I view STO to be as Canon as the books, so... Soft Canon at best. Unless events in the game are directly referenced in a new Prime Universe story, it will remain as canon as the old Thrawn Trilogy for Star Wars.
I know of only two games that are to be considered Grade A Official Canon:
Star Trek
Aliens: Colonial Marines
A Matrix video game was referenced by The Animatrix and Matrix 2. It helps that they were all planned at the same time by the directors of the series.
This has been covered before. Star Trek canon has always been defined as what's shown on-screen. Only the movies and various TV series are canon. There's debate if the Animated series counts. Everything else is not.
This is not like Star Wars where they apparently count comics and other things.
Star Wars has NOTHING off-screen thats canon.
You are half right, and half wrong. The half right part is that anything off screen before Disney has been flushed. However, they have now said that everything they are making *post* Disney IS canon, and that includes, the movies, books, and video games:
We'll leave the whole 'canon' argument to historians since Disney is setting a new precedent with including books and video games in canon where Paramount and others stick almost exclusively to the 'screen' for examples.
Regardless of how much they want to retconn out officially licensed sequals before the sale, I still hold that they are the 'official' sequals, and the post sale content is reboot trash.
So what happens when the Hard Cannon makes errors ?
Like beaming up Scotty and Geordi in The Dyson Sphere episode TNG ?
(They used Scotty's shuttle to keep the dyson spheres doors wedged open to allow the Enterprise to escape. The shuttle was using its shields at the time to keep the doors wedged open. Then the Enterprise swoops in and beams Scotty and Laforge off the shuttle and escaped the Dyson sphere ? No shields were lowered, they just got beamed up through the shields.
So can you, or can you not, transport people off a shielded ship, Canon says No, AND Yes.
Should we start omitting certain episodes that have made errors ?
What is the CBS policy on this ?
No one knows.
My head-canon for that particular scene is that, like energy weapons, a transporter can be modulated to bypass a shield if the frequency is known. This can't be used in combat because weapons fire hitting the shield forces it out of modulation temporarily.
This has been covered before. Star Trek canon has always been defined as what's shown on-screen. Only the movies and various TV series are canon. There's debate if the Animated series counts. Everything else is not.
This is not like Star Wars where they apparently count comics and other things.
Star Wars has NOTHING off-screen thats canon.
You are half right, and half wrong. The half right part is that anything off screen before Disney has been flushed. However, they have now said that everything they are making *post* Disney IS canon, and that includes, the movies, books, and video games:
We'll leave the whole 'canon' argument to historians since Disney is setting a new precedent with including books and video games in canon where Paramount and others stick almost exclusively to the 'screen' for examples.
Regardless of how much they want to retconn out officially licensed sequals before the sale, I still hold that they are the 'official' sequals, and the post sale content is reboot trash.
What one company considers canon has absolutely nothing to do with any other company or franchise. The person who owns gets to decide; that's really all there is to it. Different companies own SW and Trek, so it's no surprise they decide different things. And you can think whatever you like, but at the end of the day the owner is right, not you.
So what happens when the Hard Cannon makes errors ?
Like beaming up Scotty and Geordi in The Dyson Sphere episode TNG ?
(They used Scotty's shuttle to keep the dyson spheres doors wedged open to allow the Enterprise to escape. The shuttle was using its shields at the time to keep the doors wedged open. Then the Enterprise swoops in and beams Scotty and Laforge off the shuttle and escaped the Dyson sphere ? No shields were lowered, they just got beamed up through the shields.
So can you, or can you not, transport people off a shielded ship, Canon says No, AND Yes.
Should we start omitting certain episodes that have made errors ?
What is the CBS policy on this ?
No one knows.
My head-canon for that particular scene is that, like energy weapons, a transporter can be modulated to bypass a shield if the frequency is known. This can't be used in combat because weapons fire hitting the shield forces it out of modulation temporarily.
Wait, the point of discussion for that episode is beaming through shields, not the fact that Scotty still thinks Kirk is alive?
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I'm surprised that no-one has brought up the actual reason as to why all licensed works (IE: non-TV/movie) are strictly non-canon, and the reason isn't exactly a secret.
Shortly into TNG's run, Paramount's lawyers advised the studio to make sure that their writers never used any story ideas that did not originate with them, as they were concerned about the authors coming after them for royalties for it. I think this might have been triggered by the appearance of an Orion ship in an onscreen graphic that was produced for the FASA RPG -- something that Paramount itself didn't have the rights to. Since then, all licensed works (including STO) are not only non-canon, they are also a sort of anti-canon: because of Paramount's (and thus now CBS's) internal rules, none of the ideas/images/stories/etc. seen here, or elsewhere, can ever be used in a Star Trek television show or movie, and thus can never be canon.
Needless to say, this has created problems, since mistakes and bad decisions made by the show's writers are annoyingly permanent, and good stories from licensed works can never truely be part of the fold. The story in 2009's 'Star Trek', for example, would have made a lot more sense if the backstory from the 'Countdown' prequel comic could have been referenced when Spock was explaining Nero's backstory, but since it was in a book, they couldn't touch it...
I have no doubt that's true, and I'm not a lawyer... But how come STO can use stuff from novels then, like Diane Duane's Vulcan/Romulan lore and language?
I voted "no" but honestly it was only in the strictest sense or whatever legal sense the book thumpers and the tv watchdogs would consider "canon". Perhaps one day when the CBS lawyers or whoever up top comes out and says that Star Trek Online is canon then fine. It really has no bearing on me and I can live with whatever goes on in STO being canon. As far as I am concerned this is just a continuation of the Star Trek Universe.
"There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men. The words of Ten Bears carries the same iron of life and death. It is good that warriors such as we meet in the struggle of life... or death. It shall be life." - Ten Bears (Will Sampson)
It does not matter if CBS, Paramount, the Pope or whoever else is behind it right now says it is canon. To me it doesnt feel canon. And that's because of what they've done with the ships...namely lockbox ships. For me there are other minor things like humans running around with ponytails or "epic beards" and grossly exaggerated character creation/alien customization but its mainly the ships. I threw up my hands in disgust and gave up on that issue a long time ago. They kinda dug themselves into a hole...because of the time and/or money players have invested into lockbox ships they cant really undo it. They should have never done non-canon ships in the first place.
He refers to never have travelled through a Transwarp conduit, not at transwarp.
I can't remember it, but I assumed it contradicted threshold and I thought I read it was intentionally done. Anyway, point is canon is full of nonsensical and contradictonary stuff. Threshold, Spock'sBrain, Borg Queen. Canonically you have to accept that and it's usually that the recent event outrules the previous or in some cases that "both is possible". As such I do accept the canonical existence of a Borg Queen, I have a "headcanon" explanation for her to rectify the error and I will never stop to hate those responsible for it. But I still accept what is canon and what's not, regardless of what I think of it. And I think that's a step some people can't take because they think "canon" is what they like (good) and non-canon is what they dislike (bad).
Last year when I was using a PC monitor it wasn't canon.
You win the thread
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
He refers to never have travelled through a Transwarp conduit, not at transwarp.
I can't remember it, but I assumed it contradicted threshold and I thought I read it was intentionally done. Anyway, point is canon is full of nonsensical and contradictonary stuff. Threshold, Spock'sBrain, Borg Queen. Canonically you have to accept that and it's usually that the recent event outrules the previous or in some cases that "both is possible". As such I do accept the canonical existence of a Borg Queen, I have a "headcanon" explanation for her to rectify the error and I will never stop to hate those responsible for it. But I still accept what is canon and what's not, regardless of what I think of it. And I think that's a step some people can't take because they think "canon" is what they like (good) and non-canon is what they dislike (bad).
Oh, I agree, I just thought I'd point it out .
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
No, CBS has said so. I like to look at it as more of an alternate reality like the reboot films. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, just didn't happen in the Prime (TV) Universe.
This has been covered before. Star Trek canon has always been defined as what's shown on-screen. Only the movies and various TV series are canon. There's debate if the Animated series counts. Everything else is not.
This is not like Star Wars where they apparently count comics and other things.
Star Wars has NOTHING off-screen thats canon.
You are half right, and half wrong. The half right part is that anything off screen before Disney has been flushed. However, they have now said that everything they are making *post* Disney IS canon, and that includes, the movies, books, and video games:
We'll leave the whole 'canon' argument to historians since Disney is setting a new precedent with including books and video games in canon where Paramount and others stick almost exclusively to the 'screen' for examples.
Regardless of how much they want to retconn out officially licensed sequals before the sale, I still hold that they are the 'official' sequals, and the post sale content is reboot trash.
What one company considers canon has absolutely nothing to do with any other company or franchise. The person who owns gets to decide; that's really all there is to it. Different companies own SW and Trek, so it's no surprise they decide different things. And you can think whatever you like, but at the end of the day the owner is right, not you.
Ya, because tomorrow what they tell you is canon today, may not be anymore.
Comments
A Matrix video game was referenced by The Animatrix and Matrix 2. It helps that they were all planned at the same time by the directors of the series.
We'll leave the whole 'canon' argument to historians since Disney is setting a new precedent with including books and video games in canon where Paramount and others stick almost exclusively to the 'screen' for examples.
Regardless of how much they want to retconn out officially licensed sequals before the sale, I still hold that they are the 'official' sequals, and the post sale content is reboot trash.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
My character Tsin'xing
What one company considers canon has absolutely nothing to do with any other company or franchise. The person who owns gets to decide; that's really all there is to it. Different companies own SW and Trek, so it's no surprise they decide different things. And you can think whatever you like, but at the end of the day the owner is right, not you.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Wait, the point of discussion for that episode is beaming through shields, not the fact that Scotty still thinks Kirk is alive?
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
It does not matter if CBS, Paramount, the Pope or whoever else is behind it right now says it is canon. To me it doesnt feel canon. And that's because of what they've done with the ships...namely lockbox ships. For me there are other minor things like humans running around with ponytails or "epic beards" and grossly exaggerated character creation/alien customization but its mainly the ships. I threw up my hands in disgust and gave up on that issue a long time ago. They kinda dug themselves into a hole...because of the time and/or money players have invested into lockbox ships they cant really undo it. They should have never done non-canon ships in the first place.
I can't remember it, but I assumed it contradicted threshold and I thought I read it was intentionally done. Anyway, point is canon is full of nonsensical and contradictonary stuff. Threshold, Spock'sBrain, Borg Queen. Canonically you have to accept that and it's usually that the recent event outrules the previous or in some cases that "both is possible". As such I do accept the canonical existence of a Borg Queen, I have a "headcanon" explanation for her to rectify the error and I will never stop to hate those responsible for it. But I still accept what is canon and what's not, regardless of what I think of it. And I think that's a step some people can't take because they think "canon" is what they like (good) and non-canon is what they dislike (bad).
You win the thread
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Oh, I agree, I just thought I'd point it out
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Ya, because tomorrow what they tell you is canon today, may not be anymore.
BTW, Revan is female and Han shot first.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG