Admirals treated like Captians???

semalda226

While I'm sure this has been brought up before the recent mission Sunrise had me thinking...Why would you send a famous Admiral who just saved the galaxy to check out a dying star? That qualifies for a low ranking Captian with a moderately geared science vessel at the most...However in the Cryptic - verse they send TOP MEN...

nightken

semalda226 wrote: »

While I'm sure this has been brought up before the recent mission Sunrise had me thinking...Why would you send a famous Admiral who just saved the galaxy to check out a dying star? That qualifies for a low ranking Captian with a moderately geared science vessel at the most...

cause flagship is too important and just about everyone else is dead or needs repairs.

brian334

Welcome to STO.

How did you like being ordered about by commanders and captains in the last few story arcs, Admiral?

narthais

They frankly should have planned ahead and not taken player ranks above captain considering the way MMO gameplay goes.

Course then they would have had to call the admiralty system something else.

semalda226

Oh don't get me wrong I find it funny as all heck when I think about it. Bunch of the admiralty just sitting around a lowly lieutenant strolls in with a report about the dying star and they think "well that's gonna require the best of the best to check that out!"

sisteric

My thoughts are that since it's a star that's acting very abnormally, they send some experienced crew to go investigate. I bet they have some data on the observation so far that makes them think it's possibly a manufactured incident and not an natural event. Sending a crew that has seen lots of weird stuff on a mission that just oozes weirdness for what it is, is the perfect fit for us. We dealt with all manner of weirdness before the final battle, who better than us to deal with weirdness again?

nightken

oh and no one likes the player character except harry kim and maybe tuvok.

semalda226

@sisteric I could get that but let's be honest they'd send some unheard of captian to check it out they would be like "uh ya we need someone else we don't know what's going on here." Then they would call us in.

dareau

nightken wrote: »

oh and no one likes the player character except harry kim and maybe tuvok.

And here I thought that at least all of the ex-Voyager crew fell in love with me during the DQ arc...

As far as being in character, I left word with Jorel's secretary "if there's something that's going to happen that can be used to keep me in space instead of those desks, make sure my name is the only one attached on it..."

And hinted that not many people could tell her otherwise...

g0rb4g

I prefer to look at i this way... I (my character) is so awesome that any slightly dangerous/peculiar/ precarious situation demands my presence. I'm not one of millions of Dahar Masters. I'm THE Dahar Master! I may be Orion, but I'm the **** as far as the KDF is concerned lol Treat this game as if only your character exists and you'll be fine

semalda226

Oh I just get a laugh out of it. I'm a fleet admiral and I take orders from admiral Paris? All I thought was (enter appropriate expletive here) please get in the back where you belong.

goodscotch

narthais wrote: »

They frankly should have planned ahead and not taken player ranks above captain considering the way MMO gameplay goes.

Course then they would have had to call the admiralty system something else.

This.

maobe

Even if you are THE fleet admiral, someone has to do the job.
because YOU are one of the best, if not THE best, your ship is only a bit dirty, and can do. YOU can do.
a sun is dying from nothing!
admirality has some fine senses and that senses are tingling loud. so they send THEIR BEST (available) crew: YOURS.
and lo, behold: tholians and the temporal cold war and the terrans in between! the right job, for the right crew!

sisteric

High ranking officers taking orders from lower ranking officer occur all the time in the US Navy. You can have an Admiral visit a ship, but the Ship's Captain orders overrules the Admiral. And the Admiral has to obey the Captains orders.
Same goes for an Admiral leading a Fleet, he may get written orders from a Commander at the Pentagon for where he is to operate, and what he is to do there.
We are doing the same thing in in STO. Just that most players may not have the military background or tradition to understand that this is a reality normally.

sisteric

semalda226 wrote: »

@sisteric I could get that but let's be honest they'd send some unheard of captain to check it out they would be like "uh ya we need someone else we don't know what's going on here." Then they would call us in.

For me, it would be par for the course that they had sent some lesser vessel already and it didn't report back. And instead of telling us this, they just send us out there anyways.

semalda226

@maobe only issue is my ship and crew saw the tholians and just kinda laughed and while the tholians stood there confused we vaporized them in 1 fell swoop. I think in my case we were overkill for the mission at hand. Let another crew get some experience ya know?

kiralyn

Welcome to "it's a game."

Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Just like it doesn't make sense that, when you're down with an away team, with a Science officer to your left & your an Engineer on the other side, you are the one who ends up calibrating the console.

xyquarze

sisteric wrote: »

Just that most players may not have the military background or tradition to understand that this is a reality normally.

No military background? I've played Counterstrike and Command & Conquer, I've watched NCIS, at least for a couple of seasons. I know everything. (And while I do agree that locking the ranks at Captain-ish levels would have been a good idea, the number of people who think an admiral can just "pull rank" whenever they please, is astonishing. Go on, search the forums)

sisteric

xyquarze wrote: »

sisteric wrote: »

Just that most players may not have the military background or tradition to understand that this is a reality normally.

No military background? I've played Counterstrike and Command & Conquer, I've watched NCIS, at least for a couple of seasons. I know everything. (And while I do agree that locking the ranks at Captain-ish levels would have been a good idea, the number of people who think an admiral can just "pull rank" whenever they please, is astonishing. Go on, search the forums)

LOL!

Yes Base Commander!

farmallm

To me they should left the highest rank either Captain or low ranking Admiral.

However way I see it, this Fleet Admiral or Dahar Master. Isn't going to be sitting behind a desk. They want out there where the action is.

semalda226

Captian Picard turned down being an admiral because he would've been put behind a desk doesn't that kinda invalidate us as admirals?

g0rb4g

semalda226 wrote: »

Captian Picard turned down being an admiral because he would've been put behind a desk doesn't that kinda invalidate us as admirals?

I completely agree with Jean Luc. As long as you command a star ship, you can affect the outcome of any given situation (for the better). As a paper pusher you just gotta hope for the best.....

xyquarze

While I agree that there is no indication whatsoever in Star Trek lore that this has happened - actually most probably it did not - there have times where military (or police or similar) ranks suffered from some kind of inflation. In German police, a "Kommissar" used to be a high ranked guy, you had one in your city and worshipped him. Now, a high school intern will be called "Kommissar" if they don't fall down the stairs on their first day. (I may have exaggerated it).

But yes, considering the military of today and the depictions in canon, an admiral would not be at the frontlines that much. Maybe a fallback to medieval/renaissance times, where of course Gustavus Adolphus or Napoleon traveled with their troops?

artan42

sisteric wrote: »

High ranking officers taking orders from lower ranking officer occur all the time in the US Navy. You can have an Admiral visit a ship, but the Ship's Captain orders overrules the Admiral. And the Admiral has to obey the Captains orders.
Same goes for an Admiral leading a Fleet, he may get written orders from a Commander at the Pentagon for where he is to operate, and what he is to do there.
We are doing the same thing in in STO. Just that most players may not have the military background or tradition to understand that this is a reality normally.

Is the KDF the US Navy? Klingons have a nice answer to a jumped up little commander trying to give orders to a General, it's the back of a fist.​​

rattler2

artan42 wrote: »

Is the KDF the US Navy? Klingons have a nice answer to a jumped up little commander trying to give orders to a General, it's the back of a fist.​​

Um... isn't that how they handle a Divorce?

legendarylycan

rattler2 wrote: »

artan42 wrote: »

Is the KDF the US Navy? Klingons have a nice answer to a jumped up little commander trying to give orders to a General, it's the back of a fist.

Um... isn't that how they handle a Divorce?

no, that's how they initiate mating rituals, per generations​​

rattler2

*Scratches head* What about Quark in that one episode of DS9? I think he got backhanded at the end by his "wife" after they were done exposing corruption in the Empire.

maobe

semalda226 wrote: »

@maobe only issue is my ship and crew saw the tholians and just kinda laughed and while the tholians stood there confused we vaporized them in 1 fell swoop. I think in my case we were overkill for the mission at hand. Let another crew get some experience ya know?

thehehe i know dat feel very well they beamed in and got vaped by my boffs before i really realized whats happening.

talonxv

Far as KDF generals not leading from the front, Martok in a BoP anyone? And even the Vice Admiral commanding the fleet in the final engagement was on a Galaxy, granted not sitting in the hot seat, but on a flag bridge.

See this is where PWE screws up. Either give admirals a flag bridge and allow us to promote BOFFs to captain to take command of ships we have in port(not admiralty system) and we call the shots from the flag bridge. And go one step further, have a fact ship, tactics boff has to take command etc

So many ways PWE could of done this, instead they went the most lazy asinine way. Admirals don't sit in the bot seat.

If PWE wants to learn how it's done, should consult David Weber, author of the Honor Harrington series. He nails to a T how flag officers operate.

bobbydazlers

sisteric wrote: »

My thoughts are that since it's a star that's acting very abnormally, they send some experienced crew to go investigate. I bet they have some data on the observation so far that makes them think it's possibly a manufactured incident and not an natural event. Sending a crew that has seen lots of weird stuff on a mission that just oozes weirdness for what it is, is the perfect fit for us. We dealt with all manner of weirdness before the final battle, who better than us to deal with weirdness again?

good call, its like I keep saying - you have to use your imagination a bit with this game and fill in the back story of why things happen the way they do in some instances.

same as when admiral Kirk was given command of the U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701 in Star Trek: The Motion Picture, as he said to captain Decker - experience, five years out there dealing with unknowns like this, my familiarity with the Enterprise, this crew.

gradii

Game should cater to captains, as that's the standard hero rank. at the very least allow us to choose our rank in dialouge and no forcing flag bridges and obnoxious in game admiral references on us. (admiralty system is very unintrusive in comparison to what they could have done and already do in other areas)