (another) direct confrontation.
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There is always the possibility of an internal shakeup within the CBS management team. With the announcement of the 2017 TV project they would have to be assembling a production team to do the show, so whoever got put in charge might have decided to crack down on fan projects since the TV franchise was no longer considered dead.
Another possibility is that they intend to set the show in a similar era to cash in on the popularity the reboot movies and Axanar have raised for the 23rd century era.
Beyond that there is the simple reality that the networks have always viewed Star Trek as just a means to make a quick buck. The donations to get Axanar made is money that isn't being spent on licensed merchandise. I'm honestly surprised this didn't happen sooner.
If anything, the Star Trek name needs to be stifled. I guess?
In contrast is Star Wars. The movies are resurrected. It's been kicking around several shows over the years to "keep the torch lit." More importantly, newer, younger people are drawn in as fans. Things I really don't see the official license holders of Star Trek doing. Granted, SW is a massive franchise. But I don't see the ambition to push ST for future prosperity.
(Since Simon Pegg himself thought badly of the trailer, I am withholding judgment on Beyond. But there's another thread for that discussion...)
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yeh well its their fault if they bothered to do something since Enterprise was canned and do something that isn't STUPID JAR JAR Trek related the "true" (term used for ones who dont like Jar Jars !new! vision of it fans and trek alumni alike) trek fans wouldn't donate so much money toward something that ad ears to the true trek style and meaning.
Insulting fans for not liking Trek like you like Trek is uncalled for. The reboot movies may not be the same, but like it or not they made Trek relevent again and introduced a new generation to Star Trek. Just because its not the Shat leading the crew means nothing. We needed an opening for new stories, and the way they did it provides us with a clean slate without destroying everything that came before it. An Alternate Reality is nothing new, as there were several episodes in all five of the shows that had instances of alternate realities. Why is one more so hard to accept?
They have only themselves to blame for dumping Trek in the bin and letting the farce that is paramount' take on it continue.... they cant have there cake and eat it, if it wasnt for fan productions, STO, and many many novels, reruns etc Trek would have died with Enterprise....
And that is your opinion. Not the opinion of everyone. Hell... I once saw someone on these very forums declare that anything that wasn't directly made by Gene Roddenberry is non canon. Or was it anything after TOS including the movies? Either way... the fact remains, they exist. They're Canon. Ranting about how you don't like it isn't going to change that and just makes you sound like Sheldon Cooper from Big Bang Theory in attempting to sway the decision of a company as if you're important enough of a customer by yourself.
Star Trek will live on. Fans will keep it alive, just like fans of Wing Commander have been keeping that franchise alive even though nothing new has been made since the late 90s.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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"Star Trek is a treasured franchise in which CBS and Paramount continue to produce new original content for its large universe of fans."
Right... the fans they didn't care about when they finished off Enterprise early, then letting those same fans wait several years only to release some Star Wars-like pew pew story that's set in the Trek universe.
the lawsuit illustrates that there is a place where no man has gone before, where the entertainment studios are not willing to let be occupied: crowdfunded, professional-quality films that use copyrighted "elements" like Vulcans
If they cared about their property, they would've kept JJ 'I don't understand Star Trek so I'll just add some pew pew and lens flares to a cowboy story' Abrams away from it. He's done more damage to Star Trek property, by blowing up Vulcan, changing Spock's character etc. than the fans and professionals who are doing more to keep real Trek alive than CBS has ever done for the last decade.
The fans... the property... yeah it's almost believable. Not. If this were coming from someone like Tim Russ, then it might be believable. Not when it's coming from the bunch of clowns that call themselves CBS. All they care about is profit, EVEN if that profit is made by disappointing their fans. Something this lawsuit against a fan-sponsored and supported movie proves once again.
Well...FRAK. I was already on the fence about seeing the new star trek series and the next movie with all their shenanigens...but this I think has lead me straight into not gonna bother now. Thanks CBS and paramount for working very hard to kill off the trek franchise.
With all due respect, that's rather a silly attitude. Does this mean you're never going to see a Marvel movie (Avengers, Iron Man, Captain America, et al) due to Marvel's - er - rather vigorous defense of their IP?
As for this suit, I'm afraid that by tolerating pro-quality fan productions such as STC and Renegades, CBS and Paramount may have rather shot themselves in the foot on this one. If they only "vigorously defend" their trademark when the perceived quality rises above a given level, trademark law may in fact regard it as abandoned; they might find that they would have been better off not to draw a firm line after all at this point.
Of course, that's ultimately up to the judge, assuming some sort of settlement isn't reached first, but that's kind of the way it looks from here.
I think what Continues and Renegades are doing is also wrong. Axanar got hit first because of its greater size.
Hmmm... you could be right. Curious if both Renegades and Continues will get hit next?
As I mentioned upthread, Continues has publicly stated that is is on good terms with the Powers that Be, and are supported and encouraged by them, because they (The Continues producers) have played by the rules set. Renegades, IMHO isn't in anywhere near the same league in terms of production values as Continues, and I doubt The Powers That Be would be bothered by it. Continues, I would hope would be left alone, for the mentioned reasons. I don't think Continues are doing anything wrong, and are simply continuing Roddenberry's vision out of genuine love for the series...
What a monumentally bold and completely stupid move on the part of CBS/Paramount. What is the best way to get the 50th Anniversary of Star Trek launched right? With a lawsuit, of course!
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What JJ did was in another universe and he specifically contained it somewhere else because he knows we the Star Trek fanbase have to be handled with kid gloves. He didn't wreck our childhoods and specifically set it up so that everything you know and love is intact somewhere else. But the way people have reacted has been more than mere dislike or disagreement with the creative choices, which are legitimate. It's been outright over the line hatred.
As Trekkies, we don't have our rep for blowing the smallest thing out of proportion or screening people for their POV's like Sheldon did when testing Leonard to be a roommate, for no reason. It almost makes me wonder if CBS is doing what they're doing with their new series for a reason--to minimize the damage because they know that with Trekkies they're damned if they do take a risk, damned if they don't. I've actually got to give Kurtzman points for courage now, for seeing how we treated his close colleague and giving us another try anyway.
And now we're yelling and kicking a fuss when CBS rightfully defends their IP and threatening to take our toys and go home because they should have licensed or distributed Axanar if they knew what was good for 'em, see? (Insert image of '30s gangster here.) It is okay to not like the way they've directed the franchise but are you sure they're not cautious sometimes because we're the third rail?
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We're not mad at CBS for defending their IP. We're mad that they do nothing with said IP for years, then when something made for fans, and not for profit, comes along of high quality they want to kill it.
I don't know how the new series will be, but Axanar set the bar higher than CBS may be able to reach, and I think they know it. Sad.
And again, do you think CBS wants to take creative risks when they see how we lash out?
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What JJ did was in another universe and he specifically contained it somewhere else because he knows we the Star Trek fanbase have to be handled with kid gloves. He didn't wreck our childhoods and specifically set it up so that everything you know and love is intact somewhere else. But the way people have reacted has been more than mere dislike or disagreement with the creative choices, which are legitimate. It's been outright over the line hatred.
As Trekkies, we don't have our rep for blowing the smallest thing out of proportion or screening people for their POV's like Sheldon did when testing Leonard to be a roommate, for no reason. It almost makes me wonder if CBS is doing what they're doing with their new series for a reason--to minimize the damage because they know that with Trekkies they're damned if they do take a risk, damned if they don't. I've actually got to give Kurtzman points for courage now, for seeing how we treated his close colleague and giving us another try anyway.
And now we're yelling and kicking a fuss when CBS rightfully defends their IP and threatening to take our toys and go home because they should have licensed or distributed Axanar if they knew what was good for 'em, see? (Insert image of '30s gangster here.) It is okay to not like the way they've directed the franchise but are you sure they're not cautious sometimes because we're the third rail?
I'm well aware it was in a different timeline. However, they claim they want to protect their property. That probably has to do something with upholding the image of Trek and how people perceive Trek. It doesn't matter in what timeline JJ's Trek was set, it has influenced what people consider Star Trek, especially the younger generation that may only have seen JJ's trek. Their reason, protecting their property, therefore seems completely the opposite of what they've done for the last ten years, and the last 6 years specifically by allowing JJ Abrams to completely change their 'property'.
"Star Trek is a treasured franchise in which CBS and Paramount continue to produce new original content for its large universe of fans."
Right... the fans they didn't care about when they finished off Enterprise early, then letting those same fans wait several years only to release some Star Wars-like pew pew story that's set in the Trek universe.
the lawsuit illustrates that there is a place where no man has gone before, where the entertainment studios are not willing to let be occupied: crowdfunded, professional-quality films that use copyrighted "elements" like Vulcans
If they cared about their property, they would've kept JJ 'I don't understand Star Trek so I'll just add some pew pew and lens flares to a cowboy story' Abrams away from it. He's done more damage to Star Trek property, by blowing up Vulcan, changing Spock's character etc. than the fans and professionals who are doing more to keep real Trek alive than CBS has ever done for the last decade.
The fans... the property... yeah it's almost believable. Not. If this were coming from someone like Tim Russ, then it might be believable. Not when it's coming from the bunch of clowns that call themselves CBS. All they care about is profit, EVEN if that profit is made by disappointing their fans. Something this lawsuit against a fan-sponsored and supported movie proves once again.
We lash out when presented with TRIBBLE. Is it so bad to demand a level of quality?
CBS is in the entertainment business. Their job is to entertain. If they can't manage to do that with anything better than Survivor or formulaic cop shows, then they should relinquish their Trek rights to someone who can deliver.
And if they do end up relinquishing it and something wildly acclaimed comes out of that, I'll be as happy as anyone else, but I do not feel we are *entitled* to anything. If we continue with that, I suspect the franchise dies with all potential takers too afraid of fan temper to revive it.
Funny enough, I am actually for reducing the amount of time before a work comes into the public domain, and the time frame I have in mind would actually have Trek coming out into the public domain next year. (I think the longer of the original author's life, or 50 years, is quite enough, which with Roddenberry being dead would have brought Star Trek into the public domain in 2016.) But if and until such changes pass, I have to agree with CBS that they have a right to stop a direct competitor who is poaching their talent.
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But if they know that said temper is such that it means insularity (a cap on profits and market saturation since the fanbase is not open to growth and enforces purity standards on itself--a phenomenon NOT seen to such a degree in Star Wars) and yanking support at the slightest thing (again a hit to the pocket book), that is something they will care about because it ties to dollars and cents that could be more easily and reliably had elsewhere.
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Well that's too bad. I was looking forward to Axanar more than any of the other fan-made projects. Did someone forget to pass enough latinum under the table?
Makes me sad. Was really looking forward to seeing that come to fruition. Quality isn't allowed in Star Trek anymore. Maybe CBS will come out with something...Khan Strikes Again ...or something along those lines.
There is always the possibility of an internal shakeup within the CBS management team. With the announcement of the 2017 TV project they would have to be assembling a production team to do the show, so whoever got put in charge might have decided to crack down on fan projects since the TV franchise was no longer considered dead.
Another possibility is that they intend to set the show in a similar era to cash in on the popularity the reboot movies and Axanar have raised for the 23rd century era.
Beyond that there is the simple reality that the networks have always viewed Star Trek as just a means to make a quick buck. The donations to get Axanar made is money that isn't being spent on licensed merchandise. I'm honestly surprised this didn't happen sooner.
Historically, Paramount and CBS never had issue with fan projects so long as they didn't try to sell anything such as tickets, merchandise or copies of the finished product etc.
My money is on the producers of Axanar trying to make some money off of it as the reason for the lawsuit.
Crowd funding is a sort of legal grey area. It might or might not be non-profit depending on how they spend the money they get from fans. This is what makes me suspect that this is CBS's plan B. The Axanar project got over a million from kickstarter. I don't actually think it's the quality of the film that matters. It might not be "sold" in the traditional sense, but it'd take a lot of accounting records to demonstrate where the 1M went.... Also... if(and I'm not sure Axanar was) you're making enough money to live off it and make the film as a full-time job.... that's far beyond the scope of most fan projects.
But if that was true then it might explain the decision.
Comments
As for Continues and Renegades my guess is they'll be watched to see if they fold on their own after their production teams and the Trek actors involved re-evaluate the risk. If after a few weeks to a month they don't, I suspect they get lawsuits next. But if I were CBS I'd hold back for a little bit to see if after suing the big dog, the others (and affiliated actors) got the message without (another) direct confrontation.
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Another possibility is that they intend to set the show in a similar era to cash in on the popularity the reboot movies and Axanar have raised for the 23rd century era.
Beyond that there is the simple reality that the networks have always viewed Star Trek as just a means to make a quick buck. The donations to get Axanar made is money that isn't being spent on licensed merchandise. I'm honestly surprised this didn't happen sooner.
I saw that trailer when I went to see The Force Awakens Imax/3d
As a Star Trek fan, I had no emotion about it. Is that a good thing?
Are we going to have a Captain Kirk that beats down the Klingons and say, "They didn't know who dey were TRIBBLE' wid." ?
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Insulting fans for not liking Trek like you like Trek is uncalled for. The reboot movies may not be the same, but like it or not they made Trek relevent again and introduced a new generation to Star Trek. Just because its not the Shat leading the crew means nothing. We needed an opening for new stories, and the way they did it provides us with a clean slate without destroying everything that came before it. An Alternate Reality is nothing new, as there were several episodes in all five of the shows that had instances of alternate realities. Why is one more so hard to accept?
And that is your opinion. Not the opinion of everyone. Hell... I once saw someone on these very forums declare that anything that wasn't directly made by Gene Roddenberry is non canon. Or was it anything after TOS including the movies? Either way... the fact remains, they exist. They're Canon. Ranting about how you don't like it isn't going to change that and just makes you sound like Sheldon Cooper from Big Bang Theory in attempting to sway the decision of a company as if you're important enough of a customer by yourself.
Star Trek will live on. Fans will keep it alive, just like fans of Wing Commander have been keeping that franchise alive even though nothing new has been made since the late 90s.
As to Axanar... Who knows.
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Again judging from the trailer this will very likely be the first movie since 'The Motion Picture' that I don't see in the theater.
I can't really describe how disappointed I am with Nu-Trek right now.
Axanar looked great with production values and writing likely better than what we'll get from a weekly TV show.
Right... the fans they didn't care about when they finished off Enterprise early, then letting those same fans wait several years only to release some Star Wars-like pew pew story that's set in the Trek universe.
If they cared about their property, they would've kept JJ 'I don't understand Star Trek so I'll just add some pew pew and lens flares to a cowboy story' Abrams away from it. He's done more damage to Star Trek property, by blowing up Vulcan, changing Spock's character etc. than the fans and professionals who are doing more to keep real Trek alive than CBS has ever done for the last decade.
The fans... the property... yeah it's almost believable. Not. If this were coming from someone like Tim Russ, then it might be believable. Not when it's coming from the bunch of clowns that call themselves CBS. All they care about is profit, EVEN if that profit is made by disappointing their fans. Something this lawsuit against a fan-sponsored and supported movie proves once again.
As for this suit, I'm afraid that by tolerating pro-quality fan productions such as STC and Renegades, CBS and Paramount may have rather shot themselves in the foot on this one. If they only "vigorously defend" their trademark when the perceived quality rises above a given level, trademark law may in fact regard it as abandoned; they might find that they would have been better off not to draw a firm line after all at this point.
Of course, that's ultimately up to the judge, assuming some sort of settlement isn't reached first, but that's kind of the way it looks from here.
I didn't think JJ Trek could get any worse from Into Darkness, and then I watched that trailer!
Yeah' i'll give it a miss...
As Trekkies, we don't have our rep for blowing the smallest thing out of proportion or screening people for their POV's like Sheldon did when testing Leonard to be a roommate, for no reason. It almost makes me wonder if CBS is doing what they're doing with their new series for a reason--to minimize the damage because they know that with Trekkies they're damned if they do take a risk, damned if they don't. I've actually got to give Kurtzman points for courage now, for seeing how we treated his close colleague and giving us another try anyway.
And now we're yelling and kicking a fuss when CBS rightfully defends their IP and threatening to take our toys and go home because they should have licensed or distributed Axanar if they knew what was good for 'em, see? (Insert image of '30s gangster here.) It is okay to not like the way they've directed the franchise but are you sure they're not cautious sometimes because we're the third rail?
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I don't know how the new series will be, but Axanar set the bar higher than CBS may be able to reach, and I think they know it. Sad.
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Bingo.
I'm well aware it was in a different timeline. However, they claim they want to protect their property. That probably has to do something with upholding the image of Trek and how people perceive Trek. It doesn't matter in what timeline JJ's Trek was set, it has influenced what people consider Star Trek, especially the younger generation that may only have seen JJ's trek. Their reason, protecting their property, therefore seems completely the opposite of what they've done for the last ten years, and the last 6 years specifically by allowing JJ Abrams to completely change their 'property'.
Well said.
CBS is in the entertainment business. Their job is to entertain. If they can't manage to do that with anything better than Survivor or formulaic cop shows, then they should relinquish their Trek rights to someone who can deliver.
Funny enough, I am actually for reducing the amount of time before a work comes into the public domain, and the time frame I have in mind would actually have Trek coming out into the public domain next year. (I think the longer of the original author's life, or 50 years, is quite enough, which with Roddenberry being dead would have brought Star Trek into the public domain in 2016.) But if and until such changes pass, I have to agree with CBS that they have a right to stop a direct competitor who is poaching their talent.
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But if that was true then it might explain the decision.
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