One of the leading things being asked for over the last while has been a Jupiter-styled ship, especially since the original was removed from most places in the game in favour of the Command cruisers.
But now we have the Jupiter - playable, and given a high-quality T6 upgrade and look. Can we stop to appreciate how awesome that is?
It's a solid ship, definitely tempted to give it a look once it appears in the store.
I am very disappointed in the face that this is a science ship. But its not even the science part that gets me, its the 3/3 weapon slots for a ship this big. It should have at LEAST 4/3 weapon slots and a command spot if it is going to be this big. Also, seeing as the Federation has plenty of science vessels, why not make this into a Engineering or even better a Tactical vessel that has a carrier to it?
All pure carriers in this game have 3/3.
The second point is a viable question though. I'm not sure why carriers are sci based in this game, it may be that the launch speed increases with Auxiliary power therefore synching up carrier operations with sci powers naturally.
Altering that becomes interesting. For instance a carrier that gets its launching powers from weapons power seems...I don't know, redundant? Everyone is trying to run high weps energy.
The engineering carrier is the Obelisk and I can't really say how successful that was.
I really like the design of the new Jupiter. Sure beats the "Cruise" ship design of the old Jupiter you see in missions.
My only concerns are as follows:
1. Design symmetry. Will the lower nacelles position be adjustable? How about removable? I just think the ship would look more aesthetically pleasing than the current fixed position the lower nacelles are in now. Wish Star Fleet would get away from the notion that larger means more nacelles.
2. Only 3 Fore / 3 Aft weapons slots? On a ship as LARGE as the Jupiter is described to be? I would have thought a dreadnought would have a large number of armaments, 4/3 at least, 4/4 even. To be fair I would also increase the KDF Vo'quv Carrier to match the Jupiter's weapons slots and increase the Scimitar to 5/4. With the additional slots I would dump the carriers ability to mount dual cannons.
In general dreadnoughts should represent ships with MASSIVE fire power potential. Don't want to change the 3/3 weapons slot configuration? Fine, how about adding fixed front & aft 180 degree torp launchers that can't be removed. Do something to dreadnoughts that give them the appearance at least they're formidable death machines the moniker "Dreadnought" implies they are.
I too don't like the mini-nacelles.
It's not a dreadnought. It's a carrier. Two completely different types of ships. A carrier's primary means of attack is generally its wing of fighters. If it's a dedicated carrier then it doesn't need as many weapons.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
To all the players that are complaining about the lack of T6 Sci ships for the KDF and Romulan Factions, I just one thing to say: SHUT UP! Canonically, the KDF is geared for combat, not science, so for them Science would be for more for support (Heals and such) rather than DPS. And as for Trendy, give the guy a break, he is only trying to be your liaison between the players and the Devs. While I am disappointed that the Federation is getting another Sci Carrier with Intel rather than Command, I am impressed that the Devs actually took the time to say to the players "Here, give us feedback on this new ship concept, we value your input".
Thanks you Trendy. It'll be interesting to see what a Tac Captain can do with this ship as well.
"Starfleet players have access to plenty of Escort and Cruiser options, but not very many Science ships and even fewer Carriers."
What game are these people playing? A good chunk of the community has been screaming for more KDF and ROM stuff for years and they give us yet another FED gimmick.
Number of KDF (T6) with SA : 0 (T5u) : 4 (3 Dyson) = 4 Total No secondary def.
Number of Rom (T6) with SA : 0 (T5u) : 3 (Dyson) = 3 Total (Dyson only) No secondary def.
Number of FED (T6) with SA : 3 (T5u) : 10 (3 Dyson) = 13 Total
The message is clear: play Fed or GTFO.
I was actually hopeful for something new like a four gun 3-4 bay carrier with command, but instead it turns out to be another over-sized cruiser with a few bays, no tac, and a horrible boff layout for support. If you want to make a Tac, Eng, or Sci carrier; than do it. This muddled, mish-mash of a layout is really horrible. It seems like nothing more than a Caitian carrier re-skin. I generally like the way this game is going the last few seasons, but y'all dropped the ball on this one.
(Just scanned the z-store for numbers, let me know if I missed anything)
Don't make her Angry.... you won't like Trendy when she's Angry....
I had assumed that the "Build" stage of "Design Your Ship" would involve us, the players, voting on different ship builds. I mean I'll be voting, with my wallet, because this ship doesn't fill any gaps in my ship collection, but you know what I mean.
I'm considering it, but I've got two problems with the Jupiter.
My current FED builds don't need a carrier [but that's specific to what I'm personally in the market for right now]
I'm not a fan of the current look. It's very much a FED carrier and I have to give props to cryptic for making my least favorite choice look good but I can't quite forget that some much better designs (to my eye) were overlooked in favor of this one.
I'm not going to begrudge anyone for really getting into this ship, but I can't see myself ever becoming attached to it.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
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(...)
This is a Star Trek game originally designed with only a Federation faction. The game devs didn't have to add a Klingon or a Romulan faction. They did so because they wanted to. So you should all be thankful that you even have an Alt faction, and not whine and complain even after Trendy says
(...)
IIRC they had to. They didn't want to, but playable Klingon faction was forced by CBS.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Not correcting, but source please.
Also that doesn't explain Romulans.
Ugh... I have no source atm, just my memory and I'm not sure of this in100%, that's why I wrote "if"
Back on topic:
I wasn't fan of omega, but this ship looks very cool, and it comes from a person, who's a traditionalist if comes to fed ships (you know, neck, round saucer section, 2 warps...). I wasn't even consider buing it, but now I'm tempted...
Stat wise it is quite good IMO. Boffs are good for sci carrier. 2 tac ltc means TT, pattern and 2 FAW or 1 FAW and 2 patterns to support sci skills, aux2damp or EP2A + 2 intel powers with OSS to bust it more and cmd+lt sci make very decent damage IMO.
4 sci consoles to boost exotic and aux, 3 tac is quite enough, it's not escort, (Andromeda, Guardian, Geneva, FLEET Pathfinder... for example), and eng for uni consoles, because with this hull and shields it doesn't need much more survivality... especially with all new traits and free consoles.
Only thing I would be considering to add is secondary deflector (maybe...)
Sets and consoles are full of +turn bonuses now... it won't be escort, but again, T6 Gal, d'd and Guardian are all 5.5-6.5 turn rate and are ok, so why this one shouldn't be?
Some plp are just unrealistic. Sure it should have 5/3 weapons, necessarily battlecloack (enhanced!!!), cmd tac+cmd sci+cmd uni/intel+cmd sci/comm+cmd eng/pilot, console that kills everyone in 15 km range (teammates included) and 5 tac consoles, because everything below is TRIBBLE. I forgot about singularity powers and that it should be for free.
I don't know... i'm not too hot on the stats of the carrier. But i /did/ want a federation carrier. So i guess i'll run this as a sci/torper. See how that goes.
Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying, "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the people did rejoice and did feast upon the lambs and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orangutans and breakfast cereals ... Now did the Lord say, "First thou pullest the Holy Pin. Then thou must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, then lobbest thou the Holy Hand Grenade in the direction of thine foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it."
Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying, "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the people did rejoice and did feast upon the lambs and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orangutans and breakfast cereals ... Now did the Lord say, "First thou pullest the Holy Pin. Then thou must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, then lobbest thou the Holy Hand Grenade in the direction of thine foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it."
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
I'm working on trying to make that a reality. You can stop posting about that.
You do understand why people are annoyed and angry about this though, yes? Carriers were a KDF thing, we have not had a new one since the Karfi around 4 years ago, in that time we saw the Feds get a full carrier, an escort carrier and a sci carrier while the KDF were left to rot, we also have zero T6 Sci or carrier ships and then we see a Fed T6 carrier (that they also got to help design) get released with no KDF or Rom equivalent, and then to add insult to injury the blog mentions Feds having a limited selection? Its this kind of decison making that riles people up, people who are pasionate about the KDF and Romulans, people who always seem to be put on the back burner or forgot about entirely, people who love this game but are constantly made to feel like we are unwanted members of the game due to being left out in the cold constatly.
I literally just posted saying I'm working on getting Romulan and KDF ships and you respond with a full explanation as to why you're frustrated: that there's a lack of KDF ships.
EXACTLY! I honestly don't know why they keep complaining about it. I don't complain, instead, I be patient for the things that require time to create. To the Romulans and Klingons, you will get your ships with time and patience.
Would we? Honestly if we didn't complain about it, I am sure we would get even less than the few crumbs we already get. If we are not out saying we want this stuff, and enough of us are not, they just tell us there isn't enough interest for them to put out the effort.
So, I disagree. I am glad to see trendy is on the case, I think she does care, and wishes to see the Rom's and KDF get more, but I also assume she is fighting an uphill battle against overwhelming odds. I don't think we should be rude, or jerks, but I do believe the more people who chime in and voice that the KDF and/or Romulan's need a science ship, or a carrier, or whatever ship, that the better the chances of it ever happening are. Because it shows that there are an increasing number of players interested in it, wanting it, thus making it more viable to be profitable, and we all know that is the prime factor in what gets implemented and made.
ruff, meow, moo, whatever.... *shrug* [ Still Waiting for a Shiny New T6 Romulan Science Ship to Command ]
I was thinking given the trio of Design Tiles at the top of the announcements that we would get to vote on the Bridge Officer Layout. We didn't, but since I would have likely gone with what y'all chose anyway: I am good. If a variant comes out for Rommies, I will happily pick up a copy.
I'm working on trying to make that a reality. You can stop posting about that.
You do understand why people are annoyed and angry about this though, yes? Carriers were a KDF thing, we have not had a new one since the Karfi around 4 years ago, in that time we saw the Feds get a full carrier, an escort carrier and a sci carrier while the KDF were left to rot, we also have zero T6 Sci or carrier ships and then we see a Fed T6 carrier (that they also got to help design) get released with no KDF or Rom equivalent, and then to add insult to injury the blog mentions Feds having a limited selection? Its this kind of decison making that riles people up, people who are pasionate about the KDF and Romulans, people who always seem to be put on the back burner or forgot about entirely, people who love this game but are constantly made to feel like we are unwanted members of the game due to being left out in the cold constatly.
I literally just posted saying I'm working on getting Romulan and KDF ships and you respond with a full explanation as to why you're frustrated: that there's a lack of KDF ships.
EXACTLY! I honestly don't know why they keep complaining about it. I don't complain, instead, I be patient for the things that require time to create. To the Romulans and Klingons, you will get your ships with time and patience.
Would we? Honestly if we didn't complain about it, I am sure we would get even less than the few crumbs we already get. If we are not out saying we want this stuff, and enough of us are not, they just tell us there isn't enough interest for them to put out the effort.
So, I disagree. I am glad to see trendy is on the case, I think she does care, and wishes to see the Rom's and KDF get more, but I also assume she is fighting an uphill battle against overwhelming odds. I don't think we should be rude, or jerks, but I do believe the more people who chime in and voice that the KDF and/or Romulan's need a science ship, or a carrier, or whatever ship, that the better the chances of it ever happening are. Because it shows that there are an increasing number of players interested in it, wanting it, thus making it more viable to be profitable, and we all know that is the prime factor in what gets implemented and made.
And you may have a point about respectfully voicing your desires for the game. However, Trendy's made it clear that it's unwelcome on this particular thread. I'd suggest posting to a new thread elsewhere to have the dialog about KDF/Rom ships. I still say Cryptic have shown a willingness to listen and work for us lately, so I don't expect they're deaf to you.
Will not buy it though, currently no difference between this and a Fleet Upgraded Atrox.
I prefer the Atrox Boff layout as its going Sci, the Universal Lt means I lose a LT Cmd Sci skill, the Intel Eng is a strange choice, and not one I fully understand.
The New pets are pretty powerful, but to be honest, pet Ai is just so stupid I don't hold them down to much, running a Wing of Elite peregrines and Elite scorpions each seems to be just about right anyway.
I think my Atrox will have more hull from what i can work out!
Yes a little less shields, but I am running at 91.5k hull and nearly 30k shield per facing, who needs more!
I can run TBR2, GW3, Vortex, rift and FB2 along with sci team and HM, Reverse shield, aux2sif2 and eps, with tt and ts2.
This is plenty plenty good enough and I cannot justify the purchase of the new carrier other than looks, play style will be the same or even a little worse!
I will buy this ship if you change the layout of the BOFF's to the following:
Make the LT Science an Ensign Science slot, turn the LT Universal into a LT CMR Universal. Problem solved. Now I can choose to make this ship more tactically oriented, more Engineer oriented or more Science Oriented.
Thank you.
I'm sure the ship will appeal to some, but this is an enormous let down compared to what it could be. It is a Caitian Atrox Carrier with the nicest feature taken away. This T6 has fewer Lt. Commander boffs and only 6 weapons. The above solution is probably the best one proposed, but the ship needs another Lt. Commander boff. Period. It really also really needs a 4/3 or 4/4 load out.
What makes the Narcine and JHDC not pure carriers? They have 2 hangars and carrier mastery, and have 4/3.
Because they're Dreadnought Carriers. They serve a dual role. Therefore while they are carriers, they are not pure carriers.
This Jupiter class is a carrier first, last, and always.
The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier is a very interesting case. I have no clue why they made it a carrier at all to be frank.On DS9 it was THE dreadnought. A monster on the level of the Scimitar that could eat a Defiant for a breakfast appetizer. But never once was there an indication that it was a carrier. Furthermore Jem'Hadar attack ships don't need a carrier anymore than a Defiant does, it's limited range not withstanding.
The Narcine is in a similar situation. If I recall correctly the only ship it ever carried was the NX-01, simply because it was large enough to fit inside and it was tactically advantageous. But it wasn't a purpose built carrier with a squadron of deployable attack ships.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Loving the ship, and loving the fact the Frigates are basically improved Aquarius. Here's hoping the AI is as competent as the Vaadwaur Manasas, which use a pretty good cannon-oriented AI.
Now I only have 2 issues that I really would hope get solved between now and release:
1. Like someone else mentioned; cut the Lt Sci to Ensign Sci, and buff the Lt Uni to LtC Uni so that it can be spec'd to be a bit more aggressive, defensive or sci-heavy.
2. Give it one of 3 extras: Sensor Analysis+2ndary Deflector, a 3rd Hangar, or a 4th Fore weapon. This thing is going to be huge (if it's as large as the old Jupiter; that thing was larger than an Odyssey; and the NPC Odysseys and the old NPC Jupiters are considered dreadnoughts), and it deserves a bit more to let it somewhat rival the dreadnought carriers.
- Sensor Analysis+2ndary Deflector will at least allow it to steadily debuff a target for its pets to focus on and benefit it's Sci-centric setup.
- A 3rd hangar would help offset the 3/3 setup and allow it to remain competitive in its own way, as well as set the stage for a new class of carriers. Especially since hangar pet AI is rather terrible and the hangar pets in general have been nerfed hard. Basically, this option permits throwing more pets out there to offset the pet nerf and bad pet AI.
- A 4th Fore weapon would benefit the fact that this beast will need to turn to the fore on occasion to unleash the more offensive Sci skills, so it would allow squeezing in of a torpedo or DBB along the forward arc.
Beyond that, I definitely will be buying this ship. I'm just hoping both tweaks are made so that it's truly worthy of being a Jupiter successor.
On that subject, I find that the insistence of contest "rigging" still to be just bitter tears. The contest result would still have replaced the Jupiter regardless of whatever ship won, the way the Command Cruisers have replaced the Typhoons. Doesn't matter if it was Alpha, Gamma, or Epsilon. We were given 8 designs, all with some elements from other ships we have seen, even if they were considered to be originals.
- 2 of them faintly echoing the Typhon carrier that a number of players wanted w/o being straight copies (Epsilon and Sigma)
- 2 of them just being fat and oversized Command Cruisers with the same fugly nacelles attached to saucer (Beta and Theta)
- 2 of them looking like Prometheus style designs (Alpha and Gamma)
- 1 of them echoing the Constellation, including the nacelles being close together and close to the saucer (Delta)
- 1 of them echoing the Jupiter (Omega)
Again, the Devs themselves did not mention ANYWHERE the design origins of the ships prior to completion of the contest OR what NPC ship they would be using the winning design to replace. Everyone voted exactly on what they saw and liked/tolerated. Many saw certain design influences (a few which I've listed) they really liked and voted on them. Some really wanted their Typhon. Others wanted a new Constellation or "Mini Ent-J". And plenty wanted their Jupiter.
Beta and Theta both got knocked hard in comments due to being rather similar to the Command cruisers and the recently released Andromeda (in the case of Beta), and didn't bring something new enough to the table design-wise, so it's more of a matter of it being bad timing for those two designs. Granted, Beta and Theta, if they did win, would be incredibly fugly; assuming they'd be as large as the old Jupiter, and really would have ended up being called upsized Command cruisers and the associated blaming the devs of "laziness" (which in fact, a few posters did state in regards to both designs).
I'd just like to mirror the sentiments of the vocal minority here (and I apologise for the language)..but I think the stats and seating for the carrier are bloody brilliant considering what it's intended role is*.
*If any of you needed that pointing out, the intended role is support - Intel might not have been the best choice for this, but it saves you all moaning that it's "yet another *-blam-*ing Command ship!! COMAND SUCKS!! GIVE UZ MOAR INTEL/PILOT SHIPS!!" and "It needs MOAR WEPINS BCUZ ITS BIG".
Instead you've found something else to complain about/over, and it's the other stats that reflect the utility of a carrier and the way it's meant to be played to maximise the effectiveness - it isn't and never will be a gunboat-destroyer with a turn rate of 15+, with the capacity to one-shot everything in it's path without fighters.
Carrier pet AI really does need some work, but that's something for another time. Gone are the days when Frigate pets bolstered carrier captain-DPS to insane levels, now are the days of hard grind to get your DPS where you want it to be.
I have a Fed Engineer that used to captain an Obelisk until T6 came 'round. He's in a Command Battlecruiser at the moment, but maybe I'll pony-up for this new carrier. The still images of the ship look cool (thanks for linking to higher res versions). I am a little confused by the stats, though. I'd've thought Command BOff seating would have been better than Intel, for a ship that commands collections of other craft. ...but, uhm... ok, I guess.
I'm happy the Feds get a new frigate-level fighter pet. That's a nice touch. I'm disappointed the Advanced and/or Elite Callisto versions don't have Quantum torpedoes, but I suppose I'll look at the positive-side and accept the higher RoF of Photon as a boon.
Questions:
Will the effects of the Fleet Coordination Matrix (boosted dmg, acc, and temp hull) affect allied pets (either those launched from this carrier and/or any from teammates), or does it just affect players themselves?
I am generally disappointed at STO's Pet AI, especially when using cannon. Maybe the Lock Trajectory ability will give the Elites increased on-target time? Was there any additional programming/effort added to the AI to get them to properly use that skill? If not, then I expect the pets to just spam LT as often as possible, have no real tactical thought behind it, and only rarely be effective through blind luck.
Can you tell us the stats of the Jupiter's Admiralty card? (And I'd like to recommend that future new ship blogs include these stats as well.)
I can't help but comment on this part of the blog:
...Starfleet players have access to plenty of Escort and Cruiser options, but not very many Science ships and even fewer Carriers. This gave us a perfect opportunity to fill that gap.
You guys do know that there are one-and-a-half other factions in this game, right? The KDF and Romulans. Starfleet has way more Science ships than either. I really wish you guys would fill that gap (before continuing to expand the one that exists between Feds and KDF/Roms).
Also, Carriers used to be an "exclusive feature" of the KDF. Now I get times change, but now Starfleet will have more, including the first at Tier 6. Meanwhile the half-faction still has no Carriers.
That's terribly sad.
Anyway, just wanted you to know that my KDF Engineer who currently still flies a VoQuv is terribly jealous at the lack of T6 Carrier on the red team.
...Hmmm... I think my personal choice will be to boycott the Jupiter until there's a T6 KDF Carrier. Yeah. I think I might.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
Is reading so hard that one keeps harping on the KDF/Romulan's lack of a carrier? Do people really just love being abused by Trendy? This would be such a fascinating study on how often do forum posters not read through a thread before commenting.
Anyway, the Intel choice I feel is a good one. Ionic Turbulence on top of Gravity Well on top of APB FAW spam will definitely make it easier for the hangar pets to tear into the hapless targets; moreso since some of those pets will be cannon users.
I haven't read through the whole thread, but I saw a few posts about wanting this ship to have more weapons, or eng primary, there was probably even a tac primary wish in there somewhere as I know there were calls for it before.
I for one am glad that the devs kept this a more traditional carrier with a science primary. I have been having much fun with science magic as of late and having this carrier's layout capable of mimicking my intrepid to a great extend is thrilling. Plus the layout gives it room to go more heavily science or engineering or tac, so it can have a respectable showing in any department. And I've been doing just fine with my intrepid's 3/3 layout, so I don't mind it not getting an extra.
I too would probably prefer as a science primary having 5 science consoles, but perhaps the devs felt that as a not-exactly a science ship, that it wouldn't get that. *shrug* the engineering consoles leave plenty of room for science boosting universals, so I"m sure it will be fine.
It's nice for the devs to have introduced a new fed frigate pet. I don't know if I'd opt for them over danubes or deltas, but we shall see, and it's nice to have the option.
I am also happy that the devs gave this ship sovereign style impulse engines. I always thought this ship looked rather sovie-esque and I thought engines like these would be much more appropriate to that aesthetic and the size of the vessel than what appeared to be a more "tiny galaxy style impulse in the center" looking engine the concept seemed to have.
I do find that trait curious though... I never used transport warhead to know how effective that might be granting it to your minions, but tying it to tractor beam seems... I dunno, I suppose one might expect a huge ship like this to try and grapple its enemy in such a fashion, but considering tractor beams require 5km range (which can't be modified by graviton generators, which would be a nice change if it were) it seems a bit difficult for a carrier to live in that space with their limited maneuverability/speed to make use of that... Opening it up to any intel power might help compensate for that, I suppose... I don't normally use intel powers, I suppose I'll just have to mess around with them now and see if any of them fit into the build I imagine for this ship... or if that trait makes it worth while to slot one in even if I don't much care for it just to get the transported warheads.
But all in all, I am happy with the way the ship turned out, both in appearance and functionality, so thanks devs. ^^
The Odyssey has a larger crew complement than the Jupiter???
The T6 upgrade is going to make the Oddy an absolute monolith. Three or four carriers and a fleet of Oddy's and the Dominion War and about half of the Gamma Quadrant would have belonged to the Feds, hands down.
Comments
But now we have the Jupiter - playable, and given a high-quality T6 upgrade and look. Can we stop to appreciate how awesome that is?
It's a solid ship, definitely tempted to give it a look once it appears in the store.
All pure carriers in this game have 3/3.
The second point is a viable question though. I'm not sure why carriers are sci based in this game, it may be that the launch speed increases with Auxiliary power therefore synching up carrier operations with sci powers naturally.
Altering that becomes interesting. For instance a carrier that gets its launching powers from weapons power seems...I don't know, redundant? Everyone is trying to run high weps energy.
The engineering carrier is the Obelisk and I can't really say how successful that was.
I too don't like the mini-nacelles.
It's not a dreadnought. It's a carrier. Two completely different types of ships. A carrier's primary means of attack is generally its wing of fighters. If it's a dedicated carrier then it doesn't need as many weapons.
Thanks you Trendy. It'll be interesting to see what a Tac Captain can do with this ship as well.
Don't make her Angry.... you won't like Trendy when she's Angry....
- My current FED builds don't need a carrier [but that's specific to what I'm personally in the market for right now]
- I'm not a fan of the current look. It's very much a FED carrier and I have to give props to cryptic for making my least favorite choice look good but I can't quite forget that some much better designs (to my eye) were overlooked in favor of this one.
I'm not going to begrudge anyone for really getting into this ship, but I can't see myself ever becoming attached to it.Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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Ugh... I have no source atm, just my memory and I'm not sure of this in100%, that's why I wrote "if"
Back on topic:
I wasn't fan of omega, but this ship looks very cool, and it comes from a person, who's a traditionalist if comes to fed ships (you know, neck, round saucer section, 2 warps...). I wasn't even consider buing it, but now I'm tempted...
Stat wise it is quite good IMO. Boffs are good for sci carrier. 2 tac ltc means TT, pattern and 2 FAW or 1 FAW and 2 patterns to support sci skills, aux2damp or EP2A + 2 intel powers with OSS to bust it more and cmd+lt sci make very decent damage IMO.
4 sci consoles to boost exotic and aux, 3 tac is quite enough, it's not escort, (Andromeda, Guardian, Geneva, FLEET Pathfinder... for example), and eng for uni consoles, because with this hull and shields it doesn't need much more survivality... especially with all new traits and free consoles.
Only thing I would be considering to add is secondary deflector (maybe...)
Sets and consoles are full of +turn bonuses now... it won't be escort, but again, T6 Gal, d'd and Guardian are all 5.5-6.5 turn rate and are ok, so why this one shouldn't be?
Some plp are just unrealistic. Sure it should have 5/3 weapons, necessarily battlecloack (enhanced!!!), cmd tac+cmd sci+cmd uni/intel+cmd sci/comm+cmd eng/pilot, console that kills everyone in 15 km range (teammates included) and 5 tac consoles, because everything below is TRIBBLE. I forgot about singularity powers and that it should be for free.
Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying, "Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy." And the people did rejoice and did feast upon the lambs and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orangutans and breakfast cereals ... Now did the Lord say, "First thou pullest the Holy Pin. Then thou must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, then lobbest thou the Holy Hand Grenade in the direction of thine foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it."
There ya go, @pwlaughingtrendy
Trendy made me cry.
All the +1s for this magnificent post.
Would we? Honestly if we didn't complain about it, I am sure we would get even less than the few crumbs we already get. If we are not out saying we want this stuff, and enough of us are not, they just tell us there isn't enough interest for them to put out the effort.
So, I disagree. I am glad to see trendy is on the case, I think she does care, and wishes to see the Rom's and KDF get more, but I also assume she is fighting an uphill battle against overwhelming odds. I don't think we should be rude, or jerks, but I do believe the more people who chime in and voice that the KDF and/or Romulan's need a science ship, or a carrier, or whatever ship, that the better the chances of it ever happening are. Because it shows that there are an increasing number of players interested in it, wanting it, thus making it more viable to be profitable, and we all know that is the prime factor in what gets implemented and made.
[ Still Waiting for a Shiny New T6 Romulan Science Ship to Command ]
Annoyed? Ok. I'll give you that. But angry? No, this is a video game. If it is making you angry, you need to get a life.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Nice job, peoples.
What makes the Narcine and JHDC not pure carriers? They have 2 hangars and carrier mastery, and have 4/3.
Nicely said, and I completely agree.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
Will not buy it though, currently no difference between this and a Fleet Upgraded Atrox.
I prefer the Atrox Boff layout as its going Sci, the Universal Lt means I lose a LT Cmd Sci skill, the Intel Eng is a strange choice, and not one I fully understand.
The New pets are pretty powerful, but to be honest, pet Ai is just so stupid I don't hold them down to much, running a Wing of Elite peregrines and Elite scorpions each seems to be just about right anyway.
I think my Atrox will have more hull from what i can work out!
Yes a little less shields, but I am running at 91.5k hull and nearly 30k shield per facing, who needs more!
I can run TBR2, GW3, Vortex, rift and FB2 along with sci team and HM, Reverse shield, aux2sif2 and eps, with tt and ts2.
This is plenty plenty good enough and I cannot justify the purchase of the new carrier other than looks, play style will be the same or even a little worse!
I'm sure the ship will appeal to some, but this is an enormous let down compared to what it could be. It is a Caitian Atrox Carrier with the nicest feature taken away. This T6 has fewer Lt. Commander boffs and only 6 weapons. The above solution is probably the best one proposed, but the ship needs another Lt. Commander boff. Period. It really also really needs a 4/3 or 4/4 load out.
Because they're Dreadnought Carriers. They serve a dual role. Therefore while they are carriers, they are not pure carriers.
This Jupiter class is a carrier first, last, and always.
The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier is a very interesting case. I have no clue why they made it a carrier at all to be frank.On DS9 it was THE dreadnought. A monster on the level of the Scimitar that could eat a Defiant for a breakfast appetizer. But never once was there an indication that it was a carrier. Furthermore Jem'Hadar attack ships don't need a carrier anymore than a Defiant does, it's limited range not withstanding.
The Narcine is in a similar situation. If I recall correctly the only ship it ever carried was the NX-01, simply because it was large enough to fit inside and it was tactically advantageous. But it wasn't a purpose built carrier with a squadron of deployable attack ships.
Now I only have 2 issues that I really would hope get solved between now and release:
1. Like someone else mentioned; cut the Lt Sci to Ensign Sci, and buff the Lt Uni to LtC Uni so that it can be spec'd to be a bit more aggressive, defensive or sci-heavy.
2. Give it one of 3 extras: Sensor Analysis+2ndary Deflector, a 3rd Hangar, or a 4th Fore weapon. This thing is going to be huge (if it's as large as the old Jupiter; that thing was larger than an Odyssey; and the NPC Odysseys and the old NPC Jupiters are considered dreadnoughts), and it deserves a bit more to let it somewhat rival the dreadnought carriers.
- Sensor Analysis+2ndary Deflector will at least allow it to steadily debuff a target for its pets to focus on and benefit it's Sci-centric setup.
- A 3rd hangar would help offset the 3/3 setup and allow it to remain competitive in its own way, as well as set the stage for a new class of carriers. Especially since hangar pet AI is rather terrible and the hangar pets in general have been nerfed hard. Basically, this option permits throwing more pets out there to offset the pet nerf and bad pet AI.
- A 4th Fore weapon would benefit the fact that this beast will need to turn to the fore on occasion to unleash the more offensive Sci skills, so it would allow squeezing in of a torpedo or DBB along the forward arc.
Beyond that, I definitely will be buying this ship. I'm just hoping both tweaks are made so that it's truly worthy of being a Jupiter successor.
On that subject, I find that the insistence of contest "rigging" still to be just bitter tears. The contest result would still have replaced the Jupiter regardless of whatever ship won, the way the Command Cruisers have replaced the Typhoons. Doesn't matter if it was Alpha, Gamma, or Epsilon. We were given 8 designs, all with some elements from other ships we have seen, even if they were considered to be originals.
- 2 of them faintly echoing the Typhon carrier that a number of players wanted w/o being straight copies (Epsilon and Sigma)
- 2 of them just being fat and oversized Command Cruisers with the same fugly nacelles attached to saucer (Beta and Theta)
- 2 of them looking like Prometheus style designs (Alpha and Gamma)
- 1 of them echoing the Constellation, including the nacelles being close together and close to the saucer (Delta)
- 1 of them echoing the Jupiter (Omega)
Again, the Devs themselves did not mention ANYWHERE the design origins of the ships prior to completion of the contest OR what NPC ship they would be using the winning design to replace. Everyone voted exactly on what they saw and liked/tolerated. Many saw certain design influences (a few which I've listed) they really liked and voted on them. Some really wanted their Typhon. Others wanted a new Constellation or "Mini Ent-J". And plenty wanted their Jupiter.
Beta and Theta both got knocked hard in comments due to being rather similar to the Command cruisers and the recently released Andromeda (in the case of Beta), and didn't bring something new enough to the table design-wise, so it's more of a matter of it being bad timing for those two designs. Granted, Beta and Theta, if they did win, would be incredibly fugly; assuming they'd be as large as the old Jupiter, and really would have ended up being called upsized Command cruisers and the associated blaming the devs of "laziness" (which in fact, a few posters did state in regards to both designs).
*If any of you needed that pointing out, the intended role is support - Intel might not have been the best choice for this, but it saves you all moaning that it's "yet another *-blam-*ing Command ship!! COMAND SUCKS!! GIVE UZ MOAR INTEL/PILOT SHIPS!!" and "It needs MOAR WEPINS BCUZ ITS BIG".
Instead you've found something else to complain about/over, and it's the other stats that reflect the utility of a carrier and the way it's meant to be played to maximise the effectiveness - it isn't and never will be a gunboat-destroyer with a turn rate of 15+, with the capacity to one-shot everything in it's path without fighters.
Carrier pet AI really does need some work, but that's something for another time. Gone are the days when Frigate pets bolstered carrier captain-DPS to insane levels, now are the days of hard grind to get your DPS where you want it to be.
I'm happy the Feds get a new frigate-level fighter pet. That's a nice touch. I'm disappointed the Advanced and/or Elite Callisto versions don't have Quantum torpedoes, but I suppose I'll look at the positive-side and accept the higher RoF of Photon as a boon.
Questions:
I can't help but comment on this part of the blog:
You guys do know that there are one-and-a-half other factions in this game, right? The KDF and Romulans. Starfleet has way more Science ships than either. I really wish you guys would fill that gap (before continuing to expand the one that exists between Feds and KDF/Roms).
Also, Carriers used to be an "exclusive feature" of the KDF. Now I get times change, but now Starfleet will have more, including the first at Tier 6. Meanwhile the half-faction still has no Carriers.
That's terribly sad.
Anyway, just wanted you to know that my KDF Engineer who currently still flies a VoQuv is terribly jealous at the lack of T6 Carrier on the red team.
...Hmmm... I think my personal choice will be to boycott the Jupiter until there's a T6 KDF Carrier. Yeah. I think I might.
You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
Anyway, the Intel choice I feel is a good one. Ionic Turbulence on top of Gravity Well on top of APB FAW spam will definitely make it easier for the hangar pets to tear into the hapless targets; moreso since some of those pets will be cannon users.
I for one am glad that the devs kept this a more traditional carrier with a science primary. I have been having much fun with science magic as of late and having this carrier's layout capable of mimicking my intrepid to a great extend is thrilling. Plus the layout gives it room to go more heavily science or engineering or tac, so it can have a respectable showing in any department. And I've been doing just fine with my intrepid's 3/3 layout, so I don't mind it not getting an extra.
I too would probably prefer as a science primary having 5 science consoles, but perhaps the devs felt that as a not-exactly a science ship, that it wouldn't get that. *shrug* the engineering consoles leave plenty of room for science boosting universals, so I"m sure it will be fine.
It's nice for the devs to have introduced a new fed frigate pet. I don't know if I'd opt for them over danubes or deltas, but we shall see, and it's nice to have the option.
I am also happy that the devs gave this ship sovereign style impulse engines. I always thought this ship looked rather sovie-esque and I thought engines like these would be much more appropriate to that aesthetic and the size of the vessel than what appeared to be a more "tiny galaxy style impulse in the center" looking engine the concept seemed to have.
I do find that trait curious though... I never used transport warhead to know how effective that might be granting it to your minions, but tying it to tractor beam seems... I dunno, I suppose one might expect a huge ship like this to try and grapple its enemy in such a fashion, but considering tractor beams require 5km range (which can't be modified by graviton generators, which would be a nice change if it were) it seems a bit difficult for a carrier to live in that space with their limited maneuverability/speed to make use of that... Opening it up to any intel power might help compensate for that, I suppose... I don't normally use intel powers, I suppose I'll just have to mess around with them now and see if any of them fit into the build I imagine for this ship... or if that trait makes it worth while to slot one in even if I don't much care for it just to get the transported warheads.
But all in all, I am happy with the way the ship turned out, both in appearance and functionality, so thanks devs. ^^
The T6 upgrade is going to make the Oddy an absolute monolith. Three or four carriers and a fleet of Oddy's and the Dominion War and about half of the Gamma Quadrant would have belonged to the Feds, hands down.