Trendy, as a piece of constructive criticism, I would agree that it needs a better weapon layout at T6, and for players to be expected to purchase it. We have quite a few options available now that offer far better weapon layouts with ships, both the Jem'hadar Dreadnought, and the Narcine Carrier both are set with 4/3. The ships do not thus far offer enough damage, (even elite ones) to offset the need for another foreweapon.
Please pass along that it needs the 4/3 weapon setup or a 4/4. Thanks
4/3 Weapon would make it better but thats just one of this Ships Issues, the Boff layout is also more than Questionable,
a few slight changes and it would be more than ok, for example
Lt Tactical to LtCom Tactical while downgrading the Lt Universal to a Ensign Universal
(Console Layout should be 4 Tactical, 4 Engineering, 2 Science or at LEAST a fourth Tac Console on the Fleet Version)
with such slight changes the ship would be appealing for way more People, right now its just...something for some people, while many if not most will pass on it.
I will buy this ship if you change the layout of the BOFF's to the following:
Make the LT Science an Ensign Science slot, turn the LT Universal into a LT CMR Universal. Problem solved. Now I can choose to make this ship more tactically oriented, more Engineer oriented or more Science Oriented.
So now the Starship Design Team admits what players have been saying all along - the end result of this 'contest' was basically pre-planned to be the 'new' Jupiter, leaving us to wonder (or in some cases, believe with smug certainty) if, in fact, the voting was always rigged so that 'Omega', the most Jupiter-like of the eight designs, was always going to win.
A good Starship Trait doesn't necessarily make up for that.
Though, as Kazabok asked, I do wonder if we'll see the Callisto (named after the Science Vessel destroyed in "Revelations", I presume) T6 Escort as a playable ship (or even as our first *gasp* T6 equivilent Small Craft). It I like, it reminds me of the 'Federation Scout Ship' Data piloted in "Insurrection".
Callisto is also one of Jupiter's moons, which is probably how the pet got the name since its the pet of the Jupiter ship. It's a cute kind of clever lol
Honestly? im addicted to trek hopelessly. I honestly work hard to improve my lot in life ever so much to hopefully one day justify a lifetime account. the account certainly has been around for the lifetime of this game. Back in launch beta times things were interesting. I wished i could have subbed every month F2p has altered the game for the better in many ways.
cryptic support are still great people. when i accidentally deleted my primary tac because of reading and misunderstanding an update they restored my veteran defiant (which has gone to the c store sicne the veteran thing changed).
So i have great reverence for the whole team. I just am fuzzy on why the traits. as they are make the jupiter.. honkin super carrier it seems to be a near identical cousin to the atrox. ... I mean at this point can i trade my blue bomber for a jupe? It was kinda weird.. to me the Kitty launch had such a stake in the federation meta.. I guess mirroring the diversity of the kdf's orion and gorn vessels.
but that was another time. Romulans heralded that a major species could join either side and frankly at this point in the story.. i wonder the point of the split at all.
Thing is.. T6 carrier that everyone with enough grinding zen can get is awfully close to.. all the other stuff. it doesent pop out. it doesent seem to be different at all compaired to the lobi and lockbox ships.
Lockbox/lobi ships being so exsotic should be a merit of thier species and origons but when you have the only heavy combat carriers available from a 500 million ec sale 800 lobi crystal transaction. its literally putting the vary best at the top of the grinding and money scale.
Is the C store the new ghetto? is that were we are going here? I mean if your going to shake up the status quo.. (which you guys always have done) PVE balance vs the ship balance has been great with a tiny exception in closed beta when they were a little weak. Why not have the jupiter be that heavy carrier at t6 reflect a new type of carrier? i mean all the races got three flavors of command cruiser, pilot ships, and what have you why not a 3 fore 3 after carrier with 3 bays?
or 4 fighter only bays.. or two frig and two fighter bays and spread the wealth to the other races? sure it might be a pain to balance but this teams been balancing and upping the stakes on vpe for years its nothing you guys cant do.
Instead of an "Escort Carrier" we have a "Carrier Escort."
I see it's also a typically incomplete ship, I'll be sure to add it to my collection as soon as I muscle the venerable fleet system up to shipyard 4, I'm at 2 now so don't spend all those future dollars in one place Cryptic, as you never learn. I can't be the only one.
Feel free to release a complete fleet level version in a 9 pack as soon as you get a clue.
Trendy, as a piece of constructive criticism, I would agree that it needs a better weapon layout at T6, and for players to be expected to purchase it. We have quite a few options available now that offer far better weapon layouts with ships, both the Jem'hadar Dreadnought, and the Narcine Carrier both are set with 4/3. The ships do not thus far offer enough damage, (even elite ones) to offset the need for another foreweapon.
Please pass along that it needs the 4/3 weapon setup or a 4/4. Thanks
4/3 Weapon would make it better but thats just one of this Ships Issues, the Boff layout is also more than Questionable,
a few slight changes and it would be more than ok, for example
Lt Tactical to LtCom Tactical while downgrading the Lt Universal to a Ensign Universal
(Console Layout should be 4 Tactical, 4 Engineering, 2 Science or at LEAST a fourth Tac Console on the Fleet Version)
with such slight changes the ship would be appealing for way more People, right now its just...something for some people, while many if not most will pass on it.
Might have been a viable ship had it had a good boff layout, but as it is, the ship is ugly, has only 6 weapons AND has a horrible boff layout.
Horrible all round, really.
I like it, especially the new class of hangar pets, the Callisto light escorts. One question remains though. Why would this craft have warp engines if they are supposed to be launched from a carrier?
Because it is the FRIGATE hangar pet. The KDF can launch BoP from their carriers. The Romulans can launch Drone Ships from their Scimitars.
I think I agree with the folks who say that Command seating would be more appropriate for a carrier than Intel, especially if the area buffs from boff Command skills apply to pets.
Now that you mention it, I can kinda scratch my head at Intel over Command. Rally Point is a godsend for pets, and the only carriers with Command are the command cruisers.
Exactly, maybe it is my bad that i have only one i way how to play the carriers : BFAW+rally point (or shield sphere)+anchored+good resist. But with this T6 Jupiter boff layout I have no idea how this play effectively...
I will buy this ship if you change the layout of the BOFF's to the following:
Make the LT Science an Ensign Science slot, turn the LT Universal into a LT CMR Universal. Problem solved. Now I can choose to make this ship more tactically oriented, more Engineer oriented or more Science Oriented.
Thank you.
I could get behind this. Still keeps it sci heavy but gives it a little more variety.
As it is ... The FEDs already have a couple of T6 sci ship alternatives which likely will drive the demand down.
And if you want fighters on a FED sci ship ... just wait til the T6 vesta comes out as you know it will eventually.
Now on KDF or ROM side ... It would be a huge hit, so when the other faction models finally come out ... betting those do well.
The only true advantage that carrier craft would have in a space battle would be higher maneuverability. Star Wars showcased that the large powerful ship to ship weapons couldn't target the agile small craft. That said, Star Trek has always shown superior accuracy for small objects.
That said there is a place for high mobility smaller craft.
Odd enough carriers while not the first go to for ship to ship combat would be ideal for attacking planetary targets where using a ship's full weaponry would be overkill, thus fulfilling your ship to shore analogy.
(...)
Star Wars uses ballistic weapons though. Star Trek weapons are (mostly) highly sophisticated, continious beam weapons with a 360 degree field of fire and no small craft could put out enough power to generate a shield able to take even a single hit. Small combat craft smaller than a B'Rel/Defiant make really no sense in Star Trek. Ships can focus their main weapons to target a single object as big as a 1930's autombile from orbit, they can even stun people with their ship weapons.
STO has them for gameplay reasons, I get that. But fighters in Star Trek are nonsense.
I believe I said that.
Star Trek has had numerous instances of dealing with small objects, from the Enterprise accidentally tearing apart Captain Christopher's F-104 Starfighter (hilarious naming instance) to the Enterprise-D MDKing the Lysian Command's attack pods.
However it is incorrect that Star Wars uses ballistic weapons. Blasters and Lasers, and Turbolasers and SUPERlasers. But poor fire control. Maybe you're thinking of Battlestar Galactica or Mass Effect.
It probably helps that Star Trek also uses FTL computers as well.
You're also incorrect that no small craft could generate a shield sufficient to block a single hit. There are numerous instances of small craft taking shots from cap ships. Worf's shuttle in Darmok, Danube class Runabouts throughout DS9's run, as well as the Peregrine, many vessels in Voyager including of course what may be the most powerful shuttle in history the Delta Flyer. Especially for warp capable shuttles that have their own Matter Anti Matter reactors, generating a shield that keeps them from insta-frying against a larger ship is pretty normal. One on one they can't have a hope of victory of course (barring intel like Weyoun's in Treachery, Faith, and the Great River) but they won't be instantly incinerated either.
^ But Klingons and Romulans need to do scientific research, Trendy. They should be mapping stars and studying nebulae, not charting the unknown possibilities of dps.
Well let's be honest for the Klingons they map stars to look for new places to conquer and they study nebula as a means of increasing their dps.
After some discussion, we finally settled on making a Carrier. Starfleet players have access to plenty of Escort and Cruiser options, but not very many Science ships and even fewer Carriers. This gave us a perfect opportunity to fill that gap.
Great! So keep filling it in with a T6 Nebula revamp. It's an obvious canon fan favorite, and therefore $ for you.
Also why it turns so slow: it's gigantic. It's the largest Starfleet ship in the game. Carriers in the real world are not known for their agility.
LOL the funny thing in all of this is that in space there is no friction, with the slightest impulse even the biggest ship can turn in a dime.
Lack of atmosphere does not negate mass and inertia. Even consider the mass reducing effect of impulse and warp engines, relatively speaking a high mass ship would have the lowest turn rate compared to a smaller one. The Scimitar as big as it is doesn't have an extreme amount of mass, and its agility is achieved through multiple high power engines around the hull.
There doesn't exist a world where this Jupiter is going to be more agile than a Defiant.
Not sure if I'd buy it - Grandpa Spyral needs more than five engineering powers, I've discovered - but that looks like a fun ship to build and fly, regardless. I wonder how small its going to make my Excelsior look.
("Remember when the Excelsior was a big ship? Pepperidge Farm remembers.")
I remember it was then immediately outsized by a small Japanese gentleman.
nstead dreadnoughts were made obsolete by battlecruisers. Carriers were a surprise in World War II and went on to become the premiere vessel.
The single battle where the Battlecruiser proved its worth was the Falklands, where Fisher's new ships chased down German cruisers. Outside of that, they proved disastrous. See Jutland, Denmark Strait, North Cape.
Fair fair. But dreadnoughts in naval battles never lived up to their hype.
Turn rate of six degrees? This is not a science ship. And don't insult the players by pretending this Cryptic dev's epic fail is 'community-designed'. This is Cryptic dev's epic fail-designed. The only involvement by the community was to vote on the skin. If this was 'community-designed', it would not have such an EPIC FAIL turn rate. Science Boff skills do not have a 250 degree firing arc, as anyone who has ever played this game knows.
My suggestion is to force Cryptic devs to actually play STO for a change.
Well if its any conciliation the Vo'quv has 5. The Atrox has 5. The Kar'Fi has 8 but its an archaic ship completely outdated.
The lockbox ships do somewhat better, but this is not a lockbox ship. Its stats and pets and seating make it the best carrier by a mile compared to anything else. Oh, and the Romulans? They don't even have a carrier. So when it comes to T6 ships, there is little or no lack of choice playing fed.
To paraphrase Grunt, "Romulans don't need a carrier, they've got a Scimitar!"
A Romulan carrier would be fascinating though seriously, a cloaked carrier and a cloaked fighter wing.
so now ive calmed down a bit, time for some constructive criticism ^_^
ok so while i feel carriers could indeed be pretty dam good ships and dish out the pain it is currently ALWAYS going to stumble into one major problem, and thats to do with its primary method of damage application, its fighters,
Currently while they do a decent amount of DPS by themselves the main problem is the surviveability of said fighters with the over saturation of AOE damage ability's like Beam fire at will and of course the bane of ALL fighters regardless if someone is attempting to shoot the fighters down, warpcore breaches that fighters just LOVE to go and take a closer look at. until AI for fighters is improves i can not say i really recommend ANY carriers at all and the turn rate is just way to slow to rely on a lot of sci Boff powers.
aside from the kamakazi fighter problem, as with ALOT of other folks i am totally stumped at the decision to make the ship an Intel spec rather than a command spec, which this ship and its console ability seem to just scream at me although i have a feeling that the T6 oddy will be taking that role in the next load of ships to be released.
PS: why is it whenever we get the reasoning behind why there are so few ships released for KDF and Romulans released THIS sketch always comes to mind.
Ah, warp core breaches. I lose more fighters. It would be nice if they would get that immunity to core breaches that we get on the Pilot track. Or if they could hide in an allied shield bubble. It's especially noticeable in an event like the Mirror Invasion when you're swarmed with ships.
I feel, personally, as a "community designed" ship, this should be a free ship, possibly Anniversary or Winter Event, if not an free unlock outright... Also, should have at least 4/3 if not 4/4 weapons slots. And if its meant for fleet support, shouldn't it have command boff slots, not intel?
Also, the KDF and RR need a lot more ship options. Starfleet gets all the love, and I think that is a large factor in why there seems to be fewer KDF and RR players around.
I've actually been trying to design my own "Command Carrier" on paper, for the past year. Designed to be about 1/3 bigger than the Odyssey, but nearly as agile. Its meant to act as flagship for a fleet, coordinating fleet and fighter movements, while also having its own science labs, and the facilities to manufacture large components and perform limited repairs to other vessels. Might sound kind of OP, but its not really meant for in game, just my own enjoyment.
Um...the inverse of that is that every ship they ever design with community input is a ship they can't make a profit off of. Which means they'll ask our input less.
federation shipdesign tells any hostile alien that if they take out one of those broomsticks, they can win
now this carrier has 4 broomsticks
( except for Defiant, it is the only ship which look like made for battle and not a broomsticksrack )
Well that's logical as it's designed for battle. Instead of a multi-mission deep space exploration platform like most Starfleet Vessels. Also note that the Defiant has the shortest range of all Starfleet Vessels.
Trendy, as a piece of constructive criticism, I would agree that it needs a better weapon layout at T6, and for players to be expected to purchase it. We have quite a few options available now that offer far better weapon layouts with ships, both the Jem'hadar Dreadnought, and the Narcine Carrier both are set with 4/3. The ships do not thus far offer enough damage, (even elite ones) to offset the need for another foreweapon.
Please pass along that it needs the 4/3 weapon setup or a 4/4. Thanks
Are those really viable options considering price and availability though? On the other hand in order to justify the expenditure f lobi/lockboxes/EC on the exchange those ships have to retain a certain advantage.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Honestly, the first stage had me excited like hardly anything else in the game up to that point - Getting to cast my vote in choosing the ship design... And seeing a reincarnation of the ol' Jupes... It got me cheering on Omega, as it progressed through the "tournament". And then it won, and the design was beautiful... But that's where it ended. I guess it's my fault, for I made the greatest mistake one can made: to assume. I assumed that, since the process was so nicely described in steps as "Intro - Design - Model - Build - Launch", we would get to vote on the other aspects of the ship too. Selection of several boff layouts - vote! Selection of several console layouts - vote! Command or intel - vote! Special console, Mastery trait, Frigate pet specs - vote, vote, vote. I cannot blame anyone for not doing it that way in the end - it's understandable, especially if there are some time constraints like the business plan of releasing the ship at a certain time... But still, it has left a strange void... Like we were only allowed to choose the one thing that - from the gameplay viewpoint - matters the least: How the thing looks like. But not what the thing actually *is* under all that beautiful exterior. At least to me, it shows that at the moment, superficial stuff is as far as we are allowed to be involved, but no further...
Well, I guess I should stop comparing reality to my expectations and just accept it like it is, huh?
So this ship is basically a fatter slower less powerful science ship, doesn't look like it has SST or a secondary deflector OR SA (ffs, even the science Oddy, a CRUISER, has SA). And it has escort pets that use DHCs. Cryptic. Have you not learned yet that pets (especially frigate class pets) that use DHCs DON'T BLOODY WORK. Their AI basically has them fly around in circles firing turrets all day long. Look at the B'rothl BoP pets. The Elite Jem Bug ship pets. More or less every single pet that Cryptic has released that uses DHCs doesn't have the AI to back it up.
Now if you gave them the AI of the Vaadwaur ships, then they'd be incredibly epically awesome. But no. Seriously. That AI is PERFECT for DHC pets. Strafing attack runs followed by follow through then turn around for another pass. If you have NPCs that can do that, why not give it to the pets that need it?
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
(...)
This is a Star Trek game originally designed with only a Federation faction. The game devs didn't have to add a Klingon or a Romulan faction. They did so because they wanted to. So you should all be thankful that you even have an Alt faction, and not whine and complain even after Trendy says
(...)
IIRC they had to. They didn't want to, but playable Klingon faction was forced by CBS.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Honestly, the first stage had me excited like hardly anything else in the game up to that point - Getting to cast my vote in choosing the ship design... And seeing a reincarnation of the ol' Jupes... It got me cheering on Omega, as it progressed through the "tournament". And then it won, and the design was beautiful... But that's where it ended. I guess it's my fault, for I made the greatest mistake one can made: to assume. I assumed that, since the process was so nicely described in steps as "Intro - Design - Model - Build - Launch", we would get to vote on the other aspects of the ship too. Selection of several boff layouts - vote! Selection of several console layouts - vote! Command or intel - vote! Special console, Mastery trait, Frigate pet specs - vote, vote, vote. I cannot blame anyone for not doing it that way in the end - it's understandable, especially if there are some time constraints like the business plan of releasing the ship at a certain time... But still, it has left a strange void... Like we were only allowed to choose the one thing that - from the gameplay viewpoint - matters the least: How the thing looks like. But not what the thing actually *is* under all that beautiful exterior. At least to me, it shows that at the moment, superficial stuff is as far as we are allowed to be involved, but no further...
Well, I guess I should stop comparing reality to my expectations and just accept it like it is, huh?
Actually now that you mention it I was thinking the same.
But Cryptic has traditionally been pretty strict on the BOFF layouts since they want each ship to fit a specific niche, niches organized by their BOFF seating. Which is sad since many ships have seating contradicting their canon depictions as a result.
So this ship is basically a fatter slower less powerful science ship, doesn't look like it has SST or a secondary deflector OR SA (ffs, even the science Oddy, a CRUISER, has SA). And it has escort pets that use DHCs. Cryptic. Have you not learned yet that pets (especially frigate class pets) that use DHCs DON'T BLOODY WORK. Their AI basically has them fly around in circles firing turrets all day long. Look at the B'rothl BoP pets. The Elite Jem Bug ship pets. More or less every single pet that Cryptic has released that uses DHCs doesn't have the AI to back it up.
Now if you gave them the AI of the Vaadwaur ships, then they'd be incredibly epically awesome. But no. Seriously. That AI is PERFECT for DHC pets. Strafing attack runs followed by follow through then turn around for another pass. If you have NPCs that can do that, why not give it to the pets that need it?
Damn straight.
The Delta Quadrant ships in general, the Vaadwaur and the Hazari have the best AI in the game for using cannons.
Sub-System targeting sucks. I'd rather have cruiser commands, or even nothing at all.
It would be one thing if they had innates that were more than just subsystem targeting 1. A tier 6 ship should at least have Subsystem Targeting 3. Or if Subsystem targeting was compatible with cannons.
OR if the subsystem targeting also applied to the pets.
(...)
This is a Star Trek game originally designed with only a Federation faction. The game devs didn't have to add a Klingon or a Romulan faction. They did so because they wanted to. So you should all be thankful that you even have an Alt faction, and not whine and complain even after Trendy says
(...)
IIRC they had to. They didn't want to, but playable Klingon faction was forced by CBS.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
If I recall the KDF faction was a demand of the fans. Originally Klingons were implemented as a PvP faction, then filled out as an actual faction over time. But that wasn't a CBS thing to my knowledge. Keep in mind that this game was highly rushed after the previous developer Perpetual basically didn't produce product for a couple of years. It was taken on by Cryptic who then used the Cryptic engine to be able to skip a lot of development to get it out the door faster.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
(...)
This is a Star Trek game originally designed with only a Federation faction. The game devs didn't have to add a Klingon or a Romulan faction. They did so because they wanted to. So you should all be thankful that you even have an Alt faction, and not whine and complain even after Trendy says
(...)
IIRC they had to. They didn't want to, but playable Klingon faction was forced by CBS.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Not correcting, but source please.
Also that doesn't explain Romulans.
I am very disappointed in the face that this is a science ship. But its not even the science part that gets me, its the 3/3 weapon slots for a ship this big. It should have at LEAST 4/3 weapon slots and a command spot if it is going to be this big. Also, seeing as the Federation has plenty of science vessels, why not make this into a Engineering or even better a Tactical vessel that has a carrier to it?
On the other side, I do like the new carrier pets that are being added; its something that is hard to update.
3/3 weapons? Really? On a ship that massive at Tier 6? At tier 6 we got cruisers and escorts fielding 5 fore, at Tier 5 we even have that. Since tier 4 my tactical officer has recieved ships with better weapon loadouts, more hull, and general great improvements. My fellow science players on the other hand have gotten what boils down to a Tier 4 science ship with slightly better hull and bridge layout, sometimes with a fancy costume.
This ship, going by the size comparison to the intrepid tweeted the other day. is massive. As big if not bigger than an Odyssey and easily twice the mass. So why 3/3 why not finally give science characters that little bit of DPS they've been lacking for nearly 6 years and give them 4/3? It's certainly not game breaking. As a carrier, as a ship this massive, it should easily field a 4/3 if not a 4/4 loadout.
On an unrelated note, the Callisto model should replace the Yellowstones that are called in by the pilot Reinforcements Squadron
you wouldn't happen to have a link to that pic, would you? =p
I really like the design of the new Jupiter. Sure beats the "Cruise" ship design of the old Jupiter you see in missions.
My only concerns are as follows:
1. Design symmetry. Will the lower nacelles position be adjustable? How about removable? I just think the ship would look more aesthetically pleasing than the current fixed position the lower nacelles are in now. Wish Star Fleet would get away from the notion that larger means more nacelles.
2. Only 3 Fore / 3 Aft weapons slots? On a ship as LARGE as the Jupiter is described to be? I would have thought a dreadnought would have a large number of armaments, 4/3 at least, 4/4 even. To be fair I would also increase the KDF Vo'quv Carrier to match the Jupiter's weapons slots and increase the Scimitar to 5/4. With the additional slots I would dump the carriers ability to mount dual cannons.
In general dreadnoughts should represent ships with MASSIVE fire power potential. Don't want to change the 3/3 weapons slot configuration? Fine, how about adding fixed front & aft 180 degree torp launchers that can't be removed. Do something to dreadnoughts that give them the appearance at least they're formidable death machines the moniker "Dreadnought" implies they are.
This ship has a console layout is ripped right off the caitian carrier while the fleet version uses the same layout as the T5U fleet caitian and the T5U fleet Vo'quv.
The Boff layout is also swiped from the caitian carrier with the Lieutenant Commander science switched to a Lieutenant Science and a Lieutenant Universal.
The Lieutenant Commander Engineering/Intelligence seat that might have provided some survivability can't because of the Intelligence add-on, and all the damage boosts that come with it.
So that Lieutenant Universal that could have got a Tactical officer for a second copy of Tactical Team and Beam-Fire-At-Will or a Science officer for more DPS has to go to an Engineer so you don't pop as soon as you get a dirty look.
The frigate pet is for just this ship and its fleet version and it is a monster.
Having five weapons on a frigate hasn't been done since the Fer'jai and it had two torpedoes and a mine laucher, plus the mine and one of the torpedoes share a 15-second cooldown.
Add in the fact that its got both quad and dual cannons with two turrets it vastly outguns both the KDF only frigates (the Fer'jai and the Bird-of-Prey, which only gets three weapons!) and has more weapons then any of the faction-free frigates (the Plesh Brek, Qulash, Mesh Weaver and Jem'hadar-Attack-Ship only have four weapons).
Top it off with a trait that is useless with its frigate pets since they have their own torpedo ability. Plus a console that gives yet another source of temporary hull points.
I like the look of it but the size from, what I hear, makes me think of the Scimitar and its issues of getting stuck/caught etc though.
So thank you for the eye-candy but no thanks, not interested in a Fed ship that wasn't asked for, isn't needed and that doesn't have a KDF or Rom counterpart.
"Starfleet players have access to plenty of Escort and Cruiser options, but not very many Science ships and even fewer Carriers."
What game are these people playing? A good chunk of the community has been screaming for more KDF and ROM stuff for years and they give us yet another FED gimmick.
Number of KDF (T6) with SA : 0 (T5u) : 4 (3 Dyson) = 4 Total No secondary def.
Number of Rom (T6) with SA : 0 (T5u) : 3 (Dyson) = 3 Total (Dyson only) No secondary def.
Number of FED (T6) with SA : 3 (T5u) : 10 (3 Dyson) = 13 Total
The message is clear: play Fed or GTFO.
I was actually hopeful for something new like a four gun 3-4 bay carrier with command, but instead it turns out to be another over-sized cruiser with a few bays, no tac, and a horrible boff layout for support. If you want to make a Tac, Eng, or Sci carrier; than do it. This muddled, mish-mash of a layout is really horrible. It seems like nothing more than a Caitian carrier re-skin. I generally like the way this game is going the last few seasons, but y'all dropped the ball on this one.
(Just scanned the z-store for numbers, let me know if I missed anything)
Comments
4/3 Weapon would make it better but thats just one of this Ships Issues, the Boff layout is also more than Questionable,
a few slight changes and it would be more than ok, for example
Bridge Officer Stations: 1 Lieutenant Engineering, 1 Lieutenant Commander Universal/Command, 1 Lieutenant Science, 1 Commander Engineering, 1 Lieutenant Universal
or
Bridge Officer Stations: 1 Lieutenant Tactical, 1 Lieutenant Commander Universal/Command, 1 Lieutenant Science, 1 Commander Tactical, 1 Lieutenant Universal
or AT LEAST
Lt Tactical to LtCom Tactical while downgrading the Lt Universal to a Ensign Universal
(Console Layout should be 4 Tactical, 4 Engineering, 2 Science or at LEAST a fourth Tac Console on the Fleet Version)
with such slight changes the ship would be appealing for way more People, right now its just...something for some people, while many if not most will pass on it.
Make the LT Science an Ensign Science slot, turn the LT Universal into a LT CMR Universal. Problem solved. Now I can choose to make this ship more tactically oriented, more Engineer oriented or more Science Oriented.
Thank you.
Callisto is also one of Jupiter's moons, which is probably how the pet got the name since its the pet of the Jupiter ship. It's a cute kind of clever lol
cryptic support are still great people. when i accidentally deleted my primary tac because of reading and misunderstanding an update they restored my veteran defiant (which has gone to the c store sicne the veteran thing changed).
So i have great reverence for the whole team. I just am fuzzy on why the traits. as they are make the jupiter.. honkin super carrier it seems to be a near identical cousin to the atrox. ... I mean at this point can i trade my blue bomber for a jupe? It was kinda weird.. to me the Kitty launch had such a stake in the federation meta.. I guess mirroring the diversity of the kdf's orion and gorn vessels.
but that was another time. Romulans heralded that a major species could join either side and frankly at this point in the story.. i wonder the point of the split at all.
Thing is.. T6 carrier that everyone with enough grinding zen can get is awfully close to.. all the other stuff. it doesent pop out. it doesent seem to be different at all compaired to the lobi and lockbox ships.
Lockbox/lobi ships being so exsotic should be a merit of thier species and origons but when you have the only heavy combat carriers available from a 500 million ec sale 800 lobi crystal transaction. its literally putting the vary best at the top of the grinding and money scale.
Is the C store the new ghetto? is that were we are going here? I mean if your going to shake up the status quo.. (which you guys always have done) PVE balance vs the ship balance has been great with a tiny exception in closed beta when they were a little weak. Why not have the jupiter be that heavy carrier at t6 reflect a new type of carrier? i mean all the races got three flavors of command cruiser, pilot ships, and what have you why not a 3 fore 3 after carrier with 3 bays?
or 4 fighter only bays.. or two frig and two fighter bays and spread the wealth to the other races? sure it might be a pain to balance but this teams been balancing and upping the stakes on vpe for years its nothing you guys cant do.
THANK YOU
Instead of an "Escort Carrier" we have a "Carrier Escort."
I see it's also a typically incomplete ship, I'll be sure to add it to my collection as soon as I muscle the venerable fleet system up to shipyard 4, I'm at 2 now so don't spend all those future dollars in one place Cryptic, as you never learn. I can't be the only one.
Feel free to release a complete fleet level version in a 9 pack as soon as you get a clue.
Command and Pilot ships FTW.
Might have been a viable ship had it had a good boff layout, but as it is, the ship is ugly, has only 6 weapons AND has a horrible boff layout.
Horrible all round, really.
Will the hanger pets be usable in other ships?
Because it is the FRIGATE hangar pet. The KDF can launch BoP from their carriers. The Romulans can launch Drone Ships from their Scimitars.
Mine Trap Supporter
Exactly, maybe it is my bad that i have only one i way how to play the carriers : BFAW+rally point (or shield sphere)+anchored+good resist. But with this T6 Jupiter boff layout I have no idea how this play effectively...
I could get behind this. Still keeps it sci heavy but gives it a little more variety.
As it is ... The FEDs already have a couple of T6 sci ship alternatives which likely will drive the demand down.
And if you want fighters on a FED sci ship ... just wait til the T6 vesta comes out as you know it will eventually.
Now on KDF or ROM side ... It would be a huge hit, so when the other faction models finally come out ... betting those do well.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
--Red Annorax
This picture just made me realize that Nick Blood (Lance Hunter on Agents of SHIELD) and John DeLancie look alike.
Ahh. Yeah I see it now. It's actually kind of an Aquarius Peregrine fusion, but yeah that's clearly a sister ship to the Aquarius.
I believe I said that.
Star Trek has had numerous instances of dealing with small objects, from the Enterprise accidentally tearing apart Captain Christopher's F-104 Starfighter (hilarious naming instance) to the Enterprise-D MDKing the Lysian Command's attack pods.
However it is incorrect that Star Wars uses ballistic weapons. Blasters and Lasers, and Turbolasers and SUPERlasers. But poor fire control. Maybe you're thinking of Battlestar Galactica or Mass Effect.
It probably helps that Star Trek also uses FTL computers as well.
You're also incorrect that no small craft could generate a shield sufficient to block a single hit. There are numerous instances of small craft taking shots from cap ships. Worf's shuttle in Darmok, Danube class Runabouts throughout DS9's run, as well as the Peregrine, many vessels in Voyager including of course what may be the most powerful shuttle in history the Delta Flyer. Especially for warp capable shuttles that have their own Matter Anti Matter reactors, generating a shield that keeps them from insta-frying against a larger ship is pretty normal. One on one they can't have a hope of victory of course (barring intel like Weyoun's in Treachery, Faith, and the Great River) but they won't be instantly incinerated either. Well let's be honest for the Klingons they map stars to look for new places to conquer and they study nebula as a means of increasing their dps.
T6 Nebula is money.
Definitely not...but they're very fast in the top speed game.
Lack of atmosphere does not negate mass and inertia. Even consider the mass reducing effect of impulse and warp engines, relatively speaking a high mass ship would have the lowest turn rate compared to a smaller one. The Scimitar as big as it is doesn't have an extreme amount of mass, and its agility is achieved through multiple high power engines around the hull.
There doesn't exist a world where this Jupiter is going to be more agile than a Defiant.
I remember it was then immediately outsized by a small Japanese gentleman.
Fair fair. But dreadnoughts in naval battles never lived up to their hype.
To paraphrase Grunt, "Romulans don't need a carrier, they've got a Scimitar!"
A Romulan carrier would be fascinating though seriously, a cloaked carrier and a cloaked fighter wing.
Ah, warp core breaches. I lose more fighters. It would be nice if they would get that immunity to core breaches that we get on the Pilot track. Or if they could hide in an allied shield bubble. It's especially noticeable in an event like the Mirror Invasion when you're swarmed with ships.
Um...the inverse of that is that every ship they ever design with community input is a ship they can't make a profit off of. Which means they'll ask our input less.
Well that's logical as it's designed for battle. Instead of a multi-mission deep space exploration platform like most Starfleet Vessels. Also note that the Defiant has the shortest range of all Starfleet Vessels.
Are those really viable options considering price and availability though? On the other hand in order to justify the expenditure f lobi/lockboxes/EC on the exchange those ships have to retain a certain advantage.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Honestly, the first stage had me excited like hardly anything else in the game up to that point - Getting to cast my vote in choosing the ship design... And seeing a reincarnation of the ol' Jupes... It got me cheering on Omega, as it progressed through the "tournament". And then it won, and the design was beautiful... But that's where it ended. I guess it's my fault, for I made the greatest mistake one can made: to assume. I assumed that, since the process was so nicely described in steps as "Intro - Design - Model - Build - Launch", we would get to vote on the other aspects of the ship too. Selection of several boff layouts - vote! Selection of several console layouts - vote! Command or intel - vote! Special console, Mastery trait, Frigate pet specs - vote, vote, vote. I cannot blame anyone for not doing it that way in the end - it's understandable, especially if there are some time constraints like the business plan of releasing the ship at a certain time... But still, it has left a strange void... Like we were only allowed to choose the one thing that - from the gameplay viewpoint - matters the least: How the thing looks like. But not what the thing actually *is* under all that beautiful exterior. At least to me, it shows that at the moment, superficial stuff is as far as we are allowed to be involved, but no further...
Well, I guess I should stop comparing reality to my expectations and just accept it like it is, huh?
Now if you gave them the AI of the Vaadwaur ships, then they'd be incredibly epically awesome. But no. Seriously. That AI is PERFECT for DHC pets. Strafing attack runs followed by follow through then turn around for another pass. If you have NPCs that can do that, why not give it to the pets that need it?
IIRC they had to. They didn't want to, but playable Klingon faction was forced by CBS.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Actually now that you mention it I was thinking the same.
But Cryptic has traditionally been pretty strict on the BOFF layouts since they want each ship to fit a specific niche, niches organized by their BOFF seating. Which is sad since many ships have seating contradicting their canon depictions as a result.
Damn straight.
The Delta Quadrant ships in general, the Vaadwaur and the Hazari have the best AI in the game for using cannons.
It would be one thing if they had innates that were more than just subsystem targeting 1. A tier 6 ship should at least have Subsystem Targeting 3. Or if Subsystem targeting was compatible with cannons.
OR if the subsystem targeting also applied to the pets.
If I recall the KDF faction was a demand of the fans. Originally Klingons were implemented as a PvP faction, then filled out as an actual faction over time. But that wasn't a CBS thing to my knowledge. Keep in mind that this game was highly rushed after the previous developer Perpetual basically didn't produce product for a couple of years. It was taken on by Cryptic who then used the Cryptic engine to be able to skip a lot of development to get it out the door faster.
Not correcting, but source please.
Also that doesn't explain Romulans.
Join the Deltas today!
On the other side, I do like the new carrier pets that are being added; its something that is hard to update.
you wouldn't happen to have a link to that pic, would you? =p
My only concerns are as follows:
1. Design symmetry. Will the lower nacelles position be adjustable? How about removable? I just think the ship would look more aesthetically pleasing than the current fixed position the lower nacelles are in now. Wish Star Fleet would get away from the notion that larger means more nacelles.
2. Only 3 Fore / 3 Aft weapons slots? On a ship as LARGE as the Jupiter is described to be? I would have thought a dreadnought would have a large number of armaments, 4/3 at least, 4/4 even. To be fair I would also increase the KDF Vo'quv Carrier to match the Jupiter's weapons slots and increase the Scimitar to 5/4. With the additional slots I would dump the carriers ability to mount dual cannons.
In general dreadnoughts should represent ships with MASSIVE fire power potential. Don't want to change the 3/3 weapons slot configuration? Fine, how about adding fixed front & aft 180 degree torp launchers that can't be removed. Do something to dreadnoughts that give them the appearance at least they're formidable death machines the moniker "Dreadnought" implies they are.
The Boff layout is also swiped from the caitian carrier with the Lieutenant Commander science switched to a Lieutenant Science and a Lieutenant Universal.
The Lieutenant Commander Engineering/Intelligence seat that might have provided some survivability can't because of the Intelligence add-on, and all the damage boosts that come with it.
So that Lieutenant Universal that could have got a Tactical officer for a second copy of Tactical Team and Beam-Fire-At-Will or a Science officer for more DPS has to go to an Engineer so you don't pop as soon as you get a dirty look.
The frigate pet is for just this ship and its fleet version and it is a monster.
Having five weapons on a frigate hasn't been done since the Fer'jai and it had two torpedoes and a mine laucher, plus the mine and one of the torpedoes share a 15-second cooldown.
Add in the fact that its got both quad and dual cannons with two turrets it vastly outguns both the KDF only frigates (the Fer'jai and the Bird-of-Prey, which only gets three weapons!) and has more weapons then any of the faction-free frigates (the Plesh Brek, Qulash, Mesh Weaver and Jem'hadar-Attack-Ship only have four weapons).
Top it off with a trait that is useless with its frigate pets since they have their own torpedo ability. Plus a console that gives yet another source of temporary hull points.
I like the look of it but the size from, what I hear, makes me think of the Scimitar and its issues of getting stuck/caught etc though.
So thank you for the eye-candy but no thanks, not interested in a Fed ship that wasn't asked for, isn't needed and that doesn't have a KDF or Rom counterpart.
What game are these people playing? A good chunk of the community has been screaming for more KDF and ROM stuff for years and they give us yet another FED gimmick.
Number of KDF (T6) with SA : 0 (T5u) : 4 (3 Dyson) = 4 Total No secondary def.
Number of Rom (T6) with SA : 0 (T5u) : 3 (Dyson) = 3 Total (Dyson only) No secondary def.
Number of FED (T6) with SA : 3 (T5u) : 10 (3 Dyson) = 13 Total
The message is clear: play Fed or GTFO.
I was actually hopeful for something new like a four gun 3-4 bay carrier with command, but instead it turns out to be another over-sized cruiser with a few bays, no tac, and a horrible boff layout for support. If you want to make a Tac, Eng, or Sci carrier; than do it. This muddled, mish-mash of a layout is really horrible. It seems like nothing more than a Caitian carrier re-skin. I generally like the way this game is going the last few seasons, but y'all dropped the ball on this one.
(Just scanned the z-store for numbers, let me know if I missed anything)