i am completely opposed to a crossfaction armada. as far as i am concerned, if people want to build a kdf fleet, they should log in and play kdf.
Hen or egg problem from the player side now?
"I want to play KDF side, but it's so hard to get a good fleet with a decent starbase there. I rather keep playing Fed."
"Oh, no one wants to play KDF side and join a fleet. It's hard to build up your fleet like that."
No one will build up KDF fleets just for the sake of its existence. People want to build up a KDF fleet so they can play their character with access to all the cool toys there.
If they end up not doing it there - at least the players that do play KDF now have a fully developed fleet, and don't have to hope that some day a miracle happens and people randomly decide to play KDF en masse. Sudden change in player behaviour without making any changes to the game is not that likely.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
What I don’t understand is the concept of giving the larger alpha fleets a XP bonus or boost while the smaller gamma ones get a Dil bonus.
I mean Alpha fleets already maxed out their holdings and don’t need XP while the “nobody donates dil” problem is a general one. Nobody of a small group donating it is the same as nobody of a large group donating it.
In my opinion a small Gamma fleet would profit more from XP boosts while Alpha fleets which only run provision projects that cost dil anyway would profit from any dil discount most.
Sorry I play for 3 years in all different kind of fleet constellations from tier 1-5, from a roster of 10 to a roster of 500. Those fleet leaders in such an alliance who accept external mark donations will find their own fleet member’s credits to be depleted soon and without fleet credits where are the thousands over thousands of doffs are supposed to come from? The academy? The exchange? As if anybody would bother if you look at the demands of tier 4 XP projects. Each project needs 154 of them and you look at 450 of such projects or only more Dil intense stuff as an alternative.
I don’t know, I just see the same contribution problems we have in this game just put on a larger scale with this.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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Until we get more information, how will the Armada concept affect map invites for gear and temp fleet invites for ships? Will we have cross-fleet stores access as part of joining an armada?
Maybe those kind of "permissions" will be added as well?
It may not happen, but would be nice to cut out the middle man if it does. Of course, fleets would have a permission for those things if it does.
-AoP- Warrior's Blood (KDF Armada) / -AoP- Qu' raD qulbo'Degh / -AoP- ProjectPhoenix Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
Usually, as far as players go, it's the case that the Klingon looks at the Romulan as competition. And yes, the truth is much more obvious: the FedBrats are the competition, the darling favorites who still get more stuff than either of the other factions, and more often than not, they get more stuff than both the KDF and RRF put together. This is why the KDF and RRF have such small numbers (granted, it's not the only reason, but ignoring it is sticking one's head in the sand, or up one's rear), and this is why the KDF and the RRF get less stuff, which, again, is that same old Circular Reasoning and Self-Fulfilling Prophecy that is outrageously and blatantly illogical.
As far as realism (in terms of in-universe behavior), the reaction/response to the doughnut analogy you've presented would be that the Klingon and the Romulan would be more likely to both pull out weapons and gut the Human, and then divide the doughnuts between themselves.
i understand this.
there are other romulan fleets just like yourself. this is probably an ideal time to network, and i think that is the real solution; to find more like-minded fleets in both factions.
a non solution is to allow cross-faction fleets. you think that would benefit romulans, but it actually only serves feddies, and picks the bones of the kdf. because under that system, feddie fleets woudnt even have to log in kdf to level their fleets. the defining characteristic of an active kdf fleet would be given as a reward to feds for doing... nothing. the idea of feddies playing isa and cca all day and getting a t6 kdf starbase out of the deal turns my stomach.
While I'm only a junior member of Starfleet Dental, I would like to cordially and formally invite any small/inferior fleets needing hundreds of thousands of dil to be dumped into their holdings to swear fealty to one of the wealthiest, most charitable fleets in the game. No strings attached; just a simple oath and your fleet could be a rising star!
Hear, hear but does Starfleet Dental really plan to become Alpha fleet or do you guys "swear fealty" to Shutup Wesley? And what are the plans KDF side with Nerds of Prey?
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Usually, as far as players go, it's the case that the Klingon looks at the Romulan as competition. And yes, the truth is much more obvious: the FedBrats are the competition, the darling favorites who still get more stuff than either of the other factions, and more often than not, they get more stuff than both the KDF and RRF put together. This is why the KDF and RRF have such small numbers (granted, it's not the only reason, but ignoring it is sticking one's head in the sand, or up one's rear), and this is why the KDF and the RRF get less stuff, which, again, is that same old Circular Reasoning and Self-Fulfilling Prophecy that is outrageously and blatantly illogical.
As far as realism (in terms of in-universe behavior), the reaction/response to the doughnut analogy you've presented would be that the Klingon and the Romulan would be more likely to both pull out weapons and gut the Human, and then divide the doughnuts between themselves.
i understand this.
there are other romulan fleets just like yourself. this is probably an ideal time to network, and i think that is the real solution; to find more like-minded fleets in both factions.
a non solution is to allow cross-faction fleets. you think that would benefit romulans, but it actually only serves feddies, and picks the bones of the kdf. because under that system, feddie fleets woudnt even have to log in kdf to level their fleets. the defining characteristic of an active kdf fleet would be given as a reward to feds for doing... nothing. the idea of feddies playing isa and cca all day and getting a t6 kdf starbase out of the deal turns my stomach.
I'm not sure how it would serve FedBrats, in light of this:
The Armada System will not allow for cross-faction organizations when it launches.
We plan to spend some time later on exploring whether or not doing so would be technically feasible, and what repercussions it might entail.
For example, I know off-the-cuff that a FED player can't be invited to a KDF Starbase. So if we somehow overcame the technical hurdles that would allow these two Fleets to belong to the same Armada together, would it be fair to ask the FED Fleet to help donate to the KDF projects, if they can't reap some of the benefits?
We'll have to review it all in detail later on.
(emphasis added)
And as I told you previously, our first and main fleet is KDF-allied (I'm sure you've encountered some of us from time to time; I've encountered some of your fleet members). Our main KDF-allied fleet is 7 levels higher than our main Fed-allied fleet, which was admittedly created later, but I trust you see the point. The majority of the membership of all of our fleets is RRF, not Fed, and not KDF, although we have some Feds and some KDF among us. We generally consider them (with rare exceptions in the case of "liaisons") to have given up their citizenship in UFP or KE in order to serve in a foreign military (thus I have suggested, as another means of facilitating making the RRF into a full faction, the idea that species should not be faction-bound, but should be considered by the game mechanics to be citizens of whatever power has their fleet leader's allegiance, which should then allow cross-alliance teaming for RRF personnel, and their fleet members who were formerly citizens of the KE or UFP -- and believe me, I understand that Orions are one of the best things the KE has going for them, and have two Orions myself, but I think my proposed solution of faction-unbound species is more "realistic" and not as likely to harm the KDF as you might think).
But if it's really such a threat to the KDF, then, as I suggested above, they could make cross-faction armadas possible only for fleets whose leaders are RRF. As it stands, we have to go to someone's warbird to even have cross-faction meetings of our fleets. I'm thinking that there will be some sort of social hub for each armada, so that would resolve the "Where do we go to have our next meeting?" issue.
Can a Federation and KDF fleet be in the same Armada? Because that'd be great.
The Armada System will not allow for cross-faction organizations when it launches.
We plan to spend some time later on exploring whether or not doing so would be technically feasible, and what repercussions it might entail.
For example, I know off-the-cuff that a FED player can't be invited to a KDF Starbase. So if we somehow overcame the technical hurdles that would allow these two Fleets to belong to the same Armada together, would it be fair to ask the FED Fleet to help donate to the KDF projects, if they can't reap some of the benefits?
We'll have to review it all in detail later on.
And here's the Link to the Announcement for those who missed it --> CLICK ME!
Two words: Faction Embassies.
A new Fleet Project should allow Federation Fleets to be given access to the Federation Embassy on Qo'noS and of course Klingon Fleets would get access to the Klingon Embassy on Earth. This way we all get another Fleet Project to play with and you don't have to worry about Fleet Starbases. Let the Starbases stay as they are and unique Klingon goodies for Starfleet characters as well as unique Starfleet goodies for Klingon characters can be found on each Embassy.
I know we're getting a Krenim Fleet Project so this doesn't need to happen anytime soon. But it could be new project in the future.
"So if we somehow overcame the technical hurdles that would allow these two Fleets to belong to the same Armada together, would it be fair to ask the FED Fleet to help donate to the KDF projects, if they can't reap some of the benefits?"
-borticus
yeah, and how i interpret that is "if we are going to allow cross-faction armadas, we will need to figure out how to allow fed toons on kdf starbases to buy elite disruptors and stuff'.
that would be a huge loss for the kdf. vote NO on cross-faction armadas.
"So if we somehow overcame the technical hurdles that would allow these two Fleets to belong to the same Armada together, would it be fair to ask the FED Fleet to help donate to the KDF projects, if they can't reap some of the benefits?"
-borticus
yeah, and how i interpret that is "if we are going to allow cross-faction armadas, we will need to figure out how to allow fed toons on kdf starbases to buy elite disruptors and stuff'.
that would be a huge loss for the kdf. vote NO on cross-faction armadas.
Why not just vote "No" on access to starbases of another faction, so we have all the other benefits it would mean for KDF fleets if Fed characters were to donate to their projects?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
While I'm only a junior member of Starfleet Dental, I would like to cordially and formally invite any small/inferior fleets needing hundreds of thousands of dil to be dumped into their holdings to swear fealty to one of the wealthiest, most charitable fleets in the game. No strings attached; just a simple oath and your fleet could be a rising star!
Hear, hear but does Starfleet Dental really plan to become Alpha fleet or do you guys "swear fealty" to Shutup Wesley? And what are the plans KDF side with Nerds of Prey?
I actually believe they aren't considering taking any fleets in their custody. I am sure they create 13 new fleets, all of them purely dedicated to them. Why help others, when you can help yourself
When they do this, they have 13 Dental fleets. No social place will be safe.
"So if we somehow overcame the technical hurdles that would allow these two Fleets to belong to the same Armada together, would it be fair to ask the FED Fleet to help donate to the KDF projects, if they can't reap some of the benefits?"
-borticus
yeah, and how i interpret that is "if we are going to allow cross-faction armadas, we will need to figure out how to allow fed toons on kdf starbases to buy elite disruptors and stuff'.
that would be a huge loss for the kdf. vote NO on cross-faction armadas.
Why not just vote "No" on access to starbases of another faction, so we have all the other benefits it would mean for KDF fleets if Fed characters were to donate to their projects?
tehbubbaloo seems to be overlooking the fact that KDF fleet members would likewise be able to buy elite phasers and stuff, although the reason why anyone would really want Fleet weapons is a bit obscure to me, since they all have the less-than-desirable [Dmg]x2 modifier ... and since everyone can get Romulan Plasma, which is, afaik, still the best weapon type in the game.
But yes, if that were an actually rational objection, then saying no to cross-faction starbase access would resolve that, whereas the overreaction only serves to maintain the status quo for all of us.
It seems to me that this panic is more related to the doughnut analogy above discussed by iconians and myself. Yes, the Feds have an enormous selection of goodies already. Yes, we need equity for all three factions (and yes, that includes full faction status for the RRF). But I'm getting a sense of hysterical reaction, rather than rational response. So in order to "protect" the KDF from Fed depredations, let's ignore the issues the RRF has? No, thank you.
Why not just vote "No" on access to starbases of another faction, so we have all the other benefits it would mean for KDF fleets if Fed characters were to donate to their projects?
because real kdf fleets dont need feddies contributing to the projects to level the fleet. thats the entire point. as it is now, if you join a t4-t5 kdf fleet you can be assured its a legitimate fleet with members logging in and whatnot.
tehbubbaloo seems to be overlooking the fact that KDF fleet members would likewise be able to buy elite phasers and stuff, although the reason why anyone would really want Fleet weapons is a bit obscure to me, since they all have the less-than-desirable [Dmg]x2 modifier ... and since everyone can get Romulan Plasma, which is, afaik, still the best weapon type in the game.
But yes, if that were an actually rational objection, then saying no to cross-faction starbase access would resolve that, whereas the overreaction only serves to maintain the status quo for all of us.
It seems to me that this panic is more related to the doughnut analogy above discussed by iconians and myself. Yes, the Feds have an enormous selection of goodies already. Yes, we need equity for all three factions (and yes, that includes full faction status for the RRF). But I'm getting a sense of hysterical reaction, rather than rational response. So in order to "protect" the KDF from Fed depredations, let's ignore the issues the RRF has? No, thank you.
kdf members shouldnt be able to buy elite phasers and the like.
what you want for 'the romulan faction' isnt any different than what feds want; the ability to play one faction while leveling the other. i dont see the benefit to the kdf at all. the only thing we get out of the deal is having our legitimate upper tier kdf-main fleets devalued by feddies' kdf proxy fleets, giving people even less of a reason to log in kdf-side. it would have been really easy for me to do the same thing, but i havent.
my question is this: why does anyone need to level a starbase on a faction they arent even playing?
tehbubbaloo seems to be overlooking the fact that KDF fleet members would likewise be able to buy elite phasers and stuff, although the reason why anyone would really want Fleet weapons is a bit obscure to me, since they all have the less-than-desirable [Dmg]x2 modifier ... and since everyone can get Romulan Plasma, which is, afaik, still the best weapon type in the game.
But yes, if that were an actually rational objection, then saying no to cross-faction starbase access would resolve that, whereas the overreaction only serves to maintain the status quo for all of us.
It seems to me that this panic is more related to the doughnut analogy above discussed by iconians and myself. Yes, the Feds have an enormous selection of goodies already. Yes, we need equity for all three factions (and yes, that includes full faction status for the RRF). But I'm getting a sense of hysterical reaction, rather than rational response. So in order to "protect" the KDF from Fed depredations, let's ignore the issues the RRF has? No, thank you.
kdf members shouldnt be able to buy elite phasers and the like.
what you want for 'the romulan faction' isnt any different than what feds want; the ability to play one faction while leveling the other. i dont see the benefit to the kdf at all. the only thing we get out of the deal is having our legitimate upper tier kdf-main fleets devalued by feddies' kdf proxy fleets, giving people even less of a reason to log in kdf-side. it would have been really easy for me to do the same thing, but i havent.
my question is this: why does anyone need to level a starbase on a faction they arent even playing?
First, why do you assume that we don't play both alliances? Our Fed-allied main fleet was created later, as I've already stated, which is why it is a lower fleet level than our KDF-allied main fleet.
But if it's really such a threat to the KDF, then, as I suggested above, they could make cross-faction armadas possible only for fleets whose leaders are RRF. As it stands, we have to go to someone's warbird to even have cross-faction meetings of our fleets. I'm thinking that there will be some sort of social hub for each armada, so that would resolve the "Where do we go to have our next meeting?" issue.
But if it's really such a threat to the KDF, then, as I suggested above, they could make cross-faction armadas possible only for fleets whose leaders are RRF. As it stands, we have to go to someone's warbird to even have cross-faction meetings of our fleets. I'm thinking that there will be some sort of social hub for each armada, so that would resolve the "Where do we go to have our next meeting?" issue.
it should be obvious that nearly every fleet in sto likely has a romulan toon somewhere in the leadership rank already. if not now, they surely would if your proposal went live.
But if it's really such a threat to the KDF, then, as I suggested above, they could make cross-faction armadas possible only for fleets whose leaders are RRF. As it stands, we have to go to someone's warbird to even have cross-faction meetings of our fleets. I'm thinking that there will be some sort of social hub for each armada, so that would resolve the "Where do we go to have our next meeting?" issue.
it should be obvious that nearly every fleet in sto likely has a romulan toon somewhere in the leadership rank already. if not now, they surely would if your proposal went live.
Until we get more information, how will the Armada concept affect map invites for gear and temp fleet invites for ships? Will we have cross-fleet stores access as part of joining an armada?
Maybe those kind of "permissions" will be added as well?
It may not happen, but would be nice to cut out the middle man if it does. Of course, fleets would have a permission for those things if it does.
Borticus also answered a similar question on Reddit:
Borticus-Cryptic Kurland here!
"We are not altering store functionality at this time."
Why not just vote "No" on access to starbases of another faction, so we have all the other benefits it would mean for KDF fleets if Fed characters were to donate to their projects?
because real kdf fleets dont need feddies contributing to the projects to level the fleet. thats the entire point. as it is now, if you join a t4-t5 kdf fleet you can be assured its a legitimate fleet with members logging in and whatnot.
So are you actually just opposed to people having small fleets on the KDF?
I think anything that helps the popularity of the KDF - and readily available, high leveled fleets will increase the popularity of the KDF - will increase the amount of active KDF characters and provides more reasons for Cryptic to support the KDF. Which benefits even the big KDF Fleets.
what you want for 'the romulan faction' isnt any different than what feds want; the ability to play one faction while leveling the other. i dont see the benefit to the kdf at all. the only thing we get out of the deal is having our legitimate upper tier kdf-main fleets devalued by feddies' kdf proxy fleets, giving people even less of a reason to log in kdf-side. it would have been really easy for me to do the same thing, but i havent.
my question is this: why does anyone need to level a starbase on a faction they arent even playing?
Who needs a KDF Tier 5 Starbase if he isn't even playing KDF anyway? The answer is: No one.
Why bother playing your KDF character if your Fed character already has access to all the cool fleet stuff?
If the so called "proxy" fleets would have more powerful starbases, the players actually would have more reasons to play this side, and also buy KDF-specific stuff.
And that is the point where it's the benefit of all the KDF players, because it means Cryptic has a business reason to provide more support to the KDF.
You know the status quo with KDF popularity ,player counts and fleet sizes. Do you really believe that the difficulties of leveling a KDF fleet has so far helped people to play more KDF? I don't think so. Things have been as they are for a very long time now - and I haven't heard of any huge population shifts to the KDF.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
What I don’t understand is the concept of giving the larger alpha fleets a XP bonus or boost while the smaller gamma ones get a Dil bonus.
I mean Alpha fleets already maxed out their holdings and don’t need XP while the “nobody donates dil” problem is a general one. Nobody of a small group donating it is the same as nobody of a large group donating it.
It is not a Dilithium bonus....it is a Dilithium discount. Therefore, you answered your own question here.
Why wouldn't a Gamma or Beta fleet with incomplete Fleet holdings want a dilithium discount? "Nobody donates dilithium".
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
So are you actually just opposed to people having small fleets on the KDF?
not at all. i have no problem with kdf fleets at all. in fact, i spend a portion of every day helping smaller kdf fleets by giving them access to our fleet stores, putting their alts on our roster so they can invite their fleetmates to the stores and give the t5 shipyard access, we facilitate fleetmark/dil donations to smaller fleets, and so on.
but heres the rub: those are kdf fleets. they arent people logged in fed-side, grinding their marks fed-side and donating to a kdf fleet via some traitorous ui.
I think anything that helps the popularity of the KDF - and readily available, high leveled fleets will increase the popularity of the KDF - will increase the amount of active KDF characters and provides more reasons for Cryptic to support the KDF. Which benefits even the big KDF Fleets.
we already have readily-available high-level kdf fleets. the faction does not need a fed subsidy so much as the inactive fed proxy fleets do.
what you want for 'the romulan faction' isnt any different than what feds want; the ability to play one faction while leveling the other. i dont see the benefit to the kdf at all. the only thing we get out of the deal is having our legitimate upper tier kdf-main fleets devalued by feddies' kdf proxy fleets, giving people even less of a reason to log in kdf-side. it would have been really easy for me to do the same thing, but i havent.
my question is this: why does anyone need to level a starbase on a faction they arent even playing?
Who needs a KDF Tier 5 Starbase if he isn't even playing KDF anyway? The answer is: No one.
Why bother playing your KDF character if your Fed character already has access to all the cool fleet stuff?
If the so called "proxy" fleets would have more powerful starbases, the players actually would have more reasons to play this side, and also buy KDF-specific stuff.
And that is the point where it's the benefit of all the KDF players, because it means Cryptic has a business reason to provide more support to the KDF.
You know the status quo with KDF popularity ,player counts and fleet sizes. Do you really believe that the difficulties of leveling a KDF fleet has so far helped people to play more KDF? I don't think so. Things have been as they are for a very long time now - and I haven't heard of any huge population shifts to the KDF.
fed-mains arent going to start spending their time on the kdf simply because they have a kdf fleet donated to them by the feds. the starbase isnt the limiting factor today. its the huge grind associated with leveling an alt. rep, r&d, specialisations, etc are the disincentive, not the starbase. cross-faction armadas would do nothing to improve that.
fed-mains arent going to start spending their time on the kdf simply because they have a kdf fleet donated to them by the feds. the starbase isnt the limiting factor today. its the huge grind associated with leveling an alt. rep, r&d, specialisations, etc are the disincentive, not the starbase. cross-faction armadas would do nothing to improve that.
But they would - part of the system is boosting skill point gain rates, isn't it?
Levelling a character is the first hurdle. But then finding out that certain things that are trivially easy to do on your fully developed fleet aren't avaialable on the other, and won't be for a long time, is another. And can mean that when you're at level 60 or so, you just stop bothering with the character, since that other hurdle just seems too big.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I've got to echo what several other players have already posted, and that's the fact that the option for cross-faction fleets is very much needed.
Obviously, there's a huge benefit for Romulan fleets. We don't have our own fleet holdings - we have to choose either KDF or Fed. This has always been kind of a strange thing. But if Romulan fleets could join an armada, that would be a huge thing. It's not like it would be out of line with the game's lore anyways. The Republic has allied with both the Feds and the KDF, so it makes perfect sense to have access to both sides. And from a gameplay perspective, this would make managing Romulan fleets so much easier.
Also, of course there'd be a benefit to 'factionless' fleets that have dedicated Fed and KDF wings. Alliances that cross the faction line are already a thing, so any implementation of a fleet grouping system should be taking this into consideration. This wouldn't require that all fleets are now cross-faction - just those who would choose to build their armada this way.
I don't know how that would translate into accessing cross-faction gear... I'd think that'd be a no. But just being able to have the KDF and Fed wings of fleets be able to chill in the same spot for once would be great. Plus armada-wide messaging options, allowing the leaders to lead both sides at the same time, and other fleet-management benefits.
What I don’t understand is the concept of giving the larger alpha fleets a XP bonus or boost while the smaller gamma ones get a Dil bonus.
I mean Alpha fleets already maxed out their holdings and don’t need XP while the “nobody donates dil” problem is a general one. Nobody of a small group donating it is the same as nobody of a large group donating it.
It is not a Dilithium bonus....it is a Dilithium discount. Therefore, you answered your own question here.
Why wouldn't a Gamma or Beta fleet with incomplete Fleet holdings want a dilithium discount? "Nobody donates dilithium".
I can gree with you there but, why would a maxed out fleet want xp? Or, maybe I need to reread the description!
What I don’t understand is the concept of giving the larger alpha fleets a XP bonus or boost while the smaller gamma ones get a Dil bonus.
I mean Alpha fleets already maxed out their holdings and don’t need XP while the “nobody donates dil” problem is a general one. Nobody of a small group donating it is the same as nobody of a large group donating it.
It is not a Dilithium bonus....it is a Dilithium discount. Therefore, you answered your own question here.
Why wouldn't a Gamma or Beta fleet with incomplete Fleet holdings want a dilithium discount? "Nobody donates dilithium".
I can gree with you there but, why would a maxed out fleet want xp? Or, maybe I need to reread the description!
its bonus spec point xp for the members of the fleet
Looks more like regular xp used for projects and boffs! But, I like what you said better!
Perhaps Cryptic could make cross-faction Armadas feasible with new holdings designed to accept contributions from all factions. One holding could be a FED-KDF Embassy located on Earth and Qo'nos (contributions build both simultaneously), another could be (finally) a Romulan Starbase. Both maps would be cross-faction, so Armadas could actually meet and interact.
Additionally, if possible, I think it might be a good idea to make the Romulan Embassy, Spire, and Dilithium Mine maps cross-faction as well, while leaving the FED and KDF Starbase maps and equipment faction specific.
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Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
I see from the feedback that small fleets can block the massive marks dump that would have ensued. The big question for me is still can the smaller fleet buy from the larger's stores without an invite. If not then there is little point to this whole thing from my perspective. The easy things are still easy to fill and the hard still hard. I somehow doubt that the large fleets will begin dumping millions of dilithium to help small fleets in their armadas, nor 1000's of doffs.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I see from the feedback that small fleets can block the massive marks dump that would have ensued. The big question for me is still can the smaller fleet buy from the larger's stores without an invite. If not then there is little point to this whole thing from my perspective. The easy things are still easy to fill and the hard still hard. I somehow doubt that the large fleets will begin dumping millions of dilithium to help small fleets in their armadas, nor 1000's of doffs.
Sounds like the smaller fleets might want to have their cake and eat it too. The large fleets are looking for Mark dumps, isn't that part of the purpose? If smaller fleets block this and still want the gear of the larger fleet; everyone is in the same boat as before. The smaller fleets can't just expect for large fleets to dump the hardest items and not expect something in return.
However, this all sounds like it will be the responsibility of each armada to handle their own way. I'm glad the system to block and leave are in place. We've already begun talks with our allied fleets on how we will handle different situations and will continue talks and formulations until all the details are out.
Fleet Admiral Thomas Winston James a.k.a. The Grayfox Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Comments
Hen or egg problem from the player side now?
"I want to play KDF side, but it's so hard to get a good fleet with a decent starbase there. I rather keep playing Fed."
"Oh, no one wants to play KDF side and join a fleet. It's hard to build up your fleet like that."
No one will build up KDF fleets just for the sake of its existence. People want to build up a KDF fleet so they can play their character with access to all the cool toys there.
If they end up not doing it there - at least the players that do play KDF now have a fully developed fleet, and don't have to hope that some day a miracle happens and people randomly decide to play KDF en masse. Sudden change in player behaviour without making any changes to the game is not that likely.
I mean Alpha fleets already maxed out their holdings and don’t need XP while the “nobody donates dil” problem is a general one. Nobody of a small group donating it is the same as nobody of a large group donating it.
In my opinion a small Gamma fleet would profit more from XP boosts while Alpha fleets which only run provision projects that cost dil anyway would profit from any dil discount most.
Sorry I play for 3 years in all different kind of fleet constellations from tier 1-5, from a roster of 10 to a roster of 500. Those fleet leaders in such an alliance who accept external mark donations will find their own fleet member’s credits to be depleted soon and without fleet credits where are the thousands over thousands of doffs are supposed to come from? The academy? The exchange? As if anybody would bother if you look at the demands of tier 4 XP projects. Each project needs 154 of them and you look at 450 of such projects or only more Dil intense stuff as an alternative.
I don’t know, I just see the same contribution problems we have in this game just put on a larger scale with this.
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Maybe those kind of "permissions" will be added as well?
It may not happen, but would be nice to cut out the middle man if it does. Of course, fleets would have a permission for those things if it does.
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i understand this.
there are other romulan fleets just like yourself. this is probably an ideal time to network, and i think that is the real solution; to find more like-minded fleets in both factions.
a non solution is to allow cross-faction fleets. you think that would benefit romulans, but it actually only serves feddies, and picks the bones of the kdf. because under that system, feddie fleets woudnt even have to log in kdf to level their fleets. the defining characteristic of an active kdf fleet would be given as a reward to feds for doing... nothing. the idea of feddies playing isa and cca all day and getting a t6 kdf starbase out of the deal turns my stomach.
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Hear, hear but does Starfleet Dental really plan to become Alpha fleet or do you guys "swear fealty" to Shutup Wesley? And what are the plans KDF side with Nerds of Prey?
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I'm not sure how it would serve FedBrats, in light of this:
(emphasis added)
And as I told you previously, our first and main fleet is KDF-allied (I'm sure you've encountered some of us from time to time; I've encountered some of your fleet members). Our main KDF-allied fleet is 7 levels higher than our main Fed-allied fleet, which was admittedly created later, but I trust you see the point. The majority of the membership of all of our fleets is RRF, not Fed, and not KDF, although we have some Feds and some KDF among us. We generally consider them (with rare exceptions in the case of "liaisons") to have given up their citizenship in UFP or KE in order to serve in a foreign military (thus I have suggested, as another means of facilitating making the RRF into a full faction, the idea that species should not be faction-bound, but should be considered by the game mechanics to be citizens of whatever power has their fleet leader's allegiance, which should then allow cross-alliance teaming for RRF personnel, and their fleet members who were formerly citizens of the KE or UFP -- and believe me, I understand that Orions are one of the best things the KE has going for them, and have two Orions myself, but I think my proposed solution of faction-unbound species is more "realistic" and not as likely to harm the KDF as you might think).
But if it's really such a threat to the KDF, then, as I suggested above, they could make cross-faction armadas possible only for fleets whose leaders are RRF. As it stands, we have to go to someone's warbird to even have cross-faction meetings of our fleets. I'm thinking that there will be some sort of social hub for each armada, so that would resolve the "Where do we go to have our next meeting?" issue.
Two words: Faction Embassies.
A new Fleet Project should allow Federation Fleets to be given access to the Federation Embassy on Qo'noS and of course Klingon Fleets would get access to the Klingon Embassy on Earth. This way we all get another Fleet Project to play with and you don't have to worry about Fleet Starbases. Let the Starbases stay as they are and unique Klingon goodies for Starfleet characters as well as unique Starfleet goodies for Klingon characters can be found on each Embassy.
I know we're getting a Krenim Fleet Project so this doesn't need to happen anytime soon. But it could be new project in the future.
-borticus
yeah, and how i interpret that is "if we are going to allow cross-faction armadas, we will need to figure out how to allow fed toons on kdf starbases to buy elite disruptors and stuff'.
that would be a huge loss for the kdf. vote NO on cross-faction armadas.
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I actually believe they aren't considering taking any fleets in their custody. I am sure they create 13 new fleets, all of them purely dedicated to them. Why help others, when you can help yourself
When they do this, they have 13 Dental fleets. No social place will be safe.
tehbubbaloo seems to be overlooking the fact that KDF fleet members would likewise be able to buy elite phasers and stuff, although the reason why anyone would really want Fleet weapons is a bit obscure to me, since they all have the less-than-desirable [Dmg]x2 modifier ... and since everyone can get Romulan Plasma, which is, afaik, still the best weapon type in the game.
But yes, if that were an actually rational objection, then saying no to cross-faction starbase access would resolve that, whereas the overreaction only serves to maintain the status quo for all of us.
It seems to me that this panic is more related to the doughnut analogy above discussed by iconians and myself. Yes, the Feds have an enormous selection of goodies already. Yes, we need equity for all three factions (and yes, that includes full faction status for the RRF). But I'm getting a sense of hysterical reaction, rather than rational response. So in order to "protect" the KDF from Fed depredations, let's ignore the issues the RRF has? No, thank you.
kdf members shouldnt be able to buy elite phasers and the like.
what you want for 'the romulan faction' isnt any different than what feds want; the ability to play one faction while leveling the other. i dont see the benefit to the kdf at all. the only thing we get out of the deal is having our legitimate upper tier kdf-main fleets devalued by feddies' kdf proxy fleets, giving people even less of a reason to log in kdf-side. it would have been really easy for me to do the same thing, but i havent.
my question is this: why does anyone need to level a starbase on a faction they arent even playing?
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First, why do you assume that we don't play both alliances? Our Fed-allied main fleet was created later, as I've already stated, which is why it is a lower fleet level than our KDF-allied main fleet.
Second, try responding to this:
it should be obvious that nearly every fleet in sto likely has a romulan toon somewhere in the leadership rank already. if not now, they surely would if your proposal went live.
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"The leadership rank" =/= The Fleet Leader.
Borticus also answered a similar question on Reddit:
Borticus-Cryptic Kurland here!
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This is the thread on Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/3bvw0a/mmorpg_interview_with_captain_geko_on_season_105/
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I think anything that helps the popularity of the KDF - and readily available, high leveled fleets will increase the popularity of the KDF - will increase the amount of active KDF characters and provides more reasons for Cryptic to support the KDF. Which benefits even the big KDF Fleets.
Who needs a KDF Tier 5 Starbase if he isn't even playing KDF anyway? The answer is: No one.
Why bother playing your KDF character if your Fed character already has access to all the cool fleet stuff?
If the so called "proxy" fleets would have more powerful starbases, the players actually would have more reasons to play this side, and also buy KDF-specific stuff.
And that is the point where it's the benefit of all the KDF players, because it means Cryptic has a business reason to provide more support to the KDF.
You know the status quo with KDF popularity ,player counts and fleet sizes. Do you really believe that the difficulties of leveling a KDF fleet has so far helped people to play more KDF? I don't think so. Things have been as they are for a very long time now - and I haven't heard of any huge population shifts to the KDF.
It is not a Dilithium bonus....it is a Dilithium discount. Therefore, you answered your own question here.
Why wouldn't a Gamma or Beta fleet with incomplete Fleet holdings want a dilithium discount? "Nobody donates dilithium".
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but heres the rub: those are kdf fleets. they arent people logged in fed-side, grinding their marks fed-side and donating to a kdf fleet via some traitorous ui.
we already have readily-available high-level kdf fleets. the faction does not need a fed subsidy so much as the inactive fed proxy fleets do.
fed-mains arent going to start spending their time on the kdf simply because they have a kdf fleet donated to them by the feds. the starbase isnt the limiting factor today. its the huge grind associated with leveling an alt. rep, r&d, specialisations, etc are the disincentive, not the starbase. cross-faction armadas would do nothing to improve that.
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Levelling a character is the first hurdle. But then finding out that certain things that are trivially easy to do on your fully developed fleet aren't avaialable on the other, and won't be for a long time, is another. And can mean that when you're at level 60 or so, you just stop bothering with the character, since that other hurdle just seems too big.
and the number of people that dont know they can access our holdings on the NoP channel are few and far between.
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Obviously, there's a huge benefit for Romulan fleets. We don't have our own fleet holdings - we have to choose either KDF or Fed. This has always been kind of a strange thing. But if Romulan fleets could join an armada, that would be a huge thing. It's not like it would be out of line with the game's lore anyways. The Republic has allied with both the Feds and the KDF, so it makes perfect sense to have access to both sides. And from a gameplay perspective, this would make managing Romulan fleets so much easier.
Also, of course there'd be a benefit to 'factionless' fleets that have dedicated Fed and KDF wings. Alliances that cross the faction line are already a thing, so any implementation of a fleet grouping system should be taking this into consideration. This wouldn't require that all fleets are now cross-faction - just those who would choose to build their armada this way.
I don't know how that would translate into accessing cross-faction gear... I'd think that'd be a no. But just being able to have the KDF and Fed wings of fleets be able to chill in the same spot for once would be great. Plus armada-wide messaging options, allowing the leaders to lead both sides at the same time, and other fleet-management benefits.
I can gree with you there but, why would a maxed out fleet want xp? Or, maybe I need to reread the description!
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Looks more like regular xp used for projects and boffs! But, I like what you said better!
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Additionally, if possible, I think it might be a good idea to make the Romulan Embassy, Spire, and Dilithium Mine maps cross-faction as well, while leaving the FED and KDF Starbase maps and equipment faction specific.
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http://perfectworld.vanillaforums.com/discussion/1193315/should-the-coming-armada-system-allow-cross-faction-groupings-of-fleets
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Leveling to 60 and specialization points for their membership.
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Sounds like the smaller fleets might want to have their cake and eat it too. The large fleets are looking for Mark dumps, isn't that part of the purpose? If smaller fleets block this and still want the gear of the larger fleet; everyone is in the same boat as before. The smaller fleets can't just expect for large fleets to dump the hardest items and not expect something in return.
However, this all sounds like it will be the responsibility of each armada to handle their own way. I'm glad the system to block and leave are in place. We've already begun talks with our allied fleets on how we will handle different situations and will continue talks and formulations until all the details are out.
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