It was Yoda who said it. And when 900 years old you age... seen a lot you have.
And guess how long the Sith had been in hiding prior to TPM? A thousand years. Meaning no one alive, including Yoda, had ever personally faced one. Everything they thought they knew about the Sith was urban legend at that point. So, without an actual Sith ever confirming the "rule of 2"(in canon), we have no idea whether it was real/legit or just something the Jedi thought was true. And even if an actual Sith confirms it, that is/was a self imposed rule. It's not a law of the universe that an arrogant Sith(imagine that!) couldn't choose to break.
Yeah, it may have only existed as a way for Sith lords to avoid getting killed by their apprentices.... granted Plageius and Sidious did anyways.... but that gives even more reason for them to want to avoid assassination. And well, it'd be interesting to see that explored. It seems like a facet of the Sith that might have an interesting story behind it. Especially when you take into account how there are, or used to be, other Dark Side Force wielders who didn't use that sort of rule. for example, the Nightsisters of Dathomir.
It was Yoda who said it. And when 900 years old you age... seen a lot you have.
And guess how long the Sith had been in hiding prior to TPM? A thousand years. Meaning no one alive, including Yoda, had ever personally faced one. Everything they thought they knew about the Sith was urban legend at that point. So, without an actual Sith ever confirming the "rule of 2"(in canon), we have no idea whether it was real/legit or just something the Jedi thought was true. And even if an actual Sith confirms it, that is/was a self imposed rule. It's not a law of the universe that an arrogant Sith(imagine that!) couldn't choose to break.
Yeah, it may have only existed as a way for Sith lords to avoid getting killed by their apprentices.... granted Plageius and Sidious did anyways.... but that gives even more reason for them to want to avoid assassination. And well, it'd be interesting to see that explored. It seems like a facet of the Sith that might have an interesting story behind it. Especially when you take into account how there are, or used to be, other Dark Side Force wielders who didn't use that sort of rule. for example, the Nightsisters of Dathomir.
I'm pretty sure it was explained in the "Darth Bane" book(not canon). But seeing as how the rule is completely "voluntary" for the master, I wouldn't be surprised to see someone break it at some point going forward in the movies.
We still could have had female stormtroopers before. Only 5 or so speak in three films.
Could be but considering the age these movies were made - no, there are no evil women in the Empire Women are good from the bottom of their hearts and best serve as damsels in distress
The new movie is very, very "PC". Not that it's a bad thing in this case, I appreciate diversity amongst villians. It takes a bit away from the comical "men's club" a evil intergalactic dictatorship usually is.
I'd find it amusing if the majority of officers were male and the majority of frontline grunts were female .
I see the effect of the 70's and 80's on the OT but in the overall picture of a galaxy spanning Empire I think a Discworld quote sums it up 'black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green'.
There's no reason for the Empire to be sexist, racist, or speciesist.
They aren't the British Empire or the Third Reich, they don't have the population centres for that, they're the Roman Empire, it's the only way you'd get an Empire the size of the Galactic one.
I just chalk it up to Tarkin being sexist, racist, and speciesist as to why the Death Star consists of white, male, Humans (for the non-helmeted roles). Other than the DS we only see a few odd Star Destroyer bridges and small squads in the other films. I haven't really got an explanation (in universe) for that as Vader (as Anakin) or the Emperor have never been seen to be (and indeed are mostly the exact opposit of) sexist, racist, and speciesist in the PT or TCW.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,602Community Moderator
Before the EU got non-canonized, it was explained that the Empire didn't like non humans, and viewed females as less capable than males. Stories about how hard characters like Thrawn and Daala had it come to mind. While they did buck the system, it wasn't easy. Thrawn made Admiral and eventually Grand Admiral because he was a strategic genius. The fact he was Chiss made things harder for him in the eyes of the Imperial Navy. Likewise Admiral Daala didn't have it easy going up the ranks because she was a woman, and I believe viewed as not being as strong or capable as a male officer. She showed them.
Outside of the books, we have no reason why we haven't seen female and alien officers in the Empire. Just small population centers. However we can surmise that the Empire probably did not like aliens based on their attitude towards them.
I wonder if her last name... may in fact be Skywalker? For being untrained, she's showing some serious power, and we know that Skywalkers have always been quite strong in the Force. And the cryptic line from one of the trailers with Luke saying that the Force was strong in his family, and the fact that Rey was drawn to Anakin's lightsaber...
Makes you wonder... as if she wasn't a Skywalker, why would that particular lightsaber have such a profound effect on her?
I've been thinking that, too. One of my earlier replies in the thread goes into different points for it. Maybe... Maybe we'll have a rehashed, "I'm a Jedi, like my father before me" moment?
/ducks
/hides
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,602Community Moderator
Probably TOO much reference for that, but if it does turn out Rey is Luke's daughter...
I'd find it amusing if the majority of officers were male and the majority of frontline grunts were female .
I see the effect of the 70's and 80's on the OT but in the overall picture of a galaxy spanning Empire I think a Discworld quote sums it up 'black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green'.
There's no reason for the Empire to be sexist, racist, or speciesist.
They aren't the British Empire or the Third Reich, they don't have the population centres for that, they're the Roman Empire, it's the only way you'd get an Empire the size of the Galactic one.
I just chalk it up to Tarkin being sexist, racist, and speciesist as to why the Death Star consists of white, male, Humans (for the non-helmeted roles). Other than the DS we only see a few odd Star Destroyer bridges and small squads in the other films. I haven't really got an explanation (in universe) for that as Vader (as Anakin) or the Emperor have never been seen to be (and indeed are mostly the exact opposit of) sexist, racist, and speciesist in the PT or TCW.
Before the EU got non-canonized, it was explained that the Empire didn't like non humans, and viewed females as less capable than males. Stories about how hard characters like Thrawn and Daala had it come to mind. While they did buck the system, it wasn't easy. Thrawn made Admiral and eventually Grand Admiral because he was a strategic genius. The fact he was Chiss made things harder for him in the eyes of the Imperial Navy. Likewise Admiral Daala didn't have it easy going up the ranks because she was a woman, and I believe viewed as not being as strong or capable as a male officer. She showed them.
Outside of the books, we have no reason why we haven't seen female and alien officers in the Empire. Just small population centers. However we can surmise that the Empire probably did not like aliens based on their attitude towards them.
As I said, I think it's great to have a diverse villian cast. I do however indeed think, in line with the old EU it seems, that the Empire is speciesist (specist?). We never see aliens at all, not even in TFA and the officers in TESB seem very reluctant to accept Vader inviting the headhunters. They may just be opposed to headhunters, but I do think the whole Empire is very human centric.
Then again, the new emperor (anyone else thinks he looks like Azog the defiler and is really, really displaced visually? It is one of the few points that I really disliked about TFA) doesn't look very human.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I'd find it amusing if the majority of officers were male and the majority of frontline grunts were female .
I see the effect of the 70's and 80's on the OT but in the overall picture of a galaxy spanning Empire I think a Discworld quote sums it up 'black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green'.
There's no reason for the Empire to be sexist, racist, or speciesist.
They aren't the British Empire or the Third Reich, they don't have the population centres for that, they're the Roman Empire, it's the only way you'd get an Empire the size of the Galactic one.
I just chalk it up to Tarkin being sexist, racist, and speciesist as to why the Death Star consists of white, male, Humans (for the non-helmeted roles). Other than the DS we only see a few odd Star Destroyer bridges and small squads in the other films. I haven't really got an explanation (in universe) for that as Vader (as Anakin) or the Emperor have never been seen to be (and indeed are mostly the exact opposit of) sexist, racist, and speciesist in the PT or TCW.
Before the EU got non-canonized, it was explained that the Empire didn't like non humans, and viewed females as less capable than males. Stories about how hard characters like Thrawn and Daala had it come to mind. While they did buck the system, it wasn't easy. Thrawn made Admiral and eventually Grand Admiral because he was a strategic genius. The fact he was Chiss made things harder for him in the eyes of the Imperial Navy. Likewise Admiral Daala didn't have it easy going up the ranks because she was a woman, and I believe viewed as not being as strong or capable as a male officer. She showed them.
Outside of the books, we have no reason why we haven't seen female and alien officers in the Empire. Just small population centers. However we can surmise that the Empire probably did not like aliens based on their attitude towards them.
As I said, I think it's great to have a diverse villian cast. I do however indeed think, in line with the old EU it seems, that the Empire is speciesist (specist?). We never see aliens at all, not even in TFA and the officers in TESB seem very reluctant to accept Vader inviting the headhunters. They may just be opposed to headhunters, but I do think the whole Empire is very human centric.
Then again, the new emperor (anyone else thinks he looks like Azog the defiler and is really, really displaced visually? It is one of the few points that I really disliked about TFA) doesn't look very human.
Well, assuming the Darth Plagieous theories are correct (a very big if, IMO), Darth Plagieous was a Muun, so that would explain Snoke's appearance.
I'd find it amusing if the majority of officers were male and the majority of frontline grunts were female .
I see the effect of the 70's and 80's on the OT but in the overall picture of a galaxy spanning Empire I think a Discworld quote sums it up 'black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green'.
There's no reason for the Empire to be sexist, racist, or speciesist.
They aren't the British Empire or the Third Reich, they don't have the population centres for that, they're the Roman Empire, it's the only way you'd get an Empire the size of the Galactic one.
I just chalk it up to Tarkin being sexist, racist, and speciesist as to why the Death Star consists of white, male, Humans (for the non-helmeted roles). Other than the DS we only see a few odd Star Destroyer bridges and small squads in the other films. I haven't really got an explanation (in universe) for that as Vader (as Anakin) or the Emperor have never been seen to be (and indeed are mostly the exact opposit of) sexist, racist, and speciesist in the PT or TCW.
Before the EU got non-canonized, it was explained that the Empire didn't like non humans, and viewed females as less capable than males. Stories about how hard characters like Thrawn and Daala had it come to mind. While they did buck the system, it wasn't easy. Thrawn made Admiral and eventually Grand Admiral because he was a strategic genius. The fact he was Chiss made things harder for him in the eyes of the Imperial Navy. Likewise Admiral Daala didn't have it easy going up the ranks because she was a woman, and I believe viewed as not being as strong or capable as a male officer. She showed them.
Outside of the books, we have no reason why we haven't seen female and alien officers in the Empire. Just small population centers. However we can surmise that the Empire probably did not like aliens based on their attitude towards them.
As I said, I think it's great to have a diverse villian cast. I do however indeed think, in line with the old EU it seems, that the Empire is speciesist (specist?). We never see aliens at all, not even in TFA and the officers in TESB seem very reluctant to accept Vader inviting the headhunters. They may just be opposed to headhunters, but I do think the whole Empire is very human centric.
Then again, the new emperor (anyone else thinks he looks like Azog the defiler and is really, really displaced visually? It is one of the few points that I really disliked about TFA) doesn't look very human.
Well, assuming the Darth Plagieous theories are correct (a very big if, IMO), Darth Plagieous was a Muun, so that would explain Snoke's appearance.
Darth Plagieus has not appeared in canon(other than possibly in TFA), so he can be any species they want him to be. The novel you are referencing is old EU, no longer canon.
I'd find it amusing if the majority of officers were male and the majority of frontline grunts were female .
I see the effect of the 70's and 80's on the OT but in the overall picture of a galaxy spanning Empire I think a Discworld quote sums it up 'black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green'.
There's no reason for the Empire to be sexist, racist, or speciesist.
They aren't the British Empire or the Third Reich, they don't have the population centres for that, they're the Roman Empire, it's the only way you'd get an Empire the size of the Galactic one.
I just chalk it up to Tarkin being sexist, racist, and speciesist as to why the Death Star consists of white, male, Humans (for the non-helmeted roles). Other than the DS we only see a few odd Star Destroyer bridges and small squads in the other films. I haven't really got an explanation (in universe) for that as Vader (as Anakin) or the Emperor have never been seen to be (and indeed are mostly the exact opposit of) sexist, racist, and speciesist in the PT or TCW.
Before the EU got non-canonized, it was explained that the Empire didn't like non humans, and viewed females as less capable than males. Stories about how hard characters like Thrawn and Daala had it come to mind. While they did buck the system, it wasn't easy. Thrawn made Admiral and eventually Grand Admiral because he was a strategic genius. The fact he was Chiss made things harder for him in the eyes of the Imperial Navy. Likewise Admiral Daala didn't have it easy going up the ranks because she was a woman, and I believe viewed as not being as strong or capable as a male officer. She showed them.
Outside of the books, we have no reason why we haven't seen female and alien officers in the Empire. Just small population centers. However we can surmise that the Empire probably did not like aliens based on their attitude towards them.
As I said, I think it's great to have a diverse villian cast. I do however indeed think, in line with the old EU it seems, that the Empire is speciesist (specist?). We never see aliens at all, not even in TFA and the officers in TESB seem very reluctant to accept Vader inviting the headhunters. They may just be opposed to headhunters, but I do think the whole Empire is very human centric.
Then again, the new emperor (anyone else thinks he looks like Azog the defiler and is really, really displaced visually? It is one of the few points that I really disliked about TFA) doesn't look very human.
Well, assuming the Darth Plagieous theories are correct (a very big if, IMO), Darth Plagieous was a Muun, so that would explain Snoke's appearance.
Darth Plagieus has not appeared in canon(other than possibly in TFA), so he can be any species they want him to be. The novel you are referencing is old EU, no longer canon.
That doesn't mean they wouldn't use his Old EU appearance. For example, the canon novel 'aftermath' reference the Gilliad-Pallaeon Peace Treaty, which was previously part of the Old EU.
Now, as I said, I don't think Snoke is Plagieus, but if he were and he were portrayed as a Muun, that would explain the appearance in TFA.
Actually, it was Pellaeon-Gavrisom. And the treaty is now the 'Galactic Concordance', with very little in common with its Legends counterpart.
Ah, okay. One of the sources I saw referred to it as the Pallaeon Gavrisom Treaty (and used the original comic book panel), which is where I got the information. Guess my source was mistaken.
So much has been discussed in this thread and I have read/talked about this movie in different places, so hopefully I'm not repeating things here. Anyway, a minor critique about Rey's character. Overall, I liked her, a lot. However, she literally had no character flaws. She was too perfect. She got herself out of every problem she was in, and even freed herself after being captured. No character in the previous movies was that perfect, and they all needed each other's help.
And I know the reason why; there has been a major shortage of female heroes in pop culture. That's not to say there haven't been any, but action movies/adventures/etc have always been dominated by male heroes, with the females being a small minority. I get the issue, and I'm glad it's slowly changing. But Rey seems like an over-correction. Instead of simply creating a female hero that can go toe to toe with the previous male heroes in Star Wars, they basically made her a super-hero with no flaws.
But because I enjoy her performance and like her character, that doesn't really bother me as much as it possibly should
Thus far, while I like Rey, I'm not as attached to her as I was to Luke, not yet.
I would actually like to see Rey die at the end of the trilogy, in a reversal of what happened in the prior trilogy. SHE dies--doesn't get her happy fairy tale ending--and Kylo survives what I hope to be his redemption and takedown of Snoke. And then he has to LIVE with what he's done. Which if I were the one writing it, would not be an easy "All's forgiven," but a whole lot of internal guilt and a whole lot of external mistrust that he is going to have to deal with for the rest of his life. But if he can face that without running, without taking the easy way out, without resorting to his drugs of choice (pain and rage), then that would be much greater strength than what he thinks he has now as a Knight of Ren.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Thus far, while I like Rey, I'm not as attached to her as I was to Luke, not yet.
I would actually like to see Rey die at the end of the trilogy, in a reversal of what happened in the prior trilogy. SHE dies--doesn't get her happy fairy tale ending--and Kylo survives what I hope to be his redemption and takedown of Snoke. And then he has to LIVE with what he's done. Which if I were the one writing it, would not be an easy "All's forgiven," but a whole lot of internal guilt and a whole lot of external mistrust that he is going to have to deal with for the rest of his life. But if he can face that without running, without taking the easy way out, without resorting to his drugs of choice (pain and rage), then that would be much greater strength than what he thinks he has now as a Knight of Ren.
That would probably be a more interesting story, but I think that Disney is planning on banking on Rey and Finn for a long time and would rather keep selling her merch than kill her off.
I wonder if her last name... may in fact be Skywalker? For being untrained, she's showing some serious power, and we know that Skywalkers have always been quite strong in the Force. And the cryptic line from one of the trailers with Luke saying that the Force was strong in his family, and the fact that Rey was drawn to Anakin's lightsaber...
Makes you wonder... as if she wasn't a Skywalker, why would that particular lightsaber have such a profound effect on her?
There's a more complicated theory that basically says she's Luke's aunt. Here's an explanation I typed up earlier:
Well, think about the origin of Vader. His mother didn't get pregnant the traditional way... how wasn't directly explained, but Darth Sidious claimed his master Darth Plagueis had the ability to "create life" with the Force(and maybe Sidious learned it from him). Thus Anakin might have been created by the Sith.
What does it have to do with Rey? Maybe she's related to Luke... but as his aunt. If Snoke is Plagueis, then maybe he repeated the experiment. Maybe he created a female clone of Anakin?
It'd explain the lightsaber thing. It wasn't LUKE's lightsaber, he used it but it wasn't really HIS... it was Anakin's Lightsaber.
Also it sets up the second movie for an "I am your father" moment between Snoke and Rey.
Luke's aunt, and being younger than him... a little TOO farfetched IMO. And if I remember correctly... Sidious said he killed Plageius and when he told Anakin of the power Plageius had and it being lost...
I think Snoke is something new. What bothers me with the current canon though is that in the prequel movies it was established that there are always 2 Sith. Master and Apprentice. No more. No less. Yet we have Dark Force Users crawling out of the woodwork in Rebels in the form of these Inquisitors, not to mention the fact that Ashoka survived the purge (due to having gone rogue herself with a self imposed exile and is kinda not a Jedi anymore) and two more Force Users as main characters. Now here we are with Ep 7, and pretty much more Sith that cropped up within the last 30 years, one of which is entirely possible that he existed for some time, perhaps even during the rule of the Emperor, right under his nose.
WHERE DID HE COME FROM?!
I will say this about the unconventional Crossguard Lightsaber... Kylo Ren did wield it effectively. And that tends to be the hallmark of most Dark Siders. A lot of them wield unconventional blades. Maul had the saber staff, Dooku had his fencer blade, and now Kylo Ren has the longsword. Sidious and Vader had conventional blades.
The Sith were merely one order of darksiders, there are plenty of other darksiders like Asajj Ventress, the Nightsisters, etc.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
@thegrandnagus1 , Darth Vader got killed at the last part of Return of the Jedi, but he still has the power of the Green Side when it comes to moving merchandise all these years later. If they kill Rey, they just need to save her death until near the end of the last movie.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
You'd almost think that indicates descent from Leia, considering that she's royalty...if Leia was pregnant with her when Kylo went berserk...hmmm. Kylo might know what the gender of the unborn child was supposed to be even though if he never saw her, he'd have no way to really predict her facial features to know who he was facing.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
(...)
Vader's identity in the originals was somewhat foreshadowed by his very name. "Vader" is similar to the German word for father.
(...)
It may be similar to the German "Vater", but "Vader" is also the literal Dutch term for father
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Outside of the books, we have no reason why we haven't seen female and alien officers in the Empire. Just small population centers. However we can surmise that the Empire probably did not like aliens based on their attitude towards them.
In a Galaxy where the numbers of Humans and non-humans seem roughly equal, and neither Sidious or Vader would have any real reason for a non-human policy. Sidious' two PT henchmen were aliens (an Unbaran and Mos Adwhatshisname).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Thus far, while I like Rey, I'm not as attached to her as I was to Luke, not yet.
I'm the opposite. After one film I found Luke to be dull. True, I never invested in him in any way after the first film either, but he just wasn't likeable in ANH. Rey on the other hand I do like, she feels like a fuller character.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I'm the opposite. After one film I found Luke to be dull. True, I never invested in him in any way after the first film either, but he just wasn't likeable in ANH. Rey on the other hand I do like, she feels like a fuller character.
But you have to keep in mind that "A New Hope" is a concluded movie. It was made I think without sequels in mind as even if they were written (which I doubt) nobody knew wether the whole thing would take off. Luke Skywalker is just the farmboy who overcomes the odds and saves the universe, he doesn't even use his force abilities to actually fight (which is very in the spirit of the light side, however) and when it ends on a happy note the movie is over. Rey is written with the compiled knowledge and intention of at least making a trilogy if not much much more of her.
I personally am still rather indifferent of the characters. While I really liked the movie and enjoy it, I see too much wasted opportunity with Finn and Rey is just Luke 2.0 to me (and probably she's his daughter, so that might be okay). Kylo isn't even very interesting to me as he's too much rage filled emo teenager at this moment, but that might change. I see potential but fear that they just make him Darth Vader 2.0.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
You'd almost think that indicates descent from Leia, considering that she's royalty...if Leia was pregnant with her when Kylo went berserk...hmmm. Kylo might know what the gender of the unborn child was supposed to be even though if he never saw her, he'd have no way to really predict her facial features to know who he was facing.
Yeah, but.... Leia... isn't exactly being treated like royalty now... She was Princess of Alderaan.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0qLzsIhUMk
But yeah... EXPLODE! So.... Not really a princess now.
Then there's the parallels angle. Vader's identity was a secret to Luke. Then, SURPRISE REVEAL! "I AM your father!"
Speaking of which, Leia's father was king of what? Weren't they part of a republic?
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Speaking of which, Leia's father was king of what? Weren't they part of a republic?
Well, Leia's actual father was Anakin who was not royalty. Her mother wasn't really royalty either. Padme Amidala was "queen" of Naboo, but that was just a title and she wasn't even wealthy really. But it does seem to be why the King and Queen of Alderaan decided to adopt her. Why did Alderaan have a King and Queen at all? Enh... the Old Republic seemed to be a coalition of whatever governments were willing to work together to form a coalition.
The monarchies were elected. It's not that out there. The Vatican does the same thing.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Well, Leia's actual father was Anakin who was not royalty. Her mother wasn't really royalty either. Padme Amidala was "queen" of Naboo, but that was just a title and she wasn't even wealthy really. But it does seem to be why the King and Queen of Alderaan decided to adopt her. Why did Alderaan have a King and Queen at all? Enh... the Old Republic seemed to be a coalition of whatever governments were willing to work together to form a coalition.
I know that Anakin is supposed to be her real father, but I usually ignore the prequel story when I talk about Star Wars as the whole virgin birth, Naboo and Midichlorian thing is so unbelievable stupid in my opinion that they just as well could have wiped that from canon I was indeed referring to her line in "A New Hope" referring to her father and that probably a reference to her adoptive parents (I'm not sure if at that time the whole Skywalker arc was already planned, I don't think so to be honest )
Indeed I came to the same conclusion as you. The "Enh..." part, of course. As it really is a bit weird
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Well, Leia's actual father was Anakin who was not royalty. Her mother wasn't really royalty either. Padme Amidala was "queen" of Naboo, but that was just a title and she wasn't even wealthy really. But it does seem to be why the King and Queen of Alderaan decided to adopt her. Why did Alderaan have a King and Queen at all? Enh... the Old Republic seemed to be a coalition of whatever governments were willing to work together to form a coalition.
I know that Anakin is supposed to be her real father, but I usually ignore the prequel story when I talk about Star Wars as the whole virgin birth, Naboo and Midichlorian thing is so unbelievable stupid in my opinion that they just as well could have wiped that from canon
The prequels have nothing to do with it. The original trilogy made it perfectly clear Vader was her father.
The prequels have nothing to do with it. The original trilogy made it perfectly clear Vader was her father.
That's right of course, but I was referring to Padme Amidala and Naboo
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
I'm pretty sure it was explained in the "Darth Bane" book(not canon). But seeing as how the rule is completely "voluntary" for the master, I wouldn't be surprised to see someone break it at some point going forward in the movies.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I'd find it amusing if the majority of officers were male and the majority of frontline grunts were female
I see the effect of the 70's and 80's on the OT but in the overall picture of a galaxy spanning Empire I think a Discworld quote sums it up 'black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green'.
There's no reason for the Empire to be sexist, racist, or speciesist.
They aren't the British Empire or the Third Reich, they don't have the population centres for that, they're the Roman Empire, it's the only way you'd get an Empire the size of the Galactic one.
I just chalk it up to Tarkin being sexist, racist, and speciesist as to why the Death Star consists of white, male, Humans (for the non-helmeted roles). Other than the DS we only see a few odd Star Destroyer bridges and small squads in the other films. I haven't really got an explanation (in universe) for that as Vader (as Anakin) or the Emperor have never been seen to be (and indeed are mostly the exact opposit of) sexist, racist, and speciesist in the PT or TCW.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Outside of the books, we have no reason why we haven't seen female and alien officers in the Empire. Just small population centers. However we can surmise that the Empire probably did not like aliens based on their attitude towards them.
I've been thinking that, too. One of my earlier replies in the thread goes into different points for it. Maybe... Maybe we'll have a rehashed, "I'm a Jedi, like my father before me" moment?
/ducks
/hides
As I said, I think it's great to have a diverse villian cast. I do however indeed think, in line with the old EU it seems, that the Empire is speciesist (specist?). We never see aliens at all, not even in TFA and the officers in TESB seem very reluctant to accept Vader inviting the headhunters. They may just be opposed to headhunters, but I do think the whole Empire is very human centric.
Then again, the new emperor (anyone else thinks he looks like Azog the defiler and is really, really displaced visually? It is one of the few points that I really disliked about TFA) doesn't look very human.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Well, assuming the Darth Plagieous theories are correct (a very big if, IMO), Darth Plagieous was a Muun, so that would explain Snoke's appearance.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Darth Plagieus has not appeared in canon(other than possibly in TFA), so he can be any species they want him to be. The novel you are referencing is old EU, no longer canon.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
That doesn't mean they wouldn't use his Old EU appearance. For example, the canon novel 'aftermath' reference the Gilliad-Pallaeon Peace Treaty, which was previously part of the Old EU.
Now, as I said, I don't think Snoke is Plagieus, but if he were and he were portrayed as a Muun, that would explain the appearance in TFA.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Ah, okay. One of the sources I saw referred to it as the Pallaeon Gavrisom Treaty (and used the original comic book panel), which is where I got the information. Guess my source was mistaken.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
And I know the reason why; there has been a major shortage of female heroes in pop culture. That's not to say there haven't been any, but action movies/adventures/etc have always been dominated by male heroes, with the females being a small minority. I get the issue, and I'm glad it's slowly changing. But Rey seems like an over-correction. Instead of simply creating a female hero that can go toe to toe with the previous male heroes in Star Wars, they basically made her a super-hero with no flaws.
But because I enjoy her performance and like her character, that doesn't really bother me as much as it possibly should
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I would actually like to see Rey die at the end of the trilogy, in a reversal of what happened in the prior trilogy. SHE dies--doesn't get her happy fairy tale ending--and Kylo survives what I hope to be his redemption and takedown of Snoke. And then he has to LIVE with what he's done. Which if I were the one writing it, would not be an easy "All's forgiven," but a whole lot of internal guilt and a whole lot of external mistrust that he is going to have to deal with for the rest of his life. But if he can face that without running, without taking the easy way out, without resorting to his drugs of choice (pain and rage), then that would be much greater strength than what he thinks he has now as a Knight of Ren.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
That would probably be a more interesting story, but I think that Disney is planning on banking on Rey and Finn for a long time and would rather keep selling her merch than kill her off.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
The Sith were merely one order of darksiders, there are plenty of other darksiders like Asajj Ventress, the Nightsisters, etc.
Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.
I dare you to do better.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Vader's identity in the originals was somewhat foreshadowed by his very name. "Vader" is similar to the German word for father.
Rey.... is Spanish for "king"... and often used in a metaphorical sense. Of course, that raises the question: "King of what?"....
My character Tsin'xing
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
It may be similar to the German "Vater", but "Vader" is also the literal Dutch term for father
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
In a Galaxy where the numbers of Humans and non-humans seem roughly equal, and neither Sidious or Vader would have any real reason for a non-human policy. Sidious' two PT henchmen were aliens (an Unbaran and Mos Adwhatshisname).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I'm the opposite. After one film I found Luke to be dull. True, I never invested in him in any way after the first film either, but he just wasn't likeable in ANH. Rey on the other hand I do like, she feels like a fuller character.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
But you have to keep in mind that "A New Hope" is a concluded movie. It was made I think without sequels in mind as even if they were written (which I doubt) nobody knew wether the whole thing would take off. Luke Skywalker is just the farmboy who overcomes the odds and saves the universe, he doesn't even use his force abilities to actually fight (which is very in the spirit of the light side, however) and when it ends on a happy note the movie is over. Rey is written with the compiled knowledge and intention of at least making a trilogy if not much much more of her.
I personally am still rather indifferent of the characters. While I really liked the movie and enjoy it, I see too much wasted opportunity with Finn and Rey is just Luke 2.0 to me (and probably she's his daughter, so that might be okay). Kylo isn't even very interesting to me as he's too much rage filled emo teenager at this moment, but that might change. I see potential but fear that they just make him Darth Vader 2.0.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
But yeah... EXPLODE! So.... Not really a princess now.
Then there's the parallels angle. Vader's identity was a secret to Luke. Then, SURPRISE REVEAL! "I AM your father!"
So.... I am your king? To who? Kylo?
My character Tsin'xing
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
My character Tsin'xing
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I know that Anakin is supposed to be her real father, but I usually ignore the prequel story when I talk about Star Wars as the whole virgin birth, Naboo and Midichlorian thing is so unbelievable stupid in my opinion that they just as well could have wiped that from canon
Indeed I came to the same conclusion as you. The "Enh..." part, of course. As it really is a bit weird
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
The prequels have nothing to do with it. The original trilogy made it perfectly clear Vader was her father.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
That's right of course, but I was referring to Padme Amidala and Naboo
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!